Sizing up two bad losses...
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 9, 2009 7:55 AM MST
in News and Opinion
41 comments
Every loss is a bad loss, but some are worse than others. Notably the two we just witnessed...
First off, sorry if I've been a bit MIA lately but I've been traveling on business throughout the weekend to my current location by way of Las Vegas. And no, I didn't bet on the Nuggets on either Friday or Saturday night (and I didn't bet on the Heat or the Hawks, either, I'm not a Benedict Arnold). Saturday's game in particular was a downer as I was sitting in the sports book with the most diverse collection of Nuggets fans you'll ever meet, including a number of teenagers from China who were huge Carmelo Anthony fans but definitely weren't old enough to be in there. So if you see some commenting that's somewhat unintelligible, it might be from some Chinese teenagers I met in Vegas, so please go easy on them.
Where were we? Oh, right, two straight losses. Bad losses.
Readers of this blog know I'm all about principle over results. Meaning, the Nuggets could go 0-82 for all I care, as long as they play the right way. (Well, I'd care a little if they went 0-82 but at least they'd have a record. The most disappointing part of the 1997-98 Nuggets season was that they actually won 11 games, three too many to secure their place in NBA lore but still less than the Broncos won that year.)
The recent 8-point loss at Miami (and it was never that close) and the 25-point debacle at Atlanta aren't push-the-panic-button worthy but should certainly be concerning to Nuggets fans. When you lose that badly back-to-back it means the team was either a) unprepared, b) was prepared but the players didn't listen (meaning they weren't prepared, I guess) or, c) the team was prepared, the players listened but several (read: everyone but Chauncey Billups probably) went out all night in Miami the night before the Heat game and then doubled their pleasure by partying in some Atlanta clubs the following night given that the Miami-to-Atlanta flight is only an hour and a half long. I'm guessing it's the latter option as no team should be this flat this early into the season, tough road trip or not, even sans Kenyon Martin and J.R. Smith.
After their disastrous performance against the Hawks, Nuggets head coach George Karl delivered one of his patented CYA (cover your ass) quotes: "Anytime you go on a six-game road trip, if you can win half your games or more, it's a great success, and we have a chance of doing it." Since when is losing half your games and getting a split against the mediocre (at best) Bulls and the depleted Bucks considered a "great success"? Really? You could argue that you did what you were supposed to do, but I wouldn't call it anything near a "success".
I think Karl is missing the point, so we'll go back to that whole "bad losses" thing. How many games you win or lose on this or any other road trip ultimately won't matter if the game isn't being played the right way. The Nuggets won 50 games in 2007-08 playing the wrong way and got humiliated in the playoffs (remember, in the NBA you just have to win 75% of your home games and 50% of your road games to win 50 games). Last season was the complete opposite and we were all enormously proud of the results. And thus, what Karl should be saying is something like: "we disrespected the game of basketball on Friday and Saturday night, we didn't play like professionals, I won't tolerate this and, for now on, when we travel to a fun destination I'm locking all the players in their rooms for the night and the fire marshall can sue me."
Going back to 2007-08, the Nuggets have lost three straight at Atlanta and one-of-three at Miami. But one of those victories at Miami came against the 15-win Heat in overtime which the Nuggets won by a point and former Nugget Mark Blount posted an 18/13 on us. (It should be noted that the Nuggets won routinely at Miami and Atlanta before Allen Iverson arrived. Meaning A.I. probably took his teammates out to the best possible night clubs in those cities when they played together and now they can't resist going back.)
So blame the travel, the missing players, the possibility of clubbing, Karl's lack of a sense of urgency (I don't blame him, it's early), whatever you want. And yes, we need to move on, put these losses in the rear view mirror and start winning games again. All I ask is that we - the fans, the players and the coach - not be blind to the fact that these weren't just losses, but exceptionally bad, poorly executed, sleeping-on-the-job losses.
Luckily for us, Milwaukee's night scene sucks...especially on a Tuesday.
Photo courtesy of AP: Gregory Smith
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night clubbing? NIGHTCLUBBING!!???
Can’t these guys just get call girls like normal out-of-town businessmen?
Nightclubbing you see them before you, um, you know
Call girling is a bit different.
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
Another benefit
To me, they don’t have as much potential to get in trouble with the law if they’re in their rooms entertaining.
People who don’t care don’t respond, and people who do care do respond. Does that make sense Bronco fans trying to validate the trade?
Not questioning your reporting credentials or anything, Andrew, but
Do you have any sources that show that the team actually WAS out late on the night of the trip from Miami to the dirty? Even a quote from a trainer or source that says “Yeah, the team was out late, and didn’t get a lot of rest”? It seems a little disingenuous to say something like that without any real evidence yet cite it as a reason for the loss in Atlanta.
I’m not saying it DIDN’T happen, but I am more of the mind that 7 games (5 away) in 11 days is one of the reasons why they dropped the last two. Chauncey is also clearly not 100% after turning his ankle, and Melo has had two off nights.
I’m giving the Nuggets the benefit of the doubt and saying they were on weary, banged-up legs for these last two games and ran into two teams playing good ball. I expect them to bounce back and rattle off at least two wins in a row. Keep in mind that they again have 3 games in 4 days.
Swats.
I wouldn't put it past Melo there Beefy
I am thinking of changing my name from Gasus to BeefyStinks in your honor. I am not trying to insult you, I just think BeefyStinks would be really funny. I am not saying you stink or anything I just think it would be really funny and I thought I should give you a heads up.
Melo has been immature for years. I imagine he loves going out and getting hammered before games just so he can laugh at the rest of the world. He can go get blasted then put up 30 and look absolutely terrible doing it.
I didnt get to watch the 2 games.
So I dont know how bad the team looked. I’m just hoping Kmart is all right. JR being back will help Carmelo tremendously with the offense tho.
If you didn't watch them, you're lucky
I don’t even know how many swear words I flung out there during the second halves of both games. I’d put the over/under at 500, but ti could be more…
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
This is a simple question
of Professionalism and Pride.
And while I am equally as dissapointed that the coaching staff appeared ill prepared for both of these games, my dissapointment in the commitment of the players is of greater concern. I don’t care if they were out all night. What I do care about is playing defense on the road and staying in touch until late in the 4th quarter. Neither happened.
This reminds me of the Celtics in the 1980’s when Red Aurbach suggested that the team was playing “I got mine, you got yours” defense and “give it to Larry” offense. And until they return to fundamental basketball; moving the ball, rotating and helping on defense, rebounding and moving their damned feet, they will continue to play inconsistent basketball.
OK. Now I feel better.
Those Celtics teams were epic
The ‘10s will be remembered as the Denver Nuggets’ decade if the players will put 100% focus every single game. If not, then they might as well play me. I probably won’t shoot that well with 6’8" people guarding me, but I’ll play for free, put 110% effort, and not turn the ball over AC-style…
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
Something puzzles me.
Why does everyone hate AC and love Balkman?
I understand the first part but not the second. I enjoy a hustle guy as much as the next guy and have given RB the benefit of the doubt, but the sad truth is that he is not good and shouldn’t see the light of day. His game is tough to watch and when he gets in, he disrupts eveyone’s flow. Sorry Ronaldo, your butt needs to be on the bench unless we are up by 20 in the 4th.
On the other hand, if RB would practive threes day in/day out and then hit them when open in the game….we could use that guy….and I do like his salary.
Balkman's not skilled but he makes things happen on the court.
hustle plays are his redeeming quality. AC has no redeeming quality. he’s a complete liability on both ends of the court. there’s nothing he does well.
by Rainbow skyline on Nov 9, 2009 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
I find Balkman utterly unimpressive as well
Dude puts up two good games on the boards last season and people are acting like he is the basketball messiah. He is where he belongs, warming the bench.
You got jokes!
Balkman was very effective every time he stepped on the court last year. In his first real action he didn’t do much this year but that is because he was hung over along with the rest of the team.
What?
Atlanta owns us in Atlanta, 2-18 past twenty games in the ATL. So we been losing there since well before AI meaning you just hate Allen Iverson, and we lost by 8 to Miami not 12. Maybe if Chauncey would have scored more then 6 points we could have won, but no mention of how terrible he played or how our bench worked Miami’s starting line up in the 4th to keep us in the game? And we where in that games despite starting the 4th down by 22 and i for one liked it that Karl left those guys in to finish the game. This is a very pathetic post with a completely biased and fascist viewpoint.
Fascist and Biased huh?
LOL, go back to germany with remarks like that. LOL!
About the clubbing...
Hi Guys,
I think some of you took my inference about the players POSSIBLY clubbing a bit too literally (I was just being hypothetical, not pretending to be a report) so I’ve tweaked the post a bit to me more clear there…
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 9, 2009 2:41 PM MST reply actions
Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
Just thought you might want to know what you called him. Either you don’t know the meaning of the words you are using, or you do know and you intentionally called him a brutal, racist, dictator.
I like the "brutal, dictator" title...but I'll pass on "racist"
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 9, 2009 4:11 PM MST up reply actions
Seriously, the Fascism thing was overdone
We don’t need hyperbole. And I’m sure GK still reads this website every now and then…
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
Good blog post, Andrew
I shared your speculation about the clubbing. I don’t know what happened this year, but I’ve heard the Melo and Wade have partied plenty while the Nuggets were in town in years past. Seeing how they played Friday, it looked to me like a team that was out late.
And against Atlanta, I thought the Nuggets played much better the first two quarters. Atlanta was motivated to play well at home after being embarrassed the night before. But it looked like fatigue kicked in and the Nuggs just gave up.
PS: what is up with the accusations of racism coming out of nowhere?
designated driver
i hope balkman had cab fare.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
It starts at the top
It should be clear to everyone that the Nuggets ignored signs of trouble during their 5-game winning streaks, including the terrible choice of starting lineup and inconsistent effort on D. Defensively the Nuggets were bad against the Nets and the Pacers, those teams just couldn’t shoot for shit. The bench rotation is a mess, GK is now flipping coins before the game to decide a starting lineup because he has no answers at the first sign of trouble. These issues should have been worked out during preseason but, weren’t. It’s early, but you can blame Karl, and AC whom we have got nothing out of all year.
I can somewhat understand GK's biased willingness to play AC
Here’s what it is:
GK’s been watching too many of AC’s college tapes from when he was at the University of Hawaii.
My friend gave me about an hour or so of AC tapes from back then (I think it was like 97-98 or something) and AC ABSOLUTELY killed. After watching that, I feel kinda surprised he went undrafted.
But ‘Nuff said, this AC is very different from that AC. THis AC doesn’t have the crazy athleticism, and maybe it’s the lower level of defense in college, but it seems as if he doesn’t have the jumper, either, but he still overshoots it. He turns it over too much these days, but a lot of that probably stems from him still thinking that he can still zip to the rim and fire those bullet passes even though those usually result in turnovers nowadays….
"I always believe there's a reason why you go through everything." -John Elway
Did the Atlanta loss show K-Mart's value?
Would the Nugs have gotten thumped by the Hawks as badly if K-Mart were in the line-up to whack J. Smith as he came down the lane?
by Pusherman on Nov 9, 2009 4:32 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Not a chance
You should look at the Nugs record last year without Kenyon. Their record without Melo was much better than without Kmart.
Yes it did show his value
My title for the last post may have been a bit misleading…
In other words...
They are pretty soft without K-Mart. Salary and occassional temper tantrum aside, the man offers a lot of upside to this team.
let us review
2nd quarter of the miami game the score was tied at 33. kmart got hurt and things fell apart. this demonstrates what kmart brings to the court. melo wants to win AND OR be the mvp he needs to rebound. that is why graham got the start in atlanta was because kmart was out. denver needs rebounding from the guard position at all times. the keys for denver to win are REBOUNDING, FREE THROWS AND EXECUTING THE HALF COURT OFFENSE. look at the big picture. denver is 5 and 2, first place in the division. kleiza is gone, jr was suspended and 2 players on the bench stepped up to nearly fill the 25 ppg void. all in all not a bad way to start the season under the circumstances.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Maybe a curfew should be put in place
But hey these guys do need to pick up some trim at the clubs. Hos in different area codes son.
All I know is...
Atlanta is a black mans heaven. IJS (I’m just sayin). That’s no racist shit or anything, I just know that the finest of the fine black women hail from the ATL and I love me some black women ta boot. But I have zero chance with my scrawny white ass in that town. ATL is great though… a lot of people don’t think so but I love the dirty dirty.
i have never been to atlanta
i always thought denver has the finest of the finest black women in the whole world. they are also the smartest, generous, greatest cooks and are the best at driving a car too. i’m just sayin’.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
the 2 losses were definitely poor and the team was flat but…….i think without JR and Klieza in the line up our perimeter game is fairly ordinary. Opposition teams can double melo , block the lanes and only really have to worry about chauncy on the perimeter. lets see how we go with JR back . unfortunately Kleiza is not coming back and we need another to step up from 3 point land.
It's early
Very disappointing, but GK is right. If they can go at least .500 on a tough eastern road trip, then it’s a success no matter what time of year.
People who don’t care don’t respond, and people who do care do respond. Does that make sense Bronco fans trying to validate the trade?
Sorry... I don't agree
Regardless of whether or not that is true, you don’t want the head coach making excuses like that for unacceptable performance. Especially for a young team that is trying to follow up success with a little more consistency.
Good teams win on the road, they don’t aim for .500 and they certainly don’t make excuses for getting blown out twice in a row badly. George Karl is a weak willed leader, he has a mentality to be just good enough and set the expectations low enough to have a cushion against criticism for underachieving. A strong coach would have taken the full blame for those 2 deflating losses. At the very least he would have tried motivating the players to be critical of themselves rather than making excuses about injuries or being on the road. The Nugs aren’t playing a top 4 team in the West anymore, and GK couldn’t give a shit as long as they win half their games on the road. I;m glad you support that and lowered your expectations accordingly.
Isn't it entirely possible...
…that Miami and Atlanta are actually two pretty good teams?
I mean they are 5-1 and 5-2 respectively. The Nuggs were on a long road trip, and the Atlanta loss was expected as it was the second of a back to back.
I guarantee if the East Coast trip had been Charlotte and New York, there would be two wins and we’d still be 7-0.
Give a little credit where it’s due. Denver will be fine. It has nothing to do with clubbing or lack of preparation or KMart being out or anything.
Just lost two very loseable road games to improved East teams.
by 12-piece Nuggets on Nov 10, 2009 10:54 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Nice call 12-piece Nuggets! The Heat and Hawks may turn some heads as the season wears on ...
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Nov 10, 2009 2:00 PM MST up reply actions
12 piece is onto something
Yes, I was a little surprised by the Mia-Atl back to back results. However, both teams had something to prove. The Nuggs had won the last 4 games in Miami, usually before heading to Orlando on a back to back. I always remember who beats us at home and want some revenge on those teams. Atlanta was coming off from a 20 point loss at Charlotte, and the Nuggs were 2-4 in their last 6 games there (most of those poor, non-playoff Hawks teams). Now the Hawks are up to 6th in Mark Stein’s power rankings, which I think are fair and reasonable assessments. Chalk it up as a 2 game hiccup in a long season.
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