Breaking down the Harrington and Williams signings...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jul 14, 2010 10:01 PM MDT
in News and Opinion
210 comments
Signing Al Harrington and Shelden Williams doesn't make the Nuggets any taller. But it might make them a little better.
By signing Al Harrington to a five-year, $34 million contract (with only three years and $26 million guaranteed per ESPN.com's John Hollinger), Stan/Josh Kroenke and Nuggets management sent a bold message to their three most important constituencies - the fans, the NBA and, perhaps most importantly, Carmelo Anthony - by saying: we're not done competing for a championship in Denver. Of course, my Uncle Marty - aka the Nuggets Curmudgeon - immediately derided the move by saying: "Almost $7 million a year for Al Harrington? He's a journeyman!"
As has been noted by Hollinger and the Post's Dave Krieger, Harrington's signing puts the Nuggets approximately $6 million over the luxury tax line, meaning it will cost the Kroenkes $12 million. It seems as though Stan has come to the realization that - fair or not - under the NBA's current (flawed) collective bargaining rules, owners have to be willing to pay into the tax if they intend to compete with the NBA's elite for at least one more season. Moreover, with Dallas sneakily adding Tyson Chandler and re-signing Brendan Haywood, and Utah astutely acquiring Al Jefferson, the Nuggets had to do something to improve a front line likely to be sans Kenyon Martin and Chris Andersen well into the 2010-11 season. Welcome to the Western Conference version of "keeping up with the Joneses."
In basketball terms, there are pros and cons to Harrington's addition, which is why I'm not over the moon with this signing but see lots of positives with it (how's that for a political answer?).
On the pro side, Harrington is a legitimate 6'9" and 250 pounds. I remember watching Harrington go up against the Nuggets at Pepsi Center last season and thinking "damn, I didn't realize he was that big." Additionally, Harrington can score. In that appearance at The Can, Harrington erupted for 41 points...off the bench...and almost single-handedly defeated the Nuggets. (Unfortunately for Harrington, Carmelo Anthony - the player Harrington was supposedly guarding - had an eruption of his own and posted a career-high 50 in a 128-125 Nuggets victory). And those 41 points weren't the most in one game that Harrington had last season. He had already scored 42 against the Philadelphia 76ers a month earlier.
Other pluses for Harrington? While he has only appeared in four postseasons during his 12-year career, two of them featured long playoff runs and he was instrumental in those runs. Harrington was a major contributor on both the 2003-04 Indiana Pacers that went to the conference finals as well as the 2006-07 Golden State Warriors that shocked the basketball world by upsetting the one-seeded Dallas Mavericks in the first round. Harrington was also on the 1999-2000 Pacers team that appeared in the NBA Finals, but injuries prevented Harrington from participating. The other plus of having missed a number of postseasons is that Harrington likely doesn't have the wear and tear on his body normally seen on a 12-year veteran (it has also helped that Harrington settles for jumpers over mixing it up in the post...but more on that shortly under "cons").
In regards to his role on the Nuggets, Harrington will immediately fill in at power forward for the re-injured K-Mart and - in theory - will keep a lot of double teams away from Melo as Harrington himself can fill it up on offense. And on Benjamin Hochman's radio show today, Harrington boasted that Chauncey Billups and J.R. Smith are two of his "best friends" (yet another example of how the NBA's bromance culture is ruining the game, but we can debate that issue another time).
Unfortunately for the Nuggets and their fans, the cons associated with Harrington might match the pros but certainly don't exceed them. For starters, during his recent career Harrington has been all offense and no defense. I hope that this could have more to do with playing for Don Nelson and Mike D'Antoni for the past three seasons than anything else, but I'm concerned Harrington has picked up bad habits playing for those offense-only coaches. (In fairness to Harrington, he was a pretty damn good defender under Rick Carlisle in Indiana.) While Harrington played for the Knicks, at times I remember watching him wrestle with teammates for the ball - around the perimeter - and subsequently chuck ill-advised three-pointers with plenty of time left on the shot clock.
Furthermore, while playing outside the painted area may have extended Harrington's career health-wise, it's also a negative. A guy who's 6'9" and weighs 250 should be mixing it up inside more, but Harrington's career 5.8 rebounds per game and 44.8% shooting is all you need to know about much he likes to play inside. The more I think about it, Harrington's career reminds me a lot of Cliff Robinson's: power forward size and skill, but prefers the jump shot to taking it inside. But who am I to judge? Robinson was able to milk that routine for 18 seasons and Harrington just might do the same.
And finally, I'm not sold on Harrington and Melo co-existing harmoniously. Their games are eerily similar: big-time scoring, no defense and insufficient rebounding combined with all-too-often settling for jumpers over taking it to the rack. I think it's fair to question how well Harrington and Melo will fit together until we're proven otherwise on the floor.
Pros and cons considered, signing Harrington is worth the risk. Even though I wish Harrington mixed it up inside more and played defense a quarter as well as K-Mart does, he does make the Nuggets more potent offensively and gives Nuggets coach George Karl more options on that end of the floor. How many times last season did we see the Nuggets offense stagnate when Melo didn't have it going? That won't happen with Harrington on board. Whether Karl likes it or not, he'll probably have to win games 125-115 next season instead of 105-95, as I'm sure he'd prefer.
On the other end of the free agency spectrum, Fanhouse's Chris Tomasson is reporting that the Nuggets have also signed power forward Shelden Williams to a one-year, $900,000-ish contract. Williams might be a hard worker, a nice guy and Duke University's all-time leading rebounder, but make no mistake about it: he's a Stiff. Williams is a step slow, moves awkwardly and has no touch around the rim. In fact, if it weren't for former Nugget - and Denver Stiffs Hall of Famer - Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Williams might hold the honor of being the biggest draft bust ever taken at the #5 overall spot (of course, it's not Williams's fault that he was drafted before Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay). But for a one-year minimum contract, the Nuggets could have done a hell of a lot worse and, at the very least, Williams gained some NBA Finals experience by playing for the Boston Celtics last season. Let's just hope for our sake that Williams sees about as much action for Denver as he did in Boston.
Tomasson is also reporting that Anthony Carter will be returning to Denver. A lot of Denver Stiffs readers have already scoffed at AC's re-signing, but I'll stand by AC as a third-string point guard. And don't underestimate AC's value - both personally and professionally - to Coach Karl, something that deserves consideration in case this is Karl's last season as Nuggets head coach.
In summary, the Nuggets generated much-needed enthusiasm today by signing Harrington while shoring up a few more roster spots with the Williams addition and Carter coming back. If they can somehow pull off a deal for a center like Emeka Okafor, as I've been advocating for and am confident can get done, the Nuggets may not get LeBron'd (and yes, I'll be using that new verb relentlessly for now on) by Melo and instead, compete for a championship in Denver.
Photo courtesy of AP: Danny Chan La
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Nice break down
I’d take Kemen over Okafer though. Lets hope Blake Griffin and deandre jordan light it up this year in LA so the Clips can afford to lose Kamen.
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
I'd take Kaman, too...
…but I think it’s so unrealistic for the Clippers to part with him that I haven’t even thought to mention his name.
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Jul 14, 2010 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I think some of Andrew's proposals are far-fetched
But with the Udoh injury Biedrens is not leaving GSW for a while. The Okafor trade seems realistic and if it happens we are definitely golden. Perkins is also 6’10" but he plays big and so does Okafor.
We could get a cherry on the top with a KMart buyout and re-signing with us.
Send Williams to D-League to make room and we have a championship caliber team that has a good mix of defense and offense!
by JR15 on Jul 14, 2010 10:11 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Perkins
Is out for a lot of the season just like Kenyon… Thats why Boston signed JO
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Jul 14, 2010 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions
It would def.
have to be a deadline deal in the wake of another down Clippers season for a Kamen trade to even be possible. The only way I think Denver could woo LA is if they included Ty and took back Baron and Kamen in which i don’t know if the numbers work or are even close but I think Denver should consider holding on to Ty for the time being.
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Jul 14, 2010 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions
No way we should trade Ty
I’ve been watching this kid in Summer League and I have not seen one player better than him. He’s special, I’m telling you right now.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 11:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Kaman would be a pipe dream
Plus, now that we have Harrington, Smith, Lawson, Billups, Nene, and Melo we don’t need scoring.
I don’t know why people don’t like Okafor. He doesn’t need to score in our system, he can just play tough D. I mentioned Perkins, b/c Okafor is the same size as him and I think coach Karl can turn Okafor into a Perkins type rebounder/defender. People claim Okafor is too short, but many people said that about Ben Wallace vs. Shaq in the finals in 2004
If we add Mike Brown to the bench I sniff a Lakers downfall. Let’s hope this prediction comes true Andrew.
Does Nugstradamus have a say on our chances of an Okafor acquisition?
by JR15 on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you
I dont’ know why there isn’t more push for us to land Okafor. The guy is consistantly one of the best defensive players in the league and can be our legit C that we have been searching for. It doesn’t matter if he’s 6’10 or whatever, it’s a known fact that size isnt’ everything when it comes to the frontcourt, even though it is nice 2 inches isn’t going to kill anybody especially with Okafor’s numbers. With NO saying that they are willing to part with players for cap relief this would be a golden opportunnity.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:44 PM MDT up reply actions
Size isn't everything
That’s not what the emails I get everyday say.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 15, 2010 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Okafor
He has a pretty painful contract extending 3 years down the line. Also, nothing I have seen from him indicates he’s a premier defender or a guy who can anchor the defense like K-Mart does. He’s an above average legit Center, I’ll give you that. But that bad contract is a deal breaker for me even if we get him for K-Mart. If Kenyon can come back healthy and play 20-30 minutes at full strength he could really help our defense a lot. I think the chances of that are low, but I might be willing to risk it over trading him for Okafor and the $50 million left on his contract
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Jul 15, 2010 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions
True
Thats a really good argument. The thing is Okafor pretty much is exactly what we need right now. If we did trade for him I’d be extatic, and if not, I’m sure there are other guys we can find for less.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 5:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Donut, would you put up with Okafor's contract
If it meant we won at least one championship.
I agree he can’t guard perimeter guys like KMart, but if he can hedge screens and get back to his man a la Perkins we can be ok. We probably have to stop our switching defense if we got Okafor and I wouldn’t say that is a bad thing. Can Gasol and Bynum guard the perimeter…Hell no!
Plus we would get a Robert Horry type guy in Posey. We could even rest him during the regular season and use him in the playoffs. I think it is definitely worth the risk of having a crippling contract in the future.
I could see a good frontcourt lineup with either Okafor/Harrington or Okafor/Nene.
I still think Kenyon can be bought out by the Hornets and he can re-sign for cheap. We would have him as an option too.
That is why I think the Okafor thing is the best deal that is realistic.
It is not like Okafor is an all-star, but he will fit in nicely because we don’t have to rely on him.
I also think the Nuggets should definitely look into
Either Mike Brown or a defensive minded coach that is less renowned to assist GK.
The Nuggets players need people to yell in their face and if we have a good defensive coach complimenting Karl’s free-wheeling offense, I think we will be Golden.
All these things can happen, it can go either way. I am more of a half-full fan than an half-empty fan like most of the posters on this site.
Thing about Okafor
Just think about it. If we sign Okafor, Melo will surely resign. This leaves us with one hell of a lineup for the next 5 years or so. You’ve got to figure that we would make multiple WCFs appearances and have a great shot at a Finals appearance each time. I would say it’s 100% worth it when you look at it that way. The Lakers can be beat, and they arn’t the best regular season team. They only won 57 games last year. I’m pretty sure we could get home court a few times against them which would give us the upper hand imo.
I agree about the assistants too. It’s clear a ham sandwich would be more affective than AD coaching so why not bring in a young guy like Brown, Laimbeer, Theus or Frank to suceed GK?
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Try 6'9
if that. Give me a 7 footer, not a player the same height as Melo
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Jul 15, 2010 6:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Isn't Perkins
Like 6’9". Did you see how when Perkins was finally playing against Gasol (post game 1), Gasol was out of the picture. Perkins is an inch taller than Melo, but he gave Gasol fits.
We don’t need a 7’ scorer, just someone who can throw a Gasol or Bynum off balance by bending low and forcing them off the block.
I mean Chuck Hayes is 6’6", but he can guard centers pretty effectively because he gets low and forces them to do uncomfortable things.
I was surprised when I read that he's 6'9"
The dude plays tall. No doubt.
Yeah!
Chuck Hayes doesnt get much respect… I know that we all want a defensive oriented Center, but what about Brad Miller? He could play behind Nene, sort of fill in the Birdman minutes. He is kind of like Kaman in terms of scoring and free throw shooting.
by distortedman on Jul 15, 2010 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Addendum:
What about trading J.R. Smith for another player (Fill in Blank) and letting Coby Karl play 6th man. That dude never got much respect either, and screw all the people that would cry about the coach being his dad.
Also:
I am glad that A.C. is back with the team. I would hate to see him in different colors. Give that man some respect too.
by distortedman on Jul 15, 2010 11:12 PM MDT up reply actions
fuck no
to both your ideas
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Jul 15, 2010 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
ac is the rod smith of the nuggets
another whole season of my best bronco analogy.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
You better get your pen out now and make a list of one liners.
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 16, 2010 4:25 PM MDT up reply actions
who won the championship?
Just sayin
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on Jul 15, 2010 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions
I believe you are getting bad information on Perkins
Dude is 7 feet tall. The announcers talked about it a lot during the playoffs last year and the dude is in no way shorter than Garnet who is 6’11" or 7 feet.
I think the Harrington can't play D angle
is way overplayed. He has spent the last 4 years playing for the two coaches who least value team defense. And yet he still garnered the following comments from an NBA scout prior to last season:
Harrington’s defensive effort seesawed, but overall he was solid. In today’s game he’s almost a true 4 who has just enough size to bang with opponents in the post and hold his own, but he’s mobile enough to defend the perimeter and fared well in pick-and-roll defense. Harrington isn’t a leaper, so he doesn’t block shots or rebound well for a power forward, but he does take charges. His effort from the weak side, however, did not match the quality of his on-ball defense.
Sure he’s not the big, rebounding center the Nuggets need, but he is a straight-up upgrade to Kenyon, a much better fit on this team due to his outside shooting ability. And since we were a big man short last year and Kenyon may not play at all this season, we really needed 2 big men, and this fits one of those slots, the Kenyon replacement. Now we can try to use Kenyon’s expiring contract to fill that other slot.
He's also stated that he wants to lose the "doesn't play defense" moniker
Although that likely won’t bring him back to his Pacers days, at least he supposedly has the will to do it.
Like asdqqq said, his coaches haven’t exactly cared whether or not he played defense. I think guys like AAA and Chauncey will at least be able to help influence that. At times last season I felt that other guys on the court tried a little harder after watching AAA shut some guy down or make a great defensive play.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
I agree on all counts.
Also, I’ll post this everywhere I can: Don’t underestimate the value Harrington will add in spacing the floor on O with his 3PT shooting ability, thus opening the floor for Melo’s, Ty’s, JR’s drives. This will be a big advantage over past years when the lane has clogged (see KMarts line-drive jump shot).
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:04 PM MDT up reply actions
What about this deal??
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2b5f9m2
Nuggets / Warriors / Hornets
Nuggets gets: A. Biedrins and E. Okafor
Warriors gets: K. Mart and James Posey
Hornets gets: Monta Ellis and C. Andersen
This trade certainly make the team taller and would be a way to solve the defensive problems.
Greetings from Rio.
Warriors
They’d never trade away ellis and biedrins for two overpaid bigs. I know they don’t value either of the guys they are trading away in this scenario, but I don’t see even the Warriors, as dumb as they can be at times, making this deal especially when they just got Lee who plays the same position as K-mart and is the perfect compliment to the more defensive-minded Biedrins.
why
would NO want Monta Ellis and Chris Anderson?
by higgyhoops12 on Jul 15, 2010 12:13 AM MDT up reply actions
That's obvious
They’re getting a combo guard to play off CP3 and allow Thornton to develop more off the bench. In Anderson, they get a defensive presence to either start or come off of the bench and provide energy. In my opinion, they would win this deal if went through; even more so then Denver. Ellis is vastly underrated in my opinion.
The only problem is both of them are over payed.
I think NO will want to completely rebuild after CP3 is gone, and if they are going to trade him, I’m sure they would want young contributors instead of Bird.
by higgyhoops12 on Jul 15, 2010 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Hornets already overpaid Bird once remember??
That’s how he left Denver in the first place…and they were repaid by an embarassing performance in the all-star dunk contest ;) and a year long drug suspension….I’m pretty sure their answer would be “NO THANKS”
Actually
Before he came back to Denver, the Hornets wanted to re-sign him, but he said no.
The 2004 Dunk Contest wasn’t so bad though. In fact, it was MUCH better! I guess it’s because he was a NUGGET back then.
New Orleans sucks. :p
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
I happen to like the name Sheldon...
Williams is a solid defender, but hasn’t adjusted offensively to the NBA. He appears, partly to lack for confidence. For the money and some defense, I like the gamble. Who knows, maybe in time he might get comfortable as a Nugget.
I like this move too
The biggest knock on Shelden was his terrible offense. He kept taking mid-range jumpers he couldn’t hit. But last year, he finally played within himself and improved his shooting percentage from .446 to .521.
Not that I think he’s suddenly going to become a great player, but he could be a Petro level player this year, for far less than Petro ended up getting. This looks like the move to bring in AAA rather than overpay Dahntay last year.
I'm sorry, but I think we could have gotten much more creative with the 2 mil we offered him and AC
Sheldon Williams. I mean, what happened to this guy? His career at Duke was freakin amazing and after seeing him play in Boston this postseasn I’m thouroughly convinced I would rather have his wife on my NBA team than him. Why not go after Amundson for 2 mil a year, rather than sign AC and Williams? At least he would likely get some playing time.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions
bc the most we could offer amundson
is the $1.2M bi-annual exception (i think). we’ve already spent the entire MLE on harrington. sherwin (and probably ac) were signed for vet mins. ac will cost a little more bc of how long hes been in the league, but if stan is willing to pay that additional $300k ($600k if u include luxury tax), thats fine with me.
ac is the 3rd PG, no way he is taking any minutes from TY or CB1 this season unless one gets injured or its garbage time. he doesnt complain (publicly) about playing time and just goes about his business.
i dont really care for sherwin. for the league min, id rather sign earl barron. hell, i think i rather have malik tacos allen over sherwin. but there really arent any options out there for an end of the bench big, so i cant really complain about him signing with us.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
by 808inDenver on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Wasn't Sheldon a defensive beast in college?
I know he’s been a bust in the pros, but maybe, just maybe, he gains a little confidence here and exhibits some of that old defensive prowess and toughness in limited minutes.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 15, 2010 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I honestly like the Harrington signing
Being on such a shitty Knicks team I think forced Harrington to try to be the “Hero” and score points for them. I’m sure that since that last season was pretty much tanked to try to bring in LeBron that there was minimal effort given in the games.
mmmmmmmmm Ty playing pick and pop with Harrington or pick and roll with Nene is gonna free up the lane for Melo… I hope we’re ready for some tacos because the Nuggets are gonna score a lot. Harrington I think realizes that he’s going to be a No. 3 option and he’ll focus on rebounding and defense. The Western conference has some good PFs, he’ll step up.
Fantastic signing
Quitter's People United member #35
Taco Bell might go out of buisness in CO with this signing.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions
You guys are pretty funny about the Taco deal
Funny mainly because if Taco Bell had their way, they’d LIKE to have the deal happen every game. Think about how many people get something else besides the taco deal when they come in. Think about how many people get into the habit of going in even when the deal isn’t on. The PR the advertising, it’s all good for them. That’s why they do it in the first place. I guarantee you that the Taco Bell people are hoping every game goes over the scoring threshhold. Hell, they’re even glad we discuss it here, that’s advertising they can’t buy.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
Yeah. I think you have to buy a medium soft drink.
The soft drink costs Taco Bell about 3 cents including the cup. The rest is pure profit.
Hope your right about getting a quality center
But I’m skeptical, given the FO office choices the past year i.e allowing our trade exceptions to expire, trade deadlines, not aquireing another big last season when we clearly needed one. I can see by aquireing Harrington and Williams that they might feel that their done shoreing up the front line. Clearly we need to do more to remain competitive. I think JR should be shopped aggresively. I too have been a big advocate for keeping him on the team—that was until he decided to have another infantile moment during the playoffs. Pouting at the end of the bench and not participating in the timeouts with the team was the last straw for me. Duiring the playoffs no less.Getting a center like Okafur with the way the roster is currently shaping up would put us back in a competitive mode.
It's on Melo
The major concern I had with Harrington was also the fit with Melo. It is a new look for Denver, when Melo and Harrington play together they are going to share the power forward workload and figure out how to compliment each other. We did not get the rebounder I wanted and now both of them are going to have to step it up beyond their career averages. Melo should pull back on shooting threes and creating almost all of his jumpers off the dribble. He could do a lot more of his damage in the post with Harrington pulling a big body away from the middle. More importantly Melo has to make an impact defensively. Harrington is big but the drop off defensively from Kenyon Martin is huge.
If Chauncey signed off on it I’m sure we can make it work and score a lot of points. Denver either needs to make another move for a Center or Melo has to become a 2 way player if this is going to work in the playoffs. The alternative was matching Kleiza and playing him more at the four – which I don’t think anyone wants to see.
Also I see Renaldo Balkman as a good backup for Harrington, he will not be counted on to touch the ball or contribute anything on offense besides garbage points
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Worked for Team USA
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
When the Nugs get Dwight Howard at center I'll come around.
Melo is an ideal SF: Too big for other SFs to cover and to quick for PFs to cover. He’s revolutionizing the SF position, IMO.
That’s part of what get’s him in trouble sometimes, with the refs and offensive foul calls/lack of fouls on his defenders, a la Shaq in his prime. Refs don’t know how to call it because they’ve never seen it before.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:46 PM MDT up reply actions
Melo is a PF
the same way Nene is a center.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 15, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Everything else said, the MLE could have been better used.
But I am interested in seeing what Harrington can do with Lawson and Melo. Williams is a total question mark. AC is AC.
We may have seen Kenyon’s last game as a Nugget. We may not have liked his contract but he did throw together some gritty performances and tough games here.
I hope we see him one more time at least, but if not, thanks for your years here Kenyon. Hopefully we can make the right moves and bring a title to Denver.
Swats.
Make sure to brush your teeth
And while you’re at it go ahead and gargle.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Who exactly else do you think we could've gotten with the MLE?
Because I’d like to know.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Jon Brockman
Beefy loves his Brockman.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
I would have resigned Petro, Joey Graham, and picked up Coby Karl from the Summer League
Brockman would a good bonus.
Swats.
Coby is already signed
Like Hollinger said, the roster is full
1. Billups
2. Lawson
3. AAA
4. JR
5. Melo
6. Harrington
7. K-mart
8. Bird
9. Nene
10. Shelden
11. AC
12. Balkman
13. Coby
14. Butch
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Butch
With his knee problem and unguaranteed contract, will they keep him on the roster? How long is his recovery?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 15, 2010 3:01 PM MDT up reply actions
A full roster is 15
Isn’t it?
Also, I read somewhere, not sure of where the link is, that the Nugs may be forced to keep Butch on the roster, because they can’t cut him because of his injury or something like that.
by NugsRoxHusker on Jul 15, 2010 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Thats what I thought too
But those are the only guys under contract. So either Hollinger is a retard or the Nuggets have someone else who we haven’t heard about yet
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
I have seen all I need to see from Johan . . . don't need to see any more.
So uncoordinated, doesn’t use his size well at all (get’s pushed around, and doesn’t board well).
I would’ve like to re-up Joey, though.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
I dreamed last night that Gortat is coming to Denver.
If I drink enough Don Julio I have psychotic psychic abilities.
Odd
After I drank enough last night I had a dream that a KFC rep kept offering me an invitation to drink poison. That has no bearing on the NBA whatsoever…just saying
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Jul 15, 2010 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Idk if it's true, but supposedly Harrington was Indiana's defensive stopper off the bench..
now I don’t expect him to become KMart on D… I think if he puts his mind to it, he could be a good defender…
also if the deal is only 3 years guarranteed, then this is a great signing… I was afraid that Denver paniced and just gave him 5 years to make sure they didn’t get spurned again, but if it’s only 3 years… that’s a good deal IMO…
I’ll admit, when ppl mentioned Harrington at the beginning of the off-season I hated the idea sooo much… but it’s grown on me, idk if it’s cuz I got desperate/ anxious but I kinda like the deal now and am excited to see him play next year…..
also I got the feeling that he wanted to play here, which we don’t see that much… I think that says a lot, if a player wants to play here, he’ll play better… he also seems to be good friends with some of our players
Like I said in the other thread, we shouldn't panic even if it was 5 years
It’s a mid-level deal, so it won’t be any bigger than 5-7mil a season at any point. We’re not talking K-Mart-sized deal, Harrington’s deal will be movable.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
definitely see the similarities
Melo is obviously better than hedo. harrington/rashard may be a wash.
I don't think it's so much about overall skill level
but what they can do.
Obviously Melo is a hell of a lot better than Hedo, but Turkoglu’s strength was being able to play point forward really well. Melo has amazing passing and court vision, but I don’t think he’s focused on it to the point Hedo did (at least during his Magic days).
Regardless, I’ll take Melo anyday of course. :P
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Yep
But you can’t really get away with it without a big time defensive anchor behind them.
ORL have Dwight and we have… Nene?
Speaking of which, I remember Nene’s rookie season when he gave PF’s across the league fits defensively… Duncan in particular.
I wonder what happened to that part of Nene’s game?
excited about the possibilities,
However we still need a center considering KMart will be closed for business. I hope Nene dominates even half as much as THE HESS’ twitter feed indicates he will.
GO NUGGETS!
by InboundingLobPass on Jul 14, 2010 11:19 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
The Hess Twitter feed
Is that in all caps?
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions
not sure what it is exactly...
its been posted on here… actually I’ll find it for ya…
SteveHess1 = Steve Hess on Twitter
by InboundingLobPass on Jul 15, 2010 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions
No I meant
IS HIS TWITTER FEED ALWAYS WRITTEN IN CAPS!!! HE SEEMS LIKE AN INTENSE DUDE FROM MY TV SCREEN!!!
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions
HIS LETTERS ARE SO BIG AND BUFF!
THAT’S WHAT HE DOES TO PEOPLE …AND THINGS! AHHH YEEEAAAHH! I’M GETTING RIPPED JUST TALKING ABOUT IT!
For all those making the Harrington/Rashard comparisons
Just want to remind you how Rashard couldn’t handle Gasol two seasons ago. I see the similarities as well, but Harrington’s going to be worse at guarding the taller guys like Gasol, Bosh, etc.
Unless we can make K-Mart trade for a legit defensive big, he better get well soon, or we’re going to get abused in the post.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Harrington is like the same size as KMart...
Rashard might have an inch on him (which I don’t think is accurate, he seems to be around Melo/KMart’s height, yet listed as 6’10") but he’s also skinnier and not as strong
That's not the point
Gasol ate Shard up in the post, and like you said, Shard is taller. Gasol, for all intents and purposes, is a legit 7 footer, something neither Shard, or Harrington, can put up with. At least K-Mart has that defensive mindset.
Remember back in that series, people figured that even though Gasol would have his way with Shard in the post, Gasol wouldn’t be able to chase Shard all over the perimeter? See how that worked out:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3275/gamelog;_ylt=Avq5vKg5UkbQBgPJQl8UVzVJPKB4?year=2008
vs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3513/gamelog;ylt=AujrYyjLa3lh4eQn0rssVeOPKB4?year=2008
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Last time I looked
Gasol eats eveyone when he gets his touches. It’s not about stopping Gasol and Kobe, it’s about stopping the rest of the team. Shit, Kobe can score 50 and Gasol can score 30, but if the rest of the team doesn’t score, we’re winning. I wish people would look at it like that instead of focusing so much on one player.
by higgyhoops12 on Jul 15, 2010 12:18 AM MDT up reply actions
You missed my point.
To win a championship, we’re going to have to get through the Lakers.
Do you know why we haven’t been able to get past the Lakers the last couple of seasons? Because we don’t have an answer for Kobe and Gasol.
You’re looking at it the wrong way. Kobe can score 2 points, but chance are if he does, it’ll be because he got 20 assists. I’m not just talking about keeping them from scoring, I’m talking about keeping them from doing EVERYTHING.
You realize that once Kobe and Gasol starts scoring, we start double teaming them, and then with their passing ability they’re able to easily find the open man, which leads to an easy score? Domino affect, and then we’ve lost the game. All because we have to double team those guys just to play any sort of defense on them.
It’s not just about scoring, it’s about WHAT HAPPENS when they start scoring. Look at it this way, if we can’t play one-on-one against Kobe and Gasol, they won’t allow us to play one-on-one against the rest of the roster, because we’ll be too busy doubling them. Did that make sense?
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Chances*, effect*
Oh god i can’t type.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Some nice insight from Jeremy at Roundball Mining Company
Secondly, since when are double and triple teams a bad thing? When a team commits more than one defender to an offensive player, they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. A well drilled offensive team will make defenses that double pay a stiff price.
Third, the argument is teams used Kenyon’s man to double Carmelo and they will not leave Harrington like they did Kenyon. My response is how many times did you see Kenyon cut through the lane and receive a pass from Carmelo because he was left uncovered? Again, a double team is not necessarily a bad thing. Plus even poor defensive teams are prepared to rotate and protect themselves from giving up a wide open shot off of a single pass after a double. It is usually a shooter on the weakside who gets the open shot off of a swing pass, not necessarily the player whose man left him to double.
Gotta agree, but he said it a lot better than I could.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
Jeremy hates the Nuggets
I’m convinced of that, all he ever does is dog on them
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
I disagree
I always appreciate him, I think his analysis is astute and he’s never one for false optimism.
by ParkHillNative on Jul 16, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Jeremy is missing the point:
With Harrington, if other teams double off on Melo (which they will, because he can’t be stopped 1 v 1), Harrington will be able to hit the jump shot. I don’t know how many times a double would come, a pass was made to the open big, but the open big wouldn’t shoot or would miss the shot.
Again: No, double teams aren’t bad, but they are if the open man can’t hit the shot. If he can, the double teams will lessen and Melo will dominate.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:26 PM MDT up reply actions
damnit. as I was saying
I don’t agree with Jeremy’s analysis. Harrington can def hit the open jumper, and open jumpers will boost all of those FG pcts he quoted. I’m sure he wasn’t taking that many open shots for the Knicks.
Sure a double team isn’t necessarily that bad, but I sure as hell would prefer a one on one.
nobody is denying we still need a defensive minded center
we definitely do. problem is there aren’t that many available.
Eh.
I’d say Ariza was more troublesome than Kobe and Gasol during those years. I’m willing to say that Ariza was the difference maker.
by higgyhoops12 on Jul 15, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
I agree
But Gasol has gotten much much better even since we played him two years ago. His confidence is sky high right now and there’s no way Harrington is going to match up with him. We need a banger, perioid.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM MDT up reply actions
um ok here i go
I think the Harrington signing doesnt make us a little better. I think it makes us MUCH better. I’m genuinely excited about it. He is instantly our second scoring option and will be a great player. (and even a decent guy on D) He may not be that tall but he is strong and athletic. He can rebound and even pass a little bit. This makes us dangerous.
oh and Shelden is married to Candice Parker… ENOUGH SAID
He's not our second scoring option though... 3rd at best
Chauncey and JR might have something to say about Harrington being 2nd or 3rd.
Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man! Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man!
Hi, I’m Al Harrington, President and CEO of Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man Emporium and Warehouse! Thanks to a shipping error I am now overstocked on wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men, and I am passing the savings on to YOU! Attract customers to your business, make a splash at your next presentation, keep grandma company, protect your crops, confuse your neighbors! African American? Hail a cab, testify in church or just raise the roof! Whatever your wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man needs, come on down to Al Harrington’s Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man Emporium and Warehouse, route two in Wequapog!
Julian from Australia
i saw that on Youtube.
was gonna look at some al harrington highlights and i saw that lol
Quitter's People United member #7
"Every morning we wake up we got two options, you get better or you get worse. What you gonna do today?" - Steve Hess
Lol, that's a great sketch
Didnt’ realize that guys name was Al Harrington til now though.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think people really have a problem with Harrington at this point,
just the situation he’ll be entering.
I think if K-Mart and Bird were completely healthy, we’d all love this deal. Harrington can come in off the bench, take some minutes off of both K-Mart, Bird, and Nene, and provide us with a type of game that none of the others can.
However, with both K-Mart and Bird questionable, Harrington is likely forced into the starting lineup, and now we’re all calling for K-Mart to be traded along with Harrington being the wrong signing.
Am I off base here, or do some of you guys agree?
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Scars remind us of where we've been. They don't have to dictate where we're going."
I see that point
And I agree 100%. I doubt anybody would be up in arms if K-Mart was healthy, but then again if that was the case this move likely wouldn’t have been made in the first place. I think it’s a win-win. If K-Mart ever gets healthy we are that much better, if not, at least we’re better than having done nothing which is what it looked like we were going to do for a while.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:24 PM MDT up reply actions
I think Jeremy at roundball has been on a Melo crusade since last year
But I digress
Don’t worry about Melo. The thing is, I don’t expect everything of Melo. He is who he is. I wish he would rebound more, and I think he can do it. I’m not looking for Melo to rack up assists and get triple doubles every night. Just score and get more rebounds. He’s not going to improve on defense….so stop asking.
Harrington will lessen the load Melo will have to carry. I don’t know if people realize this, but ALL of Denver’s offensive “sets” (relative term) run through Melo because, quite frankly, there was no one else consistent as a second option. That is why Chauncey increased his scoring last year….which is not his natural habit. Nene is so hesitant he destroys legit options by passing out at inopportune moments. Kenyon’s had a spectacular dunk and a jump shot he seemed to aim directly at the back of the rim. AAA had a good 3 point shot but his purpose was to bring some D (mostly)….so while Nene SHOULD have been the second option…he wasn’t (as we all know)
That’s one of the reason the Nuggets struggled in half court sets. Hopefully Harrington provides a legit 2nd option to lessen Melo’s load and free him up for other things.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
Quitter's People United Member # 78
Melo's assist #'s will go up next year, guaranteed.
He’s a good passer, but I’ve been watching people brick shots off his passes for years.
The less your teammates hit shots, the less you’re going to give it too them.
Al can shoot, KMart couldn’t . . .
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:31 PM MDT up reply actions
I think so too... mainly because I think Chauncey should be more of a shooter than an initiator on offense..
Chauncey’s a great scoring PG with great leadership and good defense (which is declining), but he’s never been a big assist man… we should give Melo the ball at the top of the key more…
Did Earl Barron get signed by the Knicks??
I think i read something somewhere about it. Maybe Hoopshype had it, is that true? Because if he is stil a Free Agent why the hell didn’t we sign him over Sheldon Williams? I think Barron would demand a little more then the minimum, or maybe not.
Quitter's People United member #7
"Every morning we wake up we got two options, you get better or you get worse. What you gonna do today?" - Steve Hess
Williams could be trade bait.
may have signed him so we can add him in to a trade later on near the deadline.
Quitter's People United member #7
"Every morning we wake up we got two options, you get better or you get worse. What you gonna do today?" - Steve Hess
Nicknames?
Anyone got any for Harrington or Williams?
Quitter's People United member #7
"Every morning we wake up we got two options, you get better or you get worse. What you gonna do today?" - Steve Hess
Sticking with head
Al has a lot of excess skin on the top of his head, so I was thinking “Foreskin.” I know it may be a little inappropriate but just think of how it’s gonna sound when he drains a three: “Foreskin!!!”
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
Stiffy not rooting for foreskin?
What a surprise…
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 5:40 PM MDT up reply actions
What?
He’s Leonardo if he’s gonna be rocking the baby blue headband.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 15, 2010 11:59 AM MDT up reply actions
Harrington is the perfect example of a..
good basketball player who suffers from not having a natural position. He is 6’9 but he averages only 5 rebounds a game. He likes to chuck up 3’s, and even though he gets hot like J.R, his 34% average from downtown is nothing amazing. He is a liability on defense as well and can’t defend that well. He is too tall to be the player he plays as, he is however an above average PF coming off the bench, because most bench players are good players who have his dilemma of not having a natural position and suffer from it. If he came off the bench for an 80% K-Mart then he would be an above average bench PF, just because of his ability to create his shot and he would thrive playing against the benches and not against the starters.
However, since he will be the starting PF, expect a 16 PPG, 6 RPG season from him.
His career 3PT% is 36% . . . not 34% (I wouldn't go off his Knicks stats, where forcing shots was a requirement)
36% is not bad. Dude can fill it up from outside.
Also, don’t base his D on his time with GS and NY . . . he has said he’s dedicated to playing D (like he did under Carlisle at INDY).
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Also, did a little more research on this:
Harrington’s 3PT% is even better if you look at the seasons in which he’s been focusing on it more:
1998-2005: 60/246 = 24%
2005-2009: 517/1,362 = 38%
I’ll take 38% from three any day from my PF.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Very interesting
He is looking more and more like a good pickup. At first I was lukewarm on this, but after a little research, he seems like a good value, and 5 years from now he will be a huge commodity at the deadline, because the team he gets traded to can just cut him and save 4 million.
Melo
If he hasn’t signed his extension by the trade deadline next season, would you guys trade him or let him play out his contract?
Gotta chase the title
I think we’ll have as good of a shot as 08-09. There’s no way we’re going to win a championship this year without Melo.
by higgyhoops12 on Jul 15, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions
Eh, I don't know
I just don’t see how it’s a good sign if Melo doesn’t resign for the amount we’ve offerend him. Just like with Lebron, your devoted to your franchise but simply want to “test the waters.” Then some team is going to offer you lots of money and something that Denver can’t and all of a sudden it’s looking like your on your way out. If Melo doesn’t resign after we’ve already got Harrington I think trading K-Mart’s expiring has got to happen asap. We have to prove to Melo we will do anything to keep him here.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions
agree/disagree
I agree that we should do everything to try to keep Melo, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feel like we have to hurry up about it. He has a long time to think about it and acting desperate in the first few weeks is not going to necessarily net us the most compelling roster.
We have time to wait for more trade possibilites. Let’s take that time. Similarly, even if we do make a compelling move, if you were Melo, wouldn’t you take some time to evaluate? Personally, I would take as long as I needed to know for sure. It’s only going to affect the rest of his career. He’s not trying to make us squirm, but it’s the smart thing for him to do.
No reason to rush. Melo probably won’t be rushing either.
also
I think he will begin to realize that the grass isn’t that much greener on the other side. Hopefully, by the end of the year, he will realize how close we actually are to winning a championship, and how much we’ve done to compliment and utilize his exact skillset, and that if he has to start over somewhere else, they may have pieces but they won’t have the same imprint of his game pressed into every play, and that this whole roster is a home that was built especially for him to bring home a championship.
I really hope that he sees this is true.
Well...
Lets see what happens with Amare, or Lebron, or Al Jefferson…..
Nobody has brought up the fact that the Utah Jazz will probably
be the biggest obstacle for the Nugget, barring the Miami Heat
of course.
by distortedman on Jul 15, 2010 11:38 PM MDT up reply actions
They were relocated to Tokyo
Kobe is popular over there, although it may have been a miscalculation because I believe they are more into Kobe beef.
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
plus
You cant ONE a championship. Thats absurd.
by distortedman on Jul 16, 2010 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
Why Bother?
If melo wants to go with CP3 to NY then they will have to sign and trade for him anyways. We’ll take Randolph, Gallinari and two first rounders if it comes to that
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Not sure NY can even do that
The only way they can pay for both CP3 and Melo is by completely dismantling their roster. That doesn’t sound that appealing to me. Maybe the situation will be different at the end of Melo’s contract, but it doesn’t seem like Knicks fans are too optimistic about getting both players next year.
So, yeah, if Melo doesn’t extend the contract, we sign and trade. He’ll get a max contract and we get talent/picks. But I think we take it that far. S&T at the end of the contract would mean we did every last thing we can to try to keep him.
Joey G
When or are are even gonna re-sign the guy?
"I believe that basketball, when a certain level of unselfish team play is realized, can serve as a kind of metaphor for ultimate cooperation. It is a sport where success, as symbolized by the championship, requires that the dictates of the community prevail over selfish personal impulses. An exceptional player is simply one point on a five-pointed star. Statistics—such as points, rebounds, or assists per game—can never explain the remarkable interaction that takes place on a successful pro team."
~ Bill Bradley
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/bektur34 - denver nuggets videos
I thought we were going to match Kleiza if we didn't get Harrington...?
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
-1
Graham had 1 good playoff game last year. Kleiza can really light it up and if he has become more consistant then look out. Dude could be a great sixth man. Also, he would be much better trade bait than Graham.
He's way more expensive than Grahm
He’s a bitch, as we saw during the entire 2008/09 season when he cried like a baby because his contract didn’t get signed. He can’t play defense to save his life, and he’s clearly more interested in the European lifesyle of Bidets and fine cheeses than he is playing competitive basketball. I say screw Kleiza, let him play in Toronto and have the worst record in the league next year and lets sign Grahm to a small contract since he played so well last year.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
And that is the reason you aren't a GM in the league
If the Nugs don’t match it is purely because they don’t want to take on anymore sallary this year. He is a good trade chip period. You don’t just let RFAs sign for a few million bucks with another team when you still have a need for a big. If the Nugs do let him go for nothing then we know we are going to be watching a ton of small ball for the first half of the year at minimum.
Who has something we need
who would give that person up for a sign-and-trade on Kleiza? Just curious if you had anyone in mind
by Artimus Mangilord on Jul 15, 2010 1:14 PM MDT up reply actions
Not really
But there should be tons of deadline deals with teams looking to clear cap for next year’s free agency. Gives the Nugs more trade chips for now too. Guys like Turiaf, Diop, Mbenga, Mohamed, Wallace, etc could all be had for Kleiza I would imagine.
Hell we once almost got David Lee for him!
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
We have no need for him though
And it’s strange how your talking about Kleiza as if he’s 6’11 or something. The dude is 6"8. We have enough guys already who are 6"8 and more talented than him. When you are already over the tax, why keep adding pieced you don’t need?
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions
he's a doughy 6'8", too
He tries to play D, but he’s a sloth. He won’t like his role on the team, and he will be expensive to just carry around pouting for half a season waiting for someone to want him.
His offensive skills are very solid, but not incredible. He might threaten 30 some days, but not nearly as often as Al or JR. I loved watching him in 07-08. Hated watching him in 08-09.
I’ll take Joey’s skillset and salary over Kleiza’s in this specific instance. It’s not an exact side by side comparison, it’s the price, too. Joey’s bulk and D alone might be more valuable to us than Kleiza’s shooting. It’s Joey, not Doughy!
by deezNuggets on Jul 15, 2010 10:01 PM MDT up reply actions
Joey G
Played tough Defense, he is not at Kenyon’s level, but he is smart and tough and gives Paul Milsap fits.
by distortedman on Jul 15, 2010 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions
Also, there are a lot of reasons Im not a GM
But I just don’t see the positives to matching the offer on Kleiza. The only thing I can think we could do would be to match, hold them for ransom for a big (Amir Johnson?) and do a sign and trade. But what happens if they don’t go for it? Then we’re stuck another 5 mil over the cap with another SF coming off the bench. I dunno, could be alright, I just wouldn’t do it. Like I said, Kleiza’s a biatch.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions
JR, Chaunce and Al
Hope they can bond so JR can be on the team again. When Adrian took over, the team splintered. Got to get back together.
that's true...
one thing that made us so good during 2009 was our chemistry, now its not that we didn’t have it last year, it’s just before that… we had Dahntay Jones, JR, Bird, KMart all going crazy on teh bench… we need that again… maybe we could get that swagger back..
I think Karl's absence and Dantley's horrible-ness is being way overlooked.
There’s no way the Nugs lose that first round series to the Jazz last year if Karl is coaching.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:40 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
because Karl never loses in the first round.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 15, 2010 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions
We still would have lost
We would of had a better chance, but there was no way Martin and Andersen were going to hold up. Not to mention Nene got hurt in game 5.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
You really think so?
Wow. I am the exact opposite. I think even with K-Mart and Bird out we still would have beat the Jazz if Karl was coaching.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions
I wouldn't bet on THAT
but I DO think that George Karl consistently pulled the Nuggets heads out of their asses throughout the season whenever they drifted off course. Dantley just would not do that for whatever reason, he couldn’t. When they started to drift, it was a freakin downward spiral.
I truly believe that having Coach Karl would have made a huge difference.
by deezNuggets on Jul 15, 2010 10:06 PM MDT up reply actions
We probably win game 2 at home
If coach Karl coaches and we win the series even with a clipped Bird and weak Kmart.
Though I think we needed them healthy vs. the Lakers
Exactly
Win game two and the series is belongs to the Nuggets. Jazz weren’t going to win game 7 in Denver.
by blooming rock on Jul 16, 2010 11:14 AM MDT up reply actions
Great break down Feinstein
Two things you pointed out that I was keen on. First, Al’s defense. I was watching NBA TV last night and during Game Time one of the anylists pointed out that Harrington was THE defensive stopper during the early part of his career with Indiana. I also was watching a Summer League game and saw an interview with him and he really coulnd’t seem like a better guy. He was smiling the whole interview and stated how happy he was to be playing in Denver. I, for one, am excited about seeing this guy play.
Second, I thought your point about him coexisting with Melo was a fair one. They are, in reality, the exact same player for the most part. Both about 6’9, shooters and me-first players. But the difference between them is I think Harrington has been forced into the me-first persona, where as Melo simply is it. I really believe we are going to see a far different Harrington than we have seen in Golden State and New York. But the thing I am most thrilled about is what Harrintong does best, shoot. I couldn’t agree more about the offense bogging down last year. There were more times than I would like to remember where saw zero offense for long stretches in the game. Harrington should fix this problem immediatly and hopefully this will allow us to focus entirely on our defense.
Overall, I think this is a great move. It shows us that our owner is willing to spend and because of that we are going to be in the mix out West for years to come.
Stiff 4 Life
Agreed, also: This spreads the floor.
Which is a big deal for the weapons this team has on offense.
by blooming rock on Jul 15, 2010 3:42 PM MDT up reply actions
also agree
one difference between the two is that Melo attacks the paint. He won’t be running into Al there.
by deezNuggets on Jul 15, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Love it hvino.
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by Nate Timmons on Jul 15, 2010 1:47 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I think this, and the Sheldon Williams signing, is a signal that the Nuggets brass are going to move K-Mart sometime this year, probably in season to an under-preforming team looking to drop salary.
by George Karl Marx on Jul 15, 2010 1:20 PM MDT reply actions
For all of those bitching about the AC signing
This poll has quickly been forgotten
64% approval rating just 4 months ago, so what changed since then?
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
two things
1) He continued playing after that poll closed. The clock struck midnight and he turned back into A.C. and his play returned to it’s normal crap self.
2) I think AC got his family to log in and vote. No other reasonable explanation.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 15, 2010 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions
AC's little hot streak ended and he went back to sucking?
Vamos Alberto!
Quitter's People United member # 42
He just went back to the bench
I don’t think you can argue that AC didn’t do a great job filling in for Ty when he went down with the shoulder injury
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
AC is good
In very short stretches. The good thing about Karl Jr. is that I think coach K may play him more at PG even over AC. I trust Coby as a PG. A coach’s son is probably the smartest player on the floor!
Agreed about Coby
Since we already have him signed, why sign AC? I really want to see Coby get some playing time. I really like him as a player from what I’ve seen,.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions
I would also like to see more Coby
As for AC: He is not a good shot, and he should be forbidden from passing in transition, but besides that, he is an absolutely tenacious on-ball defender and has completely taken certain guards out of their game. If we can limit him to those games, and those minutes, plus garbage time, he will be an absolute killer bench specialist for us.
His turnovers have annoyed us, but his defense has changed the momentum of games.
by deezNuggets on Jul 15, 2010 10:30 PM MDT up reply actions
Coach K
When did Denver fire G.K. and hire coach K? I’m all for it, he did a great job with the olympic team, but I must have missed that event.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 16, 2010 9:23 AM MDT up reply actions
My God
It’s like Sheldon’s wearing a helmet and just wraped his skin over top it.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Jul 15, 2010 7:27 PM MDT up reply actions
I love the Simpsons
This is hillarious!
by distortedman on Jul 15, 2010 11:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Are you saying
that all turtles look alike? You are an anti-turtle-ite!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jul 16, 2010 9:25 AM MDT up reply actions
Melo will sign with us eventually
The thing is it might take some time because our center will come via a Kmart trade. Relax people.
If Melo chose to leave all that money and play for a crappy Knicks teams that would pretty much be like the Nuggets- Amare=Kenyon 2.0, Melo=Melo, CP3= CB1 especially b/c CP3 is injury prone these days, then he is doing it to make a name for himself.
He is not the arrogant LeBron James, he is the harder-working and more humblel star small forward, I doubt he leaves to improve his image.
Melo aint leaving unless he is able to play for the Lakers (he has a house there) and lucky for us Kobe is still with them for a little while.
anyone know what number he's gonna wear?
I know that he wore 7 in NY, 3 and 32 (only b/c 3 was taken, so he the second time he went back he wanted 3 and 2) in Indiana, and 3 in GSW…
3 is taken by Ty and Chauncey pretty much retired 7 for Elway last year… I personally hopes he Elway/ Chauncey let him wear 7… we had a great year that year and I’m superstitious when it comes to the Nuggets… or if not maybe 17, which is my lucky #…
any word on what # he’ll wear?
maybe some1 with twitter should ask him
i like the sigining for two things
al can light it up (defense wise, couldn’t see due to his past two coaches)
shelden as i’ve seen playing for boston can rough it up to get boards
all we just need is a legit back up big for nene, because small ball can only take us so far (playoffs)
QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
"What do you mean try? If I want to fire you, I'll fire you." (on martin)
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