What about Shaq?...
Desperately in need of a big man, perhaps the Nuggets should be looking at the biggest big man of them all.
Early last season, I suggested that the Nuggets consider trading Kenyon Martin and his onerous contract to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Shaquille O'Neal (assuming Cleveland would even listen to such a deal). At the time, the readers of this blog all but rioted against me and were resoundingly against such a deal, citing K-Mart's defensive prowess and Shaq's propensity to clog up and slow down games.
While it's true that K-Mart (when healthy) is an able defender and Shaq does indeed slow the game down, I always looked at the deal - as far fetched as it may have been at the time - from a dollars and cents (or is it sense?) perspective: dump K-Mart's contract while/if you can. Of course, K-Mart went nowhere, the Nuggets ultimately went nowhere and instead of having $16.5 million to play with this summer, the Nuggets are on the hook for another year of paying out one of the worst contracts in sports history.
That doesn't mean Shaq isn't worth another look, though. Getting the Diesel to Denver, however, may be an impossibility.
By recently signing Al Harrington, the Nuggets organization is signaling that they haven't yet given up on the current Nuggets roster. A roster that - lest we forget - got within a few bad inbounds plays of the NBA Finals just two seasons ago and managed to win 53 regular season games last season in spite of losing their head coach to cancer. And while the Harrington signing should help the Nuggets stay within range of another 50-win season, no basketball pundit (including this one) seriously thinks that they're championship-contending caliber or even close. They'll need a true center for that.
Before jumping into the why's and why not's for Shaquille O'Neal, I remain resolute that the best move for the Nuggets to make is to ship K-Mart to New Orleans for Emeka Okafor and James Posey. A lineup of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Nene, Okafor, Harrington, Posey, Arron Afflalo, J.R. Smith, Ty Lawson and Chris Andersen is a championship-contending roster. But if that deal isn't available for whatever reason (and who knows with the Hornets these days...they're in free fall as an organization from the top down), adding Shaq to the mix in the Mile High City doesn't look so bad.
As mentioned when advocating for Shaq's addition last season, even at 38 years old O'Neal still has some game left. This was evident as he just wrapped a decent season for the Cavaliers - a team that won 61 games before LeBron James took a dive in the playoffs - putting up 12.0 ppg on 56.6% shooting to go along with 6.7 rpg and 1.2 bpg while playing a career-low 23 minutes per game. And as the old saying goes: "you can't coach size." He may be the NBA's oldest active player, but for 15 minutes a game I'd rather have a Shaq/Nene/Harrington trio facing off against Gasol/Bynum/Odom or Haywood/Nowitzki/Chandler or Yao/Scola/Miller or Oden/Aldridge/Camby than a Nene/Harrington/Andersen trio doing so.
Beyond on-the-court production, there are a number of intangible benefits to having O'Neal on the roster. First, Shaq would be great for the Nuggets locker room. Shaq may have his faults, but his teammates have always liked him except that #24 guy in Los Angeles. Second, Shaq has embraced every community he's ever been a part of and I just know Denver sports fans and non-sports fans alike will rally around his presence. Third, Shaq has publicly stated that he wants to play two more seasons, with the final - his twentieth - being a Kareem-esque "fairwell tour." Given that a Shaq fairwell tour is sure to be a blast at each destination, why wouldn't an organization want to be a part of this hoopla? Not only would O'Neal get asses in the seats in Denver, but the Nuggets would play to packed houses on the road. And finally, should NBA owners indeed lockout the players in 2011 and play a truncated season, the Nuggets would only be on the hook for half of Shaq's twentieth season. Even at 40 years old, I suspect Shaq can give a good effort for 40-something games.
Thinking about a Nuggets team with Shaq and actually acquiring Shaq are two different issues, however. To acquire the big man (who will come at a price of about $3-4 million per season, minimum) the Nuggets would have to do a sign-and-trade with Cleveland directly or involve a third team to get the deal done. To pull this off, the Nuggets would have to part with some two-player combination of Afflalo, Renaldo Balkman, Coby Karl, Brian Butch,or Anthony Carter plus a future first round pick. Another route would be to part with the mercurial J.R. Smith and his one-year, $6 million contract for O'Neal (after all, O'Neal wants mid-level money in the $6 million range). This may sound insane on the face of it, but if the Nuggets are going to lose J.R. to free agency in 2011 anyway, why not consider dealing him now for a big man?
Considering I've brought up Shaq's name twice in eight months, I admit I'm a sucker for the guy. While I wish Shaq conditioned better and worked harder on his game throughout his career - and believe he cost himself top-five all-time player status by not doing so - I can't help but love the guy. He's been a great ambassador for the sport, a class act with the fans and keeps things interesting and fun wherever he goes. What's not to love about a little kid trapped in a 7'1", 325-pound man's body?
I don't know if it's even within the realm of possibility to bring Shaquille O'Neal to Denver. But I'd be thrilled to see the 7'1", 325-pound O'Neal in a powder blue and gold jersey for a few minutes a game at the Pepsi Center next season.
At the very least, it's worth a few phone calls from the Nuggets inquiring about Shaq's availability.
Photo courtesy of AP: David Zalubowski
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Barf
Sorry I just threw up.
The money he wants isn’t worth it. Our injury money already goes to Kmart and Birdman
Quitter's People United Member #27.5
We can get more for JR...
Jr can still play, and will do so presumably for years to come. You cannot say that about Shaq at this point. He is a big body in the middle, but I think there’s younger and better big man we can get through a trade. Especially if were gonna part ways with one of the best 6 man in the league.
also barf
He’s a big dude, and I’m almost willing to let him camp out and hinder all of his teammates’ inside games, just cause he’s a legit big on the boards and on D, but for the price of trading away some of our real talent? Hellz no.
We just opened up the floor by getting Harrington and now we’re going to put an immovable object in the way? He literally doesn’t fit in our system.
I’m all for the KMart for Okafor/Posey move. Maybe with CP wanting out it might happen? Oh yeah, then resign Kmart for the playoffs…
Forget Shaq
Let him go to ATL.
Not even the Heat want him, why would we?
I hope the FO reads our posts. I keep salivating at an Okafor/Nene/Melo frontcourt with Andersen/Harrington/Posey frontcourt on the bench. The backcourt rotation is set too. If we trade KMart can we trade Balkman to them too?
There is also the possibility of a KMart buyout. Maybe he can sign a 2 yr deal for cheap and play limited minutes on a suddenly stacked team.
by JR15 on Jul 22, 2010 12:56 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
No
Denver is not going to pick up anymore FA’s so get that wish out of your head. as much as I would love to see them sign amundson when they re-signed ac and that big stiff Williams I knew Stan closed his wallet. With kmarts knee problems nobody wants him tell he can play so for right now we got what we got and if history with this team and front office tells us anything is that don’t count on any new moves the next off season.
by tknuckle on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
i dont think signing shaq automatically makes MElway sign an extention does it?
by InboundingLobPass on Jul 22, 2010 2:11 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
I think it would have quite the opposite effect
It’d be sending a message that we’re committed to acquiring old players past their prime.
by deezNuggets on Jul 22, 2010 10:26 AM MDT up reply actions
DO IT
GOD YES
The 09/10 Colorado Rockies: Starring Johnny Herrera as THE ANSWER
THIS IS BUFFALO NATION GODZILLA HAS AWAKEN - abayarde
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am i the only one who is down?
Im tototally down. I think it would be awesome
Shaq
Nice post, as always, Andrew. I’m with ya, go for the Okafor/Posey trade – 1st choice – but Shaq would bring an intangible to the team. I doubt Coby Karl would be part of the deal cuz of George and I’d squirm a little if it was AAA in the trade – but Renaldo, Butch, or AC – if that could happen – be an interesting combination with the rest of the squad!
JR for Shaq?
Come on Andrew. K Mart for Okafer and Posey… Yes
JR and 6 mil for Shaq? Hell no
Shaq for the vet min? Sure
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
I'd cry
if Afflalo got traded for Shaq.
by ParkHillNative on Jul 22, 2010 8:09 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
yeah
let’s trade our bright future for one year of a guy that’s at the end of his career.
by deezNuggets on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
I'd be for it
except the price is too high. I could see him coming off the bench and getting some much needed rebounds.
I’m just sick of seeing sequences where the Nuggets have to get a stop and they run the other guys down to a few seconds left on the shot clock, the other guys take a bad shot and get the rebound and score on either the rebound or the ensuing play. We need somebody who will get that rebound in those situations.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
IT'S THE SOLUTION TO ALL OUR PROBLEMS
When we started thinking of a way to get some rebounding and scoring in the low post, someone that would also convince Melo that signing a three year extension is in his best interest, I was all like WE NEED THE SHAQTUS.
Remember when Cleveland couldn’t defend the pick against the Magic, and they were like, WHO WE GONNA CALL? That’s right – BIG ARISTOTLE. That’s who. I think the results speak for themselves. DIESEL CLEARED THE WAY FOR THE JJ HICKSON ERA.
Call up Wark and Chap – hell, even the younger Kroenke – and they’ll tell you what we all should already know: READY TO BUILD A CONTENDER? SIGN SOME FAT GUYS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF 37 YEARS OLD. Next stop? The ring-fitting.
Quitter's People United Member #05
It depends on a couple of things
1) Would signing shaq automatically mean no trade of Kmart later on. If the additional money for Shaq would rule out a later Kmart trade, then I say no. Would only make this move with an eye towards also trading Kmart at the deadline. This signing ties up cap money for next year, which means the let Kmart and J.R. go and renegotiate billups option would leave much less flexibility to bring in other players.
2) Is Shaq ready to play 15 minutes a game? Watching him last year, he was effective for about 5 minute spurts. If he is willing to do that then I’d be in favor. I’d play him 5 to 8 minutes a half as a scorer on the backup crew. If he still wants to start and play 25 a game, I say no.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 22, 2010 8:49 AM MDT reply actions
Ew no way..
Shaq burns every bridge whenever he goes somewhere… there’s a reason no teams want him now…
I'd love me some Hamburger Helper
Maybe we can do a trade that would send Cleveland KMart, for Shaq and Antawn Jamieson? I would like Jamieson at the 4 with Nene at Center and Harrington off the bench… That would be a beefy lineup
Quitter's People United member #35
Jameson
Is Jameson in decline, or were his numbers going down so much last year a result of being on a better team?
Cleveland would only do this deal as a salary dump. Jameson is one of the, if not the, best players on the team. They would lose a lot more games this year if they did this deal.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 22, 2010 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions
Cleveland still has Varejina and Hickson so I'd imagine they'd be set there
Quitter's People United member #35
I see what you did there..
Varejina. Well done, well done indeed.
Shaq is too slow
We’re a up-tempo, fast paced team.
I don’t want a washed up Shaq clogging the lane so players like Carmelo and Chauncey can’t get to the damn basket.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
couple of things
1) Running is overrated. It doesn’t work in the playoffs as everyone gets back on defense. The team needs an effective half court offense.
2) If you use shaq effectively, he makes things easier for those on the court. You bring him in with the backups, put it in to him on the post, and he either scores or kicks out for a three. It’s the same offense teams have used with him since Orlando. Shaq, Bird/Harrington, J.R., Lawson, and Melo would be very effective. And Bird, J.R. and Lawson could still run.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 22, 2010 10:30 AM MDT up reply actions
Some games aren't fast
and there were possessions in the late season and in the Utah series where we could not get a stop on the opponents half court defense. Shaq would have come in handy.
QPU # 2.
Shaq could help . . .
but not enough to justify midlevel money.
I'm with you Feinstein
I’m a sucker for Shaq. How can you not love the guy? The only big problem we have is that he’s the exact opposite of how we need to play and I just think it’s too much to overcome. We are much better off sticking with a run and gun smallball style of offense than trying to accomadate a 38 year old, 7’1, 300 plus pounder. That said, if Shaq did somehow land on the Nugs I would be the first to buy his jersey and welcome him to the team.
Stiff 4 Life
To your point
Look how the Suns flourished when they returned to their style of play after Shaq was moved. That says nothing about the success of half court sets in the post season vs. run’n’gun, but you get my point.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 22, 2010 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm on the fence with this
Last year when the idea was presented I said no to the Big Prospector. As mentioned in many of the earlier posts, he affects our offensive style of play “random” because he makes other players orbit him in the middle (no pun). On the other hand, he would be a good 2nd unit fit. He’d come in and slow down the pace of the game on both ends, that way our starters could rest a bit longer because the score isn’t being jacked. The kicker is the price tag issue. If Shaq came over he’d be a bench player and nothing more, and his salary demands are too much to pay for that. if his price came down however, I may in line for a jersey too.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
Jersey
I’m betting we could get you, Andrew, and GN all into one Shaq jersey.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 22, 2010 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't know
My f*ckin ego rides shotgun
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 22, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Let's make a list
The Nuggets Super Duty
Dually
The Front Range
Double Wide
Mt. Evans’ Shadow
The 14er
“The Can” Crusher
Melo’s Muscle
Cow Pie
The Rocky Mountain Oyster
The guy that rides that giant demon horse at DIA
The Biggest Bum on 16th Street
The Dodo in LoDo
Old Timer
20 minutes Max
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 23, 2010 2:31 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are some gems in there - REC'D
Is 20 Minutes Max any less belittling than being called Double Pump Chump?
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 23, 2010 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I kind of want him on the team now solely for nickname value
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 23, 2010 2:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm telling you
The Nuggets national coverage would triple based on nickname value alone.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 23, 2010 2:56 PM MDT up reply actions
How about...
Big and Clumsy (championship edition)
Still has better knees than Kmart
Coal Train
The Stock Show
The Denver Omelette
One of the dancing aliens in front of the convention center (the other one can be pau gasol)
shaq o'nugget
shaqasourus, meganug, shacoors, shaqtastic and scotthastings2.0.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
shaqaholic
silent shaq and e. shaq kroenke
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
I think Shaq would be great as a limited bench player
If he comes on as the starter for the whole season, I think Melo would see that as a sign that we’re not going to get our starting center of the future, and that would discourage him from resigning.
I don’t think we have the room. Any move we make now should show progress towards our future; the future that Melo would be signing his extension for.
no times infinity.
We’ve all seen how well Shaq worked out for teams like Phoenix and Cleveland
Swats.
I like Shaq.
He is fun to watch and funny, if nothing else. Just don’t pay too much.
Do I think he will bring a championship…no…but I don’t think will happen anyway.
Might as well have Shaq. Plus, I might actually see him play. I’ve bought tickets for at least 3 Shaq games in the past, and he didn’t play in any of them due to injuries.
you just said it yourself
IN-JU-RIES
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
I'm all for having Shaq as part of the organization, just not a player on the team.
I bet he and Rocky could work up some routine’s where if Rocky missed his behind the back half court shot, Shaq grabs it and does a dunk….. Also Shaq would have to be willing to work for free.
by InboundingLobPass on Jul 22, 2010 4:07 PM MDT reply actions
I'm going to get on board too
Regardless of what you think he is one the greatest to play the game. There’s no doubt he helps us size up with the top Western contenders. I just don’t think it’s a great idea to trade JR right now. Without Joey Graham and not knowing what if Coby Karl will stay on the team, JR and Balkman are the only backups for Melo right now. A one year, MAYBE two for the midlevel money would work for us as long as we don’t create another hole by trading away a contributor. That’s the same deal as Jermaine O’neal and Shaq is still better than him at this point, no?
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Good point about Melo's backup
If we picked up Shaq then for stretches of the game we could have a line up of Shaq, Nene, 3-skin, Jr and LAWson. That’s a nice secondary IMO.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 22, 2010 6:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I love the idea of shaq coming to the Mile high city.
even if we trade jr to get him here we still have a back for Melo in Harrington. besides harrington’s scoring ability, probably his best value to denver is his versatility in the positions he can play. Bring in the real man of steel!
Man of Steel
Joelsopinion LOVES that guy
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 23, 2010 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions
Not as much as your mom ZING!
Seriously though I could go into a Superman related rant if provoked. Worst Comic Hero Ever.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 23, 2010 2:55 PM MDT up reply actions
lakers are building.. we need a few peices
we bettter pick up a center lakers are buliding there bench well the added steve blake,matt barnes and theo ratliff this season versus are only pick harrington and are banged up kmart and bird man
lmao
i forgot all about ac and sheldon srry lol
by calicowboyz on Jul 22, 2010 11:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Couple points here...
1. I’m under the impression that we’re talking about only a few minutes here and there. The points you’re making, in PHO and CLE he was brought in to start and “to win a ring for the King”. This is a different situation.
2. With regards to the “clogging up the lane” argument, I see it as giving us more versatility (again, assuming this is only a few minutes at a time). We’ve seen Orlando’s “4-outside, 1-inside” strategy. While it doesn’t work as a primary offense because D12 isn’t good enough offensively (and neither is Shaq, admittedly), its great in spurts, and would give us an additional look that we’ve never had before.
3. We’re already partly a run-and-gun team, but not all the time. With Ty, J.R., and Nene, we push the ball like its running away. With Chauncey and Melo, the game tends to slow down a bit. Its not like we’re fully a RnG team anyway, so its not like Shaq would be the end of the world.
Final thoughts, its good if we’re not trading any real assets to get him or giving him a ridiculous amount of money. Otherwise no.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
by Agaliarept on Jul 22, 2010 11:51 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Much better trade
CP# wants to play with a superstar lets get him to Denver to play with Billups and Melo. Trade K-mart, JR and Ty for Okafor and CP3. New Orleans gets a talented your PG and two expiring contracts. DEnver gets a PG in his prime and a 7 footer. CP3 gets to play with a superstar in Melo. This would definitely prove to melo nuggets are wanting to win for him. Line up of CP3, Billups, Melo. Nene, and Okafor. With AA, harrington, and Bird getting big bench minutes i like Denver in most matchups
we have chauncey and lawson
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
yet i'm either way on this at least
pro: we have a a BIG nugget in height
con: it ruins the rotashun for us and $ talks to shaq
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
et the big guy.Chauncey kills CP3.CB1 and TY,
Remember the playoffs in Chauncys first season against N.O.NUFF SAID.
defense.
they already run this retarded thing where they switch almost everything! Pick and roll with whoever shaq is guarding whenever he’s in the game. EVERY play.
Can't stand Shaq
I know the guy may be an awesome person with a great personality, but I can’t stand the way he plays basketball and I completely disagree with your views on the intangibles he could bring to the table to help us win. Seems more like a huge distraction with a ton of down side for the Nuggets. This post sounds like a pitch from some marketing representative rather than a plausible deal that would get us closer to winning a championship. Period.
DON'T TELL AL GORE WHERE I AM!!!
by manbearpig5000000 on Jul 25, 2010 10:54 PM MDT reply actions
I would say yes
There are a lot of reasons not to sign him, but we really need some size up front, and another low post player that can score. He is still a tough match-up when he is motivated, and the ability to play against the Lakers I think will be a good fire for Shaq.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
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