Playing like their competition... (Nuggets/Knicks recap)
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 27, 2009 10:05 PM MST
in Game Recaps
39 comments
Just because the Nuggets were playing the Knicks tonight, didn't mean they had to play like them.
First off, why is it that Nate always gets to recap the feel good walkover victories whereas I'm saddled with the games - win or loss - with a negative bent? I hate to be so negative after a W, but I guarantee George Karl and his coaching staff aren't the least bit happy with the way tonight's victory went down. And neither should we.
The Nuggets hosted one of the shortest and worst defensive teams in the NBA tonight, but rather than drive the ball to the rack and punish the Knicks porous interior defense they engaged in a long-range shootout from the opening tip, at the risk of wasting Carmelo Anthony's finest scoring night of his career. The Nuggets 35 free throw attempts is a phony number, too, because a large percentage of those free throw tries came as the result of the Knicks being over the foul limit in virtually every quarter.
And that was just on the offensive end of the floor.
Defensively, the Nuggets might as well have worn matador outfits and held out red capes all night as they allowed the Knicks to routinely waltz into the lane en route to a 49% shooting night for their opponents from the Big Apple (the Knicks typically shoot about 43% from the field, fourth worst in the NBA). There's an old NBA saying that the first team to 100 points wins, but that's not necessarily the case when both teams are tied at 100 with over seven minutes to go.
All that said, it was a thoroughly enjoyable game to watch for offense junkies. Melo's career high 50 points was sensational, complete with a lot of "oh, no don't take that sho----oh, yeah!!!!" makes. It's hard to believe that Melo - he of the 33-point quarter - had never dropped 50 in a game before. He was certainly overdue.
But as well as Melo played, the Nuggets were unable to get Melo involved offensively down the stretch and closing duties fell to Chauncey Billups and J.R. Smith who combined to make the game's final six, very clutch field goals (four for J.R. and two for Chauncey, including the very last two in the game). I've heard rumblings from Nuggets fans lately concerned about Chauncey's scoring accuracy, and hopefully tonight's performance puts many of those doubts to rest.
It needs to be acknowledged, however, that somewhat similar to the recent contests against the Clippers and Nets, the Nuggets are falling into a bad habit of playing down to the level of their competition (or, in tonight's case, playing like them). Instead of having lesser opponents dictate the tempo of the game, the Nuggets should be imposing their will on the dregs of the NBA. This is the NBA, though, and what makes the sport so much fun to watch is the unpredictable nature of the game. Tonight's game showed just how unpredictable this game can be.
Congrats to Melo and the Nuggets on an always needed and welcomed victory. But how 'bout some defense on Sunday against the Timberwolves, fellas?
Photo courtesy of AP Photos: David Zalubowski
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Exactly.
I’ve long been worried about us ‘playing down to our competition’. It’s happened way too often, last season AND this season. Maybe they’re still not used to actually being GOOD that they have to continue to play like the Nuggets sans-Billups?
What would’ve made it worse was that we haven’t lost at home since March of last season. How sad would it have been if the loss that broke that streak was to the KNICKS?!
Kinda like how the Blazers lost to the Grizzlies just a few minutes ago. :]
by Agaliarept on Nov 27, 2009 10:28 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
- While Denver did a lot right this evening, what they did on the defensive end of the court left something to be desired. “My biggest worry is that we’ve gone to try and outscore people and not defend people,” Karl admitted. “That’s a very dangerous personality if we continue with it.”
-Travis Heath of Hoopsworld – http://www.hoopsworld.com/Blogs/CourtsideBlog.asp?GAME_ID=36322&LEAGUE_CODE=NBA
Good thing GK’s worried. He may have said “That’s a very dangerous personality if we continue with it.”, but all I read was “That’s what we tried to do two seasons ago (and even before that), and all it got us was first-round playoff exits.”
by Agaliarept on Nov 27, 2009 10:57 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
nene
tonights game illustrates why he will never be a starting power forward in the nba. he has a long way to go with defensive fundamentals. denver uses a 3 man rotation for the center and power forward positions. nene will be the first to go to the bench after the 8 minute mark of the first quarter. andersen comes in and plays center. after the second quarter starts kmart comes out and nene plays power forward. he reallly does not do a whole lot against a second string forward. nuggets need to go to a 4 player rotation at center and power forward position in the second quarter. joey graham backing up kmart will do a better job and help with kmart’s foul situation. graham being used in a backup combo forward role will help keep melo’s minutes down. denver will have a 9 man rotation. the second quarter is where graham can be the most effective.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
by nohoops4u on Nov 27, 2009 11:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Melo
You think he could play some backup 4 mins?
by Agaliarept on Nov 27, 2009 11:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
2nd half
melo can play power forward in the second half in a running lineup. nene, melo, earl, aa and ty. i wonder if he had gotten more rest in this game if he could have scored more. the portland game he scored 2 points in the third quarter and 19 points in the 4th. graham can sub for kmart in the second quarter and stay in to give melo a break after that. a 4 man rotation at center and power forward in the first half and go back to a 3 man rotation in the 2nd half.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
by nohoops4u on Nov 27, 2009 11:27 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I think Nene had a pretty solid game today. And he certainly outplayed the rest of our big men. Bird was nonexistant on both ends, and pretty much got pushed around at will. And the Knicks are a small team. I’m tired of watching bird stand there and jump for rebounds instead of putting his body into someone and getting position. I guess he just knows that he is too weak to get anyone out of the way. I realize there are some games when his energy can take over for him and flying around gets the job done. But he has the worst fundamentals on the team, and it really hurt us tonight. K-mart wasn’t much better tonight. Especially since he kept picking up dumb fouls. He shoots almost every time he gets the ball, he rarely has great passes, and only sometimes gets his body into someone and boxes out. But he is still the best forward defender in the league in my opinion, so his bad offense gets a pass. Nene is BY FAR our best big man fundamentally. He was all over the boards tonight, compared to the rest of us, and consistently fought for positioning. On defense, there were several times when he was caught out of position in our rotations and it hurt us. (including their last 3 by duhon). But he is seriously improving defensively. K-mart is still the best defender, especially while playing man defense. But Bird is terrible, except for the occasional weakside block. Bird got owned several times by david lee by simply backing him down. Nene never let that happen and not only is he the strongest on the team, but he is quicker than pretty much any center in the league. I have yet to see another center have a truly dominant game against him. Bosh and Bynum were mediocre, and no one else is worth mentioning. He had another steal tonight (he is second among centers in steals to Dwight Howard, pretty impressive) to go with 2 blocked shots, and 11 boards. Plus, offensively he had a quiet 9 points, 5 assists, and only 1 turnover in almost 36 minutes. That is a pretty solid stat line. Nene has easily the best post moves on the team, and he knows how to use his body. And he is a great passer for a big man. And he has the best hands out of any of our big men as well. Plus, he is a great cutter, and is good for a few thunderous dunks a game. (His dunk tonight from behind the backboard was incredible). I don’t know what you are seeing that makes you dislike him, but I’d have to disagree with whatever it is. I think he has a real shot at being the backup center for the West in the All-Star game. (Mostly because there is no one else in the West). But to me, he looks good, and will continue to improve. His only 2 weaknesses that I see are when he tries to be too fine on offense and doesn’t finish, and when he loses focus on defense and misses a rotation. But he also is probably the 3rd most consistent player we have at playing hard at all times, (to Chauncey and Bird). But I do agree that he would be better suited as a 4 instead of a center.
Sorry about the novel, but I just feel like Nene is a little under appreciated by most of the Nuggets fanbase.
by ZTC_87 on Nov 27, 2009 11:59 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
nene cannot play forward
is the point i tried to make. being critical of nene does not mean i dislike him. andersen has his limitations including his 22 minutes he played tonight. nene has all kinds of talent. his biggest problem is he relies on his athleticism on defense and struggles playing away from the ball. he is very fundamentally sound on offense. 36 minutes going against lee and harrington and getting 9 points. they had 23 and 41 points. i cannot see how that kind of play translates against players like dirk. he has a place in the nba as a center NOT a forward. he has a lot going for him BUT he still has a long way to go on defense and playing the forward position.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
by nohoops4u on Nov 28, 2009 12:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
True
He’s not quick enough, and/or won’t apply himself to play tough defense against good, face-to-the-basket offensive players.
"Those guys were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked" - Homer defines the Bears '09 season in less than 12 words.
by propheteer on Nov 28, 2009 7:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see how you can say that
when he hasn’t ever played with a legit center in his entire career. I really wish we could have seen how he would have played with Camby.
by GoldenNugget on Nov 28, 2009 8:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nene can play both Center and Forward
He is too quick and athletic for big centers and too strong for most forwards. To say he cant play forward is a strange analysis. I just dont see it. Nene is much maligned in Denver and I dont get it. Of course he has tough matchups sometimes but to quote Pau Gasol "That guy is a beast. I dont know why they dont use him more¨.
Melo is really starting to find him for dunks when Nenes defender comes to help and when that happens the Nugs are unstoppable.
Defending big strong centers will always be difficult for him, but he is the strongest guy on he team. He creates a mismatch on the other end. Nene is a very valuable part of this team.
by gonugs on Nov 29, 2009 6:20 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Knicks were unstoppable from the 3
Having been at the game I can speak to how porous the defense was, but some of the 3’s the Knicks made were totally contested JR Smithesque beauties that you can’t do anything more to stop. I think what is more concerning is how little scoring we saw from the bench namely Afflalo and Ty. They couldn’t create any shots and AA put himself into foul trouble early. Frustrating game long run, but very exciting live.
Bleed Blue and Gold
by MileHighMonsters on Nov 27, 2009 11:08 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Afflalo started last night and has been a starter for some time now. He is not a bench player.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
by Thursty on Nov 28, 2009 8:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
True
but that’s not really the point
Bleed Blue and Gold
by MileHighMonsters on Nov 28, 2009 1:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then I don’t see your point. You complain about bench scoring and then single out a starter as being particularly to blame for the problem. It’s been made pretty clear that JR is not a starter because if he was, he wouldn’t be a primary scorer with the starters as he is off the bench. The same holds true for Afflalo; he’s not the primary focus of the offense with the starters. Afflalo was brought in as a replacement for Dahntay Jones, not as a scorer. Any scoring coming from him is just icing on the cake.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
by Thursty on Nov 29, 2009 8:51 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I mistakenly labeled Afflalo a bench player
but I meant that between him and Ty there was a certain hustle and chemistry that usually led to open threes and penetration to the basket. Instead of them working in tandem, they were both benched for most of the game in favor of JR and Chauncey hitting threes. You’re right that I might be overlooking his primary role of lock down defender, but it’s also worth noting AA didn’t do much quality defending on Thursday either.
Bleed Blue and Gold
by MileHighMonsters on Nov 29, 2009 3:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You said it before
The Nuggets appear to be pretty good although red flags are showing up everywhere in this teams play despite winning. Credit the Knicks for playing their game and making a lot of shots to put Denver on their heels most of the game. To me what stands out is thia team doesn’t have any “style” of play they just have good players and trot out superior talent expecting to win. This year the Nuggets aren’t playing very good defense at all, not from a lack of ability because they seem to not care. When K-Mart is ineffective or out this team defense is laughable. Nene continues to follow up great showings with incredibly soft performances in matchups he should dominate. I’m sure if you look up the advanced stats this year this garbage defense will get exposed.
by runningdonut on Nov 27, 2009 11:44 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
knicks just showed the nba how to beat denver
portland should start lamarcus aldridge at center the next time they play. nene’s game is beating a slower player. put a faster player against nene and he will struggle.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
by nohoops4u on Nov 27, 2009 11:51 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
We’re jumping to some pretty outrageous conclsions a little early in the season. Nohoops4you: I hear what your saying about Nene for sure, but I think why you can’t see him as a forward is because he is so out of practice doing it that when he’s in there at the 4 (or oddly the 3 sometimes) he gets caught with “his hand in the cookie jar” on both ends of the court.
What I see from him is confusion. He hasn’t comitted to neither the 4 OR 5. And I think the blame for that is on the nuggets brass and GK. it’s an identity crisis, you know? I think Nene, with his atheletic ability, could revolutionize the center position, but there has to be a commitment from the top down to make this happen. There is not a center in this game as quick as Nene, and he can out muscle most too. He has the tools to be the hardest “cover” in the league…
ZTC: great points and awesome stat collection. Really interesting read, and the MOST intersting thing you said was the “fanbase underappreciating…” etc. We’re on the brink of a championship and a lot of us are worried, and LOOKING FOR the crack that is going break the Dam that’ll lead to catastrophe, because as nuggets fans, we’re in unchartered territory, so we seem to try and find what’s going to be our ultimate demise….
We need to take a breath. I realize that we should be 14-2 at this point. But it’s a LONG season, and we are gonna lose some games that we shouldve won etc…
Look at the Laker fanbase, they went into overtime against the Thunder and no one freaked out about that!
Andrew has it spot on. This team plays down to bad opponents. And that sucks. But that doesn’t mean that the knicks showed the rest of the league a blueprint on how to beat us. There is no way that our team plays the Spurs, Lakers, Blazers, Jazz, etc…the same way.
We get lazy. And that’s not a game plan or rotation problem. It’s a fundemental shift in attitude and ethic. And that’s something that is going to drive us fans crazy!!!
By the way, this knocks team had Boston reeeling the other day too! Nobodys concerned about those guys.
We need to have a little more confidence in our team who is without question one of the 5 best teams in the league!
All of our critical posts and comments (big man, nene, hating on melo…etc) seem to have a commonality river flowing beneath
them…hustle and energy night-in and night-out.
Go Nuggets
by SternfluffsKobe on Nov 28, 2009 1:24 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Just like Boston
I was going to say that both the Knicks and Sixers gave Boston all they could handle last week but are still the hands down favorites in the East.
We aren’t going to win every game pretty – I just hope we keep protecting The Can and winning at a high clip in general.
Great game Melo!
by Boulder_Matthew on Nov 28, 2009 7:45 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Were you the one that asked
Why is Harrington was still playing? Don’t you hate it when the nuggets make guys like him look like super-stars? Harrington’s agent should send the Nuggs a thank-you letter for single-handedly extending his clients career for at least another year because of the “did you see what he did against the Nuggets last year, in there house? We’ve still got some game! And if you don’t snatch him up he’ll do it to you guys!!!”
come on nuggets! It drives me crazy! There os always someone on these bad teams that the nuggets make look awesome…
Ugh
go nuggets
by SternfluffsKobe on Nov 28, 2009 1:52 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
totally agree
about Denver not being a team with an identity. Last year whenever people mentioned Denver, you automatically thought, great defense and high energy. This year however, it’s hard to say what we are. We continue to win, but we should because we have so mush talent. I think as soon as we commit to defense we will start to reach our full potential.
by GoldenNugget on Nov 28, 2009 8:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
side note
hey Andrew/Nate, given the events of this week, I think the Broncos need to relinquish their #1 billing on the stiff list to the CU buffaloes. read this post over at ralphie report if you need any more convincing:
http://www.ralphiereport.com/2009/11/26/1175142/colorados-press-release-insults
by Rainbow skyline on Nov 27, 2009 11:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Stop freaking out
They made tons of tough 3s that they’ll never make. Duhon from deep? His shooting is abysmally bad. He’s the joke of the NBA. Harrington? Something like 20% for the year.
Teams get hot. We didn’t play perfect, but we didn’t shit the bed either. So just relax.
That said, when K-Mart is out we need to put JR or Melo on players like Harrington—which might mean leaving Birdman on the bench and playing small-ball.
by baronzeus on Nov 28, 2009 1:43 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s more the Knicks than our defense.
When you combine these three things:
- They’re on fire
- They played like they had nothing to lose, playing on the road against one of top teams in the L
- Thinking about the fact they’re on fire IN D’Antoni’s offense
Any good defensive team would have gotten fits… I thought generally we played good team defense… it’s just that D’Antoni’s offense is very hard to predict and therefore hard to guard against…
On a night like this, they could have beat almost anyone but we still beat them… I’m one of the toughest team critics… but I think we’re allowed a break for this one.
I think we played some very good defense, but they just hit shots and had that “we have nothing to lose anyway” attitude throughout the game, especially when they kept hitting shots and started to realize they were making everything and therefore get even more aggressive as the game went on.
by SnakefromHell on Nov 28, 2009 5:25 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I love Chauncey
I’ve been one of the fans who has been harping on CB’s poor shooting of late. However, last night and against NJ he looked sharp. I love to see him pull up (on the break) and just nail the 3. Really puts a dagger into the other team.
Melo was amazing; frustrating the way they let the Knicks just hang around. Should have easily beat them by 10 or more. GK looked depressed during the post-game interview. My wife asked, “Does he always sound like that?”
How many times on Altitude are we going to have to hear Hastings say, “They need to put a body on someone, when boxing out.”?? Then, only to have the Altitude producers zoom in on Bird or Martin just standing there as the other team flys in for an easy rebound!
by CSprings_Tommy on Nov 28, 2009 6:52 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Hastings should become an assistant
although I would miss his charismatic commentary, it sounds like he is the only person around the Nuggets organization who is interested in the concept of “boxing out”.
by GoldenNugget on Nov 28, 2009 8:29 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Relax
You would think based on these posts that the Nuggets lost! I think we need to relax here. The good teams find ways to win against the lower echelon teams, and this was bit of a trap game, coming off a road game, and a day off yesterday for Thanksgiving. I do think the Nuggs need a solid 4th big man to make a run at the Lakers, but this team is hard to beat when Melo, JR and Chauncey have it going, like they did last night. I am happy we have a team that wins games like this. . . and will probably blow out teams like this as the season progresses (AND THEY GET THAT BIG MAN!)
by ACEIII on Nov 28, 2009 6:53 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
This was an exciting game to watch. Melo looked incredible, CB had a solid night and JR came up big at the right times. I know it was too close for comfort at the end, but you have to admit that it was still intense.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
by FrankD on Nov 28, 2009 10:56 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Luck of the draw on the "feel good" wins Andrew ... I'm sure you'll get one Sunday! ha ha
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Nov 28, 2009 11:08 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Although I'm reading this late...
Damn, Nate…way to jinx it! haha
by GottaLoveMelo on Dec 1, 2009 12:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops!
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Dec 1, 2009 12:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
A win is a win but no D is a sin
How can any win against Minnesota be a feel-good win? Anything aside from a 20-point blowout win will be viewed critically.
And even then, it’s pretty boring no matter what. Karl should make the storyline interesting and let Chauncey rest.
Aside form Chris Andersen playing soft like a marshmallow underneath, I didn’t think the Nuggets D was especially horrible. New York, especially Harrington, was just HOT.
I’m pleased that Denver managed to bring out the big guns when it became apparent that the Knicks were gunning for a shootout.
I’m more worried about the poor bench play we’ve seen in the previous games than the defensive performance yesterday.
And the rest of you can say what you want about Anthony Carter, the fact is that Denver has a different defensive personality without him on the court. But… I’m not keen on his shooting or passing on the other end. So, what can you do?
by Fly Agaric on Nov 28, 2009 2:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Most exciting game in a while
Oh man, I have been waiting for Melo to get 50 forever! Donnie Walsh’s grandson goes to my school, and he was telling me how he got to sit courtside and talk to all the players. I was very, very jealous
by melofan on Nov 28, 2009 4:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Non-existent defense
Very nice game to watch if you love high flyin’ offense, but the Nugs took a page from the Mike D’Antoni’s book on how not to play good defense.
Although, I’ll definitely take the first 50 point game by Melo.
"Those guys were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked" - Homer defines the Bears '09 season in less than 12 words.
by propheteer on Nov 28, 2009 7:19 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
EVERY team plays down to their competition sometimes...
In my travels around SB Nation and other fansites, there’s one fairly glaring difference between Nuggets fans and the fans of teams that have been in the hunt for a championship regularly over the last decade: they don’t get TOO down when they’re down or TOO up when they’re up.
[Even so, I hate it when people drop the “it’s a marathon not a sprint” analogy about the NBA because it’s untrue – it’s NEITHER a marathon or a sprint because it has nothing to do with WHEN you finish but with WHERE you finish and we have played some very, very important games at the end of the last 4 or 5 seasons that wouldn’t have been so important had we beaten a few more of the teams that we should have along the way… But I digress…]
Point being, we should try hard to recognize that this game was tougher than it should have been but also tough enough that it would have been one of those “trap” type losses last year or the year before but we climbed on our two biggest star’s shoulders and avoided that L the way a Championship team does. No reason to fret and only a slight reason (beyond the fact that it went into the “W” column) to celebrate. While we shouldn’t start hanging banners after CRUSHING the Lake Show earlier this season and we shouldn’t start hanging OURSELVES after losing to the Clippers, we definitely should only glance over our shoulder at our wins and losses. Our focus needs to be razor sharp and directly at our future…
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 28, 2009 8:31 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Nice. You kinda hope
That we’re always looking at what’s right in front of us. That’s the best way to play basketball and actually that’s the best way to LIVE LIFE! learn what you can and meet the next challenge with clear heads and full hearts…sorry, Friday night lights reference…but so fucking true.
by SternfluffsKobe on Nov 29, 2009 12:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
ON a side note....
anyone else read that frank from NJ got fired and his replacement is kiki vandewage (sp?)… wow that team might go 8-74…. at least they have a good chance for john wall, bad news is, lebron or wade wont wna play there
by hvino on Nov 29, 2009 8:39 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
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