Poll: How do we feel about George Karl?
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 11, 2012 9:59 AM MST
Email
Print
As of this writing, the Nuggets have lost 7 of their last 8 games, and are preparing to face the pacers this afternoon.
Including the pacers game, there are 8 games left prior to the All Star Game. I came into this season expecting that Karl would be given a full season and playoffs, and that if he made it out of the first round he would keep his job at least another year. The compressed season played a large role in that thinking, that it would be difficult to switch horses in the middle of such a rapidly moving screen. Also, I believe G.K. is very good at office politics and watched him lay down a foundation of excuses for failure before the season started. It
is fair to say that I am and have been one of the harshest Karl critics around. I have changed my thinking on Karl quite a bid amid the recent losing streak. It looks to me that he is in danger of losing the team, that we are thisclose to one of the players yelling at him to not just sit there during the second half of yet another losing effort. I don't believe he is playing the players in the way that Masai envisioned when he built this roster, and that behind the scenes Masai may be very frustrated with his coach. (Pure speculation on my part, no basis in fact).
The compressed schedule and injuries have certainly been a factor this season but, as KFH said yesterday, many of us were complaining about the problems with the coaching well before the losing streak started. Last year I was ridiculed at the end of the season when I said they had been playing like crap the last 15 games and would get their asses handed to them in the playoffs. The same things were said this year when I was complaining about the poor coaching before the losing streak.
I think we all know that some of us want Karl removed as early as possible, whatever the cost. Others would keep Karl here indefinitely, as we fans are unfit to judge coaching until we have at least 1,000 wins. I want to gauge roughly where the fans are right now in terms of keeping or firing Karl. If I miss an option that represents you, please choose other and put it in the comments.
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
35 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I would
Give gk until the allstar break to figure his shit out, mostly his horrendous lineups and if the nuggets aren’t back to the top 4 or 5 in the west like they should be then I would give Sloan a serious look. This roster is built perfectly for Sloan. No head cases, no superstar egos just a bunch of coachable players with gobs of talent. This team needs discipline with its youth and Sloan brings that as well as far better lineups. He groomed Derron Williams into a superstar pg and I have no reason to believe he couldn’t do the same with Ty. We will see what happens but if I were Maasai I would put Karl on a short leash and let that be known to him right now before this game.
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Gary_Gomer
Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
It's about defense, making sense of the rotations and in-game situation coaching
As a former fan of the man, I voted to give him until the break. It’s not necessarily about how many wins we get between now and then. It’s about approach.
Do we look competitive? Do we look like we have a leader at the helm who puts us in the best position to compete, no matter what that might mean in any set of circumstances?
Are we making adjustments to address those glaring defensive weaknesses, particularly perimeter defense?
Can we mount something effective to get a bucket or ten in the half court?
And all the while, can we utilize the depth we have as we develop players for the very near future when they’ll be needed to get us to the next level?
Sounds like a reasonable job description for an NBA coaching staff with a team in the Nuggets’ position. Let’s go Karl, and let’s go Nuggets!
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 11, 2012 11:54 AM MST reply actions
Do people not realize that the injuries could be due to his rotations and refusal to use his depth?
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
Gallos
Was a sprained ankle that could have happened to anyone at any time but nene and aaas injuries are prob due to that
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Gary_Gomer
Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
by NastyNessy71 on Feb 11, 2012 4:28 PM MST up reply actions
I also feel like his rotations or lack of caused some injuries
Any decent track coach will tell you if you keep running when you are exhausted you have a greater chance at injury and your recovery time is much longer. When guys on the floor are so obviously tired why wouldn’t you put some fresh legs out there. To me Karl is stupid in this area.
I like the idea of change coaches now because I do not believe this team is going very far this season. Maybe first round of the playoffs and probably that’s it. Might as well start with the new coach now so that game of of next season isn’t a learning experience. Instead they could treat the rest of this season as the learning experience and come flying out of the gate next year.
I know Sloan also has a great coaching record/history but to be fair he does not have any championships either.
good points by all so far
karl is not the coach that can that the Nuggets to the championship… 8 years is enough evidence… this was supposed to be the year we see how good karl is as a coach, because there ia no more drama and melo, no AI, and no more excuses…he was supposed to mold this team, but all I see is another wasted year…one and done at best… so I would to fire him now but his cancer does buy him some time… hopefully he is out at the end of the year if he continues to coach (or not) the same way…btw karl, you cannot carry timeouts ovee to the next game
by LEEDS on Feb 11, 2012 4:09 PM MST via Android app reply actions
sorry for few typos
typing on an iphone sucks
by LEEDS on Feb 11, 2012 4:16 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
I voted that he'd go if the Nugs lose in the 1st round of the playoffs
but really, I bet he’ll end up coaching the team for another season or two at least. Not really what I want, but that’s what I’m afraid is gonna happen.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
Of the regular posters
I’m probably one of the biggest Karl boosters. I really like his offensive philosophy, etc.
That said, I’ve got a ton of issues with him. I don’t mind small ball, as it can put points on the board fast, but I will join others in criticizing Karl when he leaves a small line-up in when it isn’t scoring points and giving up a lead and rebounds to a bigger line-up.
And, of course, the rotations. I’ve been on Karl and his limited rotations since I started posting here two + years ago. And here’s my beef: You want to play fast and run run run? Great. Just know that when you do that players are going to get tired quicker and start slacking on defense so they can expend energy on defense.
The solution is simple: use that fucking deep bench, for crying out loud! Run fast, score points, and when that’s not working, rotate players in a bit quicker.
My other complaint: Be better at a half-court offense, because you can’t run all the time. And protect leads by having a rebounder in with every unit. Yes. This means more Faried.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Speaking of your points
Whatever happened to the idea of rotating two five man units and wearing down the other team with constant energy? Instead of 7 and 8 man rotations?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 12, 2012 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
Well
Most teams don’t have that sort of depth.
I think the Nuggets do and find it perplexing that GK is sticking to his tight rotations.
I keep going back to the idea of hockey. Each line is only on the ice for two minutes or so, going fast and giving their all until they are beat and then they run off the ice and a new, fresh unit comes on and rocks and rolls.
If Karl wants to run, run. Just don’t run players into the ground. Again. I love the idea. Just am perplexed with the execution.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
My answer would be between option #4 and #5
Karl is a good coach, and injuries have taken a toll on the team. Like all teams, some of our players have been playing through slumps. Don’t think just blaming the players or the coach exclusively makes sense, as it is a combination there of that has contributed to it.
Karl’s contract makes it unlikely for him to be let go this season. If the team is disappointing this year, and continues the struggle into the ASG next season I would have no problem letting him go. He’d only have 1.5 years left on his contract at that point, and then it would be somewhat feasible.
I could only see him being let go this season if the team is a complete and utter failure (middle of the lotto), to the point where it is clear the team did not respond to them. They are not at that point yet. Will see how they can close out games before the ASG. Should go on a streak in March-April as well.
question for you and everyone here is...
are you happy with another one and done playoffs?
until he proves me wrong, I can’t see Karl winning in the playoffs and taking us t the championsip. Rememeber, we don’t have CB to save his ass in the playoffs. No Melo to close out games liek he did against Dallas that year…so our hopes in the playoffs are rest on karl’s coaching ability…which is what he wanted…well, he’s got the team with no real BIG egos….let’s see how good he really is
Irrelevant question
Even though I have doubts that he won’t be able to win in the playoffs (that have more to do with the team’s personnel then Karl to be honest), it is completely unrealistic to fire Karl with more then two seasons on his contract. He likely has a $3 million per contract per season. Signing another coach like Larry Brown will cost at least that much.
Do the Nuggets really have the resources to pay two coaches between likely $6-8 million?
Just don’t complain about ticket prices skyrocketing if they go that route…
i dont own the team
so the cost of karl’s contract is irrelevant in this discussion…i am stating my opinion on whther karl needs to be fired or not based on his coaching and not his contract…also keep in kind that 6 million to a billionaire is chump change…if KSE really wants karl gone..he’ll be gone…but again this is a fan’s site to express opinions…you can like karl..that’s fine…alot of us are fed up with him
by LEEDS on Feb 13, 2012 5:07 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
That's like saying
Nene’s contract is irrelevant to my view of him as a player. I don’t even like Karl really, just think it’s a bad financial decision and basically a knee-jerk reaction based on mainly tons of injuries hitting us at once.
The anti-Karl people are really confrontational about their view on the topic as well.
And I don’t want Brown, but a lot of people mention him that’s for sure.
you can like karl
i dont care…and if u think KSE doesnt have resources then u are mistaken…like i said u can support him…alot of us are fed up…
also nene got overpaid…for a player u judge based on his production relative to costs…nene under produces…and he has 4 more years..if bowlen can pay three coaches all at once then KSE can pay two if they want to…
by LEEDS on Feb 13, 2012 5:20 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Bowlen fired McDaniels
When he went 5-18 over nearly two seasons after he decided he couldn’t get along with any of Denver’s ‘star’ offensive players/a successful defensive coordinator. AND after the whole filming another team’s practice (that still beat Denver, regardless). Don’t really see how those situations are even remotely comparable.
Obviously, the team can afford to pay it but it isn’t good business UNLESS the team goes through a stretch like that. I’ve fully advocated Karl’s removal in that situation (hanging around the middle of the lotto).
If ownership fired coaches at the whim of fans, then there would be a new coach every couple weeks. Can’t count how many Bronco fans felt they should fire John Fox on a game to game basis.
Take out the Tebowmaniacs
And that number goes down considerably.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 13, 2012 9:15 PM MST up reply actions
I think Karl is perfectly capable of winning in the playoffs.
I think the Nuggets poor track record in the playoffs has more to do with poor matchups and bad luck than coaching.
A big deal was made how GK is a regular season coach, as if regular season winning doesn’t mean anything. And I think it does. The Nuggets lone year of good playoff basketball had everything to do with the Nuggets getting a No. 2 seed that year. That helped a lot.
Of course, the way the Nuggets are playing right now, seeding is going to be an issue. They may well end up with an unfavorable matchup. Could well one and done again. Is that the coach’s fault that a brutal stretch of scheduling and injuries hit at once? Nah.
But there is plenty of blame to pin on Karl. You guys who are critical aren’t entirely wrong. I just temper my criticisms.
cheers!
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Fly..
its called frustration…passionate frustration with seeing the same thing over and over…
1. small ball (good for only a short period of time) having Typlay the “2” at 5’11 is crazy because it takes him out what he does best andput Miller on a taller “2” for defense,a nd we all know how Miller is SLOOOOOWWWW.
1a. Karl thinks he is out-smarting everyone with his small ball but it truth, esp in the 4th, he is purposely creating defensive mis-matches for US by playing small ball cost us several games this year. ..
2. poor in-game coaching…not using timeouts. PHil doesn’t have to use timeout when he has Kobe in the game…we don’t have a Kobe type player…and all of you Karl supporters are saying that we’re a young team…well a young team needs coaching and needs a coach to call timeouts when the other team is on a run…STOP the OTHER TEAM’S MOMENTUM…surely Karl can do that….also I have been noticing the past few weeks that we have been losing after timeouts…case in point against Indy, when they call a timeout they would cut into our lead pretty quickly…where’s the coaching?
3. having a deep bench for once and not using it…going to his “trust” guys when clearly it might not be working on that night…not using our length (its not like we got stiffs who can’t run the floor)…we got rookies who can play…also, I laugh everything he trots out 4 guards and Big Al…really?
4. not having any real half-court sets…or like CB said, not having any inbound plays…in the playoffs, team WON’T let us run…hasn’t he figured that out yet? In the playoffs, scoring goes down because players actually care and the defenses are tougher to score on…
5. throwing his players under the bus in the media (it’s ok to chew a player out, heck I want that, but that has to be done in the locker room)…when I played in college, I remember how my coach threw a player under the bus after a tough loss, and we started to slowly stop listening to him…players (you, me or anyone) we don’t like EVERYONE to know what we did wrong, it’s not like we can say well coach the play you designed sucked against the 1-3-1 defense…
those are some of the frustrating things about Karl…and finally, we do NOT have a winning record against the west…so what makes anyone think we will do well in the playoffs this year?
In my perfect world, Karl would not have had a contract extension and he would not be coaching now. However, I will grant you that Karl has to stay the entire season and let this play out once again.
To all of the Karl supporters, I do know basketball and I do know Nuggets basketball. I am still not sure what makes you more qualified than me to write my thoughts on the coaching and this team…sure some of you played JV basketball in high school…awesome! But we all have different ideas on winning basketball…for me, you can’t teach height and length especially height that can run…I value more of a tradition rotation and do not like two PGs in at the same time when both PG are 6’3 and under. I believe if you want to run, then the whole team has to run and that substitution patterns needs to support that…meaning more frequent subbing throughout the game, especially in the first 3 quarters… I also believe that a coach can control the flow of the game by using his timeouts…I also believe that a coach needs to put his players in the best position to succeed meaning you can’t play a player in a position that they are not accustomed to (i.e Stone at SF or Big AL at C)
Again, I will respectfully agree to disagree with all of the Karl supporters…I hope you all enjoy mediocrity with another one and done if Karl continues to coach the way he has so far…
Have a nice day
Yup
A lot of these criticisms are totally valid. I share many of these criticisms.
One point, though: I don’t think Karl is as terrible with the time-outs as a lot of people here think he is.
Playing on television means that there are a lot of regularly scheduled breaks each half for commercials. Sometimes it makes sense to play through this than burn a time out which could be critical in the fourth quarter. Plus, you want those time outs available for your players to bail them out of possible turnovers: loose ball scrambles, falling out of bounds, etc.
Of course, I can think of some times where Karl was slow to make a time out, so I’m not saying he’s perfect, just saying I think the mystical ability to stop a run by the other team is a bunch of hooey. Playing better defense and scoring points is how you stop runs. And yes, a time out is a smart move some times to get a breather and the right personnel on the court.
I totally agree with you about running and substitution patterns to keep fresh legs in the game. Agree with you about how Karl uses the media to play mind games with players, etc.
Always appreciate the perspective.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Fly,
The TV timeouts aren’t free. They charge them to the teams, based on whose turn it is. If a team calls a timeout manually, they turn it into one of the TV timeouts. Basically, Karl always ends up calling a timeout or being charged with one by the automatic TV timeout. The difference is that Karl allows a 6 point run to balloon to 10 to 12 points before using it.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
George believes
You CAN take it with you. He’s gonna have like 5,000 timeouts when he starts his next life.
Did not know that
Still don’t think time outs are that magical.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
I would have to agree
based solely on the fact that once the playoffs hit, it doesn’t become, say, dogsled racing or some completely different sport. Karl has to make some adjustments going into a grinding playoff atmosphere, but they only need to be minor ones. It’s still basketball, and a running style can win, IMO, but there has to be some preparation for some of the subtle changes that occur.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss. But currently slumming in a high-level management position.
by love4nuggets on Feb 14, 2012 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
I'd take Sloan over Karl as well, but...
Sloan was notorious for playing structured half court offense and didn’t really let his guys run if I recall those 90’s-00’s Jazz teams correctly. This style would take away one of our teams greatest strengths.
Having said that, a pick & roll offense centered around Ty and Nene with AAA and Gallo spotting up would definitely be an interesting proposition
Homework Assignment
For all those that think Karl doesn’t use his timeouts, over the next 5 games that are within 10 points win or lose check to see how many he has left. I’m guessing in those close games he uses almost all of them. In the blowouts one way or the other probably not. I don’t know the stat off hand but I’m guessing it’s another overblown complaint.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 5:34 PM MST reply actions
What the hell happend to the FIRE GEORGE CARL BLOG???
Regardless of George Carl being a good head coach he is a stuborn ol man who needs to be fired, I dont care if the nuggets win or lose tonights game in OKC im watching it in OT rite now, George Carl has to play the worst lineups possible and he has the depth to still playgood lineups but he’s so stuborn he’d rather give up 6inchs to Kevin Durrant and let the 6’11 SF take wide open looks over the 6’5 SG Aaron Afflalo, Corey Brewer was playing good Defense on KD, I have no idea in hell what George Carl is thinking, Im almost ready to stop watching Denver Nuggets Basketball Due to the frustration I feel from watching these rediculous midget linups Carl continues to play and lose with!!! He’s a F#@%ING IDIOT!!!!!!!!
FIRE THIS MAN HE WILL NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP
THE ONLY WAY THE NUGGETS SHOULD KEEP CARL IS IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO BE ELIMINATED EVERY YEAR IN THE 1ST ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS
I agree...I still do not understand his support...
honestly, it probably has alot to do with his personal story of beating cancer
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Andrew Feinstein
(denverstiffs@gmail.com)
Nate Timmons
(ntimmons73@yahoo.com)
NBA Playoffs Content Module
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
DENVER STIFFS T-SHIRTS!
Enter your email for updates
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Spurs won Game 1 with an inspired fourth quarter
- Kendrick Perkins does not think much of Andrew Bynum’s relative intelligence
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
