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What would you say about contraction in the NBA?

As we all witnessed with the move of the Seattle SuperSonics to Oklahoma City, no team in the NBA is safe. With the lockout talk has come renewed talk, at least from the media, about contracting a few select NBA teams. When the "contraction" word is brought up around NBA fans - fingers start pointing in every direction. So, I reached out to our extensive family at SB Nation to find out what our writers think about the teams they cover possibly being contracted. Let's find out what they had to say ...

Star-divide

 

 

Atlanta Hawks:

Jason Walker from Peachtree HoopsContract the Hawks? Why not just saddle a loyal fan base (and bloggers) with 60+ million in contracts for six guys, including a widely criticized max contract for their Five Time All-Star (patent pending), and never, ever allow the team to get out of the second round of the playoffs.... ever. All while always being subjected as a national punchline at any opportunity.

The Hawks have never won the lottery, and the last #1 overall pick was wined and dined at McDonald's to try and convince him not to use his 745 inch vertical to jump to the ABA (former Nugget David Thompson). It didn't work.

In fact, the most famous draft pick in the last ten years was the guy that wasn't picked (Chris Paul) rather than the guy who was (Marvin Williams).

At least when Seattle lost their team to OKC they had a title to soothe their pain ... Atlanta fans have to look back to St. Louis for a title that is most certainly not theirs.

Heck, even Atlanta's best player - Dominique Wilkins - didn't make the NBA's all-time top 50 when he was in the top 10 all time scoring and never being tied to anything negative on or off the court, except being a Hawk.

Aw shoot ... go ahead, drop the Hawks. How could it hurt worse?

Nate's take: Sure the Hawks don't ever seem to go very far, but could we live in an NBA world without the Hawks. Along with plenty of fans, our Andrew Feinstein would probably lose his mind if Dominique Wilkins' team was no longer around. The Hawks are safe.

 

Boston Celtics:

Jeff Clark from CelticsBlog: Because we're the Celtics.

Nate's take: Well said Jeff, well said. But enough with all this "chowda" love already, ESPN already took it too far - did y'all see this junk? The Celtics, like the Bulls, are what makes the NBA the NBA.

 

Charlotte Bobcats:

Ben Swanson from Rufus on FireWhen it comes to arguing that the Bobcats should be contracted, what some gloss over is that contracting or even just moving the team would come with huge financial implications for the NBA. As laid out in the team's contract with the city, should there be a breach in the contract in which the team does not play its home games in Charlotte (whether via relocation or otherwise), the city has a few options, most notably of which include seeking injunction or if the city cannot obtain "injunctive relief," they can recover liquidated damages, which until 2015 is $150,000,000.

The Charlotte Hornets have proven there is a market for NBA basketball evidenced by selling out 364 consecutive NBA games, leading the league in attendance for each of their first seven seasons (1988-1995) - during Michael Jordan's prime, no less. Detractors argue Charlotte can't support an NBA team, pointing to the team's subpar attendance numbers but the truth of the matter is that Charlotte can't support an extremely mismanaged team. The Bobcats have drafted poorly and taken on bloated contracts in the past, but that looks to be changing as understanding the need to rebuild, they traded away Gerald Wallace to help get the young talent of Bismack Biyombo and drafting the talented Kemba Walker. They hired Rich Cho, which showed that MJ was willing to go outside his connections to get the top front office talent. As they move towards trying to build a successful team around young talent and focusing on the future, they've also become better marketed, snatching up more sponsors than ever before. With building a young team that makes smarter decisions in the front office, the city will come around.

Nate's take: I love, absolutely love, Ben's passion for the Bobcats. That said, I would not miss the Bobcats one bit. There is no history there and when the Nuggets play the Bobcats there just isn't a lot of excitement. When I think of either Carolina I just think of the Tar Heels, not really the NBA. But if the team proves, attendance wise and revenue wise, then I'm willing to let the franchise stick around and build some tradition.

 

Chicago Bulls

The Blog a Bull crew probably couldn't stop laughing at my request to submit a serious response. Aw, to be a Bulls fan ... all the titles and memories and the future looks bright with Derrick Rose.

Nate's take: Obviously the Bulls dominated the 1990's and the league can't get rid of such a large market team and the team that had the best player on the planet on it. The Bulls are an NBA mainstay. 

 

Cleveland Cavaliers:

Conrad Kaczmarek from Fear the SwordThe NBA should not contract the Cavaliers because Cleveland has been right at the top of the league in attendance for the past decade. Of course, most of this was because they were perennial championship contenders and had the best player in the league. However, the Cavaliers ranked 3rd in the league in attendance last season despite being really really awful. The game against the Clippers that snapped the 26-game losing streak was a near sell-out and was deafeningly loud as the team closed out the victory. The main argument against the Cavaliers will be that many of the tickets were sold before "The Decision", thus skewing the numbers.

If the evaluation for contraction were to occur right now, you simply cannot assume that the Cleveland is unable to support an NBA team without a winning team. The evidence against the Cavaliers is not recent enough to make such a claim. If the lack of competitiveness is the next few years leads to a significant dip in fan support, then it would make sense to look further into the issue. For now, however, the Cavaliers have shown that the city is certainly able to support the team and the franchise has a dedicated owner in place. Dan Gilbert is willing to spend the money to put together a good basketball team and when he has one, the fans in Cleveland pack the Q to full capacity. In my opinion, that is exact profile that the NBA should be looking for in a small market team.

Nate's take: LeBron is gone, time to fold up shop ... joking, joking! Their attendance speaks for itself and how could we live in an NBA world where Craig Ehlo references would become lost and forgotten? I am very glad the Cavs went back to more of a retro looking uniform, I was not a fan of those wacky ones they wore with James aboard. 

 

Dallas Mavericks:

LJRotter from Mavs MoneyballThe league can't get rid of the Mavericks because once you win the NBA Finals, you become part of a secret, untouchable group of teams that, no matter how terrible they were or will be, remain immune to contraction. I'm pretty sure that's written down somewhere. Also they make a lot of money and the world fears the wrath of Mark Cuban.

Nate's take: The Mavs went from a laughing stock to laughing all the way to the bank. The team should maybe think about a name chance to Dallas Cubans or something. Their flamboyant owner, no matter what you think of him, really did what we all want to see out of our owners ... dumping big dollars into the team, building, whatever needs it in order to win a title. Mission Accomplished. The Mavs are here to stay.

 

Denver Nuggets

Nate Timmons from right here, Denver Stiffs: The Nuggets survived the defunct American Basketball Association - whether they went behind other ABA owners' backs in order to do so is another story - and they should survive any contraction talk as well. The 1994 playoff series win against the Sonics and near upset against the Jazz will be remembered by hoops historians forever. The end of the 1990s were not so kind to the Nuggets, but they are back on the NBA map and re-tooling the squad as we speak. 

Nate's take: Nate has a take on his own take? You betcha! The Nuggets certainly are not in the same realm as the Celtics, Lakers, Knicks, and Bulls as far as widespread popularity (eyes on the Nuggs grew with Carmelo Anthony, like him or not), but there is plenty of historical significance in regards to the team and if they were no longer around there would be a giant hole in the NBA books. Seeing the Sonics disappear scares the crap out of me, but the city of Denver is behind the team and the Pepsi Center is still a very fine building. The Nuggets are safe, for now. 

 

Detroit Pistons:

Mike Payne from Detroit Bad BoysWould the NBA even consider dropping the Pistons in a league contraction? Let me take my homer glasses off for a moment in favor of objectivity. I would hope that the league would consider history, revenue and the local market when discussing a contraction. If they talk about wins and losses, Detroit has been on the short end of the stick lately. But despite the team's gross mismanagement over the last several years, its history, revenue and market remain stronger than all but a handful of NBA franchises. 

The Pistons have history - they're one of 16 active franchises to win a championship, and one of a few that have done so three or more times. They've got the revenue potential as well, having been counted the 4th most valuable franchise in the league right before Joe Dumars went all doppleganger on us. After the Pistons record tanked and the economy followed suit, their value plummeted before Tome Gores snatched up the franchise. While the market in Detroit may be depressed, it remains one of the nations largest - with over 5 million residents in the combined statistical area in metropolitan Detroit.

This franchise holds the league record for consecutive sell-outs. We're used to filling stadiums and winning games in Detroit. Once the ship is righted and the winning resumes, the revenue will once again flow like water. Would the NBA ever consider shutting down this spigot? Not in this lifetime. The auto industry was once deemed to big to fail, and look at it now. The NBA would be wise to place a few chips on the future of the once and future king of the rust belt, the Detroit Pistons.

Nate's take: Mike makes some great points above and he was perhaps my favorite emailer. We exchanged some notes about the Nuggets and Pistons and talked about Joe Dumars helping out the Nuggets quite a bit recently (passing on Melo, dealing Denver Chauncey Billups and Arron Afflalo (separate deals)). It would be awful to see the Pistons get disbanded and I don't think it could ever happen. Their fans are passionate and the team is also rich in NBA history with the Bad Boys teams that our Scott Hastings was a part of. 

 

Golden State Warriors:

Nate Parham and the folks at Golden State Of Mind:  The only teams that should merit discussion are small market teams with weak fanbases. We are a big media market with a rabid fanbase. 

But just for the record: #11, 11, 9, 6, 14, 10 - the Warriors' NBA
 attendance ranking the last six seasons. 'Nuff said.


Nate's take: I have to admit, I love watching Monta Ellis play basketball. I'm glad he's not a Denver Nugget, but he sure is fun to watch - kid can really fill it up. Watching that Warriors vs. Mavericks playoff series was one of my fondest basketball memories, that was a great series for the League (not so much for the Mavs, and before Dallas fans feel too bad - just remember I saw my Broncos lose to the Jaguars in 1996). The Warriors have been around for what seems like forever and like Mr. Parham points out ... their fans are nuts for their team. Golden State is safe. 

 

Houston Rockets:

From The Dream Shake crewKeep the Rockets. They've got a great owner whose financial situation probably lends him towards a non-lockout stance. They had two championships in the 1990's that nobody seems to remember. And if you contract Houston, you kill off the Center Tradition. Hakeem, Yao, Hasheem, etc. 

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THABEET WILL BECOME UNLESS YOU LET IT HAPPEN.

Nate's take: The Dream Shake crew took some jabs about their championships from the fellow bloggers, but I loved those Houston teams. They were great and really fun to use on my favorite hoops game from the original Playstation: Slam 'N' Jam '96! This game was mirrored after the arcade game Run 'N' Gun, where I just dominated people when I was a kid at Boardwalk USA (greatest childhood place ever!). They didn't use real names for the players, but I knew who they were ... Kenny Smith (The Jet) was the man, so was Vernon Maxwell. Anyway, the Rockets are NBA legacy and they must stay. Houston is a big market and they will stick around. 

 

Indiana Pacers

Tom Lewis from Indy CornrowsThe Pacers are poised to be a trending topic among NBA teams and should not be considered for contraction. Favorable factors are finally aligning properly for the Pacers to emerge from the past few years of pathetic play that turned a fan base passive and let them focus on the football team across town. Not only did a spirited playoff appearance last year excite fans and introduce many to young players like Paul George, Darren Collison and Roy Hibbert, but with Peyton Manning sidelined and the Indianapolis Colts flat lining, those fans and many others in the area are already begging for an alternative to avert their eyes from the football follies taking place. The Pacers took painful steps to improve their salary cap situation and open up roster spots to build around a young core of players worth watching and it just so happens, the once-boisterous fan base is primed and ready to take a look.

Nate's take: I hated the movie Hoosiers, but Indiana needs professional basketball. The Pacers are starting to come together and the franchise is moving in the right direction again. Another ABA team that has too much history to throw away. The Pacers are here to stay.

 

Los Angeles Clippers:

Steve Perrin from Clips NationLet's look at the basic question of contraction: the premise would be, that for the good of the league, some number of teams would have to go away, because there just isn't enough interest, aren't enough big markets, isn't enough talent (check all that apply). So, for the sake of argument, let's peg the number at two teams contracted. OK, now which two, and how do you decide? One is easy - the Hornets are owned by the league, New Orleans is one of the smallest markets, bye-bye Hornets, sorry Rohan. What about the second one?

Do you lose the smallest market (stop the Jazz music)? The least profitable team (make the Magic disappear)? The team with the lowest valuation (the Bucks stop here)? The worst run team (show the Wolves to the door)?

The real problem is that the you can never get 28 owners to decide on one of their own to vote off the island. Because that precedent is scary to all of them, and they don't want anything even remotely similar to ever happen to them.

If you could do it, the real way would be to get rid of the worst owner. Because who suffers in contraction? The fans of the team certainly suffer, but David Stern and the other owners don't want to be the judges in that particular beauty contest. The players suffer in losing 1/15th of the NBA jobs available, but the players of the contracted team don't suffer any more than any other player really - they go into an expansion draft and the ones good enough end up somewhere else, no different than if they were traded or signed as a free agent. The real loser in this deal is the owner - kicked out of one of the most exclusive clubs in the world, a club with only 29 members.

So who do you contract? The Clippers of course. If the owners are going to turn on one of their own, it would be Donald Sterling, who frankly has done much to deserve expulsion from the league over the years. But they won't. Not when the Clippers are profitable and have been for a decade. Not when the Clippers are in the second biggest market in the country. Not when the Clippers currently have the brightest young star in the league playing in that market.

The real answer? Force Sterling out, contract the Kings, give the Maloofs right of first refusal on buying the Clippers. The Kings already have one foot out the door in Sacramento, so that fan base is already screwed. As for the Maloofs, they can't afford the Clippers, but it allows the league to contract the Kings without throwing the Maloofs under the bus quite so directly.

By the way, I actually think contraction is a terrible idea. Content is king, and why would you make a move in 2011 that reduces your content by 7%?

Nate's take: I got to meet Steve when we were in Las Vegas for the SB Nation conference. He's one of those guys who you could just talk sports with for hours and he does an excellent job on his site. He brings up some great points above and takes a serious look at his own team. I actually like his idea quite a bit, sorry Kings fans, and it makes a lot of sense if things don't work out in Sacramento. It would be awful to lose an NBA team like the Kings, but it would also be nice to get rid of Sterling. 

 

Los Angeles Lakers

C.A. Clark from Silver Screen and RollThe NBA should contract the Lakers. No joke, the reason why contraction is even a necessary topic is because teams like the Lakers exist, driving up costs (in salary, in arenas, etc.) for the rest of the league without any of the little guys experience the corresponding benefits in revenue. So if you want a world to exist where we don't have to worry about whether or not Charlotte or New Orleans should be contracted, the Lakers shouldn't exist in that world.
 
But the real world doesn't work that way. You don't punish success because it would make all the failures (or more moderate successes) look better and more viable by comparison. And the Lakers are the most successful franchise in the league (if not by championships, then by every other conceivable metric).

Nate's take: Mr. Clark is another guy who we got to meet in Vegas, another basketball head who you could talk hoops with for forever. Could you imagine the NBA tossing the Lakers out? This post got me thinking about a radical idea. What if the NBA split the league up into market sized franchises and almost re-created the ABA and NBA? You have the large markets in one league and smaller markets in another. If they honestly can't compete on a level playing field then let's stop pretending and try something different. Would it be just awful to watch two leagues that don't play each other? Would the champs play the champs for some sort of title? Can this lockout end already?

 

Memphis Grizzlies:

TLorenzo from Straight Outta VancouverLet's be honest, we all had the Grizzlies pegged as one of the teams most likely to be contracted/moved/locked in David Stern's basement heading into the 2010-11 season. Then, in true reality show fashion, they won themselves immunity with their "epic" playoff run. For the first time in their lives they were the prettiest girl at the party, and that's enough to carry the Griz over the next few seasons. That and the fact that you wouldn't want to upset Zach Randolph and Tony Allen, would you?

Nate's take: The 1994 Nuggets gained some fans during their playoff run against the Sonics and Jazz. The 2007 Warriors did the same thing when they upset the Mavs. The 2011 Grizzlies followed that path and now the NBA world is waiting to see what they'll do for an encore. That encore could make the difference in if the team is kept in Memphis or if they are moved/contracted. Can one small playoff run make up what was dwindling attendance and attention? I hope so, reporters love the food in Memphis. 

 

Miami Heat:

David Dwork from Peninsula is MightierAs badly as some people around the NBA might want it to happen, I don’t think its possible that the league would ever dream of contracting the Miami Heat.  We could be talking apparel sales, television contracts, whatever ways that David Stern and his office are able to make money off of individual teams, I’m sure that the Heat are pulling in a pretty penny right about now.  Sure, if Miami was disbanded then LeBron, D-Wade and co. would go elsewhere and make money for the league, but right now the Heat are a big-time cash cow and will stay that way for a while.  Hey ... why mess with a good thing?

Nate's take: Rony Seikaly once played there dawg, Rony Seikaly. 

 

Milwaukee Bucks

Frank Madden from Brew HoopTo make an honest case for why the Bucks shouldn't be contracted probably begins by acknowledging that yes, there are a few major factors that would undoubtedly work against them. Playing in one of the league's smallest markets? Check. Year-to-year lease of an old building and no prospects for a new arena in the immediate future?  Mark it down!  A couple decades of mediocrity on the court? Gulp, we got that too.

Yet, I have a hard time believing that it's in anyone's best interest to give up on NBA basketball in Milwaukee. Pointing to a championship 40 years ago or the Bucks' perennial 50-win teams of the '80s seems a bit overly sentimental at this point, but the truth is that Milwaukee has long shown it can be a legitimate basketball town and owner Herb Kohl has never been afraid to spend money.

All too often the cash has been spent in unwise fashion (see Michael Redd, Bobby Simmons, et al), but contraction implies a team with no identity, no fan support, and an owner no longer willing to pay the bills. It's true that many Bucks fans have become disillusioned with the franchise after 20 years of consistently poor returns, but the support behind the 46-win campaign two years ago served as a reminder that Wisconsinites are still willing to embrace professional basketball, provided it comes in a likable, at least somewhat successful packaging. If nothing else, you can't accuse us of having high standards, and at the very least Bucks fans know their owner is willing to risk losing money just for the chance to win games.

Sure, Kohl's management of the team can certainly be questioned in terms of wins and losses, but Donald Sterling he ain't. His heart was in the right place when he saved the team from leaving in the '80s, and it's difficult to imagine him giving up now. Besides, if Forbes' numbers are to be believed, the Bucks haven't exactly been hemorrhaging money even with a bloated payroll that regularly threatened the luxury tax in recent years. 

Which is why the notion of simply wiping the Bucks--or any other team for that matter--off the basketball map still seems so bizarre. What are we trying to accomplish again, anyway? The idea that there isn't enough global talent to support a 30-team league seems rather far-fetched in 2011, and paying hundreds of millions of dollars to make one team go away doesn't seem like the most rational, long-term approach to solving the NBA's more fundamental problems. Odds are the league will more effectively solve its red ink problem by a combination of a) cutting the wages of the most well-compensated athletes in all of sports b) riding the league's record ratings to a healthy bump in its next TV deal and c) waiting patiently as the economy (and consumer spending) recover from arguably the worst downturn since the league has ever seen. It's not to say that every possible option for improving the league shouldn't considered, but in the grand scheme of things contraction would appear to be more of a distraction than a real solution.

Nate's take: I guess I should stop saying that basketball writers I met in Vegas are big hoops fans, that's like saying that chocolate milk is delicious, of course it is! But Frank is another guy that knows his stuff and is fun to chat with and it's always good to read his take. It sounds like the Bucks are in a pretty good place, but they do need a new arena. I also like how Mr. Madden outlined the real issues towards the end of his case. The real probably isn't too many teams ... there is definitely enough talent to keep 30 squads. 

 

Minnesota Timberwolves

Tim Allen from Canis HoopusSay this for the Minnesota Timberwolves: They may not be winners, but they are certainly entertaining. From the “will he, won’t he” of Ricky Rubio to the face mushing of Michael Beasley, our players can make the front page of ESPN without even playing in an NBA game. Add to that our Vice President of Basketball Operations, David Kahn, who is basically just a walking sound bite. “Manna from Heaven”, comparing Darko to Vlade in front of Chris Webber, the “show of hands” press conference; why would you want to lose this much unintentional comedy? Keep the Wolves, and not only will teams have a couple of easy wins on their schedules (especially once Kevin Love leaves for Los Angeles), but fans will have seasons worth of unintentional comedy.

 

Nate's take: The Minnesota fans are too good to have a team this bad. There is a nice window of hope in T-Wolves land right now with Ricky Rubio coming over and Derrick Williams waiting to team up with Kevin Love and I think the Wolves are safe from any contraction talk, for now. 

 

New Jersey Nets:

Nets DailyPretty simple: They have the richest owner in the league and a year from now, they'll own their own brand-new building in the most populous borough of the most populous city in the country

Nate's take: I think David Stern is licking his chops when he thinks about the Brooklyn Nets. Safe.

 

New Orleans Hornets

Rohan of At The HiveThe Hornets have very randomly had a highly productive summer. Over 9,000 season tickets were sold - more than any other NBA team over the last three months. A fifth million-dollar corporate sponsor in Chevron, joined Cox, Ochsner Health, 7-UP, and Entergy. And if that wasn't enough, Marco Belinelli is even "working on becoming complete player." It's all happening. The Hornets currently need minority buyers to dive in alongside Gary Chouest, and with the momentum created by ticket sales and lucractive business tie-ins, they will have done a pretty impressive job of marketing themselves to prospective investors by summer's end, even if Marco Belinelli the Complete Player is more farcical than Derrick Rose the MVP, zing!

But in any case, my defense of The Hornets rests less on these recent developments and more on my own romanticized concepts about Sports and Life and other abstract nouns that Grantland would capitalize and then insert obnoxious footnotes about. To vote for the Hornets is, if you think about it, to champion the ineffability of the human spirit (if you think about it). To contract them* is to announce one's soullessness. The next logical step would be a Lakers vs. Celtics Finals every year, forever, in Cowboys Stadium, with Manchester United, the New York Yankees, and LeBron James sitting courtside. 

The End.

* "Doesn't this apply to every other small market team?" asked nobody.

Nate's take: Getting Rohan to respond to this piece was like pulling teeth out of a toddler's head with a pair of pliers and zero anesthetic. He's probably asked to defend the Hornets on a regular basis, so I could understand if he had a lack of excitement to once again defend the Bugs. Being owned by the league isn't good and this team is the main reason we are having this contraction talk in the first place. The spotlight is on the Hornets as Stern can dangle contraction so long as the NBA has to "babysit" this club. But as Rohan points out, there may be some positive moves for NOLA's squad.

 

New York Knicks:

Seth from Posting and ToastingThe league ought not to contract the Knicks because, no matter how they're faring, they are an NBA stalwart. They've got a ton of history, a huge fanbase, and they play in one of the biggest markets on the planet. Also, Renaldo Balkman just finished construction on a tepee in Central Park in which he can play Canasta with neighborhood rodents. He'd be very disappointed if asked to leave.

Nate's take: Balkman is living in a tepee? Melo is there? Contract 'em! Jokes! We all know that Stern would never contract his Knicks. They are safe, but can they form the super-team they'll need to compete for a title in Melo and Amar'e Stoudemire's primes? 

 

Oklahoma City Thunder:

Zorgon from Welcome to Loud City: The Thunder should not be contracted because they are the newest team in the NBA, and a team on the rise. They fill up the arena nearly every night and have fans who come regularly from out of town. They just reached the Western Conference Finals and their popularity has only grown since their entry into the league. By contracting the Thunder you get rid of one of your strongest assets and a team that could be very close to contending for an NBA title.

Nate's take: They beat the promising Nuggets in the playoffs in 2011, contract 'em! Ha ha. The Thunder are a promising team, but they are also were born in a very controversial way. What happened to the Sonics is part of the reason why I wanted to reach out to all our SB Nation writers - if the Sonics could be taken away (a former NBA Champion in 1979) then any team could be moved or dissolved. Oklahoma City has been a success in terms of packed arenas, but it also serves as a warning to all fan bases. Zorgon points to the popularity of the Thunder, but I can't help but wonder if the same buzz would surround the team if they weren't so successful on the court. 

 

Orlando Magic:

Evan Dunlap from Orlando Pinstriped PostAt first blush, contracting the small-market Orlando Magic might appear to make sense, especially if one considers the real possibility that Dwight Howard will depart in free agency next summer. But Orlando has two distinct advantages over other small-market teams when it comes to contraction. The brand-new, publicly financed Amway Center, which is widely recognized as among the finest pro sports venues in the country, is the biggest, as it increases potential revenue streams for the team (which was deep in the red at the embarrassingly outdated Amway Arena). Teams that get mentioned most in contraction talks--your Sacramentos, your New Orleanses, your Milwaukees--tend to come from a small market and play in an obsolete facility; they may also have owners who are unwilling to spend.

Orlando is indeed a small market by NBA standards, but it has the Amway Center, and an exceptionally wealthy owner; indeed, it was Rich DeVos who okayed the $118 million contract Otis Smith gave free-agent forward Rashard Lewis in 2007... after Grant Hill's $93 million deal expired. Criticize the wisdom of those signings if you wish. Just don't call Mr. DeVos cheap.

Another edge Orlando has over most other small markets is its location. Though the team will surely be dreadful if Howard leaves, the ability to attract quality free agents (money, warm weather, no state income tax) ought to prevent the Magic from dwelling in the cellar for too long. Orlando is what Bill Simmons once termed a "destination" free-agent city due to those factors, along with Miami, New York, and Los Angeles.

Nate's take: A young franchise, born in 1989, but a quite successful one. Will two game changing centers depart this team (Shaquille O'Neal in 1996 and perhaps Howard as Evan points out)? Orlando is a small market team that isn't afraid to spend big market money. But fans in Denver and Cleveland can sympathize with Orlando's ability to retain the big time players. If Orlando loses Howard, it'll be just another blow to the small market teams who couldn't figure things out with their superstar player. The destination city will usurp all the headlines and it'll look like a win for a historic franchise ... life goes on for teams like the Magic. Orlando will get the right to keep on playing though, they are safe.

 

Philadelphia 76ers

Michael Levin from Liberty BallersIt would be anarchy in Philadelphia. Even non-Sixers fans would grunge up their Seattle SuperSonics hipsterness and Philly can once again feel treated like the ugliest stepsister of New York (uglier than Boston!) - something we haven't been able to feel since the Phils won the Series in 2008 (and again in 2011). Let the Santa Claus Booers reign again.

Nate's take: I tend to think of the 76ers as the lovable losers - they haven't won a title since 1983 (I was just 1 years-old), but they have come close with a Finals appearance in 2001, thanks to Allen Iverson and Company. The Phillies have been the darlings of the city lately and the Eagles have a promising team - somehow the Sixers have been almost lost in the shuffle on a national scale. It would be weird if Charles Barkely's original team was no longer around, they are safe in their cushy market.

 

Phoenix Suns:

Wil Cantrell from Bright Side of the SunThe Phoenix Suns should not be contracted. They are a 43-year old franchise, and during that time have compiled a 1,954-1,540 record (56% winning percentage), have amassed 29 playoff and 2 finals appearances. While they are in the midst of a rebuild and have missed the playoffs two out of the last three years, the franchise is huge in AZ and abroad and will no doubt "rise again!"

Nate's take: It would be interesting to hear Robert Sarver's thoughts on this lockout, but I doubt he'd want his team taken away from him - although some Suns fans probably would be in favor of him being replaced as owner. Wil points to the Suns strong history and we all remember the exciting playoff runs with Steve Nash ... felt like yesterday. The Suns are safe.

 

Portland Trail Blazers:

Dave from BlazersedgeContract the Blazers and thousands upon thousands of crazed, unshaven fans will rip your head off.  That is all.

Nate's take: There might not be a more rabid internet fan base than the one in Portland, or those who follow the Blazers I should say (we have lots of readers outside of Colorado here, same has to be true in Oregon). After reading The Breaks of the Game I understand a lot of the Blazers history and their connection to the city. Like Dave points out, take them away and you'll have real problems. 

 

Sacramento Kings

Tom Ziller from SacTown RoyaltyThe NBA should contract the Sacramento Kings, because cities that will sell out 11 straight seasons of almost unanimously bad basketball just as a thank you to the league grow on trees, because communities that rally to get a building constructed with no help from the team owners -- in fact, with hostility from the team owners -- are everywhere, and because Sacramento is a low-rent town full of yokels and whizzadoodles, amirite?

Nate's take: As Ziller points out, the problem with the Kings is not the fan base. The Kings are in an interesting situation. Owners with money problems who think their solution is to move the team - should they be allowed to move their team? They did pay for it ... but what about the fans? If the stadium is going to be financed by the taxpayers then shouldn't they get some sort of say in what happens to the team? Or perhaps a majority say in what happens to the team? It'll be interesting to see what happens to the Kings, will they get the same fate as the Sonics? I sure hope not.

 

San Antonio Spurs

Jollyrogerwilco from Pounding the RockThe San Antonio Spurs should not be contracted because after earning the best winning percentage in all professional sports over the past 15 years by winning 70% of their games, Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili are getting old and will soon retire. Which means that the rest of the league will have a better chance of beating them

Nate's take: My sister was just in San Antonio on business. She said the Texans were talking about their Spurs, no surprises there. Spurs fans are passionate about their team, as it's the only professional franchise in S.A., and the support they get will keep them safe.

 

Toronto Raptors:

Adam Francis from Raptors HQShould the NBA contract Canada's only NBA team?  It's an interesting question.  On one side, we're talking about a club that has one of the worst franchise winning percentages in the league, and doesn't look to be turning the corner soon. Curling draws more viewers nationally than the team, and it gets dwarfed media-wise by hockey, especially their brethren Maple Leafs.

Yet, the fan base that does follow the team is extremely ardent, and attendance has never been much of an issue for the Dinos. The club is also one of the more financially successful teams in the league.  It placed 10th in terms of value based on Forbes' rankings of NBA franchises last year, and is just one of 10 teams that generated more than one million dollars in gate receipts on average per game. Add in a strong Canadian dollar, a bottomless pit of management money thanks to Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, the Raptors' ownership group, and the club is on solid economic ground.

Add in the fact that David Stern has always been big on expanding the game outside of the U.S., and that well, Toronto IS White Vegas, and I'd say that Toronto shouldn't be one of the first clubs to come up regarding contraction talk.

They're by no means immune though, and should the team continue to erode the loyalty of its fans by putting together sub 30-win seasons, and going along without marketable stars, things could change quickly.

Nate's take: The Raptors and Grizzlies both came into the league in 1995 as the NBA expanded into Canada (for those of you who have been in a cave, the Grizz were originally in Vancouver). Only the Raptors remain and should be safe because if NBA executives love traveling to Toronto as much players they should be safe. 

I have heard talk of Vancouver getting another shot - so if contraction is real talk then expansion isn't likely ... it'd be an existing team being uprooted. Who would go? Yikes.

 

Utah Jazz:

Basketball John from SLC DunkThe only reason the Jazz should be in jeopardy of being contracted is if the league is collapsing. Why else would you get rid of one of the most competent franchises in the league? They've been a model of how to make a franchise successful despite being in one of the smallest markets in the league. The fans support the team in good seasons and in bad. Loyalties and homerism aside, how many other franchises would swap teams/players right now with the Jazz? 10? 15? 20? The fact that even a couple came to mind indicates that the Jazz should be far away from contraction talk.

Nate's take: Not the ideal place for free agents, the Nuggets also struggle in this area, but a well run franchise that is undergoing some major changes. No more Jerry Sloan or Deron Williams, but the future doesn't look bleak in Utah either. The Jazz, who once upon a time were in New Orleans (1974-1979), are safe.

 

Washington Wizards:

Mike Prada from Bullets ForeverBecause Michael Jordan once played for us.  You wouldn't want to contract a team Michael Jordan once played for, would you?

Nate's take: I really wish they'd switch back to the Bullets name. Another historic team, in a great city, and with a bright future. The Wiz are safe. 

 

We don't know the extent of what NBA teams are facing as far as this whole revenue mess goes. But we do see that franchise values haven't plummeted either, according to Forbes. There shouldn't be talk of contraction as there is easily enough talent to fill 30 rosters. Stern was talking about expanding the NBA to Europe in 2008, and now the league has used or at least mentioned the possibility of contracting, at least, the New Orleans Hornets during this lockout.

Lost in the talk of who will get more millions is the question of what role do the fans play? We see teams get uprooted and arenas get built with large amounts of taxpayer funding. It's a funny position as we see things like public schools continue to get the shaft in funding, but taxpayers get suckered into donating money to line billionaires and millionaires pockets. People pay for arenas to be built, to watch a game be played ... and just like that ::snap:: they can be taken away.

Basketball is around to provide us with entertainment and in rough economic times we shouldn't be forced to think about the possibility of our teams being taken away. Keep our NBA the way it is now and figure out a way to make things work. Easier said than done? Glad I'm not the one who is being tasked to do the real thinking.  

 

 

 

Nate_Timmons on Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/Nate_Timmons
ntimmons73@yahoo.com 

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I don't really see a case

to contract any of these teams. I don’t have any affinity for the Bobcats either, but Jordan as the owner does spark league interest.

by NugNugz on Sep 26, 2011 8:00 AM MDT reply actions  

Are you suggesting moving the Grizzlies to the Eastern Conference? With your plan, the West would have 13 teams and the East would grow to 16 teams (if the Clippers were contracted and the Grizz moved East, for example). I don’t see the logic of that.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

Contracting the clippers

would be counter productive. The clippers are one of the more profitable teams in the NBA you don’t get rid of a team that is adding to the leagues bottom line. Then add into the fact that they have probably one of the best young players in Griffin and a promising young support cast in Eric Gordon, Deandre Jordan (if resigned), Bledsoe, and Aminu and I see absolutely no chance that the clippers get contracted.
I highly doubt that any teams get contracted at all though, it would be devastating from an image stand point for the league and I don’t buy that there isn’t enough talent, there is plenty of talent it’s just that small markets can’t financially compete under the current rules.

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown

by bestclipfan on Sep 26, 2011 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

No contraction

No expansion.

Author of NBA Mashups. Follow me on Twitter here.

by Aykis16 on Sep 26, 2011 9:25 AM MDT reply actions  

Great Stuff Nate and fellow SBN writers!

Contract Stern!!

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 10:02 AM MDT reply actions  

Thanks Jeff.

Always good to reach out and get the various perspectives of our SB Nation family. I’m interested to see what the readers think…

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

YES TO CONTRACTION!

Serious.

Talent in the league is diluted. It’s no good for the game. The NBA has a lot of problem. A lot of problems. I might just say it three times for emphasis, but y’all get the point.

I’d like to see at least four teams gone. Mind, I’d be hard-pressed to pick the four. The Clippers are an obvious candidate, but they actually make money. So….

The league that really needs to consider contraction is the NHL.

"Such a strange predicament we find ourselves in / Baby, it's a long way to South America"

by Fly Agaric on Sep 26, 2011 10:13 AM MDT reply actions  

how can you say the talent is diluted

I would say it’s better than it’s been in a long time.

by NugNugz on Sep 26, 2011 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

What teams do you think need to go? I’m not sure I agree about diluted talent. There are guys like Gary Forbes who could barely sniff minutes in the NBA, but are surely NBA caliber players. Would cutting jobs be the best idea for the league? Think of all the folks who would be looking for employment, not just player either…

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Contraction is a touchy subject. People get attached to teams even if attendance is poor

but sometimes, economically, it makes sense

Contract Charlotte and NO definitely…with a couple teams more in the future if they can’t get their ownership issues solved.

The NBA overexpanded and we are now seeing the results.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 10:24 AM MDT reply actions  

What results are you referring to specifically? I think we just came off one of the best seasons in years where teams that didn’t even finish with .500 records were still very competitive. Are you talking more from a financial point?

With your cuts the West and East both get chopped to 14 teams, so balance still exists between conferences. Like I said in the article, I’m not too attached to the Bobcats because they are so new and it seemed crazy to put a team back in Charlotte just a few years after a team left there (with reason).

Rohan pointed to some positives of the Hornets moving forward, it’d be interesting to see if what he laid out is just short term fixes or if basketball could survive in NOLA (again, the Jazz left there after just like four seasons there and I don’t believe the area is seeing a big population boom right now either).

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

The Results I'm referring to are...

Bad ownership (George Shinn, the Maloof Brothers, Donald Sterling, Robert Sarver) Shinn is out of the league…the Maloofs are busy trying to run to Anaheim.

In a perverse way, too many teams gives bad owners cover. They can always claim diluted talent and lack of adequate fan support to run their teams on the cheap…( hello Donald Sterling) and then pocket the profits.

You reduce the amount of teams…you take away the excuses.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's easier to contract franchises than it is to change owners

unfortunately

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

I see your nigh

and raise you a naught. As in….some teams with bad owners already know their season is all for naught.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

I’m not sure I follow this. Donald Sterling bought the Clippers in 1981 when the league had 23 teams. He’s a terrible owner, but the idea that 30 teams are giving him cover seems off target given that he’s been an owner for three decades, and for more than a dozen of those years were in an NBA with fewer than 28 teams.

In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd

by Steve Perrin on Sep 27, 2011 11:09 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

And what "good" reason did the Hornets have to leave Charlotte?

Do attendance records mean nothing?

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

And I'm not too attached to the Nuggets,

Jazz, Spurs, Celtics, Pistons, 76’ers, Thunder, Raptors or any other team that isn’t from my region.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

LOL.

Yeah I’m not real attached to anyone but the Nuggets, either. Big surprise there. As long as it’s not the Nuggets that get contracted, I couldn’t care less. Homerism to a T. Welcome to hardcore fandom. :)

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 27, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

Lol, exactly.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions  

But once we start to see teams like the Sonics just disappear, don't you think that eventually puts your Nuggets in danger?

It’s like if you met a girl who had a boyfriend, got her number and started talking to her … eventually she breaks up with her guy and you start dating her. Would you be surprised if at some point she broke up w/ you and was already dating someone else? Once things start slipping down a slope you have to be on the lookout for danger before it approaches you or else you’re screwed.

It’s too bad that more NBA fans didn’t get behind what happened to the Sonics, because it could eventually happen to any of our teams.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

As far as precedent goes, when is the last time any major sports' league contracted?

And as far as what happened to the Sonics, storied franchises relocate all the time (Baltimore Colts, NY baseball Giants, Brooklyn Dodgers, Oakland Raiders, New Orleans Jazz), so I’m not anymore threatened by what happened to them than I was before, and what happened before is plenty threatening.

The Sacramento Kings started in Rochester, went to Cincinnati, Omaha, Kansas City and the Sacramento (I think). A team bailing on a city frankly used to happen more often.

As far as contraction though, I can’t remember it happening outside of the ABA.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Strikethrough was supposed to stop at the last z in Jazz.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 27, 2011 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Very good points!

Cleveland Browns, Los Angeles Rams, St. Louis Cardinals … to name a few more off the top of me dome …

Yes, I’m trying to think of an example – Montreal Expos were just relocated instead of contracted. Baseball would probably move the Marlins vs. contracting them as well. The funny thing about the NBA is that contraction is crazy b/c Stern has already mentioned cities that are waiting for teams (St. Louis, Vancouver, Seattle, Anaheim and maybe a couple more) … so how can the NBA be serious about contraction when there is a FREAKING waiting list to get a squad?!? Heck, the NBA is probably closer to expansion!

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

I personally would hate to see contraction

because while a person might not have any affection for a certain team, it’s really impossible for me to pick a team to go. Every team, save for the Bobcats thus far, have had some good years. Hell it wasn’t that long ago that the Twolves were whooping our asses in the first round on their way to the conference finals. That’s why I just don’t see it as an option. I don’t want to see expansion either, especially to Vancouver where it didn’t work the first time, but I would really hate to lose any team that’s currently in the league.

The crap that starts freaking me out the most is when Stern starts spouting off about having NBA teams in Europe – that to me is just ridiculous.

by NugNugz on Sep 27, 2011 4:58 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Stern's just going senile

I’ve also heard him talk about NBA European and Chinese divisions with several NBA teams located there with each US based team making a road trip in Europe and China each year and vice versa.

I can only imagine some kid going to the NBA draft and finding out he was drafted to some team based half way around the world.

And to your list above, I’ve heard him say Vegas, San Diego, San Jose, and Tampa….

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I hope they don't try for a road trip.

They’d be super bummed when they found out the Bering Strait wasn’t there.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 27, 2011 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sorry, don't want to sound like I'm hating on your Bobcats.

Attendance is definitely a factor in my book, but as we’re seeing with the Kings – it’s not all too important to the owners either (and the Sonics always had good attendance, even in the years when the team was being gutted).

I only agreed w/ Jeff, a bit, because like I said the Bobcats are so new. It would be weird to me, in Denver no less, if like the Pacers (former ABA team), 76ers, Jazz, Blazers, Suns or any teams I grew up watching were contracted. Those are not “my teams” at all, but the history behind them is definitely worth something to me. Like I said in the article, and I’ll reiterate now, it’s dumb for me to want to not give a franchise a chance based off just history. You can’t build history w/o time and the Bobcats need nothing but time to change my mind. I don’t want to see any teams contracted at all!

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Lol, nah, it's ok.

I wouldn’t call it hate (you have to be good to be hated on). Your reasoning is justified. From the inside looking out though, it’s easier for me to point to all these reasons the Bobcats haven’t been profitable though because it’s something I’ve been “researching” for years. And you’re right, I really don’t expect many people outside the Carolinas to care for the Bobcats more than the 76’ers or Jazz. It’s a lot of people in Charlotte that couldn’t care less about Charlotte.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions  

And honestly, I was going to tackle this piece alone, but knew it’d be a much stronger piece with the help of the SB Nation crew as people like yourself know so much more about the Bobcats than I do. I actually learned quite a bit from doing this and emailing with our folks.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've stopped shaving in anticipation.

But dang does my back get scratchy when I do that.

"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man

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by T Darkstar on Sep 26, 2011 11:21 AM MDT reply actions  

Goo!!!

I’ve actually been kicking around some ideas of not shaving or cutting my hair until the season starts up, my own protest of sorts. But I might be too ugly to post the pics here, traffic would die!

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

I voted other because while contraction makes sense....

…. I fear the Nugs would be on the list. Teams hate coming here on a b2b. We lost our marquis player. We’ve never won a championship and have an anemic playoff record. We are not far removed from the pre-Melo days of 11 wins and 1/3 full arenas. Denver is not that big of a market.

I don’t think the Nuggets will be contracted compared to other teams, but I don’t think we are safe either if contraction happens.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 11:38 AM MDT reply actions  

The back to back

Is one of the things that has to be eliminated from the NBA.

It makes for some terrible, uncompetitive basketball, you know. Do any Nuggets fans feel good about blowing out Dallas or San Antonio at the Can when they played in Sacramento the night before?

Of course not. And how fair is it for the Nuggets to get blasted on night two of a back-to-back? Remember that great win against Cleveland on the road in ’10 only to get embarrassed by the Wizards the next night?

Shorten the season, eliminate back-to-backs, get rid of four teams, and have greater revenue sharing.

"Such a strange predicament we find ourselves in / Baby, it's a long way to South America"

by Fly Agaric on Sep 26, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Don't disagree with anything you said...

But, just in the context of which teams get contracted, I think Denver is on the second tier of teams to get contracted.

1st tier: Toronto, New Orleans, Sacramento, Minnesota
2nd tier: Denver, Memphis, Orlando, Charlotte, Milwaukee
3rd tier: Utah, OKC, Phoenix, Indiana

Politics in the form of someone powerful who has a hard-on to screw Denver or save one of the first-tier teams. I think if there is contraction, it would be 4 teams, not 2.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Add Cleveland to 2nd tier

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

Toronto is the only Canadian team

Has somewhat of a decent history and is actually in a decent sized market. They shouldn’t be in the first tier.

by Mikel L on Sep 26, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Canada Schmanada

I fart on Canada. I say contract Toronto just because they’re Canadian. John Candy, not funny. Alanis Morrisette, pshhhhh! Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy — LOSERS!!

(Just kidding if you couldn’t tell).

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Whoa whoa whoa!!

My entire side of my dad’s family is Canadian! They came to Colorado in the 1960’s from Nova Scotia! Great people! haha

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nova Scotia!! Anne of Green Gables is a slut!!

(again, just kidding).

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

I'd lower Denver to the third tier

and raise Indiana to the second. Denver actually averages better attendance than the Pacers and Kroenke owns the Pepsi Center.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 26, 2011 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Denver in the 2nd tier is ludicrous.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 26, 2011 3:34 PM MDT up reply actions  

I fear that Stern doesn't like Denver

and that politics thing is a real consideration in whether Denver is a contraction victim.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 2:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hopefully the Nuggets are safe.

I think the management and ownership is stable enough that we wont see those 11 wins seasons again, but yes, if Melo never was a Nugget (thanks Joe Dumars), who knows what the team would be like right now … although Kroenke had ownership just before that so I think the franchise was headed in the right direction.

Totally agree about B-2-Bs and wrote about it in my zany cut down of regular season games piece.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

doesnt seem like gar. contracts, flopping or revenue sharing are being talked about

While I believe they are issues more important to the NBA than reducing the number of teams overall.

by InboundingLobPass on Sep 26, 2011 7:54 PM MDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Good call!

Once the league gets back to business it’d be nice to see flopping get tackled.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 26, 2011 9:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

And floppers, too.

The should be tackled and forced to wear a big red F on their forehead for the next 3 games.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 26, 2011 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions  

Channel 7 showed a clip of a referee pretending he got head butted...

…. flopping and writhing on the ground. Hilarious.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 9:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0cWtcXI

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 26, 2011 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Futbol:

A bad example to every sport, including the NFL it now seems.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 27, 2011 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

of course all the NBA players going to Europe will have a new found appreciation for the FLOP

and they’ll be experts at it.
They’re gonna come back to the NBA and teach their teams how to do it effectively and get away with it.

I think this whole lockout has backfired in terms of separating the NBA players from Euro Floppers….

Of course not all players will change….

Manu won’t change a bit, he already flops as much as possible!

by InboundingLobPass on Sep 27, 2011 12:06 AM MDT up reply actions  

I dunno about contraction

but I suggest moving the bobcats to Chicago. Just like LA and NY, that market is large enough to maintain 2 franchises. Also with MJ as owner, he’d get fans in their seats quickly. I think it’s more about putting the right franchise in the right place.

by TyLawesome on Sep 26, 2011 9:44 PM MDT reply actions  

I like that idea

If LA and NY can handle two teams there is no reason that Chicago can’t.

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown

by bestclipfan on Sep 26, 2011 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

There would be no talks of moving the Bobcats anywhere

had Shinn not done it for his own selfish reasons in the first place or if we were actually given time to put a good team on the floor now. The city of Charlotte supports winners. Compare the attendance for the Panthers last year to the attendance this year. The stadium is rocking now, and that’s all because of Cam Newton. Not even a winning team yet. The same will happen if we’re ever able to draft a STAR. Dwight Howard was our shot (you wouldn’t be saying anything about Charlotte had the NBA not screwed us over on that pick. CP3 was another shot that we missed out on. But you can’t say teams like OKC and Memphis are safe because they’ve had recent playoff success and say Charlotte needs to go because they’ve had none thus far. If that’s the case, contraction should be ALL about timing. It’s easy to say “oh the Kings should move or be contracted now”, but where was this talk when Webber, Bibby, and Divac were running that squad? If Evans and Cousins turn it up this year, it will be foolish talk because we’ll see their attendance and support on the rise again. My bottom line, if you’re going to talk about contracting a team, do it with the bottom line numbers. If Charlotte falls into that rank, so be it. You can’t talk about removing a team because “they have no history” or “you don’t like their colors” or “you don’t think the ownership is good”. Those just aren’t valid reasons for such a drastic move. The numbers are valid enough.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 9:54 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I understand your passion...like I said, contraction is an incredibly touchy subject

The Nuggets of the 90’s could have and maybe SHOULD have been contracted. Their ownership situation was in flux the entire decade. They were allowed to be purchased by two fellows who couldn’t afford to own a team (David Stern approved), then were sold to a company that didn’t want them and were up for sale for the better part of 5 years. Until Stan Kroenke bought the team in 1999-2000 (after nearly being purchased by his brother in law and potentially moved to St. Louis) you could argue that the Nuggets were a drain on the NBA itself (ie: not generating profit….worst ownership in the NBA). It was a bad time to be a Nuggets fan.

I’d love for their to be a very high cap floor to force cheap owners to actually start putting money into their teams. If they can’t afford to pay for players then they shouldn’t be allowed to own a team.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

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by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 27, 2011 11:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

There....not their

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 27, 2011 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions  

Lol, I don't mean to sound emotional

but you’re right, it’s a very touchy subject. I just think the best approach to the contraction talk is to take the cold hard evidence and evaluate it by that. Like, instead of focusing on poor teams like my Bobcats, focus on the teams that have a hard time getting support even when they are winning teams. I think a couple of back to back trips to the playoffs would be enough to get Charlotte excited about the team again. Even a simple name change would probably be enough. Or like I said earlier, just a superstar. I’ve lived in North Carolina my entire life. I was born and raised in Gastonia, which is to Charlotte as Decatur is to Atlanta, and have lived in Charlotte the past 6 years. One thing I can say is that the city is full of fair weather fans that are ready to turn on the team at any given second. Part of that is because our teams haven’t had a chance to establish themselves and build a history. The other part is because Charlotte is a melting pot for people all over the country. But I can guarantee you that if things would just go right here for once, the fan support would come back gradually. A surprise 5th seed in the eastern playoffs would be enough. People want to cheer for the Bobcats and MJ, but they’re not going for losers. Me myself, I cheer for my guys whether they win or lose. There is a lot of potential in the Charlotte market but a winner has to be on the floor for it to be realized. Like I say, when the numbers point to us being contracted, I have no argument. But we’re in a terrible tv deal, were losing money like hell under Bob Johnson, and haven’t really given the city a team they can be proud of. Hopefully Rich Cho can change that, but if not, then I can see us being one of the teams contracted within the next decade or so if there is one.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Denver has that same issue...

There is so much to do in Colorado (other teams, hiking, skiing, camping, bar hopping, you name it – we have it) that casual fans and even diehards get fed up with supporting a product that they feel isn’t worth their money.

I have a friend that is debating whether or not to renew Rockies season tickets b/c he’s fed up with the GM and coach and doesn’t want to spend well earned money on something he feels he cares more about than the front office.

Winning helps everyone, like I said above in the article, you have to wonder if OKC would be getting the support they are if that Seattle team featuring Danny Fortson and Luke Ridnour were running the show in Oklahoma.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Very true, especially about the thunder

but in co, the broncos are like gods. They sell out every game and are heavily supported no matter what. The nuggets have been more successful then the broncos over the past decade, and don’t nearly get the amount of support.

I think part of it is that teams rise and fall way faster in the NFL, then in the NBA, and something needs to be done to create more parity in the NBA, so that fans everywhere can feel part of the action, instead of waiting years for your team to rise into the playoffs from the cellar, and then once there sitting in mediocrity, ala hawks, nuggets.

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well, the Lakers and Celtics are always good! Oh, league wide parity! haha

Yes, the Broncos are on another playing field and that has a lot to do with the fact that they’ve been pretty darn good for a number of years.

1978 – Super Bowl vs. Dallas
1987 – Super Bowl vs Giants
1988 – Super Bowl vs Redskins
1990 – Super Bowl vs. 49ers
1998 – Super Bowl vs Packers
1999 – Super Bowl vs Falcons

With a resume like that, the team has been in the hunt every decade except 2000-2010 … the Nuggets, Rockies and now the AVS can’t claim that.

by Nate Timmons on Sep 27, 2011 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

Totally agree.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Wrong, I'd argue moving the bobcats whether you had a star or not

I also argue moving the the grizzlies, and the hornets, who actually have Cp3. The reason is mainly the nba has gotten so expensive, that small markets just can’t support them whether or not they’re winning. The grizzlies have never had a profitable year yet in Memphis, and their salary is off the charts and team is winning. Moving a second team to chicago would work, and charolotte came first to my mind because of MJ, though the hornets or grizzlies could easily take up residence there as well. Also Riverside Ca, San Diego, and Seattle could support NBA teams way easier.

       The Kings have a good fan base that’s very passionate about their team, but mostly because that’s the only team they good unlike Carolina which has the Panthers and the ver popular Tar heels. The kings need a change in ownership to someone who can put up a new building and afford the team. As far as I understand it, the Maloofs are broke. It wouldn’t surprise me if OKC doesn’t work out in the long run. They have a very good team which attracts people as well as the “shiny and new” effect from people who have never had a professional team before, And the fact that the team salary is pretty low due to rookie contracts makes the team profitable in the 44th largest market. Eventually Durant, westbrook, and and Harden’s rising costs will kill their profitability and the “shiny and new effect” will wear off especially if the team starts to under perform, and they may end up looking like the KIngs now who had a good team in 02.

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

But that's my whole point.

If we, the city of Charlotte had a star, the support would come. We’re in an awful tv deal that restricts us from even being marketed to the outside NBA. Honestly, other than League Pass, how many times have you seen the Bobcats on tv? They’re not being given a fair shake at all. Like I said, check the records, the city itself is more than capable of supporting an NBA and NFL franchise simultaneously. But they won’t support a losing team. But I see where you’re coming from. A team in Chicago would have enough fans to support their team whether they are winners or losers. Charlotte won’t do that. I’m just saying that the city itself deserves a few more years too see what can happen. Jordan buying the team and making the playoffs really invigorated the fan base. Now we’re rebuilding. We’re really not in a good position to correct our financial problems overnight, but when/if it happens (being turned into a halfway decent squad), Charlotte will not continue to be one of the first teams brought up when we’re talking about contraction. If we had a team like the Thunder’s right now, our attendance records would sky rocket. Once we’re out of our tv deal, our viewership will light up as well. I’m just speaking as a Bobcat fan. Not only have I paid attention to the actual product on the floor over the years, but also some of the things that were causing the team’s popularity to remain stagnant. We really haven’t had some of the “privileges” of some of the other NBA teams that have done poorly, despite their advantages.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions  

The "model" the Thunder are using is heavily based on the Spurs

Sam Presti was part of the Spurs organization. The problem with that model is it places alot of emphasis on winning to lure player core players (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka) in to staying for a chance to win every year. Then the team can rely on international scouting to plug in role players as they see fit. This only works if the winning far outweighs the benefits of leaving to a larger market for the core.

The Spurs were EXTREMELY lucky because they got Tim Duncan on a team that already had David Robinson…so the dominoes fell in to place. It remains to be seen if this model can work in other places over the long haul.

Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe

DenverStiffs.com

Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78

by Jeffrey Morton on Sep 27, 2011 11:51 AM MDT up reply actions  

http://www.rufusonfire.com/2011/2/9/1979007/what-big-market-dominance

Those are my thoughts on big market teams. Please take a chance to read if you ever have one.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good read

Some things that you didn’t outline in regards to the Lakers.

Lamar Odom was due to the trade of Shaq. However Shaq was a free agent signing. Kobe was traded more due to the fact that he threatened to play in Italy over signing with the Hornets. As well teh erason he even dropped that far back was his insitance on playing for the Lakers. As well the Jerry West connection came in to play with the Pau Gasol trade. Many teams questioned the motivation for Memphis besides. Bynum pick deserves credit, the other moves however wouldn’t have happend to teams in other markets.

by remyrems on Sep 27, 2011 12:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thank you.

Shaq is definitely a reflection of a star signing with a big market team. But the Lakers also put themselves in position financially to be able to sign him. Shaq wouldn’t have signed for anything less than the max, so I think credit has to be given to the Lakers for giving themselves the opportunity to make such a move.

You’re right, Kobe was making threats about playing in Italy, but that doesn’t mean the Hornets had to trade him. Especially not to the Lakers. Any draft pick’s rights ultimately rests with the team that draft’s him so it’s not like he was able to make the decision. Plus, he was the 13th pick of the draft. No player’s threats selected that low can be taken too serious. It’s not like people knew Kobe would turn out to be great.

As for the Jerry West connection, I don’t really think he was thinking about making the Lakers great when he made that trade. I’m sure if any team was offering a better package, they would’ve the trade with the others. Just my opinions.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fair points..

Salary cap was about 23 million in 1996 when Shaq signed. There were quite a few teams that could offer max money. That was more due to a product of retiring players that LA had space. They had spent their money on splendid players such as Nick the quick.

Well if you had a top 5 pick saying I’ll play in Italy and having connections there unless X team picks me. He slides to you at 13, I believe teams were taking it very seriously. Then I would believe you’d be a bit more delibrate if you got descent trade offer.

Jerry West connection had more to do with not shopping for offers. I’d beyond shocked if that was the best they could do for Gasol.

by remyrems on Sep 27, 2011 2:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

That was a good read. Thanks.

Dispute your article about the Lakers to some extent though. The Lakers have always been the promised land for players wanting a title and big name credibility (Shaq or Kareem, for example). Yeah, they’ve made “brilliant” moves but as we learned with Melo, a player who would not otherwise have been traded can force his way out by demanding a trade to the city with the big lights.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thank you sir.

And that’s true, but to me, Melo is more of a reflection of how bad the league can get with that thinking, but I don’t think he represents a standard. Over the history, I can’t recall too many players wanting to jump to a bigger market just for the sake of doing so.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

@Jeff

I may be wrong, but I feel like the Nuggets may have taken a more spur like model. We’ve recently started adding youth to the team through scouting late round steals and trading for under appreciated players from other teams to turn into quality role players for us. Ex: 2 second rounders for Jr, a second rounder for AAA, Ty Lawson 18th overall, a 2nd rounder for Koufos, Forbes undrafted, 22nd and 26th picks for Faried, Hamilton, a second rounder for Chewy.

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I just think it's funny how you

can say that because “so and so has been around so long” or “so and so had playoff success a few years ago” that 95% of the teams are safe, but the history of the Hornets isn’t relevant enough to keep a team in Charlotte. My thoughts on the NBA? It’s fine like it is. Change the CBA, but contraction of any teams would be dumb.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 9:39 AM MDT reply actions  

But of course, I can't help but be biased.

Good read.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 9:41 AM MDT up reply actions  

We will not see any teams get contracted after this lockout lasts under one full NBA season

but if one had to go, it’s New Orleans.

Besides, I don’t think any owners want to cast off one of their own as it is.

by thewiz06 on Sep 27, 2011 9:59 AM MDT reply actions   1 recs

Just realized I was on a Denver page (duh)

which happens to be one of my favorite teams not named the Bobcats because of their depth and good ol’ JR. But one question I must ask………..how do you guys feel about Martin, Smith, and Chandler all heading over to China?

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:21 PM MDT reply actions  

Can't blame them. There won't be a season IMO

and if there is a season, then we may be kind of screwed, although Karl would be forced to play Mozgov, Koufos and Faried when he wouldn’t otherwise be so inclined, with the result maybe being a pleasant surprise.

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 27, 2011 1:28 PM MDT up reply actions  

I forgot you guys got Faried too.

If the Nuggets can manage to keep everyone around and developing, I really don’t see a team that can compete with them. I mean, they have damn near 3 starting lineups. Well, 2 now that Chandler and gang are in China. I heard they should be able to come back in March (well Chandler anyway). I’m not familiar with the rules, but would they be playoff eligible?

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

yes, they would

you need to be active for 1 regular season game to play in the playoffs

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

mixed...

there are rumors that there was an under the table agreement to release those players once the nba season starts, because chinese teams can release at any time, but we don’t know if that’s why?

We weren’t gonna resign Kmart anyway. Chandler will be back if he can be released or in 2012. JR maybe yes, maybe not. JR lives in Denver and loves the city, but not sure if he would’ve resigned. If both of those guys are in china next year, and there is a season, Hamilton will get those backup minutes, and we all want to see Nene at pf and mozgov at center or Faried at pf and Nene at center or Nene at center, Gallo at pf, Hamilton/ Chandler(if back) at sf. And then of course we have oodles of cap space, so… there is free agency to get another player

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I didn't think Smith was coming back.

Him and Karl can never seem to stay on the same page for too long. I just think that guy is an amazing scoring talent though. We could use someone like him over here in Charlotte.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well like I said, JR likes it here

And the organisation likes him, but him and Karl had the rocky relationship. I see it as a 50% chance for his return to Denver, 0% on Kmart’s return, right around 99% for Chandler though. He was part of the melo package. We didn’t get him for a 2 month rental. Someone would have to offer him crazy money for us not to match.

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'd be surprised if anybody outbid you guys for Chandler.

But hey, you never know. I’m sure some loser out there would pay him a ridiculous amount and expect him to save their franchise.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

So Charlotte, from your out-of-Denver perspective, if there was 4 team contraction....

who would get the axe? Do you think Denver is in danger?

Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."

by margabelle on Sep 27, 2011 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

No, not at all.

Denver certainly wouldn’t be in trouble. I’d figure New Orleans would be absolutely the first to go, but the rest would be anybody’s guess. I do think Charlotte does have the potential to be on of those teams though. I really need to know all of the numbers to make a real judgement on who should go, but we would be in the equation. I think Memphis, Toronto, Sacramento, Milwaukee and a couple other teams would also be potential candidates.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 28, 2011 6:20 AM MDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t have been shocked if all 3 weren’t back had their been a regular off-season.

Chandler may have been resigned unless he received a higher deal. Objectively I doubt Denver would have gone over 7 million a year for him. JR and Karl just don’t mix. We choose Karl with the extension…Kmart was likely to be replaced by Faried.

Next two off-seasons (or one if there is no season) will be pivotal in determining our direction. I’m with you as far as Melo being the exception to the Money/Winning/Market rule. Denver can have max money in either of the two off-seasons upcoming even with retaining Nene. Assuming a similiar cap model. Or they can tank it and trade away players on fairly good deals.

by remyrems on Sep 27, 2011 2:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

They are definitely in a good position to compete in the present and the future.

Not many teams can say that.

I'm gonna live forever, I'm never gonna die. The only thing I fear is I'm never gonna fly.

by Charlotte Bobcat on Sep 27, 2011 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions  

I've wanted to do a fan post on this forever

but if 2011-12 season is cancelled, and the new CBA has an amnesty clause, Denver enters the 2012 offseason with Lawson, Mozgov, and bird as the only players signed on the roster. Harrington out with amnesty. And, of course rights to RFA afflalo, chandler, Gallo, forbes, and Koufos, and draft rights to Faried, Hamilton, Chuwy, and 1-3 more players depending on what we do with our 2 second rounders. With so much cap space, and some top FAs available, we could try to make a Dwight, Nene, CP3/D-will big 3. If they take a paycut like miami’s big 3 did, we could retain AAA and Chandler, than build a bench out of ty, Moz, and possibly 6 rookies from picks. Give up a future first to ship out bird and it all works.

by TyLawesome on Sep 27, 2011 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Amnesty would be a double edged sword. The one thing that NJ will have some trouble with signing Dwight is that they’d have to decline the option on Brook Lopez to have the ability to sign him. With resigning him to any increase they won’t have max cap space to pair him with Deron Williams. They get rid of Outlaw they’re scenario changes.

Big 3 can’t happen unless you get them to sign for less then max money. We’d have to decline the QO on Koufus, Forbes, and Chandler to have a chance to out right sign two max players (3 max players are 30% a piece + cap holds). Miami did it as they signed for less then Max (about 3-4 million. This was subsided by lack of state tax though). That’s also assuming you don’t take Affalo to far beyond his 6 million cap hold. If you see a similiar cap or close to it there is a possibility you can make the sweetheart deal to Howard and Paul offering them our core minus Nene. Unlikely as it is no one else gives that ability.

Max salary change could impact that however. If you see a decrease on max salaries to 25% of cap for 7-9 years of service it might be possible.

by remyrems on Sep 28, 2011 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

Great objectivity on this matter

If the owners say they can only pay X. If the players have to keep their salries at Y.

Then the only way to keep salaries at the same amounts are to cut the number of people dividing in to Y. Contraction sounds great to those that stay and find another job.

Is there enough revenue to fund 30 teams? I’d say yes. Is there enough revenue to fund 30 teams in the salary structure of Orlando, Dallas, LA, and Boston? Hell no…

is there enough talent to keep 30 teams viable? Yes. Is talent spread out within the league well enough to keep 30 teams viable? Not really.

If the current business model continues, I think you’d have to cut 4 teams out. My guess would be LA Clips, Kings, Hornets, and Bucks. With a team like Minnesota going East.

If the hard line changes go to limit revenue splits further. Contraction still might happen but more then likely can be averted.

by remyrems on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM MDT reply actions  

I agree with Kings and the Hornets

but Bucks aren’t that bad financially although you could definitely make a point that they don’t really have much in the way of tradition. But as I said earlier on there is absolutely 0% chance that the clippers would get contracted, you don’t get rid of one of your most profitable teams, you don’t remove a team that adds revenue into the pot.That would be like Ford shutting down the F-150 or the explorer brand to cut costs, it would be counter intuitive to do so.

"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown

by bestclipfan on Sep 27, 2011 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

I might reserve the F-150 line for the Lakers,

but I get your point. Maybe the Focus.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 28, 2011 7:09 AM MDT up reply actions  

98% agreement.

They are making a better effort than any other American automaker right now. But yes, I would never buy one.

"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.

by love4nuggets on Sep 28, 2011 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not wanting to get of subject but

Does anyone know for sure If any of the nuggets brass or involved in any of the labor negotiations? It was my understanding that the nuggets ownership has yet to attend a single meeting so can anyone clarify this?

by tknuckle on Sep 28, 2011 8:20 PM MDT via mobile reply actions  

Wouldn't surprise me...

You don’t get the nickname silent stan by being out going, and Masai was in Africa

by TyLawesome on Sep 28, 2011 8:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it's been pretty small at the players and owners meetings, but there are supposed to be like 15 owners at the meeting on Friday.

Not sure if Josh Kroenke, the owner of the Nuggets, will be there or not. I’m sure there will be heavy reports on the upcoming meeting as David Stern is threatening all sorts of stuff #SternThreats …

by Nate Timmons on Sep 28, 2011 8:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

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