No lead is safe... (Nuggets/Hornets recap)
by Nate Timmons on Dec 18, 2009 10:45 PM MST
in Game Recaps
50 comments
In the preview I said the Hornets were having a "hide your face" start to their season, but tonight it was the Nuggets who should be looking to cover their heads after the stink bomb they unleashed in NOLA.
The Nuggets are now 1-1 without Chauncey Billups since he arrived in Denver last season and 0-1 this season without their floor leader. But in Billups' absence the Nuggets found out one thing for sure ... Ty Lawson deserves the bulk of the time at point guard if Billups isn't able to go on Sunday and 26 minutes was not enough for the young guard.
I really don't want to knock Anthony Carter's game because he can be a game manager, but he cannot be a difference maker like Lawson can and was tonight against the Hornets. When Lawson was on the floor Denver's offense seemed to move the ball better and got more opportunities to get out on the fastbreak.
But if you want to point out some areas where the Nuggets failed tonight you have plenty to look at. Ball movement seemed to slow when the ball found it's way to Carmelo Anthony, missed shots/free throws were costly and as the old saying goes live by the three, die by the three.
I completely understand that superstars need to get themselves involved in the game, but Melo's unwillingness to pass the ball tonight was a frustration. When Melo did give up the rock he had success (4 assists), but too often he was trying to force his way to the basket or force up highly contested shots. A good amount of blame also has to be put on Melo's teammates because as double teams came nobody was cutting through the lane. I've played with guys who dominate the ball and sometimes you start to refuse to cut because you know you wont see the ball and that could be what some of the Nuggets think, but at the same time there is no excuse for players to stand around or for Melo to hold the ball as much as he does. The Nuggets are not going to win too many games when Melo shoots jusst 31.2% from the field. Melo did get himself to the foul line (7-9) and got the benefit of some whistles (as did Chris Paul ... it's good to be a star in the NBA).
The Nuggets didn't enjoy a good night shooting the ball. From the field Denver shot a semi-respectable 46.8%, from the foul line just 73.9% and from beyond the arc an atrocious 18.8% (3-16) from downtown. Poor Arron Afflalo was the main dud from beyond the arc tonight going 0-6 from deep ... a very off night for Double-A, who has been playing pretty great for the Nuggets this season.
Without question the Nuggets best lineup tonight featured Ty Lawson and J.R. Smith. The duo combined for 39 points (14 and 25 respectively) and helped build a big lead and helped erase a fourth quarter deficit (79-71) on four straight possessions to start the final period. When Lawson was pulled at the 8:17 mark of the fourth quarter and not re-inserted until the game was basically over I had a big cringe on my face. Lawson seemed to have it going tonight and I would have liked to see Karl ride that hot play a little more than he chose to.
Smith's 4-4 ridiculously hot shooting performance to start the fourth looked like it was going to be enough to get the Nuggets rolling and put the Bees to sleep, but after Smith tied the game at 79-79 the team just never got the offense going again.
I applaud the Hornets for fighting their way back into the game and pulling out the victory in the final period. The knock on the Nuggets is looking like a familiar one from the 2007-08 season ... even if you are down big, hang in because the Nuggets will let you back into the game and maybe even collapse mentally down the stretch just a bit.
Andrew and I discussed a few weeks ago that perhaps he was the jinx this season with his recaps all seeming to be tough losses and now the tide seems to be turning as I've been having to recap some tough ones lately. Never to fear, I'm always a glass half positive person and I expect yet another loss to help motivate the team. One trend seems to be glaring ... when Denver is missing a key player they lose.
Of the Nuggets 8 losses 5 of them have come when the team is not at full strength. The Nuggets feature a strong eight man rotation when 100%, but if any of those eight guys are out this team is going to struggle because the back end of the roster has been unable to step up and while is nearly impossible to replace a Billups or K-Mart you'd think the team would pull through at some point.
Nuggets not at 100%:
at Miami (K-Mart only plays 12 minutes): loss.
at Atlanta (K-Mart out): loss.
at Charlotte (K-Mart out): loss.
at Detroit (K-Mart out): loss.
at New Orleans (Billups out): loss.
Views you can use:
- Ty Lawson started the game 6-6 from the field and finished the game 0-4 from the field
- The Nuggets combined for just 18 team assists ... Chris Paul put up 19 assists himself
- Denver out-rebounded the Hornets 45-43
- The Nuggets bench outscored the Hornets 43-13 and yet somehow lost
- The Nuggets starters were outscored by the Hornets 49-85
ntimmons73@yahoo.com
Twitter: Nate_Timmons
Photo courtesy of AP Photos: Bill Haber
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The Nuggets are struggling to beat mediocre teams on the road.
You can make the excuse that they were out of sync due to Chauncey’s absence, but Denver not being able to close out average teams – with a 15 point advantage – is very worrying.
Denver will need to go better than 21-20 on the road this year if they’re hoping to challenge LA for Western Conference supremacy.
Swats.
expectations
I’ve been saying for at least a couple of weeks now that this team has no hope of challenging the Lakers as things stand now. Something big has to change.
That big change that happened last season when Billups arrived? Something like that needs to happen again this year. Otherwise we’re looking at maybe 50-32, maybe a 4 seed, then losing badly to the Lakers in the second round.
Whatever magic happened when Billups joined last year is gone, they’re much more like they used to be now.
by ParkHillNative on Dec 19, 2009 1:10 AM MST up reply actions
This one is on the coach
I don’t really care how you want to spin this one Nate. The team was behind at the beginning of the game when AC was in and took the lead while Lawson was in. The team clawed their way back into it with 8:17 to go when AC came back in and they were horrible. No flow to the offense at all. It was a bad coaching decision, plain and simple.
Useless stat of the game: Carter was -18 and Lawson was +12.
by My3Cents on Dec 18, 2009 11:33 PM MST reply actions 8 recs
recd in effect
The way the bench played is basically mutiny on Karl’s decision to start AC and Afflalo. The 2nd quarter offense with Swish and Fly Law was clicking beautifully. There was a lot more intensity on offense and D with that unit.
by runningdonut on Dec 18, 2009 11:56 PM MST up reply actions
Word My3Cents
Why would you insert ANTHONY CARTER into the mix when AA is struggling with his shot?
Here is the +/- stat of the year so far
Malik Allen has the worst plus/minus of all Nuggets players but he hardly plays so he does not count. Not counting Malik Allen, Anthony Carter is the worst at +/- among all Nuggets players with 30.
Who is the best? none other than the birdman! He may not be getting as many blocks this year but he sure lets the team feed off of his energy. Look at the link for the Nuggets +/
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22009&split=9&team=Nuggets
Completely agree - it's on Karl
First, not overreacting to the loss. Billups was out, and this is a good home team. That said, some things need to be addressed.
Playing Aflalo and A.C. together is simply inexcusable. With Billups out, A.C. has to play, but the starting lineup was atrocious. He has to start either Lawson or Smith. With A.C., Afflalo, and Martin all in at the same time, the hornets were free to double or more on Anthony without fear of the outside shot.
Karl has a habit of sticking to his rotations, no matter what. He did so a season ago when he took Anthony out of the game when he was hot, resulting in Anthony’s suspension. He did so last night, giving A.C. all of billups minutes when he clearly didn’t deserve them. It’s good for players to know their roles and when they are going to play, but you can’t be so rigid that you don’t recognize the conditions in the game.
The inability to respond properly to a double team is on both Anthony and Karl. Previews of this game stated that N.O. would double Anthony, yet the team seemed completely befuddled by the tactic. We should expect to see more of this, as we defensively see a lot of pick and roll, until they make an adjustment. I’m not optimistic that we’ll see one.
If A.C. and Afflalo play together in the next game, Karl should be fired immiediately. Again, not overreacting to the loss. Win or lose, that was a terrible coaching performace.
Why
Does someone have to be fired when we lose?
by SternfluffsKobe on Dec 19, 2009 9:41 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Not about the loss
but the coaching incompetence. You can’t be as oblivious to game conditions as Karl was last night. It’s one thing to not make an adjustment in game, but given two days to think about it, if he makes the same decision, it’s proof he should no longer be coaching.
Hahahaha
Not overreacting — but OFF WITH HIS HEAD
by Artimus Mangilord on Dec 19, 2009 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
These losses
I guess you can write them off to being shorthanded and on the road. Maybe Karl is right, .500 on the road is difficult and good enough for most teams.
One thing I know, these losses are more troubling to Nuggets management than to GK. Denver will not have a stacked roster every year and to be a perennial tax team like LA is just not reasonable to expect even from an owner like Stan. The higher-ups are looking for a coach who can do more with less. I’ve made that shift mentally and accepted that this is what we will get from the Nuggets on the road, but .500 is still good enough to be in the mix for a 2 seed if we can keep winning at home. When you look at these bad teams defeating us it becomes painfully obvious that they are simply getting more out of the talent they put on the floor. Injuries hurt, but winning on the road is hard enough and it’s just not a fair fight when you have a coach that won’t put his trust in the best players.
Go to as many games as you can this year if you are a Karl fan.
would've should've could've
denver’s 4 guard rotation combined stat line per game average with billups is 48 points, 10 rebounds and 13 assists. without billups tonight it was 54 points, 13 rebounds and 11 assists. the constant double team of melo was a huge difference maker. hornets will use the tactic every time they play denver from here on out. dallas struggled with the double team the first time they played new orleans and lost. perimeter defense is the other area that cost denver. hornets went 8 for 19 with stojakovic going 4 for 8 from 3 point land. smith’s play shows one of 2 reasons why he should start. he can take advantage when melo is double teamed. the other reason is he can get the ball to nene where he can score. chris paul put on a point guard clinic in the second half. the opening of the suns game steve nash scored the first 12 points of the game. he is on the down side of his career. chauncey would not made much of a difference on DEFENSE when paul got it going in the third quarter. the difference billups would have made was posting paul up on OFFENSE and making the hornets pay for double teaming melo.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
by nohoops4u on Dec 18, 2009 11:37 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
guard play
With that kind of production from the guards Denver should win and would have with Billups. Both Lawson and Smith can function as a complimentary scorer and at least one should be in the starting lineup. Starting Melo with Martin, Afflalo, and Carter leaves Nene the only credible second scorer who we don’t get the ball to. The guard heavy rotation placed heavy minutes and strain on Billups and if the frontcourt rotation is not expanded to include Graham, Balkman, or more Andersen Denver bigs will suffer the same fate. 38 minutes for both Martin and Nene in a loss.
by runningdonut on Dec 19, 2009 12:44 AM MST up reply actions
guard balance
chauncey, afflalo and ac excel in a half court game. smith and lawson are suited to open court and fast break style of play. it would be best to play one half court guard with an open court player as a general rule. ying and yang. opposites attract. compliment the skills instead of duplicating them. dirk nowiitzki has been a league mvp, played in the finals and started in multiple all star games. hornets used the same tactic on him. melo needed to be primarily a passer and a scorer second. dirk struggled the first time around with this double team. the second time around melo should be wiser.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
AC excels in the half-court game?
I’m completely baffled by this. In no way does AC excel in the half-court game. That would imply that he provides some sort of advantage. As we’ve seen over the course of 4 seasons, the advantage in the half-court game when AC is on the court goes to the opposition. AC’s strength is in an up-tempo game where he can dish the ball to a player on the move and not have to be counted on as a spot-up shooter. In a fast-break, the defender has to honor AC’s ability to run, pass, and finish. But in the half-court they can sag off of him, all the way down to Melo.
by NuggBuckets on Dec 19, 2009 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
i'm completly baffled why you think a 34 year old man with a bad hip is better in a full court game
ac knows how to run the half court offense. last season karl would alternate ac for smith on defense and put smith back in on offense at the end of close games. ac is the 5th guard. you want to belabor the point about half court vs. full court go ahead. i will state it another way. the most athletic (running and jumping) players out of the 5 guards are smith and lawson. that is the reason i feel their skills are more suited to an open court game. ac at 34 years old and with a chronic hip injury he has had since last season has lost a step. he is better suited for a slow down game in the half court.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Better suited for a slow game?
How about better suited for NO game
Agree with NuggBuckets
AC’s SKILLS seem more useful in an open court game. He does seem much more competent when running the break where he can either pass or lay it up. Unfortunately as nohoops4u said, he is old with a bad hip… so his athleticism cannot allow him to play to his strengths. Athleticism and skill are two very, very, very different things.
The problem with AC is that because his body doesn’t allow him to play to his skill set (up-tempo), he should have recognised this and changed his game to suit his diminishing physical attributes and created a reliable jumpshot to compliment the teams half-court game.
Not playing Afflalo on CP3. That move alone cost us the game, period. There were many things that didn’t go the Nugs way tonight, but playing a rookie on the best PG in the league is absolutely mind-boggling. There is no other way to dice it, this game was won by CP3 and Karl allowed it to happen. You can blame Melo for having a terrible night, but even when he was sitting on 3 points in the 2nd quarter we managed to build a 15 point lead. I don’t think this was really as bad of a loss as everyone is making it out to be. The Hornets are still a solid team, and are extremely hard to challenge at home, and given by now we know Karl has no idea how to use timeouts to stop runs, it shouldn’t come as a surprise how quickly we surrendered that lead.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 19, 2009 12:33 AM MST up reply actions
One more thing
We need to make it an absolute requirement to go to Nene in the post on a consistent basis from now on. His post moves are some of the best in the game and he is entirely too underrated, and underused at the moment. Not only can he garner double teams at times, which then opens up the floor and allows him to use his great passing skills to hit open men on the perimeter, but he’s probably the most efficient scorer on the Nugs right now, and we don’t even use him that often. Nene has to become a part of the game plan from here on out.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 19, 2009 12:39 AM MST up reply actions
And one last question
Why is it that we allow one player from every team we play to go off for a career night when we play them? Anybody from Rasual Butler, to Ryan Gomes, to Chris Paul seem to get off whatever they want against us. Can I ask why?
by GoldenNugget on Dec 19, 2009 12:47 AM MST up reply actions
GK doesn't do his due dilegence
Why don’’t you start a Fire George Karl Remix Blog
Butler, Gomes, Paul
Uh… one of these things is not like the other.
Anyway.. Hornets fan here… I understand the frustration with Karl for this game but honestly CP was in complete take over the game mode and I don’t know that anything would have stopped him last night. The Hornets, and CP especially, wanted this W bad.
Paul
Welcome Caleb,
Paul gets lots of credit. I also give him credit for not being in the whining/flopping mode he was in during the playoffs last year. But the loss wasn’t because the hornets offense was amazingly effect, but because of the nuggets offense and the hornets defense. Paul does lots of things well on offense, but this game was decided on the hornets defensive end of the court.
I agree
Paul was in total take over mode…BUT…Who wouldn’t be with a rookie PG guarding them? I’m not trying to take anything away from Paul, but I would bet if Afflalo played him the whole game things would have been a little bit different.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 20, 2009 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
I can't understand
why we did not force feed Nene in the second half. There were long stretches where Hornets only bigs were Songaila and James Posey. It was crazy
by runningdonut on Dec 19, 2009 12:50 AM MST up reply actions
Especially after what he did the first 5 minutes of the game
He was in total beast mode and if Karl had any sort of coaching intelligence at all he would have let everyone know during a timeout that they need to keep going to Nene.
by GoldenNugget on Dec 20, 2009 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
Not knocking AC? You should !
Game Manager? Surely you jest
Don't call him Surely!
doesn’t work so well when writing due to spelling differences. :(
Hahaha, still worked
I sure picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue
by Artimus Mangilord on Dec 19, 2009 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
atypical game requires atypical coaching - this loss is on karl
I put this loss on coach Karl for good reason. The interesting this about this game is that it was abnormal. Chauncy was injured, Melo was cold and AA was dry as a desert. KMart didn’t score in the entire first half and Nene started out dominant. All of these things are not typical. So when your team is playing differently than they usually do, you have to make adjustments as a coach. You have to keep players in who are hot and maybe bench players who are cold. So AA should come out, unless he is in only to guard CP3. Melo needed to give up the ball much more often, and JR and Ty should have seen a lot more minutes. Who knows? Maybe you start both of them in the second half? It seems like Karl was making the usual substitutions even though the game was unusual. Also, seems like the team very poorly prepared for CP3. I didn’t see any particular strategy with him. No AA lockdown, no double teams… I think CP3 likes to distribute early, the shoot later. That’s exactly what he did to a Nuggets team that cannot settle for .500 on the road. That’s an excuse. The Lakers would never say that and for us to win a championship, we have to go into every game prepared to win.
Nuggets are the better team, even without Chauncey
I agree with everyone on here, especially Nate. I thought his write-up/analysis was dead on. If you didn’t catch the game, all you need to know is the 2 stats:
Denver’s Bench vs New Orleans’ Bench: 43-13
Denver’s Starters vs New Orlean’s Starters: 49-85
49 points from the starters?!
GK obviously had a hard time grasping this and refused to leave the bench players in the game during that pivotal 4th quarter.
I said prior to this game, it will be interesting to see how the Nuggets play without CB. Obviously the main difference with CB out was Anthony Carter. To repeat from above, he was -18 for the game.
That’s trrble (Barkley voice).
i never put much stock in the plus minus stat
ac was -18. melo was -19, kmart was -14 and nene was -10. you want to use the plus minus stat there you go. kmart had 13 rebounds and nene had 10 rebounds. how you can be minus anything when you are getting 10+ rebounds in an nba game i will never understand. melo needs to decide if he wants to play in the nba finals or be the nba scoring champion. if he was not going to give up the ball right away when he was double teamed denver was going to struggle offensively. in the 2nd quarter when denver took the lead melo was on the bench and the nuggets were in a 3 guard offense. hornets stopped their double team without melo in the game. at this point do you keep melo on the bench or put him back in the game. hornets double team had 2 effects. first it made it difficult for melo to score and it disrupted denver’s offense. lawson is a good player. he has not been around the nba a single time yet. this is his first time going against chris paul. statistically denver’s 4 guards combined exceeded what they produce when billups plays. melo chose to be a scorer instead of a passer. when denver’s entire starting front line is deep in the minus category (melo -19 ac -18), how do jump to the conclusion ac was the difference? your plus minus stats not mine.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
It wasn't just AC
But he was a big part. The negative on the whole starting unit was because of the presence of both A.C. and Afflalo. This allowed an easy double on Anthony and for the rest of the defense to pack the lane. Cutters couldn’t get open off the double because everyone was in the lane. When Anthony would kick it out to A.C. or Afflalo for the shot, they were missing. Anthony would have had 10-15 assists last night if he had anyone who could make a shot when he passed out of the double.
agree it wasn't just ac
i posted at 3:11 pm on the game preview and thread that melo was getting double teamed. hornets played dallas twice this season and used the same tactic on dirk. hornets were going to double melo no matter who was in the game. look at the line up in the second quarter when melo came back into the game. i think it was 5 minutes to go. earl, ty,melo, nene and andersen. that is when they closed to within 6 at the half from a 15 point deficit. the key was for melo to give up the ball as soon as he caught it. that is not my opinion. that is what dirk nowitzki said himself. the first time dallas played new orleans he had 13 points and dallas lost in overtime. the second time they played dirk had 10 points and dallas won by 4 points. the 2nd game dirk gave up the ball as soon as he caught it. when melo held the ball it gave the hornets a chance to rotate their defense. melo QUICKLY passes out of the double team nawlins defense has not adjusted yet. there are very few secrets in the nba. the few secrets that do exist do not stay that way for very long. which came first the chicken or the egg? hornets were double teaming melo no matter who was in the game just like they doulbled dirk. denver needs to work on the melo double team because now every team in the nba will copy the hornets game plan.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
“I’ve played with guys who dominate the ball and sometimes you start to refuse to cut because you know you wont see the ball and that could be what some of the Nuggets think, but at the same time there is no excuse for players to stand around or for Melo to hold the ball as much as he does. "
I think you really nailed it here. When Melo dominates the ball and plays selfishly, you can see the other player’s emotion and effort go down. Kmart and Nene, in particular, lose their intensity when Melo is playing one-on-five ball, which he seems to do on the road at times. This team plays best when Melo moves the ball and gets others involved. I would argue that no other intangible impacts the Nuggets success more than whether or not Melo is playing team ball or not.
i ussually never blame the coach,
but this one is mostly his fault, he kept lawson out of the game, Jr should have played more, he ran no plays (like ussual) but it was more obvious bcuz melo missed the shots he normally makes, he should have to told the team to get nene, ty and jr involved, also he failed to call a time out when the hornets had their run (like when minny beat us), very frustrating
what i would like to see, is with billups in street clothes act like an assistant coach, show his leadership… from what i saw (not much had to watch theNO broadcast) billups didnt say a word
What we need
Is to start a ‘Get rid of AC’ blog so he can leave and Karl can stop patting AC on the butt
NFL Network
I know ads pay for the site, but the current layout is really irritating. I use the scroll on my mouse to move up and down the page. To do so, you must first click on the page, then you can scroll. The black bars, which say nothing, on both sides of the page have been converted to ads for NFL network. It’s really annoying to get constant ads if I’m not super careful with the mouse.
This game would have been different if
AA & JR hadn’t gone 0-9 behind the 3 point line.
Melo had made better decisions with the ball
CP3 hadn’t played crazy good in the 2nd half. He made some ridiculous buckets/plays
very true
not knocking down those open 3s is killer. And i’m talking OPEN. Gotta hit those. Totally changes the momentum of the game
hornets rank #5 in 3 point shot attempts
nawlins made 8 of 19 3 point shots. stojakovic went 4 of 8. no mystery perimeter defense was a priority. that is 24 points with a final margin of victory being 6 points. it does not matter if it is chris paul or kobe bryant they cannot score or hand out assists WHEN THEY DO NOT HAVE THE BALL. one place they do not have the ball is on defense. denver executes the offense part time and half ass when they do. going 3 of 16 from the 3 point line and allowing the hornets 24 points from behind the arc are 2 areas that cost denver the game.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Karl not the one shooting the ball.
Someone players have off games and when it happens to multiple players on the same night and theres a key player out of the game entirely theres a good chance the team doesn’t perform like it usually does.
by InboundingLobPass on Dec 19, 2009 5:20 PM MST reply actions
BS
Karl isn’t shooting the ball however he is responsible for who’s in the game shooting the ball.
As previously mentioned AC and AA should not have been on the floor at the same time. This was foreseen two days ago when CB1 first got injured. For Karl not to realize this is evident that he doesn’t do the due diligence that is required in order to be successful against teams. Even when there is a road map to follow Mr Intelligent can’t find his head from his ass. The bench should have played more since they were effective
Karl doesn’t shoot the ball, Karl doesn’t pass the ball, Karl isn’t on the floor until there’s a TO. Your rationalization leads me to ask why do the Nuggets or any team need a coach?
Man...
JR and Lawson didn’t have an off night, we were winning with them, going up by 15 at one point. Those players didn’t see more time than AC and Afflalo who were way off all night long. If players did not go through ups and downs then you wouldn’t need a highly paid head coach to manage them, it could be done by the general manager. I agree with your logic but at some point you have to accept the fact that George Karl doesn’t win with his best players and if the team is winning a certain way George Karl will go against it and slam his head against the wall 99 times in a row to prove he is right even if that decision results in a loss. GK doesn’t win with his best players, it’s no secret why we can’t win on the road or fight through these injuries to maintain a winning attitude. It’s hard enough to win on the road but when you are injured and George Karl is coaching it’s not a fair fight for the Nuggets.
There is a reason GK is being evaluated and ownership is extremely weary of giving him an extension.
by runningdonut on Dec 19, 2009 7:12 PM MST up reply actions
GK didn't lose this game for us
But show me anything he did that gave us the best chance to win
by runningdonut on Dec 19, 2009 7:15 PM MST up reply actions
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