Give me reasons to like the draft...
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 8:01 AM MDT
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
Email
PrintI intensely dislike the NBA Draft. Seriously, but hey - it could be worse, there could be a lockout-
...nevermind.
Imagine, if you will, a conversation between - let's say Steve and Rick - a couple members of an NBA front office on draft night.
Steve, "So, we have the number three pick ..."
Rick, "Yep, should get a good player ... I think. We have our eye on this young cat. Power forward."
Steve, "Oh yeah! How did he look at our pre-draft workout?"
Rick, "Great, except he has no idea how to use his feet."
Steve, "It's ok, give him some time in the league and he will improve..."
Rick, "Sure thing. Oh ... wait. I have a couple notes from our development team. Looks like our player also has no basket awareness, commits tons of fouls, is slow, jumps at every pump fake - and here's a note from his college coach saying that he thinks our player needs to work ... on his short game...what?"
Steve, "Must be a typo."
Rick, "Yeah."
Steve, "Look, we all know it's foolish to expect that every player can come in an make a difference right from the start. It takes time. Look ... our player is what? 19 years old? From what our scouts are saying it will take a good five seasons to see his full potential."
Rick, "Holy sh*t! Why are we selecting him third then?"
Steve, "Upside."
Rick, "Right ... upside"
Steve, "Remember, he dominated at the high school level ..."
Being a Nuggets fan since the age of 7, I have learned a couple of concrete facts. First, unless Denver has a certified superstar, the national media will dismiss them (even in the days of Alex English that was the pattern). Second, the NBA draft is excruciating for Nuggets fans and will most likely be a fruitless endeavor.
Since I've been watching the Nuggets I've seen botched drafts: blown picks like Tony "El Busto" Battie and the infamous Tskita (whom we all can remember from his shortened name). I've seen the Nuggets fail to to enter the draft with a trade when they were clearly a desperate team (2010) and I've seen the Nuggets trade picks like they were used laundry. I've seen role players drafted too high and star players passed on in favor of duds. I've also seen some luck (Dikembe Mutumbo in 1991 and Carmelo Anthony in 2003) and some nice coups (Nene Hilario in 2002 and Ty Lawson in 2009), but overall the Nuggets draft history leaves something to be desired.
I'm sorry, but the draft makes me cynical. I (kinda) hate it to be honest. Aside from being a Nuggets fan, my disappointment with the NBA draft stems from the league's very poor track record of actual player development. You see, there's part of me that believes that if the NBA spent nearly as much time investing money in a true developmental league (the current set up - the D-League - is a joke) as they do complaining about busts and player salaries we would have greatly reduced instances of teams dramatically flaming out with high draft picks with "potential" and "high ceilings". If there was a true minor league in the NBA - then players could be sent to it to, you know, actually develop.
That, my friends, is the crux of my issue with the draft. It is set up to be "boom or bust" in the extreme, meanwhile in weak drafts, such as this year, there is not the guaranteed franchise changing player that teams need to turn their team around (meanwhile, next year's draft is already being regarded as stacked). So, if you have the misfortune of being a rebuilding team right now (hello Cleveland, Minnesota, Utah, Toronto, Washington, etc.) ... there's always next year. There again, you are left to the whim of the draft lottery - so there's no guarantee you will get such a dynamic player the following season either (ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nuggets of the 1990's).
In a sense, I suppose, the Nuggets could, ironically, be saved by the very thing that cursed them earlier in the decade and the last part of the 90's. European/South American players could potentially be diamonds in the rough. Yet, there are no guarantees. So called "Euros" get more substantive development in their various round robin leagues and in their professional circuit, but there's nothing concrete to point to grab the sure things ... unless of course you have the advanced scouting of the Spurs.
I am fully aware that there are members of this blog who love the draft (Nate and Andy to name a few). Those who follow it intensely, and know quite a bit more than I do about the inner-workings of the process. Please don't take this as a slam to you, just understand that as a long time Nuggets fan it's excruciatingly hard to get excited for the Jerome Lanes of the world.
So, my fellow Stiffs - should I be excited about the draft next week? Sway me with your comments and I will listen, because I'd rather be eager for the draft instead of wanting to poke my eyes out with a red-hot fireplace poker at the mention of it.
Give me hope Nuggets fans!
mortonagency@juno.com
The Black Crowes - Could I've Been So Blind (via ssllaasshh)
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Wow that poll result is not what I thought it would be.
Granted i’m a newer denver fan going back about 8 ish years now and i’m very excited to see how this team develops without melo. But I’m more looking forward to FA than the draft. As stated in the story denver does not draft well normally and this year with one pick late in the first round we will get some kid i have never heard of and he will float around and than go to another team.
by TENNESSEETITANS on Jun 17, 2011 8:51 AM MDT reply actions
see i think there should be another choice.
Im excited cause i love the hope of a new dynamic to our team, but im very prepared to be disappointed, we always suck in the draft.
(hopefully a scouting raised GM will help, but i doubt it)
In short, Im excited even though i expect them to mess it up.
Not to worry
I think Ujiri will do a fine job.
Then Karl will screw it up with his “coaching”.
Just don’t expect a winning season next year, and you won’t be disappointed.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 9:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Are you saying that
Chaunce Billups should be paying to better the D-league? Because he’s the only person I’ve ever heard of going to a WNBA game.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 17, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
*Chauncey
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 17, 2011 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions
All snark aside,
I actually liked watching WNBA games the couple that I attended. It’s exciting in a different kind of way. They play the game the RIGHT way. Unfortunately, I can see how people would find it boring as well.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Raise the rim to 12 feet
and the NBA would be exactly like the WNBA.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
this is what my has said for years - though he's not a huge NBA fan
Calls many of the players “freaks” and they should raise the basket higher.
by InboundingLobPass on Jun 17, 2011 4:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
And it will never happen
no one watches the WNBA because good fundamentals are boring to watch.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, that's true
But as a basketball junkie (both fan of professional and likes to play on the courts) it’s pretty amazing to watch just how fundamentally sound the women are, not to mention how much better than me they are.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Yeah, I wasn’t criticizing the product. Unfortunately it just doesn’t have the fan support it needs. It seems like Stern’s stubbornness has been keeping the league afloat. I figure a minor league would draw at least as much support as the WNBA doesn, and would provide the added benefit of developing talent for the NBA teams. It just appears that it would be a better use of the NBA’s resources.
I feel your pain
but lest we forget these mistakes were made by FO’s of old. I know that its hard to see a difference maker falling to us at 22 but crazier things have happened. I say lets see how the draft (and the moves we make) pan out. This is a great “proving ground” for the FO and our scouting department (not that they need it because I believe in them for the moves they made at the deadline)
I think Denver is about 50/50 on the draft
Which is about par for any team not named the Spurs. Utah also seems to do a nice job.
Remember, one guy not mentioned is Denver’s pick of Jameer Nelson at what, 20? He was promptly traded but that was a nice pick and he should have been kept.
I hate it when teams that have obvious needs (i.e. Denver) throw away picks. It is a great way to lower expectations for the next year.
Also Jarret Jack wasn't bad either
We got him at 22, but of course, traded him as well.
by GoldenNugget on Jun 17, 2011 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn't include Jack because he was traded for, I think, Kleiza
…so it wasn’t a throw away like Nelson…but you are right, that wasn’t a bad pick.
No Way We Trade The Pick This Year
If anything we will be adding picks. These players will be under the new CBA whenever that is settled.
Yes I was screaming when Kiki traded Nelson. He was college player of the year and first team all American
Same as the PPF (first team AA). Same as Shane B (first team AA). When these guys from first team AA are on the board when you draft, it is simple. YOU DRAFT THEN. This is not rocket science boys (and girls). Draft PPF!
I'm sorry, I got distracted there for a second. Who again do you think we should draft...?
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 17, 2011 2:46 PM MDT up reply actions
DRAFT PURUDE POWER FORWARD
:-p
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Odd
that his middle and last names are a position on the court. Is there another guy named Shawn Point Guard?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh and speaking of past FO's
how do you think Harrington feels about signing with Denver instead of Dallas?
He's happy
Denver offered the most money.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 10:49 AM MDT up reply actions
I'll glad play you Tuesday for a Hamburger today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ6xBaZ92uA
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Jun 18, 2011 2:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Managing Expectations
First , you have to look at the probability of finding a viable player…someone who can contribute. With a top five pick in a draft rich in talent you have a higher probability of finding a contributing player than with 22nd pick in a talent-thin draft.
Second. teams that are year-after-year contenders (top 4 seeds) give up on conventional wisdom and direct their scouts to finding diamonds in the dung. They focus on sleepers and welcome developing players. Year-after-year lottery teams rely on luck and conventional wisdom. Who has a better track record drafting late than San Antonio? Who has a worse track record drafting early than Minnesota?
Third, teams that enforce a diciplined ‘system’ of basketball run less risk of making a bad decision. Examples are the systems run by Popovich and Sloan, where the system makes the players plug-and-play. A player like Koufos can come into Sloan’s system and have some success, as opposed to Karl’s system which basically ‘Run and see what happens’. Karl’s system requires high basketball I.Q.s and alot of physical talent. so it’s harder to find players late in the draft. Unless they beat him over the head with talent, Karl sits rookies and avoids development . Then, maybe in their 2nd year (with a lot of injured players), he’ll toss them a few minutes.
For these kind of reasons, a team like Denver ends up with a bad track record in the draft. We give away draft picks, sell them, because we don;t have a system that benefits from drafted players, especially when we’re winning. When we’re losing we rely on luck and dumb moves from those who draft before us; and even then, will the talent that befalls us fit the system we put in place? Run and see what happens. Charge the paint and see what happens.
So, in answer to Jeffrey’s question, as long as the Nuggets keep out of the Lottery, and without big changes in how we scout and develop talent, let alone play basketball, our Draft pick is pretty much a bargaining chip to use to sweeten Trades. Meanwhile, San Antonio will draft Jeremy Tyler with a 29th pick and turn him into the next Tim Duncan. They already picked the next Dennis Rodman late in the draft last year, no?
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 10:37 AM MDT reply actions
+1
Your right in that the Nuggets system isn’t rookie friendly, and we will most likely find a way to F this up, however, I’m interested to see how Masai and Josh approach this draft. In years past we’ve had too many cooks in the kitchen, which led us to drafting nobodies like Julius Hodge, while giving up good players like Jameer Nelson and Jarrett Jack or how can we forget last summer when we “tried” to get into the draft via trade, but just could get in. It seems like our FO is on the same page for the first time in 8+ years. Not that this guarantees us a better shot at drafting a player who can actually play, but being on the same page can’t hurt. I’m not expecting anything big here, I just want to see if we will stay put at 22, or make a run for someone if they fall in the draft. Where the Nuggets will really improve this off-season will be via trade and free agency, although with the looks of the impending lockout, we might be waiting a while on that one…
Lemme fix that for you
A player like Koufos can come into Sloan’s system and have some success, as opposed to Karl’s lack of any system which basically ‘Run and see what happens’.
Good post, BTW.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 17, 2011 2:50 PM MDT up reply actions
By the way...
Our approach to the draft has improved in recent years. I read an article where we wanted Ty Lawson because he was one of the most efficient players to come out of school in a long time.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
I think the new Mgmt.
Will find a way to make rookies excel. It’s just nice to see the Nugget actually have a 1st round pick.
I think the player the Nuggets draft will play a lot next year (if there is a season…a BIG IF)
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Jun 18, 2011 2:08 AM MDT up reply actions
Jeff, you have to understand that we're operating under a new regim now
Bernie Bickerstaff (aka: the Godfather of Stiffs) is long gone. We’ve actually had really good management over the last seven years or so. Wark traded away more picks than he should have, but look at the team he assembled. He was simply trying to piece together a championship caliber squad. Ujiri has more than clearly displayed his adroitness with handling his position, both in Toronto where they drafted well while he was the assistant GM, and in Denver with the MeloDrama.You’re the resident optimist here right? You have to faith until proven otherwise. Just like in the legal system — innocent until proven guilty.
I have great confidence in Ujiri and Josh. I think we’ll hit this pick big time and get a guy who can contribute right off the bat.
I have no faith in the process itself
If the NBA spent more time on player development, teams with tighter budgets (like the Nuggets will have in the future) would have equal footing with those who can afford expensive free agents.
People point to the NHL as a model for the financial future of the NBA. The difference is, (on top of the NHL’s continuing money issues…which the hard cap did not solve) the NHL has a legit and well funded developmental system that consistently protects teams from the “high risk high reward” bs that the NBA does not.
If people take anything away from this article, it’s that I want people to understand that if the NBA want’s to “change” the model of it’s current system, a legit minor league would help greatly.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good point!
I was comparing the ‘name’ players we’re working out with Chad Ford’s ranking of available talent. Most of these guys will be gone way before we pick. Why invite them? Are they hoping one of them falls from grace (one or two always do) and they just want to be prepared? Or, are they planning on using Felton for a trade up? I guess we’ll see how crafty Ujiri really is, but it seems to me somethings afoot.
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 11:34 AM MDT up reply actions
At a minimum
you talk to guys now as a baseline for the future. You never know when a guy might become available via trade or free agency. Talking to them while you can just gives you more information going forward.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
Think Positive Jeff!
Remember when Melo was traded you said something to the effect that the Nuggets would be a shell of what they were and actually we were better thanks to Ujiri and Josh making a great trade. We could get a decent player out of this draft.
Jeff's haunted by the Ghosts of Drafts Past
1998 Draft:
Nuggets have the 3 pick.
They pass on:
4. Antawn Jamison
5. Vince Carter
6. Robert Traylor
7.Jason Williams
8. Larry Hughes
9. Dirk Nowitzki
10. Paul Pierce
To take (drumbeat please) Raef LaFrentz…
Who;s greatest accomplishment resides in being the player who got the most money for not playing after he retired
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 2:20 PM MDT up reply actions
That is BECAUSE Dan Issel
though LaFrentz was the secondly coming of himself….Ooops!!!!
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Jun 18, 2011 2:10 AM MDT up reply actions
How is this possible
SI released the top 50 earners among athletes. Tiger Woods was #1 with $62 million last year. That makes some sense, in spite of his bad pr. Phil Mickelson is second with $61 million. Lejackass third at $44 million. Peyton Manning $38 million.
How is it possible that the top spots are both golfers, and that they both make almost 50% more than the third place person? How does Phil Mickelson rate $57 million in endorsements?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 12:11 PM MDT reply actions
He's a south paw so peeps can relate
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Jun 18, 2011 7:03 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
because its a stable
long-term marketing campaign with long term visibility.
NFL athletes last 4-7 years, NBA 7-10. baseball 8-13 years
Golf 30 plus years.
good long term visibility and recognition.
Money spent on Endorsements
is a function of the money spent on products and the effectiveness of endorsement to direct that purchasing power. When somebody wants to be like Mike, they buy kicks and underwear. When somebody wants to be like Tiger, they buy a Country Club membership? Clubs? Golf Cart? Outfits? Vacations? Airline tickets? and kicks?
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I think college can be a good developmental place
but the system needs some changing. I think players should be able to leave for the NBA after highschool if they so choose. But those going into college should be required to stay 3 years, 2 at the least. And I’d like to see something like if a player out of HS is not drafted in the 1st round he can’t be allowed to be drafted and must then decide between college or another place to develop. Europe worked out pretty well for Jennings, maybe the NBA can align with some European leagues as well. Living in a foreign place for a year or two will force the younger players to grow up quicker as well. Just some things I think could help development of non lottery picks, of course that doesn’t stop a Kwame Brown for popping up every once in awhile.
I see what you're saying
But I don’t think NCAA should be regarded as a D-league. It’s not and it shouldn’t be, given the academic side to the NCAA that you don’t have to worry about in a pure D-league that exists for no other reason.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 17, 2011 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes I don't believe college should be seen as a developmental league
I just believe it is a very good place to develop IF players stay a bit longer. Yes this requires education as well, which would be good for most pro athletes anyway. If you don’t have that commitment then go to another league like one in Europe. I think Koufas is someone who could have really benefited from some more college ball.
Get ready for wall to wall Gallo next season
Looks like the Nuggets are banking heavily on Gallo becoming legit
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
ignore Karl's caveat at the end....they are really banking on Gallo right now
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions
I haven't read it yet
but I’ll guess the caveat is some sort of self serving out that puts the blame on Gallo if this doesn’t work out. I’ll read it now to prove my predicitive skill.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Asked if this was the Nuggets making Gallinari their priority and taking a clear step in molding him to be their lead player, Karl hedged.
"You guys always want to exaggerate," Karl said. "I think he’s on the top of our priority list, but I think there are a few other guys there, too. I think Nene is there and some of the other free agent situations that probably can’t even be handled until the end of the summer. But right now with the lockout possibly coming on July 1 we’re trying to touch as many people as we can in a positive way and answer their questions and maybe give them some of our desires."
MOZGOD Member #35
And this is why I don't gamble
I’m not good at it!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't get it
I’ve watched the Mentalist on TV and everything.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Meanwhile...
Gallo is hanging out at the beach in Italy not working on his game…
The difference between Dirk and Gallo is the work ethic that Dirk had.
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
We shall certainly see. However, the Nuggets are banking on Gallo to step up
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Three points a game
should be entirely doable. He only took 11 shots a game last year, while Anthony takes 20 a game. He needs to improve his percentage. Improve his percentage and take a couple of more shots a game, and he would easily be at 18 points a game.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions
He'll definitely improve
I’d like to see a huge commitment to getting better though
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
Aren't the Euro Champs this summer? Is he playing?
and cmon, I guarantee you Dirk spent some of his summer on vacation too.
Nuggets need someone now that Smelo is in NYC.
I hope Gallo can be that player but I think guys like Nene, Lawson, and Felton will fill those shoes.
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Jun 18, 2011 2:19 AM MDT up reply actions
I chose other
I’m glad we actually have a pick and it sounds like we intend to use it, but that’s pretty much the extent of my happiness….I’m not expecting too much and wouldn’t be surprised if we trade the pick or player we get
good post though Jeff!
I was just talking about the lack of a minor league system in the NBA yesterday and i COMPLETELY agree with you that the league would benefit from having a legitimate one
Isn't that what the D-league is?
http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech
I think the NBA just needs to commit more the D-league (i.e more money)
and streamline the process of sending players there (and the reverese)
MOZGOD Member #35
the D-Leauge is so poorly funded
and they stick the scrubs down there….so it’s like the mixtape dudes with less talent down there.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I googled "Hanzlik Don't Dribble"
to try to find a story with your quote. I got 2,470 results that all appear to be you.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
lol
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions
yea
The D-league doesn’t really have proper developmental coaching systems that prepare young talent for the big show, which I guess comes down to funding. You are spot on with the And1 comparison, it’s actually exactly like that but with some mediocre players in there as well
In may ways the NBA uses European teams as its D-League
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you really one armed?
Or is this a reference to a slot machine?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions
No. My nickname comes from and old Economist joke
called The President’s Prayer:
God, please send me a one-armed economist, so I won’t have to listen to ‘On the other hand…’
I used to tell this joke to my collegues whenever they said it, and always refrained from using it myself; so, they nicknamed me The One Armed Economist.
BTW, if you lay all the Economists in the world end-on-end, they still won’t reach a conclusion!
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 5:26 PM MDT up reply actions
This is good stuff man. Props for the laughs!
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
by Nate Timmons on Jun 17, 2011 10:28 PM MDT up reply actions
My stepbrother is now one armed
Perhaps he should become an economist.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 18, 2011 9:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe they should talk to Tom Smykowski.
“It was a “Jump to Conclusions” mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor… and would have different CONCLUSIONS written on it that you could JUMP TO!"
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 19, 2011 3:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I heard the guy that invented the pet rock made a million dollars
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 20, 2011 9:56 AM MDT up reply actions
What would you do if you had a million dollars?
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 20, 2011 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions
You know what I would do if I had a million dollars? I would invest half of it in low risk mutual funds and then take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 20, 2011 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
This Asadulah guy sounds interesting....
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 20, 2011 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Besides two chicks at the same time?
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 20, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Well, yeah.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Jun 20, 2011 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions
From Howard Beck
HowardBeckNYT HowardBeckNYT
by talkhoops
Labor talks done for today. MoEvans says owners dropped demand to end guaranteed contracts. Players not impressed. Next meeting Tues.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
From Ken Berger
KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
Roger Mason of #Knicks: “There’s definitely an effort on the owners’ and on the players’ sides to try to get something done.”
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions
From Berger
KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
On owners relaxing stance on guarantees, Kessler said, “They made proposals about it, which we viewed as a positive step.”
Jeffrey Kessler is the Players lead lawyer
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 3:56 PM MDT up reply actions
The players are shooting themselves in the foot with the guaranteed contracts
There are probably 30 Kmart, Eddy Curry, Gilbert Arenas type contracts in the league. That’s money that could be going to players who actually deserve it, and not have teams making decisions based on the presence of bad contracts. Denver traded Camby in a move he opposed because of Kmarts contract. Kleiza went to Europe because of Kmarts contract. This happens over and over. Guarantee the contracts for injury with insurance, and cut they guys who don’t deserve the money.
The players should not be immune from downside risk if they don’t perform.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 4:34 PM MDT up reply actions
looks like the owners are the ones who came off of the guaranteed contracts
but what good are hard caps without non-guaranteed contracts. You severely limit your flexability to do anything under a hard cap with guaranteed contracts.
I think this says more about where the owners are at (divided) than the players.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions
The owners pulled the non-guaranteed contracts
under pressure from the players. The owners know the guaranteed contracts are bad, the players for some reason do not. It’s like the idiot NFL players who oppose a rookie wage scale that results in a rookie making more money than Tom Brady.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think the owners have ANY pressure from the players here
The smart thing to do, if there were to be compromise would be to partially guarantee contracts (with team friendly buyouts) and to stay away from the hard cap.
They owners have (dumbly) reversed it. They could have pressured the players into partially guaranteeing their contracts if they held out, but believe me when I say that the owners are so fractured on several issues that they clearly arent’ thinking with much foresight
Guaranteed contracts with a hard cap would be a nightmare for both players and owners.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Jun 17, 2011 4:47 PM MDT up reply actions
yea they messed it up
the hard cap wouldn’t be necessary if there was some sort of team friendly buyout to all contracts. Like you said, if there is a hard cap AND fully guaranteed contracts there’s gonna be a lot of teams with big time problems
Agree with both of you
Hard cap doesn’t work without the ability to terminate contracts. With no way to know what the cap will be in future years, teams could easily wind up over a cap if it didn’t go up as expected.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 17, 2011 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Aren't they sticking with the Hard Cap
because Dolan and Buss refuse to share TV revenues, so all that’s left for Small Market Teams is a Hard Cap to control spending.
by 1ArmedEconomist on Jun 17, 2011 5:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know about that
you would think both of them would strongly oppose a hard cap… considering it would leave them with a tiny amount of $$$ to fill out their rosters.Think about it, if the hard cap is somewhere around 55 mil. the knicks would have less than 1 mil left after CB1, Melo and Amare get paid
Don't mention Kleiza.
Kleiza SHOULD be in New York right now.
- The still bitter fan.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
THIS DRAFT WILL BE REMEMBERED AS NUGS BEST!!!
Three J’s
1) JIMMER
2) JAJUAN
3) JEREMY
I'd rather keep a J that matters
Over Jimmer, but I have accepted that only a complete idiot will stay with Karl the way he treated JR.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Jun 17, 2011 6:35 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Anyone else thing we'll purchase an extra draft pick?
It costs about $3 million to buy a first round draft pick in the 20s based on what Dallas and Portland have bought them for before. We recieved $3 million from NY during the trade. I just have a hunch that we had them send us that cash so we can buy an extra pick. What pick could we buy? Chicago has 2 available. Dallas could sell. Portland is in salary hell and could sell. Even the thunder could sell. They have plenty of players.
Lets sign Sean May!
www.GalloInGlasses.com
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
President of the AAA fan club.
TyRay Felton, where speed knows no boundaries.
Logic is only the beginning of wisdom.
What does this board think of my boy Ogide in a Nuggets Uni
Ex-CSU guy. He played well in his senoir season in Fort Collins (Tim Miles is the most underrated coach in the NCAA).
I don’t think his a first rounder but I would love to see him coming off the bench for the Nuggets.
Thoughts??? Go Rams & Nuggets!!!!!
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
Hollinger Draft rater
for those without insider,
he uses some hollinger numbers to rate prospects, says works better for guards than bigs.
Conclusions are:
Surefire thing Irving, best numbers since CP3.
DWill #2.
Tristan THompson #3, says very underated
Valanucius #4, great numbers
But first, if you’re looking for the CliffsNotes version of my Draft Rater, here are the five big takeaways:
• Marshon Brooks, Josh Selby and the two Morrises appear overvalued.
• Brandon Knight, Jimmer Fredette and Jan Vesely are overvalued, but not as strongly.
• Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are, rightly, the top two players on the board.
• Tristan Thompson and Tobias Harris are undervalued.
• Jon Leuer, Norris Cole and Greg Smith are your sleepers
has Tobias
who has been connected with the Nuggets in many a mock draft,
at #8 on his big board
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