A toxic locker room looms...
by Andrew Feinstein on Oct 2, 2010 11:13 AM MDT
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
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PrintAs outlandish and ridiculous as Kenyon Martin's recent comments were regarding his contract situation, they could be an ominous sign of things to come for the 2010-11 Denver Nuggets.
When Kenyon Martin stupidly said "ain’t nobody in a hurry to give me [a contract extension], so I’m not going to be in a hurry to come back [from his latest knee surgery]" apparently he forgot that he's been on the receiving end of one of the worst contracts in professional basketball history. In fact, if you Google "worst contracts in NBA history" a number of links pop-up and the general consensus is that K-Mart's seven-year, $92.5 million contract signed in 2004 is the second worse in NBA history. Only Stephon Marbury's four-year, $76 million deal tops it.
Whenever discussing K-Mart, you have to separate the player from the contract. It's not K-Mart's fault that he received such a poisonous, franchise-killing contract. That would be former GM Kiki Vandeweghe and Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke's fault. Going back to 2004, when Vandeweghe squandered all the cap flexibility he had created and draft picks he had horded to land Martin, we must remember that it was Kroenke who wanted to make a big splash in the free agency market and Vandeweghe who was happy to oblige. That was also an era where real estate and stock prices couldn't go down, so who cared if you lost a few million on your NBA team?
After striking out with a number of free agent possibilities - including Manu Ginobili - in 2004, Martin was the only "big name" left available, having appeared in an all-star game and two NBA Finals as a member of the New Jersey Nets (even though K-Mart was embarrassed by Tim Duncan in the 2003 NBA Finals...an early indication that he'd struggle at power forward in the Western Conference). And thus, Vandeweghe moronically bid against himself and got fleeced by then-Nets president Rod Thorn and K-Mart's agent into handing over three future first round picks to the Nets and committing to a max contract for Martin. Thorn felt so bad about conning Vandeweghe into one of the worst deals in NBA history that he hired Vandeweghe as his underling after Kroenke fired Vandeweghe two years later. Ok, I made that last part up but it's certainly plausible.
K-Mart the player is a different story. Yet another power forward who has succumbed to the Nuggets power forward curse (which had previously befallen Calvin Natt, LaPhonso Ellis, Antonio McDyess and Nene), Martin has been unable to stay healthy throughout his entire tenure in Denver. But when healthy, Martin has been an invaluable member of the team in terms of toughness and defense. Had it not been for Martin's efforts on both ends of the floor last season while Carmelo Anthony was out with a sprained ankle, the Nuggets don't come anywhere near winning 50 games. In fact, K-Mart had played so gallantly of late that we almost forgot about his run-ins with head coach George Karl and his teammates during the 2006 post-season, his constant whining on the court that has led to numerous ill-timed technical fouls and his refusal to work on his jump shot (or even layups for that matter). K-Mart himself admitted to having had a rotten attitude prior to the 2008-09 season when his pre-season declaration to the team of a renewed effort and attitude set the tone for an amazing season that ended in the conference finals.
Most unfortunately, it looks as though K-Mart's rotten attitude has returned and his recent comments about his contract's pending expiration are a microcosm of all that's wrong with the NBA. The guaranteed contract is a franchise-stifling joke and the players who receive them, whether it be Martin, Latrell Sprewell or others who have made absurd comments in regards to the millions thrown their way, are comically out of touch with reality.
But while K-Mart might be the only Nugget stupid enough to say something publicly about his contract and how it has affected his rehabilitation from yet another knee surgery, don't think for a second that his teammates - and head coach - also due for contract extensions aren't thinking the along the same lines. Briefly touched on in my recent training camp preview and discussed at length yesterday by the Post's Dave Krieger, the Nuggets enter the 2010-11 season with all their key principles - Anthony, Karl, Chauncey Billups, Martin, Nene, Arron Afflalo and J.R. Smith - in some form of contract limbo.
Anthony, as has been discussed ad nauseum all summer long, is the only Nugget to have been offered a long-term extension from the organization. Karl is coaching on a one-year contract extension that expires at season's end. Billups has $14.2 million due to him in 2011-12, but it's a team option and only a third of it is guaranteed. Martin and Smith are unrestricted free agents at season's end. Nene - like Melo - has a player's option to re-up for 2011-12, but unlike Melo hasn't been offered an extension. And Afflalo will become a restricted free agent after this season.
So while the Nuggets (behind closed doors, of course) beg Anthony to sign that extension, his teammates and head coach are collectively wondering: "what about me?"
Whether they like it or not, Anthony's teammates' questions will go unanswered until Melo makes a decision or the Nuggets make a decision for him by trading him away. Simply put, it makes little sense to bring back a high maintenance, oft-injured 32 year old player like Martin if the Nuggets are going to rebuild with young, cheap, yearning-to-learn talent. Billups, having just turned 34 years old, is probably better off elsewhere in a post-Melo world, too. But given his Denver roots, any dealings with Billups' future must be handled with a different level of sensitivity and an eye towards keeping him involved with the organization for the long run. Karl, too, may not be the best fit for a rebuilding team. Karl once told me that he'll coach any team, anywhere (as long as it's in the NBA) - unlike Phil Jackson who has publicly said he wouldn't be a good fit for a rebuilding, young team. But would the Kroenkes want to pay Karl his $4 million-per-year "rate" for a team sans Melo?
All these open questions could lead to a toxic room environment that will threaten to undermine the entire 2010-11 season. When so many players are going to be asking "what about me?" how do you make it "all about we?" It will require the greatest of great efforts from Karl and his coaching staff to put this season together, and much will be asked of Billups as the team's voice of reason, as well.
If K-Mart's comments are any indication of where his mental state is at, perhaps the Nuggets are better off "Tim Thomas'ing" him - i.e. send him home (with pay, unfortunately) until he gets traded. I'd rather have a Stiff like Shelden Williams who wants to be here and will do anything for another contract than a guy like K-Mart who basically stole $90 million and thinks the Nuggets still owe him something.
For the millions of dollars we as fans bestow on these players and the Nuggets organization, we deserve a team that wants to be in Denver and, while here, play earnestly with a great effort in practice and on the court during games. Because at the end of the day, in this economy no one knows what the future holds for any of us. At the very least, it would be nice to have some good basketball to watch in the meantime.
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Good points though Melo or not why would the Nugs want KMart back
Maybe at a mid-level or lower amount. Face it he’s is no longer a starting caliber NBA player. His health prevents it. What is a fair going price for an over 30 role player off the bench? $4m/year maybe? Anything else and he’s overpaid at this point of his injury troubled career.
And if he’s in fantasyland about money he’ll earn going forward why would you want him at all? He’s proven ad nauseum that when he’s not happy he’s toxic in the locker room. And will he be happy with $4m/yr regardless of who offers it to him?
The Nugs Sybil-like split personalities regarding handling of players really needs to stop. Whether it is because of some kind of ugly envy towards Melo’s national presence, the FO & coach have been far harder on Melo than the others.
There is no CBA violation if the Nugs just man-up and say that KMart is not a part of their 2010-11 plans and they have no current intent on having him part of the active roster. He’ll still be paid in full and will have ample time to re-hab but he is not planned to be on the court this year. If that’s not acceptable then he can pursue a buy out of his final year.
Take the high road; but cut to the chase, cut the crap, fish or cut bait and then move on and leave’s KMart’s whine & cheese a distant memory down the road.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Like my old man used to say....
Shit or get off the pot!!
Quitters People United
Quitter #96
by The U.N. Fab Five on Oct 2, 2010 12:23 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Time to blow the team up
Whenever that’s reasonably possible that is. Next year I suppose. You know what I’m saying?
Melo won’t stay with the current shape of the roster. Nor would I blame him for leaving. The NBA has the most disparity out of any major sport, and that includes MLB…which has no cap.
"How do you know somebody is great? When you see how they respond to adversity. Anybody can man a ship when the waters are calm." - Jerry Angelo
True, I'm wondering if that really is the Stan Plan
I don’t think he really wanted to bring Karl back last year; only doing it for 1 year and to get that concern out of the way while Karl dealt with his illness.
Really since KMart’s signing the FO has not invested in the; it’s been mostly player for player swapping and shopping the bargain bins for players.
I can’t argue with the logic. I just don’t agree with it because the team was so close. And it truly has been 30 years since the team was as close as it was in 08-09. When the Nugs acquired AI I felt they had a 3year window to do whatever it took to win a title. They got an extension when they acquired Billup; I felt they had 3 years to do the full press towards winning a title before they’d have to re-build or re-load.
This year is the 3rd year, so they’re right on schedule. What the did, or didn’t do in between is the opportunity lost.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
not true
It’s well known that I’m no Karl fan, but it’s simply untrue to say they didn’t want to bring him back for more than one year. The team had a multiyear offer on the table when Karl got cancer. Karl came in and told the team about the cancer and that he wanted a one year deal due to the health issues.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Oct 2, 2010 1:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I had this gut feeling only days ago
that both Denver’s players and organization would step up their game for Melo, in the same way LA stepped up for Kobe when he took a very aggressive stance.
I reckon Melo won’t be traded until the deadline, so there’s some time for the org to solidify its status as title contender. If they can make that jump, I’d bet Melo signs an extension.
I hate to say it, mainly because I’m an outsider, but the team’s leaders aren’t the right type of leader. The leaders are vocal, but they do not speak with the same voice. At the same time, they set a bad example. And though I intended for these words to describe the players, it applies to management as well. What are these people doing? The team is disintegrating.
A franchise player is a team’s true leader and best role model. If Melo deserves that extension, have him prove it he’s franchise-caliber.
To that end, Kenyon Martin, JR Smith, and Al Harrington need to hit the bricks, because they’re not professionals but a bunch of selfish mercenaries. There are too many egos on this team. That goes for Billups, as well, and he needs to go too.
Tayshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton, Andy Varejao: surround Melo with these kinds of guys.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
I'll pass on Varejao
He’s kind of a little bitch, not to mention wildly overrated. He was just as worried about his contractual situation as K-Mart is now and made the Cavs grossly overpay him too. He’s much better off taking his Sideshow Bob act overseas where he gets all the attention he desires.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Oct 2, 2010 1:44 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he meant to respond to the same post you did
because ignign*kt called him out. So, ignign*kt, what is the issue with Al Harrington?
His tweets aren't up to par with the Swish?
DISCLAIMER: Fairly unintelligent, usually unknowledgeable, gullible fool speaking. My views do not necessarily represent those in charge of this blog or most of the known universe. Stride with caution
Quitter's People United member # 42
You are somewhat right
You’re right that Denver is in a similar situation as LA in when Kobe wanted out (I think 2007?) and they do have a chance to use this opportunity to improve the team… I think Kenyon is the only guy that really has to go… sure his defensive intensity is amazing, but his negatives (horrible attitude, almost no offensive game, injury prone and his bloated contract) all out-weigh his positives (defense intensity, potential leadership)… Denver should definitely not trade Melo b/c there is a big chance that they could really improve at the deadline and convince Melo to stay
+1000
KMart is the weak link. Trade him for a solid defensive big, and we are back in the picture. Especially if JR, AAA, and Nene are playing well then we will be in good shape. According to Karl JR is having the best training camp of his time in Denver. Lets see how long that lasts. I am still hopeful on the 25 yr old, I still think the one last chance is what he needs. I also like that he is on a short leash. That way AAA can get more playing time and JR will have to rethink about what he is doing or all his minutes are going to AAA.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
According to Karl JR is having the best training camp of his time in Denver.
Go figure, it’s a contract year.
by Artimus Mangilord on Oct 4, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
trade him for a solid defensive big,
Of course that’s the goal. But which solid, defensive big is a team willing to move? For cap relief.
I guarantee you, every gm in the league knows that Kmart has ALWAYS been on the trade block. Now it’s finally his contract year, and he has some value as an expiring.
The thing is, you have to find someone who needs cap relief, and has a massive contract (within 20% or so) they want to send back. Or three contracts.
Next you have to find which cap strapped teams might actually want Kenyon. When healthy and focused, he remains an asset. His value seems to go down every time he opens his mouth though, and I wish he would recognize that simple fact.
So, which teams need cap relief? And which ones want Kmart more than all the other available expirings? There are LOTS of options out there for expirings. If he’s talking extension, he may not even show up for whoever he gets traded to. At least Eddy Curry and AK47 have the good sense to shut the hell up and be overpaid for one more year.
by Uwe Blog on Oct 4, 2010 6:20 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Commercial
Nuggets advertisement for 10 game fan plans showed Chauncey, and only Chauncey, in the commercial – no Melo. That tells me they aren’t planning for him to be around too much longer.
they've got him on the radio promos for season tix
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 2, 2010 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
and all over the e-mail ads they send out
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
The lockerroom situation could get toxic
but I don’t see that happening. We’ve had one hell of a motley crew here for years now. We’ve been in fights, been convicted of DUIs, cursed at fans and been suspended on numerous occasions. The last thing I see happening is contractual struggles sepparating the team.
Feinstein brings up the main point that should be the thesis for this chaotic season: Everything depends on Melo. What I feel is best is to try and walk the line of pretending Melo’s going to be back, without totally crossing it. Even if Melo comes back K-Mart and JR don’t need to. Offer Nene, Chauncey and Karl all contracts and hope they sign. Then come Feb. if Melo signs, great, and if not trade him for Favors and picks so that at least next year we’ll have a solid team, and money to go after blue-collar guys like David West and Marc Gasol.
Stiff 4 Life
I blame that all on Ruben Patterson! WHO DOESN"T?!? that guy is pure kryptonite!
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
If I'm not mistaken he either signs before the season starts
Or becomes a free agent in July
So signing and trading him in feb is not a possibility.
And I don’t think the Nets want a trade with an unextended Melo. (I sure hope the Bulls wouldn’t… Not that I really want Melo, anyway…)
So either he is signed and traded now or he’ll walk as a free agent. Or traded during the season unextended (not likely IMO) or SnT after the season in which case you never know what you’re gonna get. A nice reference is what the Cavs and Raptors got for their stars. The Nugs are unrealistic in their expectations of return in a trade for Melo, imo.
?
am I reading this correctly? You are saying that he can only sign the extension before or after the season, but not during? So he cannot sign the extension near the trade deadline?
forgive my ignorance.
brain empty… crave knowledge…
I think you are reading correctly
But I think Bab-bass’s post is wrong and he can sign any time. I also dont think that anything like BYC exists for 8th year players.
Not very clear BAB
but I think he/she means that why would Melo allow the Nuggets to trade him in February to another team and sign an extension with this other team? If you were Melo, would you sign with let’s say the Nets after a trade where they lost key resources or just wait a couple months and sign with them in the off season when all they will have to give up is a low pick? If Denver waits until Feb., I think Melo becomes much less valuable, his value is contingent on his wanting to sign an extension with the target team, in February, I don’t see that being true. Of course, it appears that options are very limited now as he wouldn’t agree to the NJ extension either. Unless New York comes through with a trade that appeals to Melo and Denver, it seems like Melo is leaning towards taking the hit on salary to be in control of where he goes and to eliminate that team from gutting itself before he gets there. Why go to another team that has gutted itself if you are wanting to win?
If you were a man I would punch you, right in the mouth.
good write up Andrew
I think it’s important to show Melo that he could have a good future hear… but the way to prove that would be to extend Chauncey (on a cheaper deal), Afflalo, maybe JR and Nene… but what would be better is if we were to trade Kenyon for someone who will actually play… but I think it’s kind of funny how much the media hates on Denver… when a team like NY or Miami has no one on their pay roll for next year they call it savy for the free agency period, but if Denver does it then it’s “uncertantity”
I’ll admit, I think it’s a risk trying to improve through free agency, but in Denver’s case, if they go into free agency with Melo, AAA (extended or at least restricted), Lawson, Harrington and Birdman (both maybe dumped to clear more space), then Denver becomes an attractive destination that can offer some good money… Now Denver isn’t gonna get a LeBron and Bosh combo… but we can get a good young big like Horford or Gasol… then Denver becomes a team with a great young core that can also compete now…but the other way to approach it is to use the expiring contracts to get players this year and guarantee they’ll be on the team… it’s much less risky, but also less rewarding…
We cant extend chauncey without taking his option.
It would be best to wait, decline his option and resign him for less than 8 million. Everyone is happy, chauncey gets 4mil for the option and there is more room for other players to come aboard.
Ummm...
I’m confused. Is KMart invaluable or not worth the “ridiculous contract”?
One thing is for sure: once Kmart is either traded or leaves or retires at least we won’t have to keep reading about Andrews disdain about the “second worst contract EVER in the history of the NBA”….
although, one could make several arguments about other players who should never have been paid a dollar to play basketball…
I think I get Kmart.
He thinks he was worth the money (he wasn’t…I mean a 12 and 9 guy? How much do those cost? Max contract and three firsts?!? NO!! He doesn’t see it that way..he sees himself as an energy guy and a leader. Ignoring injuries of course). He is emotionally attached to the Nuggs. He inherently likes being here and playing with these guys and in emotionally invested in the team, so he wants a contract and feels like the organization is saying they are done with him (they probably would love him to stay if he could prove healthy and take a contract that was appropriate for what he brings to the court…like 5mil a year? decreasing annually for 3 years max? that sound like Kmart value?)(But the value of a huge expiring for the organization totally outweighs everything he offers….so I think he knows its business but he is reacting to his feelings without forethought). Like a girlfriend that is expecting a proposal …."Oh you don’t think we need to declare it to the world Well I guess you are just afraid of commitment. That has always been your problem! Ok if you wanna play it slow, I can play it slow, no sex for you!"
So he doesn’t hate the Nugs, he want’s to stay, he is just reacting and not thinking. And he is reacting like he really really wants to be here, so I can get behind that! But what the hell…all this is assumption by me. He could be weird!
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
I'm with you on this
But Andy is right… he’s disgustingly out of touch with reality. I wouldn’t characterize it as Andy has in that he “stole” 96M from us, but he is right in that he should not be forgetting how wealthy he became at this organizations behest.
KMart is now eating his words
Just read from the nuggets twitter. Good read? Or load of crap?
K-Mart sets record straight on knee, contract extension. http://bit.ly/cOBj1k
Good read
Allows for K-Mart to defend himself and his comments, which is what every good reporter should do. Still doesn’t justify him openly questioning why Al got a contract.
To K-Mart: Al got a freakin’ contract because he was a free agent in the NBA market. What the hell do you expect the Nuggets to do, wait around til you’re ready to come back months from now? I guess the Nuggets should just start four people everytime they step on the floor when you’re not available huh?
The other thing I have a problem with is K-Mart admitting he waited six extra weeks to get surgery just to make sure his “mind was around it.” What exactly do you have to put your mind around? You’ve already had two microfracture surgeries, what’s the worse than can happen? K-Mart even said it himself, “I play basketball for a living.” Exactly, Kenyon, exactly. Now next time this happens, get your ass in that operating room and fix whatever you need fixed so that come October you’re ready to play and not frolicking with your floaties in the swimming pool bitching about your conract situation.
Stiff 4 Life
I think Dempsey got into a little bit of trouble over that article
because he posted a correction on the DP blog….not in the paper mind you…but on the blog.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 2, 2010 8:57 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's Dempsey's "addendum"
http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/2010/10/02/kenyon-martin-addendum/
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 2, 2010 9:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Here's some quotes out of the link posted above by Caseyboo
(Thanks for posting that Caseyboo)
"The question was stated as, ‘Since this is the last year of your contract, do you feel the need to rush back?’ That was the question," Martin said. "And I said, ‘No, I’m not going to rush back. Nobody’s in a hurry to give me a contract, so why would I rush back?’ I said that, but I didn’t say that if I had a contract, I’d be playing right now. I didn’t say that at all.
"This came out of left field. Everybody else wrote what I had to say. I’ve never had a problem saying what I feel and standing by it. I’m like a proud father. If I make a statement, I’m going to stand by it. When I say something, it’s like my child. I’m going to stand by it."
He also said at the beginning of the article:
"It is physically impossible right now for me to play basketball," Martin said Saturday. "If they brought $20 million cash here and put it in my locker, I couldn’t do nothing with it. I would have to give it back because I physically can’t go right now. It’s impossible."
I strongly believe that the question was posed in the context of asking him if he felt like he needed to get back onto the court to prove he was still able to play and thus worthy of another (and likely his final) NBA contract. The connection to the injury and the extension is in that context – that he wasn’t looking to come rush out onto the court in the final year of his contract because he wasn’t in the process of doing an extension or anything that would require proof that he can still play.
I think, now seeing everything thus far, that this is WAAAAY blown out of proportion.
I think anymore Rasard Lewis has the most toxic contract
2009/10: $18.876 million, 14.1PPG & 4.4RPG
2010/11: $20.514 million,
2011/12: $22.125 million,
2012/13: $23.79 million
Holy shit, that is atrocious.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Oct 3, 2010 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions
that can't be all guaranteed? They should cut him ASAP
#26 - Quitters Unite!!!
It was on company property, with company property. So, double jeopardy, we're fine.
He's not that far off
There may be incentives and goals that a player has to achieve to reach full value of a contract. Games played or minutes played or points scored or rebounds. It can pretty much be anything.
Or a a year of a contract may only be guaranteed for a certain amount. (See Billups contract where his last year is only 1/3 guaranteed which is mentioned in this same post)
Holy...
Well Rashard is a matchup problem with the way he can shoot it, and he’s a bit of a 2 way player since he doesn’t completely suck at defense either. He’s also incredibly reliable having played at least 70 games every season for 10 years.
Still. That’s a bad contract. Damn
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
That was a terrible contract the moment it was even proposed
Absolutely ludicrous
where is jr smith AND a huge bag of popcorn when you really need him?
toxic locker room? no kidding. this is nothing new. nuggets have been there and done that. melo accused ALL of his teammates and coaches of being quitters THREE seasons ago.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
And he was right three years ago.
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over, or Tulo stabs homeplate with the shards of a broken season.
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Ace III called it last year when MELO quit
and caught Shit for having the cojunies to say it.
Cool story, bro. And FLAT OUT WRONG
2010 Colorado Zombies--It ain't over til it's over, or Tulo stabs homeplate with the shards of a broken season.
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.Good luck with the Rays!
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
You're not my Sister
You remind me of the guy who named his horse “My wife is always right”
Melo quit. He didn’t get injured
In fact it was just like that punch Cassius Clay
knocked out Sonny Liston with.
Jr deserves an apology
He was convicted and lynched and sent to #1on the Stiffs list. Nothing became of the second investigation and I read somewhere that the charges were dropped unless some new facts were presented.
He was “Unfairly DERIDED” in that episode and no one came to say “My Bad”. The power of the Press. Tried, Convicted and Hung.
JR is like T-Rex
All physical ability, brain the size of a pea.
Oh, and I apologize for saying that.
Did you to the Dinosaur Museum and get your Paleontology degree?
Physical ability and taking money to the bank. You proved my point.
Yes, I am a paleontologist
I think I have found proof of the Nuggets winning the championship going extinct.
I think I will name you grouchasoreus.
Dismissed
Phoof!
I can see that your brain is no larger than what you say Jr’s is.
Jr should be issued an apology.
OJ should be issued an apology.
Ben Roethlisberger should be issued an apology.
just kidding.
I don’t know what really went down, so I try to withhold judgement either way, but this also means that I don’t really have much ground to crusade in his defense in the matter, either.
I personally did a lot of stupid things when I was younger, and got into a lot of trouble in my life. I know that I deserved every bit of chastising I received, even when things weren’t completely my fault, because let’s face it, I had a track record of making stupid decisions. I certainly don’t think that anybody owed me an apology for calling me out for continuously getting myself into bad situations. Whether they were directly my fault or not, they were indirectly my fault, for certain.
JR still has a lot to prove as far as his maturity and decision making go (on AND off the court), and just because the investigation was dropped does not imply to me that JR is owed an apology from anybody who chastised him for constantly getting himself into stupid situations. You know who will never ever even be accused of choking someone in a workout? 98% percent of NBA players.
I support JR, because I think he can turn himself around, but he absolutely deserves his bad reputation.
On a side note, the TRex’s brain is larger than most dinosaurs, and larger than the human brain, but the part of the brain responsible for thinking is a smaller percentage in the T-Rex than it is in humans, or even other dinosaurs. NOTE: the T-Rex’s arms are not useful at all for choking someone.
Democracy says
that you are innocent until proven guilty. He wasn’t charged in the judicial system. But hung out to dry on the Stiffs list. Something is very wrong here.
what does the judicial system have to do with truth?
or what does being “innocent” have to do with not being a headache?
If you have two sons, one who never gets into trouble, and one who is constantly defending himself in court but somehow has always been acquitted of the charges. Do you still see them as being equally innocent because the judicial system say they are? If so, what is it going to take for you to finally say, “You have to stop getting yourself into these situations, son…”?
Sure, kids get into fights, but I think the point was that it’s like the umpteenth time he’s had bad press. How can you fault anyone for being sick of it?
As I was saying, I support JR as a fan. I think he can mature as a player and as a human, and I also hope he has a great contract year this year, but I can totally understand if anyone is sick of his off-court bullshit.
Son #2 gets into trouble again and you’re saying everyone owes HIM an apology just because he was acquitted? “Innocent until proven guilty” is how the judicial system is supposed to work, but I think the truth feels more like Schrodinger’s cat: you’re both innocent AND guilty, until you’re proven innocent OR guilty. If you keep on putting your cat back in the box, you’re only tempting fate, and the ASPCA is gonna be like, “what the hell are you doing, you idiot?”
Deez Nuggets
The umpteenth time that he’s had bad press?
The press is as bigoted and biased as all out doors.
That’s my point , the power of the media and how they have the ability to influence people
Deez don’t believe everything you read, and only half of what you see and hear.
I agree with you that the media is powerful
and everything you read should be taken with a grain of salt. But I also believe that if you don’t do anything to deserve bad press, you probably won’t get any, and you certainly won’t get bad press multiple times. You see, it is regardless of whether the person is guilty.
I have high hopes for JR, as a player and a person, so you should know that I personally, have not been very affected by the media in this instance.
The point I have stated, is pretty simple:
Being sick of JR’s off-court problems, whether they are completely his fault or not, is totally understandable, and for this reason, I don’t believe anyone owes JR an apology.
Being acquitted of guilt is not a step in the right direction. A step in the right direction would be not drawing the accusation in the first place.
Looks like Noah signed his extension with Chicago
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5646081
They were a long shot for a trade partner anyway. I hope Melo takes this as a sign that he should just stay in Denver. Chicago doesn’t have the cap room to sign him anyway.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
That was expected
Chicago would have been stupid to trade the guy, even for Anthony.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
BTSC proud ENFORCER!!
"No one on this team is Troy Polamalu. When God made him, he touched him a couple of extra times." -Safety Ryan Clark-
giving kmart a contract extension is the greatest idea since................
getting a tattoo of giant red lips on your neck. how is that working for you kmart? think about it bro.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
Interesting quote from Melo....very telling
As far as marketing, it comes from winning. If I ain’t winning, then nobody wants me to market their product.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
lets try this again...(sorry about the quote fail)
As far as marketing, it comes from winning. If I ain’t winning, then nobody wants me to market their product.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 4, 2010 1:18 AM MDT up reply actions
geh.....stupid Post webiste
As far as marketing, it comes from winning. If I ain’t winning, then nobody wants me to market their product.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 4, 2010 1:21 AM MDT up reply actions
I'll just post it in a fanshot. GRRRRRR!!
sorry about this. lol
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
by Jeffrey Morton on Oct 4, 2010 1:22 AM MDT up reply actions
Makes Absolutely No Sense
On Melo’s part…….the Knicks, if we actually traded him to them, would be horrible – they would only have Melo and Amare – Gallinari (sp?), Anthony Thompson, Toney, and the guy they would trade to get us a 1st Round pick (can’t remember his name right now) would all be gone. Does Melo really think he would win in NY with THAT team???
I personally hope we don’t trade him (if he won’t stay in Denver) to NY because that rumor that they were doing some underhanded business behind the Nuggets back, I’m sure its true – where there’s smoke there’s fire. Chicago is the only team that Melo prefers to go to (unless Houston is back in the mix) where he would win right off.
Might be a good time to blow up the team, tactically speaking
I mean, what if a hard cap really happens, effective for the 2011-12 season? That means free agency will blossom as teams maneuver to cut salary.
Player pay will go down too, so why not position the Nuggs to slurp up top players at bargain counter prices? Let ’em all walk, especially if they care more about whining than winning.
Actually, that’s very risky, and I don’t like the feel of it anyway. Maybe I’m just a fraidy cat.
Actually, your point makes sense slader
Keep Ty, AAA and renegotiate Chauncey’s contract (He at least wants to play and retire here) but other than that – as was reported on some sites, make the rest of the team available for trade or, if you can’t trade em, let their contracts expire. Honestly, what are our realistic (not Nuggets fans hopeful feelings) chances of winning an NBA title this year – with or without Melo? Slim at best.
Fraidy cat? lol! I haven’t heard that phrase for a long time!
If you believe the Nuggets have a slim chance with or without Melo
What’s the point of keeping him and letting him expire? If we’re going to have to rebuild, I would assume everybody would want to as quickly as possible. You’re certainly better off accumulating whatever assets you can now without hurting future financial flexibility.
I’ve said it before but I’m absolutely in the camp that we should hold a fire sale. Everything must go not named Ty Lawson and Nene (if he’s willing to sign an extension now worth about 3/$30M, 4/$36M). I think the odds are very high we’re going to have to anyways after this year, why not get a head start? Anthony should net some us multiple pieces. Billups should get us another piece or two. Between, JR, Kenyon and AAA we should get another couple of pieces. I’d much rather go into next year with 3-4 youngsters on rookie scale contracts and multiple draft picks then simply letting everyone expire and sitting on a pile of money we probably can’t spend on anyone worth spending.
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