This loss raises a few red flags... (Nuggets/Clippers recap)
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 21, 2009 1:11 AM MST
in Game Recaps
44 comments
LOS ANGELES - Simply put, last season we didn't lose games like this. It just didn't happen. And thus, what will hopefully be a just brief aberration in the middle of an otherwise great season raises several red flags.
First off, let's be clear about one thing: tonight's lethargic and often lazy performance by the Nuggets isn't a cause for panic or alarm. It's still too early in the season for that. That said, our two greatest offseason concerns finally reared their ugly heads tonight: the lack of a true big man and the absence of a no-one-believes-in-us spirit, the latter being of biggest worry for me.
The Nuggets had (semi) legitimate excuses for their first three losses at Miami, at Atlanta and at Milwaukee. Those were all tough, playoff bound teams (yes, it looks like the Bucks may be playoff bound) who had the advantage of catching the Nuggets on either back-to-back nights or just generally fatigued from having to play multiple back-to-backs within a few weeks.
But while sitting in the Staples Center stands watching our Nuggets waltz through three-and-a-half quarters, I couldn't figure out what the Nuggets excuse for a bad effort was tonight. After all, since returning to Denver from that six-game road trip, the Nuggets had a walkover victory against the Lakers, three full days rest followed by another walkover victory - this time against the Raptors - followed by two full days rest leading into tonight's affair against the injury-riddled, struggling Clippers. And then it hit me: the Nuggets had NO excuse for a bad effort tonight and served one up nonetheless.
In fact, the only person on the Nuggets side of the affair exhibiting any emotion tonight was head coach George Karl (maybe I got to Karl about the whole working-the-refs thing, because he's been visibly more animated with the officials since our lunch last week...I'm just saying) who pulled several Norman Dale impersonations, desperately trying to get tossed on at least two occasions as assistant coach John Welch fought to hold him back. As I was yawning midway through the second quarter, I was secretly hoping someone would toss me out of there, too.
But Karl's much welcomed outbursts at the refs weren't enough to salvage one of the more poorly played Nuggets games in some time. And even though the Clippers tried desperately to hand this game to our Nuggets in the fourth quarter (they are, after all, the Clippers), the Nuggets wanted nothing to do with securing a victory tonight. Worse, they ran away from victory, allowing the Clippers to steal a win they should have never been in a position to take in the first place.
For those who didn't see the game and will only read the box score, you'll wonder how the Nuggets lost. After all, Carmelo Anthony shot a splendid 12-20 from the field and 12-13 from the free throw line (when Melo shoots over 50% and gets to the line over 10 times, the Nuggets are usually assured of a victory). The field goal percentage was fairly even. As was the rebounding. And of course you'll note that the three-point shooting was dominated by the Clippers while the Nuggets shot themselves out of the game with a four-of-17 night behind the arc.
What the box score won't tell you is that J.R. Smith rushed a lot of bad shots. That Melo was routinely late to close out on Rasual Butler (pronounced "Russell" by the Clippers inept P.A. announcer) who ultimately smoked us. And that the Nuggets never had a defensive presence inside whatsoever, mustering just three blocks - all from Kenyon Martin - and none from the center position. (To be fair, Nuggets backup center Chris "Birdman" Andersen wasn't even there but this game again showed us that Nene belongs at the four-spot, not the five.)
But more than anything, the box score won't show you that the Nuggets - with the exception of a quick burst in the opening minutes - never owned the energy of this game. The "every game is important" and "no one believes in us" swagger that had this team playing hard and competitively on a nightly basis for the first half and then the latter part of last season was completely absent tonight.
Like their football-playing brethren in Denver, the Nuggets need to get their mojo back...and fast. Oh, and just for fun, when the Bulls come into Pepsi Center to face the Nuggets tomorrow night, it will be our Nuggets fourth back-to-back affair out of 13 total games played. Had the Nuggets played the right way tonight, they might have had a legitimate excuse to lose tomorrow. But given that they exerted as little effort as possible, whatever excuses remained are no longer on the table.
Some quick observations from the not-so-cheap seats...
...I haven't seen Karl this hot with the officials in years. Literally years. I don't know if it was caught on TV or not, but at one point Karl threw such a tantrum that he slipped and fell over (belly first) onto the scorer's table and almost knocked some fans food over. It was pretty funny.
...J.R. Smith's 360-degree layup was totally unnecessary, totally unreal and totally amazing.
...What's it going to take to get the Clippers DeAndre Jordan into a Nuggets jersey? The guy has a giant wingspan and giant hands. Oh, and he's a legit 6'11" to boot.
...Melo hurt his hand during the first half and was continually shaking it throughout the game while grimacing, too. Did they mention on the broadcast what happened there? We couldn't tell from the stands.
Photo courtesy of AP Photos: Mark J. Terrill
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We need birdman!
We deserved to lose this one..the energy simply wasn’t there until the 4th quarter. I always wonder why we like to play catch up after getting ourselves down by double digits. Not to mention the officiating was extremely poor tonight.
You need something
Melo send a message to the rest of the NBA stating that the Nuggets have arrived…….by beating the defending champs………..NOV…..what goes on in NOV………is the playoffs starting………is the playoffs over………..NOV……then they visit L.A. and get spanked by da CLIPPERS……where’s MELO now…………get real and start making statements in MAY,JUNE…if you want the rest of the NBA to take NOTICE….not NOV
earl needs to start
smith coming off the bench is like getting in a fist fight with your hand tied behind your back. billups becomes the 5th scoring option and he can just worry about distributing. when afflao starts the opponents best guard defends billups. earl will be under better control with chauncey. nene had a great 1st quarter then disappeared in the second half. i thought he was going to have 20 rebounds for the game the way he started out. it comes down to 1 of 2 bad habits for denver. getting off to a bad start OR getting a lead and letting the other team back into the game. joey graham needs to get more time subbing for kmart.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
Graham at PF
If I remember correctly the best lineup last night was Lawson Earl melo Graham and nene. Malik Allen is hurts the team if he’s not shooting so that lineup is avoid one to go with as long as birdman is out.
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2009 1:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Melo's Hand
The only thing brought up about Melo’s hand when he dove on the floor to get the loose ball that he lost against Camby. They said he jammed his finger. But it looked more like his wrist was hurting than a finger
Holy smoke Andrew you can read my mind! :)
DeAndre is one of the two big men I can think of I want on Nuggets… not sure if Clips would do it, but just saying… I posted this on RealGM:
We have to look at struggling teams then.
I like:
- Yi Jianlian (9.8 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.2 bpg). We trade Malik Allen and Anthony Carter and future 2nd rd pick that Nets might want to take as expirings. What I like about Yi is he is not a stiff, he can catch passes, in the right system he can be utilized as a passer off the post, playing with many good passers on our team he will either knock down open shots or dunks… he can shoot, he can rebound, and his athleticism enables him to defend. He also shoots well from FT (86.7%). What I don’t like is his FG% (40.6%) but again playing with many passers on our team and the right system should benefit his game.
- DeAndre Jordan (2.6 ppg, 2.1 rpg). We trade Joey Graham that Clippers might want to take as expiring. He seems to be getting deeper into Dunleavy’s doghouse. He only plays 8.3 mpg this season, but he remains talented and long. He is also a good post defender I heard. If a stiff like Petro can be extended, FO must like him. Cheap with a potentially big return.
How many dunks did he have tonight? 5? That’s nuts… but guy can catch the ball and he’s long and big, and can be a huge difference for us… By him being there guarding big guys like Andrew Bynum or just putting his hands up for potential boards is going to make a lot of difference.
I had my doubts he had bad hands, after this game, I think he has pretty good hands… he can have feasts receiving passes from Nene, Melo, Billups, Lawson, but I don’t think Clips would be interested in anything we have to offer (obviously we’re not parting with the core, Afflalo, Lawson for him)… expirings might not do it.
The only way I see possible is when Blake Griffin returns and plays well right off the bat, and buries him deep on the bench he becomes forgettable… and Denver comes calling at the right time.
Jordan
How does he only have 2.6 ppg? He was a dunking machine.
I was nervous in the first quarter because Melo was the only one scoring. They got up big, then coastedd, and it cost them the game.
I appreciated Karl being more involved, but he didn’t show up until after the game was over. He allowed a 17-0 run before he finally called a timeout. At that point the lead was gone, and the game was over. I’ve been giving Karl some props lately, but last night he didn’t show up until it was too late. Not sure who is more to blame, the players or the coach, but the coach gets at least 50% by being over confident at the start and not calling the to’s when needed. At the end of the game with 40 seconds left, they still had 3 timeouts. Bullshit. I’m interested to read Andrews third part on the Karl interview, but when Karl said he doesn’t call timeout because his old college coach said it showed they didn’t prepare in practice, it pissed me off. When Karl said that, he basically said he doesn’t call timeouts because of perception. He doesn’t want to be perceived as a coach that doesn’t get ready in practice, so to prove it he doesn’t call timeout, regardless of what the team needs. The team needed him to be there during that 17-0 run and he wasn’t. After that he was desperately trying to prove he wasn’t the problem, but it was too late.
I’m out of town for the next week, so root for the team for me, and if anyone sees Karl, kick him in the hind quarters for me.
My Concern
Would be that we would make a deal like that to get a big man, then Karl wouldn’t even play him becuase he would let his ego of not playing younger guys get in the way of what the team really needs.
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2009 2:14 PM MST up reply actions
Trade for DJ is not going to happen...
Despite how it looks on the box score, the Clippers are actually really high on him. He’s a project and currently in development, but plans are for him to be one of the keys in the future.
He looked good in last night’s game (and very good in preseason), but in previous games he had trouble staying on the floor due to being in foul trouble and having lapses in judgment (some crucial turnovers and missed defensive rotations)…he’s a project.
Camby’s contract expires this year and this should make room for DJ to crack into the rotation.
Definitely would not trade for something like an expiring contract.
like i said befor theres always next year
untill we get a legit big to help chris and nene and this team figures out that the door is closeing on a chanpionship real soon this team will just be always the ones who almost make it, its heartbreaking sometimes i wish they would get there sh!t together. two bad losses to to bad teams, i just dont know what else to say,
tknuckle
Too early to panic
The celtics are 9-4 right now and will assuredly be an elite team at the end. The San Antonio spurs have a worse record than the Sacramento kings. The nuggets are the same team that stormed out of the gates to a 5-0 record with a hobbled roster. They need to recapture their mojo and get that swagger to travel with them. In the end 4-4 on the road is just not good enough and I think they will figure it out and respond
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2009 4:03 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Road woes
It’s a very long season and I really believe this Nuggets team is better than any in recent memory. I still believe we can contend for the #1 seed provided we can work out some of this really disturbing bad habits they show on the road.
Most of the games I have watched the Nuggets rely on a 4-5 minute stretch of brilliance to break it open and win. The rest of the time the effort might be lacking intensity or they don’t finish plays by rebounding or making the extra pass. During home games you can avoid a stretch of bad play and frustration with a big play and momentum swing from the crowd. On the road it’s a different story, they beat themselves by taking plays off, getting satisfied with a lead and stubbornly refusing to change the plan of attack.
The script is mostly the same for these tough road losses. The defense completely falls apart when K-Mart subs out, and the team gives into frustration. The rest of the game is losing a lead then playing catch up trying to get it all back with the one guy who’s been scoring (Melo). I really can’t put my finger on what’s causing. I kind of wrongfully blamed Karl’s rotation earlier but it keeps happening. The Clips are not good, they are missing Gordon and Griffin and were 2-5 at home before tonight.
I’m really not concerned about this team playing at home. They’ll win a good amount of games there but will never take the next step until they start beating quality teams on the road. We haven’t even played the heavy hitters on the road yet, minus Atlanta who blew us out of the building the first quarter. It’s almost disgusting to see Chauncey and K-Mart joking around on the bench during a blowout win at home, then showing no emotion giving up a double digit lead and getting smoked by the Clips. The only bright spot I can take from this is GK being super pissed and the only showing emotion and pure disgust at such a brutal loss.
We just don’t have a legit 7 footer… watching Nene by himself being sandwiched by true 7 footers trying to rebound between them is pitiful… KMart would often shy himself out of the pile because he doesn’t want to get injured trying to rebound when landing his feet… Nene with average of 8 rpg, and KMart with average of 7 rpg is simply not good enough, not being ungraciously demanding as a fan, but 15 rpg combined for a starting C and PF is not good enough… unless we want to focus being a playoffs team only instead of being a championship caliber team.
To me, this team has all the perfect ingredients to win it all, except that department… we need a legit 7 footer who consistently boxes out people and rebounds. Just someone who really LOVES to rebound… we need at least one guy who we can say a “beast” in rebounding. We can’t really say that about Nene or KMart.
Billups slowing down is starting to concern me too, but the concern is nowhere near the need for a legit 7 footer.
Having to depend on Nene and KMart for rebounding on nightly basis is like seeing a pair of Keon Clark’s legs trying to support a Shaq body… the heavy duty is going to crumble soon… it is going to result in running out of gas early in March, April just around playoffs or injuries (knock on wood).
Good point
Nene and K-Mart both played very close to 40 minutes. On the first night of a back to back. And it’s November. Birdman is hurt but damn…
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2009 2:50 AM MST up reply actions
As Pat Riley use to say with the Lakers...
No Rebounds, No Rings. We are pitiful in the rebounding department, and are depend on our talent and atheism and offensive efficiency to win. This works at home and usually against mediocre/bad teams but not against better bigger teams. We are in no danger of not making the playoffs but I thought our aspirations were bigger than that after last season.
Nene for all his potential to be a ferocious player is all finesse. His numerous finger rolls rather than dunking. His shying away for contact down low and lack of interest in mixing it up to get a rebound.
One of potential plus rebounder son the team is Balkman. And he is in Karl’s doghouse for practice issues. Sounds like the JR Smith all over again from 2 years ago. So, if it’s going to take 2 years to brings him into the fold, Chauncey will be retired or truly ineffective at that point.
I also thought the idea was to give Chauncey, Kmart, and Nene reduced minutes, so they can be effective at playoff time. It’s not happening with the two bigs so much. Karl goes with a rotation of 8, playoff game-style!
My name is the One...
"and we are depend on our talent and ATHEISM and offensive efficiency to win."
LOL
by desecrator09 on Nov 21, 2009 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
Didn't catch that...maybe Karl should take the team church every Sunday to be sure
last yr we were 5th in league in FG% and 15th in total Reb/G and 15th Differential Reb (our Reb/G – opponent Reb/G) was +.4 and opp. FG% . The year is still early but we are 6 in FG% but 24 in Reb/G and 26 Difff Reb/G at -3.4.
When you think about it this is how we were successful last year: play defense(4 in opp. FG%), break even in our rebounding and shoot high FG%.
This year, we are shooting around the same FG% but getting killed on the board and don’t have a consistent commitment ind D (15 in opp. FG%)
My name is the One...
Geez, nuggets
I’m with you guys on this one…these are hard to take. Although, maybe these are the kind of games that we need as a sort of wake-up call. I know Its been said before, and it takes the sting out looking forward, but we HAVE to start treating every team with more respect…underestimating a team before, during and even after a game is turning out to our worst enemy!
I agree with the FACT that we need a legit 7 footer (or 6’11" with a wing span) but, with teams like the clippers a simple shift in energy should get the job done!!!! Godamnit. We can get up on these guys by 16 in the early going but then give it up?!?
Foot on the throat. We can’t assume that teams are just gonna give up when they’re down early.
The Clippers? Seriously? Come on guys, you’re better than that…
Now I have to go to work tomorrow and try to explain this to my Lakers fan best friend!
Godamnit.
GO NUGGETS!
by SternfluffsKobe on Nov 21, 2009 2:56 AM MST via mobile reply actions
You tell the players not to underestimate the opponent and then you go around and do the same thing...
The Clippers? Seriously? Come on guys, you’re better than that…
Clippers are a pretty talented team or are you only looking at the record?
on the bright side.....
If we are gonna get beat up by someone, and its gonna be on a national broadcast. I’d honestly rather have it be the clippers than a good team. I imagine this is very embarassing for the team and could be a wake up call.
by CCH on Nov 21, 2009 7:39 AM MST via mobile reply actions
time to make a move
okay..I think we know that the nuggets are pretty much who we thought they were. They are no different this year then last year,-good offense , good defense (at times but not for the full game unless their attention is there), and very poor rebounding. In fact when the defense is bad it’s because of poor pick and roll coverage and very poor rebounding leading to easy put-backs. Chauncey’s fg and TO rate has shown slippage and he needs to get back on track and I think he will. The plus is that we have a budding star in Lawson to hedge against it. I believe we can compete against any Western Conference team besides the Lakers because of their length, rebounding and offensive post presence. If we can get a legit 7 ft center who can defend and rebound, we can back him up with Bird and put Nene at the 4. We then improve 2 positions at once. Kmart is a great defender at the 4, but a bad rebounder and an offensive mental midget. Nene can do just as good defensively at the 4, but provide better rebounding and much better offense. Who do you ask may take Kenyon’s contract for a legit 7ft center. Let me introduce you to Samuel Dalembert. Once, just like Kenyon thought to be a centerpiece to build a team’s defense around, he has fallen out of favor with Philly mostly due to a new coach and new system, but also due to unreasonable expectations, his fat contract (like Kenyon) and lack of supporting cast. Samuel’s contract like Kenyon has one year left, just swap one bad contract for another…The Sixers like Speights as their center right now, so I came up with this trade that works on realgm.com:
Trade ID #5293324
Out:
Kenyon
Balkman
In:
Dalembert
Kapono
Lineup:
Melo/Kapono/Affalo/Graham
Nene/Allen/Graham/Anderson
Dalembert/Anderson/Petro
JR/Affalo
Billups/Lawson/AC
Solves are rebounding problem, and makes us better offensively with Nene moving to the 4, we also get a backup who can provide us with a spark off the bench and may allow us to start JR, so we can bring Affalo off the bench with Kapono and Lawson.
by Bigdorph on Nov 21, 2009 8:31 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
an interesting thought
rebounding is definitely a weakness. but i always got the impression that dalembert was soft. trading one of our toughest guys (maybe the only tough guy) and best on ball defender for a soft big guy who just likes blocking shots doesn’t seem like it will benefit us.
i’ll admit i haven’t seen a lot of dalembert so i could be wrong.
The Nuggets could have used Evans last night
to grab better position on Kaman.
by docescobar07 on Nov 21, 2009 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
why they lost
1. ENERGY – some guys just didn’t show up. Bad D on the 3 point line and inside.
2. TURNOVERS – the team did not take care of the ball in the 2nd & 3rd quarters where we lost the game. They went several possessions without a shot due to turnovers, at one point.
the best part of the game
was when Karl almost dove into the stands.
the look on the face of the woman sitting behind him was hilarious – like she couldn’t believe anyone could care that much about a basketball game…. though if you go to a lot of clippers games, that might be understandable.
karl goes kramden
you’re a real riot alice……… bang zoom-right to the moon. hope we all enjoyed coach karl getting excited on the side line. never will see that again.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
wait a minute
the nuggets DID lose games like this last year — at the beginning of the season. They just got a whole lot better in the second half of the season, which is why we forget their sub-par play in the early months.
hopefully this will teach the team a lesson and we won’t have many more like this the rest of the way.
Not true...
With the exception of a very early season loss at Golden State (when they were fully healthy and the Nuggets were depleted due to the Iverson trade), the Nuggets didn’t lose to a sub-.500 team until February 7th against the Nets…
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 21, 2009 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
If I remember correctly
The Nugs got to 4 losses last year and rattled off a string on consecutive wins until dropping a road game at the Lakers. This team is better than last years but maddeningly more inconsistent
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2009 12:33 PM MST up reply actions
What I can't understand
Is why Nene and Martin continue to take 10-20 foot jumpers. take the ball inside, fools!
Thanks for playing down to the competition - and kudos to the Clippers for playing hard.
But you guys just assured us a full year – and probably next – of Dunleavy coaching. We
have a few fans who defend him till the death, but you don’t know what real misery is until you have Dunleavy as a coach.
That being said, I thought Melo was fouled a good half dozen times last night that weren’t called.
JR's 360 Move
Andrew,
I disagree with you on that move insofar as it was “unnecessary.” As Scott Hastings called out on the local TV coverage, JR could have very likely drawn a charge had he kept going the direction he was headed.
That was truly an unreal play and another example of JR’s profound athleticism. It came at a key time when they were whittling away the lead as well—if they had come back and actually won that game, it could well go down as one of the plays of the year. It still might.
B. Goldberg
Fair enough...
I was sitting behind the basket on the complete opposite side from where J.R. did his 360, and since it was a Nuggets score, the Clippers didn’t replay it on their scoreboard. In other words, I couldn’t tell if it was unnecessary or not but at first glance – live – it didn’t seem necessary.
GREAT move, though!!
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 21, 2009 1:48 PM MST up reply actions
It was unnecessary.
And I got up off the couch yelling as he was doing it….“What the F@CK are you doing JR?!” ….on TV it initially looked like he missed it too. Then after seeing the replay I still had to shake my head. That was retarded to do in that situation.
by GottaLoveMelo on Nov 21, 2009 7:09 PM MST up reply actions
balkman
this was the perfect time to insert balkman and see if he would inject enrgy into the nugs. I guess Balkman is a complete loss now, I probably will give up hope soon that he will get any meaningful PT ever under Karl. I mean he chose allen over balk and allen looked completely lost out their last night.
When you eat a candy bar or have a wonderful dessert, have a diet drink. The calories are cancelled out by the diet drink.
I hope we dont become like a Jazz team in yeArs
thAt hAs a greAt reCord at home but But very Bad reCord at the roAd
I would say get a big man who either:
- We can describe as a “beast” when it comes to rebounding e.g. Emeka Okafor, Noah, or Dwight (just examples, doesn’t mean we can get them)
OR
- Opponents can describe as a “pain” to rebound against… e.g. Kendrick Perkins is not a rebounding machine but he’s so thick and physical that the lean guys like Gasol would have to at least think when trying to rebound/ do any work in the paint around him.
Guys like this… will… help… us… tremendously… no… question… about… it.
Last season...
I just wanted to point out that last season we did lose a couple of games like this. I agree with the article, just not the opening statement. Remember last year the 34 point debacle in New Jersey, or the game late in the season at Sacramento that no one on the team showed up for?
It happens once in a while to all teams, the question is how well will they bounce back? Last year they followed the New Jersey game up with a big win at Miami, but followed the Sacramento game with a loss at home to Houston.
Not true...
I should have been more specific when I said the Nuggets didn’t lose games like this. What I meant was that the Nuggets never lost to sub-.500 teams when they had at least two days rest and were coming off easy victories. That just didn’t happen last year. They only lost four times to sub-.500 teams on the road in 2008-09 (after that early season GS loss which I don’t count): at New Jersey (second of a back-to-back), at Milwaukee (third game of a three-game road trip with only one day off), at Indiana (after one day off) and at Sacramento (also with one day off).
They never lost game to a bad team with ample time off – spent in Denver no less – beforehand.
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 21, 2009 7:22 PM MST up reply actions
this is our 5th back2back of the season
Utah-portland to start off the year … then the 3 b2b away from home in a row. This is our fifth, out of 13 games … ridiculous.
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