The NBA ... where assists may or may not happen
by Nate Timmons on Apr 6, 2009 1:18 PM MDT
Email
Print
If Bill Shakespeare were a basketball fan then his famous quote may have come out a bit differently. Perhaps he would have mumbled, "To award an assist or not to award an assist: that is the question."
NBA statisticians can be a fickle bunch. After Chris Andersen was awarded just one block during his incredible three blocks in a row sequence in Dallas on March 27th I got to thinking how subjective stats can be.
In an article I read in the Wall Street Journal titled The NBA's Most Misleading Number it states that, "An NBA spokesman said league officials review every game to make sure statistics are credited properly."
And yet Andersen is still only credited with one block in that Dallas game. And we all witnessed him swatting at least two with the third perhaps coming after the 24-second shot clock expired.
Anyway, I really started thinking about how subjective stats can be, especially since the home teams provide the stat crews.
You wouldn't think that with a rule book that calls could be too off, but just look at how assists are determined, according to the Wall Street article:
The NBA statistician's manual says an assist should be "credited to a player tossing the last pass leading directly to a field goal, only if the player scoring the goal responds by demonstrating immediate reaction to the basket."
Yesterday during Jason Kidd's 20 assist game there was a play where he passed the ball off to Josh Howard and after a couple dribbles he pulled up and shot a jumper ... Kidd was credited with an assist. I don't think that play directly led to a field goal, but that is where the judgment of the statistician comes into play.
The Wall Street article is very interesting and worth a read. Some great nuggets about the Nuggets in there. Here is another link to the story.
Numbers and stats in basketball are not always what they seem. We don't necessarily get the whole picture with assist stats or stats at all.
ntimmons73@yahoo.com
18 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Hey Nate...
Thanks for throwing up a game thread yesterday.
I didn’t have access to a computer and couldn’t make it…but I should be able to make it Wednesday.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
Game threads
Ya what gives PosterNugbag? I throw up a game thread at your request and you don’t even show up??? Hahaha…joking of course.
Seemed to be pretty active after the game got going … an interesting way to watch the game. Plus as I’ve stated in the past – my roommates are not the biggest basketball fans so it’s good to talk a little Nuggets with some other fans.
Yeah..
I’ve come to really enjoy watching games with threads.
I started doing it at MHR for the Broncos games; however, I think it’s even better for Nuggets games as my wife could care less and I often watch the games by myself. A game thread gives you the opportunity to discuss the game with room full of Nuggets fans. Furthermore, SB Nation has the best forum for these threads by for due to its format and live update comments.
I bet if some people find out there’s a live thread here by the playoffs then you could get some fairly lively discussions during the playoffs.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
Let's get the word out!
Pickaxe and Roll … your place for Nuggets live game threads!
Tell your friends.
The Mile High Report is great for those of you Bronco fans who don’t know about it … check it out at www.milehighreport.com … they do a great job over there and Broncos Nation is all over the place!
A little advertising might be in order.
I’ll try to drop some comments at MHR (Guru’s okay with it…I’ve talked to him before about it).
Also, the Av’s and Rockies SB sites might be a good place to try. I’ll try to comment at DP on game day too.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
Nice.
I have noticed that MHR has a strong following and I’d assume most of those fans are or should be Nuggets fans right?! Ha.
Rox opened up last night with an old school effort … lots of hitting, but not a lot of pitching.
You’d think most that folks at MHR are Nugs fans but unfortunately that’s not the case. There are handful of Nugs fans.
I’m a little worried that the Rox are going to…how do I say…suck badly this year.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
Rox!??!
I have a friend who is a Colorado SuperFan and bleeds Rox purple. He saw that I wrote on here that the Rox had taken a step back with the Matt Holiday trade and my buddy threatened to take away my ticket for the Nuggets first home playoff game (we get a huge group to attend games).
Needless to say I spent the next 5-10 minutes apologizing as to not get my ticket revoked. I hope he doesn’t read this! …
Pickaxe & Roll.com: 5,280 reasons to be a Nuggets fan
A quick note regarding the Rox
They put up a strong 3-0 shut-out tonight against the Dbacks. Ubaldo is good, might want to check him out if you haven’t seen him already.
Also, the Purple Row (www.purplerow.com) is a great place to check in and learn about all things Rockies. They’ve had over 1,700 and 2,000 posts in their game threads for the first two games, respectively. Check it out if you’re interested in them.
Also, the Rockies are going to do better than most people are expecting to. Yes, they lost Holliday, but they have a good/talented group of young players that are underrated and poised to break out (Stewart, Smith, Fowler, Tulo, Ubaldo, etc.). Their hitting and bullpen should be in pretty good shape, the big question mark is their starting pitching. Sorry for going on, but the start of the baseball season always gets me excited.
by blooming rock on Apr 8, 2009 12:07 AM MDT up reply actions
The Rox and blooming rock
Thanks for the input!
For myself I’m a member of purplerow.com for sure. Great insight over there on the team.
I also love me some Seth Smith! I’d still have to say the best game I’ve probably ever attended live has to be Game 163 against the Padres … wow … just a great one!
Pickaxe & Roll.com: 5,280 reasons to be a Nuggets fan
Even objective projections
have the Rox scoring more runs than last year. a LOT of guys had down years which just won’t be duplicated, and with out-machine Willy Taveras gone, there will be a lot more RBI opportunities. They are going to be fun to watch. They may not have the mega-omg-all-star-slugger, but they do boast the deepest lineup in the league….After all, the 8-hole hitter on Opening Day set the franchise record for HR by a catcher last year, and he wasn’t the starter for the full season….and he’ll get better.
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
by Andrew T. Fisher on Apr 8, 2009 10:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I only found the game threads awhile ago
But once I saw how cool the discussions became I signed up. Pickaxe and Roll is awesome along with Roundball and FireGeorgeKarl. Thanks for putting up the blogs guys for all the discussion between games. GO NUGGETS!
I BELIEVE IN KOOL
"You want to have the Renaldo Balkman problem,"
Shamp ooh
Well thanks for joining up and getting yourself heard.
My internet went down in the second half of the TWolves game and when I signed back on I saw you were active in the game thread … we’ll be getting it going Wednesday night.
I hope to join more threads during the playoffs. Don’t get many games out by me and sometimes the online streams are a bit shaky.
On the subject of stats, that’s exactly the same sort of thing that is apparent in hockey too. I run the Pittsburgh Penguins blog here on SBN and we recently had a debate about the legitimacy of blocked shots and hits on a player’s stat sheet. There are even some arenas that players admit are more generous in terms of awarding hits. I guess it’s a universal thing in sport. Even baseball can have a similar issue with umpires defining a strike zone or football refs calling pass interference or roughing the QB.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
Good points FrankD
Also is a speed game like hockey along w/ basketball it’s pretty tough on those involved to catch everything accurately. I’m sort of surprised that more stats don’t get changed AFTER the games are reviewed or said to be reviewed by the league.
But I also like the human element … it’s been around forever and I don’t think it’d be right to remove it. Like with the automated strike zone in baseball … I don’t think that should ever replace the umpire behind the plate.
Tricky subject and lots of different takes I’d imagine on how technology should come into play now that we have it. Though I don’t think basketball lends itself to much unless you wanted to review calls … which would take all the rhythm out of games.
Though I don’t think basketball lends itself to much unless you wanted to review calls … which would take all the rhythm out of games.
That’s exactly why baseball opened up to reviewing calls this season but only on questionable home run calls. Could you imagine if they reviewed every ball to see if it was a strike or vice versa? Dear God, baseball would go from its normal three to four hours and edge closer to eight.
The human element is key. All the more reason for the Nugs to treat the friendly neighborhood stat keepers to a luxurious meal before every game. In all seriousness though, I wonder if statisticians will ultimately get to that point of being like refs. By that I mean, they travel from arena to arena and have no allegiance to either team. Perhaps that would make for more accurate stats that don’t favor the home team, something many players claim is prevalent.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
I've always felt assists are way too subjective
If any of the big PGs passes it, like CP3, DWilliams, Nash, it’s like the scorer has their hand on the assist button just waiting to give them credit if at all possible. It’s been like that for years, Utah was notorious for that with Stockton, and I still remember a game when Scott Skiles was playing for the Orlando Magic and got the single game assists record of 30 . . . quite a few of those assists were iffy to say the least.
On the other hand, when unexpected players give it up, it’s almost as though it catches the stat guys off guard. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve thought Melo or Nene deserved an assist but didn’t get credit for it. But as Nate said . . . it’s part of the game. As long as people recognize that big guys can pass too, (e.g. – Melo and Nene are both very good passers)
Melo and assists
I do think that big guys probably miss out on some assists … though I have no data at the moment on it. I don’t think you can knock guys and call them “ball hogs” just based off their assist numbers and I for one am probably one guy who in the past would do that. But I’m changing my ways! ha.
Pickaxe & Roll.com: 5,280 reasons to be a Nuggets fan
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Andrew Feinstein
(denverstiffs@gmail.com)
Nate Timmons
(ntimmons73@yahoo.com)
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
DENVER STIFFS T-SHIRTS!
Enter your email for updates
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Days of NBA Lives: Wherein Hamed Haddadi goes to the zoo
- David Stern changed the competition committee to push new rules, report says
- Nazr Mohammed films Oklahoma City Thunder fans welcoming the team back at 5:30 in the morning (VIDEO)
- The Orlando Magic finally part ways with both Stan Van Gundy and GM Otis Smith
- Mike D’Antoni breaks silence on New York Knicks exit: ‘An obstacle had to be removed’
