Melo'd out...
by Andrew Feinstein on Aug 27, 2010 3:25 AM MDT
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
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PrintJust like Carmelo Anthony (allegedly) wants to do, I'm packing up my things and leaving Denver for New York...
...for this weekend only. (Hey, what's wrong with having a little fun around here?) My annual summer escape to New York is upon me and I'm in much need of some rest and relaxation...and a little partying, too.
I'm not going to write much about the latest installment of the "will-or-won't-Carmelo-stay-in-Denver?" saga, brought to you late yesterday by Yahoo! Sports' Adrian Wojnarowski. I've been writing about Melo's imminent departure from Denver since mid-July and while I don't think anything Wojnarowski wrote Thursday afternoon should be considered definitive, if the dots aren't connecting for Nuggets fans now, when will they?
Whether you're enamored with all-things-Melo or not, I think most Nuggets fans (me included) can agree on one thing: the team is better off with a happy Carmelo Anthony staying in Denver. But unfortunately, this doesn't appear to be the reality and thus, the Nuggets organization - with their new general manager on board - are faced with two options: trade Melo to the highest bidder, or force Melo to play for Denver throughout the 2010-11 season and hope things sort themselves out both on and off the court.
From my vantage point, the Nuggets really only have one option and that's to trade the best Nugget since Alex English before the season begins. And considering that multiple teams are (allegedly) lining up to secure Melo's services, the Nuggets find themselves with adequate leverage to make a good - albeit not great - deal, something I alluded to almost two weeks ago and was laughed out of the room by many loyal Nuggets fans.
The day Carmelo Anthony departs Denver will be a sad one for Nuggets fans. We won't get equal value for Denver's lone superstar and it's possible that our eighth consecutive postseason appearance will vanish. But having seen the carnage left in the wake of LeBron James and Chris Bosh's departures from Cleveland and Toronto, respectively, I for one am glad that the Nuggets are being proactive here and are playing hardball with Melo's representation (lest we forget that Melo is represented by the same bad actors who coaxed LeBron out of Cleveland).
Moreover, I believe a post-Carmelo future could be bright for Denver basketball fans. We will get some value in return for Anthony combined with the departing salaries of Kenyon Martin and (hopefully) J.R. Smith, giving the Nuggets some cap room to make noise with. Throw in an enthusiastic, young, bright, basketball-loving owner, an enthusiastic, young, bright, basketball-loving GM with a terrific life story (more on Masai Ujiri to come when I get back to Denver...let's just say I'm hearing great things from my friends who cover the Raptors) and the remarkable and inspiring return from cancer treatment by Nuggets head coach George Karl, and I feel as though an exciting, fresh start is on the near horizon.
If Carmelo Anthony doesn't want to be a part of the Nuggets renaissance that's upon us nor play in one of the best sports cities in America, so be it. I won't beg him to stay and neither should you.
I'm Melo'd out.
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Get rid of this primadonna
and trade him as long as we at least get something in return. It’s not like we’re going to win the ship this year if he stays anyways so lets get right on to rebuilding. Maybe we can try to land CP3 next year (very unlikely though). But there’s no point in forcing him to keep playing here.
by AGAINST_DA_LAW-SON on Aug 27, 2010 4:22 AM MDT reply actions
So you want to exchange one prima donna for another?
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Do as the Lakers do
And call his bluff and get him what he wants. He wants a better team so spend the money and make it happen. It is a gamble but at least at the end of the day we all know that the FO did everything they could to keep him.
I don’t think Melo is being a primadonna at all. He isn’t teasing other cities like Lebron did with New York. He isn’t making anything a big spectacle….his agent and the press are doing that and that is really out of his control.
I like this approach
but I don’t really see the gamble in it. I think we can keep building a championship roster regardless.
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 11:36 AM MDT up reply actions
I disagree...
Melo has never complained about the talent Denver is putting on the floor with him(at least that I have read). As far as I can tell he just wants to play in a city that is cooler than Denver. Who does he want them to bring in? They brought A.I., they brought Billups, the keep around J.R. because Melo likes him. It’s not like he’s the only star on a 20 win team, he’s got talent around him. And Melo is a primadonna. A play d when he wants, rebound when he wants, dish the ball when he wants, televised marriage primadonna. The guy is one step away from a reality show. And he has dropped other team names, like LeBron, we just haven’t gotten that far into this episode of the NBA’s version of “Days of Our Lives”. If the Nuggs FO doesn’t do something about it, we’ll be there soon.
He commented after the trade deadline in Feb
that the Nuggets should’ve traded for another big, something that everyone and their mother knows is true.
I agree with Ding Chavez, give him some more talent to play with like the lakers did with Kobe.
It's just not the same scenario though
A) What big can we really go secure to appease him here?
B) I don’t think Kobe ever had a band of asshole thug wannabe’s in his corner causing splits with the team
…and C) we’re not a major market like LA
There is no place cooler than Denver.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 27, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions
It's Pretty Clear Now
When it was a hack like Ric Bucher reporting, I still had hope that the situation was overblown, but Wojnarowski is solid. Melo is done here. Although part of me just wants the Nuggets to teach Worldwide Wes and CAA a lesson and make Melo play out the season and lose 30 mil, even if we get nothing. But it’s probably best for the team to just move him and start rebuilding.
by MikeyLikesNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 7:24 AM MDT reply actions
The view from Chicago
Rebuilding is a challenge. It took us 7 years to be decent enough to compete for the playoffs. It most likely will take longer than you think. My suggestion is rebuilld primarily through he draft. I think the Knicks approach of giving up picks for cap space is risky and not particularly effective. Do you think Stoudemire at 100mil uninsured has been worth gutting the team and giving up picks? I do not believe that is the way to succeed.
There is no doubt luck will be a key ingrediant in your success. We don’t get lucky at #9 in the lottery and get Rose we are still looking at the lottery. You will be in better shape than Cleveland who received nothing for LeBron. However, the next few years will be challenging for the Nuggets. Once you get some good young guys it is fun trying to get over the hurdle of making the playoffs. Good luck – I will be following this.
nice perspective
it’s a lot easier to be unlucky than lucky in the draft, no doubt about that. Even when you get a top pick it’s not a given as we all know.
re: NY and Cleveland
I’d hate to bore the Nuggets fans here…
But NY is in a stupid situation. They are better than last season for having Stoudemire, but if that’s the only move they can make between now and say, 2012, they’re no better than a 6 seed, and first round loss. They haven’t demonstratively elevated that roster at all. There’s holes in their starting lineup. Who’s their starting backcourt? Felton at PG? Yuck. I think that the Knicks management and their fans might be counting on Anthony Randolph to actually be the player fan-boys hope he can be. He’s an IF, at best. Unless the Knicks are selling themselves on Melo and CP3 (behind the scenes of course) then what are they doing? Whiffing on LeBron hurts them nearly as much as his leaving hurts Cleveland, in the grander scheme of things. Maybe I underestimate the Knicks fans interest in that slop.
Cleveland can still do some things, but that’s an awful situation to be in, and I don’t think it’s analogous for one big absolute fact… the Nuggets will have HUGE cap space next summer. LeBron leaving this year didn’t give the Cavaliers anything to work with since they used up all their other expiring contracts to get LeBron an audience. I don’t really fault the Cavs management either – since the deal for Stoudamire was at least partly stymied by PHX interest in keeping him.
Just throwing my 2 cents out there. I really think the Nuggets are in a far better position than either of those teams. I’d rather have the Nuggets roster next summer w/o Melo than either of the Cavs or Knicks today.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
I wouldnt even say they are better
David Lee’s advances Numbers arent far from Amares.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not worried
Melo is not the only person on the team that can win games. If he leaves we’ll have to find a decent small forward just to plug into the roster, but other than that we’ll be fine. We have two point guards in Chauncey and Ty that can win games, we have a solid starting shooting guard that can score when he’s allowed to and will be given more opportunities with no Melo in AAA, if we keep JR he can make up for a lot of the lost points, if we trade him, good riddance. We have a power forward that can score with anyone in Al Harrington and we have a powerful, if sometimes soft center in Nene. Not to mention, if we keep him, KMart proved he can step up his offense when needed last year. Birdman will be healthy. Take Melo out of our roster and we still have a solid team.
by NotWorriedAboutNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 8:19 AM MDT reply actions
If Melo leaves Billups will follow....
Billups is getting old and will want to stay on a team with Championship hopes, not a young rebuilding team.
NO WAY!!!
Billups is Home now and I dont think he would leave. Unfortunately he cannot remain as the starter.
If Melo leaves then Ty Lawson is our star. We should build the team around him meaning that Chauncey must come off the bench. CP3 Sucks anyways we got Ty who will be much better anyways.
I think that the Nuggets need to trade Melo to a place he will absolutely hate …Toronto (Kleiza anyone?), Detroit, or Milwuakee. Mebbe pick up Andrew Bogut and some prospects.
I love what Melo has done with the Nuggets but this team cannot succeed with Divas, so bye bye JR, Melo, Kenyon, Your services are no longer needed.
by distortedman on Aug 27, 2010 11:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Do yourself a favor
and trade him. That line pissed me off, and I’m a huge Melo supporter. I say we trade him to bball hell…..have fun playing for the clippers melo!
Is it REALLY better to trade him?
If he’s gone he’s gone….but at this point I’d value the cap space over making a crappy trade for hack talent. Seriously, as a long time Nuggets fan I’m in no mood for the long and VERY painful prospect of building through the draft. It’s going to suck no matter what, but most of the trades proposed on here are unrealistic and quite frankly no one is going to give up alot of talent. Especially for a guy they think they have just as good a chance of getting WITHOUT a trade.
This sucks. Those who are reveling in this can kiss my ass.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I really like the idea
of watching him play another season as a Nugget (even if he knows he’s leaving). Having said that, trading Melo and cap space aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive options for us as I think at least a couple of the teams we might trade him to are below the cap, so the salaries would not have to match. In other words, we should theoretically be able to get a couple of first rounders PLUS cap space.
I know people are afraid of him not agreeing to a sign and trade if we play it out, but I personally would love to keep him for the season and then attempt the S&T, including at least one first rounder. Couldn’t we also up the ante by adding years to the contract, if that helps?
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey Andrew
Some of my favorite places in Manhattan:
Music: Smoke, Smalls, Village Vanguard
Food: Rosa Mexicana (both locations), Il Vagabondo, Acme bar & grill, Artisanal
Bars: Arthurs Tavern, No Man’s Land, Amnesia, Holland Cocktail lounge (the one in Hell’s Kitchen)
Have fun.
Time for owners revenge
Melo pulling a LeBron- ok owners get even- TRADE HIM TO CLEVELAND!
by CavsfaninDenver on Aug 27, 2010 9:40 AM MDT reply actions
Keep in mind
For us, the Nuggets are a passion. Our rooms in our homes undoubtedly have some type of Nuggets paraphernalia on the walls. We have all watched the Nuggets, through think and thin, and spilled many beers and tears over their wins and losses. For Melo, basketball might be his passion an there are a select few who are lucky enough where their job is their passion. But remember, this is Melo’s job. If he has an opportunity that is better for him then he should take it. You would do the exact same thing in your job as Melo is doing now if it were a similar situation.
When our hearts are involved, bad news never allows us to see good. Everyone wants to be negative and will be sure to point out those elements – have fun with that. Hope it gets you somewhere – I will prefer to remember his tenure this way:
He gave us 7 straight years of thrilling Nuggets basketball! 7 straight years of post season play. He made Denver a viable basketball town. He represented the USA (and the Nuggets/Denver by proxy) proudly when he helped bring home gold in 08. There are many more great memories and I hope that Nate and Andrew, if Melo does go, spend time reflecting on everything good that Melo did. A championship is bigger than just one person. LeBron could not win one by himself. Kobe couldn’t do it nor could Duncan. Melo did everything within his powers to deliver us a championship. It was unrealistic for us to put that squarely on him but we did. And I am not taking away from any other player on the team but when we selected him third in the draft, all of our championship dreams landed on him.
Melo – if you are going – thanks for the memories! Good luck.
by Shannon1127 on Aug 27, 2010 10:14 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Come join us at NetsDaily where we already have 700 Posts about Melo to the ALL NEW NETS based on the Woj article.
http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/8/26/1652828/woj-melos-on-the-market-and-the#comments
Most of you are unfamiliar with the New Nets, since all you think of is the 12 win team and Brook Lopez / Devin Harris.
First of all to get things straight, Lopez is never going to be traded, nor is Favors, who could have 15 more years left and may be at an Amare level player.
Nets will be offering TWO 1st round picks (their own 2011 pick and the Warriors 2012 pick (1-7protected)).
They will also be willing to part with 2nd round picks (Nets have 6 over the next 3 years).
All deals with Nets come with a $3 million gift from the new owner, Prokhorov (Proky).
Nets will probably give you
Kris Humphries($3.2 million expiring) since you will be short at PF to begin the season. I personally like Hump, however we prefer to keep Troy Murphy’s 12 million expiring.
As far as the talented young players you want, we prefer to give you Travis Outlaw, (7 million x 5 years), but we can’t trade him until mid December. Instead we may be willing to offer
Damion James,who is a real Stud SF and was the best rookie player in the Orlando Summer League. He is a strong rebounder, defensive player and in summer league showed that he can score from anywhere.
The real Stud we might be forced to part with is
Terrence Williams(TWill), who will probably win the Slam Dunk contest this year. TWill is a point forward who can also play some PG and coach Avery Johnson is planning to use as a SG this season.
Now please remember, that if Melo demands a trade to a specific team, such as the Nets, you will have little to bargain win. Getting 2 first round picks and 2 stud players, not named Lopez/Favors, isn’t so bad.
He must be talking about those New (we couldn’t get a free agent to come to us) Nets.
Look, I respect every team in the NBA but your post seems like taunting. I was there in the Nets blog when you guys were bragging and laughing at every single team, talking about your Billionaire owner and how you’ll land Lebron.
Now you think you’ll get Melo? Ain’t going to happened. Be happy you guys have young talent like Lopez and Favors.
by SpursGerbil on Aug 27, 2010 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Lol
I’m a poster on NetsDaily and you are absolutely right. For the longest time, people thought we were landing LeBron. Just as I expected, however, we FAILED big time. Yet, we still did land Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Troy Murphy, and Derrick Favor (to mention the best deals) whom all are very productive young players. Also, I do believe we would be willing to trade Derrick Favors. Still, it would be impossible to snag Brook Lopez from us, as well as Devin Harris (unless we received Ty Lawson in return). Although we won’t trade you our superstar, you can gain one in Derrick Favors, #1 picks, and other young players.
by higgysmalls34 on Aug 28, 2010 8:23 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes
I think Lopez would be a necessary piece to a championship team. He is no superstar, but he is efficient, and one of the better Cs in the NBA, and he is really young. Here is my trade idea:
NJ sends: Derrick Favors, Damion James, Troy Murphy, 2 1sts
Den sends: Carmelo Anthony, 2011 2nd (remember, this could be in the thirties)
Then a Big Z esque buyout is arranged for murphy, and he goes back to NJ for a minimum deal. Of couse, murphy would have to want to go back.
Monkfish
You either dont watch basketball or place to much value in Melo. NJ isnt gonna give you all that. I think Derrick Favors and Troy murphy plus a Pick would be enough to land Melo.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I really doubt it
Favors and Murphy plus one pick would get the deal done. Im not a fan of either team, so I have no bias. Even Troy and Favors, plus a 2nd round pick may do it. Top 5 picks hold more value then you think.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 11:14 PM MDT up reply actions
you realize
the Nets would be left with Kris Humphries and Sean May at the PF if they traded both Murphy and Favors, right?
That is just what happens when you trade for a superstar
Also, Its not that hard to get a PF.
you serious?
I think many Nets will disagree with that statement. We’ve been desperate to find a good enough PF since we lost KMart and haven’t been able to replace him after he left. Now we got a very nice tandem at the PF we can’t afford to trade them both.
I also don’t believe Anthony is a guy who’s worth creating such a hole at such a critical position. Again, need by position, depth, team balance and replacement value are factors that can’t get overlooked because of a flashy name.The Nets can’t be that stupid to give up a package like that and not take into account those factors I mentioned.
I understand that
But you’re not gonna get Melo for Damion James and Terrence Williams. Favors will have to be in the deal or a different team will get him. Murphy is easily replaced in the trade.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
Again,
A big Z style buyout could be arranged for Murph, so you are without him for a month, big deal.
I doubt NJ would wont to pony the money for a Buyout
And Denver has no motive to buy him out unless NJ pays for it.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
I am saying that if
That of all things is the sticking point of the deal, then it can be worked around.
Yes they are unproven, but they have 9 1/2 decent players who have nothing to do with last season, when Devin Harris decided to "give up" when he wasn't injured and there wasn't enough reserve gas to get Brook through the fourth quarter.
The Nets DID lose out on LeBron and his Associates, but it wasn’t the plan of Prokhorov (Proky) or Rod Thorn/ Avery Johnson to go after any other top free agents, at the price they were asking.
The proof of that is that they didn’t go to meet with any other free agents in person, other than the Miami-Bound-Threesome.
The Nets did want Rudy Gay, but he was already gone, and they wouldn’t pay near Max dollar for Gay.
Once the Nets signed Troy Murphy ($12 million expiring), we have been satisfied that we didn’t chase any of the other PFs, with Derrick Favors in the waiting.
The Big question Nuggets fans have, is do you trade Melo before the season or wait until the end of the year or January, when there may be more players available and it would be easier to assess the young talent out there; For example, Damion James and Terrence Williams. Also many of the free agents won’t be available to trade until the end of the season, such as Travis Outlaw and Anthony Morrow.
Here is some more on the playoff contending New Nets:
Check out the TWill highlights in the middle of this story:
http://www.examiner.com/new-jersey-nets-in-newark/terrence-williams-too-valuable-for-quick-fix
Nets are currently 4.2 million under the salary cap at this moment, by my corrected calculations.
That should be considered when figuring how much salary needs to be brought over in a trade for Melo, who is getting $17.15 million.
The 4.2 million figure should drop once the season begins and Sean May and a couple of non-drafted picks are signed.
Here is the complete roster to choose from. Jarvis Hayes (remnant from the OLD Nets) hasn’t had his rights renounced, so he too could be part of a trade, to make salaries work out:
Want him or not....
Any discussion of a trade for Melo starts with your #3 pick…. or end of discussion.
This I can understand.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 27, 2010 12:15 PM MDT up reply actions
I can see NJ being decent this year
but I don’t see them being real contenders for a while still, even if you get Melo. You would be playoff bound in no time, sure, but that just puts you on the radar. Take it from a bunch of fans that went to the playoffs every year of Melo’s career and still didn’t get any kind of real consideration as contenders until we lost to the Lakers in the WCFs.
so, looking at it from that point of view, it’s kind of like saying “BEHOLD! The New Almost-Relevant New Jersey Nets!!!! Their near-relevancy will astound you!!!!” Ok, I couldn’t resist that. I’m sure you’re all very excited for the coming seasons, as you do have a good young core. The return to relevancy is an exciting time.
I’m just trying to stave off the fall from relevancy.
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
they’re idiots
that’s why they are about to be in the crapper for the next 10 years.
We should inform them that they have no leverage, no one is giving them equal value for Melo, and they are up poop’s creek.
In fact, some brave soul can just copy and paste what I’ve said, if they want to play "TROLL 4 a DAY"
“No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on…I will be sitting on it.”
by MrDollarBills on Aug 27, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, you describe the fans as idiots in the Nets blog and then come over in “peace”. And of course you would say “copy and paste”, you didn’t want to be exposed as a true troll. Trust me, I’ve seen you plenty in other blogs and you are the definition of a troll.
Okay man, that is pushing things.
Im understanding the good natured smack talk, but there is no reason for calling someone “the definition of a troll” when you really dont have a basis for it and its completely untrue.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 27, 2010 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
part of me is loving this
non-nuggets fans on a nuggets site trolling eachother.
But really, man, you guys should be uniting against the common enemy here, us nuggets fans.
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
hahaha
the weird and wonderful world of internet sports and blogging. Thats just the way it is.
And I dont see you as the enemy, just an “associate”
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 27, 2010 12:42 PM MDT up reply actions
(kicks back in lawn chair and sips some lemonade and watches it all unfold)
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
screw the nets
quite frankly, if neither one of derrick favors or brook lopez are coming in a melo deal, then forget it. plain and simple. terrence williams, kris humphries, damion james and a bunch of mid 1st-round picks aren’t going to cut it. i’d much rather let carmelo’s contract expire and make him, william the weasel and CAA deal with the fact that they aren’t going to get paid while getting a ton of cap space and working with that. i hope stan keeps up his stance of hardball with them and doesn’t budge on terrible trade offers and forces melo to play out the season.
Then you probably don't want to deal with our hated Knicks, who can only offer their 2014 1st round pick and unproven Gallinari.
Your best hope is that Melo continues to be stupid and deal with WWW rather than to be patient and pick out a single team to demand a S&T.
It’s in Melo’s best interest that the team he goes to isn’t “gutted” due to the trade that sends him there. That is if Melo really is interested in contending for a championship or just trying to satisfy his wife’s request to be in an “entertainment” city.
Melo of course can refuse any S&T that Denver wants and choose the offer that he likes.
We do agree though, in terms of a nice place to live, Denver wins out. Melo doesn’t seem to appreciate that and you can thank LaLa for that. She is from New Jersey, but has relatives in Brooklyn/New York area. Melo was born in Brooklyn but grew up in Baltimore. The Nets should have the advantage, but Clippers are also possible.
based on all the reports
my money’s on him just trying to cater to the following individuals:
1. lala
2. william the weasel and CAA
3. (reportedly) his own ego
because if he truly cared about winning, he would either stick it out with the nuggets, or demand a trade to an actual contender and not the entertainment hotbeds. my opinion of him at this point has soured considerably because of this whole situation. i thought he was better than that, but from the looks of things, i was damn well wrong.
that’s just my 2 cents on the whole situation.
You are probably correct on all points, but if he worked at a favorable deal with Nets (and possibly Clippers) they would be contending teams too in another year.
He has good reason to believe that Nuggets are getting old, and team is starting season with a bunch of injuries.
Lakers and especially Heat should be set for a long time, so all anyone else can do is to “contend”, but not Win.
Besides, the so called currently “contending” teams may not have as much young talent and decent 1st round picks as you would want.
Nets got some 1st round picks when you got KMart, and Nets eventually turned them into Vince Carter a year later.
Lottery picks aren’t worthless.
only because toronto management was absolutely inept
and vince carter had played his value to an all-time low, whereas carmelo anthony is a borderline top 5 player.
the pau gasol trade was the exception more than anything else, and even the grizzlies got decent value out of that one. look at the garnett and allen trades. the twolves and sonics managed to extract some extremely solid young pieces out of those.
so yea, when offers of terrence williams, damion james, kris humphries and a bunch of mid-1st round picks are being thrown at our faces, especially when compared to the deals above, don’t expect pleasant reactions.
If Gallinari's performance is unproven
Then his upside must be insane. He’s not the be-all and end-all, but he is a rock solid shooter for sure, right now. I agree that Gallo and a 2014 1st is a crappy package (and I’m sure they can offer more than that), but to call Gallinari unproven after touting the value of TWill is a little unfair. I guess, potential and value are always up for debate.
Somebody help me out here, how much can other teams offer Melo per year, max?
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Melo would have to approve of any deal in a S&T scenario. Its not up to Denver alone.
Melo wants his $65 million, but he also wants to go to the city of his choice (his wife’s choice) and wants the team he goes to, to not be gutted by his being traded.
However, not getting a deal done before the trade deadline is much worse for Denver. Only the Knicks benefit by doing nothing.
And without doing a S&T, no team would offer much to rent Melo for the rest of the season and let him become an unrestricted FA.
ok, jerry, so you see where I am going with this
but do you know what the answer is? Then I can actually evaluate the leverage (or lack thereof) that we’re talking about here. In other words, I wasn’t trying to insinuate anything, I actually don’t know what the answer is.
“However, not getting a deal done before the trade deadline is much worse for Denver. Only the Knicks benefit by doing nothing.”
You mean much worse for Denver than the Knicks, right? as opposed to much worse for Denver than for Melo? Also, let’s not forget about all of the other teams in the conversation.
No one knows the answer my friend
Because we have no idea what the CBA will be like except that its widely expected for salaries to decrease, which means Melo will make a lot less
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
ok,
what about the current maximum? At least I can extrapolate roughly from there…
The current max for a player in Melo’s position (ie. 7-9 years of experience) is about $17.4M. So if he signed a 4 year FA contract this offseason with someone other than the Nuggets, he could make about $73-74M (I’m guestimating with raises). The current Nuggets proposal is $83M. With the new CBA, who knows, that $73-74M might be south of $70M. Or it might be same the same. It’s a pure guessing game at this point.
thanks
not as disparate as I thought it might be, but still a considerable chunk.
he's understating the diffence, massively
The four years would be $80 Million under the current CBA. The new CBA will very likely cut the number to resign with your own team drastically. It will not go up, or even be close to the current number. He could easily be looking at a $60 million max to resign, and with the owners intent on ending this problem, either a franchise tag that prevents movement of one player entirely, or a massive financial penalty for changing teams. If the extension with your own team is reduced to $60 milllion in the new CBA, you could see it reduced to $40 to $50 million to change teams. That’s $30 to $40 million less, and a big stick in negotiations with Melo.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 27, 2010 4:36 PM MDT up reply actions
You might be absolutely right
But at this point, we simply don’t know. There’s a lot of rumors going around but there’s nothing definitive. The Player’s Union is certainly going to point to this year’s much higher than expected cap number as a sign that things are looking up for the owners so the new CBA won’t be as crippling to player contracts as some believe. Who knows?
The only thing I feel reasonably confident about is there’s no way Melo is going to take that risk. There’s no real reason to. He’s signing this extension one way or another, in a Nuggets jersey or not.
It all about #3 pick
You are spot on. Trade conversations start/end with inclusion of Favors. If NJ would rather Denver trade Melo to a different team, that can be accomplished.
After all, Favors is no more than pie-in-the-sky. Melo’s proven. What silly fantasy to think you wouldn’t have to include #3.
There is really no record of any team giving up their #3 pick or higher for an older star player.
It would be setting a new precedence if Nets gave up a #3 pick (with a 15 year future) for someone who is already proving to be a problem star, with attitude issues and who maybe slowing down in a few years.
Sounds like you don't want Melo in the first place...
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
yeah, I don't get the "problem star" comment
and wait a minute… you guys have a #3? There’s no way we’re not asking for that. I’m with SunValleyNug; any deal has to include that 3, or no deal.
I remember when we had the #3 pick… sigh.
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:51 PM MDT up reply actions
oh, nevermind
sure, he’d be great, but I’m not dead set on him.
Yeah,
I was pretty sure the Rockets had better picks…
+1
I think the Rockets might have more they’d be willing to offer us than other teams. But the question in my mind is, do we want to take on more long term contracts that may not pan out? That pushes inevitable rebuilding with young talent out a few years, prolonging the pain and leading to the same inevitable outcome.
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions
jeez
[slaps forehead] how could anyone know the exact number the pick will be… durh!
not the #33 but just what three years ago Boston gave up the #5
for an aging Ray Allen, so lets not be silly and think the #3 isn’t worth Melo in his prime
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
If we can't get a great trade....
… make Melo play out his contract and give up millions of dollars under the new CBA, and then use the extra cap space to rebuild after next season. This might be our last chance to win a championship if Bird and K-Mart can come back healthy for the last half of the season.
QPU # 2.
what picks do the clippers have to offer?
if NJ isn’t gonna give up favors at least I say we go after kaman+bench guys plus some 1st rounders. i doubt we’d pry griffin or gordon away. we don’t need an athletic swingman, guys like that are a dime a dozen. we need a 20 and 10 big with size.
Ahem, Clippers fan here...
First off, any trade for Melo (because of cap) would have to include Kaman. Griffin is off the table.
But to answer your question, we have the TWolves 1st rd pick which becomes unprotected in 2012 = likely top 5 pick.
From Clips Nation blog, the consensus “best offer” we have is Kaman + Aminu + Twolves pick. How’s that sound compared to the Nets’ offers above?
We may be willing to throw in Troy Murphy (instead of Hump) and take back JR Smith. And the TWO 1st round draft picks + $3 million stands.
Remember, we are only acting GM, until Billy King returns from vacation.
add in another 1st
and id like that
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
by 808inDenver on Aug 27, 2010 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions
I think that is possible, we have a protected 1st rd pick that is owed to OKC which may be problematic...
But I think it is workable (I’m not an expert on what’s allowed or not)
You know why that sucks!
Because I really wanted Kaman and Melo together in Denver, that’s why. Dang, why can’t I get everything I want when I want it.
yes but
melos come out about every 3 years ie melo then durant then wes johnson. bigs not so much so i’d take favors or lopez or griffin and then go draft me another small forward in a couple years. fuck, one of those bigs running with lawson at point and having harrington being able to hit the outside shot in order to open the floor. Thats a pretty good team. My dream scenario would be:
Denver sends Kenyon Martin, JR SMith, Melo to LAC
LAC sends Griffin, Gordon and a bullshit contract to Den
Billups, Lawson
Gordon, AAA
Harrington
Nene
Griffin, Birdman
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Aug 27, 2010 12:18 PM MDT up reply actions
There 0% chance the Clippers will send Gordon and Griffin. You should just prepare yourself for a letdown now.
oh i know
i said that was my dream scenario
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Aug 27, 2010 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions
in that case
that wasn’t nearly far-fetched enough!
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions
The clippers won't send Griffin OR Gordon at all
Kaman is not a bad a player and is definitley one of the best TRUE centers in the league, he has a great post up game and last season added a very consistent mid range shot. As long as Kaman isn’t your #1 option he makes a great piece.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
yes,
the thought of this irony has been killing me, and it will probably happen.
by deezNuggets on Aug 27, 2010 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions
it's shit
what don’t you get about the nuggets saying they want young talent in return. kamen ain’t young. denver will demand griffin from la… if they don’t do it there will be plenty more offers elsewhere. the ball is in denver’s court…. not la’s
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Aug 27, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Aminu and a pick is "young talent"
…and it’s not like Kaman is old, he’s in his prime.
And no one’s forcing Denver to trade with the Clips, no need to lash out. Personally, I think Denver needs to do what Kupchak did with Kobe’s summer meltdown a few years ago.
Sorry haha
didn’t mean to lash out just statin my opinion but yea Denver could do that, but Kobe kinda runs his own show. He makes his own decisions. Melo also has his annoying ass wife, his agent and dumb ass best friend all talkin in his ears about different places and possibilities and I don’t think Denver is one of those places and Melo will make a decision more off everyone around him rather than for himself and winning a championship. I think get him to agree to a deal, sign him to teh max contract for teh other team and then make the deal ASAP. It’s rebuild mode now… start sooner rather than later.
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Aug 27, 2010 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
kaman is the only big we are likely to get
i wouldn’t mind having him and a potential top 5 draft pick in 2012 to go with some younger talent like aminu
Kaman has value around the league
Even if you don’t believe Kaman fits in our with rebuilding plans, I think the Nuggets could easily move him for another good young piece and a draft pick. Teams are always looking for competent centers and Kaman is certainly above average.
So if the Nuggets ended up getting Aminu, the Wolves 2012 1st, a Clippers 2014 1st, and then trade Kaman for something like Austin Daye or Greg Monroe + a future 1st. Nuggets end up with 3 future firsts, one having a pretty good chance of being quite high (Wolves), Aminu and Daye or Monroe. If you want to rebuild, that’s a pretty good haul for a player.
Aminu is the clippers 1st round pick
he is a SF with great length and was defensive player of the year in his conference. He is also a great rebounder and thrives in the open court. He is a bit of a project but has tons of upside.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Kaman and Gordon for Melo
straight up
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
yeah Gordon is beloved over on clipsnation
and I think the org values him alot especially after his great play for Team USA. Eric Pincus (clippers hoopsworld writer) has been saying that the clippers might prefer keeping Gordon and passing on Melo.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Whatever, I'm done with Carmelo
We have a great team, a Championship worthy team, and he couldn’t get us over the hump. Look who Stan brought in.
It’s going to suck everytime Carmelo and his future team comes to the Pepsi Center, but whatever. Does Anthony really believe he’s going to win it all in NY? With the Clippers? The Nets? Rockets? Pft, give me a break.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
What if this is all posturing by CAA? And when Melo returns from China, he decides to sign the extension?
Will you let him back in the fold?
Dear Rockies - Please finish ahead of the hated Giants
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all. ( Please don't kill us wherever you play)
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Of course!
As of right now, he’s a Nugget. He’s done nothing but great things there. I don’t hate the guy.
It’s just upsetting to hear that he wants to leave. It’s also upsetting to know the truth, he couldn’t get us to the Promise Land.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
yeah
hes gonna sign the extension then get traded! LMAO
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
by 808inDenver on Aug 27, 2010 12:01 PM MDT up reply actions
It's BS
He’s trying to stay on the fence and it’s geting annoying. All these rumors are coming out and you know where there is smoke…
I wish he would just man up and say it like it is. He doesn’t want to be a nugget anymore, he is just scared of the media backlash form the lebron stuff.
How do you know it's not a way to drum up advertising deals and stay in Denver.
All this free press and then he becomes the white knight and re-signs with Denver. He’ll make a buttload of commercials and billions of $$$ to go with it. Maybe that’s his plan.
"honestly believe"
versus “willing to not completely rule out”
It sure sounds awesome.
He's going
to have to wait to win no matter what, unless he gets traded a contender (boston, heat, lakeshow, orlando)
So it’s wait to gel w/ another team, or wait till nuggs get some cap space and bring in some other players, either way it’s not looking like a bball decision, it’s looking like a bright light decision
The truth is:
- Stan does not care if had to keep Carmelo in Denver … to fuck with CAA;
- Neither LA or NJ can afford to hire him as a free agent next season (both crap teams);
- If they want to have Carmelo on the team NOW (only chance), they must send a package with good players and picks….. Much more effort.
Otherwise he will be a a Knick next season and compensate the low salary with advertisement money…
That´s my opinion. Greetings from Rio de Janeiro. Sorry about my english.
Go Nuggets!!!
How low are the chances
Melo is not traded and Nuggets have a good year. Then in the off-season with a ton of cap room around the Nugs sign some big names while the Knicks and Nets continue to not look so strong. Melo decides signing with the Nugs is by far his best option and takes a deal. I’d say 5% but you never know.
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
we wont have cap room
unless melo leaves. JR+Kmart coming off the books, we’re still over the cap.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
That's 24 mil coming off the books
I’m pretty sure there will be cap room
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
our payroll is at $83M right now
so really, as much as we want to add big men, we can say stan is being cheap. we have the 4th highest payroll in the league currently.
its $23M coming off the books, which gets us down to $60M. salary cap is at $58M this season.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
Does that include if the FO doesn't pick up CB1's option and pushes him to resign for less?
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions
NO
the 60M is inlcuding billups $14M. so if we dump him and pay his guaranteed $3.7, we’ll be under.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
Not to put more holes in your plan...
But the 2011 crop of big men free agents is highlighted by the following:
Tyson Chandler, Zach Randolph, Eddy Curry.
Enjoy.
@bananda
The problem with Clippers is owner Donald Sterling.
Would Melo/WWW trust their future to Donald Sterling?
Check out this NBC article from today, that discusses Nets/Clippers. They conclude he should stay in Denver:
Meanwhile, Nets have one of the 30 richest people in the world as owner, who also is “The World’s Most Interesting Person” and recently was praising LeBron and his Associates (very smart).
“Just call me Mike” Prokhorov would fly in from Moscow to meet with and take Melo out to a $30,000 dinner.
He would even go out dancing with him after.
Yeah especially since Russian Cuban's "big move"
was clipper reject Outlaw, 3rd string PG Farmar and trading for Troy Murphy.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
LOL
Look at all you stiffs now! Refer to my fanpost of a couple weeks ago on how to handle the Melo situation. Looks a lot better now doesn’t it? Fuck Melo and his group of fucking morons. I’m tired of the inmates running the asylum. It needs to end now.
No it still looks like an awful idea
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
agreed
that remains one of the most horrible ideas I’ve heard from you, Gas, or anyone, for that matter.
+1 Still awful
Anyone who has ever had employees knows that would be a disaster.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 27, 2010 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions
in addition to draft picks, other assets to consider are unsigned 2nd round picks
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/draft/unsigneddraftpicks.jsp
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Melo - Yellow - Jello vs the Front office
I think Melo is awesome but the team has shown no interest in a real front office and that starts with the owners who have shown no interest in spending any money or being serious. When you are cheap you lose good players. I am an avid fan, and I could do a better job of running the team. I could definitely keep Melo here. But let Stan and his new man have a shot. When your season ticket sales drop AND they will… So sad, so much potential and you pick ANOTHER former Nugget organization member to run the team. JUST SPEND SOME MONEY. Stop being cheap, I promise it will pay off… Melo – good luck but you are really no better than James, no allegiance, no backbone, no honor!!!! You are thug like most of the players in the NBA. High paid gang bangers. It’s sad when you look at Kobe as somewhat of a Role mode… Michael Jordon – Larry Bird… where are you… we need you badly…
by Nuggetfan on Aug 27, 2010 3:11 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
we have the 4th highest payroll in the NBA
$83M.
sure stan went cheap on the GM, but does that really matter? Josh and Bearup are gonna be running the FO anyway.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
Another Net Fan.... Sorry to take over!
This has probably been said before, but I think NJ at most would offer (or my highest offer would be)
Terrance Williams
Damion James
Troy Murphy
2012 GS #1
2011 NJ #1
2011 GS #2
2012 NJ #2
$3m Cash
$3.5m Trade Exception
for
Melo
Balkman
I do not believe Favors, or especially Lopez will be offered.
Denver
Billups / Lawson / Carter
Afflalo / T.Williams / JR Smith
D. James / A.Harrington
Murphy / K.Martin / Sh.Williams
Nene / Andersen
New Jersey
Harris / Farmar / Uzoh
Morrow / Q.Ross
Anthony / Outlaw / Balkman
Favors / Humphries / May
Lopez / Petro / Zoubek
Out of curiosity have fans of other teams such as LAC or Houston, come on here to make similar or better offers?
Houston was last week
This week is the Nyets.
I’m guessing LA Cripple fans will be the locust of next week.
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 3:31 PM MDT up reply actions
What Did Houston Offer?
Just curious.
Also do think Carmela-la would agree to an extend and trade to Houston?
I assume their offer was based upon an extended Melo and not a 1 year rental.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions
All H-towners on this blog did propose with a sign-and-trade
Gasus, a Nuggets fan, had what I thought was a compelling trade idea with picks plus Kevin Martin and Scola. Don’t remember, with salaries, if that meant Denver had to ship someone with Melo, but a few H-towners seemed to like that trade.
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 3:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Damn if Houston trades Kevin Martin and Scola
Melo is definitely not signing an extension with them, Yao looks like he might just fall and not get up soon.
That's what I said about Yao and they didn't like it
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I wouldnt say that
Our starting lineup would still be solid. Yao, Hill or Patterson, Melo, Lee, and Brooks. We also would keep Buddinger and the Knicks picks. Yeah, we would like this trade, atleast I would. But it goes against everything the Nugs are looking for. I said Kevin Martin, Chase Buddinger, and a pick for Melo and people said it was crazy.
Of course the reply was Martin, Bud, Patterson, both knicks picks, 6 mil TE for Birdman and Melo. I really hate to see the crash and burn on some nug fans face when this goes down. I think you guys will get substantially less than you think.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 28, 2010 1:59 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also
Yao looked really good in practice last week. I doubt he will be the 20-10 guy he was, but 16-10 isnt out of the question.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
Do you guys want Martin and Scola with their long-term deals?
Seems like a rebuild would be in order with Melo gone.
Martin + Scola seems like mediocrity to me.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 3:58 PM MDT up reply actions
With Martin and Scola (and pick(s))
the thinking would be that we get an efficient big man (something we always needed) and replace some of the scoring we would lose. Without Melo, we still have a strong cast that those additions would compliment.
The flavor of the day seems to have switched from ‘cope’ to ‘burn down the house’ on this blog since the Woj article. I guess I’m on the fence: if the right players came through in a sign and trade, I’d say don’t blow the Nugs up, but it may be the case (like if we dealt with Nyets bloggers playing GM) that a team only wants to give us big matching contracts for trash, in which case I think we say no as to not prolong the pain of a bloated payroll.
by Artimus Mangilord on Aug 27, 2010 4:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree Artimus in that I’m on the fence. We’d still be a pretty good team with Martin/Scola in the mix instead of Melo. But championship? Pretty unlikely. So it then becomes do you just want to remain relevant and contend for playoffs or really just blow it up and start praying for a high lottery pick/players received to turn things around. I’m usually in the camp that championships are the only things that matter but man, those pre-Melo years were pretty unbearable. If I see a Junior Harrington clone running around on the Nuggets team in a couple of years, I might just cry myself to sleep.
Was Melo your only top pick those pre-Melo years?
Just wondering what happened to the rest.
Poor drafting?
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Lots of poor drafting
1998 – Raef Lafrentz
1999 – James Posey
2000 -Mamadou N’diaye
2001 – no pick
2002 – Nikoloz Tskitishvili
In 02 – also trade Frank Williams and McDyess to NY for Camby and Nene.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 27, 2010 5:04 PM MDT up reply actions
From what we’ve read, Melo has put Houston on his list of preferred destinations so I would assume if its on his list, he would agree to an extension there.
The offers I’ve seen are basically revolving around Brooks/Battier/Jeffries/Hill or Patterson + the Knicks 2012 pick. Or something around Martin/Jeffries/Hill or Patterson + the Knicks pick. I don’t believe Scola could be traded until December 15th but I would need confirmation on that.
roster imbalance
i rally hope we don’t do something like that
sometimes the big name prevents people from looking at the bigger picture. Depth and roster balance are also important factors
we can’t go into the season with Ross as our back up 2, esp with Morrow starting. the backcourt rotation would be really poor.
they weren’t comfortable with Favors starting, that’s why they brought in Troy, we can’t go into the season with Humphries and May backing up a raw Favors who isn’t ready to start
Harris and/or Farmar....
Will play minutes at 2 so they can play at the same time. Uzoh is a shooter as well.
And finding a SG should not be too hard.
As for the PF position.
Favors/Humphries/May/Outlaw
could all platoon the position.
How do we make salaries match without Murphy or Harris? I don’t think we can.
And, this does not have to be the final project. With another off-season under our belts, I’m confident we could be contenders. Rome was not built in one day.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 3:52 PM MDT up reply actions
As I posted earlier, both Nuggets and Nets fans would be better off if Mello could delay until later in the year when more suitable players would be available.
Most of the Nets fans would MUCH prefer to send you a “proven” player like Travis Outlaw ($7 million) and take our chances with the inexpensive DJames. However, Outlaw, Morrow, Farmar and Petro aren’t available for trade until Dec. 15. You could also have Farmar (3.7 million), and we would love to retain Terrence Williams, if you think he is too risky.
BTW, Jack, I calculated that Nets should be 4.2 million under the cap at this moment, so they might not need as much salary in a trade as you think. Humphries would get the Nets close, without giving up Murphy, who is ideal to bring along Favors.
PS. I forget about the $3.5 million dollar trade exception the Nets have, which expires next June.
If the trade is to happen before December 15th
Then I think Harris or Murphy do need to be included.
Humphries only makes about $3.2m.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes, but you have to consider that Nets could absorb $4.2 million in Melo's salary. I showed that calculations at NetsDaily.
If correct, only about 8.6 million total has to go for Melo and TWill+DJames+Hump gets you only about 2.2 million away. Our Asst. GM may know of some former player to include, to get the needed balance.
Also, not sure what Jarvis Hayes would bring, if he wasn’t renounced.
I'm all for finding away not include Murphy
And I did mention on ND maybe they can use Hayes.
So…
T.Williams
D.James
J. Hayes
K. Humphries
2012 GS #1
2011 NJ #1
2011 GS #2
2012 NJ #2
$3m Cash
Large TPE
Looks even better for both teams assuming it can be done. Denver could get out from under the tax, and end up with 8 picks to look forward to in 2011 and 2012 (assuming they do not owe any of theirs)
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 4:43 PM MDT up reply actions
That's not correct
You can’t function as both an over the cap team & an under the cap team in the same transaction. In order to deal for Anthony, they’d have to send out at least roughly $12.95mil in salary.
Because of that, it’s most likely that one of Harris or Murphy would have to be included, unless they can get away with a Hayes sign & trade, where Hayes would have to sign for close to all of our remaining cap space (about $4mil). The deal would have to include a second year that’s only partially guaranteed. There could be a wink-wink deal with Hayes where he’d have a prearranged buyout amount with the Nuggets, that the Nets could supply the cash for.
There’s an old saying that you know a trade is fair when both sides feel they got the short end of the stick.
As a realistic Nets fan, I understand that we’ll have to give up one of our promising bigs, most likely that big would be Favors.
Regarding the Nets, I think the anatomy of a realistic, fair offer would include:
A) 1 of the following key pieces: Lopez or Favors
B) 1 of the following big money cap fillers: Outlaw (Dec. 15th), Murphy or Harris
C) Other potential small money cap fillers, e.g. Humphries, Ross, Hayes
D) Potential sweeteners: Picks, TWill, James
Some disclaimers:
1) There’s no way I can see the Nets giving up a Lopez+Harris combo
2) The Nets would probably only give up Lopez if Outlaw were the big money filler, which could only happen in December.
3) Obviously the combo of A&B would impact what potential sweeteners are included.
The Nets could give you 3 first rounders over the next 3 years (Our 2011 & 2013, and the GS 2012), but it sounds like you’d prefer current players over picks. Fans typically do, but GMs offer think otherwise.
I think in theory, the Nets could construct a deal around Favors that wouldn’t include Harris or Murphy. That would probably be the closest middle ground for both teams. Such a deal would include Favors+TWill+Humphries+Hayes+James/Ross(if needed). Maybe some picks change hands. Maybe a 3rd team with cap space is brought into the mix to lower Denver’s tax number (e.g. Ross, Hayes or Humphries plus cash to buy them out and/or 2nd rounder to Sacramento). More than likely though, I believe Murphy or Harris would have to be included.
That's spot on...
with what I believe will be the Nets package if they end up getting Melo. Favors/T-Will/Hump/Hayes/junk filler and I’d prefer GS’s 2012 1st but would accept a lottery protected 1st from NJ in 2011. I’d be more than willing to throw in Denver’s 2nd rounder in 2011 to bring back GS’s 2012 1st.
Favors maybe, Lopez no
But really what would NJ have to beat?
NY
Curry+Randolph+Gallo
seems to be all they can offer
LAC
Kaman+Aminu+Minny #1+LAC #1
seems to be what LAC fans are willing to offer
Houston
Too many combinations to speculate on, but it seems NY’s picks would be the centerpiece, along with some combination of expirers + Budinger + J.Hill
If Favors goes from NJ, I don’t think much more needs to go (other than filler), but I really would like to see a better offer (from a non-Nugget fan) than:
Terrance Williams
Damien James
Troy Murphy
2012 GS #1
2011 NJ #1
2011 GS #2
2012 NJ #2
$3m
$3.5m TPE
for
Melo
Balkman
Again history does not support that players get equal value or major return in trade, especially one who is:
1. In the final year of a contract and could be an unrestricted free agent
2. Has a “team” of people that let it be known that he does not want to stay
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions
You speak like those are bad offers.
Galinari & Randolph are proven commodities with some potential. Maybe not as much potential, but starter potential none the less.
The Clippers offer you posted equates to a top 10 center & 3 likely late lottery picks/mid teens picks.
Houston’s potential packages aren’t great for a rebuilding team, but they’re solid.
Those are all solid potential offers. Yes, typically teams don’t get fair value for disgruntled stars, but if there is a bidding war, which there likely would be, because he’s in his prime, you have to beat those other offers.It’s not a matter of giving the Nuggets something decent. It’s a matter of giving them a better package than those other teams. Open bidding wars like this get expensive, but as a Nets fan could you live with watching Melo star as a Knick because we wouldn’t give that extra pick or role player?
Two Things
1. This isn’t about a role player, it’s about Favors or Lopez.
2. If there is a deal, it would be a mutually satisfying deal. Melo and his “team” will like where he is going and Denver will like what they get. I have a feeling there will be no clear best trade, rather perhaps the easiest and a still good/great one.
ok more things
3. TBH.. Melo on NY wouldn’t bother me. More villans on NY.
I don’t really like Melo the persona.. the media drama, the high maintenance wife, the image, etc.. I read the way several fans on here talk about him. It sounds like J.Kidd all over in many respects. I’m not bank everything on him. Lopez and Favors are our everything.
4. Paying Melo 3/65 may be a major risk for any team and no great honor no matter how well he plays.. esp. with the new CBA.
5. I would be 100% against trading Lopez and only trading Favors if Outlaw was traded as well on or after December 15th.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
For me, the bottom line is any NJ deal has to include Favors (I assume Lopez is untouchable) simply because I don’t believe T-Will/James have any sort of franchise potential and have serious red flags. I’ve debated to death on this thread my reasoning behind this. If T-Will/James is the best the Nets can offer, I would take any of the other viable offers including the Knicks with Gallo/Randolph/picks, the Clips with Kaman/Aminu/Clips picks package, or most of the packages from Houston. If somehow the Clippers want to include Griffin (I see that being about a 1% chance), or Gordon (like a 15% chance), that deal is a slam dunk. I understand why the Nets don’t want to give him up but to be honest, he’s literally the only piece (other than Lopez) I’d want from that team. If they don’t want to part with him, I understand and we move on to the next team’s offer. I do believe the Nets will ultimately offer him though and the Nets will be the winning bid. Just my feeling.
TheNetsFan is absolutely right though. Yes, Melo wants out. However, he did the Nuggets a favor by including a list of teams, not 1 team. Hence bidding. For Melo’s faults, I think there’s very little argument he’s a top 10-12 player in the league and he’s entering the prime of his career. For all of Favors’s potential, he has ultimately accomplished nothing and is certainly no sure-fire guy like a John Wall.
I also see zero chance of the Nets moving Outlaw’s contract short of them pairing it with Lopez. I was dumbfounded the Nets gave it to him (a distant second place goes to the Petro contract, enjoy him). Honestly, that is one of the ten worst contracts in the league and he hasn’t played a minute of it yet. Talk about buyer’s remorse.
Both Petro's and Outlaw's are horrible.
I guess when you have a billionaire hotshot owner, you can afford to take on horrible contracts- at least to distract your fan base about missing out on the summer sweepstakes.
Thank You
My thinking is that a clips package has to include Blake griffin OR eric gordon + alot of sweetener. Also, something to keep in mind nets fans, Blake Griffin was the undisputed #1 overall last year, this year, Favors was anything but a sure thing @ 3. He may very well turn out to be the 2nd best big man in the top 5 of this draft behind DMC. He will most definitely be worse than DMC for the next 4 years, guaranteed.
Don't be silly, Griffin is untouchable
Not only that, he is worth more than Anthony.
Consensus #1 pick last year
Much younger
Much cheaper for much longer
Talent to be where Melo is among PFs.
Not about the be a UNRFA
Not unhappy with his situation
Not asking for 3/65 in a new CBA
Gordon on the other hand, is expendable, but then you probably lose picks/Aminu.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure you could have put in Oden’s name instead of Griffin there a couple of years back and come up with the exact same list. Then both players went and missed their rookie years.
Young bigs are the biggest question mark in the draft process. There’s a reason why guys like Sam Bowie get taken over Michael Jordan. There’s a reason why Oden gets taken over Durant. There’s a reason why a guy like Olowonkandi goes 1st overall. That’s why ultimately, while I understand the love affair with Favors, that they’ll part with him. Big men, no matter how dominant they might seem, are ultimately scratch tickets.
I made this list AFTER Griffin missed his rookie year.
I think his status as untouchable still stands. Griffin, unlike, Oden had no history of injuries, and this does not seem related to his massive body, unlike Oden.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions
No history of injuries? The dude jumped, landed “normal” and missed the entire year with a ruptured knee cap. Oden didn’t have an injury history either at the time except for his broken wrist which certainly isn’t a red flag as it wasn’t in his lower body, the real area of concern for big men.
Griffin's knee was already injured before the dunk
he went knee to knee with Craig Smith in training camp and his knee was never allowed to heal fully. From video of this years summer league practice (he didn’t play with the team but he did practice) he seems to be at 100%. Also major difference between Oden and Griffin is that Oden tore ligaments while Griffin broke his knee, ligament tears lead to future injuries while a Broken knee is just like any other bone and doesn’t lead to any other injuries so long as the surgery is done correctly (also bright spot of the surgery was that the doctor was able to remove some pretty nasty bone spurs that may have become a problem down the line)
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Ummm..
You’re not making your case any better. So he already injured his knee in a play that happens a hundred times a year. Then he injured it worst by jumping and landing which happens a thousand times a year. Then you’re saying he already had some pretty nasty bone spurs in the knee. I have no clue how that’s a bright spot. We’re not talking about a bruised thigh or a pulled hammy here. And from what I’ve read, it wasn’t the knee cap itself that was messed up, they did surgery on the patella tendon. Tendons are usually pretty useful but hey, I’m no doctor.
Bottom line is with any athletic (or non-athletic even, just more so with athletic) bigs, anytime you hear about a knee, ankle, or foot problem/surgery, that’s a major, major red flag. It’s not easy being that tall and carrying that much weight on two sticks and a handful of joints that collectively weigh about 5 pounds. For every Dwight Howard or Shaq who goes through his career relatively injury-free, there’s a laundry list of big men who have serious injuries associated with their lower body which seriously limit their play (either in ability or playing time) or never allow them to play at all.
I'd also add...
Griffin sprained his left MCL in January of 2008. He had torn cartilage in his right knee and surgery in March of 2008. He then busts his left knee cap in summer of 2009. If I’m counting this right, that’s three knee injuries in 18 months. If that’s not a bright red flag to you, I don’t know what is.
That’s not even including his concussion in Feb 2009 or his strained right shoulder in early summer 2009.
That isn't a red flag
those are all separate non serious injuries, the sprained MCL is a common injury that is non recurring, and the two other injuries are on opposite knes. And only the 3rd injury caused him to miss any major amount of time.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
Especially with bigs. Like Tchizza said, they are scratch tickets.
Yikes, I honestly believe Outlaw to be a liability with his contract rather than an asset. And it’ll be a cold day before we take Petro back even excluding his 3 year contract. Farmar is… Farmar. Morrow is the best player/value in that group simply because he’s such a terrific shooter but even then, he’s a pretty borderline starter. As much as I ragged on T-Will and James earlier, they’re leaps and bounds worth more than any of the FA’s you just signed as they’re younger, have higher ceilings, and smaller contracts. Sorry, but the Dec. 15 thing will no have bearing on a trade with the Nets. Other teams however would come into play.
Come mid December, you will find out that Outlaw, DJames, TWill and even Farmar and Petro will be worth more that you currently think.
They will all be given a chance to prove themselves with a very determined new coach.
Devin Harris especially will be improved, playing for his teacher again.
I’ll let Avery Johnson speak for himself. He personally requested Travis Outlaw:
.
Devin is my boy. So is Terrence and I really like Damion.
You Nuggets fans, just give me until Mid December and I’ll get you some talented players. Outlaw is gonna do well in my system.
However, you can forget bout Favors.
I have to agree with Denver fans
For now.. Outlaw is not exactly a desirable contract.
Then again neither is
David Lee
Amare
Rudy Gay
Joe Johnson
Drew Gooden
etc..
As in most of the contracts handed out this summer.
He will have to show he was worth it, and even then it is fairly long and large.
Out of the contracts we signed I think the best values were…
Morrow
Farmar
Outlaw
Petro
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
If the poster above from a Clippers blog is being legit in saying their blog community is willing to offer Kaman, Aminu, and the Wolves 2012 1st rounder, that’d be my leading one so far.
Houston’s packages are a bit murkier as its hard to define them as rebuilding or retooling because most of their packages include Martin or Brooks. In general though, I also favor those over the Nets package because of that potential lottery ticket known as the 2012 Knicks first rounder. I favor the Knicks 2012 pick over the Golden State 2012 pick because there’s slightly lower draft protections on the Knicks pick and I believe Amare is gonna blow out his knee again so the Knicks will worse than Golden State.
So Your Basing Your Trade/Pick Preferences
On the chance Amare’s knee blows out?
Keep in mind NY will also be able to add a max contract next summer.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 3:44 PM MDT up reply actions
I also believe Golden State will be a better team with Curry/Ellis/Lee. So not only do I believe GS will be the better team but I think Amare will blow out a knee making a bad team even worse making for a better draft pick. I can’t tell the future, I can only guess based on the facts at hand and that leads me to believe GS will be better than NY. You can argue either way.
Fair Enough
I think many people see NY sneaking into the playoffs this year as a 7/8 seed, and again will have a lot of cap space next summer. I think with Walsh in charge they are making the right moves and are where the want to be.
I don’t see GS succeeding in the West any time soon, and their ownership seems comfortable saving money (Morrow, Magette) rather than improving the roster. They may have also wasted a lotto pick this season on Udoh.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Golden State also does have a new owner. Only time will tell how committed he is to winning and what he’s willing to spend but I can’t see him as being any worse than the previous one.
Did the New Owner..
Decline matching Morrow (a very reasonable deal) and trade Magette for useless expirers?
I honestly do not know if it was new or old ownership.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 27, 2010 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Why would I do THAT
For what you are offering, the Nuggets can pick up as free agents or any number of ways. Why would you even suspect that is all Denver wants in return for Melo.
Oh, sorry, you were intending that as comedy hour. Good one, my bad.
I'm no troll
I just haven’t posted here in forever because the Nuggets team last year pissed me off so much that I pretty much stopped caring about them. I for one think the day we get rid of Melo, Kenyon, and J.R. will be a great day for the franchise. It would be naive to say it will be easy to replace their talent (at least in Melo’s case) but we were NEVER gonna win a championship with these guys. I would personally rather rebuild with a team full of guys who play team basketball, play defense, and hustle than lose in the first round of the playoffs with a cluster-f team of horrifically over paid, injury prone, primadonna criminals like we did last year.
Oh, YOU'RE the guy nostalgic for Buzz's 2002-2003 squad!
Maybe we can even get Junior Harrington to make a comeback!
I mean, seriously, I'd like a meteor to hit Carmelo's place in L.A. tomorrow, but if you build a team of 'team guys'...
…well, you get that, or maybe the 2009-10 Pacers
Fine with me!
I know I represent the minority opinion, but really, I’d rather watch a less talented team next year play team basketball and maybe over-achieve their way to 35-45 wins than tear my hair out watching these bums under-achieve all season and then flame out in the first round of the playoffs. I understand it was a big deal back in 03-04 to make the playoffs after sucking for so long but who really cares any more if they have zero chance to be a championship team? I’d rather root for a team I actually like rather than one that may have more talent but doesn’t give a crap.
I'd rather be an '80s-90s Portland than a team that keeps tanking the season if it's in danger of pulling an 8 or 9 seed.
I’ve seen what this place does with consecutive losing seasons in a GOOD economy. Draw 4 figures in a Depression and there’s a VERY good chance we’re watching the Team-Soon-to-be-the-Seattle-Supersonics.
My loyalty is based on ‘local team’; I THINK that’s as far as “I will always pull for Denver teams”, rather than “I will always pull for teams based where I live”, but there’s a non-trivial chance that the two will always be the same in my lifetime. WHEN, not ‘if’, the team moves to Seattle, I’m not only not going to transfer my allegiance; I’m going to quit watching the NBA altogether unless, sometime around 2030, we manage to steal some other unlucky team—and even then it’ll never be the one I grew up with. I do NOT want that happening, but if we pull another ‘90-2003 run, I’m pretty sure it will—and possibly even within the first five years.
Whether you like it or not, borderline playoff teams sell tickets in both the regular season and the playoffs; tanking-to-rebuild teams, and even just-bad-enough teams, play to the crickets. Worse yet, we won’t get any new (fairweather) fans nationwide unless we somehow get a #1 pick in the draft—#3 won’t sell anybody next time—and even then, it’ll be an uphill climb, since 2010-2011 will have turned this franchise into “worse than the Clips” in most national eyes; at least LAC don’t play 20 national games AND stink up the joint!
With or without Melo, this is a lost season—just look at the injuries and the fact that J.R.‘s likely to earn a 20-game vacation from the front office for embarrassing the sport again with this choking mess—unless we can trade for players to keep us around the 6-8 seed. This involves getting rid of Smith and ME-lo for sure. Actually, considering what the cap’s going to be like in 2012-2013 (no season ending spring ‘12; this is ’we’ll take the hit’ big), we’ll actually only be in a good position THANKS to Melo blowing town—his max contract will be 50% of the HARD cap to come. This is the same reason that Miami’s going to be a one-season wonder; they’ll have no choice but to sell off two of their parts for pennies on the dollar because just the Big Three make more than the cap number in 2012.
I know I’m now making cap room, which we get if we hardball the bastard, a good thing, but it’s still not—because in the new league model, no one’s going to be able to get rich from contract money, so it’ll be the NFL model—you make your money from endorsements, and to get those, you play in a big city. So Denver won’t be able to LAND any free agents, and Mr. K will be flush with case for a year because he CAN’T spend his cap room on anyone—but during and after that year, no one will buy tickets unless we get a #1 pick, and the clock’s ticking until Seattle decides to build a new arena.
All in all, since ONE #1 overall pick still only gets you back INTO the playoffs, not the top, I’d rather go with the best package the team can get, ship Melo out, and keep hanging around the edges of the playoffs until 2020 as opposed to blowing up the team entirely and hoping they score a #1—which the NBA has NEVER allowed this area to have—while just waiting for the franchise to abandon its past and turn green-and-gold.
--and of course I mean 'a 7 or 8 seed'...
…damned stream of consciousness posting…
…and that’s ‘making cap room LOOK LIKE a good thing’, too
totally agree
ill take possibly contending for the division crown plus a 7-8 seed any day over completely sucking for 10 years waiting for the pingpong ball to bounce the right way and get a player that in all likelihood will end up bringing us within reach but not quite a championship (like melo)
i like watching the nuggets and when they absolutely suck it’s not fun. believe me I remember. I also remember when just making the playoffs was fun to watch. we have the pieces to remain relevant in the western conference even without melo. are we gonna win a a championship? probably not. but no guarantees we were gonna do that with him either. i’d rather stay relevant every year than completely tank and become the bobcats.
well, I didn't say we should completely blow up the team
just get rid of Kenyon and J.R. I only add Melo now too because he obviously doesn’t want to be here (which I think is what you two are saying too). Add whoever we get in return for those 3 to what we have and we’ll still be pretty decent.
It’s funny because in the 90’s NBA basketball was my favorite sport and the Nuggets obviously my favorite team. Even though they sucked most of the time I always enjoyed watching them, went to lots of games and watched every game on TV. I would of killed for a 53 win season back then, but last year I didn’t go to any games and I don’t think I watched more than 3 games all season beginning to end on TV because the team is SO DAMN ANNOYING!
by nebraskasux on Aug 27, 2010 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
ha i would have to disagree
i thought this core group of nuggets was great, for all their faults. personalities abound, they certainly were fun to watch. i sensed after the utah loss that this could be the end of an era and I guess I was right. it’s definitely a shame we didn’t have one more run in us, but I suspect melo and probably others will be gone come november.
so are the rumors true? do you guys think he will be traded? the nets? what can they offer? more importantly, why isn’t carmelo happy in denver when they have such a good team?
"the man who created a legend; the legend who resurrected a franchise."
I think it's because he hasn't won anything yet.
Either that, or it’s because our owner won’t pay enough to make the team legit.
Happens I suppose.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
The team is paying luxury tax on 30 percent of its payroll!
After the lockout, there won’t BE any exceptions to the cap and all those guys in Miami will have to be shipped to different teams just to make the Heat cap-compliant!
And as soon as LaLa got involved with Melo, she was pulling the strings and she only wants to live someplace with a coast. In fact, the only place that sees 50 in the winter that she’s willing to go to is the Greater New York area.
False, The Nuggets have the 4th or 5th largest payroll in the NBA.
This is NOT an issue of whether the team has paid enough for talent. Kroenke has dished out cash big time for this team. We have had a lot of explosive players over the last 5+ years. Melo, JR, Iverson, Anderson, Martin. They all have a ton of personality, which makes them fun too watch, but they were also very undisciplined. Thats why we haven’t competed as much in playoffs, but not because we “dont pay enough”. If the Nuggets do one thing, it’s pay their players well.
I'm going to go on record
And say that Melo will be wearing powder blue for the 2010-11 season and resign and be back for years to come. The FO will make a deal before camp starts.
Take that to the bank!
Quitter's People United Member #27.5
by RPN on Aug 27, 2010 6:53 PM MDT reply actions 4 recs
Atta Boy! +1
THAT is worth a comment! Rec’d!
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Aug 27, 2010 8:07 PM MDT up reply actions
i invest in this also
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
Possible trades:
Considering that Brook Lopez and Blake Griffin both are off the table, this is the best NJ and LAC can offer to us.
NJ:
- Troy Murphy and Derrick Favors for Anthony, with one or two first round draft picks or
- Harris, Favors and Williams
LAC:
*Kaman, Eric Gordon and Al-Farouq Aminu + first round for Anthony and Birdman or JR
For me both are fair trades, considering that two crap teams are possibly getting one TOP Player.
If nobody offer us a good and fair deal, let melo play here one more year and lose lots of money on free agency, next season… Simple as that.
Greetings from Rio.
I would move Andersen like he has syphilis
His contract is bad and is going to be absolute dead weight either this year or next. 32 year old guys who’s best attribute is athleticism don’t age well. Especially 32 year old guys coming off serious knee surgery. His contract is an albatross waiting to happen. I almost want to include Birdman in any sort of Melo trade just to get him off the books. This may be our only chance.
Smith, for all his faults, at least has an expiring contract so matter what he does, the worst he can do is hurt us for this year only. Birdman has the opportunity to be the gift that keeps on giving in the form of a Jerome James, Jared Jeffries, or DeSagana Diop. Trade him, now, for anything worth a speck of value.
True, true.
If Birdman’s was only this year, I would ship out JR’s first. But you have a point that Anderson’s contract might not age well.
Troy Murphy and Derrick Favors for Anthony, with one or two first round draft picks
the Nets would be left with Kris Humphries and May at the PF. ’Nuff said.
Harris, Favors and Williams
still a horrible trade for the Nets, not only would they be losing their 2 most promising oungsters outside Lopez and their most estblished player and only All Star (Harris), losing both Harris and Williams would left the Nets with a downright pahtetic bacckourt rotation:
pg: Farmar/Uzoh
sg: Morrow/Ross
’Nuff said.
As I said yesterday, roster balance and depth are also key factors, the Nets can’t afford to be left with such terrible rotations at the pf or in the backcourt, it’s simply not worth it, period.
Clippers won't trade Eric Gordon and don't want JR or Birdman
also you would get Mini’s pick which becomes unprotected in 2012, which means that is probably a top 5 pick.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Just my two cents ...
This Nuggets “thing” is a Drug since mid 90’ when NBA became broadcast to Brazil…
For me it’s a no brain decision keep Anthony and fuck with CAA if we don’t have a REAL good offer (REAL good offer = Young Talent + Picks)
Let’s rebuild in free agency next season and get some picks in K Mart trade in feb.
These Nets fans are morons
I love how these Nets fans think that their owner would actually balk at trading Murphy and Favors for Melo. Guess what bitches? You’re going to have to give up a lot more than that for Melo.
These Nets fans are pathetic. First, they think they were getting Lebron or another big name free agent. Instead, they spend 13 million a year on Petro, Morrow and Outlaw – epic fail!
The Nets were almost the worst team in NBA history last year. The new owner has already had his ass handed to him on numerous occasions, see, e.g., Outlaw and the Nuggets will hand him his ass again. We’re going to get Lopez and Murphy or Favors and Murphy plus your best draft picks or we won’t trade with you.
Well if the Nets were going to trade Favors for Granger
I think they would trade him for melo, who is younger and exponentially better.
Supposedly..
It was Bird who offered
Granger + #10
for
Harris + #3
And Thorn turned it down.. but then again both sides denied it. so who knows.
And while Melo is better, is he really worth nearly double the money?
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions
what
the Nets didn’t offered him for Granger as far as I know what was reported is that Indy offered the package Jack points out to and NJ said no thanks
also, it was reported by Nets beatwriters that they were unwilling to trade Favors for Chris Paul… hmmm….
Then they wont land Anthony
They have dont have anyone apealing outside of Lopez and Favors. The Nuggets probably dont want Harris. No way.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 12:18 AM MDT up reply actions
Then they wont land Anthony
Great.
You can keep him or send him elsewhere for all I care. I don’t want the Nets to trade for him.
First off
Im not a Nuggets fan. So I could care less. Also, I highly doubt the Nuggets care either. Someone else will trade for him.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
if thats true
then the Nets are retarted. absolutly retarted.
you wouldnt trade favors for Paul? no wonder the nets are a joke
Hello Denver fans!
@blackhill,
We come in peace to take your franchise player! lol No, but, in all seriousness, I would be willing to do this deal:
Troy Murphy (you guys need another big)
Damion James ( plenty of upside and can eventually start at the sf)
Three 1st rounders
Two 2nd rounders
cash and/or trade exceptions
LETS GO NETS!
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 28, 2010 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions
We're Morons?
We’re the ones who can discuss things civilly without name calling, swearing and insults.
But if that is all you can understand.. you are the ones sounding like the bitter husband going through a divorce, because your trophy wife and it’s trophy wife want to go elsewhere.
Sorry, but I don’t see why the asking price is going to be so high, given..
1. Melo is asking for 3 years $65m, more than anyone got this summer, and what could amount to cap suicide with or without a new CBA
2. Melo has gotten out of the 1st round once in his career
3. He does not possess a very versatile game (defense, multiple positions, passing)
4. he has WWW, CAA and Leon Rose manipulating his current team
5. No other star has commanded a king’s ransom this decade
6. He has a high maintenance wife and is proving to be high maintenance
7. Both sides are going to have to agree to an extend and trade
8. During his 4 years with his new team, they still wouldn’t be able to beat LAL or Miami, especially if the team is gutted
Sorry, but if I’m the GM on NJ, I would not offer Favors, and certainly not Lopez.
Overall, I would much rather look to contend in 4-5 years when:
-Melo is over 30 and his contract is over
-Miami and LAL have won their titles
-Lopez is 27, Favors is 24 and the rest of the team is closer to their prime and serious about winning titles.
If that's the case
then why are you here? You are entitled to your opinion that Melo is no good, but why be on here if you don’t like him? I can understand the nets not wishing to give up all their players in a trade, but Melo is much better than anyone on that team. He’s better than anyone on all but perhaps 5 of the teams in the league, if that many. If you don’t want him on your team, then leave us alone.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Aug 28, 2010 12:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I never said he was no good
And I do want him on the Nets, just not at the expense of Lopez and hopefully not Favors.
by Jack Handy Jr on Aug 28, 2010 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions
well apparently the wizards are on the melo boards
and i’m betting the marksman is involved
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
Well, this is an interesting article....
why aren’t we discussing the optimism I’m reading here…
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2010/8/27/1654764/nuggets-still-want-to-keep-carmelo
Good find , Jaxis…
Dear Rockies - Please beat the dreaded Dodgers
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all! Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
As a Nets fan, I really do hope you can convince Melo to say that he is staying, or at least take a few more months to decide.
If Melo was serious about going elsewhere, he should want to see how good/bad other teams are going to be this fall.
In the end, it may be possible that Nets would trade Favors (it would be sacrificing the future for the next few years), but it would have to be more on Nets terms.
Meaning that Nuggets would have to take Outlaw to make salaries work (and by December, you will see for yourself that he is worth over 5 million as a starter). You may only get ONE 1st round pick (not 2) and all the 2nd round picks you want + $3 million.
Remember, Nets are going to be stuck with paying Melo about 22.7 million for the subsequent 3 years, and we have no idea what the effect of the new CBA will be. Nets could get screwed by taking Melo, rather than his accepting the 65 million extension and staying with Nuggets, who should be in decline without any move.
I still don't understand..
in which universe anybody will touch the Outlaw contract. At his very best, he’s an average wing player. He’s not a very shooter or scorer, or rebounder, or passer, at least as a SF. He’s a pretty good defensive player but is that worth 5/$35M? That’s laughable. That’s one of the most atrocious contracts in the league and he hasn’t played a minute of it yet. Yet, I keep reading about Nets fans thinking Outlaw will be some key piece to this deal in December. For the love of god why? I’d rather give Afflalo 5/$35M than Outlaw and I think just about any Nuggets fan here would agree that’s beyond insanity. Petro for 3/$10M was pretty funny too.
Nets fans seem to act like their free agents this summer were some coup. They’re not. Morrow’s deal is fine but the other three FA’s you picked up for their contracts are absolutely horrendous. Enjoy.
civilly
You’re not be civil, you are repeatedly posting inane comments on a Nuggets board. Your analysis is as rudimentary as it is vapid – I wasn’t name calling, I was describing who have proven to be.
Your team is serious about winning titles? Give me a break. Your team overpaid for garbage this summer and wasted the third pick in the draft for a guy who played miserably in the summer league and, lest you forget, y6our team was nearly the worst team in the history of the NBA.
I’ve had it with your nonsense. I feel my IQ plummet each time I read your drivel – don’t expect another comment from me – I’m not reading your posts any longer.
I wouldn’t focus too much on MrDollardownhill and Jerry25. They trolled the Knicks blog when they thought they were going to get huge stars this summer, surprisingly they have stopped. I’m sure it has nothing with coming up empty handed this summer.
Now with Melo demanding a trade elsewhere, they somehow feel someone actually wants to go play for New Jersey. As always, they’ll come up empty handed.
I think their profiles say they’re 12yrs and 14yrs old? So they are sort of young, wouldn’t give them too much mind.
Everything you just said was obviously made up.
I have never been on a Knicks blog. Knicks don’t have any player I would want.
And as it turns out, besides losing LeBron (who had long ago made up his mind to go to Miami), Nets fans find Troy Murphy to be the perfect player to complement Favors. Nets prefer Murphy to any of the players mentioned, who they either failed or didn’t try to sign, but the media assumed that the Nets wanted or needed to sign for at huge salaries.
Murphy wasn’t available at the time of free agency. Otherwise, the would have made that deal at that time.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nets have a better record by the end of 2010, than the Nuggets, even with Melo still playing in Denver.
You will be starting the season with injuries and an unmotivated Melo, while Nets will surprise because of all the talent and best coach.
Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nets have a better record at the end of 2010.
A better record?
Then what? They had last year?
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 12:23 AM MDT up reply actions
peeps over on the Clips blog are saying they might be willing to trade Kaman and Eric Gordon for Melo
But none of them (ok well 99% of them) will NOT trade Blake Griffin. I’ve been a fan of Kaman for a while but am not sure this two for one is enough. Melo is good, really good, and Kaman and Gordon are definitely solid I might want Aminu or DeAndre Jordan in the deal too.
by InboundingLobPass on Aug 28, 2010 5:58 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Just curious, i've seen his name mentioned but I couldn't place him.
We could use another shooting guard, JR probably won’t be with us when the season starts.
He is a bit undersized though
he is only 6’3", only drives to the right, good shot, super athletic.
i'd be willing to throw JR in there and take bake gomes or whoever to make it work
they might not even want JR though. gordon is way more reliable than JR and if we lose melo we’ll need a consistent scorer. chauncey can’t and shouldn’t be the main guy.
peeps over on the Clips blog are saying they might be willing to trade Kaman and Eric Gordon for Melo
But none of them (ok well 99% of them) will NOT trade Blake Griffin. I’ve been a fan of Kaman for a while but am not sure this two for one is enough. Melo is good, really good, and Kaman and Gordon are definitely solid I might want Aminu or DeAndre Jordan in the deal too.
by InboundingLobPass on Aug 28, 2010 6:21 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
oops on the double post
by InboundingLobPass on Aug 28, 2010 6:22 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
We will definitely give you AFA and Kaman (actually we have to in order to make the deal work)
we won’t give you DJ because we need a center once Kaman is gone, and you will also get Mini’s pick + most likely our second round pick.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Hello,
I’m a poster on NetsDaily, as I mentioned earlier, and you are absolutely right. For the longest time, Nets fans have thought that they were landing LeBron. Just as I expected, however, we FAILED big time. Yet, we still did land Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw, Troy Murphy, and Derrick Favors (to mention the best deals) whom all are very productive young players. I do believe we would be willing to trade Derrick Favors in any package for Carmelo. Still, it would be impossible to snag Brook Lopez from us, as well as Devin Harris (unless we received Ty Lawson in return). I also understand the few of you that said Randolph+Gallinari+ picks > TWill+ Damian James+ picks. Therefore, (being more reasonable of course, because those players are NOT worth it) I believe that a package of:
Derrick Favors, Damian James, Anthony Morrow, 2012 GS #1,2011 NJ #1, 2011 GS #2
should be enticing enough. Although we won’t trade you our superstar, you can gain one in Derrick Favors, #1 picks, and other young players.
Mello is just like Cutler and Marshall!
We have not won a championship with Mello, Cutler, or Marshall. Like the Broncos did, it is time to ship another greedy, money hungry cry baby out of Denver. We can win without him. We beat the Lakers. Maybe we should send him and reunite hime with the former Olynpic Coach. That would be delightful. I am really tired of all this Mello stuff. He is like a girl who’s love is gone. Time for a new relationship, trow him to the curb and lets simply find better. One who does not choke in the playoffs. By Mello best regards .
P.S Maybe bring J.R from the bench to a starter role now that Mello’s gone. J.R can take a game over, Mello can lose the whole season.
If you're going to bash on Carmelo, the least thing you could do
is spell his nickname correctly.’
Say it out loud with me
Melo- M-E-L-O, Melo
(not two Ls) just ONE
MELO
Dear Rockies - Please beat the dreaded Dodgers
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act. I'm going to miss you most of all! Good luck with the Rays!
"You can learn a lot just by watching"-Yogi Berra
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Yes, JR is the answer.
Melo is only good for a few point per game where JR is great for the LOL factor. Mostly the other team LOLing at JR.
I’m guessing you don’t go to any Nuggets game and probably don’t watch many of them either.
Fair trade
Nets receive:
F Carmelo Anthony
Nuggets receive:
F Troy Murphy
F Damion James
F Terrence Williams
2011 1st Round Selection (From New Jersey)
2012 1st Round Selection (From Golden State)
2013 1st Round Selection (From New Jersey)
The Golden State 1st Rounder is money, considering that they won’t even be a playoff team in 2012. The Nets would be a playoff team with Melo for at least the next 3 years, so they’ll probably end up auctioning off their likely mid-rounders anyway.
Even if Williams and James both end up being terrible, the Nuggets get a 10 million dollar expiring and 3 #1 selections, including one likely lottery pick. New Jersey gets the scorer they need, and they can at least dream about competing in the East.
Denver also needs to find a way to dump the contracts of Andersen and Harrington. Both are on the books for multiple years and won’t help the overall cause of tanking for better picks. If they can find a way to do that, then they should blow it up and start over.
If nothing else, Denver can at least suggest the deal to New Jersey and try to get an agreement to use it as a starting point for negotiations with the Clippers / Hawks / Rockets / Knicks / whoever else is interested. For all your talk of leverage, you guys are forgetting that Carmelo’s list includes more than one team. Last year the Broncos got a great deal for Jay Cutler because even though he demanded a trade, there were still plenty of willing takers to drive the price up. This is an almost identical situation, albeit in the basketball world.
No way
How is this better than Randolph + Galo, or Kaman+ Gordon? Btw if the Nets GM offered that sack of crap for MELO, I think their phone calls would not be answered anymore.
Have you even watched Williams or James play? Or even Murphy???
This is EASILY superior than Randolph + Gallo. I have been to many Knicks games, Gallinari cant do jack shit besides throw up threes. Randolph is a good pick up, I must admit.
Kaman + Gordon, thats a close call, but I still think our overall package is better.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes, I have
This trade is a joke. You are a homer. Its okay, I am too. But in this situation I can analyze other teams talent with no bias. You can not. You are extremely biased.
Im honetly trying not to be biased. You are 100% right, I am, but
Witnessing Gallo with my own two eye balls, Im telling you he is extremely overrated. You dont want to be sealing with the Knicks.
Clips deal is slightly better than ours IMO
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Oh and also
Ive heard multiple times that Clips wont go near trading Gordon.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 10:14 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree, I dont like gallo
but James hasnt even played in a nba game. Randolph could be decent. And WHO said that the clips wont trade gordon or griffin. Clips fans and Ralph Lawler do not count.
Apparently you can't.
Gallinari is abysmal defensively. He doesn’t rebound. He doesn’t block shots. He’s basically a poor man’s Rashard Lewis. Ask Orlando how happy they are with him. Oh, and not to mention the fact that he has a balky back.
Denver’s problem as-constructed is that they play in a division and a conference both heavily predicated on size and defense, yet aren’t built to be big or defensive. Successful teams in the Western Conference have size and rebounding, which Denver will never have with Gallinari.
Our biggest problem to-date is that Carmelo isn’t much of a defender and a spotty rebounder, which leads to frequent mismatches on both ends. Moving that problem from the 3 to the 4 (Gallinari) only defers the issue. To succeed long-term in the Western Conference, Denver is going to have to get bigger, tougher and younger. Gallinari may be younger, but he’s not bigger and certainly not tougher.
James is an absolute horse. He’s the kind of guy that would be successful playing in the Western Conference. By developing his jump shot, James has a legitimate chance at being a starting 2-3 hybrid in the mold of Ron Artest or James Harden.
T-Will probably doesn’t project out as consistently as James, but he should be able to make some noise as an athletic SF that can push the tempo of a bench.
Murphy is a good body to have for a year, and let’s not forget that he comes off of the books next year. Losing him, Martin and Smith in the same year could get Denver out of salary cap hell pretty quickly, which would allow us to focus on developing young talent. Young talent which we could get with 6 first rounders in 3 years (3-4 of which are likely to be lottery picks anyway).
If you want the blueprint for how to build a successful basketball team, look at Oklahoma City. Stink on ice for one year and draft your superstar. Spend the next 2-3 years dumping every significant contract you have for draft picks, and surround your star with a supporting cast. Sign necessary free agents to fill out your team, and keep salary cap flexibility in case you need to add more later.
It just doesnt seem like enough
Maybe if they threw in a whole bunch of 2nds also.
sigh
I hope we keep our sack of crap
btw the Clippers aren’t trading Gordon, according to Ralph Lawler, they won’t trade neither him nor Griffin.
lol
Ralph Lawler, isnt he the scott hastings of the clippers? He doesnt know anything.
No Lawler is very informed
if he says it is most likely what the org thinks as well. Lawler is a very legit source and anything he says should be taken seriously.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Damion James is good
The trade is legitimate and fair enough I will give you that. The problem I have with it is Troy Murphy’s expiring. Yes he is a very good player but for the Nuggets this year he’s not going to bring us right back into contention. There is literally no reason to have his expiring contract here and he isn’t really needed with Al Harrington signed long term. Only reason the Nuggets trade for Murphy is to move him again. We already have $23 million expiring that needs to be moved in JR and Kenyon. It would be great if someone would take them which is why I think a Melo trade will be a 3 or 4 team deal. I also am not a fan of Terrence Williams. Personally if I want quality starting big man I’ll trade with the Clippers for Kaman and for all out young talent I’m asking for Randolph and Gallo from NY. Nets want to do deal then send Murphy to a third team, take JR Smith from us and give us Anthony Morrow instead of Terrence Williams. I would feel a lot better about a deal like that. The Nets have a lot to make a deal happen but this isn’t ideal for the Nugs
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Aug 29, 2010 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions
Thats a deal I could understand...
Im really not liking JR Smith, I bet that dude has the word “problem” tattooed somewhere on his body. Also, Im really not liking giving up maybe the best shooter in the game. But its certainly a deal to consider.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 29, 2010 10:00 AM MDT up reply actions
For better or worse it appears that Harrington will be a permanent fixture on the Nuggets
Before all of the drama this summer, I had assumed that Harrington would play a role on a team that was striving to compete with the Lakers in the west. Now, I wonder if the Nuggets brass would have signed Harrington if they knew there was going to be so much turmoil within the organization. Looking back on picking up the free agent, I feel that it was a mistake to sign him to 4? years. I don’t think that contract is one the Nuggets want if they are going to rebuild.
There is a team min
You have to have 75% of the total salary cap in payroll
It's really only 3 years @ 27 mil w/ 5 years 35 option
Not all bad considering how over paid the NBA free agents were paid this summer.
Quitter's People United Member #27.5
You act as if
The Nuggets expect to contend after trading Carmelo Anthony. Let’s not forget the necessity of a franchise player.
Denver could get a much better deal from Houston or the Clippers
Houston has two NY picks that will both be lotto picks.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
by darwithabar on Aug 29, 2010 12:21 PM MDT up reply actions
You think Harrington is a legit starter for the Nuggets?
I think he is supposed to be better than Kmart on offense, though I heard he isn’t supposed to be very good on defense. When I think about it, his contract is a lot friendlier than Kmarts, and we probably dont lose much. Better offense, maybe worse defense, though he has got to be healthier than Kmart. Maybe the contract is pretty good after all. Sorry, stream of consciousness typing…
Does anyone have the article on where Billups will end up?
by inquisitiveman on Aug 29, 2010 11:20 AM MDT reply actions
Let me know when u sign up to be insider and tell me what the
article said. :-)
by inquisitiveman on Aug 29, 2010 11:25 AM MDT up reply actions
UPDATE: We checked in with ESPN The Magazine’s Ric Bucher about some potential landing spots for Billups if Denver also decides to trade him.
We’ve attached that commentary to the bottom of this update.
Carmelo Anthony wants out. The Nuggets want J.R. Smith out. And Kenyon Martin, entering the final year of his lucrative contract, is out while he recovers from knee surgery. In addition, Chris Andersen is expected to miss the beginning of the regular season, too, after offseason surgery.
ESPN.com’s John Hollinger made a good point Thursday via his Twitter page regarding Chauncey Billups’ future with the Nuggets.
Hollinger tweeted: “Remember, if the Nuggets trade Melo and rebuild, there’s really no point in them keeping Billups either. Could be two All-Stars on market.”
Billups is from Denver and welcomed the opportunity to play in front of family and friends, but he may seek a trade to a playoff contender, or the team may see what the can get for the veteran point guard since they are in a rebuilding-mode.
Billups, who will turn 34 on Sept. 25, has two years remaining on his contract. He’ll make $13.15 million for 2010-11 and $14.2 million for 2011-12, but only $3.7 million of that is guaranteed.
Any teams needing a point guard and who think they can challenge for the NBA title this season should contact the Nuggets.
ESPN The Magazine’s Ric Bucher
Billups’ leadership could help a number of teams
“Charlotte is in desperate need of a starting point guard and could offer cap relief, a seemingly attractive thing if Denver is starting over. If Golden State is looking to change its lackadaisical culture, Billups could help there, too. The Kings, Nets, Clippers and Grizzlies are relatively young teams that could benefit from his presence, too. But if Billups’ dream scenario of riding into the sunset chasing another ring in his hometown has gone poof, the least he’d want is the chance to still chase a ring elsewhere. Teams that would keep the dream alive and have assets to send back are the Rockets, Magic and Hawks.”
So
a bunch of speculation with NO solid facts behind it all, just a “hey this makes sense kind of so lets post it” piece. ESPN quality.
"Until you shoot me off my bike I'll keep looking for a contract" - Jens!
Quitter's People United member # 42
Historical Perspective on Carmelo- how valuable is he?
I saw something on television on ESPN where they talked about Carmelo’s overall stats compared to other great players. The following link was some info from a quick search I did where I found the stats that ESPN showed.
http://www.wizardsextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85059
Some cut and paste: Over the last 25 years, only 7 players have scored 12,000 points, grabbed 3,000 rebounds, and scored 1,500 assists in their first seven years in the league:
(1)Carmelo Anthony
(2)Lebron James
(3)Paul Pierce
(4)David Robinson
(5)Karl Malone
(6)Charles Barkley
(7)Michael Jordan
When you see it from this perspective, doesn’t it kinda make you want to demand more from any trades ? :P
If you look at that list, he is also probably the weaker defensive player out of
all of them minus Barkley.
by inquisitiveman on Aug 29, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions
True, which is why I have been dropping him from top -10 talk.
But everyone on this list is a Hall of Famer, or will be.
would you nuggets fans like a package of
Kings: Thompson, Greene, 2011 picks, Dalembert
or
Rockets: Martin, Jared Jeffries/Shane BAttier, Knicks picks,
What people don't realize.....
The Nuggets leverage comes from the fact that if Carmelo becomes a free agent next summer, it is a foregone conclusion that he signs with the Knicks. Therefore, if you are the Nets, Rockets, or Clippers your only shot is to trade for him now. It is “reported” that he would sign an extension with any of these teams because he doesn’t want to leave the money on the table.
They are bidding against each other, and sorry you will have to give up an up and coming player.
Nets: Your new owner wants to win now, and lets face it, a Brook Lopez and Derrick Favors combo is not putting butts in seats. The Nets need a face to their franchise. Carmelo would make them relevant in the east and set them up to lure future free agents. Without Carmelo NO free agents will come to your team. This summer you had to overpay Petro, Outlaw, Morrow and Farmar. Any package you offer must include favors or Lopez, these are just the facts. And the Golden State pick is protected 1-7 so stop acting like this is that great of an asset.
Clippers: I believe the least you will have to give up is Kaman, Aminu and the Minny unprotected first round pick. Even though Gordon seems untouchable he might have to be added as well if the deal from other teams is sweetened. I do sincerely believe it would be worth it. You would have a core of Carmelo, Griffin and Davis plus the city of LA to attract other players.
Rockets: Maybe the most intriguing because of your host of assets. However, I don’t think that the players you have will fit our team; so a third team would need to be involved. Although Martin is a good player, I don’t see us wanting his contract, and although Brooks carries a high value, we already have Ty and Chauncey. However, these two players are highly attractive to other teams. In essence, your most attractive trade chip is NY’s number one pick.
After saying all this I think fans of other teams have to come to grips and realize what a fair and likely trade would be.
by tfaulk20 on Aug 29, 2010 12:49 PM MDT reply actions 3 recs
I couldn't agree with you more
The 1st part about Melo signing with Knicks in the off season is the key to any team wanting him now… you will have to pay
Quitter's People United Member #27.5
There is a 3rd option to trade Melo after the season begins, but before the trade deadline.
No way Nuggets go past the trade deadline without an extension or a sign & trade and let Melo get away to Knicks for nothing.
Melo has to approve of any trade.
Waiting until after season begins gives Melo a chance to better evaluate all the teams, and also allows all players to be available for a better trade from his point of view. Melo shouldn’t want the team he goes to be gutted.
As a Nets fan, I think it is possible Nets would consider trading Derrick Favors, but not much other talent.
It would be trading the long term future (Favors) for the next 4-5 years (Melo). If the Nuggets want Favors, then you will have to do business with the Nets and take the throw-ins they will offer.
As of right now, Melo for Favors+(Kris Humpries(3.2 million)+resigned Jarvis Hayes(to 4.2 million cap space) +Quinton Ross) + 2012 Warriors pick (1-7 protected in 2012, 1-6 protected in 2013) + possibly the Nets 2011 pick, + 2nd round picks + $3 million cash).
At the end of the season, it would be possible to include Travis Outlaw with Favors.
Our GM is in Turkey right now, on vacation, evaluating talent.
Your not going to do any better that Favors + Hump + Outlaw + all the picks + cash.
You need Hump to get though the beginning of the season with your injuries.
You need Outlaw as a poor replacement for Melo.
You would be getting in Favors, probably the most promising future player (just turned 19) after John Wall, from the recent draft. In about 5 years, Favors would probably be better overall than Melo, with 8 more good years to go.
Unlike Melo, Favors is a good guy, hard worker, low maintenance.
Most Nets fans aren’t willing to give up Favors, but I would consider it as long as players like Hump and Outlaw went with him. I want to win during these next few years. Other people are thinking of the next 13 years.
Only if the nets agreed to take him back in a year for an expiring contract.
You are a total homer if you think he is the most promising rook besides Wall. I would rank him behind both evan turner and cousins (wall too). Favors has no drive, no passion. He has a bad motor, all the physical tools, but what does that get you?
"He has no drive, no passion"
If you have been looking at videos of Derrick Favors for the past months youd see that he uses the term “hard work” constantly.
Saying he has no drive or no passion is utter nonsense.
Consequences will never be the same.
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 30, 2010 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Name one draftee that doesnt talk about hard work.
Imagine if you were about to draft someone and they talked about their love for cheetos and television. Wouldn’t that make the team less likely to draft him. Also, a players motor has nothing to do with hard work. Its your ability to take charge, demand the ball, etc.
How can you say he will be better than Melo?
Also, that is not better than a package of Martin, Buddinger, and the Knicks picks. Martin is a proven player.
Did you know Eric Berry was asexually produced by Chuck Norris?
You will like Outlaw better after he gets some starting PT with Nets in November.
Avery Johnson felt he was the 3rd best SF in free agency after LeBron and Rudy Gay and feels that the 25 year old should be playing better than he was at Portland.
Outlaw used to play really well against us
a couple years ago, especially late in close games. He was always hitting highly contested fading jumpers. I was very impressed then, but he’s really dropped off the radar since. I personally can’t recommend him based solely on those few games from a couple years ago, but I remember thinking he had something to offer then.
I don't think Outlaw...
is a bad player. I just think his contract is atrocious. If you told me he had like a ~3/$15M I wouldn’t have too many issues with the Nuggets taking him as a piece in a Nets deal. However, he’s signed for 5/$35M. I don’t think this can be understated. For a guy who isn’t much of a shooter, offers no discernible rebounding or passing skills, has a career 1-1 A/T ratio, is 26 and should be at his ceiling, that seems like an crazy excessive contract for what ultimately boils down to the definition of average player at the easiest position to fill. I’d much rather just take my chances with a mid-late first round draft pick on a rookie scale contract (ie. Damion James).
As a sidenote, I find it hilarious that Nets fans here have been ripping Gallinari but praising Outlaw. First off, Outlaw is four years older and getting paid crazy money while Gallo is still on a rookie scale. Even in Gallo’s worst year, his TS% was quite a bit higher than Outlaw’s in any year. Gallo already has a higher A/T ratio (nothing special though) and their rebounding rates are pretty similar. While I’ll certainly agree that Outlaw is a superior defensive player, I’d MUCH rather take my chances on Gallo to keep improving his game at a contract that’s chump change compared to Outlaw’s.
The difference is that Outlaw is a side contract to the main player - Favors, who could be an Amare type player for 14 more years (after a few years of development)
Gallo would be the main player for Knicks, to go along with their 2014 / 2016 1st round picks.
And I recently saw a recent workout video of Outlaw (from a summer camp I believe), where Outlaw doesn’t miss a shot over about 10 minutes. I am stll looking for the video.
Believe me, Nets fans welcome Outlaw and realize Avery Johnson had to expect to pay a little higher to get his choice SF, but if we get Melo for Favors, then in that case we don’t want Outlaw and his salary, when we already have DJames as a backup who plays defense and has upside. Another words, Outlaw is Ok, as long as he gets like 30 mpg, not 15 mpg.
And regarding Outlaw’s salary, it is necessary to make salaries work – otherwise you would have to accept other filler, such as Jarvis Hayes (whose rights are still owned by Nets and could be included for filler).
I'd rather...
just take Hayes to make the contracts match then take on the risk of Outlaw’s contract.
Call me a hater...
but I’m always extremely wary about when I hear a player has suddenly improved “XYZ” skill over the summer by leaps and bounds, especially when they’re not very young. Travis Outlaw is going into what, his 7th year, and now all of a sudden has become a good shooter? His TS% has never been above 54% and his average is right about 50%. That’s just not very good. I mean it’s a non-zero chance that he has markedly improved, but I just seriously doubt it, and certainly I would never take the risk of 5/$35M on that chance.
It’s like when I hear about “so and so” pitcher has started throwing a new pitch and looks fabulous in spring training. Then he proceeds to go out and pitch to his career averages. The reality is when a player has been in the league for 5-7 years, he probably is what he is as a player. It’s not being critical, it’s just being realistic.
i am clipper fan and kaman, aminu and minny picks is basically
what most are willing to give i think gordon is what the nuggets should try and get included, however i doubt our FO would do it and would be piss if he is included.
Carmelo want's to be the franchise player. Has he earned it?.
Carmelo as another poster put it is not a team leader. To me Carmelo is more about scoring and getting style points as opposed to being a true team player and trying to hone his craft .He is a great player but he is not a transcendent Super Star type player.
Last season when coach Karl got diagnosed with cancer and came down sick the team faltered fast. Nobody ever mentions that when they talk about the current team. At least most of the current team that was in the playoffs last year. The Nuggets were the #2 seed when the head coach left for the season. They fell off quickly. It is not as if the team sucks. As the Nuggets sit now without having made many moves they are still a top five seed in the West. That makes them a solid enough team that should they come together and play as one they can overcompensate for whatever weaknesses they may have. The Pistons of several years back did it and they had nobody of Carmelo’s talent and skill level.
It is obvious the players respect George Karl. If he can stay healthy and not get sick during the season he is enough to keep these guys on top of their game. That is just my opinion. George Karl alone adds 10 to 12 victories in my way of thinking.
by Gary Devon Linger on Aug 29, 2010 3:58 PM MDT reply actions
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