Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

[UPDATED] Do the honorable thing, AD: get ejected!...

Gyi0060272140_medium_mediumIf acting coach Adrian Dantley wants to make a sacrifice to help the Nuggets win Game 5, he should do the honorable thing: get himself ejected.

Star-divide

With each passing game, the gray stripes that hover above Nuggets acting coach Adrian Dantley's ears are getting higher and higher to the point that he's starting to look like Jim Brown's Fireball character from "The Running Man."  AD is understandably stressed out, having to take over the coaching reins from a man on the verge of winning 1,000 NBA games and most unfortunately, the soft-spoken AD is not doing a particularly good job.

If I've learned anything since entering the sports blogosphere, blaming one man for a team's demise is neither fair nor accurate (unless that man is Bernie Bickerstaff or Dan Issel, of course).  And while AD certainly deserves a lot of blame for the way the Nuggets have played since he took over - after all, we measure success in sports by wins and losses and nothing else - his veteran "leadership" of Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups and Kenyon Martin must shoulder much of this blame themselves (at least Melo is putting up points, without which the Nuggets would be in even bigger trouble right now).

But it must be said that having AD manning this operation from the bench is hurting more than it's helping, and there are several theories going around as to why.  

There's the substitute teacher theory; i.e. no matter what AD does these players will never respond.  This theory states that the likes of Melo, K-Mart and J.R. Smith barely listen to their general, George Karl, so how can they be expected to listen to one of the sergeants?  There's probably some truth to this theory.

There's the great-players-make-shitty-coaches theory.  How many times have we seen this theory prove itself out in NBA history?  Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Kiki Vandeweghe, Kevin McHale, Wes Unseld, Willis Reed, Dave Cowens and Bob Cousy were all failures as head coaches.  Only Larry Bird bucked this trend, but even he acknowledged that much of his success was attributed to delegating responsibility to sharp assistants Rick Carlisle and Dick Harter.  Typically great coaches - be it Karl, Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Pat Riley and so on - were scrappy, tough role players before becoming bench men.  I've always believed in this theory, too.

Then there's a new theory a friend of mine brought up about AD: known to be jerk as a player, maybe the referees don't respect and/or like him from his playing days and that's why the Nuggets aren't getting any calls.  Thinking this to be an interesting angle on the AD situation, I've asked several people who currently work and recently worked within the NBA and asked if there's any truth to it.  While no one would go on the record, the consensus I'm hearing is that AD was indeed "aloof" as a player and he's getting no respect from the referees whatsoever.  As much crap as we've given Karl over the years for not working the refs more, I'm hearing from good sources that Karl knows how to sway calls in the Nuggets favor while Dantley doesn't even get the opportunity because the refs don't listen to him. 

UPDATED: ESPN.com's Chris Broussard points out that the Nuggets have attempted four less free throws per game under Dantley than under Karl.  Interesting.

Fair or not, this is the situation we're in with AD.  The players have likely tuned him out.  Like the great players that have failed as coaches before him, he's probably not meant to be the head guy.  And making matters worse, the refs are giving him no respect.  

When Karl announced his battle with throat and neck cancer, we were sold on the basketball wizardry of young Nuggets assistants John Welch, Chad Iske and Jamahl Mosley and, of course, the brilliance of Tim "my sweaters never match my sports coats" Grgrich.  We were sold on these guys crafting the game plans and AD, in a figurehead role akin to Larry Bird with the Pacers, simply having to execute them after the balls are tipped-off.

I feel awful for AD.  The media guys who cover the team universally tell me that he couldn't be a nicer guy.  I've also heard from others that he's working hard, he's earnest, has been doggedly loyal to Karl (who inherited AD from Jeff Bzdelik and Kiki Vandeweghe) and is trying to do everything possible to win these games.  But sometimes working hard and working earnestly doesn't mean you're working right.

And thus, if the refs don't respect him and the players don't listen to him, AD should do the honorable thing in Game 5 and get himself ejected and do so early.  After the first bullshit, ticky-tacky foul call laid on Carmelo Anthony in Game 5, AD should erupt a la Gene Hackman in "Hoosiers".  He should bark, scream, stomp and grandstand in support of his players.  This will get the crowd riled up and put the playbook in the hands of Welch, allegedly the Nuggets true top assistant.

It's sad to say, but getting himself ejected might be the best possible way for Adrian Dantley to deliver a Game 5 victory for Nuggets fans.  Take one for the team, AD!

Photo courtesy of Getty Images: Andy Lyons 

Comment 94 comments  |  3 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Rec'd rec'd (the comment and Andrew's piece)

Excellent piece. It might never happen, but damn it would be nice to see Dantley finally stick up for his players.

Quitter's People United: Member 12

by Uh on Apr 27, 2010 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

+1

http://www.bluefirepoker.com/blog.aspx?blogid=68
twitter.com/chantech

by chantech on Apr 27, 2010 12:50 AM MDT up reply actions  

I have agree...

Andrew this reminds me of when you first started the site and we bloggers could feel the tension through your words. Great to have the real Stiff back.

The Stiffs Republic of Quitters!!!!!!

by The U.N. Fab Five on Apr 27, 2010 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions  

Interesting take

There are some interesting angles in there, some I hadn’t even thought of. Much better than your last effort calling out Melo.

Quitter's People United: Member #19

by airforcefoo on Apr 26, 2010 11:26 PM MDT reply actions  

Players and Refs

I agree with your assessment of Adrian Dantley as it pertain to the players. George Karl should have chosen the assistant who the players respect the most to act as head coach in his absence. I disagree when it comes to the refs. Referees are supposed to be fair and impartial when it comes to the way they call the game. They are also supposed to know the rules and follow them. David Stern is the one who should be blamed for the Nuggets getting the bad end of the calls and nobody else. Any ref who continually makes blatantly bad calls and/or calls games in one team’s favor should be fired, period.

by golfer514 on Apr 26, 2010 11:53 PM MDT reply actions  

I think a coach getting ejected in a playoff game can define the momentum of the game

possibly the series.

I would go as far as to say, the ONLY way the Nuggets win the series is if AD goes for the Doubtle T and heads to the locker room early, like you suggested.

Or Coby Karl… That would be kinda awesome too. Damn.

by Missing Lynx on Apr 26, 2010 11:56 PM MDT reply actions  

A few good Points there

i also feel bad for AD because he is a good guy from what people say.

Quitter's People United member #7

by stan_26 on Apr 26, 2010 11:58 PM MDT reply actions  

well i'm afraid sometimes good guys just can't cut it in the nba

just ask shawn bradley

QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
a proud follower of pickaxes, the star, and the almighty cervelli\

by Kevin L on Apr 26, 2010 11:59 PM MDT up reply actions  

sometimes you have to be ruthless to take command of this team

QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
a proud follower of pickaxes, the star, and the almighty cervelli\

by Kevin L on Apr 27, 2010 12:02 AM MDT up reply actions  

Good post

but if AD is going to get ejected he may as well do the real honorable thing and make it a punch to Williams douchy face after another disgraceful flop, integrity in the game restored and it all happened because of a punch…who woulda thunk it.

Quitter's People United member # 42

by Phil H. on Apr 27, 2010 12:12 AM MDT reply actions  

nah i like dwill and respect his game

give it to boozer!!!!!!!!

QUITTER'S PEOPLE UNITED # 3
a proud follower of pickaxes, the star, and the almighty cervelli\

by Kevin L on Apr 27, 2010 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions  

This

Can’t stand boozer

Quitter's People United: Member 12

by Uh on Apr 27, 2010 12:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

i'm a fan of joakim noah

but he earned even more points in my books after what he said about boozer in this video:

http://blogs.thescore.com/nba/2010/04/19/joakim-noahs-childhood-was-pretty-great-his-adult-life-is-even-better/

fast forward to around 2:02. had me cracking up for a while.

by YaSrsly on Apr 27, 2010 12:32 AM MDT up reply actions  

NICE

“Boozer’s dumb ass jump…so I dunked on his ass”

Noah is the best

Quitter's People United: Member 12

by Uh on Apr 27, 2010 1:00 PM MDT up reply actions  

Nice Points

AD getting ejected might even have the surprise effect of gaining a bit of respect from his players. Getting ejected will send a message to the players: “yeah, i’m with you guys.”

Heck, maybe even a technical would do just that.

Quitter's People United Member #27

by holyMonkey on Apr 27, 2010 12:40 AM MDT reply actions  

Here's my theory

Some guys were born to be coaches and some guys weren’t. The guys who weren’t never have great success in the NBA. Sure, at times they can be kind of successful given the right talent, but guys like Phil, Karl, Sloan and Brown were born to be coaches and thus, success follows them everywhere they go no matter what type of talent they have around them. I don’t care if AD is a nice guy, he needs to realize that he shouldn’t be coaching before some team hires him, even though that scenario is highly unlikely after this stint. But honestly, no matter how bad the coach is, at the end of the day, the players are playing the game and our guys are doing as bad of a job playing as AD is coaching and the sad thing is they CAN play better, AD can’t necessarily coach better.

"Jive turkey is a little over the line my man!"

"I'm kinda grumpy today, dude. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I was having those dreams again. Ya know, how it's just me in a castle and I gotta fight, like, a thousand wizards and the only way to beat them is to punch them as hard as I can in their faces. Then, when I'm done, all their little wizard wives came out and wanted me to have sex with them - which is kinda weird."

by GoldenNugget on Apr 27, 2010 1:28 AM MDT reply actions  

Right before tipoff...

… unbeknownst to the players, George Karl will walk out of the locker room, do his hockey-check of the assistants, and act as assistant coach from the bench, inspiring a win. [cue the sappy music]. Then JR and Karl will have a meaningful man hug, and the inspired Nugs will go on to win the championship.

by margabelle on Apr 27, 2010 7:42 AM MDT reply actions  

yelling and screaming by AD is not going to help

I put the blame on the Front Office and the team they assembled. I’m fine with the starting five, but the FO put together an inconsistent bench that lacks physical presence and the confidence of the coaches. As long as Bird is the only big coming off the bench we will not go very far in the playoffs. How is it that the Jazz found a 7-1 300 pound bruiser from the Ukraine and the Nugget FO got NOTHING for Marcus Camby?

by passtheball on Apr 27, 2010 8:10 AM MDT reply actions  

Nice post Andrew

Rec´d. Unfortunately, I dont think AD has it in him to go off like that. I agree that all three of those facors you mentioned are part of the problem. At this point, they all look like they just want to be gone fishin. What a waste.

by gonugs on Apr 27, 2010 8:14 AM MDT reply actions  

This is exactly...

…what we needed in Game 2! Clearly the turning point in the series was the worst officiated playoff game in recent memory. I was yelling from my 5th row seats (corner loge behind the bench) for AD to get angry and work the refs. But to no avail. AD didn’t talk back or challenge many bs calls, especially the offensive charges on Melo. This column was needed, Andrew, and I completely agree on so many fronts that AD needs to be more confrontational with the refs. But similar to Nene’s plight of too much Mr. Nice Guy, does AD have it in him?

by timoptic on Apr 27, 2010 8:35 AM MDT reply actions  

nice concept

Keeping AD in the head coach position is like not pulling the goalie after he’s had eight goals scored against him in the first two periods – it is good for both sides if he is removed. What doesn’t make sense to me is that kroenke isn’t bringing in a true interim head coach…i would bring in hanz.

by hungryhead on Apr 27, 2010 8:48 AM MDT reply actions  

Uh, what?

Down one head coach already, you now want the Nuggets to be down two, AND spot the Jazz 2 points in an elimination game where we lost the last one at home by 3?

No thanks. AD is a neophyte and is trying his hardest, no need for him to make it even more difficult on his players. Disagree with me all you want, but losing yet another cog in the machine AND two points is the last thing the Nuggets need in an elimination game.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 8:59 AM MDT reply actions  

also

How do people reconcile wanting AD to get ejected with the “stop whining” sentiment we have had lately? Seems kinda hypocritical to me.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 9:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

the "stop whining" is directed at the players, not the coaches

of course, the player’s whining is directly related to the coach’s unwillingness to stand up for them.

by Rainbow skyline on Apr 27, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

Adrian Dantley’s ears are getting higher and higher to the point that he’s starting to look like Jim Brown’s Fireball character from “The Running Man.”

Great movie reference.

"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn

by 49er16 on Apr 27, 2010 9:03 AM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, this reference was awesome

Here’s another one that might fit our Nuggets…

Amber: They’re running men. Last season’s winners.
Fireball: No. Last season’s losers.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 27, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Running Man

Where is our own Bakersfield Butcher???

When you were a baby in your crib, your father looked down at you, he had but one wish, that you would grow up to be a man. Well, look at you now. You just got your asses WHUPPED by a bunch of god damn nerds. NERDS!!

by Failed Twin on Apr 27, 2010 9:13 AM MDT reply actions  

somewhere cutting up the meat for next years tacos?

"I believe that basketball, when a certain level of unselfish team play is realized, can serve as a kind of metaphor for ultimate cooperation. It is a sport where success, as symbolized by the championship, requires that the dictates of the community prevail over selfish personal impulses. An exceptional player is simply one point on a five-pointed star. Statistics—such as points, rebounds, or assists per game—can never explain the remarkable interaction that takes place on a successful pro team."
~ Bill Bradley
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/bektur34 - denver nuggets videos

by Bek$ on Apr 27, 2010 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

after watching that birdman clip

in the fanshots section, i can understand why dantley is about to have a nervous breakdown. we’re falling apart quick. its been a long season with a lot of adversity and its taking its toll on everyone.

by 808inDenver on Apr 27, 2010 9:48 AM MDT reply actions  

Before the series on Vic and Gary's show

Birdman said something about needing GK back in a way much more than needed as a “get well” wish. AD has lost the team and fuck Birdman for stirring it up mid-game (and kudos to Melo).

by margabelle on Apr 27, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

check fanshots

the one from game 4, where bird asked to be taken out of the game then got into a little talk with melo. talk was minor imo, but his attitude looked crappy.

by 808inDenver on Apr 27, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for that

I lost a good deal of respect for Bird after watching that. Also shows that at least Melo’s trying to get his team right, but that is just disrespect. If I were Dantley I’d bench Bird for Petro and Allen tonight, elimination game be damned.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

i liked what melo did too. although he got in birds face, seemd more like a, “cmon, youre better than that and we need you” type of thing. im liking a lot of the leadership things melo has been doing

by 808inDenver on Apr 27, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

Nah Man

It looked to me like Bird doesn’t respect Melo or Melo said something the wrong way to Bird. Bird said “I was wide open, Fuck Man!” That is someone telling you to watch your mouth. Next time when they are alone if he talks to him that way Bird is gonna bust him in the mouth. That’s what I take from it. Not “ah, what a good job be Melo.”

by Gasus on Apr 27, 2010 12:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Who the fuck is Bird not to respect Melo? I mean seriously – you’re talking about a guy who on his worst day is 10 times the player Andersen is on his best. I like Birdman as much as the next guy, but he shouldn’t be out there in his current condition (i.e., w/one leg and one arm), and if he’s going to be, he damn well better listen to the one guy who’s shown up this series when he’s got something to say.

If Bird was playing well, he might have a leg to stand on here, but as it is, Melo was 100% right to call him on his bullshit. If it were up to me, he’d be benched the rest of the playoffs.

by CraftyB on Apr 27, 2010 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think there's more to this then what we saw

Andersen and Carmelo looked pissed. Chauncey said there’s nothing going on, but I don’t believe him one bit.

Whatever the reason, You’re both right.

What Would Brian Boitano Do?
He'd quit and eat a Twinkie with Charles Barkley
Quitter's Proud United Member #11

by Mini Hulk on Apr 27, 2010 1:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

The team is tired of Meelo ball

That is your something that is going on. I can virtually guarantee it.

by Gasus on Apr 27, 2010 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not too sure self-rightous is the correct phrasing

Maybe ironic? Most fans see him as selfish and I definitely understand why but I think all of the coaching and fan arguement about JR being selfish is what has hurt his game this year. If we could just turn back the clock and have everybody shut up about him and just let him play we’d probably be seeing the same dominant performances this year as we saw last year. I just wish he could tune everybody out and start jacking up the 3 ball again. If he misses a couple he just needs to keep shooting till he gets hot. When he is hot the Nugs are unbeatable and he can get hot more often than most. Not this year though because he is paying too much attention to the coaches and fans.

by Gasus on Apr 27, 2010 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

so you hate "Meelo ball"

but you fully advocate a streaky shooter firing up as many shots as he wishes?

OK then.

since you’re so enamoured with stats (based on my observations of your “Meelo ball” analysis), if you haven’t noticed, JR actually shot more on average this year than he did last year (11 to 13). he also hit the same amount of shots on average he did last year as he did this year (5). he’s also taken more 3s on average this year than he did last year (5-6) and hit the same amount (2).

two variables involved in this:

1. JR missed 6 more games this year than he did last.
2. JR started 18 games vs 0 this year, which may have resulted in him shooting less in order to even distribute shots amongst the starters (which includes your beloved Meelo)

in short, he shot worse this year than he did last year in spite of taking more shots, and you’re advocating that he shoots even more. i understand the whole concept of streaky shooters, but when you’ve been even more inconsistent throughout an entire season, i don’t think giving the green light to shoot even more is a particularly great idea.

by YaSrsly on Apr 27, 2010 4:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

I dont think melos play is selfish but

his “meelo” ball is more effective than the teams

game 4
Melo=13/26 shots team=24/58
melo=4/4 3pointes team=2/12
melo=9/9 fts team=17/26
melo 39 points team=65

just shows who showed up to play and who didnt

In time the criticism turns to praise
Carmelo balled hard, relentlessly attacking the bucket-Colin Powers

by m3llofan on Apr 27, 2010 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good Point but...

you forgot a couple key stats

Melo 1 assist Team 12
Melo 9 Turnovers Team 9

Don’t get me wrong, I love melo’s game too but when a guy gets this many touches he needs to have more that 1 assist. He also needs to take care of the ball better. If half of his turnovers become passes, this might have been a closer game…

by nuggs22 on Apr 27, 2010 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

???

Melo didn’t have all the assists – team total was 18 for game 4.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 28, 2010 9:07 AM MDT up reply actions  

team assist total for last game was 13

Melo had 1 as the above post indicates

If you mean turnovers, Melo had 9 and the rest of the team had 9 for a total of 18.

Just following m3llofan’s format from above

Just noticed another terrible stat, K-Marts +/- was -22 uhh that is not good for our “defensive leader”

by nuggs22 on Apr 28, 2010 11:42 AM MDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I did mean turnovers

K-Mart is obviously dragging. Good to have him back, but it’s so apparent the dude is not close to 100%. Sucks.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 28, 2010 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions  

Better yet, AD should

allow himself to be fired. Take one for the team

Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Time for his ring to come true
Daley for Closer!!
Quitter's People United Member #4

by SDcat09 on Apr 27, 2010 10:08 AM MDT reply actions  

No

We still want him on the bench as an assistant. As a former player, he’s great in the ‘good cop’ role to Kal’s ‘bad cop role’. Sometimes the players need an earful and when their ego is hurt, a guy like AD can talk to them to take the edge off.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 27, 2010 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions  

Frankly I'm a little disgusted by the sentiment around here

AD gets thrown into the fire with virtually no warning (and no head coaching experience) with a squad that, to put it lightly, is largely a group of headcases and we respond by saying he should get himself ejected? So we should just spot the Jazz 2 techs and lose our replacement coach who still probably knows more than the other assistants around him? Who’d coach for the rest of the game, Chad Iske?

Give me a break. As JR Smith put it (amazingly), “Where would the Lakers be without Phil Jackson?”

And here everyone talks about not jawing at the refs. How about we have Dantley spend his time motivating his players to rotate and play defense better, share the ball, and try NOT to get himself ejected, while also working the officials actively?

Sheesh. Some of the posts on here are as mercurial and wishy-washy as our squad.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 10:25 AM MDT reply actions  

Agreed

When a coach like Karl gets tossed, it’s potentially inspirational. I don’t see an AD sideline meltdown having the same affect…

by CraftyB on Apr 27, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

He's been the assistant head coach for how many years?

He should know better than anyone how to use timeouts(and to use ALL at your disposal), who is in his rotation(he admitted to forgetting about Lawson a few weeks ago), and how to manage these personalities…

oh and maybe yell at the refs from time to time.

Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Time for his ring to come true
Daley for Closer!!
Quitter's People United Member #4

by SDcat09 on Apr 27, 2010 10:31 AM MDT up reply actions  

No offense, but being an assistant HC and actually being a HC are two completely different animals

Because you go from making suggestions to making decisions, and then it’s your ass on the line. I haven’t been incredibly upset with AD’s timeout usage. His rotations are suspect, but again, they are more than likely his overreaction to runs Utah goes on than anything else.

Sorry, I still think it’s a load of shit to call AD out in this situation.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

He's just in over his head

He wasn’t hired to be the head coach and he’s trying to do his best now, and his best isn’t very good.

I suppose you could make the argument that a truly good and qualified assistant coach should be able to step in and do better in this situation. But I can’t really get upset at AD either. Instead I find myself cursing the rotten luck the Nuggets so often seem to have. If it hadn’t been for the knee tendonitis and the throat cancer, they might’ve competed for the #1 seed this year.

by ParkHillNative on Apr 27, 2010 11:03 AM MDT up reply actions  

If only they beat the -.500 teams

They may not have ended up where they’re at. Chances are they’d be playing the Blazers right now. It’s unforchanent about what has happened, but there’s nothing we can really do except hope that they can climb out of the massive hole they dug and fight back.

What Would Brian Boitano Do?
He'd quit and eat a Twinkie with Charles Barkley
Quitter's Proud United Member #11

by Mini Hulk on Apr 27, 2010 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions  

I spent a while cursing the losses to bad teams too

But even if they’d taken care of a few more of those games, having no GK right now and having K-Mart limping along as a shadow of his mid-season self would have them in trouble against pretty much any of the WC playoff teams. That’s how I see it anyway.

by ParkHillNative on Apr 27, 2010 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

I disagree. His lack in all these areas

gives the team no confidence in him as a leader going forward. I agree he’s been in a bad situation, but when he calls out his best player, as though the player had a terrible game and other players are tweeting about team dysfunction, this tells me he’s on the verge of losing the team altogether. He doesn’t seem to stand up for his players during a game, or in pressers afterward(Melo example). When you’ve been around as long as he has, as a player and a coach, he needs to step up and get it together too.

Troy Tulowitzki - Best SS in the MLB - 2010 MVP
Brad Hawpe - Will prove the doubters wrong
Todd Helton - Time for his ring to come true
Daley for Closer!!
Quitter's People United Member #4

by SDcat09 on Apr 27, 2010 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions  

Call me crazy (or slightly off topic)

But I’d have loved to see Melo take a heavy fine earlier in the season and publicly call out the refs, complete with press conference and game footage if need be. Call it the Rasheed Wallace method – if you’re getting screwed on calls to begin with, what harm can it really do? Now it’s a story, and suddenly the spotlight and the pressure shifts to the officials – knowing their calls will be closely scrutinized by both the league and the media at large, the likelihood that they’ll try to get away with absolute murder with everyone watching goes way down.

Sure, you lose some $ and it probably leaves you prone to the quick T, but Melo draws the fastest T’s league as is, so what’s the downside?

by CraftyB on Apr 27, 2010 10:27 AM MDT reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd

The NBA is in a sad state if that’s what it takes, but I think you’re right.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 27, 2010 11:16 AM MDT up reply actions  

it wouldnt do any good

d howard and his coach talk about the refs all the time. I was watching the Orlando game last night and i thought about how Melo always gets fouls, but they do the same thing to d howard. He got hit with calls that were little taps and things like that, just like melo. He even got called 4 a foul when a offensive player pulled him arm down after getting his shot blocked

In time the criticism turns to praise
Carmelo balled hard, relentlessly attacking the bucket-Colin Powers

by m3llofan on Apr 27, 2010 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions  

Adrian Dantley is a pussy

He barely yells. Guy can’t even handle Andersen. What’s ip with that?

What Would Brian Boitano Do?
He'd quit and eat a Twinkie with Charles Barkley
Quitter's Proud United Member #11

by Mini Hulk on Apr 27, 2010 10:47 AM MDT reply actions  

Yes, truly

How many playoff games have you coached?

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 10:52 AM MDT up reply actions  

It is what it is

Yes, AD was thrown into a tough spot. Everyone has been pushed into such a position in their life, be it in an emergency, at work, whatever. Everyone here acknowledges that AD got shoved into this. That said, when life puts you into a tough spot, you step up to the best of your abilitiy. I give AD all the credit in the world, especially since he’s not making excuses, but that doesn’t mean he’s not failing.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 27, 2010 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

I wasn't saying he wasn't failing, just that he is trying

Just get a little tired of the disrespect posters have for Dantley when he’s clearly attempting to corral a fiery group in a playoff situation with virtually no experience before that against a coach with the most coaching experience in the league.

Swats.

by Colin Neilson on Apr 27, 2010 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions  

What the...?

Oh snap. I wasn’t supposed to post that. :p
My bad.
Please ignore that pointless comment

What Would Brian Boitano Do?
He'd quit and eat a Twinkie with Charles Barkley
Quitter's Proud United Member #11

by Mini Hulk on Apr 27, 2010 10:57 AM MDT reply actions  

if you read Bill Simmons book

he talks about how Isiah Thomas allegedly asked Pistons management to get rid of AD because Isiah didn’t think AD was a guy willing to sacrifice and play as a team.

by jb22 on Apr 27, 2010 12:32 PM MDT reply actions  

bill simmons is wrong

thomas used his influence with the owner to get his flunky friend mark aguirre on the team. aguirre has been riding isiah’s coattails for over 20 years. thomas got him an assistant’s job with the knick’s and was trying to get them both hired at depaul university. we all know what a great coach, general manager and team president thomas turned out to be. isiah has no credibility when he overdoses on presciption drugs AND THROWS HIS OWN TEENAGE DAUGHTER UNDER THE BUS BY SAYING IT WAS HER AND NOT HIM THAT WAS IN NEED OF EMERGENCY MEDICAL ATTENTION. thomas was given an opportunity to rehab his reputation by florida international university. when the job at depaul opened up he was ready to bail out on the only team that was willing to give him a last chance. never forget how thomas complained about having to play north carolina in a preseason game. you know the defending national champs that lost to dayton in the NIT final.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Apr 27, 2010 1:36 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think he should get himself ejected on purpose but...

I would like to see him make more of a ruckus. Yell at some players, stand court-side and yell at the refs on a bad call, things like that. What he is doing now isn’t working so a change is surely in order.

Go Nuggets!

by MMGraves on Apr 27, 2010 12:40 PM MDT reply actions  

The one way we get a guaranteed W is

If Karl can somehow manage to simply show up at the Pepsi center.

He can sit up in the club level if he needs to, but I think his sheer presence inspires an ass-whipping like no other with the shot of energy it would bring to the players. That’s inspiration. Of course, I know he can only do so much, but damn, that’d be awesome to witness.

Man I wish that could happen! C’mon coach we need ya!

by stiffy on Apr 27, 2010 12:51 PM MDT reply actions   2 recs

feel bad for the guy

And I know he’s going to get all of the blame which isn’t fair. To me it’s more about what coach Karl brought rather than what AD doesn’t – he doesn’t have the skill set to deal with this roster plain and simple.

Bat88m

by RyanRTE on Apr 27, 2010 1:56 PM MDT reply actions  

feinstein's theories

substitute teacher- you hit the nail right on the head with this one. smith gets substituted for during a game and walks off the court. feinstein did a post about how smith should have gotten suspended or traded. that established the front office was not going to back up the coaching staff. by not extending karl’s contract before the season he was already the substitute teacher. your great players do not make great coaches. i agree with the general theory. the part about phil jackson being a tough and scrappy is flat out wrong. before bill walton phil jackson was the nba resident hippy dippy weatherman. adrian dantley being a jerk. flat out wrong. your sources confirmed he was ALOOF. how do you equate aloof with being a jerk? coach dantley is old school and a class act. where he comes from you do not complain to referees or talk back to the coaches. he was an all americacan and notre dame graduate. he won a gold medal in the olympics before pros in the nba played in the games. he was an nba scoring champion, all star and a hall of famer. i have my own personal theory for you feinstein. i call it the larry brown coaches the new york knicks theory. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO YOU ARE, IF THE PLAYERS DO NOT LISTEN AND COOPERATE, IF THE FRONT OFFICE AND OWNERSHIP DOES NOT BACK YOU UP, YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED. larry brown was head coach from the start of the season and was allowed to put his own system in place. adrian dantley was put into a bad situation in the 2nd half of the season. he knew there was no way he could impose his will on a team that did things their own way. let us review your big plan for winning a basketball game. start an argument that will never be won. stop the playing of the game. give the opponent a chance to score at the free throw line. get kicked out of the game. give the nba thousands of dollars. just exactly how that translates into points for the nuggets and stopping the jazz from scoring?

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Apr 27, 2010 2:17 PM MDT reply actions   1 recs

About JR... that's pure speculation

This is a way crazier theory than Feinstein’s. Andrew is at least drawing on historical facts and multiple points of view. How do you blame the front office for not disciplining JR? If Karl wanted to discipline JR he would have. There is no front office conspiracy to torture Karl with JR that can be proven by facts. Karl was offered a 3 year contract and refused it for money reasons. That’s his decision. The front office did the right thing by being weary of giving an expensive, long term contract to a coach with the future of the team so uncertain. If this core group can;t get over the hump it makes sense to start over and expedite the rebuilding process. Karl’s substitute teacher status existed because that is what George chose. He wanted more money

The front office made great offseason acquisitions of Ty and AAA, yet they struggled mightily to fit into Karl’s rotation. They clearly didn’t support Karl when refusing to re-sign Najera and trading away Camby for peanuts. Those 2 decisions were genius moves, and strongly opposed by Karl. The front office DID support Karl by signing AC to 3 one year minimum contracts in a row. 3 years invested into a backup point guard who contributes nothing come playoff time and clearly isn’t an NBA caliber talent. I don’t have any facts to back this up, but I will venture a guess that the only reason the front office signs a player to 3 minimum contracts in a row is to do a favor for GK.

AD needs to do something to assert himself as a leader. As of right now, we know the players are not taking to his direction to heart. It may be a truly helpless situation he’s in because everyone knows GK is the real coach, regardless of how nice or hard working AD is. Getting ejected accomplishes 2 things. Sends a message to the team, crowd, and referees that AD won;t be a helpless lame duck coach who can only sit and watch as the team starts imploding. Secondly, it’s going to send a message to the other assistants to do more and share some of heat AD is taking for this teams struggles right now. Something has to change, that’s the whole point of this article

twitter.com/skitalicious

by runningdonut on Apr 27, 2010 5:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

here is some historical facts for you

last season melo refused to come out of a game and is suspended for a game. this season smith walks out on his teammates, coaches and fans during a home game. the front office set the standard with the franchise player with a suspension. you want to argue leaving the court during a game is a lesser transgression go ahead. another fact is karl’s contract negotiation did not start until after the regular season began. you made a very good point about a lame duck coach. that was the position karl was put in by the front office. that was their decision not his. i have stated before that was a huge mistake by stan not extending him before the season. the second time in the team’s history they went to a conference finals and tied for the best regular season record and the front office never made him an offer BEFORE the season started. major speculation on your part that by being ejected will accomplish sending a message to anybody or anything. coach dantley has been telling the team not to lose their composure and to maintain their poise. acting like an hysterical ninny because things do not go your way is a piss poor example to set.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Apr 27, 2010 6:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

My theory on Melo/JR suspensions

I agree that JR should have been punished, a 1 game suspension being appropriate. I have a serious doubt that it would have had any effect on JR but it would have made a statement about the coaching staff’s discipline. Melo’s suspension last year was excessive. While it might have had a positive effect on Melo it cost us that game in Detroit and, as you pointed out not consistent with the coaches holding others up to the same standard. Case in point Chris Andersen giving up 2 layups, taking an ill-advised jump shot and asking to come out of the game. Dantley obliges and Andersen walks straight to the bench with no one questioning what he was doing except…. Melo? I cannot believe AD and others wouldn’t get on Birdman about it. While not as serious as refusing to come out of the game when asked it shows a similar level of disrespect for the coaching. The point of this rambling is the coaching staff hasn’t committed the team to standard of discipline and they bear some of the blame for it. Suspensions don’t do anything if you continue to allow the offending behavior during the game.

It was a mistake the way GK’s contract was handled evidenced by your argument. Without knowing what happened it’s impossible to say which side is at fault for it. While AD getting ejected would set a bad example, for some reason in my head I can’t imagine it would hurt. That’s just personal opinion because obviously, AD won’t do that. I seriously give it a less than 1% chance of happening. But AD just can’t get it done the way we are going now and I hope something changes in game 5

twitter.com/skitalicious

by runningdonut on Apr 27, 2010 7:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

+1

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Apr 27, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Just show us you have a fricken PULSE!

The guy is virtually comatose on the bench, while everyone else is going ballistic about the refs.
Go berserk at the 1st inevitable, bs offensive foul called on your stars, & beg them to toss you! Look ALIVE, for gosh sakes!!!!

by VerbalKint on Apr 27, 2010 2:39 PM MDT reply actions  

Compelling argument

I never thought about the fact that AD probably still has a ton of pride from his playing days as a really great player. Andrew already discussed before how it is an assistant coach’s nature to be loose and forgiving with the players in order to keep their confidence up while dealing with a less sympathetic head coach, who can’t care about anyone’s feelings being hurt. AD has been in that role going all the way back to the Kiki days.

John Hollinger tweeted about an interesting exchange during game 4. He said that after a foul Dick Bavetta had gone over to the Nuggets bench, told the other assistants to shut up and declared “I’ll listen to him but not you” (referring to AD). That tells you right there why the Nuggets aren’t getting the benefit of the doubt in regards to whistles. Go check out johnhollinger on twitter if you want to read about it, but I thought it said a lot. AD is probably a very good assistant and while he never asked for this situation, he needs to do better. Just change something now. The path we are on is going nowhere

twitter.com/skitalicious

by runningdonut on Apr 27, 2010 5:38 PM MDT reply actions  

"Bavetta just told Denver assistants to zip it, including zipping gesture. Then pointed to Dantley and said I'll listen to him but not you."

but in all fairness the refs should just call it by the book rather than bend the rules cause someone else wants it that way. But this is the NBA after all so what am i saying

"I believe that basketball, when a certain level of unselfish team play is realized, can serve as a kind of metaphor for ultimate cooperation. It is a sport where success, as symbolized by the championship, requires that the dictates of the community prevail over selfish personal impulses. An exceptional player is simply one point on a five-pointed star. Statistics—such as points, rebounds, or assists per game—can never explain the remarkable interaction that takes place on a successful pro team."
~ Bill Bradley
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/bektur34 - denver nuggets videos

by Bek$ on Apr 27, 2010 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Bavetta is a hooks and buttons kinda guy

He predates zippers. I’m glad he’s aware of “modern” technology.

by Artimus Mangilord on Apr 28, 2010 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Proprietors
Andrew Feinstein
(denverstiffs@gmail.com)
Nate Timmons
(ntimmons73@yahoo.com)

STIFF LIST (as of 4/26 by Andrew Feinstein)

1. METTA WORLD PEACE

Metta resorted back to Ron Ron last Sunday by clubbing James Hardenwith an "inadvertent celebratory elbow", landing him a 7-game suspension. Apparently, changing his name didn't prevent NBA commissioner David Stern from overlooking Metta's past behavior problems.

2. CHARLOTTE BOBCATS

The 'Cats are on the verge of securing the worst winning percentage in NBA history. Given that the guy who runs the team - Michael Jordan - had previously drafted Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison, should this really be a shock?

3. OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER
The team that was supposedly built to overcome the lockout-shortened season managed to lose 7 of its last 14 games, ceding the Western Conference's 1-seed to the Spurs in the process. Their reward might be a first round matchup with defending champion Dallas.

4. BILLY HUNTER AND DEREK FISHER
With report after report coming out about NBPA union head Hunter's shady, nepotistic dealings and questions arising about Fisher's own role in dealing with NBA owners behind Hunter's back during the lockout, this off-the-court scandal could prove to be more exciting than the playoffs themselves!

5. STEVE NASH AND THE PHOENIX SUNS
The Suns are on this list for squandering the last few great seasons from Nash. Nash is on this list for his stupidly stubborn loyalty to a franchise as awful as the Suns.

DENVER STIFFS ON FACEBOOK

Enter your email for updates

Email:

Denver Stiffs on Twitter

DENVER STIFFS HALL OF FAME

2010 INDUCTION CLASS

F - Raef LaFrentz
F - Mark Pope
C - Priest Lauderdale
G - DerMarr Johnson
G - Darnell Mee
L.A. - Bernie Bickerstaff

2009 INDUCTION CLASS

F - Bill Hanzlik
F - Ryan Bowen
C - Danny Schayes
G - Julius Hodge
G - Junior Harrington

2008 INDUCTION CLASS

F - Nikoloz Tskitishvili
F - Joe Wolf
F - Tony Battie
C - Scott Hastings
G - Tariq Abdul-Wahad
G - Mark Macon


Proprietors

304196_2551840719324_1353064703_32974236_1387484886_n_small Nate Timmons

Dsc00033_small Andrew Feinstein

Writer

442_small Colin Neilson

Hipster_jeff_small Jeffrey Morton

Moderators

20120305_jla_ai1_007_extra_large_large_small CombatChuk

Sniper_kitty_small Army of Nugs

Karl_small Russscot