Cloudy Notion: Is Ty Lawson T.J. Ford 2.0?

I think it is an ok comparison. I think this would be a worse case scenario though. Like Scott Hastings said one night, and Pusherman, I have always thought Ty has the potential to be a Tony Parker like player, if he gets the right mentality. He needs to learn he can drive by defenders whenever he wants.

I have felt some fear that we’re hoping for too much from Lawson, and this thoughtful analysis certainly add to it.

When is he going to be due for an extension? Is that next season?

As I told ParkHillNative in the game recap thread…Ty is just timid in general. Timid players refuse to drive to the hole and draw contact. This has plagued Ty since his entry into the NBA and I don’t expect it to change. Ty ran a half court set fine in college. He just is who he is…a player that needs to be reminded to be aggressive.

That stunts his development more than running ever would

I’m guessing if you looked at all the point guards with similar numbers through three years, the vast majority went on to have very productive careers. I think Ty will settle into being a consistent 18-7 guy. Even better if he develops an effective mid-range game.

given the fact that ford nearly DIED on the court and has never been the same since then.

i, like the rest of you, have been underwhelmed by his play and andre’s for that matter (the latter of which can clearly be attributed to g.k. overplaying andre and usually against bigger stronger players), and ty definitely needs to get some consistency in his attacking style, but the only t.j. ford you can compare him to is the pre-injury t.j. ford who was a damned good player.

i’m afraid with ty though, that he is intimidated by contact. which is amplified by a recent ankle injury and when the calls aren’t being made, thus he was frozen by the physical play of marion and the impending hackage of driving against a long dallas team, so he relegated himself to the guy in the corner, rather than driving and drawing contact or driving and kicking out for uncontested threes (not something the nuggets are fond of shooting, in favor of contested, one on one heaves, usually after hesitating or without their feet set)

it should be noted that when we have a lineup of ty andre bird al and aaa out there (or really any lineup without nene to post up or without utilizing kosta to post up… since they wont.), there is no reason whatsoever for the opponent to unclog the lane, since the only affective post player amongst them is andre, who would be up against a 2 guard in this all too common scenario.

conclusion: ty needs to attack all the time he is in the game. in order to do this, g.k. needs to spell ty when he tires with andre, and not over (ever) use andre WITH ty so that he can be effective backing ty up (not to mention the well documented perimeter defensive problems, and rebounding improbability small ball creates). everyone, esPECially aaa need to be instructed to box out their man and hit the boards on defense instead of leaking out on the fast break. we have plenty of guys who are superior finishers to him that can get up and down the court ahead of their opponant without leaking out early, and we are giving up far too many defensive rebounds on the perimeter off of long bounces. he should average 6 boards a game. i think he’s closer to one. we can run JUST FINE without leaking out and you need to rebound to fast break any way.

reality: g.k. is too stubborn to go with obvious, conventional wisdom and instead will chide ty for being non aggressive and inconsistent, the rookies for not being seasoned veterans, and j.r. smith for being alive rather than putting his players in the best situation to succeed and follow his otherwise logical directions.

You can’t just compare numbers and say hey, some numbers are similar and they play similar styles, they must have the same career path!

First, Ford never played the 04/05 season, so you might want to change that in your numbers to 05/06.
Second, Ford had a major spinal injury and then a couple years later was carted off the court! That second injjury changed his career forever.
Third, both in Milwaukee and in Toronto, Ford was replaced because each team found a better pg (Mo Williams and Jose Calderon, respectively)
Fourth, you totally ignore the minutes disparity in their first two seasons, they averaged similar numbers but Lawson was playing on average about 8 minutes less a game.

This is a knee jerk reaction, yes Lawson had a bad game last night but comparing him to TJ Ford is a little soon don’t you think?

Wasn’t TJ ford a starter from day one in the nba before the injuries(55 games wiki tells me)? Lawson didn’t get starters minutes until billups left, that kind of skews things a little doesn’t it?

also Ford sat out the entire 04-05 season, you might have made a typo their

Not sure where I fall on the Lawson question, though I tend to at least agree with Jeff that Ty is who he is. We rabid fans often have the pie-in-the-sky hope that a given player will develop a more desirably well-rounded, complete game. All the while, staring us in the face, is the fact that no one becomes something or someone he is not. Can you say “Nene?” I know you can.

Cloudy, as a big fan of what I’ve seen as OKC’s fearsome depth, I wonder if your contention that the Nuggets are deeper than OKC is based on your statistical look at the two benches’ performance. I’m not asking you to detail it for us, as I have no doubt that’s a ton of work. But is it just your general opinion—because mine is quite different—or could you back it up with the numbers if you cared to? Thanks.

By the way, let me get away with asking my question based on Maynor’s inclusion in OKC’s lineup. IMO, they lost a serious advantage at PG when he went down.

But what he can be? Mugsy.

And K-Mart gave a little some somethin.

Jeff is right in saying that Ty is what he is, but just like we’ve come to understand Nene, passive players can take you only so far. I’ve been on the Ty isn’t the answer for a month now. we need a floor general, who steps up to the moment rather than run away. Lawson is not the answer and needs to be moved for someone who can become that aggressive floor general who can take us deep in the playoffs. If we don’t trade him now, his value will only get worse!!!

stinking the crap out of this game. Good riddance.

I see the comparison, but I believe Ty will prove the greater. He needs to stay as healthy as possible.

you could just as well say he will become Chris Paul. Likely neither is true but right now it’s all hypotehtical. Lawson is matching Ford statistically, well he probably is matching about 100 other PGs who have come through the NBA statistically as well through 3 years. I have a feeling this post wouldn’t be here if Ty had played better yesterday. But the kneejerking is a quintessential stiff thing. But the post is at least well researched and presented, so good job CB, but obviously my answer is: hell no.

You can match up Lawson, Van Excel (noted above by All Day Jay) and TJ Ford statistically and the they do look very similar. But in reality they are three very different players with contrasting styles that impact the game in different ways.

TJ Ford is not nearly as strong as Lawson. Seemed like more of a pass-first darting drive the lane guy before his injury.

Nick the Quick was a cold blooded streak shooter who passed-second.

And I guess we’re starting to figure out who Ty is. Take away the stats and he doesn’t remind me much at all of the other two.

Whatever deficits Ty has though, I’d take him in a heart beat over a healthy TJ Ford.

no I do not think Ty Lawson is FOrd 2.0

That’s how it is for a guy in his position. Either you run offense or you get out of the way for someone who does. I like him so I hope he takes control soon.