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Around SBN: Post-UNC Thoughts

More Thoughts on Chauncey Billups Joining the Nuggets

Matt at Detroit Bad Boys is salivating over all the cap space the Pistons will have to play with starting next summer. 

He also wonders if McDyess, who was did not want to be traded, might be able to be convinced to head to Denver because he is close with Chauncey and as we all know, he has played here and then Voluntarily returned in the past.

Natalie over at Need 4 Sheed has a link to a radio report that Dyess may be bought out and then return to the Pistons.  As I have pointed out, he would have to sit out for 30 days, but if he wants to go back bad enough that is only a minor deterrent.

My thought is the Nuggets would not have had Samb included in the deal if they were going to keep Dyess.  I expect him to be back in Detroit by early December.

Samb is probably an unknown to most Nugget fans.  He is an active athletic big man who the Pistons were high on.  Here is some footage from the 2008 NBA Summer League with Samb.  He is number 35 in white and the game is Detroit versus Charlotte.

The only confusion from Nugget fans surrounding this deal seems to be why did they do it now, three games into the season?  The teams were clearly in touch with each other during the offseason with Detroit seeking to acquire Carmelo Anthony.  Dumars promised to make changes to a team that despite reaching the Eastern Conference Finals for six straight seasons had proven to be somewhat disappointing since losing to the San Antonio Spurs in the 2005 NBA Finals.  Most people think this is a deal that Dumars made to make the Pistons better.  The real reason he did this was for the massive cap space he will have next summer (as mentioned above by Matt from Detroit Bad Boys) when he allows AI to walk.

I think it took Dumars a while to accept that he was not going to be able to pull off a deal that would truly make the Pistons a contender again so he decided to pull the trigger on this deal to jumpstart the rebuilding of the Pistons.

From the Nuggets point of view, AI has been banged up and has clearly not been as effective as he was last season.  Without him they would not have defeated the Clippers and would be 0-3.  However, AI is looking like he is slowing down and perhaps all it took was three regular season games for the Nuggets to decide that it was time to pull the plug. 

There has also been confusion as to why Denver has made a trade adding long term salary when they were so desperate to dump Camby’s salary in July?  The key is that this deal goes hand in hand with the Camby trade for reducing payroll this season.  Many fans claimed that Kronke was going cheap and the made it sound like Kronke was never going to spend any money on the Nuggets again.  I have been fighting that point of view since it surfaced and this deal is proof that Kronke is still willing to spend his money on a competitive team.  I doubt they will enter the luxury tax again without more proof that it will lead to a championship, but you better believe Kronke is not going to start running the Nuggets shoe string budget.

I am a little disappointed in a what if, grass is always greener kind of way that the Nuggets are not going to see what could have happened next offseason with AI off the books and Camby’s trade exception available, but realistically I doubt they would have put together a better team than this one.  They would not have acquired a better point guard with the trade exception as they would have been looking at the Hinrichs and Feltons of the world.  Billups is a perfect point guard for the Nuggets, it gets J.R. in the starting lineup, Anthony Carter returns to his back up role where he should excel and Denver is once again a team who can put some fear in the conference elites.

The interesting thing is even though the financial commitment to Billups is far less than it was for AI two years ago this really is another go for broke type deal due to the fact the Nuggets team who will take the floor Wednesday against Golden State is the Nuggets team we will be cheering for over the next two seasons.  There is little room for improvement to the core, but if the starting five of Billups, Smith, Melo, Martin and Nene all play to their potential, there will be little need to make changes.

The one question I have not seen asked and have yet to address myself is how does this deal affect Melo?

Many fans believed the Iverson acquisition hurt Anthony’s development as a leader.  He was no longer the clear top dog and he pulled back a little because of it.  Billups will certainly be a leader who will come in with some championship clout from the start, but from a talent standpoint Melo is the star and will be in position to make this his team.

As far as on the court, Melo and AI both have said that shots were easier to come by due to having two scoring threats on the floor.  From what I have seen defenses still keyed on Melo when he was playing with AI and that will certainly not change with AI now gone.  However, Melo should benefit from having a true point guard to get him the ball in position to score. 

Not only will Melo benefit from this deal, but Chauncey should too.  With Melo drawing double teams that should open up the floor for Billups to get open looks from three and Nene and Kenyon to run the pick and roll with Billups should be in heaven offensively.

I am not sure how interested Billups will be in pushing the pace in Denver, but the Nuggets have been playing a little slower and Chauncey will be great for them in the half court.  Plus, even though he is returning “home” Billups will not have too much pressure on him.  All he has to do is to lead the Nuggets to a home win in the playoffs and he will have proven to be a wild success.

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Interesting

Everything I had heard is that Dice was being bought out, but in an article at the Rocky Mountian News, Chris Tomasson is saying that the front office is denying the buy-out.

The artist formerly known as Nuggets4.

by JLucas4092 on Nov 3, 2008 2:03 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

I bet that's because the Nuggest don't want to have to pay more for doing a deal that is such a huge gift for them

Not only do they get Samb in the deal, but they also get Billups in this as well. So if they go shooting their mouth off about the buy out, they don’t want to end up like Dallas and Mark Cuban last year with Jerry Stackhouse. That would be the reason I would think why they’re denying it today.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 3, 2008 2:32 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Since I'm doing the link between StR and P&R

Here’s the link where we’re discussing this on StR. (The point about Camby comes up, and I use your rebuttal Jeremy. It’s toward the bottom of the thread, and it’s a response to Kfan in Korea, who is no dummy I might add.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 3, 2008 2:37 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Just thought I'd mention

that its ironic everyone is so high on the idea of AC becoming a backup as opposed to a starter when he was our MVP against the Lakers. Obviously it needs to happen, just sayin. The guy plays his damn heart out.

by joshhopp on Nov 3, 2008 2:50 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Now we can all truly appreciate AC like we should...

A lot of Nuggs fans dogged AC anytime he would jack up a shot (including me). But now, he doesn’t have to put in 30+ minutes every night and can come in and run the offense when Chauncey needs a break. I love this also because it gets J.R. back in the starting line-up.

I’m very excited for Wednesday night!!

MELO!!!

MileHighReport.com
PickaxeAndRoll.com

by abaca15 on Nov 3, 2008 3:34 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Hollinger is on fire today

He LOVES the deal from the Nuggets point of view — both basketball and financially. An interesting note from one of his columns (I would post the whole thing, but it’s insider and don’t want to get Jeremy in trouble):

Denver used some maneuvering to swap out the old trade exception from the Marcus Camby trade, which would have expired in July, and was worth $10.1 million, into a new one that is worth $9.79 million and doesn’t expire until next November.

That’s nice. I doubt we use it honestly, but it’s nice to have that in our back pocket.

Also — the Nugs cut Juwan today, so we might be keeping Dice after all. Either that, our our frontcourt is thin.

The artist formerly known as Nuggets4.

by JLucas4092 on Nov 3, 2008 3:17 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Care to share your Isider password with the class? ha ha, just kidding

MELO!!!

MileHighReport.com
PickaxeAndRoll.com

by abaca15 on Nov 3, 2008 3:36 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

New Trade Exception

I saw where Hollinger wrote about the new $9.79 million trade exception and that may be true. I did not think there was any way that was possible but this is how it would have worked if that is indeed the case (and I am still trying to wrap my head around if it actually could have happened this way).

First of all the Nuggets would have acquired McDyess and Samb for Camby’s trade exception. Then the AI/Billups trade was completed as a second trade on it’s own. By removing the salaries of McDyess and Samb from their cap and then trading Billups they would have been almost $10 million under the cap. Thus theoretically they could have sent a trade exception to the Nuggets equal to the amount they were under the cap to complete the Billups/AI half of the deal.

I have studied the Collective Bargaining Agreement and I did not believe a transaction like the Billups/AI half of the trade was technically possible, but if it is,and Hollinger generally knows what he is talking about, that is just another bonus for the Nuggets.

Pickaxe and Roll - An SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Nov 3, 2008 4:22 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow Jeremy

I understand that very well, and that’s perhaps how it did go down. I saw your mention earlier about how the trade exception now expired in November, and that’s very interesting.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 3, 2008 8:33 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I had no idea that the camby exception would expire so soon

That really is savvy maneuvering at its best.

We damn well better keep AM.

I wonder if its conceivable that the Nuggets committed, before the deal, to buying out Antonio but then once they got him the decide to keep him and just renayge on the whole thing? I suppose if that happened we couldn’t count on him to play with much heart

by joshhopp on Nov 3, 2008 5:46 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Just to clarify

Camby’s trade exception would have expired next July a year after he was traded.

Pickaxe and Roll - An SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Nov 3, 2008 7:52 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Another question...

Do you think Coach Karl will actually wanna use Samb? Is he kind of like Steven Hunter? Tall and athletic, defensive oriented?

MELO!!!

MileHighReport.com
PickaxeAndRoll.com

by abaca15 on Nov 3, 2008 3:51 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

Samb will watch from the padded chairs

Samb is a project. If Steven Hunter who has had success in the NBA cannot get on the court Samb will have a very difficult time finding minutes. In fact he will probably be inactive on most nights when the Nuggets have at least 13 healthy players.

Pickaxe and Roll - An SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Nov 3, 2008 7:51 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

What number do you think Billups will wear?

by Melo15 on Nov 3, 2008 4:36 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

How about 14?

A combo of his 1 from Detroit and his 4 from CU.

Pickaxe and Roll - An SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Nov 3, 2008 5:08 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

7

MELO!!!

MileHighReport.com
PickaxeAndRoll.com

by abaca15 on Nov 4, 2008 2:45 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

My take

Billups makes the Nuggets better, and maybe a playoff team, but his contract makes NO SENSE for them.

by Ben Q Rock on Nov 3, 2008 5:10 PM MST reply actions   0 recs

you mean financially?

If so I have to disagree; the rationale behind keeping AI till his contract expires would be to make some big moves with the cap space that opens up after he leaves. I don’t see any major free agents becoming available at the end of this season that would have been worth waiting for. This is a good (not great) use of AI’s $21 million. The major problem is the long term committment we now have to Chauncy. God I hope it works out.

by joshhopp on Nov 3, 2008 5:40 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I meant the length

Annual dollar amount makes sense, given his production, but the duration worries me. I thought the Nuggets were trying to clear salary…

by Ben Q Rock on Nov 3, 2008 7:03 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m fine with the contract.

Nuggets have $52mil tied up in contracts for the next three years not including Billups. Those contracts are mostly tough to move (Kenyon, Nene), or ones you don’t want to move because they’re hard to upgrade (Melo, JR Smith).

Cap space only has value if you have enough of it to get a major player. The Nuggets don’t have enough cap space to get anyone better than Chauncey Billups if they let Iverson’s deal expire. This is the monumental difference in value between Detroit and Denver with an expiring contract, as the Pistons can sign a max contract FA this summer and possibly even the next.

Also, Billups deal can be ended at the same time that Nene’s/Kenyon’s can. So if you need to rebuild, you can do it in one swoop at that point in time. Doesn’t hurt their flexibility all … only improves their talent.

by NBR on Nov 7, 2008 8:53 PM MST up reply actions   0 recs

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