The bad losses start adding up... (Nuggets/Grizzlies recap)
The Nuggets are off to one of their best starts in NBA franchise history. But you wouldn't know it by watching their last two games...
All of the NBA's elite teams would be in serious trouble if their top players/alpha dogs went down due to injury. If the Lakers lost Kobe Bryant, they'd be finished. The Spurs sans Tim Duncan? Season over. The Cavaliers minus LeBron? Roll out the white flags. The Mavericks Dirk-less? Ditto.
But while I'd include our Nuggets among the NBA's elite, one thing seems to separate us from the rest of the pack: without one of our top four or five players in the game, the Nuggets stink. Ever since the Nuggets finished a respectable 5-2 out of the gate sans J.R. Smith (arguably the Nuggets fourth or fifth-best player), they can't win a game when one of their top-five guys goes down. Especially one of their two defensive stalwarts, Kenyon Martin and Chauncey Billups. And today's matinee loss at Memphis (even though the Nuggets had a full day of rest prior) was further proof of this.
In three games without K-Mart and now two games without Billups, the Nuggets are 0-5. Comparatively, the Lakers were 8-3 when their second-best player, Pau Gasol, opened the season in a suit and loafers. The Spurs managed to go 2-2 without the services of star guard Tony Parker. While Rashard Lewis served a drug suspension, the Magic finished 7-3. Since Greg Oden went down with a season-ending injury, the Blazers have hung in at 3-4. And minus Josh Howard, the Mavericks are 13-6 on the season. Even the Jazz managed to play .500 basketball in the two games Deron Williams, their best player, missed.
And yet the Nuggets can't seem to reel off victories unless all five star players - Carmelo Anthony, Billups, J.R., K-Mart and Nene - are on the floor. If the Nuggets couldn't beat the hapless Pistons, Bobcats and (admittedly improved) Grizzlies while missing one of their top-five guys, I cringe to think what happens when the Nuggets face a real NBA team without one of their best players on the floor.
Let's call the Nuggets inability to put a game together without both Billups and K-Mart in the game "Problem #1." And we'll call their woeful rebounding and porous interior defense "Problem #2." The Grizzlies put in 27 second-chance points and grabbed 18 more rebounds than the Nuggets today. Last time I checked, that's not Chauncey's department in the first place.
The two problems point to one glaring need: the Nuggets need an extra big man. Marc Gasol may not be walking through the door in a Nuggets uniform anytime soon, but any competent big will do at this point. Perhaps we should convert my summer wish list for a big man into a Christmas wish list...
Stiffs of the Game
-J.R. Smith, Ty Lawson and Kenyon Martin: J.R. built off his great game at New Orleans by shooting 12 shots and making just two of them. He also had three careless turnovers and no assists. Meanwhile, Lawson rewarded Nuggets head coach George Karl for anointing him as starting point guard by dishing out just two assists and missing all three of his shot attempts. And K-Mart was assigned to guard Zach Randolph who...
Non-Stiff of the Game
-Zach Randolph: ...lit up K-Mart and the Nuggets for 32 points and a stunningly high 24 rebounds (nine offensive). Z-Bo was so dominant over K-Mart that K-Mart's +/- at game's end was -20. Ewww. Last time I checked, Randolph is out of shape and can't jump. So how the @#$% did he grab 24 rebounds? (In fairness to K-Mart, a current NBA assistant coach once told me that no one is smarter at using his body to score and grab caroms than Randolph.)
Opposition's Recap: Straight Outta Vancouver
Photo courtesy of AP Photos: Nikki Boertman
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Embarassing
Plain and simple. Nugs just cannot win on the road with any consistency and I do not believe it will get any better this season without another piece.
It’s early, but if Denver’s road woes continue I can’t see them getting more than a 4 or 5 seed at best and a second round exit. Ugly ugly losses these past two games.
Swats.
it has to be the coaching
ther just not playing fundamental basketball they don’t block out they don’t rebound all they want to do is walk up and down the floor and play no defense. i know they may have a off night shooting but you can make that up if you just fucking play the way you are suppose to. the coaches need to put a fire under there asses hold more practices and get this thing going. i have said this befor this is getting embarassing we make other teams look elite and we let there players have allstar nights we should’nt get dominated by these teams. we should dominate and not lay down like a bunch of girls. lets go nuggets we have a tough team coming in on wednesday lets not make it 3 in a row, fuck this sucks
trent
Tough loss
Nugs started the season 10-4 and follow it up 9-6 despite a way, WAY easier schedule. They are getting worse on the road. The problem is NOT missing K-Mart or Chauncey Billups. That is a routine setback and an adversity that every team in the NBA will deal with. If you had to pick 4 games for these injuries to happen they couldn’t be better – Detroit, Charlotte, New Orleans, Memphis. The Nuggets have been LUCKY with injuries.
The problem is this group doesn’t fight very hard or band together to overcome individual flaws as a team. A trade will not help. There is nothing we can do to facilitate an impact trade since Big Bertha expired last month. It’s up to the coach and the players to stop making excuses and let their performance speak for itself. Watching that PHX game last week in detail I am pretty convinced that all things considered, they are a better complete team and its Denver who has gotten off to a misleadingly hot start. This team is not special and whatever intangibles made last year so great are long gone.
big trade
Make a trade that will be beefed up by Jr Smith as the main package. Rid of that ballhog who is not willing to share the ball to Melo at many occassions that cost the Nuggets its losses.
Nuggets were playing better without JR so it would be better to part with him in exchange for a big who can contribute much. Aaron Afflalo is the prototype guard who can help Melo win championship, not a ballhog like JR.
Blah, blah, blah
The Nuggets problem is this, the Nuggets problem is that. If we just do this, or that then we can start winning games we are supposed to again. It’s too much. That’s the problem. There are too many problems. And none of them seem to be getting fixed. Let’s just take a look at all of them real quick.
Lack of rebounding, no boxing out, poor man defense, JRs terrible shooting, JR’s terrible choices, JR’s ball hoging, JR’s terrible shot selection, Melo’s occasional ball hogging, Karl’s absolutely atrocious in-game management (ie: poor rotations, poor lineups, no timeouts when needed, yanking players when they are hot, not recognizing when opposing players are hot and doing something about it, no accountability, poor defense for much of the year, no plays, no organization, no discipline, etc.), Chauncey’s poor shot selection, Nene’s passive approach to the game, the other players lack of being able to get Nene the ball on a consistent basis, Nene’s poor effort reboudning and boxing out, K-Marts always poor shooting, K-Marts defensive intensity not being where it needs to be, K-Mart’s lack of boxing out, Birdman’s poor one-on-one defense, Birdman’s lack of toughness, Birdman’s inability to box out, Ty’s inability to score when we need it…
Ok, you get the point. We can talk all we want about this, that, whatever, but it’s not ONE thing, it’s EVERYTHING. That’s why we are losing to teams that we are, because everything is falling apart, not just one thing. When one thing fails, we usually pull out the win, but much too often are all things falling apart in unison, thus resulting in our inexcusable loses to teams we are much better than. I have and always will lobby for Karl’s firing, as in my eyes it is clear as day what the problem is. Karl shouldn’t be coaching this team. A man who admits to not being into coaching, shouldn’t be coaching. A man who doesn’ care about his job is insulting all of us, who actually put time, money and our hearts into the Nuggets. But, like I said earlier in the game thread, what does all this bitching and complaining do anyways? I can’t change anything, I’m not in charge. We are stuck with this guy, and we just have to deal with it. All we can hope is that management has our backs in time to get rid of him.
I agree that there's too many issues
Can’t compartmentalize them though, they all need to be addressed simultaneously. Every player on this team has a fault at this time. EVERY ONE. And it’s mental mostly (sans Birdmans and K-Marts injuries and now Chauncey’s too). And the mental side, that’s as much on the coach(es) as anyone.
I disagree
Cutting Ty slack won’t help his longterm development at all. By giving him a pass for being a rookie makes it seem “OK” to screw, under the guile of “rookie mistakes”. Give the guy as much shit, if not more than, the other more seasoned players. Correct the problem now and deal with the backlash, then watch the fruits of your labor payoff in the long run. I think the whole “give the rookie a break” mentality is the reason so many stories of these guys are being labeled as premadonnas or brats. I say toughen the rook up, don’t cut him any slack. He didn’t miss shots or turn the ball over because he’s a rookie. That happens from lack of preparation and mental toughness. Which falls on the coaches, both head and assistants.
by Joelsopinion on Dec 21, 2009 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
The problem is the lack of beef . .
Nugs got worked inside my Gasol, Zach, and even Theebet. We need some more size on the middle.
I could get a polar bear tommorrow..
the option is still open. We need a big man.. the way a fat kid needs twinkees… its almost painful. I think Melo sometimes becomes a ball hog, but what is he supposed to do when every single player at the guard posistion could seem to buy a basket? The last game it was Affalo missing everything, this game JR. If your open and you get the ball.. you need to make a shot. But even without another big guy, how do you get so embarrasingly outrebounded? I could see if we had small weak Post players, but look at Nene, he is a beast, but he plays like a Bi*@H. The nuggets need to man up, or they will once again be watching the lakers play for another championship.. which will give me a ulcer. Lets Go Nuggs…
George Karl
"We’re a little short-handed," coach George Karl said. "It seems like, right now, any time we lose one of our top four or five guys, it doesn’t seem like we get a lightning bolt from the change."
Seems like he agrees with you.
Karl, Krieger and Andrew
Say good bye to George Karl? Dave Krieger of the Post and Andrew Feinstein of this blog disagree. Both think George Karl needs to be resigned to a multiple year contract. Krieger wrote a column in the Post today titled “Nuggets Can’t Stall on Karl’s Contract”. In it, Krieger quoted Andrew….“blogger, Andrew Feinstein now advocates on his renamed blog, denverstiffs.com, that the Nuggets extend Karl’s contract by the end of the all-star break.” Does Kroenke agree with Krieger and Feinstein? Or…does Kroenke agree with many of the Karl critics on this blog?
Eh
Andrew will come around. He knows whats going on. Chauncey was our saviour…last year. This year is a different story. We’re already starting to convert back to our ways that made Andrew launch firegeorgekarl a few years ago. A couple more performances like this and Andrew will come back to reality.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 20, 2009 8:09 PM MST up reply actions
Can't agree more
It’s apparent that the team has tuned out Karl. Basically, this team has become dependent on a new addition each year to come in from good coaching and renew the team. One year, it was Karl. Then A.I., then Billups.
I used to think this was a deep team. It is now clear that this team has 8 players, and after that, if any of the others has to play extended minutes, they lose.
"It's apparent that the team has tuned out Karl."
Yep. Just like back in the 07 & 08 playoffs. Things are once again starting to fall apart. But that’s what happens when you allow your players more freedom than you should, then they start running things instead of you.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 21, 2009 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
Why
Karl was offered a one year deal and refused. The newspaper story is Karl expressing frustration with that and trying to force stans hand. Name one benefit to signing GK now and not evaluating him at seasons end? It makes no sense and will not happen. Extending GK is the saddest thing that could happen to this franchise since losing the WCF last June
by runningdonut on Dec 20, 2009 8:31 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
man is a creature of habit
i had an uncle that was a chicago cop and taught at the police academy. the first lesson he gave the rookies was about habits. we all have them. they are either good habits or bad habits. there are really no in between habits. nuggets have 2 bad habits that go back to last season. getting off to a bad start and building a lead then letting the opponent back into the game. these 2 bad habits are the result of not executing the half court offense. nuggets started out the game 4 of 18 field goal attempts. houston it was 3 for 12 and suns it was 2 for 15. the hornets game there was a 15 point lead and the ok city game the starters were forced to stay in the game until the end. the 3 good habits denver needs are rebounding, free throws and half court execution. these are basic concepts. any girl that plays high school basketball understands and masters these general principles. nuggets are first in the nba for all 3 free throw catagories. mission accomplished. denver just attended the zac randolf rebounding seminar. the coaching staff should just make a video highlight reel and make the team watch it before every game. the half court execution problem is plain and simple selfishness. three simple, easy and very good habits will take denver to the finals. they have the free throw habit. rebounding and half court execution need to be full time commitments.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
As far as embarrasing goes...
This one isn’t as bad as you think. The Grizzlies are surprisingly solid since the A.I. debacle and slowing down the pace if anyone here hasn’t noticed.
They’ve gone from 1-8 to 12-15, which is pretty respectable since it includes legitimate wins against Mavs, Cavs, Miami, Portland with Oden, and now Nuggets.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
yes and no
agree the iverson deal set the grzz back. team does have talent. zac randolf getting 24 rebounds if that is not embarrasing it should be. note of interest about o j mayo. when he was a kid he lived on the white mountain apache reservation in eastern arizona for a year. when mayo played for the university of southern california he returned to the reservation and visited the family he stayed with. usc played at arizona state university. from tempe, arizona to fort apache it is 250 miles one way. i will alway admire mayo for that. here he is the big man on campus and one of the best college basketball players in the country. that was quite a gesture on his part and it is too bad people do not know that about him. kareem abdul-jabbar wrote a book called A SEASON ON THE RESERVATION. the book details abdul-jabbar’s experience as an assistant coach for the local high school team. it is the same reservation o j mayor lived on.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
The Grizzlies are solid, the Nugget performance was what was embarrassing
Don’t take it the wrong way, I think the Grizzlies are an extremely talented team. They might even have more pure talent than the Nuggets. But the way the Nuggets played today was very disappointing, and although the Grizz are a solid team, there is no excuse for the Nugget to play the way they did today against the Grizz.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 20, 2009 10:30 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah.
That 1st quarter was really, really poor effort.
Straight Outta Vancouver - The Memphis Grizzlies DO Still Exist
by djturtleface on Dec 21, 2009 4:33 PM MST up reply actions
I play COD online with Conley sometimes
LOL… just thought I’d throw that out there. He posted his gamer tag on some site (can’t remember at moment) a long time ago, so I pinged him and he accepted my request to add me… Boy is good at COD! Kicks my ass mostly.
But I have often thought “shouldn’t you be in the gym right about now?”… as a Buckeye fan, I hope he elevates his game… the basketball one.
Modern Warfare?
I’ve heard Conley is damn good. I want to play him.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 21, 2009 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
link
Here’s the link to Krieger’s column:
Camby
I am not sure that Denver can get him, with the Clipps closing in on .500 and Griffin soon to return, but Camby would sure fill some of our gaping holes in the middle. Nuggets are just too soft, and get dominated inside by teams with a sold post players. Memphis is solid inside with Gasol, Randolph and Thabeet, and they dominated Nene, Martin and Bird.
As we have repeatedly said, we might make the playoffs with this lineup, but we can forget about even touching the Lake Show.
Even if we did get Camby in w/e scenario
He would come here with a chip on his shoulder after the way mgmt dealt him, and rightfully so. I don’t think we want to see him in powder blue again, if only for that reason.
by Artimus Mangilord on Dec 21, 2009 10:32 AM MST up reply actions
old news
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” -Albert Einstein.
Does anyone else feel like they’re going crazy watching our nuggs continuously make the exact same mistakes game after game? First of all the nuggets have almost always had a problem starting games (especially against “easy” teams) with intensity. Then there’s the poor decision making, one-step-behind interior defense, and ball hogging. (nuggets have to have one of the the worst assist records in the league…not sure on the actual number but whenever i look at the box score i get excited if someone has more than 2 assists…. that’s sad) I do think a big man would help, but we’ve seen kmart get fired up and snatch boards away from big guys and when nene is playing like he knows where he is he gets in there too and puts up impressive numbers. Sometimes, watching this team play basketball is like watching a train wreck in slow motion, and just as we’d be powerless then, we’re all powerless to stop it and change direction. The nuggets need to recognize what’s happening themselves but it’s really the coach’s job. (and not just the head coach either…) I have been upset with Karl’s decisions in the past, and though Andrew’s interview gave me a little more insight I still get pretty pissed at him for taking players out when they’re hot , etc. (as someone pointed out above) I am also beginning to get annoyed with JR Smith. Sometimes he shoots really well and has a great night, but others he is off completely but he keeps taking those same shots expecting them to go in, like it’s a bad dream instead of the 3rd quarter. He needs to reel it in and when he can’t, the coaches need to.
We all know what this team could be, should be, this season. And it IS still a bit early, we have a ways to go. But if the nuggets and their leadership don’t start learning from their mistakes it’s going to be an even longer season for everyone. (and i don’t mean because of a playoff run) Nuggets need to step up and figure out what’s happening and how to fix it, then they need to fix it in the game. Plain and simple.
Don't Worry!
Rumor has it that the ENTIRE Nuggets squad will be attending Bill Hanzlik’s Holiday Hoops Camp!
This is GREAT news for us fans, who are tired of seeing the team play with no fundamentals, no teamwork, no plays, and no passion.
The Nuggets will go up against Colorado’s best and brightest young players, and if the Nuggets fall to the youngun’s, well it looks like they’ll just suit up the kids to become YOUR – NEW – DENVER – NUGGETS!!!
The best part is that ol’ Bill Hanzlik will preside over the team, and coach the new Nuggets to victory, all while looking into the wrong camera.
Then maybe we’ll see what it takes to win a freakin’ basketball game. Can you imagine? Boxing out, passing, cutting, pick and rolls, give and go’s. And don’t forget about those inbound passes!
Bring on 2010!
If I had my druthers
I’d make them run layup and rebouding drills all morning, followed by hundreds of freethrows in the afternoon. Maybe even the three man weave to reinforce the concept of passing. A combination of the players and coaching staff to blame on poor fundamentals recently.
by Artimus Mangilord on Dec 21, 2009 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Someone tell Hanzlik
to stiffen up his ’stache with some Just for Men.
by Artimus Mangilord on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM MST reply actions
Trade Smith for Grownups
Based on my 30 years of following the Nuggets, here are the options—both unrealistic and realistic—-for making this team competitive in the West this season
1- Fire George Karl….not gonna happen this season so fuggida bout it.
2- Bring in an affordable big body to rebound and fiill in when current bigs are out….might win a couple more games but would do nothing to impact team attitude or performance.
3- Hang tough and hope. That’s would be our version of total denial.
Its time to Bite the Big Bullet and use our $3 million exception (before it expires January 4),J.R. Smith and, if necessary, one or two largely unused bench players to secure a truly talented center (Haywood, Foster, or the like) and a proven guard who can shoot well and guard adequately..
Before the J.R. fans go batshit, consider this:
What are the odds that any player who is playing selfishly and often foolishly—-despite incredible raw talent, coach and teammate patience, recent jail time and personal mentoring by Chauncey Billups in the offseason—-is going to become a reliable, respected teammate any time soon?
Conversely, what are the odds that another NBA team with some talented players but no shot at the playoffs for two to three years is going to take a chance on that spectacular raw talent in return for a couple of reliable, respected players who can add both talent and chemistry to the roster? (And if it takes a third team, our front office is quite capable of pulling it off).
Trading any of the other high-value players on the current roster is both impractrical and unwise and going the el cheapo route just to stay near the salary cap will cost Mr. Kroenke millions of dollars in the long run. Bite the bullet, boys!
These losses suck balls.
But I’m still confident. Atlanta tomorrow and Portland on Christmas. Lets get it!


















