Meadowlands Massacre in reverse... (Nuggets/Nets Recap)
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 4, 2009 8:09 PM MST
in Game Recaps
74 comments
Between tonight's 28-point victory at the Izod Center and last season's 25-point win over the Nets at Pepsi Center, I'd say the Nuggets have properly avenged last February's debacle in New Jersey.
The Nets are one of the NBA's worst teams with All-Star point guard Devin Harris in the lineup. Without Harris (as they were forced to play tonight), they're a slight step above an NBDL team. For the Nuggets to win by 28 in spite of Carmelo Anthony having a horrid shooting night, it tells us that our Nuggets are either this good or the Nets are this bad. It's probably a bit of both.
In my recap of the Nuggets opening night win over the Jazz, I mentioned how the NBA will be made up of "haves" and "have nots" this season. But it's broader than that. The Nets - like their losing predecessors in Indiana last night - aren't just bad, but they're broke and cheap like nine or so other struggling franchises. Just another casualty of a worldwide financial crisis and poor (literally and figuratively) ownership. Take Bobby Simmons amazingly high $10.5 million contract off their books and the Nets entire roster combined would cost the same as having Carmelo Anthony, Kenyon Martin, Chauncey Billups and Nene.
What this game got me thinking tonight is that we might see one of the greatest disparities in recent memory between the records of the good teams with stable ownership (the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, Cavaliers, Spurs, Nuggets...thank you thank you Stan Kroenke) and these shoddy outfits in New Jersey, Indiana, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Charlotte and so on. In other words, if you thought the Nuggets had an easy time last season feasting on sub-.500 teams, this season could be even easier.
Or...another thought...are the Nuggets just this good? Do the additions of Ty Lawson and Arron Afflalo in particular, combined with the substantial upgrade in play by Carmelo Anthony, make the Nuggets even better than last season in spite of the dire financial situation affecting 30% of their opposition? Considering that the Nuggets are 5-0 with two pairs of back-to-back wins under their belts already and J.R. Smith hasn't even stepped onto the floor yet, it's fair to ask, wonder and dream about what could come of all this. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves until the Nuggets start racking up road wins like this against real NBA teams.
(Speaking of Afflalo, he's clearly getting more comfortable in the Nuggets "system" and I'm perplexed as to why he's not starting yet. Anthony Carter hasn't hurt us through five games, but I'd argue that he hasn't helped much either. With Afflalo kicking off games, at least we'd be playing five-on-five on the defensive end.)
Unlike last season when the Nuggets stepped onto the Izod Center floor and forgot to play basketball altogether, they handled tonight's game (second half anyway) like the pro's they're supposed to be night in and night out.
And we're all better off for it.
Photo courtesy of AP: Mel Evans
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AC hasn't hurt us through 5 games
Andrew you have to explain this one because I’ve seen the argument made a few times now. How is him being burnt on multiple possessions not hurting us in the first half?
Bleed Blue and Gold
by MileHighMonsters on Nov 4, 2009 8:21 PM MST reply actions
Wasn't expecting the bench
to be this good so far. I agree, Afflalo should probably be starting over AC. I guess if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Regardless, JR will be hogging a lot of the time very soon.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
finding different ways to win
denver is showing versatility with this win. the worse case scenario melo and billups combined for 1 of 16 from the field in the first half and denver wins easily. afflalo kept denver in the game in the first half along with nene and kmart. another 15 points on consecutive games. afflalo is making the decision to start jr an easy one if he can keep it up.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Nate . .
I know what regardless means, but what does irregardless mean again . . .without regardless?
From Wikipedia
Irregardless is a term meaning in spite of or anyway, that has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. It is generally listed in dictionaries as “incorrect” or “nonstandard”.
Much of the criticism comes from the illogical double negative pairing of the prefix (ir-) and suffix (-less), and the argument that irregardless is not, or should not be, a word at all because it lacks the antecedents of a “bona fide nonstandard word.”
Reminded me of this link
by snafu on Nov 4, 2009 10:21 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The number of errors in English that occur on this blog, as well as virtually any place on the internet that invites comment from the masses, is of such magnitude that you could make correcting them a full time job if that was what you wanted to do with your time.
It’s routine to see “your” where it should be “you’re” (I’ve seen it once on this page already), “there” where it should be "their’ or “they’re” and the one that really strikes me as odd is the ones that use “then” where they should use “than”. One has to wonder why people with such deficient writing skills insist on putting them on display for the whole world to see and then expect everyone to respect what they have written.
I strongly recommend to everyone the following site:
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
This site's grammar...
Hi All,
Nate and I try our best to keep the grammar and spelling on this blog up to par, but we certainly make more than a handful of mistakes. Often, when you’re writing a lengthy piece you miss all kinds of stuff, so we’ve begun to edit each other which helps a lot. Frankly, we – like all “writers” – could use a real editor and/or a proof reader but we just don’t have those resources yet. Moreover, given that we try to expeditiously write our columns (especially game recaps and columns on breaking news), having an editor and/or proof reader would slow that process down.
We do, however, fix grammar and spelling errors when you guys point them out and we appreciate you continuing to do so.
But maybe if you guys buy enough Denver Stiffs T-Shirts we can afford a real proof reader some day?!
Thanks as always for following the blog so closely, even when we screw up…
All best,
Andrew
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 5, 2009 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
Here here!
I do hate when things slip through the cracks, but I know one of you trusty (or Thursty) readers will catch it and we’ll get it fixed ASAP … the days of having an editor (in college) were nice.
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
hahaha...
….“maybe if you guys buy enough Denver Stiffs T-Shirts” hahaha…Nice.
by GottaLoveMelo on Nov 5, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually you are one of the better writers, but you do have a few strange ones crop up here and there. I think both you and Nate tend to have a little difficulty with homonyms. If you really want to keep your writing up to par as far as spelling and gammar, you could go to the trouble of writing your posts in MS Word and use the spell and grammar checker there, then copy and paste to the blog.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
Writing and typing skills are a little different . . .
Heaven forbid, I should throw stones since I live in a fully shattered glass house, but the misuse of irregardless and ironic amuses me. A weird weakness. The rest is up to you Thursty.
JR not starting
Hopefully, Karl’s decision to not start JR when he comes back, doesn’t mean that AC will continue starting. As long as AC is on this team, he is going to get minutes. Unless he starts at SG for his “defense”, he doesn’t really have a place coming off the bench, with Ty handling primary backup PG now. If AC continues to start, it will create a log jam with JR/Afflalo/Ty all coming off the bench, unless JR spends a lot of time at SF.
So there’s only a couple options:
1) Continue starting a short point who can’t shoot at SG, and have an inconsistent rotation involving three high impact players
2) Start JR/ Afflalo start at SG, and have the other play mainly with Ty, with AC playing inconsistent minutes
One involves inconsistent minutes for three players, and the other involves limiting a lot of AC’s minutes.
intergrating jr into the line up
when the nba first announced jr’s suspension and somebody told me denver would start the season 5 wins and 2 losses, i never would have believed it. THIS IS NOW THE WORSE CASE SCENARIO. the best way to work jr into the line up when he first comes back is to start ac at the beginning of the game and jr at the beginning of the third quarter. the only problem jr will have when he gets back is he will be so jacked up and sky high to be back on the court he will have a hard time staying under control. the atlanta game will show the limitations of ac in the starting line up. denver had a major problem with the hawk’s length last season at every position. jamal crawford can come off the bench and play both guard positions.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Yeah, I was just thinking about that now
The Atlanta game is going to be really tough, and I expect the problem of AC in the starting lineup will get seriously exposed. The big guards they have are going to have a field day with him, the only player AC is suited to guard is Bibby. Plus they are really athletic, offensively talented and if we get into a running game like we did with Memphis it won’t be an easy win. It really would be nice to have JR for that game.
by runningdonut on Nov 5, 2009 12:10 AM MST up reply actions
denver hits the wall in atlanta
they have a good chance to win in miami as long as denver plays their A game from the start. 6 and 1 for jr’s suspension. atlanta will be the tail end of the 2nd back to back. with jr back for chicago and milwaukee it is realistic for them to win both. 8 and 1 to start the season and winning 5 of 6 for the first extended road trip. i’ll take that anytime.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Dont overlook Miami.
If AC starts that means he is gonna guard Dwade…Dwade will drop 50 on us is AC is guarding him. Doesnt mean they will win…but its gonna make it hella hard on us
by GottaLoveMelo on Nov 5, 2009 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
solid win
on yet another back to back. Crazy how back to back games work huh LA?
Big fan of the new stiff list, I despise Dan Hawkins
by buffs15 on Nov 4, 2009 9:03 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
It was good to see Najera tonight
I wish he and Dahntay Jones had better teams to play for rather than be stuck in these NBA sinkholes?
How did the Nets get so bad? Didn’t they receive 98 1st round draft choices from the Kenyon Martin deal?
by margabelle on Nov 4, 2009 9:34 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
The rotation
I think Carter (who I think has played decently, despite his defensive ineptitude against PTL and SLC) is holding JR’s spot, when he comes back. I argue this for two reasons:
1.) You can tell, by the offense being run, that the shooting guard position will have a LOT of open shots. Carter is wide open on just about every offensive possession right now and teams will pay if that open player is JR Smith.
2.) They need JR’s size and athletic ability to defend starting SG’s in this league. While there are a lot of 6’0"+ guys who can get it done against backups, the Nuggets need all of JR’s 6’6" to get it done versus the elite at the position.
I also think we’re going to start seeing a lot of Lawson and Afflalo on the court together at the same time. They’re both so incredibly fast, Karl won’t be able to resist that tandem for his second team. Combine them with a small frontcourt, consisting of Anderson at 5, Balkman/Graham at 4, and some combination of JR or AC filling out a third guard spot, and that’s really dangerous. They’ll run teams out of the gym, scrap for every ball.
About your first point
I have a feeling that AC is open all the time because he’s AC. No one is scared of him. Once JR comes back, I’d imagine the defenses will take a different approach. If they don’t, they will pay, just like you said. Then, things could get really fun.
Also, I agree about Lawson and Afflalo out there together. Those two were fun tonight.
I'm afraid
Once JR comes back, AC moves back to the bench, which, knowing Karl’s love of AC, means less minutes for Lawson. I really hope this is not the case. If Lawson’s 23 pts on 9-10 shooting, 4 rebs, 2 assists, and 1 steal, in less then 28 mins, in the 5th game of his NBA career don’t show that he deserves the backup point guard spot over AC, then I don’t know what will. (That may have been a run-on sentence.)
But man, I’m pumped to see what this team does with JR in the rotation. Last year proved that he can be an above average-to-great defender when he puts his mind to it, and we all know he is a stud offensively. How will teams stop us? Double team Carmelo and you get killed by Billups and JR on the outside, with Nene and Kenyon down low. Don’t double team Carmelo, and say hello to getting 40 dropped on you. Every player on the starting five could easily give you 20 points on any given night. That is scary! Plus, Lawson, Afflalo, and the Bird coming off the bench. How could people seriously overlook this team? To quote Will Ferrell, that is totally mind-bottling.
Really enjoy watching Afflalo and Lawson play together
They both bring a great dynamic and intensity level to the team. I know that Karl says JR won’t start initially but how long do you think it takes for him to get the job?
I think Afflalo is coming off the bench right now to help the second unit (both offense and defense). With JR back, I foresee Afflalo starting, with JR backing him up, a la Dahntay/JR’s rotation last year.
That means Ty will have to battle for minutes with AC, who it seems can do no wrong in Karl’s eyes. I’ve decided every time AC does something good, he gets one point for ‘keeping the job’, while everything he does wrong is for ‘losing the job’. I’m hoping he score more points for the latter.
You really think JR is coming off the bench?
Afflalo is a great defender, but not that good. Not quite as annoying and shutdown as dauntay. And the main reason that JR didn’t start last season was that Karl didn’t trust him. I think he does now. Which I believe because of Karl’s quote that JR is going to be an all star this year. All star’s don’t typically come off the bench.
Karl said that JR will come off the bench, at least initially
And you are putting way too much credit in Dahntay’s ability to defend. I’ll concede that Afflalo doesn’t rub his junk up against the offensive player, but that doesn’t mean he’s not as good of a defender. Dahntay defended well as long as the refs call a loose game. If he’s defending Kobe, Dahntay fouls out in about 10 minutes of play. Remember?
Afflalo is much quicker than Dahntay and knows his lines. I think you’ll be very impressed with his defensive ability. He’s also not a liability on the offensive end. We got a steal with Afflalo.
Nope
Afflalo looks so smooth doing it, too. Kleiza was just such a savant — not a natural basketball player. He’d have some amazing nights, but more often than not, he’d take too many awful looking shots and be completely absent from the defensive side of the floor.
Agreed, Afflalo has been just as good as Kleiza at
a much better price. plus he can actually guard so people.
Yes, but it doesn’t look like anyone has filled LK’s role of firing lasers off the front rim from 3 point range.
by snafu on Nov 4, 2009 10:25 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
ace in the hole
wally scabeezak is still available. keep this info under your hat. denver does not want this to become common knowledge. i would hate for another team to get him first.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Check out Running Donuts "FanShot" (below on the right hand column of the "Home" page) ...
He’s got an article up talking about doctors advising Wally to retire b/c of knee issues.
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
Technically Afflalo plays in place of Dahntay.
Afflalo is a 2-guard, LK was a small forward. I miss LK.
graham's last game
he had 9 points and 4 rebounds. lk’s stat line from last season was 9.9 ppg and 4.1 rpg. joey had 5 free throws and 2 field goals. lk liked shooting the 3 point shot too much. it streched the defense but getting the other team in foul trouble is better in the long run.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
I'll agree that LK didn't have his best year last year
But he’s still young and showed that he could be a versatile small forward. He could get to the rim and shoot the three and was great at leaking out to get easy baskets on the fast break. Obviously some of that was because he was absolutely terrible on the defensive end…. but I still hold out hope that LK will come back from his european vacation in one or two years and be a contributor.
kmart's contract
expires at the same time lk’s greek deal does. kleiza can play the 2,3 +4 positions on the court. the big thing is last season jr averaged 15 points and lk 10 points off the bench. it looks like denver has that point production covered if graham and afflalo keep producing.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Me too
LK had a lot of mental stuff to deal with.
He was always the subject of trade rumors.
I think he didn’t feel if he was part of the team when AI was here.
The Ron Artest thing and the fact that the FO withdrew his big contract played with his mind.
LK was one of the Nugs to really step it up in the playoffs . .
II don’t think the Nugs could have had a better financial outcome than having LK off in Greece, but I do think they will miss his board work and I am perfectly happy to bring him back in two years.
LK PER in the playoff was 18.4 last year and 15.4 the year before. Bears mentioning that in the really important games he was not a player who shied away from the game.
Wierd facts world: Did you realize he was included in the Webster / Deron Willams trade. . .part of the reason Portland is stuck with Blake and Miller @ PG instead of D-Will.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kleizli01.html
AC actually drained a crucial three pointer in Portland… but for every good play, he has 3-4 other bad plays… or I wouldn’t call it bad plays, I would call it plays that other NBA players would be able to do, but in his case, he can’t because he’s either old or he just doesn’t have the skills in the first place.
I would still start Afflalo.
Reminds me
..of my son. “Daddy, der is not a word.” My son has a tough time with the "Th"s ..i.e. “there”
Go Nugs.
Great outcome on the back-to-back . . .
but I hope the slow starts are done for a while because Miami and Atlanta aren’t going to roll-over for us in the 2nd half. Wish JR was back for the next two.
AC Starting
Before the year started, I thought it would be ridiculous if JR did not start when he returned from his suspension. However, I now am OK with JR coming off the bench. This is because with Ty Lawson’s uncanny ability to penetrate into the lane, this will open up a lot of 3’s for JR on the perimeter. Also, watching Lawson, Afflalo, Bird & JR play together will be really fun and I don’t see teams being able to keep up with them. They will be the fastest team up and down the court in the league. They will tear up the opponents reserves.
With JR starting, he isn’t going to get the shots he needs/deserves. With AC starting, Karl is happy because he can play AC. I don’t want to see AC playing in the 2nd unit because then Lawson’s minutes will be significantly reduced. Also, the Nuggets have enough offensive production in the starting lineup without JR. I like the idea of JR coming off the bench and averaging 19 ppg.
Thoughts?
jr starting gives the team better balance
smith in the starting line up prevents melo from being double teamed and he does a lot of the grunt work for chauncey in the back court. the first and the second unit will have an element of speed with smith starting and lawson coming off the bench. afflalo and lawson make a great tandem and will only get better with time. the options and possibilities are limitless.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
I Like JR and Afflalo off the bench.
Which is why I like Joey Graham starting at the 2. Whenever he gets his toe straight, I like him in that postion. Then bring Ty Lawson off the bench with both JR and Afflalo, Bird, and whoever (Balkman!) or however GK rotates the bigs’ minutes.
by GottaLoveMelo on Nov 5, 2009 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
It’s kinda funny in hindsight to think I was a little concerned about this game, but I guess if I was basing it off last year’s performance I had every right. But the Nets had no answer. Very happy with Afflalo, T-Law and K-Mart last night. Most importantly I’m just happy these games aren’t coming down to one guy doing it all. Scoring depth and options around the court are really what’s going to set this team apart from others down the road. Good win, regardless of the opponent.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Who would have thought
KMart would bury as many 3’s as Chauncey and Ty would outscore Melo. Nuggs are playing great team ball. At this point, I say the chemistry the team has is better than any “Bertha” option.
Great call my man
There aren’t any options out there that would improve the team enough to risk making a move. The Nugs are gelling with the best. Only the Celitcs, Lakers, and Magic can say they have a shot a beating this team!
I would still like a big.
If one of the three get injured (or suspended, or ill) say “Au revoir!” to a win. At least, that’s what Petro will say when he shows just how absolutely terrible he is.
i think there will be a big trade
boozer, gortat and tyrus thomas of the bulls could all be moved before the trade deadline. orlando and utah prefer to limit their tax hit for the salary cap. thomas was not extended, is having problems with delnegro and did not play last game due to the flu. gortat works for me but his contract numbers are pretty high.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Let's not go overboard yet . . .
Nugs stole the Portland game on missed lay-ups and FTs and ’Melo playing fantastic . .other than that who have we beaten? A messed up Utah team, Memphis w/o A.I. but with Zach, Indiana missing 2 starters, and then NJ missing two starters. Hard to be impressed as sweet as 5-0 is until we at least outplay a few of the second teir teams and lo and behold here comes Atlanta and Miami.
Yes, but
they have also been playing without J.R., probably their second best offensive option. Have you seen the rotation when the backups are in? Who scores when both billups and anthony are resting? And they have been on back to back road games. It’s early in the season, but 5-0 is a great start, no matter who the competition. Plus, with injuries, the Lakers are looking mortal. Come playoff time, leave Karl in the locker room, and who knows.
But nothing.
I’m with you KS.
The David Stern machine obviously had enough of the Denver “Thuggets” and their impact on his TV ratings in the playoffs. Seriously; 9 games in 15 days, including 7 on the road with 4 back-to-backs, including 3 on the road. Add JR being suspended for the first 7 games. And welcome home to the Lakers. Think he was sending a message?
If they split the rest of this trip and come home 7-2, I’d say we beat the street.
I'm no conspiracy theorist
but you make a hell of a point. Those are some insane odds, but lets not all count out a clean sweep before the games are even played. Have faith in these Nugs!
Bleed Blue and Gold
by MileHighMonsters on Nov 5, 2009 5:36 PM MST up reply actions
But honestly....
I would rather have a ton of back-to-backs in the first couple months because you’re already rested. Obviously, we’ve handled them well so far.
And one thing I’ve noticed in the Nuggets games this year is that they’re very calculating. Denver didn’t play well in the Utah game, nor in the Portland game. They did just enough to win. Especially in the Portland game, with the clock running down and the Nuggets behind by 8, they didn’t panic. They created good shots (or went to the line) and defended well. In years past they would have been frantic and probably would not have won.
The trick is
to keep the road games close and steal them in the 4th quarter. If Lawson and Afflalo can keep up their production, Chanucey can play Q4 well rested. Calm, intense and confident teams win road games.
There is little doubt that this team now understands the impact of winning the games they are supposed to win in the regular season and how it sets up the post season. It is great to see. And hopefully this level of professionalism is now a behavior, not a just a trend.
Who have the Nuggets beaten??
I read this on the DP
Who have the Nuggets beaten??
“EVERY TEAM THEY HAVE PLAYED’
by samdman on Nov 5, 2009 10:13 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
And by we . . I mean they.
I don’t get to suit up, which is, of course, a good thing.
This article points out the obvious flaw in the Nuggets...
The Nuggets guard play will be terrific all year long because of their depth. Denver’s glaring weakness are their big men.
Nene, Kenyon & Andersen:
1. None of the above are All-Stars
2. They are undersized each night.
3. No depth! If one of these guys goes down, who is going to come off the bench…Malik Allen, Johan Petro?!
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