Golden Nuggets: The Nene conundrum...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jun 29, 2011 8:01 AM MDT
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
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PrintThe Nuggets are reportedly negotiating feverishly with center/power forward/Nuggets stalwart Nene and his representation to get a deal done for the Brazilian before the NBA lockout kicks in at 12:00am on Friday. I'm glad the Nuggets are trying to re-sign the valuable Nene, but it's fair to ask: what took so long?
Around this time last year, our Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony a three-year, $65 million contract extension that, had Melo inked the deal, would have kept Melo in Denver for four more seasons (the final season on his contract plus the extension). The purpose of that contract extension offer was to show Melo that the Nuggets were sincere about keeping him in Denver and to avoid having their star small forward exercise his opt-out clause on July 1st, 2011. When Melo didn't sign that generous extension it became clear that the Nuggets had to deal him elsewhere, but at least the Nuggets tried to re-sign him.
The same should have been done for Nene.
Like Melo, Nene entered the 2010-11 season with essentially two years remaining on his contract: 2010-11 and a 2011-12 "player option" year, meaning that Nene could exercise his right to become an unrestricted free agent before the 2011-12 season or take the $11.6 million guaranteed to him were he not to. And yet while the Nuggets had no problem showing Melo some love last summer, they put any love directed at Nene on hold. Could such a strategic decision come back to bite them in the ass?
From the Nuggets' perspective last summer, I suppose they were hesitant to extend any of their veteran players pending Melo's own version of "The Decision" (the organization said as much during the ongoing, nauseating Melo-drama that ensued). They were probably bracing themselves for a post-Melo world resulting in a gutted team - something we would have seen had the Nuggets traded #15 to the New Jersey Nets as was rumored for months - and having Nene extended wouldn't fit with a rebuilding plan.
But I never saw the downside to attempting to extend Nene when attempting to extend Melo. And not because it would have shown Melo that the Nuggets were "serious" about winning in Denver, because Melo was gone no matter what (if you don't believe me now, you never will).
First, offering Nene a contract extension last summer would have shown the big Brazilian that the Nuggets were committed to him staying in Denver - the only city he has played in as a pro and the hometown of his now wife - regardless of where the selfish Melo ended up residing.
Second, were Nene to have signed the extension last summer, the Nuggets would have at least had the power forward position resolved should Kenyon Martin leave in 2011 while having the four-spot solidified should a Melo deal that kept the Nuggets relevant come about.
And third, were Nene to have re-signed a year ago and the Nuggets ended up gutting the team for a rebuild, an extended Nene would have given the Nuggets extra ammunition to pick up young players and/or picks during last week's draft.
Instead, the Nuggets played "wait-and-see" with their most consistent performer not named Melo, and have suddenly decided that they really, really, really want Nene to stay in Denver. Could it be too little, too late? Or will Nuggets executive vice president of basketball operations Masai Ujiri be rewarded yet again for being patient and not panicking? Thus far, Ujiri deserves the benefit of the doubt having patiently waited for a great deal for Melo and then having his patience rewarded again by getting two players he wanted in last week's draft, without giving up much of anything to get them no less. Let's hope the third time is a charm here.
Of course, this wait-and-see strategy could ultimately backfire should Nene opt-out of his contract (as he's rumored to be doing having declined to play for the Brazilian National Team in the 2011 FIBA Americas Tournament for fear of injury) and become an unrestricted agent on Friday morning. And by backfire, I don't just mean on the Nuggets but on Nene himself.
You see, Nene and his agent might think they're being clever by forgoing a guaranteed $11.6 million next season (plus whatever extension Ujiri is willing to offer) when it's quite possible that the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement will prevent Nene from making such high figures on the other side of this lockout. Last I checked, $11.6 million was nothing to sneer at for a guy averaging 14.5 ppg and 7.6 rpg and has had a litany of past knee injuries and conditioning issues. Nene may be the Nuggets most consistent rock of a player, but he isn't an All-Star.
As aptly pointed out by the Denver Post's Mark Kiszla in his Tuesday column on the subject of Nene, the Nuggets and Nene are "not a perfect basketball marriage" but they do need each other.
The question now is; can Nene get over not being loved last summer and see to it to ink a multi-year, multi-million dollar deal to remain in Denver? Or will his bruised ego get the best of him, potentially costing him millions, but landing him in another professional basketball arena elsewhere?
Unlike the Melo-drama which lasted about eight months, the Nene conundrum will be over in about 48 hours.
On to the links...
Sandy Clough Interview
On Tuesday night, I joined FM 104.3 The Fan's Sandy Clough to discuss the Adrian Dantley non-renewal in greater detail and why the Nuggets didn't try re-signing Nene a while ago.
Nate Kreckman Interview
On Tuesday morning, I joined FM 102.3 The Ticket's Nate Kreckman and we talked about Dantley, re-signing Nene and why I'm not convinced Ty Lawson can be a starting point guard on a championship team.
Kiszla: Nene and Nuggets need each other
Mark Kiszla argues for Nene and the Nuggets to get a deal signed...already.
New (and former) Nugget Miller didn't speak to Coach Karl for years
Chris Dempsey writes about the relationship between Andre Miller and George Karl, and about how Miller may not be so happy to come off the bench next season.
Adrian Dantley says he was fired because he wouldn’t switch bench seats - Ball Don't Lie - NBA Blog - Yahoo! Sports
Kelly Dwyer gives Chris Tomasson and Denver Stiffs some mad love!
Next (and last?) CBA session Thursday - CBSSports.com
Ken Berger writes with doom and gloom about Thursday's final bargaining session between NBA owners and players.
Now that Faried, Hamilton and Miller are Nuggets, will Nene, Kenyon and J.R. Smith stay Nuggets, too? | All Things Nuggets — Denver Nuggets news — The Denver Post
Dempsey briefly discusses the futures of K-Mart and J.R., in addition to Nene.
Hill: Players learned from lockout - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Grant Hill thinks the players’ union is better prepared to wait out a lockout after weathering one in 1998.
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I would love to re-sign Nene
No, he’s not an All Star, but he is a solid player at both ends. I would love to see him boost his numbers a bit in his first full season post-Melo. That would be a nice payback for the years spent in the shadow of a road-hog.
He sure disappeared during the OKC series.
I hope we don’t pay too much.
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
That's such a ridiculous way of looking at it
You’re going to judge the guy off one series in which the opponent specifically schemed for him, consistently double and tripled him, he got injured in the middle of a game, and despite that was still our best player.
The guy might be the most underrated guy in the league and the smart teams know it – you’re going to see teams like Dallas, Houston, OKC, Boston go after the guy and seemingly “overpay” but they know that he brings defense, rebounding, and efficiency.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs make him a big offer
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Yes, but
he never brings those things for an entire game. He floats in and out, ala J.R. Smith. He certainly has all-star talent, but he doesn’t deliver all-star play. He has no business being payed as a top 20 player in this league.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Disappointed in the OKC playoffs?
I hear people say that and I wonder if they know anything about basketball and scouting. Nene dominated in Game 1 (22 points, 8 rebounds) and so the Thunder changed their defensive game plan to take him out of the game. They stopped defending K-Mart and doubled Nene and made it a point to foul himself instead of giving him easy shots.
I thought he played well against OKC
OKC has some horses inside…plus, they didn’t really have to guard the Nuggets other bigs.
Free throws
The only real problem with Nene was his uncharacteric poor free throw shooting. Hopefully he will resign and get that straightened out. The fact that they essentially employed Hack-a-Nene effectively was not good.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions
He's a career 68% shooter
He actually shot better than his career average this year…
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
chantech speaks the truth
All you have to do is look at how much better the Nugs are with him on the court. Other than only being an average rebounder, he really has no weaknesses.
This mess about him being soft or not showing up for big games is baseless and false. He’s doing a great job for someone who’s basically played out of position the last three years.
The longer this drags out, the less confidence I have...
…But I see Nene resigning here. He seems established here with his wife to the extent that he’d like to stay until he retires. But this is a business…
DRAFT PURDUE POWER FORWARD!!! THERE IS NO OTHER!!!
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 29, 2011 10:05 AM MDT reply actions
My thoughts
The funny thing is he’s worth right around a max contract if valued by how much the market would pay, given no cap. For example, if teams could pay LeBron what he was worth, they’d probably pay him in the 30 or 40 million range given the value he adds to a franchise + his production.
However, if you’re a smart GM, you should argue his value relative to other players in the league. You know his true value is close to max contract, so your goal is to make him accept a contract based on relative value. For example, LeBron makes a max deal, you don’t put up as many points or wins, so you should make less than a max deal. What’s fair for Nene? Somewhere in the 12.5 – 13 million dollar range. That would represent a pay raise from what he was scheduled to make, be in line with what Chandler made this season, but still below a max deal.
Finally, the Nuggets need to lock him up before he gets on the open market. If you sign him before he tests the market, you determine his value. If you let him go on the market, his value is determined by the dumbest team – all he needs is 1 team willing to overpay (Atlanta Hawks with JJ last year, and Daniel Snyder of the Redskins every year).
Hopefully there are incentives in the new CBA that give teams advantages in keeping their own players + a reduced cap and we would come out of this in a really good position. Being able to game that, however, takes ownership that’s involved in the CBA discussions and understands the different offers and scenarios – something I haven’t seen out of the Nuggets.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
At one point
Nene was making $10 million a year and one of the national writers, Simmons I think, said at $10 million Nene was the most appropriately paid player in the league. $12 million is a little high for his current production, but perhaps his production improves with Anthony gone. If he is asking for $14 to $15 million, he is asking way too much.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions
That was in his trade value column
I agreed with it when he was averaging more on the line of 13/6 with efficency. He upped the numbers slightly but kept the percentage higher. Since Nene got here I was always amazed at his post defense. I saw him play Tim Duncan insanely well in his prime. I honestly thought foul trouble in the laker series near the end for Nene was the killer. He owne Gasol to the point Gasol just tried to flail for calls.
Is Nene worth 12-13? You bet, when they establish him in the post early then teams have to play more straight up. He passes well out of the post, and this is a more unique talent these days. He doesn’t go full on rebounding, that would be my only qualm. If he put 4 quarters together like how he starts the game he’d be a max player.
Get him resigned and see what the new CBA holds for us. My personal take is try your hardest to get Dwight Howard either via trade or providing max cap space for next year (is possible if we renounce Koufus next year and let Chandler walk). With that you have a championship conteding team.
D Howard
Ain’t coming to Denver. Period.
www.sweatervestwednesday.com
by REAPtheThird on Jun 29, 2011 11:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Would agree in most years...
But if you start looking at the teams with available cap space in 2012, they’re few and far between. Covered this before but a trade with the Lakers locks them in to a 6-8 seed (talent wise) with the 2nd highest payroll in the league…
Depends on cap if NY even has space.
NJ is a viable option if they sign no one this off-season and then renounce the rights next off-season to Brooke Lopez. One thing I find amusing is that NJ is going to sign Lopez to the big contract and all the sudden he has the same trade value. (which is the only way they can get Howard unless they basically sign no one but 1 year filler)
Boston – Would have Rondo and Pierce with no other pieces. Not bad pieces..but this is a 35 year old Pierce. If they re-sign big baby and jeff green they’ll get near capped out.
OKC by the by has 44 million in contract that year and Westbrook is due for an extension.
All this can change with a new CBA, but to me there’s not as many options as people believe. Hell we don’t even know if sign and trades will exist. So is it likely? Hell no…
Depends if Howard wants market or winning. Depends if sign and trades exist. I just think the media is taking a bit to much of “market only” determines where a player goes. Financial structure may prohibit it. Once a upon a time players would go to what team gave them the best chance to win.
Wow someone else that agrees with me on Dwight Howard!
Denver is his best option, and the best place for him to build a legacy. Denver also has THE BEST pieces to offer, especially given their recent owning of the draft.
Orlando could conceivably get:
Faired/Hamilton/Gallinari/Mosgov/Kouf + 3 first round picks in the next 2 years
+ give up Gil’s bloated contract. They suck royally next year, but position themselves nicely for the 2012 draft, which figures to be very strong.
Denver was basically a 50 win team without the players they are giving up… AND THEY’D ADD DWIGHT HOWARD… also Gil but he sucks. Dwight becomes the de-facto alpha on this team, something that wouldn’t be the case in LA. Talent-wise, Denver can still trot out a lineup of:
Lawson/Miller/Arenas
Aflalo/Smith/Arenas
Chandler/Smith
Nene/Martin
Howard/Bird
That lineup becomes the favorite in the West, and the jump in wins will give Dwight his MVPs, and adds to his legacy.
The bottom line is that Denver can offer the most, but they might not want to take on a contract like Gil’s in order to add Dwight..
That is a great lineup that will never happen
Even if they manage to sign Nene, and even if they somehow traded for Howard, there is no way they are resigning Martin, Chandler, and J.R.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Disagree
There is no way that Martin, Chandler, or Smith would leave that team.
That team doesn't exist
They will be signing with the current team. Kmart and J.R. are almost certainly going to sign elsewhere, and Chandler will try. Kmart wants to play for a contender, indications are Dallas, which Denver most certainly is not at this point. J.R. is pissed at Karl and will only return to Denver if no one else offers an acceptable contract.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
When I said THAT TEAM
I meant a team with Dwight Howard. KMart doesn’t leave that team because they contend. Same for JR and Chandler. There’s an allure to going deep in the playoffs, you know.
except
they are free agents now. Even optimistically speaking, Orlando won’t trade howard until close to the trade deadline. By then, J.R. and Kmart are long gone.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions
We'd have to restructure our team around Dwight...
In order to succeed with Dwight you need an inside / out game and our team isn’t built like that…
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Great point
Another guy he absolutely destroys is Dirk – but then Karl usually takes him off him
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
On a side note
This is seriously one of the most crucial moments. With Nene you can build a championship team, he may not be the all-star. But every team would be jumping all over each other to get him. You’re still pieces away but he can be a main cog.
If we don’t resign him, it almost gets to the point you have to try and jump in to the lottery next year for hope of getting out of that 40-50 win range. Being the new age Portland team is not an ideal place to be.
Also, he was probably the most important reason why our team didn't drop off
After the Melo trade – a significant amount of our offense was facilitated through him
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Great point
Nene will never be your go-to guy, but he’s a valuable power forward for a playoff team.
I love Nene
and I hate him.
I love him because he outperforms most centers in the league not named Howard, Noah, Horford, or Chandler.
I hate him because he is talented enough to have people asking if him or D Howard are better?
IF he resigns and IF Koufos or Moz emerge as a legit center, I think Nene will flourish as a PF.
However, Nene, as he currently plays, will not take a team to a championship. He is too timid and emotional. I really hope that we do not overpay for him. If we can keep him around 10-12 million a year, then awesome. 13 maybe. If someone wants to give him 14-16 million a year, then bring on the great white front court (Moz, Gallo, Koufos, Bird)…that scares me a bit also.
www.sweatervestwednesday.com
Remember the Utah Playoff?
Where Nene was totally outplayed by that stiff from Russia and the infamous Melo quote
“I can’t beat Utah alone”. Nene disappears in big games. To pay him more than he’s making now is not a good investment in my opinion.
Ehhh..I think you saw something different then I
Chauncey was seriously outplayed by Deron Williams allowing penetration and then getting to the open man on the penetration. I never saw that Russian get anything but open looks with Nene rotating to cover the dribble penetration. The guy that ‘kills you’ is more often then not the man they’re on.
This was what I could not stand about Dantley, his inability to adapt to the game. Chauncey was more of a offensive threat but the reason we owned Utah through that season was that Lawson killed Deron’s ability to penetrate (he got to the spot almost always faster then Deron). Deron got by Chauncey at will. Nene got hurt in game 5 I believe and that sealed the fate for us. Did he carry his weight? No… But he was not the reason we lost. To me it was specifically not identifying Chauncey not holding his own against Deron.
Each playoff series I’ve seen always has teams doubling the post player against us, either Melo or Nene. Karl forgot to teach guys how to go down the lane properly.
The Nuggets are at a crossroads
they have to decide what kind of team they are. They backed themselves into a corner by re-signing Karl so they committed to fielding a winning team. Nene isn’t a great player by any means, but he is good. Having an anchor at the 4 or 5 position is key. Losing that, sadly, the Nuggets are a officially a rebuilding team.
Also, this is going to be proof at how committed the Nuggets are to spending what it takes to win. If the difference in salary is just a million dollars (the Nuggets payroll is already 30 million under the owner proposed cap without re-signing Chandler, Smith and Kenyon) then it may reflect badly on the organization. They have to walk the tightrope and make it seem like they are putting a good faith effort in to signing Nene.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 12:18 PM MDT reply actions
Salaries are right here
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm
The rookie contracts will be a blip on the radar because they won’t be more than 1.2 million per year
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Where I always go for salaries
Some things to remember. As it stands a qualifying over counts double against your cap. I.E. Chandler and Affalo count almost 6 million against our cap if we extend the QO.
Gallinari has a 11 mil cap hit next year. I hope we sign him to an extension before that off-season (depends what he does but as it stands he’s more of 6-8 range.)
It does not show guaranteed vs non-guaranteed amounts. I.E. Harrington has two more years of guaranteed money before it goes down to 50% guaranteed. I think his money goes to signing lawson in 13/14 season.
Understood
If we lose Nene for nothing….yikes. Look at that salary gap.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Agreed
Why they want to re-sign him he can be a critical piece of the team and it gets them near the cap floor. You don’t want to have to do what NJ and sign Petro and Outlaw to questionable deals just to make it to that number.
I think we’ll see the Nugs going in to the season under the cap this year. Wouldn’t expect Miller to be back unless you see him come down to the 3-4 range next year.
I hate large gaps between cap floors and ceilings
The theory has always been, give a team an excuse not to spend money and they will take it. I’m not as convinced as you are that the Nuggets won’t hover at a cap floor for an extended period. If I was an Avs fan I’d be going nuts that they are 14 million below the cap floor now. There may be logical and well thought out reasons for it…it just sends a really bad signal to fans…particularly when you are asking them to pay inflated ticket prices for a crappy product.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
The only problem with a high floor
is that bad teams have to give ridiculous money to mediocre players. Say someone offers Nene $15 million+ and the nuggs won’t match it. There is a real possibility they couldn’t attract anyone deserving of a large salary and would be forced to give a Harrington type player huge money to get to the floor.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Lets face it
until the Nuggets start winning championships (ala San Antonio) they will have overpay even with a cap. That goes more toward how the NBA is marketed than anything else. You just have to make sure that money is accounted for.
The Thunder are one of the few examples in NBA history of a team building almost exclusively through the draft. Since the Lottery is a crap shoot in the first place it is exceptionally hard to find that difference making player every year even with superb scouting. The Spurs were fortunate to have David Robinson in tow for their first two championships which made it easier to bring Tim Duncan along. The Thunder had no one and were quite fortunate … lucky even.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions
So if the Nuggets end up rebuilding (and if they lose Nene they will)
then we have to pray that the Nuggets get a high pick and then…go slow. I’m more resigned to this than anything else right now. The Nuggets will most likely have alot of cap room for a long time and I wouldn’t expect them to be in any rush to spend it if Nene goes…
If he stays….look for them to have a more proactive attitude.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
overpay yes...
But just because you have money doesn’t mean you should use it. An example we could get Biedrins for Mozgov. At this stage Mozgov has not shown enough to say that isn’t an upgrade. But if you take 3 million to 9 million you’ll have to trim the fat somewhere.
Keep what guys you can within a price range that make sense with your overall plan (should be to win a chamionship). Then figure out how to make it work. We may be going on the cheap on a few places because we’re paying our 8th man nearly 7 million a year. Why I hated the contract when we signed Harrington. Off-set that by gambling on rookies at 1 mil a year.
Right now the team is excellently constructed for just needing a star big man.
beidrins can't make a 2 footer and shoots 50% fts
He’s absolutely NOT an upgrade over Mosgov, but I’ll give you that his D is pretty good
When his back isn't messed up
DRAFT PURDUE POWER FORWARD!!! THERE IS NO OTHER!!!
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 29, 2011 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Just my opinion
If the Nuggets keep Nene they will make a run at Howard.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Mine as well
Think we may lose Chandler to make it happen. Unless we can somehow keep Affalo-Chandler-Nene for under 26 million average salary. Ideally you keep Affalo and Nene for about 18-19 million.You also have to extend Gallanari and not have him be a QO.
Assuming rules stay the same.
Every team would make their pitch
Just like NY, NJ, Chicago, and the rest made offers to Lebron. They’ve already leaked the cities that Howard is interest in, and surprise, surprise, Denver isn’t on the list.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes...Like every list I've seen lately
“They only want to go to LA, NY, Chicago, Boston or Dallas” – Quote every sportswritter. Heard same thing for Lebron, Wade, Melo, CP3, Howard, Deron Williams. Only so many people can go to these places.
NY – Has some money but may not be max. Depends on the cap fall. My guess is if they get max money they go after CP3 to have ball control. More then likely they have 11 million and have 0 bench.
Chicago as just over the cap right now. Rose is due for an extension next off-season. So yeah they may dump salary to try and avoid tax. Owner avoided it even with Jordan on the team.
Dallas with signing Chandler will be at the cap again.
LA Lakers – Still have nearly 60 million locked through 2014-2015.
LA Clippers – Could go after him if they wanted to not pay their young players soon. Griffen in 2 years… Gordon next year. Andre Jordan this year.
Keep in mind that none of them can afford to pay them. So Orlando has to be the one trading. Then it becomes what pieces can they trade. Chicago has Noah and Deng! Except Orlando would have 35 win team and 90 million in payroll.
LA can give Bynum and Odom! Except you might get to 40ish wins with that team and again a 90 million payroll.
Boston would be a player – But Rondo and an aging Pierce hard to be excited for a core going forward.
NJ Nets – 36.5 Mil dedicated to contracts in that year. They would have to add a QO to Lopez or sign him. He’s likely to be a 10-12 range. They still want to resign Humphries. I think their cap space is gone by next year. Will Orlando take Lopez at new contract?
I could be entirely wrong but without expiring contracts and talent, why would you trade for equal salary? More and more I think he gets to 2012 free agency. Denver may have teh combination of pieces especially if he hits free agency.
Ha, I posted my comment before I read yours
If you’re a small market team, your only option is to build through the draft, which is arguably a sounder strategy anyways
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
In that case you'd have to commit to building through the draft and signing undervalued players
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
The large gaps do suck. As an Avs fan i wanted them to make moves last off-season. Then I looked at the talent and realized they would have to overpay for some very medicore players. I was kind of glad they didn’t.
This year they have a huge need at goalie and there is a star talent. Makes to much sense not to make the move.
For this very reason I’m opposed to throwing 12 million a year on a player like Marc Gasol. Lets say you get yourself to a 3rd-4th seed team with overpaying, you’ve now locked yourself in there. Building young players with star players is the only workable model unless you want to just outspend everyone (see Boston, LA, Dallas, Orlando). Then you have your window before you have to try it all over again.
Miami having to trade all those picks in the sign and trades may be their hinderance going forward. That and I have 0% faith that they stay this healthy for 3-4 years.
You nailed it
Overpaying for mediocre talent is the surest way to kill a franchise. If you’re going to overpay, overpay a rookie or a superstar – can’t overpay just because you can’t get anyone.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Thats incorrect
A qualifying offer is only used as a cap hold if it is the greater amount between itself and two other scenarios which would be overly complicated to try and explain in a comment.
Here is the explanation, look at #31
In any case, Chandler and Afflalo’s cap holds are right around 5 mil
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
The Clock is Ticking
If we do sign Nene, please lets move him to PF – let Mozgof, Koufous and Birdman play Center. Nene should shine at PF if he asserts himself.
Again agreed..
Why I hated the injury issues we had. If you had Camby, Kenyon, and Nene healthy for one year together it would’ve been an exceptional front court. Liked the idea of a Nene-Camby front court. Never really happend.
Comment on Kroenke
When he rebuilds he goes cheap (see current Avs and see Nuggets 03). If we trend towards re-building expect to see a dump or two. I believe both Avs and Nuggets will pay for viable talent. With the Kenyon signing and the signings of the Avs Ryan Smith and Scott Hannan. Paying for marginal upgrades is something I doubt we see. Even the AI trade proof to not go on the cheap.
Why Wark was booted was he tried to sign marginal upgrade of Harrington.
I’m hoping that the Avs sign Vokoun so they prove that they will pay for talent and my hypothesis of not overpaying for slight upgrades. I think Denver stands hard fast with their number, he’ll get it offered somewhere else. Up to him if he chooses us.
Again why I think Howard trade makes the most sense. Then again I have no special knowledge of what Howard wants. I just think winning has prescedent to market and Melo was the exception. If that’s not the case expect to see some 35-47 win teams in both conferences making the playoffs.
And it would be idiotic
To not try and land Howard. I don’t care what people say or assume what he wants, the reward of bringing him here would outweigh any doubt.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
Yep...
He’s the perfect missing piece. If you can somehow keep Nene and bring in Howard you have the best defensive frotn court in the league. Solid inside out game. Solid pentratration with Miller/Lawson. Good spot up shooters with Gallo, Chandler (assuming he’s kept), Affalo, and hopefully Hamilton. Nene/Howard are a perfect compliment to each other (and I don’t buy that Howard has a solid post game..he has one move and then just wants to score more).
All that said, market vs winning. The Miami trio was the market happen to be desirable but the only team that could pull it off was Miami. Melo just wanted NY and bright lights. People have turned this in to that now means that only stars will ever go to Boston, NY, LA, Chicago, and oddily enough Dallas.
Something to point out about the clippers in LA, they have some room but the year after Griffen is do for a contract extension and this year they’ll try to retain Andre Jordan. Next year sign Eric Gordon to an extension. I’d be stunned and amazed if they were ever a luxury tax team. Why I don’t see them making that splash unless they make a trade.
We’d give him the best chance to win. Who knows if that’ll be enough. But might as well swing for the fences.
All for the optimism
But Howard is not signing in Denver. Even before we got Melo’d, it was evident that free agents have no desire to come to Denver. The reason Harrington got the contract he did is because all the other players, over several years, that Denver tried to sign went elsewhere.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 12:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Always the pessimist.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Disagree..
What other free agents did we covet that we missed out on? All I recall is the Clippers saving us from the mistake that was Magette. We passed on Arenas because we thought the contract was not Please don’t mention when Kobe visited us…He had 0 intention of moving from LA.
MLE players not with-standing because if they draw that contract it was just where and not a money question. All things being equal we hadn’t been a true championship team.
Think you’re making a generalization on perception when there hasn’t been oppertunity.
Nope
There were numerous veteran bigs that Denver tried to sign that ended up going places like Dallas over several years.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions
The difference is
That Howard coming to Denver accomplishes this for him:
1) He goes to an immediate contender… even a favorite
2) He’ does this as the Alpha Dog, which means MVP awards for him
3) The stigma of joining a powerhouse, or riding Shaq’s coat tails, is crushed because he’s leaving for a small market team.
4) Not only is his new team a contender, but they are YOUNG.
NO team can offer that to Dwight right now, not the Lakers, not the Nyets, not the Knicks….
also...
Jr, KMart, Chandler, and most importantly Nene are MUCH more likely to sign if Denver lands Dwight. That would be a hard team to leave. This is all dependent on the CBA of course.
They almost broke the bank to get a very overrated Allen Iverson, why not do the same for the second (maybe first) best player in the NBA?
You are ignoring
the fact that NBA players don’t want to live here. The players aren’t considering any of the things you listed. They are considering where they would like to live first, and who they would like to play with second. If things like your list were considerations, Wade or Lebron would be in Chicago with a title right now.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions
that makes no sense
No MLE players are going where they want to live. At worst, they are going to the city where they can get the most money.
When multiple teams are all offering the full MLE
they choose where they want to live. Last season alone, Denver made offers to Jermaine Oneal and Udonis Haslem before they chose the Celtics and Miami over Denver.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Right, and this had nothing to do with the fact
That Boston and Miami had better teams with more stability..
riiiiiiight
You just said they only choose on money
I’m saying that Denver is low on the list of desireable cities. Now you are backing up that point.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
In complete fairness
You have absolutely no idea what NBA players want and or where they want to live. To say otherwise is just egotistical
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
Intresting
I think the Miami trio went to Miami because of the big three idea, the fact it had Miami beach was secondary.
Chicago had descent pieces but they didn’t know what Rose would do this season. Signing Boozer put them in that median of teams going in to the season. I think Chicago over achieved on working hard.
Are we those cities? No we aren’t…but those other cities may not have the luxury of signing them. Then why does the star player do? Sign for the min to play for the Lakers?
Only when they're old and ringless.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 29, 2011 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
The biggest problem...
And CU has a huge problem with this – is Denver and Colorado aren’t considered a place that’s friendly to minorities.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
I don't think there is any solid evidence to back that statement up
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
The big thing you guys are failing to recognize
Is how often do big free agents actually switch teams? Lost in all this no one wants to come to Denver talk, no one really wants to go anywhere but NY, LA, and Miami.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
If Nene hits FA he's gone
Sign him right now (12 mil/year I think is reasonable) and move on to the RFA. If there’s a big gap in what the team wants and he wants I’d say come to terms, then shop him during the season (if he’s underperforming his contract)
With Nene being a UFA I don’t think the Poison Pill Provision applies to the cap, but please correct me if I’m wrong
MOZGOD Member #35
I love Nene, favorite player
I would love to sign him. He also pisses me off because he has so much talent and sometimes just disappears from the game. He can dominate at the PF so if we can get him we should because he is my favorite player and no other reasoning.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
We have till midnight tomorrow to find out.
God….too many negative deadlines in the NBA right now. :(
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Is the cba really a deadline?
I mean does anyone out there really believe they are going to get a deal hammered out by then? Does anybody really think we will avoid a lockout? You can make any argument that no games will be missed sure, but the rest of this deadline talk is just an ESPN charade to garner ratings in a slow sports period
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
The deadline will come and go, you're right
DRAFT PURDUE POWER FORWARD!!! THERE IS NO OTHER!!!
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 30, 2011 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Nene is way more valuable than people think
Chantech has it right. He is an elite big man because of his polished post game and ability to command double teams. Additionally, he is a great 1 on 1 defender.
Also, why is Feinstein not convinced about Lawson being the PG of the future? I mean Barea showed a small, fast PG can do plenty of damage in the playoffs. Well Feinstein did say the Cavs would do well last season, so I won’t put too much stock in his predictions.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Jun 29, 2011 1:14 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
I've said this before regarding nene
if we manage to fall ass-backwards into a great situation with a talented young team and loads of cap space (and this is my interpretation of the melo trade), and then squander it because Stan decides to go cheap, my bitterness will be palpable for miles around. Trees in my neighborhood will die from the rage emanating from me.
by Rainbow skyline on Jun 29, 2011 1:27 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
wow
Trees in my neighborhood will die from the rage emanating from me
That’s some serious rage
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions
Would agree
But how do you feel if Nene signs somewhere for lets say 16 million a year (figuring increases)? It hurts us badly but signing him to that might be a key to medicority without some luck.
I’ll hold my judgement until I see the number if Kroenke was to blame. If he signs for 13 somewhere then I’ll be a lot more aggitated.
if nene is asking for 15m+ and walks,
then I wouldn’t really be mad at nugs management-that just means nene doesn’t really want to stay.
by Rainbow skyline on Jun 29, 2011 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Stan won't go cheap
It will make his son look bad as a GM. Believe me, it is good to have Kroenke JR. running things. If he wants something done it will happen.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Jun 29, 2011 1:34 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I have a feeling you're right
DRAFT PURDUE POWER FORWARD!!! THERE IS NO OTHER!!!
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 29, 2011 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions
if we lose Nene I'm going to be fucking pissed
that on top of JR and Kmart means this entire era of Nuggets bball is over and we’ll be back to late 90s/early 00s with a team full of euro-stiffs praying that a fucking ping pong ball falls. FUCK THAT.
The latest "era" of the Nuggets left with Melo
This is a new era, with or without Nene. JR is gone. Kmart is gone too.
yea second that
I don’t want to be the Golden State Warriors
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Jun 29, 2011 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Also if the NBA..
Comes out with an amnesty clause that allows teams to wipe out cap impact, I’ll be pissed. I find it disturbing that teams could work out their mistakes that way and allow for the whole market dynamic and years of planning to be impacted.
I can guarantee you that won't happen
In fact…if the players lower their share of the BRI to around 50% we may not see a cap at all.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions
JR says alot of things on twitter
seriously….A LOT of things
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
JR is a dumbass (kind of like my brother)
but lovable kind that says the first thing that comes into his mind.
MOZGOD Member #35
Ty just posted how
Him and Ill Will are working out with Steve Hess. Interesting.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
So is Kenyon apparently
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 2:03 PM MDT up reply actions
So if we let Nene walk and re-sign KMart
How would our team look with a starting front court of K-Mart and Mozgov with Gallo, AAA, and Ty filling in the rest?
MOZGOD Member #35
mediocre
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 29, 2011 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions
So you're saying Nene is the one that makes a 50 win team
and without him we’re a lottery team?
-Save the New Nuggets, re-sign everyone.
-Gallinari fan socio del club dal 2011
by NotWorriedAboutNuggets on Jun 29, 2011 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions
I'd say that...
Just because he changes the dynamic of our team. I like Ty but he doesn’t create shots for others. Nene does.
Look at this team…
Lawson/Miller
Affalo/Hamilton/Forbes
Gallo/Chandler(perhaps)
Kmart/Faried/Harrington
Mozgov/Birdman/Koufus
Deep..solid defense. But inept offnesively. Spacing would be horrible. Think of 3 jump shooters with no one to create an open shot except on occasion Lawson.
At the end of the season this year most of our shots came off nice passes.
With good passing and unselfish play combined with very solid defense you don’t need a bunch of players that can create their own shots. But for arguments sake: Miller, Lawson, Hamilton, and on a very good night Forbes and Harrington can create their own shots. That doesn’t include Chandler and Smith if either of them stay.
-Save the New Nuggets, re-sign everyone.
-Gallinari fan socio del club dal 2011
by NotWorriedAboutNuggets on Jun 29, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
Would be bad
35-40 win team. I like Kmart but right now it doesn’t fit with the diferent pieces. I think Harrington took Kmarts money on that front.
Would anyone here trade a lottery protected 2012 1st with harrington to dump him?
There is no need to give any assets to get rid of Harringtons contract
it is a terrible idea. Look at New York last year – they gave away draft picks to houston to move a bad contract. Then they didn’t have any draft picks available when it came time to trade for Anthony. At a minimum it caused them many more problems than necessary, and it could have caused Denver to trade him somewhere else. Even if Harrington is a bad contract (which it isn’t, really), you there is no advantage to moving him prior to there being a need. If you need to get rid of Harrington to make a trade for another player, you do it then. Until then, you keep all of your assets so you have them if something unanticipated comes up.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Pretty sure KMart has been our starting PF for quite a while now.
If Mozgov can be the center we all think (hope) he can be and with our ridiculously deep bench not to mention the FA(‘s) we could get with Nene’s salary off the books then I don’t think we lose a step losing Nene. If we lost both KMart and Nene we would be in trouble since we would probably have to start Gallo at PF, Chandler at SF, and AAA at SG. We’d lose a lot of depth.
-Save the New Nuggets, re-sign everyone.
-Gallinari fan socio del club dal 2011
by NotWorriedAboutNuggets on Jun 29, 2011 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe
it is asking a lot to count on a rookie low first round pick to start out of the gate. Much more likely that Harrington, Gallo, or Chandler would be the starter.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions
kmart and moz
would be a bottom 5 starting front court in the nba.
by Rainbow skyline on Jun 29, 2011 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
While Nene and Moz
Could be a top 5 starting frontcourt if Moz plays to his potential (which he showed in te Lakers game and could have showed in the playoffs if that idiot Collison didn’t flop).
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Jun 29, 2011 3:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Soft
Nene is too soft. 50 mil? He must be out of his mind.
Seriously people Nene was probably our beat player
Even when Melo was around. Pop once stated he would always game plan for Nene over Melo b/c he knew the offense runs through Nene.
I am glad there are a few people who realize his worth, but he is an elite center and worth close to max value. Without him we are crap, you don’t get big guys who are a post presence that often, and the fact that we are Denver means we have to pay him more than he is worth. If the Nugs want to win they will re-sign Nene no matter the cost and figure out the other guys later.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Jun 29, 2011 3:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
From that San Antonio series years back
Nene started demolishing the team and you saw double teams to Nene as he got the ball. We failed to adjust and quickly lost the next 4. They let Bruce Bowen play Melo straight up.
Wish I could find the clip of Nene throwing down Horry followed by him being flipped over as he tried to jump. Then Karl’s inability to create offensive moment destroyed us (or teh players, either way it didn’t happen).
yea i can't believe how underappreciated he is
i’m just glad people have finally stopped labeling him as injury prone.
Great interview with Chauncey from Tomasson
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/tomasson/2011/06/29/billups-wants-more-team-not-more-stars/
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
Thanks for sharing. Great article!
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Jun 30, 2011 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Anyone think there is a chance he doesn't opt out?
Would be suprised but it’s also not a forgone conclusion that it helps him either way.
At this point
it would only be if the nuggets agreed to his asking price, and perhaps not even then. His agent has certainly had discussions with other teams at this point and has a pretty good idea of what other teams will offer. Nene already probably knows the other cities in play and how much his new contract will be.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 29, 2011 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions
The more I think about it
the more I think we should sign and trade Nene, think about it, the man is a valuable asset to any team right now looking to contend for a title, and yes Denver has some pretty good players, but the problem is that all of those pretty good players are YOUNG. Most of our players are under 25 and it is a young core of guys trying to mold in together to form a solid contender, but that won’t be for another 4-5 years when all of our young upswing players enter their prime, and when that happens Nene will be thinking about retirement. I keep wondering what exactly Nene does for this team, and he does bring a lot to the table but not for a young team like ours, I would trade him for more young assets, I just think we are wasting his talent by being here and we are wasting a chance to become a better team in the future with him with us.
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
Welcome back Andre Miller!
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
I know we should be loyal
and I love Nene
But that’s what I would do.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 4:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be completely against it
but I REALLY want to see Nene at the 4, and I would hate to see another team utilize him that way
I think it would be interesting to see him at PF
But if the deal doesn’t happen by Thursday then I say fuck’em.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Jun 29, 2011 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions
Hmmm
Marc Gasol/Moz/Kouf
Faried/Harrington/Chandler
Gallo/Chandler/Hamilton
Afflalo/Uh…
Lawson/Miller
Not bad for a young core, but still needs some fat trimmed if you know what I mean.
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
Welcome back Andre Miller!
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
Harrington could use liposuction
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
Welcome back Andre Miller!
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
because they were one game away from the WCF last year
and Nene is an upgrade to Gasol.
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
Welcome back Andre Miller!
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
Right, Nene is better
so why trade him? Memphis isn’t much closer to glory than the Nuggets and are about just as young.
because Gasol is younger than Nene
so Gasol would be a part of the young core, while Nene is in his prime, I dunno, it wasn’t my idea in the first place.
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
Welcome back Andre Miller!
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
I understand that reasoning
just not why Memphis would think any different. Plus I don’t agree that’s a good idea but whateva.
Nene
probably the player who has his fallacies most blown out of proportion and his abilities most understated by fans in Denver. That is all…
you're absolutely right
and it’s because he has never quite played up to his talent. while that is frustrating, it shouldn’t override the fact that he’s one of the better big men in the league.
by Rainbow skyline on Jun 29, 2011 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions
But that is based off speculation, as with JR
maybe this is just where his talents peak and we have to accept it. I agree more could be there but some guys just can’t bring it all 4 quarters, I’d say that;s Nene’s biggest issue. That’s why having so much backup will be nice.
Signing Dwight Howard?
You all must be out your damn minds.
Sign Nene but what you see is what you get. He isn’t going to “figure it out,” especially with GK playing him out of position.
In other news is anyone else completely frustrated with pro sports. The lockouts and all the whining is lowering my interest level. Also, it’s summer so my interest in televised sports wains as is but the NBA needs to get their shit together because there aren’t a lot of die hard fans and a lockout isn’t going to help that number.
+1 "Signing Dwight Howard? You all must be out your damn minds."
i love the crazy talk, and would jizz in my pants over howard in denver, but that is fucking crazy talk.
by calvin brodus on Jun 29, 2011 11:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Nene is opting out
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_18380674
I don’t get it. We didn’t show him loyalty? He’s not showing any either.
Loyalty...
You mean when the Nugs paid him 60 mil to play 1 or 2 full seasons. I’m not sure they can replace his career year of 14 and 7.
Show me one small market team
Just one, who has risen to championship contending status by using a load of role players and signing guys who are just good. Meanwhile never obtaining high draft picks or cap space.
I love Nene and I can’t imagine him in another teams uni, but we have got to face the facts here. Our only hope is a complete rebuild. This team needs to be gutted, needs to bottom out and start over. Otherwise we are looking at being a 4-6 seed (at best) and early exits from the playoffs for the next 5 years
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
I think thats bull
You never know what can happen. We field a team, they COULD win it all. The odds may be stacked against us but nobody can see five years in the future.
by InboundingLobPass on Jun 30, 2011 1:21 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
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