Does Denver actually have depth?
by danjustin386 on Feb 2, 2012 3:30 PM MST
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PrintI was getting frustrated by Karl's rotation and the perceived lack of using our depth so I decided to look at the stats. Listed below is the top 9 teams in the Western Conference and the % of minutes the player has played in. I only included players who have played in more than 10% (No one else on Denver is >3 while most have few guys >5 but <10)
What are your opinions on the info?
| Denver | Dallas | San Antonio | Lakers | Utah | Clippers | ||||||||||||
| Gallinari | 70% | Terry | 61% | Parker | 68% | Bryant | 80% | Millsap | 64% | Griffin | 76% | ||||||
| Lawson | 63% | Marion | 60% | Jefferson | 64% | Gasol | 78% | Jefferson | 60% | Butler | 66% | ||||||
| Miller | 62% | Nowitzki | 52% | Duncan | 53% | Bynum | 57% | Hayward | 56% | Jordan | 64% | ||||||
| Afflalo | 55% | Kidd | 48% | Leonard | 50% | Fisher | 54% | Harris | 53% | Billups | 56% | ||||||
| Harrington | 52% | Haywood | 45% | Blair | 48% | Barnes | 43% | Bell | 47% | Paul | 51% | ||||||
| Nene | 50% | Odom | 45% | Splitter | 44% | WorldPeace | 41% | Watson | 43% | Williams | 46% | ||||||
| Fernandez | 38% | West | 44% | Green | 40% | Blake | 30% | Favors | 40% | Foye | 44% | ||||||
| Mozgov | 33% | Mahinmi | 42% | Bonner | 38% | Murphy | 29% | Miles | 39% | Gomes | 36% | ||||||
| Brewer | 28% | Carter | 34% | Neal | 31% | McRoberts | 27% | Howard | 34% | Evans | 23% | ||||||
| Andersen | 25% | Beaubois | 29% | Anderson | 21% | Kapono | 17% | Kanter | 29% | Cook | 12% | ||||||
| Koufos | 15% | Cardinal | 17% | Ford | 16% | Ebanks | 15% | Burks | 23% | Jones | 10% | ||||||
| Joseph | 13% | Morris | 13% | ||||||||||||||
| Ginobili | 12% | Goudelock | 10% | ||||||||||||||
| Thunder | Portland | Houston | |||
| Durant | 77% | Aldridge | 76% | Lowry | 67% |
| Westbrook | 70% | Felton | 69% | Martin | 66% |
| Harden | 61% | Matthews | 68% | Scola | 63% |
| Perkins | 56% | Wallace | 67% | Dalembert | 51% |
| Ibaka | 54% | Batum | 51% | Parsons | 46% |
| Collison | 42% | Crawford | 51% | Dragic | 41% |
| Sefolosha | 41% | Camby | 41% | Budinger | 37% |
| Cook | 29% | Thomas | 35% | Patterson | 37% |
| Mohammed | 27% | C.Smith | 23% | Hill | 30% |
| Jackson | 17% | Lee | 29% | ||
| Maynor | 15% | Williams | 15% | ||
My thoughts? I am greatly surprised to see we are using our 7th/8th/9th/10th man just as much or less than anyone else. Meaning we are not taking advantage of spreading the minutes around. Also hard to argue our 9th/10th guys are playing better than other 9th/10th guys. Also could argue that we are not the deepest team in the West based on these numbers.....
So my question is do we actually have depth? Or is Karl not spreading minutes around evenly enough (relying on AAA, Miller to much)? Or we not using the right players (insert Manimal reference)?
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
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Depth Perception
I found it a tad difficult to follow your logic, maybe a more simplistic way to analyze;
I ranked the same top WC teams by number of players with double digit minutes who have played in at least 14 games
Denver -11
SA-11
Utah-11
Dallas-10
Lakers-10
OKC-10
Houston-10
Clippers-9
Portland-9
Wasn’t too surprised to find Denver, San Antonio & Utah with at least 1 more than the rest and that the Clippers and Portland only had 9.
Like rest of the Nuggets fan, we would all like to see Manimal get more PT.
Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.
I would say the fact that Troy Murphy is at 29%, Randy Foye is at 44%, Wesley Matthews (who would be the 5th best guard for the Nuggets) is over 60%, and Jordan Hill is at 30% while their counterparts in the Denver rotation are significantly better does show the Nuggets’ depth.
i keep dancing on my own.
Data was from 82games
I just took every player with a % greater than 10. And looking at your calcs….isn’t it surprising that we really are almost dead even with 6 of the 8 other contenders? I figured Denver’s depth (as talked about all over ESPN today) would actually come out on paper, but it hasn’t yet.
And as I said…it is hard to make an argument that we are better further down the bench.
Mosgov /Birdman have very similar metrics to Troy Murphy. And that’s what concerns me, shouldn’t our 8th man be much better than Troy Murphy? (but they have not been much better so far)
Matthews rating is also very high and his on court impact is similar to Big Al, who is our most impactful player.
danjustin386
The bench trio of Rudy/Andre/Harrington is the best in the league outside of possibly Philly’s Lou Will/Thad/Evan Turner.
If I remember correctly the 82games overall ratings include a hefty dose of on-court/off court analysis which is incredibly unreliable over this kind of sample size as well. I think where people get the “depth” thing from is that there are no total clunkers in the top 8, they all have above average PERs (except Mozgov who’s defensive contributions don’t really show up). Every other rotation except OKC’s and maybe Dallas has some serious garbage in it. Gouldelock, MWP, Raymond Felton at the moment (or any of Portland’s guards), any of the Clippers bench guys… those teams would kill for one of Denver’s bench guys. Now Karl doesn’t distribute the minutes like some would like, but there’s not doubt that the 5-8th guys for Denver are the most talented in the West. And Troy Murphy is terrible.
i keep dancing on my own.
Yeah our bench rules
There’s almost not enough minutes to go around because we’re easily 8 deep – probably 9 deep and that’s including Faried in the fray.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I think the best way to look at depth on this team is to look at the depth of the starting five.
Our highest scoring player is averaging 17.5 ppg. That is our scoring leader folks. And yet, without an elite scorer on the team we still have the second best record in the Western Conference. This speaks to our enviable ability to have any player on the team be the best player on the floor any given night. How many other teams can you say that about? We are winning games, and we are doing it without any big name superstars. That to me shows we have depth, regardless of what the numbers say about minutes.
Never let them see you bleed.
My shit always works sometimes.
by the_prodigal_fan on Feb 3, 2012 2:56 PM MST reply actions
Every Nuggets player has his own role
and they fill up to their role better than most players do. It isn’t just about scoring, but doing the other things on the court, which all of our players do admirably. We have a top 10 defense and a top 5 offense, and a lot of that has to do with the versatility of our bench.
I’m not sure if I follow your logic here though, it seems like the message is poorly delivered or just does not really make sense to me as a reader.
"I do not threaten, I merely state facts"
Denverstiffs- home of the most bipolar fan base on the internet
OKC guard Reggie Jackson's goal in life is to make it on Wikipedia's disambiguation list.
Nuggs are good but we need a last second shooter
We don’t have one. That guy you would say I want him to have the ball with 1 second left. It is a handy asset to have.
We have some balance and talent for sure but
we dont have the depth that pundits think we have
At Center, we start a very raw Russky who we see good signs from but has a ways to go. KK is an OK back up. Where’s the depth there?
At PF we have a nice player in Nene, who will never get any better. I am thrilled with Al’s play so far but we cant be sure it will continue.
At SF is where most of our hope lies. Gallo has to become a very good player (he’s close) and steady (he’s not close here). Where’s our depth here? Al is pulling double duty at substitute forward and Rudy is a back up, pure and simple. Brewer has impressed but not played enough so far.
At SG we have virtually zilch so far. I love AAA but is anyone confident that he will become a positive force? Who back him up? Rudy, like Al, doing double duty. WQhere’s our depth here? even our stasrter has been bad.
At PG is the only place that there is depth and talent but even here Miller and/or Ty are doing duty as SG.
I see talent but the idea that we have amazing depth doesnt appear to be so.
We’ve won on the backs of the very efficient performances of Gallo, Miller, Ty and Al.
That is why we need to develop Mozgov and add Chandler. With a Center who is consistent we will be able to compete with anyone.
With Will’s flexibility, we will be able to withstand some injuries, and slumps that even our better players can suffer through from positions 2 – 4.
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