A Ron Artest Trade Theory
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 3:54 PM MST
in News and Opinion
13 comments
Editor's Note: This is the first diary that has been posted here. Instead of leaving it in the diaries section as an example of what a diary is I deiced to move it to the main page to make sure everyone gets a chance to see it.
Hi I'm from Sactown Royalty. My name is Pookeyguru. I need an intro that I normally just write into the header. I'm a Kings and A's fan. I live in Seattle. I think these intro's are dumb but oh well. Just my 2 peso's worth.
Hello, I'm a Kings fan who posts @ StR rather frequently. So today, much to my surprise, I saw the Kings beat writer Sam Amick touch on something interesting today. The Nuggets as a trade partner for Ron Artest? The cynical follower of the NBA in me makes me go huh? That being said ,sure, hell yeah, if it was possible. Here is Tz's take on it.
As far as I go? I'm all for it. My wonder is would Stan Kroenke do it? I've always had the impression the guy was cheap and conservative in some instances. You near the tax; and it's done with. No Mas! However, if Linas Kleiza Eddie Najera and a 1st round pick in the future for Artest would be feasible I say go for it. (Personally I'm not sure Denver would be willing to throw in a 1st to get Artest and lose one of the best pure shooters they have. Particularly after they spent so much to get Iverson.)
The other part that Amick throws out there is dealing for Nene. Personally I think the Kings need to focus on cleaning up their cap and not dealing for a talented albeit, but unfortunately oft hurting big. If Nene was dealt you could see that as a win-win for Denver. You shed a bigger contract and if it doesn't work with Artest there is the high probability he opts out anyway. Personally I want no part of Nene. Never have never really will. He's talented he has abilities, but that's not a guy I really want. Particularly because the cap is so messy for Sac. If it wasn't on the other hand, I would totally roll the dice on Nene. Which of course on the flip side make me wonder why the Nuggets were trading him.
So I ask you Nuggz fans? Would that deal with Artest for Kleiza, Najera and a future 1st interest you? Or does only dealing Nene (I'm ignoring the tumor issue--that has no bearing on this subject for me) interest you? Or is Artest too much of a loony town for your liking?
Everyone chime in and take part in the poll below. Should the Nuggets brign in Artest?
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Deal for Artest?
Trade 1: Najera, Kleiza and a pick for Artest -
I am really torn on trading for Artest. Maybe I can talk myself into one side or the other as I craft my comment.
Anti Trade - On one hand I would be very hesitant to deal Kleiza for Artest. Kleiza is the Nuggets best runner, he is a good chemistry guy and he is improving every game.
Pro Trade - On the other hand, it is clear that the Nuggets are not a championship caliber team right now. In my mind this season was their best shot. With that in mind, Kleiza is a nice player, but is not a high ceiling player. Is Kleiza too much to give up to reestablish the Nuggets as a potential championship team?
Anti Trade - Another issue is I have a difficult time seeing how the Nuggets would match up defensively. Melo or Artest would have to guard the opposing shooting guard. Artest is no longer the lock down defender he once was, but I attribute that more to a lack of desire than a loss of skill.
Pro Trade - Artest does seem to behave himself for a short time when he is sent to a new team. The chance to play for a "championship contender" might get him to fall back in line and play smart and focused basketball.
Verdict - I have talked myself into trading Najera and Kleiza for Artest as long as there is no first round pick involved. I am OK with a second or two seconds, but not a first. We are doing the Kings somewhat of a favor by taking Artest off their hands. Anyway, the reason I do this deal is that I want the Nuggets to win a championship and they have a better shot at going for it this year with Artest than waiting to see how good Kleiza can be in a year or two as Camby and AI grow older.
In my mind the ideal trade would be Najera and J.R. Smith for Artest with a second rounder or two thrown in. Even though Kleiza has less potential than Smith, he is more important to the Nuggets this year than J.R. is and this trade is about this year.
Trade 2: Nene for Artest -
As far as the Nene for Artest deal, if the Nuggets can get the Kings to take Nene, then we need to start looking at uisng that in a deal to get Kidd. The biggest issue keeping the Nuggets out of the Kidd sweepstakes was that they would not be able to clear enough salary. I pointed out of Nene or Kenyon could be included in a deal they could make it work. Kidd is a much better fit for what they need than Artest is.
Also, with the uncertainty of Kenyon staying healthy the Nuggets will most likely need Nene in the future and to be honest, I am not even sure I would trade Nene as part of a deal for Kidd. I think Anthony Carter is Jason Kidd lite. He is a better shooter and defender and he is very adept at passing up the floor to trigger a fast break.
As far as the financial issue with Kronke, I believe he would green light the Artest deal because the reason he is shelling out the million of dollras in luxury tax this season is because he thought this team could win a title. Right now as constituted it cannot. I think he would write the check to bring that chance back into reality.
by Jeremy on Jan 31, 2008 4:54 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
On Artest
I see your point about the 1st's. I think unless the Kings are getting totally inferior players back they're going to have a hard time clearing cap room + a 1st rounder.
As far as Kidd goes he is more of what Denver needs. He doesn't shoot that well from the outside, but he does distribute freeing AI to be even more of a double threat than he is now. I can't see Kidd doing the things Artest does for these followings reasons:
- Artest has defended all 5 positions at one point this year to include players: Baron Davis, Eddy Curry, Carmelo Anthony and a host of other players I'm currently forgetting.
- HIs problem is that he doesn't get the ball enough. With how many possessions he gets with Denver Karl should be able to appease him particularly if he can sell him Denver can go somewhere this year.
- San Antonio has a tough time matching up to him. San Antonio is Denver's difficult nemesis come playoff time. This is, of course, noting that Bonzi Wells gives the Spurs just as much trouble too. Take this for what you will.
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 7:44 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
we might as well put all our chips in...
the nuggets got ai and ai is here to win a championship. artest is a gamble. he could either be the missing piece or he could be a blowup waiting to happen.
fact is, what the man does on the floor is unbelievable. ai would have to move to point, but with artest's extra scoring power and big dawg defense, that doesn't seem bad at all. he could still play about 15 min. at sg when artest is on the bench. that trade (najera and kleiza that is, don't see the nene one happening) basically means we are playing with an all star team. if we can't win a championship with that squad, then it's time to break the boys up. artest is a beast and if sacto would be willing to do that trade i would take it.
my other moves if i were gm would be try to buy out the chuckster and trade jr for delonte west. if you can't win a title with pg: ai, sg: artest, sf: melo, pf: kmart, c: camby, bench: delonte west (filling in 1-3 and playing point, since they would all get 35+ minutes, leaving a four man rotation playing 3 spots) and nene (3 man rotation with kmart and camby playing the bigs), then you are hopeless. well, g karl is hopeless, and i think even HE could do it.
somewhere in the equation we would have to trade for or sign another big man. just a body, though, for when not if injuries happen.
by tom on Jan 31, 2008 4:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
let me clear something up...
this also works with ant carter. it is a would-be playoff rotation...
ai starts at point, artest at sg, melo at sf. artest comes out with 4 min. left in the 1st for ac. melo and ai play the whole first quarter. artest comes in for melo at the end of the 1st. ai takes a blow and melo comes in 3 min. into the 2nd. etc... ai plays the whole 2nd half, like he does now anyway, then it's a 3 player in two spots rotation.
but yea, jeremy, we have to get another serviceable big somehow (steven hunter is not serviceable). i don't know how we would make that happen.
you're worried about lk, i'm really not, because we're getting back a mega-lk, or an lk 3000, or lk cubed. any way, you get the point, artest is better than kleiza, and not by a little. kleiza's gonna be a player, there's no doubt about it, but like you said and i agree, this is a move to try to get a title.
i AM, however, worried about giving up najera. he has been our hero this year. look at his +/- numbers per 100 possessions at 82games.com. according to these #s he is the most valuable nugget (last time i checked ai and camby were just behind him). if we are giving him up we HAVE to get another big man somehow.
how do we pull that off?? is there anyone the kings could throw in to sauce up the deal?? we don't need much, man. just a body. preferably a rather large one...
by tom on Jan 31, 2008 5:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
p.s.
what's up with lk's salary/contract? we have him on the books for next year right?? well, after that it will be tough to re-sign him. he is getting too good and we will be handcuffed for some time if we re-sign iverson. so dumping him now to the kings makes sense. maybe you could say the same about eddie but we still need a body back. UNLESS!!!
artest at the 4??? not with a healthy line-up, but if - i mean when - injuries happen, he might be able to lock it down. i'll go to war with ac, melo, ai, artest, and camby/nene/kmart (whoever is out of the hospital at that moment).
but what do i know about these things. what do ya'll think? help me out nuggs fans...
by tom on Jan 31, 2008 5:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Artest Trade...
I'm also a little hesitant to trade away LK43 and Najera, BUT, what is this team's achilles heel?? (besides injuries...), DEFENSE, Artest is in my opinion still one of the top 5 on-ball defenders in the association (just ask Melo), and our best chance to get out of this Wild Wild West might be with Artest in a Nuggs uniform.
Why not add a defensive minded player to the team already leading the league in steals, blocks, and forced turnovers per game??
It can only help....
by abaca15 on Jan 31, 2008 5:58 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
True, but...
our main concern would be being thin at big. we don't know what's going on with nene, so if we trade eddie that leaves us with kmart and camby, the most durable front court in the nba that will never ever suffer an injury or miss a game as our only two useful bigs. are you comfortable with that?? i'm not. if all 3 bigs are 100% it's a slam dunk deal. but that's just about impossible so we need eddie. are we really helping ourselves getting artest if we end up with a depleted front line??
all that said, i'll take the gamble cuz the team needs help and if nene comes back full strength with camby and kmart doing what they're doing plus ron artest, then the finals has to be the next stop or george karl's head...
all or nothing. let's put the chips in...
by tom on Jan 31, 2008 10:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Tom with the way the Nuggz play
And with the way the Kings play you're essentially going to see Artest play there alot of minutes. That's where I think the Kings think he can help the Nuggz in that respect. I can tell you that the thought of Artest @ the 4 has been floated constantly for the entire time Artest has been in a Kings uni.
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 10:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Najera
I left out any comments I had on Najera in an attempt to be as brief as possible, but he deserves better. Sorry Eddie.
As I have pointed out before Najera is the best cutter the Nuggets have and his absence would be felt when their half court offense is bogging down.
He also provides that scrappy underdog mentality to the Nuggets. The only guys who will get on the floor for a loose ball are Kenyon and Najera.
The Nuggets would miss his grit and effort. As tom pointed out he has great plus minus numbers. According to 82games.com the Nuggets are plus 143 when he is on the floor and they are minus 45 when he is off for a sterling combined +/- of +188.
Eddie would be considerd cap filler in this deal, but he is a good player who would be sorely missed.
Two other results of this trade would be with Artest on the floor the Nuggets would be even more of a isolation team and it would give Karl another excuse to throw into the mix whenever they lose a game. I can hear it now, "What do you expect? We had a major trade go down in the middle of the season. We did not have training camp to get to know each other."
by Jeremy on Jan 31, 2008 11:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy that's just proof
that there is no magic bean stock that is a cure-all. Artest won't solve every Nuggz problem, he'll just solve some. I don't know if his defense will be a pure bonus; Tz had a post a week or two about whether his impact meant much difference in defensive impact. He concluded no. I think the Nuggets & Artest would be doing this to appease AI & Melo with trying to say: "Hey we're trading to make ourselves a damn good team."
Nice blog btw Jeremy. I have enjoyed what I've gotten to read so far.
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 11:59 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy a comment from a veteran poster Otis
I'm guessing
The "Artest at the 4" idea would be better if he was paired with a big-time shotblocker/rebounder at the 5. Brad has been decent this year, but I'm not sure he fits the bill long-term.
For what it's worth Jeremy I've always liked Eddie dating back to his OU days. The guy has just flat out worked his ass to stay in the L. Not an easy feat for anybody.
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2008 12:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Najera
The other thing to keep in mind as a quirky side note about Najera is that he is the Michael Jordan of Mexico. He makes a ton of money in endorsements from our neighbor to the south. Whatever team he is playing for can look forward to a boost in revenue although I doubt it is quite as big as what Yao makes for Houston and Yi brings in for Milwaukee.
by Jeremy on Feb 1, 2008 12:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
There won't be a shortage of supporters for Eddie
in the evil cowntown Jeremy I can promise you that. Even Marcos Breton (a local columnist--current metro columnist former sports columnist--will like to talk about him) will like Eddie.
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2008 1:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
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