J.R.'s nine lives may be up...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jan 24, 2010 7:18 PM MST
in News and Opinion
134 comments
The words most commonly used in regards to Nuggets backup shooting guard J.R. Smith are "mercurial," "inconsistent," "poor work ethic," "childish," "bad attitude," "erratic" and "unfocused." I've got a new one to throw into the mix. How about "traded"?
I think I've used this analogy before, so pardon me if you're reading it again. Growing up, I had a friend named "Steve" (we'll give him the fictitious name of "Steve" for the purposes of this analogy) who was far and away considered the brightest and most universally talented kid among us in elementary school. Teachers, parents and fellow students branded "Steve" as having "unlimited potential" but just "couldn't put it together." "Steve" could get B's in his sleep, but would be an A+ student and on his way to Harvard had he just "applied himself." This was fine while we were in elementary school...maybe even into middle school and high school...but at some point "Steve", five colleges and an uncountable number of jobs later, became an adult. He never experienced any level of success whatsoever (monetarily or otherwise) and yet is still branded by my peers from that era as being "bright", "talented" and, you guessed it, having "lots of potential." Others cite his inability to live up that potential and brand him as a "loser" or a "failure." I've never felt that way. I instead take a different tack and wonder: maybe he wasn't that talented in the first place.
To me, you could replace "Steve" with "J.R. Smith" and tell the same story. Possessed with ungodly good raw basketball skills, I'm here to tell you that maybe J.R. Smith isn't that talented in the first place. You see, part of being talented isn't just how high you jump, how sweet your jumper looks or how thunderously you dunk, but it's how you think, behave and comport yourself as an adult, a teammate, a professional. Six years into his NBA career, I fear that not only isn't J.R. Smith a professional, but that he's heading down the same path that other "talented" non-professionals went down before him, such as Latrell Sprewell, Isaiah "J.R." Rider and Darius Miles.
Nuggets fans are abuzz today with the news - courtesy of the Post's Benjamin Hochman - that Smith may get suspended for behavior detrimental to the team. The latest incident being Smith's alleged "pouting" on the Nuggets bench as his teammates eeked out a tough home victory over the Hornets last night (the Hornets were on the second of a back-to-back and missing their second-best player, but a win is a win!), but according to HoopsWorld's Travis Heath, this has been "simmering" for a while.
I've been tough on Smith all season and deservedly so. In fact, I named Smith as our "First Half Stiff" based on his erratic and often poor play for the first 41 games of the season. Over the last 14 games alone, Smith has only shot north of 50% from the field once and worse than that, he hasn't even been close. And en route to six consecutive Nuggets wins and nine victories out of 11 games, Smith's "contribution" has been all over the map. Check out these ghastly shooting numbers from J.R. (FGs and three-pointers) during the Nuggets sudden hot streak: 7-19 (1-8), 4-12 (0-4), 8-20 (1-4), 3-10 (1-3), 8-21 (2-8), 5-12 (2-8), 6-9 (3-4), 4-12 (2-6), 6-15 (2-6), 1-7 (0-3), 1-5 (1-5...all three's).
I was one of the first to admonish Nuggets head coach George Karl for (wrongly) throwing Smith under the bus during the playoff loss to the Spurs in 2007 and compared Karl's treatment of Smith last season to how the United States has meaningless "low level" talks with North Korea on nuclear disarmament. But those episodes have faded into the distant past by now, and when I asked Karl about Smith back in November, Karl not only said they were "good" but that they recently had had a heart-to-heart conversation about Smith's time in jail over the summer. At the time, it seemed as though Karl and Smith were bonded as never before. Even now, Karl won't throw Smith under the bus, saying about the possible suspension: "We want J.R. to get back to playing at a consistent high level, which he's talented enough to do, so when that doesn't happen, I don't blame J.R. — I blame myself, I blame my staff. But in the same process, you've got to figure out how to win games."
And yet while Karl and Smith's teammates rack up wins for the Nuggets, Smith pouts, misses ill-advised shots and plays (and I'm being kind here) careless defense. I have to imagine if I asked Karl the same question today, I'd get a very different answer.
As cited by Nate in his recent FanShot, Heath does a great job breaking down the current J.R. situation from a macro perspective. According to Heath, the Nuggets organization is a house divided on what to do about the enigmatic shooting guard. But I have an even longer memory than Heath does in his latest column. I remember Smith allegedly ripping a girl's dress and spitting on her outside a Denver night club. I remember Smith "co-hosting" the 2007 New Year's Bash party that led to former Bronco Darrent Williams' death hours later. I remember Smith accidentally getting his best friend killed in that tragic car accident in New Jersey that landed Smith in jail this past summer. I remember Smith taking the bait from the Knicks' Nate Robinson that exacerbated the Madison Square Garden Melee. I remember Smith having to take down his Twitter account for allegedly posting gang-related language. I remember Smith posting a real-time web video (that mysteriously got yanked from the internet almost as fast as it went up!) while being in Eddy Curry's passenger seat during an "early morning" arrest. Need I go on?
So if the Nuggets are serious about winning a championship, perhaps it's time they rid themselves of any and all enigmas, regardless of how "talented" they may be.
Denver Stiffs readers have been tossing out Smith trade scenarios for over a month now, and I've stayed out of it hoping J.R. would turn things around. But it's clear that the Nuggets need to explore some deals. Most think the Nuggets should move J.R. and bring back a big man, but that would take away a chunk of offense out of a bench that's already depleted offensively. Therefore, I'm not sold on Smith being shipped out solely for a big man but instead, perhaps the Nuggets could package Smith for another shooter and score a big man at the same time. Here are some trade scenarios the Nuggets might want to consider, factoring in NBA trade salary requirements...
J.R. Smith to the Warriors for Anthony Morrow and Ronny Turiaf
I've looked into a number of ways for the Nuggets to pry Morrow out of Golden State, and given that Warriors head coach Don Nelson has never made a head case he doesn't like, Smith could be great in Oakland. Morrow is a head case, too, but not to the extent Smith is and he's been wrongly banished to Nellie's dog house. When given playing time, Morrow produces...and then some. Turiaf would be a throw-in for salary purposes but could give the Nuggets some big man insurance off the bench. I'd much rather see the Nuggets get Anthony Randolph or even Brandan Wright back, but I can't imagine Golden State parting with Randolph yet. And it should be noted that the Nuggets would be taking a big gamble here that Morrow would be as good, forget better, than Smith.
J.R. Smith and Renaldo Balkman to the Magic for J.J. Redick and Brandon Bass
Since Smith and Balkman are alleged to be good friends off the court (and both are in Karl's doghouse), why not trade them together? The Magic are clearly having buyer's remorse when it comes to Bass and Redick is expendable from Orlando's end. The Nuggets have never had a consistent three-point specialist who can spread the floor for Carmelo Anthony, Kenyon Martin and Nene to work inside and Redick just might be the guy who could do that.
J.R. Smith, Malik Allen and trade exception money to the Wizards for Mike Miller
Wanting to rehab their severely damaged image in the wake of the Gilbert Arenas fiasco, I can't imagine the Wizards wanting to take on Smith. That said, Miller - even at the risk of him being an unrestricted free agent - would be a great fit for the Nuggets and could push them into the NBA Finals if he could stay healthy.
J.R. Smith and Renaldo Balkman to the Kings for Francisco Garcia and Spencer Hawes
I'd rather see Jason Thompson come back to the Nuggets in a deal for Smith, but there's no way the Kings will part with Tyreke Evans, Thompson or Omri Casspi. Everyone else is expendable. And with Kevin Martin being too rich for the Nuggets' - and every other NBA team's - blood, Garcia becomes the next obtainable player out of Sactown. The problem with this deal is that Garcia is out with a wrist injury and may not return this season.
I'm sure this site's readers have even more creative options for a possible Smith deal than I do. But as you can see, as hard as it is dealing with J.R. Smith on your team, it might be even harder to find a fair deal for him.
I hate to kick a man while he's down, but it might be time for J.R. to be kicked out of Denver. His nine lives are up.
Photo courtesy of AP Photos: David Zalubowski
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I couldn’t come up with much for J.R. So many teams won’t touch him!
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Jan 24, 2010 7:30 PM MST up reply actions
Can't combine trade exemptions with players . .
Not ready to throw in the towel on JR, but if they do, I like your first two proposals:
Turiaf would perfect big man for the Nugs, can’t shoot from the outside, semi-injury prone and defensive, hustler . . once he get some tats, he would fit right in.
I wanted Bass in offseason, and he can’t get in the rotation on Orlando. Reddick as a homeless man’s JR .w/p the ‘tude. Only problem is we wouldn’t have anyone to match up for big two gaurds when AA get his three quick fouls. How about JR and Balkman for Peitrus and Bass?
You can't trade player exceptions, but you can use them (big difference).
Teams can use the trade exception money to absorb players, that’s why they are there.
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Jan 25, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
Only if the traded player fits under the exemption.
You can’t add JR and a salary exemption to take back a 9M player. You could take back a 3.5M player for nothing and trade JR for a 7M player.
For example we could trade
Smith, Allen and Carter for Prince and
Take back Wilcox with our exemption
This would save Detroit about 4M off next years cap and 2M (x2 for tax purposes) off of this year’s cap. It would be a gamble for us to take a injured Prince, would cost us more money this year and next but would give us a servicable big man, and defender / outside shooter.
by Frontrange on Jan 25, 2010 2:14 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
IF the pistons agree to this
Then this is a deal Stan can’t pass up.
by InboundingLobPass on Jan 25, 2010 5:40 PM MST up reply actions
i hope
This doesn’t come true. JR like my brother have the same mentality and are very childish. It took my brother a while to figure stuff out and I’m sure JR is close to being there. You have to hit rock bottom sometimes before you wake up….
Agree, but...
What exactly is rock bottom for JR? You would have figured it would have been the jail time he spent this past summer. Sometimes rock bottom is so bad for some people that when reached it’s impossible to recover from. I hope this isn’t the case with JR, but he isn’t giving anyone any reason to believe otherwise.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:10 AM MST up reply actions
Perhaps he's already hit rock bottom...
I would hardly compare sulking about playing time to spending time in jail.
eventhough i dont wanna trade JR, these are some options i guess (copied from my other post)
i think other teams are going to start making offers for him i could see us being offered things like
cuz i think almost every team will want to take a chance on him,
from Boston: Big Baby Davis, Eddie House and a first (late) for JR
from Chicago: Salmons or Tyrus Thomas for JR
from Miami: Haslem and Cook (or pick) for JR and Graham
from LA Clips: Al Thorton or Butler and Deandre Jordan for JR and Petro
from Memphis: Thabeet and bad contract for JR and a pick
from NY: Jefferies and Lee for JR
from NEw Jersey: Yi and Dooling for JR
from Cleveland: JJ Hickson and Boobie Gibson for JR
personally i dont really want to trade JR adn would accept a trade that knocks our socks off completely
I thought about Hickson/Boobie...
But I can’t imagine Cleveland disrupting their chemistry to acquire J.R. I think I’d take Salmons, too…
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Jan 24, 2010 7:31 PM MST up reply actions
I would do
JR and 1 of Petro/Allen/Graham for John Salmons and Aaron Grey
by runningdonut on Jan 24, 2010 8:19 PM MST up reply actions
hey feinstein
does your fictitious named friend steve have the fictitious last name of urkel? just wondering.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Many of these trades do not work
simply for salary.
Boston-works
Chicagp-Thomas works, Salmons does not
Miami-does not work
LAC- only works if you use all three players
Mem-works with the right combination of contracts
Ny-does not work
NJ-works
Cle-works
So throwing out one of the chicago options, the clippers option because no way we get that kind of return for jr and the NY trade, we are left with a few options, but do they make sense? Tyrus Thomas for JR? it is a decent trade. Bulls desperately need more 3 pt shooting and wing scoring
Memphis-I’ve said this before, I don’t see them giving up on the #2 overall pick in his rookie year
NJ- I’ve heard they are very intent on keeping Yi, but I love this trade from our perspective, plus when its almost the deadline and you’ve only won three games, I don’t think anyone should be considered untouchable.
Cle- another great trade from the nuggets side, Cleveland though isn’t getting much in return
I would take tyrus thomas if they also gave us a pick in the draft
he’s a pretty versatile forward and i think with a fresh start could still turn into a factor
recent history
melo was suspended last season. before last season denver was thinking of trading him. melo was the one who threw the sucker punch during the knicks game and was suspended for more games then smith. where transgressions are concerned smith is not any worse then melo.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
OH SNAP
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
I still don’t have any problems with what Melo did in that knicks melee. there were 4 knicks guys surrounding JR and no one else was coming to his aid. this, coupled with the fact that other plays have only been suspended a game or 2 for throwing a punch, makes it hard for me to hate what melo did but rather point out Stern’s overall problem with Carmelo and the Nuggets
I don't have a problem with coming to JR's aid
But throwing a sucker-punch like that was just cowardly. If your gonna stand up for your teamate, pull a Stephen Jackson and follow your man even if it takes marching into the stands and fighting off fan after fan, but don’t just throw one punch and run off. That’s weak sh*t.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
+1
That made Melo kinda look like a bitch. Dont run off!
by GottaLoveMelo on Jan 27, 2010 7:24 AM MST up reply actions
where talent is concerned smith is not any better then melo.
by Artimus Mangilord on Jan 25, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
that is part of the problem
there are certain things in life where a double standard should never apply. very good point though that is the reality. melo started the last game 0 for 5 from the field . he got to stay on the court and shoot his way out of it. smith was 1 for 5 and was benched. a stupid shot is a stupid shot. the starters with talent get away with it like melo, chauncey and kmart.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
We won't get good value
The only criteria I have for a JR trade is getting back a contributor with a value contract that runs at least through next season – due to our salary cap woes. I just cannot find a reasonable deal that seems sensible for both sides. I like Redick and Bass for Smith and Balkman. That could work out for both sides.
I just don’t see any teams falling all over themselves to trade for JR Smith. He’s having a bad year and his checkered past speaks for itself. There will be plenty of teams trying to pry JR out of the clearance bin, but no one willing to pay a premium. He is just not worth it.
by runningdonut on Jan 24, 2010 7:49 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
This is what I think
And why I think Denver might just have to ride this out.
If a good trade comes about, by all mean, go for it. But unless Denver can get fair value, I don’t expect to see JR go anywhere but the bench for a bit.
The more I read the more I fear that the issues with Smith are bigger than just a shooting slump.
gulp
Am I doomed to hell for all my rock 'n' roll?
How about this
IF JR melts down again before the deadline then deal him for an expiring contract and a first round pick (lottery pick if we can get one). If he makes it to the end of the season but doesn’t improve while Lawson and AA continue to emerge, then we make a trade in the offseason. Preferably JR to a team with cap room for a lottery pick in the draft, maybe a top 10 pick if we can get one.
perhaps
Indiana – JR and Malik Allen for Jeff Foster and Brandon Rush ?
Dallas – JR and Malik Allen for Matt Carrol and Drew Gooden ?
Philly – JR and Malik Allen for Jason Kapono and Jason Smith ?
Phoenix – JR and Balkman for Robin Lopez and Leandro Barbosa ?
I haven’t thought too much about if those other teams would pull the pin on those deals but they all work out according to RealGM TradeChecker ? lol
Sure we lose offense if rid of JR.. but really.. how often do we actually see JR’s ‘offense’ come out and play. I’ll take solid consistency over sporadic spectaculars right now. Especially if it means we get a big man.
I don't think Dallas would trade to another WC contender, and Barbosa is out for a while
Kapono and Smith are benchwarmers for a crappy Sixers team, and I’m not sure if they’d get any PT here
My suggestion:
Your Indiana trade was right on, except add Josh McRoberts and Johan Petro into the mix. McRoberts is a high-energy, white, 6’10" hustle guy off the bench…remind you of anyone?
Rush is like J.R. in his dramatic difference between his “on game” and his “off game”, but without any of the complaining. Pacers would do this because one can only watch an injury prone Mike Dunleavy and Dahntay Jones chuck up 20 shots a game. J.R. gives them a second scorer besides Granger, and since Granger takes like 8 threes a game, I’m sure Pacer fans wouldn’t go absolutely crazy over J.R. taking 5-6 of Dunleavy’s 3-pointers per game.
So in other words…
Nuggets get:
6’10", 240 lbs. Josh McRoberts
6’6", 210 lbs. Brandon Rush
6’11", 250 lbs. Jeff Foster
Pacers get:
6’6", 220 lbs. JR Smith
7’0", 247 lbs. Johan Petro
6’10", 255 lbs. Malik Allen
Pacers might not want to do this as they lose some talent, but they save around $4 million next year.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"If the NBA were on channel 5 and a bunch of frogs making love were on channel 4, I'd watch the frogs, even if they were coming in fuzzy." - Bobby Knight
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
Yes to Barbosa and Lopez
Lopez has been playing very well for the Suns of late. I also think we should see who the suns get back for Stoudemire – word is they’ll be trading him. if we could somehow come away with tyrus thomas and barbosa this would be very good.
That would be my dream
Suns are my second fav team and I love Stoude. I just dont see PHX distrupting the chemistry they have, especially with Amare and Nash.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
I remember reading that JR said that he would love to have the shots per game that Monta has
If JR were on the Dubs, we’d see an epic Monta Ellis-Stephen Curry-JR Smith-Corey Maggette-Vlad Rad lineup. No defense whatsoever (except for a bit from Curry), but 115 ppg offense. Of course, they’d let up 120 ppg to the opponent, but who cares, the Dubs are destined to suck for the next 5 years, so they might as well make it super-fun to watch.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"If the NBA were on channel 5 and a bunch of frogs making love were on channel 4, I'd watch the frogs, even if they were coming in fuzzy." - Bobby Knight
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
Give him
to the end of the year. If he doesn’t show any signs of imrovement then shop him in the off season. You’ll get much more in the off season that at the deadline unless a contender loses a shooter for an extended period of time ie. Boston nd Allen or Cleve and Gibson or Dallas and Terry.
Honestly though, if Denver trades JR I hope it’s to an East team. If he goes to Dallas or SA or LA or Portland etc… that would suck really bad b/c I do think he will pan out to be a good player. I still have faith in JR, but I did lose some from before after this move.
I'm off the JR bandwaggon now, trade him if we can get a good deal like the one's Andrew mentioned
we made it so far last year because we played as a team, I would hate to see JR bring this team back to the AI days where it was all about individual success.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
denver and new jersey trade
JR Smith, Renaldo Balkman, Malik Allen to Nets
Courtney Lee, Earl Clark, Tony Battie to Nuggets
Trade accepted via ESPN Trade Machine.
We get a proven SG in Lee with NBA Finals experience and has shown that he’s not a head case. We get a young SF in Clark who despite his Twitter issues was a beast in college and can play D. And Battie can play 8 minutes a game, give us 6 fouls and grab a few boards. Would GK play him? I don’t know, but he’s bound to have better hands than Petro.
Earl Clark plays for the suns
his former Lolville teammate Terrence “T-Will” or “Chilly Willy” Williams plays for the Nets. With that said, i’d still do that trade.
JR to the Warriors...
Would be worth it just to watch them fight over who has to take the ball out of bounds (and thus, never get it back).
This is very disheartening
JR doesnt seem worth the trouble
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
jr smith trade scenario
The Best Deal Out There To Me Is Clippers (deandre jordan,eric gordon,marcus camby) for(j.r. smith,balkman,birdman and a 2nd) This Deal Would Make The Nuggets Even Better In My Opinion. Gordon Is An Upgrade Over Smith With What Were Trying Too Accomplish. Better Overall Skill Set And Team Mentality. This Is A Deal All Nugget Fans Would Be Extremely Happy With.
I think he was being funny :)
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
Eric Gordon Is A Better Player Than J.R.Smith
If The Nuggets Could Somehow Add Gordon,Camby,and Jordan. The Bench Becomes That Much Deeper And Stronger. You Could Start Gordon And Bring Afflalo Off The Bench And We Would Be Much Bigger And Better Defensively With Camby and Jordan. A Sure Lock To Win It All.
I agree GOD, Gordon is much better than JR...
…Unfortunately I figure that Gordon and Blake Griffin are the only 2 Clippers who are close to untouchable from their standpoint. The secret is out on JR (though, I don’t think it was ever much of a secret to begin with). We’d be fortunate to get Deandre Jordan straight up for him. But I like the wishful thinking.
I Dont Know About That CaddyJack This Is the clippers Were Talking About.Plus I Think Smith Would Thrive In L.A.
Believe me, I hope you're right
But knowing how historically cheap Sterling is, I can’t see it happening. He usually waits until after their bargain rookie contracts are up to let his best players go.
even the clippers won't do this deal
Why would they do this deal? Jordan and Gordon are young, talented and still on their rookie contracts, the pick would be low and Bird isn’t at full strength. Basically this deal makes the Clippers less talented and doesn’t give them salary cap relief or flexibility. The fact is, a suspension, or even the rumor of discipline problems absolutely kills JR’s trade value. This is the same reason why we were able to get him for essentially a stick of gum and pocket lint. If teams believe that we’re shipping him out because he’s a discipline problem, we can only expect pennies on the dollar in return. I’d like to think that we could get Foster, but the last thing Indy wants is a potential headcase. Chicago might be the best place to shop JR. They need shooting and might want to make up for trading him. I like Ty Thomas but he’s considered to have the same problems as JR. I wish we could get full value, but in the NBA, the only teams that can trade damaged goods for equal or greater value wear green and white or purple and gold. I think we’re better off keeping him and hoping for the best.
by adub on Jan 24, 2010 11:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
How likely is it that JR will be traded?
In everyone’s opinion?
What with the season-long slump and this most recent suspension, I can’t imagine the chances are much higher than 25%.
Personally, I can’t see JR getting traded. As necessary as it may be by now, I just don’t think the F.O. can work out a deal that gets rid of JR but at the same time doesn’t cripple the team’s bench scoring.
I think you're right, the chances are pretty low
Unfortunately we just waited too long. Shoulda pulled the trigger when his stock still had some value. Worst case scenario is this turns into a Marbury/Tinsley type situation with the F.O. telling him, in effect, to cash your check and ‘stay away.’ And we get nothing for him. To make a trade for this guy we would have to deal with either a dysfunctional franchise (Warriors, come out to tra-yee-ade!) or an arrogant franchise who believes their culture is strong enough to “change” JR (Ask George Karl and Byron Scott about that. Or ask Doc Rivers about his Marbury experience).
So, yeah, chances probably not good of trading him. Unfortunately.
I wouldn't say they are too good
But the thing the FO needs to realize is that it’s ok not to get as much value out of him as he may be worth. We are freeing ourselves of somewhat of a cancer at this point in time and that doesn’t always come cheap. I think if we could trade JR for another SG who may not be as good but doesn’t have behavioral probs then we really need to consider it.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:17 AM MST up reply actions
I would love to see JR strait up for Shane Battier. with him and AAA, we would be the best equiped team in the league for stopping kobe. Besides that, I like the GS trade. does anyone know if Morrow can play SF?
by GetOffMyNuggets on Jan 24, 2010 10:14 PM MST reply actions
Yes to Battier
Idk if the Rockets would do it tho. He’s not having a great year, so they might, but he would be a great fit off the bench for the Nugs. Love his hustle and work ethic too.
by FairOrFowler24 on Jan 24, 2010 10:50 PM MST up reply actions
I would do that in a heartbeat
But Battier is the heart and soul of the Rockets and I don’t think they would do it unless we were to take on T-Mac which obviously isn’t going to happen.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:18 AM MST up reply actions
Stopping Kobe
With AA and Battier, you are right. The Nuggets could easily shut Bryant down.
Trouble is Bynum/Gasol/Odom would eat up our undersized bigs.
Any trading of Smith needs to address Denver’s lack of size.
Am I doomed to hell for all my rock 'n' roll?
MORROW IS A TERRIBLE TRADE! Why Trade Smith For A Specialist? Morrow’s Offense Is Very Limited, Yes He Can Shoot But He Ca’nt Get His Own Shot. ANd He’s Nowhere Near As Athletic. Thats Like Trading Steve Kerr For Ray Allen They Both can Shoot When There Open But Only One Can Get Himself Open.
What's with
capitalizing every word?
by FairOrFowler24 on Jan 24, 2010 10:49 PM MST up reply actions
Was gonna ask the same thing
by ParkHillNative on Jan 25, 2010 12:17 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
These trade ideas seem awful
JR Smith’s strongest asset to the Nuggets right now is his ability to generate offense for the bench players by taking people off the dribble and running a pick and roll. Trading him for 3 point specialists like Reddick or Morrow is a horrendous idea because it will cripple the Nugget’s ability to score when the starters are resting. Players like Reddick, Morrow and Miller are also not very good defenders, which is another significant flaw in these trade proposals.
and what?
JR is a good defender? Reddick’s defense is underrated. He did a decent job on Ray Allen in the Celtics Magic series last playoffs. Morrow is terrible. Miller has a more rounded game and could easily average 15, 5 and 5
And...
You say that JR’s strongest asset is his ability to take people off the dribble and run the pick and roll. I give you… Ty Lawson. It would be very comfortable to have a dead eye spot up shooter to dish to, who can knock down these open shots, and not try and go one on five, with these dribbling behind his back moves that inevitably result in turnovers and scores (usually transition 3’s) on the other end.
K-Mart said...
In training camp that he felt that all this team was missing was a dead eye shooter. That’s when everyone got all on Steve Novak’s nuts
by NuggetsLife on Jan 25, 2010 2:42 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Redick is a career 38.9% 3pt shooter
JR is a career 37% 3pt shooter.
This year, Redick is shooting 40.5% from 3-pt territory. JR is shooting 32.3%.
This year, JR has a 40% FG%. Redick has a 44% FG%.
Redick is also a career 85.1% FT shooter. JR is a career 75.4% FT shooter.
Is Redick a dead eye shooter? No. Is JR? No.
But Redick is better, and is having easily the best year of his career.
by Uh on Jan 25, 2010 9:01 AM MST up reply actions
The thing is though
And I think the gist of Andrew’s post, is that JR just isn’t very good right now, either on-court or off the court. The suspension is the actual proof of that, and the numbers back it up as well.
Last year he was a very effective player, garnering considerable attention for sixth man of the year. This year, not so much. His PPG has gone down a point, his FT% has sunk by 6%, he is getting one fewer rebound per game, his assists are down, his turnovers are up, his 3PT% has gone down dramatically, and worst of all, his FG% is down from 45% to just 40%. The declining FG% wouldn’t be so bad, except he is shooting the ball about two more times per game this year. He is taking shots earlier in the shot clock and disrupting the offense. His defense has improved only marginally.
JR is not the player he was last year. Take a look at Reddick: higher FG%. higher 3PT%, higher FT%, and solid defense. Miller: much higher FG%, higher FT%. Morrow: higher FG%, higher 3PT%, higher FT%. These players are all much more efficient than JR is presently. You can get productive bench points from any of them.
And just because Redick/Morrow/Miller aren’t great defenders, does not make them significantly worse than JR. JR isn’t a great defender either. By trading for one of those stretch-the-floor, 3-pt specialists, you are upgrading over JR right now at the risk that he goes and becomes an All-Star with another team. Question is, does the F.O. take that risk? And will other teams accept that risk?
by Uh on Jan 24, 2010 10:46 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
People overrate JR to a very large extent. We always talk about the scoring off the bench, the great shooting, the ability to create his own shot, but what about his awful turnovers, poor ft% and lack of defense? It’s the gift and the curse with JR and for some reason people always want to emphasise the gift. Just keep in mind we do have one of the best offenses in the entire league. Scoring we do not need, no matter where it comes from. What we need is a team, and players who are committed to winning as a team, not for individual gratification.
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 12:24 AM MST up reply actions
Just an idea.
How about a three team trade among the Nuggets, Clippers and Kings.
The Nuggets get Rasual Butler and Spencer Hawes
The Clippers get Francisco Garcia, Petro and Sean May
The Kings get JR Smith and Al Thorton
Between Orlando:
JR Smith And Petro for Marcin Gortat and JJ Redick
Between Houston:
JR Smith for Shane Battier
Between NJ Nets:
JR Smith for Yi Jianlian and Dooling
Between Washington
JR Smith and Johan Petro for Brendan Haywood and Nick Young
Between the Bucks:
JR Smith and Petro for Ilyasova, Charlie Bell and Jodie Meeks
Great Read!
I loved how you pointed out that smarts go hand in hand with talent. What’s the point of having all the talent in the world if your not able to tap into it? JR is definitely a special player but I’m no longer convinced that he’s quite as good as everyone thinks and it would be wise of our management realise a pattern that has occurred with him, which is that he is actually getting worse with each passing year instead of better. At the same time, I can’t help but think if he just had a coach who could help him, and befriend him instead of make him his enemy that we might not be talking about this at all and he would in fact improve instead of get worse.
Scott Hastings is Matt Foley
Surrender today! Break the chains that bind u whatever they r and make a difference!
a deal with the bucks
trade smith for warrick, francisco elson and jodie meeks. scott skiles was hospitalized with chest pains. bucks signed stackhouse because redd is done for the season. denver gives up a shooting guard and gets a shooting guard, combo forward and a forward center. part of smith’s problem is the same problem kleiza had last season. if he sticks with denver after the trade deadline his game may improve. the rumor mill may be getting to him.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
i actually think this is a decent trade
but only because I’ve always thought the Nuggets should get Warrick
2 Reasons why JR for Battier won't work.
First, Battier is 31, JR is 25… Denver loses on youth. Second, Battier is the only way Houstonha a remote chance of beating Denver or OKC. Battier gives them a chance to stop Melo and Durant. You lose Battier, you lose any shot of beating Den or OKC.
There is talk of...
SUSPENDING JR.
I guess if there was talk of TRADING him the DS blog would be talking about sending him to China chained to the hold of a cargo ship. Talk about being over reactive… sheesh
Interestingly, I haven't seen anyone on here being "over reactive" yet
Why do you think discussing trade scenarios constitutes overreacting? We as Nuggets fans have stuck with JR through everything, but he seems to not have gotten his act together. What could be more of a “wake-up call” than a month in jail (don’t answer that). I mean, we could sit here and wait for another 5 years, hoping that next year will be the year he figures it out. Or we could hope to trade him and the risk he carries.
by Uh on Jan 25, 2010 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
Cuz JR didn't have this coming
his behavior and painfully inconsistent play over the past years hasn’t led to the team and fans questioning his true value to the team. give me a break man.
by FairOrFowler24 on Jan 25, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
RE: JR
To fellow Nugget fans: Trade the bum.
To the rest of the NBA: Man, JR has unlimited potential, we are fools to even consider trading him, but . . .
Stock Dropping
Not sure what team wants a ‘talent’ like JR. However, there’s a lot of teams in the NBA…takes just one!
Interesting development
I’m not really into predicting trades because it gives me a headache, but as long as we’re talking about Houston, JR for Ariza works. Do I think it will happen? No.
I say stick him at the end of the bench, let Joey take his minutes and let’s move on. If a pretty good trade offer comes along, thing about it….but, who is going to trade for JR right now? What contender or rebulding team needs a shooter that can’t shoot with a bad attitude? It is a tough sell.
I like Ariza as a Nugget as long as he can play SG
Despite playing SF, I think Ariza would be a great contributor off the bench playing either shooting guard or small forward to spell Melo. His numbers in Houston right now are terrible, but I suspect that is mainly because he is relied upon as a primary scorer, which he is not. He plays good D (better than JR anyway), and is young (only 24). As a role player off the bench who can occasionally hit the 3 (don’t count on it consistently though, he’s not a great 3pt shooter) and can slash to the basket, he could make a nice addition.
On the other hand, I can’t see much incentive for the Rockets to trade Ariza. They just signed him to a 5-yr deal, and probably won’t give up on him just for the slim chance of getting an All-Star out of JR. Especially when JR is almost as inefficient as a primary scorer, and on top of that a far worse defender.
by Uh on Jan 25, 2010 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
Houston's motivation
Would be to get a scorer that they need. We would basically be trading offense and a litte D (or the threat of offense) for defense and a little O.
But isn't Ariza their scorer right now?
JR would be the same JR in Houston as he in Denver, only with more shots to take (and subsequently miss). Do you think JR should be relied upon by a team to be their go-to guy as a starter? I agree JR has more upside than Ariza, but I just don’t think Houston would benefit much from getting a similarly inefficient, worse defensive player, who maybe becomes a star if everything goes right.
by Uh on Jan 25, 2010 9:23 AM MST up reply actions
you forgot to mention
Ariza is great at intercepting InboundingLobPasses…..
by InboundingLobPass on Jan 25, 2010 8:11 PM MST up reply actions
Everyone is on Karl for how he treats JR
but the Nuggets have been the only organization to give Smith a chance. NO and Chicago couldn’t wait to get rid of him.
The HoopsWorld story also has an interesting tangent. If Karl is not going to have his contract renewed, does it make sense to get rid of Smith to appease Karl? My thinking is that at 25 and Smith regressing, it doesn’t matter who is head coach.
in any case
it would be folly to plan your coaching decision around an immature, idiotic, criminal like JR.
I would love this...
“J.R. Smith and Renaldo Balkman to the Magic for J.J. Redick and Brandon Bass”
Absolutely loves Bass’ game and it would fit in perfectly with the Nuggets style. He’s a hard worker and would absolutely destroy the boards in Denver’s offense. Redick also seems pretty decent in an up-tempo style and has the skills and the knowledge to knock down spot-up 3s, something that Denver’s offense has lacked.
JR did more than just sulk on the bench..
JR not only sulked, but left his team for the lockerroom in the 4th Quarter. In essence, he quit on his team during a tight home game. Then, when Chapman talked him into returning, he spent the rest of the game sulking and talking to Lil Wayne. This is uncalled for, and Chauncey and Melo need to take him to the woodshed. I am convinced that they are the only two people in the Organization he listens to.
by ACEIII on Jan 25, 2010 10:57 AM MST via mobile reply actions
He is not going to get traded
because they will not get fair VALUE in return. I do not like any of your trades because you are trading a top 6th man when he is playing well for a bunch of average players at best. None of your trades would improve this team. I think most of them would makes us worse.
The only way we trade JR is if they can get another legit scorer in return. Everyone says trade him for a big but if we do that we lose a ton of scoring off the bench. Yes JR has not been great this year but when I watch him I see a player that has lost his confidence. It is the coaching staffs job to motivate their players and keep them confidence. I do not care how great of a player someone is, if they lose their confidence they will play bad. JR historically always plays better after the All-Star Break and steps up his game in the playoffs. I agree JR is still childish at times but he is still really young at 24 and has a ton of untapped potential.
You mention Karl and Smith have bonded a littele more this season. Well it is the coaches job to suck up his pride and do everything in his power to help a player reach their potential. I think Karl is a little to old school and can not relate to they younger player. I put just as much blame on the off season that JR is having on Karl. He should not be using assistants to communicate with any player. JR and Karl really need to work out their problems.
My last thought is if the FO does not intend of resigning Karl they should not trade JR. If they bring in a new coach next year they should give it time to see if the new coach can help JR reach his potential. I know JR drives a lot of people on this site crazy but I am one that is not ready to give up on the guy
by gnarlybroncodude on Jan 25, 2010 11:19 AM MST reply actions
YOU CANT COMBINE EXCEPTIONS WITH PLAYERS
Hasn’t this been covered here yet?
Also, Francisco Garcia is hurt. Has been all year. Who would back up the 2? Hawes is as big of a bitch as JR, too.
JR for Rudy Gay straight up works. Memphis is worried about Gay getting an offer they can’t match this summer, but I still say they can get more for him than JR.
JR and Malik Allen for Randy Foye and Brendan Haywood is our best bet. The F.O. is in love with Haywood, but it’s a matter of convincing Washington to take on a Gilbert-in-the-making and potentially going through many more PR disasters down the road.
Washington just said they're not trading Haywood
and Foye has recently been coming into his own for the Wiz in Agent Zero’s absence. You’d be better off trying to get Nick Young or DeShawn “I can’t feel my face” Stevenson and Andray Blatche
In just about every cop movie or TV show, there comes a point where they have got the bad guy in jail, but he’s yelling and screaming threats to the cop and telling him how he’s going to kill him and all that, at which point the cops says “you’re the one in jail”. The bad guy just doesn’t see the big picture. JR is just like that guy, he doesn’t see the big picture. He grew up in a stable middle class family, yet he craves the bad boy image of Melo, KMart and AI, he wants their street cred. I bet those guys would have given anything to have a family like JR grew up with. That is the big picture JR doesn’t get. JR doesn’t see anything bigger than himself. He doesn’t grasp working for the common good can benefit him too. Seeing the big picture is what growing up is about and some guys never do. The big picture isn’t about street gangs, it’s about major corporations and governments. JR thinks he’s rich? What does he think Stan Kroenke is and where does he think Stan;s money came from? JR thinks he’s powerful? He hasn’t seen anything yet. JR needs an education and nobody has ever stepped up to educate him. Until he sees the big picture, he’ll never be a factor in the NBA.
Steve could nearly have been me, but I didn’t have anybody telling me how smart I was (unless I got bad grades) and I got the college diploma without five colleges.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
I'll probably get blasted for this...but
JR is a kid still. I know there are ALOT of 24 year olds who stay out of trouble, but the truth is every young person matures differently. And just because you make a gazillion dollars does not make you grow up any faster or be less emotional etc.
I hope the chat the Billups has with him goes something like this….
Chauncey-"JR, man, wtf, man, don’t screw up our championship year. Get it, man?
JR – “Chaunce, I’m dealing with alot of…..”
Chauncey- “Shut the F up, JR,” /smack
JR- “got it Chaunce”
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
by SDcat09 on Jan 25, 2010 1:09 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Curious
At what point do you draw the line and make him take responsibility for himself?
The next time, the next time ….the next time?
Not judging, I have a tendency to be a pretty forgiving person, but at some point you have to draw a line. And, I hope that is how the conversation goes but I doubt it. Take a look at his tweets that were posted. Does that sound like a person that gets it, or is even close to getting it?
I'm not convinced those were his tweets
Keith Olbermann had tweets faked under his name. And I thought JR stopped his Twitter…
and what a weird sentence….lol
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
oh and to address your question..
he’s pretty much on his thinnest ice now….
so we’ll see…..
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
Give me a break
JR is 24 freakin years old. He’s been a man now for over 6 years!
by GoldenNugget on Jan 25, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
Sorry I know quite few 24 year old who are definitely not men.....
big difference in being 24 on paper and technically an adult vs being a man…
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
Melo is 25, Lebron is 25
both those guys seem leaps and bounds ahead of JR when it comes to maturity yet they are only a year older. Kobe was leading his team to championships at 24. This is why JR is and may never be a great player, he doesn’t get it while these actual stars have gotten it(for the most part).
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Kobe also had shaq
so i wouldn’t say he was “leading them” he also raped a girl rawdog in colorado so i also wouldn’t use him as the epitome of maturity.
ouch
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
He and Rocky would be an unbeatable dunking tandem
by ParkHillNative on Jan 25, 2010 1:46 PM MST up reply actions
Rocky>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Gorilla Man
Dear Rockies- What a fun ride! Best comeback in MLB history to become NL Wild Card Champs.
Troy Tulowitzki-MLB's BEST shortstop..nuff said
Yorvit Torrealba-Our clutch has gone out,along with the best name in MLB.
Brad Hawpe- Yo,Carl Crawford, Brad would like his mojo back ASAP
Dexter Fowler- Blinding speed, blinding smile, leaps Utleys in a single bound.
no doubt about that
I would not agree to any trade involving Rocky
by ParkHillNative on Jan 25, 2010 4:22 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
the best wat to resolve this problem
earl smith and george karl should sit down with president obama. the three of them can discuss all of the issues over some cough drops.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Andy...
Are you seriously blaming Darrent Williams shooting on JR co-hosting a new year eve party? What kind of B.S. tabloid journalism logic is that? Remember one of your favorites Kmart was the co-host.
Maybe the earthquake in Haiti is his fault too??
My name is the One...
Andy doesn't seem to like Kmart very much
Let that be clear…
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