Nuggets fans - Time to embrace the "R" word...
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 17, 2011 5:01 AM MDT
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
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PrintWith half the Nuggets roster playing overseas, and three players with no opt-out contracts in China - maybe it's time that the organization embrace that dreaded "R" word. A word that makes long-time Nuggets fans shudder ... rebuilding.
Gah! Excuse me for a second - I just threw up in my mouth a little. Whew. Ok, let's try this again, ahem, rebuilding ... yep, rebuilding ...
(pause)
I'm so sorry. I just fainted. You can see how difficult the "R" word is for me. Having been acquainted with - and a dedicated fan of - many eras of Nuggets basketball, I can't help but think of the dark, bleak period between 1990 - 2002 that saw the Nuggets finish with the worst record in basketball two times. They also finished with one of the bottom 12 records another eight times, with brief (but shining) playoff runs from 1993-1995. For the most part, it was a horrible time to be a Denver Nuggets fan. One that saw fan apathy and general discontent that nearly resulted in the team being sold to Stan Kroenke's brother-in-law Bill Laurie in the late 1990's. And Laurie might have had plan to move our Nuggets to his hometown of St. Louis.
Fast forward to present day. Having completed a trade that saw Carmelo Anthony (along with Chauncey Billups and others) go to the New York Knicks (and received several young players in return) the Nuggets of last season played with vigor and managed to squeeze out a 50 win campaign against all odds. Even though they lost to the Oklahoma City Thunder in the first round of the playoffs, Nuggets fans should have been proud of their team and could have had hope for the future.
It was disconcerting when Nene Hilario rejected the Nuggets contract extension in late June (2011). The Nuggets, for better or worse, relied heavily on Nene down the stretch and will miss his athleticism if he decides to take his talents elsewhere next season.
Enter the bloodsucking tapeworm that is eating up this season, the lockout. This lockout has "forced" players such as Ty Lawson and Danilo Gallinari to sign in Europe. What's worse is the loss of Wilson Chandler to China, and to a lesser extent J.R. Smith to the same country. These contracts are binding and these players aren't available until their season is complete (perhaps March of 2012). The Nuggets had to be shocked by Chandler's decision to play in China as it throws a monkey wrench into the team's plans.
As it stands, the Nuggets don't even have enough players to fill out an NBA roster (seven guys under contract and the two rookies, Kenneth Faried and Jordan Hamilton, yet to be signed). They have young talent, but it's highly doubtful they have that difference making player that you so desperately need in the NBA (the Detroit Pistons 2004 aberration not withstanding). Yes, we are all excited about Faried's potential, and we all want to see what Timofey Mozgov can do once he gets regular playing time (and my man Kosta Koufos providing essential minutes as a backup), yet, the difference maker is lacking. This showed up in spades several times in the OKC series.
This leads me to believe that the Nuggets need to be bad this season. They need that player that only comes at the top rungs of the NBA draft. Yes, you have to navigate your way in the loathed, quasi rigged (hello Dan Gilbert) draft lottery. However, the 2012 draft is stacked. The chances of picking up that one special player increase this season. This is why the Nuggets need to accept rebuilding. And a step further, this is why Nuggets fans need to hope beyond hope there is a season this year. If the year is wiped out the chances are likely the Nuggets will retain a very low draft pick and that will do them NO good. The team needs that extra special spice (like what Carmelo Anthony provided in 2003) to put them over the top.
I hate saying this. I HATE rebuilding. The NBA draft lottery is a joke (as bad as the Nuggets were in the 90's, how is it humanly possible they never finished with the top pick? Unbelievable.). and going through two to three years of sucking while waiting for players to mature is about as enjoyable as someone ripping off your toenails - yet I'm firmly of the opinion that this needs to happen. Take that band-aid and just rip it off. Time to grit your teeth and accept the inevitable.
Hopefully George Karl can buck his trend of not giving young players much of a chance and develop an up-and-coming squad. Hopefully this process won't be like removing your teeth without the Novocaine. Hopefully we can all sit back and say to ourselves that General Manager Masai Ujiri and Team Governor Josh Kroenke did absolutely the right thing. Currently the Nuggets have the lowest payroll in the league, and don't look for it to rise much above the cap floor. Young and cheap are the buzzwords of the new era of Nuggets.
The Nuggets front office duo is on the clock. They can't afford to mess this up.
GO 2012 draft! We don't want to press our luck, no whammy, no whammy, no whammy ... STOP!!
Twitter: @jmorton78 https://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
mortonagency@juno.com
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is it rebuilding
when the “rebuilding” team gets just as far in the playoffs as the old team?
I can handle rebuilding as long as our front office proves that they’re savvy enough to make the rebuilding era 3-4 years like OKC. What I can’t accept is giving out crappy contracts to undeserving players and then lousing in mediocrity like the Detroit Pistons. I would miss Nene, but he’s proven that he’s not the answer for the money he wants. I also don’t want a mish mosh of old veterans and rookies, again I’m alluding to the Pistons and looking right at you Hamburgler. If the Nuggets need to rebuild, then we should embrace it, and as Jeffrey Morton pulled out, this is certainly the draft to get a great player and get back on the road to success.
I wish you were wrong Jeff
…but you probably ain’t.
After a promising finale last season it is a shame to see so many players bolting or vacillating. So I guess we could let ’em walk, lose lots of games (but with heart) next year or two and draft a real stud or two.
That sounds depressing – my lockout-ravaged soul would rather see last year’s team (minus Kmart) get another crack at it.
I will be better able to think once there are some games to watch.
i can't get too mad if we tank a lockout shortened season
in a supposedly stacked draft. but if we continue to suck for years, i’m gonna be irate
This
if they are going to pull the NBA version of “suck for luck”, then we shouldn’t be rooting for the season to start anytime soon. Start the season Mid-January, just before the NFL wraps up. Then we only have to suffer through 40 or so games of suck to get a good pick.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 17, 2011 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Combine that
With lots of money for the FA in 2012, we are sitting pretty.
I’ve been saying this for months.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Oct 18, 2011 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions
It is obvious they have to rebuild
In fact, it started last year and if Nene leaves they will be in full on rebuild mode. However, it is not a complete rebuild because they have a good core (even without Nene and Chandler) and, hopefully, the two recent draft picks will blossom. If they get a good draft pick in 2012, the turn around could be very quick.
The way I see it:
Bright spots: Ty Lawson, Danilo Gallinari, Arron Afflalo, Andre Miller.
Low lights: Nene rejecting a contract ext., JR/Chandler/Martin to China. More years of Birdman and Harrington.
Question marks: Mozgov, Hamilton, Faried
This team is even more of an enigma than it was after the trade. Who knows what this team is capable of? Between Lawson, Afflalo, Gallinari, Faried and Hamilton, the Nuggets STILL have one of the most athletic teams in the NBA, perhaps THE most athletic if you discount ’Dre coming back. Though he should be fun for completely mixing up the styles – however, we now need (ironically) the same sort of half-court style player to complement Miller that ’Melo was when he was here.
The cool part is that we are going to get to see early if Faried and Hamilton are the real deal since the Nuggets now have a lot of spare minutes at the wings and they definitely won’t be filled by Harrington and Anderson.
This is the most depressing article you've ever written Jeff.
It just reminds me of all that went wrong the past two years.
Ugh…..
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
if it's any consolation
…it can only go up from here
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 17, 2011 11:33 AM MDT up reply actions
Looks like the NBA would conduct the NBA draft in a completely asanine way if they lose a season
http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/32787608
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 17, 2011 11:38 AM MDT reply actions
It wouldn't be the worst for us...
I think it would give us more lotto balls then other projected models. But I do agree it would be a dreadful system. Can you imagine the reprecussions if we see one of the contending team winning this lottery? I say disqualify recent finals appearence if the only thing.
Big market teams would win over Small Market teams!
Enjoy the 25th pick Denver!!!!
JR sign somewhere else, so we can get a guy who is not so Bi-polar.
Trade Chandler and Felton for another shooter.
by SD_Nugget_Fan on Oct 17, 2011 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions
The only way we can get past this is
If we have shortened season.
Everyone cross your fingers :D
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Oct 18, 2011 12:31 AM MDT up reply actions
i thought i heard somewhere
Draft pick would be assigned by payroll… since we’re lowest we’d go first…? Guess that’s not happening now?
by InboundingLobPass on Oct 18, 2011 8:17 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
the truth is no one knows
you probably did hear that, but that doesn’t mean that it’s for sure. It’s just an idea – hope it happens that way though for our sake.
That has been thrown out there.
Also this random lottery idea. Also averaging your last 5 picks. There’s tons of ideas, but I think they won’t give something for sure unless the whole season is cancelled. Def want the payroll one.
Great article
I’ve been wishing there was a different way around it. Without any impact signings with the cap space we will have, all we can do is go towards the draft. My real concearn is that we still have to much talent/drive in our players to not be in the bottom 3-5 in the league. True talent is in the top 4 this year. Lottery has never been kind to us.
If we see a lockout season then the draft odds will be particularily harsh to us. NHL used a model of factoring in playoff appearences and only discounting if you had previously gotten the number one pick. I see a similiar setup to come if that happens. We’d be talking early 20s most likely.
I’m always enthralled with how to build a team. Assuming a short season and similiar cap rules we’d still have to add about 15 million to even hit the cap floor. Trick is to do so without limiting yourself in the future. If no one warrants the money, perhaps a single year contract overpay might be a good idea. I.E. throw a one year 14 million contract at Kris Humphries if you can’t resign Nene. We’re definatly nearing the suck for luck type of scenario.
Re-building to me is a word attached to a team with an empty cupboard of talent.
The term I see the Nuggets going through is re-tooling. Too many good players on the roster as is to be a real candidate for a top draft pick … unless the word “tank” comes into play a la the San Antonio Spurs and Tim Duncan. I am still excited to see what the Nuggets plan is and how they will build going forward.
Would a top pick be awesome? Yes, do I want to see the team bad enough to make that a reality? I just don’t see this Nuggets team being as bad as others in the league … unless they fill out the roster with veteran minimum contracts …
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
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It would be easier to stomach a tank if the season was 50 games or less
on the other hand, there is too much talent to be the worst.
Rebuilding is inevitable
Only thing Jeff is pointing out is that we’re in a reality where the Nuggets have to rebuild. It’s coming sooner or later, regardless of what you want to call it.
We’re one of the cheapest, youngest, and most flexible teams in the league. The foundation on which the 50 win seasons and annual first round playoff exits has been totally uprooted. The longest tenured Nugget on the roster is Chris Andersen, the highest paid players are Andre Miller and Al Harrington. The leadership on this team consists of Arron Afflalo, who had earned a contract extension but is not signed.
If the Nuggets were really re-tooling, they should have extended Afflalo and Nene already. Now the ugly reality of a lockout is showing us that is the worst trap the Nuggets can fall into. Trying to act like it’s some kind of noble goal to keep charging towards first round playoff exits.
This team could easily re-tool, spend their cap space on washed up veterans and develop the rookies as third string backup contributors. That’s basically what they’ve been doing for years under the guise that they’re just a few pieces away from Finals contention.
That’s just not how truly successful teams are built. The sooner the Nuggets accept what’s ahead of them and embrace it, the better off they’ll be. It’s true this team may have a lot more potential than the Kings or the Clippers next year. Does that really matter if the long term goal is the championship? No, it’s a trivial thing to be worried about. It’s time for the organization – and the fans – to realize that now is the time to be patient and start building slowly from the ground up
We'll Move the Earth for a Title
Roundball Mining Company
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by runningdonut on Oct 17, 2011 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
Great points. I can clarify a bit by saying I think Lawson, Afflalo, Gallo, Mozgov, Faried and Hamilton give the Nuggets a nice base from which to build. Those players I’m more confident in a a team than I would be if I were a Wolves fan or a few other teams.
Re-tooling to me is having a nice foundation and being able to add to it though the draft and maybe a bit through free agency as well, if the right players are targets. Jason Richardson type guys would be a massive mistake … like you say it’s time to keep going younger and be smarter with the salary cap space.
It probably doesn’t matter what you call it: rebuilding or retooling (in my case), but yes we do need to realize the Nuggets are a very different team now than they were even in the OKC playoff series. I’m not saying AT ALL that the Nuggets are just a couple pieces away from a title, but they are also not a team that is completely lost and without a good foundation either.
I think the guys under contract now, give Denver a nice base from which a title could possibly be competed for down the line. Next year? No. Two or three years from now? If the right things are done … perhaps.
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Oct 17, 2011 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah, main point I’m making is Nuggets are at a dangerous point in franchise history. George Karl used the word re-tool and I think it kind of skews fans towards a perception that there is a quick fix that’s going to allow the Nuggets to keep competing now and eventually become championship caliber in the near future.
I just have to hope the franchise is smarter than that. They need to realize that being good enough to avoid being in the dregs of the league, but not among the elite – that’s the worst place they can be.
I wouldn’t ask everyone to agree that being a bad team this year is a good thing. I just think if you consider the alternative and the most likely scenarios – then you have to be open that the best way of going forward doesn’t mean trying your hardest to make the team compete right now.
The Basketball Gods are kind of sending us that message right now. This whole lockout, an illegitimate shortened season, Wilson going away to China, Nene opting out and turning down the Nuggets offer for an extension. In a really messed up way it may be good that the Nuggets are getting this message – you are rebuilding and it is just not going to be easy.
We'll Move the Earth for a Title
Roundball Mining Company
twitter.com/skitalicious
by runningdonut on Oct 17, 2011 3:24 PM MDT up reply actions
If they are rebuilding
Would Karl stick around? I don’t think he is interested in tacking a couple of losing seasons on to the end of his resume.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 17, 2011 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions
good distinction Nate
In fact, even the best teams should be constantly retooling or they will wither. Sort of like lants needing to be watered smartly.
I feel opposite about this. The Nuggets will win the NBA championship next season
Once the season starts, JR and chandler will be cut in china for “personal reasons” as was another nba player a few weeks ago.
Denver will run
pg- lawson, miller
sg- AAA, JR, hamilton, forbes
sf- Chandler, Harrington, Hamilton
pf- Gallo, Faried
C- Nene, Mozgov, Koufos
(Bird out injured)
With a shortened season and low playing time, this nuggets team will come together on the fly like last year. Only instead of 18-7, they’ll go 36-14 capturing the #1 seed and running through the playoff to the championship, similarly to how the 8th seeded knicks ran to the NBA finals in the last shortened season.
Yes, I said it, Gallo's future is the power forward!
GK told him to rebound. He was grabbing 10 boards a game in the euroleague tournament in the summer too.
Looks pretty good to me
In fact I like it. Gallo/Harrington both can play 3/4 so there’s mix n’ match options.
From Dwight Howard
pay attention to the last two interview answers from Howard. He’s bolting Orlando for a bigger market
http://www.esquire.com/features/man-at-his-best/q-and-a/dwight-howard-interview-1111-2
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 17, 2011 12:57 PM MDT reply actions
Wouldn't Denver be a larger market than Orlando?
Please oh please oh please
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I think that was a given
He would want to get to a bigger market. I’m somehow doubting that Orlando facilitates a trade. Then it becomes who can sign him to a max contract or is he willing to take a larger portion lower. Brooklyn could be if they denounce Lopez and a favorable cap (or they could have no Dwil as well). Otherwise he’ll have to be so kind as to request something from Orlando.
The only big market team with cap space will be Boston. Who will have a core of Rondo and Pierce and no one else…Only reason I put our name in the ‘just maybe’ is that we’ll have a core and space. Not a lot of teams offer that. If we see a drop in the max contract and no move with the salary cap. Knicks will be players. Hypothetically cap hodls will put them in the 12 mil range.
Honestly I don’t have a clue how he works it. If some of the provisions for the luxury tax model that’s been hinted at occur. I don’t see Orlando taking back salary to trade him.
I'm gonna call it here
he’s gonna team up with D-will in NJ. BUT, if there’s no 2011 season, do you think Howard would consider teaming up with CP3 in Denver. We’d have the cap to grab both, and some of our guys.
Great plan
Let’s give a max contract to a guy in his late 20’s with a long injury history. Cuz that worked out so well the last time.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 17, 2011 5:00 PM MDT up reply actions
there might be a .1% chance CP3 would come here
if we offered a max contract. Zero otherwise. We’re not going to attract top free agents unless there’s a free agent that feels some connection to Denver in some way. Doubt cp3 would have any interest in coming here.
LA
it’s inevitable. He will fill the void left by an aging Kobe, and they will continue to win championships. God I hate them.
by Rainbow skyline on Oct 17, 2011 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions
If he wants a bigger market we're good if he wants a glamour market
We’re screwed. I still think it’d be foolish not to try to tempt Dwight with a max contract, our core guys, and if we get the shortened season, a good draft pick.
In fact, I think we’d be sitting pretty in the contention.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Oct 18, 2011 12:35 AM MDT up reply actions
Of course we HAVE to at least try
but from the sounds of it, he’s going the Melo route and simply want’s to “expand his brand”
/barf
I don't mind the idea of rebuilding at all
We’ve made the playoffs eight straight seasons… with two series wins to show for it. I love the current core but it’s not going to be better than OKC, Dallas, or the Lakers anytime soon. Time to stop being the 10thish best team in the league, drop to the bottom, and try to rise back to the top. One step back two steps forward and all that.
Wait, what's his real name? We should make a joke out of that.
by BrandonHawpe on Oct 17, 2011 2:01 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
The thing everyone seems to forget
Is that outside of OKC, the West is still up for grabs. The Lakers will not be the same without Phil Jackson, and this is it for the Mavs (it was there one and done year). I mean we punked both those teams without Melo in big games.
I think we are similar to the Memphis Grizzlies in that we have good young talent and veteran presence (Miller is an underrated pickup).
I want to see what roster we get before the season starts, I wouldn’t mind tanking a lockout season, but if we keep the core and add that awesome draft pick we could do really well in the future.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
Uh.....no
We have no idea of what we got. Too many questions need to be answered before we think of our next step and goals.
Rebuilding now would be the equivalent of asking to be hit in poker before you looked at your hand. Not wise.
Also, we were darn good after trade which complicates matters. Frankly, if we’d played .400 ball, then I could see rationale for rebuilding.
For now, let’s hold our jets and see what we got.
If we are poor, then at least we’d know what we need. For now, I really dont know.
sorry but it has to be noted you don't take hits in poker
That’s Blackjack your thinking of.
However I don’t see how a high draft pick could hurt us in our quest for a royal flush.
by InboundingLobPass on Oct 18, 2011 10:26 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
You can take hits in draw.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 19, 2011 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions
I'm a fan of this particular article...but I'm biased
http://www.thenbageek.com/articles/facts-getting-in-the-way-of-your-argument-just-yell-louder
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
hope the bag geek
is being paid for his writing by the players
just to clarify
its OK to generally side with one party in this any most disputes but to apparently agree 100%, on every single issue, past, present and future with one side makes me suspicious. Suspicious, spelled I D E A L O G U E
(Sure hope that’s how that’s spelled. Damn vowels!)
You cant spell "idealouge" without "idea"
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 17, 2011 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
true, true
but ideas can be valid or not, fair or not, silly or not …
But, Jeff, your good response actually locked my brain for a couple of seconds
Something that seems to be misconstrued repeatidily
Is that small markets like San Antonio and OKC can do it. So just stop being incompetent.
San Antonio got the #1 pick in David Robison in 89 had success with him. Then proceeded to go 59-23 in 95-96. Robinson gets injured and they go 20-62 and get the #1 pick. This setups them up where they can be the contender of the future. Spurs did a great job of tapping the untapped international market. But without Duncan none of that happens.
OKC hit on #2 pick Durant in 07 (somewhat hit on Jeff Green as well that year #5 pick). Hit on Russell Westbrook the number #4 pick in 08. Hit on Serge Ibaka the #24 pick in the 08 draft as well. Then hit on the #4 pick of James Harden in 09. That goes to luck as well as to scouting. They also are about to have to pay the contracts of said players. They have a 2 year window unless they want to get their salaries in the excess of about 70 million.
There is no model of sustain success for small market teams. Get a top 50 player and keep them or hit on 3 high lottery picks in a row. (which also means you’ve been terrible for 3 years). Or be like Denver, Oralando, Atlanta, and Dallas paying high salaries in to the tax for years. There are teams that deserve their losses on overpays and poor drafting. But not every single small market team does. Small market teams winning requires…luck.
by remyrems on Oct 18, 2011 10:27 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
not only did they luck out with Duncan
but they lucked out that his personality does not require constant adulation and expansion of his ‘brand’.
so not only do you need to luck out in the lottery, but the guy you draft better not have stars in his eyes cause if he does you’ll get one contract extension out of him and then he’ll be gone.
we’ll see if durant bucks the trend. dwight certainly looks to be following in line.
I didn't understand the Dan Gilbert reference.
explain?
by Rainbow skyline on Oct 17, 2011 4:12 PM MDT reply actions
Gilbert getting the first & 4th pick
Stern’s way of saying sorry for the way LBJ screwed you. Even Emperor Stern has a soft side now and again. Though I cringe when I write that. The only reason I am happy that the NBA season hasn’t started is so I don’t have to make Stern button references and get really pissed at the refs who a can affect this game more than any other sport (at least of the 4 major ones).
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
given the records of the teams involved
I don’t think 1 and 4 was all that outlandish. Guess I’ve never heard this theory before.
by Rainbow skyline on Oct 17, 2011 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions
I guess it's just semantics
But I hesitate to call a team with an already-quality core of Lawson, Afflalo and Gallo “rebuilding”. Unless they get nothing but total dregs in FA they will not be getting a top-10 pick.
It’s really tough to say what stage this team is at until we get a resolution on nene. It is a huge blow if he goes and I fear that this would plant us in the dreaded NBA netherworld of being a fringe playoff contender. If he stays on the other hand with some smart signings we could pull off a successful near-instant post-trade rebuild and shortly be right back in the thick of things.
I think in a vacuum Nene is not quite worth the 13-14m that he wants, but given the dropoff in post-play we are going to be looking at if he bolts, we should go ahead and splurge.
by Rainbow skyline on Oct 17, 2011 4:39 PM MDT reply actions
Hey guys...I'm going to be interviewed live on the Johnny Ballgame show
http://johnnyballgameshow.com/live/
Click the link to listen live. I’m going on at 5:05pm Mountain
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
I don’t know how many boards Gallo can grab at the NBA level, but I know that D’Antoni didn’t stress it . So he can do better than he was for the Knicks. I doubt more than 7 though. He’s not a PF unless you plan on playing small ball.
he's 6ft 10 and thick. He's a big boy
You have all these 6ft 8 “tristan thompson” and 6ft 9 guys"Derrick Favors" around the nba now. There’s no reason he can’t be the pf. I mean we started Kenyon at 6ft 9 and made it to the wcf.
I've seen Gallo
Shove and show some attitude on the floor – he’s not your typical Euro.
"I am te real mozgov. Stopp say I fake fans"
by KevinAwesome on Oct 18, 2011 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions
The players overseas with NBA contracts actually have to come back when the lockout ends.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/other-sports/ci_19108742
“The European leagues are already under way, and teams will be hesitant to break up their rosters to rent an NBA player for a few weeks or months. Players with NBA contracts must return when the lockout ends. And as Anthony said, players expect the lockout to end — sooner rather than later”
So, as long as the lockout ends, it looks like the Nuggets will be able to keep the same players that are signed elsewhere and won’t have to play with just those who stayed. Maybe this isn’t even a credible source, though. Others are free to do more research.
Yes and no
the guys in Europe (i.e. Lawson) would come back.
The guys in China (Chandler, J.R., Kmart) are committed there through the end of the season. They can’t come back until March.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 18, 2011 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions
they can
China cut players anytime for any reason. Contracts are different over there. If Jr, chandler or Kmart say cut me I don’t wanna play here anymore, they will do it.
Tell me how we can get a Dirk Nowitzki
And we wouldn’t be overpaying for those guys you mentioned.
It’s hard to get players who are worth their contracts, though I do believe Nene and JR were paid appropriately.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Oct 18, 2011 1:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I think if you had your way,
we’d have a team of D-league stiffs getting paid the minimum.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 18, 2011 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions
to me it comes down to Nene
If he goes and we don’t get a Gasol type center to replace him, we are DEFINITELY rebuilding. If he stays we can still compete.
I don't see us rebuilding
As long as Karl is here. I agree we don’t have a championship team, but it seems that the front office feels they can turn a player on our team into a superstar caliber player. Maybe that’s Ty, or Gallo. Who knows?
If we want to rebuild, then we need to not sign AAA and Nene if he is interested.. trade Ty, and Gallo. Otherwise, we’re going to win enough to not be one of the worst teams in the NBA. And if that’s the case it is not a real rebuild.
the clippers were offering us the timberwolves unprotected 2012 pick
in exchange for gallo. If we really want to, we can take it. not resign anyone, and run
ty-pg
hamilton-sg
harrington sf
faried-pf
mozgov-c
along with some cheap backups. We’d suck, but if we could get two top 5 picks and come away with Andre Drummond and Harrison Barnes, that would rebound us fast.
i do not hate this idea
the folks over at hoopshype constantly say that Gallo is at best a 6th man. We’re banking on him to be a franchise player. I don’t actually agree with either assessment, but I’m wondering which side of the scale he’ll come closest to.
I kinda agree about Gallo
I’m think he can become a really versatile 3/4, not sure about franchise player but he should be a very good starter on a good team, maybe a 2nd /3rd option
I don't hate this idea either
To me 2012 is down the tubes already…let’s get good (great) picks. Use the young foundation and $$ to build for 2013.
I bet Andre Miller would not be too keen on this idea though.
He won't care.
He and Al can go to Red Robin a lot.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 19, 2011 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hehe
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 19, 2011 4:56 PM MDT up reply actions
did you use "point" on purpose?
Or was it no pun intended?
NotWorriedAboutNuggets and Army of Nugs for Co-Head Coaches in 2013!
by Army of Nugs on Oct 20, 2011 2:24 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm probably alone on this
But I really want to see what this team can do. I know most say we won’t be that good, just got hot at the right time and all that… but I think if we keep Nene, and Afflalo that we should have a very good starting five. Will still have a very good bench. I think we can be a lot better then people think. Are we a championship team? Probably not, unless Ty or Gallinari become franchise type players.
I really want to keep Afflalo, even more then Nene. There are certain players that have “it,” that you know are going to put in 110% every scrimmage, practice and game. And they’re going to get better and make the whole team better. I honestly think we beat OKC in the playoffs with a healthy Afflalo.
I hate rebuilding
and I hate the fact that they are struggling to get at the cap floor like the Avs are. unwilling owners leads to an unwilling front office which leads to shit plays, a dissapointed fanbase and eventually no team at all. Hopefully the Kronkes start spend money and spend it smartly if they do. Lets try to avoid future K-Marts and Al Harringtons shal we Stan and Joshy?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
They have tried to spend
they offered Melo the max. The offered Nene over $10 million per. I think it’s smart not to offer Nene more than that.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 19, 2011 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions
We don't really know
how willing or unwilling Stan is to spend on the Nugs, and we won’t know until there’s an actual free agency period. I have faith that our FO has a plan though.
Man, all this lockout bussiness is getting old
wish we could be talking about other things, like ACTUAL BASKETBALL!
So far I'm relatively satisfied with how the new look Front Office has done.
I think they’re just trying to slowly mold the team into what they envision a successful team should be*. Like anything worthwhile it takes time & patience.
*might not actually be a successful team.
by InboundingLobPass on Oct 21, 2011 12:11 AM MDT reply actions
Why?
This is totally pointless given where the Nuggets are at financially and with their thin roster. Also, Birdman is a very effective backup and he’s awesome.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 22, 2011 8:48 PM MDT up reply actions
these are their centers : ryan hollins&serdh
they would be getting a big up grade @ a need position for them
with all due respect
I don’t know if Koufus would be a big upgrade. You’re talking about a guy who couldn’t crack the timberwolves’ rotation prior to the trade.
I have no interest in sideshow bob.
He’s not even as good as Bird, IMO.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 23, 2011 7:58 PM MDT up reply actions
What would be the point
of adding mediocre pieces from a terrible team? We already have solid pieces on our good team, and I have no idea how AV would “balance” JR’s purported hotheadedness. JR isn’t even a Nugget at this point, and we already have TONS of cap space, so no need to dump contracts. I actually believe Bird is worth his. He brings energy, is good at what he does and puts butts in seats. I would actually be annoyed if I had to see varejao spazzing and flopping around in a Nuggets jersey.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Oct 23, 2011 9:56 PM MDT up reply actions
Tank It!
I have been saying for a while that the Nuggs need a legitimate 2-3 years of rebuilding if they want to become really good, and this depressing strike shortened season is the best place to start. I believe rebuilding with Josh and Masai will be fun (not so sure about Furious George, who seems to loathe rebuilds). And, heading into the most stacked draft since the LeBron draft, gives the Nuggs a great shot at getting a player to build around. My rebuild recipe:
1) Sign and Trade Nene for a decent young big and picks.
2) Unload Fat Albert at all costs. He is a drain on salary and minutes.
3). Give Moz, Fareed and Koufos those minutes.
4) Assess whether Karl is the right coach for a rebuild.
5) Grab a ticket to the 2012 Lottery.
by ACEIII on Oct 25, 2011 10:19 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
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