Fire George Karl, please!!!!
by not_karl on Feb 1, 2012 5:25 AM MST
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After watching last nights game, i realized the Nuggets will never be more than a first round playoff team. This is because of Hot Karl. The man's abject intractableness, stupidity, and uncreative rotations are anathema to this team. Look at the roster, one through 12 he has inherited the most talent of any Denver, Karl coached team thus far. It is infuriating to see him outwitted and out coached by the likes of Hollins and Del Negro. In the beginning of the season Karl found that a small line up has the potential to outrun and outgun many teams (most with losing records) en route to victory. A strategy he has advocated for several years. However, any coach with even a modicum of problem solving simply has his team sprint back and defend the fast break. We saw this in the Clippers game and Grizzlies games. Basically any team that wants to beat the Nuggets is guard the paint (our guard's outside shooting his woefully awful) and turn it into a half court game and out rebound. Thats it. That is all it takes to beat a George Karl coached team. Despite having 2 seven footers, a super talented rebounding machine rookie, and mis-matches with height up and down the roster (if players are played at their natural positions), Karl routinely plays his 3 or 4 guard lineups. If Karl really thinks this is the way to win games against teams without a losing record, or how to win a playoff game; he is sadly mistaken. If idiot george is serious about this strategy, than I suggest he goes all in, trade Manimal, Koufos, Moz, for three more speedy guards. If playing undersized at every position is his key to victory; than prove it to us George. Good coaches build trust, adapt, evolve and put players in positions to win. Hot Karl makes an entertaining game the same way its fun to see a midget versus a giant wrestling match but clearly he has no idea on how to coach a top tier NBA game. Fire George now!
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
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I Agree
I am very tired of his stubbornness. Denver has a deep roster but we fail to use it. We actually have height and length but we fail to use it. We have a potential rebounding machine in a rookie but according to Karl, rookies are too stupid to pick up his basketball concepts. Really, Karl, Really? How hard is it to pick up the pick/roll with Nene? Uh, sorry, Faried won’t be in any pick and roll opportunities so it should be easy for him to stay out of the way and crash the boards on offense. On Defense, really, rotating is that difficult? It can’t be any more difficult for the guys that you are playing.
Also Karl, quit trying to be Zen-like with all of your "karma" and "positive-ness" crap. This isn’t about spirituality, It’s about winning basketball games. Why he consistently puts the Nugs in a defensive mis-matches is beyond me, especially in crunch time. Someone wrote that we could be 17-3 if he made the right decisions. I tend to agree with that. We cannot continue to go with 3 guard lineups (especially if 2 of the guards are small PGs) for a long period of time. Our guys looked tired towards the end of the game and yet he fails to sub in Gallo or Mozgov when we need a defensive rebound. I also want him to tell Nene to quit bitching about ever little bump to the ref and just play the game. Man up Nene! The more you complain the less the refs will listen.
Last night’s game was a perfect example of why GK is not a championship coach!
tired of it
Thats the worst part, knowing we have enough talent and depth to destroy these teams and yet its not utilized through his hubris. If Karl would have put in Farried perhaps Dante Cunningham doesn’t keep picking up easy offensive rebounds that led to some of those back breaking 3’s. By his own small ball philosophy, how great would faried have done running the 3 position collecting rebounds instead of a useless and horribly ineffectve AAA? The worst part is, opposing coaches know going in exactly what Karl is going to do, and yet when karl’s strategy (if you can call it that) stops working he sticks with it. Experiment a little, tinker with the line-ups…get over the rookie bullshit. Use your tools, karl sends his players each game already at a disadvantage like fighting with one arm…yet continues to blame his players for his absolute ineptidude and failure to adapt or evolve his game plane. Also since he clearly never intends to use his rookies, we should just trade away every draft pick for the tenure of Karl for seasoned 10 year plus players since that is the only player he intends to use. Arg!!!!!
+1000
it’s just sad to see our best team get wasted by GK… I’m utterly tired of this. this team with sloan will compete for the title NO QUESTION ASKED!!!
He's arrogant and out of date
It’s indicative by his hair.
He should go fully bald and shave his head instead being 3/4 bald with those two mounds
Just like he should have played Gallo but he didn’t because he thought he had the right personnel in the game.
No sense
The NBA team (Barkley, et. al.) stated that Karl is the best coach since Jackson retired from LA. What team do you coach?
by Charles R. Murray on Feb 1, 2012 11:02 AM MST reply actions
Barkley and George Karl are a lot alike
NO CHAMPIONSHIPS
Who the fuc listens to the TNT clowns any way
Glad you made it clear with your SN
that you are not Karl. Otherwise, I definitely would have thought you were him.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 11:42 AM MST reply actions
I've been wondering about this since the playoff exit last year.
Hoe long do you have to wait after somebody overcomes something like Karl did to get rid of him without being seen as inconsiderate?
Look at Karl’s career: good regular season teams that could nver pull it out in the playoffs. 23 years in, it’s not just a coincidence, it’s who his teams are.
Beyond that, his reliance on small line-ups (despite having a very versatile roster that can match up with any type of team) is mind boggling. Where the hell was Danilo at the end of the game last night? Karl has proven time and again that, if given a veteranny point guard (remember AC?), he will play him in tight situations, regardless of how he’s getting lit up (Miller by Chauncy two games ago) on D or taking shots he shouldn’t on O.
I also think he’s among the worst coaches in the league at how/when he uses his time outs. He always waits until afte the opposing team has completed their run, rather than cutting it before the momenum really gets out of hand. I can’t even count how many times the Nugs have been up by ~10 points and a time out isn’t called until the lead is completely gone or the other team takes the lead.
The other thing, which is just a pet peave of mine: his courtside demeaner during games (defeated, moping, disbelief) rather than showing a little fire and encouragement . . . I would find it hard to play for a coach like that.
Anyway, personal rant over. Good rant yourself.
by blooming rock on Feb 1, 2012 12:48 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Who would replace him?
While I understand the rant (you could make a rant for just about any coach in the league regarding playing time/lineups) I think Karl deserves a break. First, the Nuggets are second in the Western Conference. Second, in a shortened season that wears on the players, guards will generally hold up better/play more minutes. Third, the 7 footers remain unproven.
But if you do think we should fire Karl, who would be the best coach to fit this team? Remember, this team’s 2 best players are 23 and 24 years old.
Agreed!
I challenge anyone who thinks we should fire Karl to name 5 better coaches in the league right now. We are on pace to win 44 games this year! I remember reading before the season started that OKC would win 44-47 and that would be good enough for the #1seed in the west.
Didn’t Miami lose at home to the Bucks? Didn’t OKC lose to the WIzards? Loses happen! Good ones and bad ones. The Nuggets need to tweek, not overhaul!
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 1, 2012 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
We don't need 5 coaches
We only need one. Sloan supposedly is available for the right situation. Laimbeer wants to be a head coach.
Last of all, it doesn’t really matter what our regular season record is possibly going to be. What really matters is how well we do in the playoffs and george karl (the real one) isn’t interested in that aspect of the game.
How many championships does Sloan have?
Same as George Karl. Difference is he quit on his team for “you fill in the blank” reasons.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 1, 2012 4:40 PM MST up reply actions
I would love to have Sloan coach the Nuggets
A good fit for a young club that has a lot of room for growth. Bring in a coach that actually teaches the youngsters and allows them to grow . . . not fit in an antiquated system.
There’s a reason the Jazz have been the Nuggets nemesis over the last 20+ years.
Now, can Sloan’s system win a title, I don’t know, but I always felt Sloan got more out of his players than most other coaches.
by blooming rock on Feb 1, 2012 4:54 PM MST up reply actions
I like Sloan too!
Don’t get me wrong. But a big part of the reason he lasted 20 years in the same place was because of the market he coached in. I think if he is in Houston or Chicago or even Denver, he lasts less than 10 years.
Karl is a great coach! We praise him when we win and we disect him when we lose.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 1, 2012 5:58 PM MST up reply actions
Popovich, Sloan, Carlisle, Adelman, Jackson, Doug Collins, Doc Rivers
There’s seven better coaches. Want more? How about some up and comers like Scott Brooks, Kevin McHale, Scott Skiles, Frank Vogel…
Why not throw Dean Smith and John Wooden in there?
I said in the league right now. Plus you’re just being spiteful with some of the names on this list. I’ll give you Pop, but Adelman and Collins? McHale?!? Are you kidding me? Scott Brooks? I’ll give you $5 bucks to tell me exactly how this Karl disciple is a better coach than him. And you can’t say he has a better record because evidently win/loss record is irrelevant in this conversation.
Who the hell is Frank Vogel?!?!? (I’m joking but you get the point)
Rivers could potentially be better, but I wouldn’t Fire Karl to get him.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 2, 2012 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
Scott Brooks outcoached Karl in the playoffs last year
5 bucks please
How did he out coach him?
Even if true (which it isn’t) it doesn’t equate to him being a better coach. Broncos beat the Steelers in the playoffs. I think we can all agree that doesn’t mean they are a better team.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 2, 2012 2:57 PM MST up reply actions
Its not that Brooks was outstanding so much as Karl was frustratingly bad
Sticking with Chandler when he was the worst player on the court comes to mind. Anyway, this debate is ridiculous. You asked for 5 coaches. I gave you them . You disagree? Fine.
Go Nuggets.
By the way your Bronco Steeler comparison is horrible.
We are talking coaches in a 7 game series. Basketball playoffs and NFL playoffs are completely different. But figures you would compare them. So does Karl.
No it's accurate
Just because you win a game/series doesn’t me you out coached the other. Just means you had a better game/series.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 2, 2012 3:51 PM MST up reply actions
Coaching influences results
Karl improvises a lot and it often comes back to haunt him. Especially in a 7 game series where matchups and adjustments matter more. Hence Karls playoff record being so much worse than his regular season record.
Karl leaves a lot in the hands of the players. Its one of his strengths. Players have freedom. In the regular season this works well. In the NBA playoffs you need to make adjustments. Karls weakness is making adjustments when things start going wrong or the game gets slowed down to a half court grind. Karls career postseason winning percentage is .436.. He gets teams there and deserves credit for that. But his teams rarely play above themselves in the playoffs. Quite the opposite. Coaching influences results.
I admit McHale is a reach and my list was a bit tongue in cheek ..
But Id seriously take any of these current coaches over Karl… Pop, Carlisle, Rivers, Adelman, Collins, and probably Skiles or Brooks. Time will tell with Vogel but he is doing a pretty good job so far. We can debate this if you want, but Im a Nuggets fan and I genuinely want Karl to succeed. If Karl succeeds it means the Nuggets are winning and that is what I want. I am skeptical, because I have seen the same things for years and not just in Denver. Remember Dan Issel out coaching him in the playoffs against Seattle?
We know what we have with Karl.Lots of hot air. I thought Masai built a Karl proof team but Im afraid he will screw it up. I have been saying this for years. Please George! Prove me wrong!
nah i watch mchaIe he sucks as a gm, but he does heIp guys devlop.
by Rys on Feb 2, 2012 3:20 PM MST up reply actions
Fair point
He’s no idiot. That’s for sure. At least he makes sense when he talks basketball.
While I had a similar rant
I don’t think I would go as far as saying we need to fire Karl. He DOES need to understand that the game does change and that his lineups need fine tuning. He is a good coach IMO. I just feel bamboozled when he refuses to match size, call a timeout, or substitute. He is very stubborn, but things could be a lot worse, but they could be a lot better also. He does need to realize that certain changes have to be made. The problem is that this type of basketball is not going to cut it in a SERIES against the elite. Thank God we have a season to work out these kinks.
We say that every season
There are a bunch of games left.
They will eventually gel.
There is still time.
and then.
Wait until next season.
Thats the problem
Karl is just barely above average. We can all see how he good be great, but his stubborness holds his team back. If you want to always be in the “wait for next season mode” Karl is perfect. Personally I think he would be a decent assistant to say a Sloan or a Popovich but clearly he lacks the creative mien to get over the hump.
yea he's not goin to 'understand' what you are tryin to teII him, because he's a great coach, and you are no one.
he is entrnched in his ways, aII that stuff he says about stuff he goes through is just bs. season aftr season, ppl make excuses and say maybe next season, maybe the probIem is meIo, maybe it’s jr, maybe it’s the front office etc… the Iist goes on.
karI can get you to the pIayoffs yea, but so what, do you guys Iike just making the pIayoffs, or do you want to buiId a team that can improve itseIf to compete for a titIe. there are not many shots to win a titIe, and i would want a coach who’s fIexibIe to jump on that oppurtunity when it comes, and be shrewd and meticuIous in his coaching, someone who doesnt Ieave a bunch of crap up to phiIosophy. someone who capitaIizes on the other teams weak nesses.
pretty much just get a coach that is practicaI, and professionaI who doesnt make the job more than a job and takes things personaIIy for petty reasons with pIayers.
by Rys on Feb 1, 2012 7:36 PM MST up reply actions
Here! Here!
This is the best team Karl has had since he’s been here.
He’s got every thing here in Denver. He has players who are committed to TEAM ball and there’s no drama or distractions.
Some might question why is this discussion taking place. It’s because the writing is on the wall. We’ve seen this Dog and Pony show for six years now. GEORGE MICHEAL KARL coaching technique is flawed. (Small ball, fuc up rotations, not playing personnel simply because they are rookies etc.)
The reason this site exists is because Andrew was calling for his job. Some kind of way Karl snowed Andrew into giving him some slack and to get off his back. That should have never happened Karl should have been fired then
Six years have passed and the Nuggets with this thousand plus regular game winner has gone to the playoffs. Five of those six times the Nuggets were ousted in the first round.
Nuggets will never win a championship with Karl just ask the Bucks and Sonics
Let's not forget
How many times he has said ‘this is the best team I have ever had’ and then topped off the season with a first round exit.
I don't even NEED to win a championship...
I’d just like to be competitive with a shot at getting to the second round – often, we aren’t just “eliminated”, but are embarrassed – last year…
Karl is a good coach
But also the most stubborn coach in nba. Time to move on like Broncos did from Shanahan. His methods have gone stale. Hopefully Masai and Josh are as shrewd on coaching side as they are on trades and personnel. Give him through the end of the season but assuming yet another first round exit he needs to go. The two point guard lineup always has been and will be awful!
Karl's ego is bigger than the room im in right now.
Clearly this is our problem. Time outs, unconventional rotations all come back to his ego.
by Monkfish on Feb 2, 2012 9:22 AM MST via mobile reply actions
The playoffs are a perfect example of why Karl is not a great coach
We always make the playoffs because our talent is among the elite without question. But the season is full of 82 1-game series. Come playoff time, it becomes a chess match between the coaches, becuase you can afford to strategize and adjust accordingly over a 7 game series. Karl sucks at chess.
+1 to Karl sucking at chess
I remember Chauncey saying something about it a couple of years ago, something to the effect of “We’re doing well in the first half, but then at halftime the other team is making adjustments and we’re not, and we don’t know what to do about their adjustments.”
And it’s totally spot-on to point out that in the playoffs, NBA ball becomes more of a coach’s game. Karl has gotten out-coached in the playoffs so many times.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 2, 2012 1:45 PM MST up reply actions
that's pretty teIIing, it's funny how many things biIIups noticed about karI's coachin when he got here that made him go Iike WTF?
by Rys on Feb 2, 2012 3:21 PM MST up reply actions
no out of bounce plays?
wasn’t that the first thing he noticed when he came over? /cry
People that want Karl fired
Need to face reality. He just signed a 3 year extension late last season, so is under contract through 2013-14. The team is not going to ‘move on’ so early in his new contract.
If he fails this season, and next then there can be a legitimate possibility of the Nuggets moving on past George Karl but for now he is the coach for better or worse.
He knows the game well, but his inability to adjust to game by game scenarios due to his insistence of ‘going small’ is beyond annoying. As is his hatred of all rookies not named Gary Forbes and Ty Lawson.
Yup, this seems about right
We’re all gonna have to suffer with him for a while before anything changes.
And it is true that there’s a lot of worse coaches in the NBA.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 2, 2012 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
All these things are true
Karl wont get fired this year. Ideally, he pulls his head out and we go on a run. Wont happen this month though.Not with this schedule. I hope Im wrong.
Karl's a smart man
a pretty creative coach but his moves seem to be impulsive, the kinds of moves that you expect an average fan to make or perhaps a basketball mad scientist.
That means Karl can field a pretty well coached team that inexplicably is miscoached and implodes at crucial times in crucial games.
Axel an has a job
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 4, 2012 12:01 AM MST up reply actions
Maybe you guys should post
your basketball resume so I know haw much credence to give your complaining. For example, where do you rank in college or pro wins as a coach?
I sorta understand. Watching the Nugs lose IS frustrating.
My record:
1051 Wins
711 Losses
I average a win 59% of the time.
What is really interesting is that I have 13 seasons where my average was .600 or better yet only a single conference finals championship and no nba championships.
Even more interesting is my playoff averag of 43 percent and the fact that in 20 playoff appearances ten of them were sub 50% and eight of them were sub 30%. I’m just not intersted in coaching in the playoffs.
That is always such a bullshit copout
I’m not a director, but Michael Bay sucks.
I’m not a musician, but The Eagles suck.
I’m not a writer, but Stephenie Meyer sucks.
George Karl isn’t a good coach. Kick rocks.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:20 AM MST up reply actions
I found it interesting that Karl has a record of 145-145 in games decided by 3 points or less
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
Maybe Karl's record in the playoffs reflects
his ability to get average teams into the lower slots, where they go against better teams. In that way, very Doug Moe-ish.
maybe that's not it, and the nuggets have been wideIy considered with meIo here, to be top 5 in taIent, which karI and the team seems to agree with at Ieast before the season and they say how they goin for 60 wins.s
onIy to, big shock here, under achiev, and have the coach Iower expectations by sayin goin .500 on this road trip wouId be great.
by Rys on Feb 4, 2012 4:43 PM MST up reply actions
George Karl is the reason
we are doing as well as we are this season.
Don’t blame rotations when players don’t have good games, it’s a cop out.
karl is the reason we lost to
NO at home, Utah at home and Memphis on the road. Heck the Lakers loss at home (I was there and it was sickening watching the Lakers fans gloat after the game) can be attributed to his freaking lineups. He like togo small and we got destroyed on the boards and couldnt stop Bynum or Gasol with Nene and Harrington. And then to have Miller guard Kobe in the last 5 minutes of the game is stupid
Where have you been the last eight years?
you are typical. Are you older than eight? If you are then you know that Karl does well in regular season games and CHOKE in the playoff. Laddie, the proof is in the post season.
yeah
jr has that type of pull with masai i’m sure.
Since no one is responding, I again ask.......
Maybe you guys should post
your basketball resume so I know haw much credence to give your complaining. For example, where do you rank in college or pro wins as a coach?
I sorta understand. Watching the Nugs lose IS frustrating.
um you got an answer ...
GK answered you with his Playoff resume.
sure...I played division 2 college basketball back in the 90's
and I don’t need to be an NBA coach to see that his substution patterns and basketball “concepts” have hamstrung this teams in some games because of his inability to adjust. we have height and yet Karl likes to put our team in defensive mis-matches because he thinks small ball can run the other team off the court. However, Karl never adjusts to the concepts that a team and take Denver out of the running game by slowing it down on their offensive end and getting back on defense. So when a team does that, and continues to outrebound you, then any good coach would adjust and get a bigger lineup in there. But karl is too stubborn to do any of that
also it is BS for you to pull the "post your resume crap"...
are you suggesting that no one can be critical of a coach since none of us coached in the NBA?
That's what sports entertainment is...
Should Sportscenter really airing? Only Trent Dilfer and a handful of others should comment…oh but wait, they weren’t coaches. Only Ditka then. His “Stop It” routine will roll 24 hours a day. Can’t wait.
I think what he's saying is......
Explain your reasons for wanting to fire GK. All I hear people talk about is small ball, but I swear they have no idea what small ball is. What’s funny to me is those same people say we should trade for Steve Nash (6’3") Ray Allen (6’4") or Eric Gordon (6’3") by getting rid of AAA (6’5") Birdman (6’11") or Wilson Chandler (6’8")! LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 6, 2012 3:09 PM MST up reply actions
Dude...small ball is playing two PG and another guard
at the same time when your opponents are playing a bigger lineup and ourebounding you…or asking Big Al (6’9) to guard gasol (7’0) or Nene (6’11) to guard Bynum (7’1) Miller (6’3) to guard Kobe (6’6) to close out a game! that’s why we are upset with Karl’s decisions
Getting out rebounded isn't because of small ball
It’s because we don’t know how to rebound. I’m not a fan of small lineups either in general, but our best players are not tall! Outside the starting 5, Dre and Al buckets are the best players. You have to get them their minutes to be successful. Who’s minutes do you take away to get Koufos in? Who btw was brilliant vs Portland but awful against the Lakers.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 6, 2012 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
Larry...we must not be watching the same games
Height helps on defense and rebounding…Having KK at the end of the lakers in there would have helped. Having Gallo in there would have helped. But instead, we ended the game with Nene, Big Al, Miller, Ty and AAA on the floor. If we had a beeter defensive lineup, we could have prevent a couple of the Lakers offensive rebounds. But whatever, I am done having with this. If you like his small ball (esp in late game situations when our height would be to our advantage) then you will enjoy the rest of this season and an early exist in the playoffs.
2:36 Denver full timeout
2:28 Ty Lawson misses 25-foot three point jumper
2:27 Pau Gasol defensive rebound 89-85
2:08 Derek Fisher misses 22-foot jumper 89-85
2:05 Kobe Bryant offensive rebound 89-85
1:59 Kobe Bryant misses driving layup 89-85
1:59 Pau Gasol offensive rebound 89-85
1:45 Kobe Bryant misses 8-foot running jumper 89-85
1:44 Al Harrington defensive rebound
1:39 Nene Hilario makes two point shot (Andre Miller assists)
1:19 Derek Fisher makes 21-foot jumper (Kobe Bryant assists) 91-87
1:10 Arron Afflalo misses 11-foot jumper
1:09 Pau Gasol defensive rebound 91-87
0:52 Kobe Bryant bad pass (Nene Hilario steals) 91-87
0:47 Andre Miller bad pass (Derek Fisher steals)
0:47 Los Angeles full timeout
0:37 Pau Gasol lost ball (Ty Lawson steals) 91-87
0:31 Matt Barnes enters the game for Pau Gasol 91-87
0:28 Nene Hilario makes slam dunk (Ty Lawson assists)
0:28 Los Angeles 20 Sec. timeout
0:28 Pau Gasol enters the game for Matt Barnes 91-89
0:12 Nene Hilario blocks Andrew Bynum’s layup 91-89
0:11 Los Angeles defensive team rebound 91-89
0:11 Denver 20 Sec. timeout
0:11 Matt Barnes enters the game for Pau Gasol 91-89
0:11 Denver full timeout
0:11 Pau Gasol enters the game for Andrew Bynum 91-890
0:03 Al Harrington misses 26-foot three pointer
0:01 Matt Barnes defensive rebound 91-89
0:00 Andre Miller personal take (Matt Barnes draws the foul)
0:00 Matt Barnes makes free throw 1 of 2 92-89
0:00 Matt Barnes makes free throw 2 of 2 93-89
0
I didn't say I liked it
I actually said I didn’t like it. I just see it a necessary evil right now. Until we get an inside presence that both scores and rebounds consistantly you are going to see lineups like that and blaming the problem on GK just seems misguided to me.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 6, 2012 3:58 PM MST up reply actions
Just in case you missed it, but what you're saying is a copout
I’m not a director, but Michael Bay sucks.
I’m not a musician, but The Eagles suck.
I’m not a writer, but Stephenie Meyer sucks.
George Karl isn’t a good coach. Kick rocks.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:22 AM MST up reply actions
Well, I ruffled a few feathers. asking obnoxiously about resumes. its true that
Sometimes the nugs look disorganized, etc. but if you want fans to get on the “fire the coach” bandwagon, you might want to explain your expertise. Otherwise it just reads like a frustrated BB wonk venting.. I do not hear the ESPN talking heads dising GK, nor the media. And they certainly don’ t hesitate with other coaches. Given the talent, nugs record is about where it should be, i think. its interesting, some people rag on the coach but think the talent is exceptional. KK? I’d rather have Bynum. I love watching the team, but Gallo and Nene are underdogs to make the all star team., who else?
If nugs dump the Karlster……..how many NBA teams immediately look to hire him. i bet quite a few. Yeah, I’m a homer. My instinct is to support the staff and the players.
That isn’t entirely true. I never advocated for it on my website. Andy however…
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
Really? /Banned
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
yea Iets foIIow espn to teII use what we shouId be sayin.
ppI watch games, and it’s obvious this team isnt goin anywhere with karI.
You are correct in that the Nat'l media seems to be crediting Karl
but that is because the only info. they have to take from are the very few Nuggets games that are nationally televised (in which they’re really just focused on the players, regardless of the coach) and the fact that “these Nuggets don’t have a superstar and are winning…” With that, it’s natural to assume that it must be because of our coach, when really we have so much talent at many different positions and can win in spite of the questionable lineups (on certain nights). GK is not the worst coach in the NBA, and he does well in the regular season. But once it comes to a chess-match in a 7 game series, he will absolutely lose. He is too stubborn to make adjustments and always lets the opposing coach make the first move. We’ll never win a championshihp with him because of it.
Hope I’m wrong.
National media doesn't talk about us. Period.
The guy can’t win the big one, and if we aren’t working towards being champions then what’s the point of it all?
I mean I don’t like having a coach that says something along the lines of “Shit. We drew OKC? I’d rather have Dallas.” What a slap in the face to the players and a surrender.
I’d rather not have the first coach to have a no.1 seed lose to a no.8 seed (don’t point out the irony). I’d rather not have a coach that has over 10 play off appearances, and got past the first round in 2 of them.
I’d rather not have a coach that doesn’t understand that in a compacted season, rookies will need to be thrown in the mix, youngsters will need to rest, and rotations will be high. Injuries beget more injuries.
So yeah that’s my opinion, but please keep posting like we’re all idiots.
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:31 AM MST up reply actions
oops my playoff #s are very off
I don’t know where I got that from cause Milwaukee went to the conf finals too.
Anyway, guy still sucks in postseason and does a shit job preparing for it.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:32 AM MST up reply actions
Back seat drivers
It’s so easy to criticize, especially without education or knowledge. That’s what I hear here. Give him two more years with this team. Then you can whine, and I’ll whine with you.
by Charles R. Murray on Feb 7, 2012 10:33 AM MST reply actions
Really? He hasn't been given enough time to be judged? Really?
Did you go to the G.I. Joe movie, watch it, and after it was over decide you were going to wait to more years to decide if it sucked?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 12:40 PM MST up reply actions
when did you strt to foIIow this team. 8 seasons of work not enuff for u.
it’s not Iike he just got here.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
Not a GK fanatic here....
I’m all for what’s best for the team. If it’s time for a change then it’s time for a change, but people on here talk about GK like he always gets out-coached and has NO playoff success to speak of and it’s just not true! The man has been to 3 conf. finals with 3 different teams and 1 NBA Finals! If he doesn’t get sick I believe he goes to a 4th Conf. Finals and possibly the Finals. The one playoff series they lost that they SHOULD have won with him coaching was the series against the Clippers. That’s it! Most of the playoffs here in Denver ended to the eventual NBA Champions!
Those are all facts. Yet people bash on him because he’s not playing Kenneth Faried more?! Because he prefers to play Lawson, Miller, and Afflalo instead of Birdman, Mozgov, and Koufos?!
In the words of the immortal Cris Carter: “Come on, man!” LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 1:25 PM MST reply actions
He got out coached last night
and gets out coached on a regular basis. His teams have underachieved every year except his first season, and the first Chauncey season. I do not believe a Karl led nuggets team has ever won a playoff game where they were facing elimination. To me, the sign of a good coach isn’t one who loses the games he is supposed to lose, which appears to be your standard.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
cooI 3 out of what 30 pIayoffs.
it’s not that they Iost those games, it’s how they Iost them with the team impIodin and Iack of adjustin. not expectin a titIe, just a want to see the team be abIe to it’s abiIities and not be Iaughed out of the pIayoffs.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 2:41 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah we've had some horrible showings in the playoffs.
and Karl does shoulder some of the blame. But this more than any other pro sports league is a player’s league. The players should take the majority of the responsibility for those embarrasments. Not the coach.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 4:07 PM MST up reply actions
yea he's consistentIy sabotged his team with his bias, it's more than just bad coachin, he makes things too personaI.
the pIayers tried, he’s had so much taIent on this team, the front office put in the money, and there’s IittIe resuIts to show for it, aII the pIayers he used to bIame are not here anymore. why does he not take responsibiIity for the resuIts, if he didnt have credentiaIs and other stuff, whiIe bein goIf buds with the owner, he wouId be out of here by now. what more do you want the front office to do, get a superstar team that is cIearIy more taIented than any other team in the Ieague to make up for bein so out coached.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 6:48 PM MST up reply actions
Ask the pre jackson
Bulls and Lakers if the coach matters. Lakers were just like the nuggets have been under Karl before Jackson.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 6:54 PM MST up reply actions
Gotta love how Larry and Mesh avoided this point.
Throw it down always brings quality.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:34 AM MST up reply actions
Never avoid a good arguement
1st I never said coaching doesn’t matter. I said it’s not as important as it is in other sports. 2nd Phil Jackson is the greatest NBA coach of all time (IMO). Given a choice between him and GK I’d take him everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, but I would also say that if our coach was Jerry Sloan, or Pat Riley.
But it’s not a matter of “fire GK so we can go and hire The Greatest Coach of All Time”
If it were I’d feel differently.
btw That Laker team made MASSIVE roster changes to make them champions! (moving Eddie Jones, Glen Rice, Dennis Rodman, and Nick Van Exel) It wasn’t just hiring Jackson.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 9, 2012 4:31 PM MST up reply actions
no, they didnt win anythin with that roster tiII phiI stepped in.
aIso it seems Iike u just foIIow what other ppI say, sIoans an ok coach, but is not that great, he’s an upgrade from karI, but he has his issues if you foIIow the j1zz boards.
by Rys on Feb 9, 2012 6:17 PM MST up reply actions
I know they didn't win
My point was that it wasn’t just Phil stepping in and they started winning championships. They had major chemistry problems they had to fix first.
I agree with you about Sloan. I just used his name because he is widely regarded as a great coach by people on this board! He may or may not be a better fit here than Karl, but I’m sure someone would start a “Fire Sloan” thread sooner or later too.
It’s funny you bring up the Jazz boards. I’m a big fan of Shaq and on those Laker boards from 8 or 9 years ago there were a TON of people absolutely killing Phil Jackson and the triangle offense and how he’ll never be Pat Riley. You or I could read those boards and think those fans are nuts! Just like I’m sure fans of the TWolves or Nets would kill to have Karl as their coach. It’s all relative.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 9, 2012 8:04 PM MST up reply actions
Karl is not a perfect coach and his defensive and offensive schemes and rotations can definitely be open to debate. That said, the defense is around average, the Nuggets have been in the top five in offensive rating over the past few years and he has managed to get some pretty difficult personalities to play hard (for the most part). I’d say he’s an average to above average coach, and I definitely wouldn’t want Sloan over him. Sloan’s defensive scheme is just to foul, and he couldn’t get along with DWill. If you could find another Tom Thibadeou out of the assistant ranks, obviously you’d be crazy not to go for it, but you can do a lot worse than Karl.
i keep dancing on my own.
Sloan
Over the past six full seasons that Karl has been coach of the nuggets, which team would you say has had more talent? Nuggets or Utah?
In the five full seasons they were each coaching these teams, Sloan won 247 regular season games. Karl won 246 games. Karl went to the playoffs each season, getting out of the first round only once, making it to the conference finals. Sloan missed the playoffs one year, lost in the first round once, lost in the second round twice, and made one conference finals. Which coach did the better job with the talent on hand?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
It is close
Deron was an all-star (and played at an all-star level even before being selected), Boozer a very good second option, AK47 was an all-defense level talent with good passing and efficient scoring abilities, Mehmet Okur was also outstanding for a couple years IIRC and also Paul Millsap was great. So it’s probably close as to who had more talent, especially when you consider Nene and Kenyon’s consistent injury issues and the disaster that was the Iverson period. Jazz also matched up very favorably with the Rockets when they met in the playoffs in the mid-2000s.
i keep dancing on my own.
It seems to me when we lose it's because he gets "out-coached"
and when we win it’s inspite of him which just isn’t fair. I’m not an X’s and O’s guy but I do know the game well. Houston didn’t do something defensively that we could get past. We just couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn last night and we had A TON of open looks running Karl’s offense. We also shot about 50% from the line last night. We also had about 20 trunovers last night. That isn’t being out-coached. That’s a team playing bad. I’m not even going to bring up injuries, because that had little to with last night.
You can’t say someone got “out-coached” just because his team lost.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 4:03 PM MST reply actions
You should watch some of these games live
There have been plenty of games where during a timeout George wouldn’t talk to the team. Instead he would stand about 20ft away from the bench in the middle of the court with his arms crossed.
Man! That’s damn good coaching! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!
It isn't just because they lost
I was actually thinking it in the first half when they had the lead. Every time the nuggets got ahead by 6 or more, their coach would call a timeout, then come out of the timeout with a quick run that would get them back within a couple of points. They were winning every timeout, and as a result, they ended up with a two point lead at half. That’s coaching.
And you are exactly right about them winning in spite of his coaching. They do that quite often. Karl helps this team in game about 10% of the time.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 7, 2012 4:16 PM MST up reply actions
you make it seem Iike we cant teII the difference between out coached or they just Iost.
against houston, the team did suck, and imo karI has not been bad this season, mainIy because he has the pIayers he want, and doesnt have feIton anymore to pIay, and a much improved aI instead of the aI from Iast season.
his offense works in the reguIar season, and gettin to the rim or the Iine is what they shouId be doin as weII as runnin to score easy points. the thing is Iate in games or in the pIayoffs when it’s more haIf court, the team has Iooked in competent when those easy options are open, they Iike use the back cut a Iot, but when teams figure things out and cIog the paint and we dont have any consistent shooters outside who can them pay, where do you go from there.
anyways it’s not just about this season, but aII the seasons that he’s coached here, we had some very taIented teams that impIoded and a Iot of questionabIe coachin in the pIayoffs that doesnt lnspire confidence.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 7:02 PM MST up reply actions
SMH
Agree to disagree I guess. I see alot of good and bad arguements on both sides. And I could refute almost all arguements against GK. Like I’m sure during those timeouts where coach is standing there with his arms folded that Hunt or Iske or someone else has the huddle. Or earlier someone quoted GK has saying “he didn’t care about the playoffs” when any reasoned person would take that to mean he will worry about that when he gets there and not that he doesn’t care about winning in the playoffs. I know noones changing anyones minds here. There’s just too much hyperbole on the boards. I guess that just means we are passionate fans!
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 5:53 PM MST reply actions
he said he didnt Iike coachin the pIayoffs, and against the Iakers he didnt coach them at aII.
the team wouId get down by 20 points and he wouId just sit there, how can you excuse that, how can you excuse havin the baII stoIen by odom twice in a season where the team may very weII have been abIe to win a titIe. that was their oppurtunity right there with meIo to win that titIe, and karI didnt just get outcoached that series he scrwed his own team, where the pIayers Iost confidence, because watchin kobe abuse AC again and again with no adjustmnts is just so
in excusabIe.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 7:07 PM MST up reply actions
Again...
I’m not excusing anything! I just think the problems with this team and past teams has more to do with personnel and less to do with being out coached. “Out coached” is such a misnomer. Noway will anyone every convince me that any coach in the NBA has a defensive/offensive scheme that is so good the other coach can’t counter. And according to alot of people here that’s what happens to Karl on MOST NIGHTS! That’s crazy ridiculous! This isn’t the NFL where coaching makes a bigger difference between wins and losses. If the players execute more than the other team, they will win. And if you have UBER talent like Miami sometimes you don’t even need to execute. As god as my witness I could coach Miami to a .500 season! The NBA is about the talent you have and how much that talent is willing to sacrifice to win! ALL the Nuggets losses were because 1 or more of these things happened: They shot the ball poorly, They rebounded poorly, They turned the ball over WAY to many times, or they missed too many free throws. If you go back to all 10 losses and look it up you’ll see I’m right. And yeah, I get confused as to why Koufos and Mozgov don’t get more run. Or why in certain situations AAA is in at SF, but those are not the reasons for our losses. The other 4 things are.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 7:54 PM MST up reply actions
the exampIes i pointed out in the pIayoffs cIearIy show the coach makin a difference.
anyways there is Iess bIame on the coach this season, but previous seasons he’s Iet his bias take controI of his rotations and pIayed guys who were very in effective instead of guys who couId have contributed.
you are makin this way too simpIe, taIent wins yea, so i guess those ppI who taIk about karI havin so many wins shouIdnt taIk as weII, and maybe we shouId just go out and get some guy off the street for cheap, because coachin makes no difference. it’s hard to win by just coachin weII in the nba yea, taIent is huge, but it’s easy to fack up your team with bad coachin.
by Rys on Feb 7, 2012 8:35 PM MST up reply actions
True
I just think this team is a long way from being “facked” up. LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 7, 2012 8:52 PM MST reply actions
Actually, you must love bad basketball or be happy being average and never winning anything..
becuase that is what Karl is…a coach that won’t win it all
Oh, you were serious?
I thought we were saying things about each other that wasn’t true. LOL
I don’t want to go down the mud slinging path. We all have reasons for our opinions. Never once did I say I’m a fan of Karl’s in any way. I just can’t stand when people regurgitate things based on the emotions of the moment. Or worse just because they heard someone else say it, but can’t back up their point.
I like the debate, not the opinion. I see people saying “Small ball” and “out-coached” alot. But can’t explain themselves well. Even @Rys admitted that those thing don’t apply to Karl this year. He just isn’t a fan of his coaching style. At least that’s reasoned. But don’t just throw random statements like “He got out coached last night” and have nothing to back your point. Or random quotes like @gonugs as some kind of evidence that Karl is an idiot. Some of the things Phil Jackson used to say would have your eyes bugged out! Is a a bad coach?
That’s all I’m getting at. The minute that GK loses this team I will lead the charge to have him thrown out on his ass! BELIEVE ME!
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Some of what you say is true
I sure do hate how George will throw players under the bus. It is usually the young guys too. He would never do that to a vet or someone he is afraid of. Kenyon did plenty of stupid things and did George every say boo about it? Nope, he’s a bully that’s why.
Not a bully.....
Just GK not changing with the times. There was a time that you could call someone out and embarrass them into getting their sh!T together on the court. Players run the league now. That’s why it worked with Payton (1992) and not with Allen(2002). You can’t call out your stars and expect no repercussions now. I think he never called out KMart not because he was afraid of him but because he really liked what he brought to the team. It was us fans that really had a problem with KMart because of the money he was making. I bet GK would take Kenyon back in a heartbeat if money wasn’t an issue.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
If he hasn't already
9 games until the break.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 8, 2012 9:41 PM MST up reply actions
Not totally facked up
just enough to never win any big games or playoffs. Hence the reason for finding a coach to put us over the “hump.” And fire Karl! If we do it now it will hurt less later.
George Karl quote
¨How I´m going to take the game is always a guessing game for me¨
That's the main reason he should be fired
Indication that he coaches only l0% of the time
Our first round exits were Melo's fault
more than GK’s. Melo’s a blackhole and a terrible team defender. Just take one look at how that NY team is doing this year – Melo gets injured and right away dleaguer Linsanity has that team playing winning basketball.
The fact that this team has ZERO all-stars and is still a contender to win the West is a testament to the basketball knowledge of George Karl and Masai Ujiri. I bet all you GK haters were the same people that were really excited when Adrian Dantley got to be in charge.
LOL
This is funny…“I bet all you GK haters were the same people that were really excited when Adrian Dantley got to be in charge”
This is even more funny…“still a contender to win the West”
Lets see, can't make a 3 point shoot, or a free throw, huge turnover numbers, players getting injured.......
Must be the coaches fault!
by mesh-head on Feb 8, 2012 11:00 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
so as a coach you need to sit guys
that are not performing…thats what a good coach doea…miller is slow on defense yt karl continues to play small ball in crucial defensive situations…sub miller out and bring in some height…do offense/defensive subs before the last 30 secs of a game…
by LEEDS on Feb 8, 2012 11:21 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
mesh..please psot your resume
as so we can all see why your opinions are more valuable that oura…you too Larry
by LEEDS on Feb 8, 2012 11:21 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
Having 8-man rotations for the first quarter of a compacted season.
Players start dropping like flies.
Yeah, I’d say it’s fair to extrapolate that he is running them into the ground.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:37 AM MST up reply actions
LOL whatever
Doesn’t matter if I told you I coached HS and college ball for 10 years. Or that I’m just a magician with and X-Box controller. I’m not changinging your mind. LOL
You don’t like Karl! I get it.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 11:31 AM MST reply actions
3 of the 4 hings you mentioned Larry, have alot to do with coaching.
1. Poor shooting. Players have to be on and execute. If a shot isn’t going in (I.e. gallo’s 1for 10 night(s))…Karl needs to sit pull him aside, and say, “Dude your shot isnt falling tonight please take it strong to rim.” He is our leading scorer and for him (even as a decoy) to be sitting in crunch time on bench is inexplicable. Cocaching error.
2. Rebounding poorly. Hmmmm, with 4 guards and AL out on the floor, rebounding comes down to having the physical tools to block out. A coach MUST be aware of individual matchups and cannot expect a guard to out rebound a forward. Coaching 101. Coaching error.
3. Turning the ball over. This seems to happen when teams hurry back in transition and take away the Nuggets only strategy, which is run in transition make high percentage shots. When forced to slow it down this is when the Nuggets look lost, and turnovers happen. If Karl would practice half court offense, or triangle, or fine tuning some other pick and rolls (besides Nene and Lawson), or screening out for a good look 3 pointer, perhaps less turnovers would happen and going back to #1; improve our shooter’s chance. He doesnt seem to have anything besides run in transition. A coach with the amount of depth as the nuggets should have several different offensive and defensive schemes ready and practiced for every game. Karl does not. Coaching error.
4. Free throw shooting. OK player’s execution. I will give you that one.
Karl IS routinely out-coached as evidenced above.
Ok
1. Gallo is FAR from a decoy! His jumper has never been consistant enough. When he does have a bad shooting night teams are DARING him to shoot or did you not watch that Houston game? THAT said. I probably would leave him in the game anyway.
2. I said it once, I evidently have to say it again. I don’t like the 3 guard lineup either, but when you look at those lineups alot of times they are our best players being on the floor NOT ALWAYS, but enough to give the coach a pass. Ty, Miller, and AAA are our best backcourt combo when Gallo sits in terms of off/def(IMO). The rub is Big Al! He plays like a big SG/SF but he’s our best pure rebounder outside Manamal. It throws the chemistry off as to who you have on the floor in certain situations. Rebounding is a function of desire and execution, not height. Tony Allen was the guy that killed us not Marc Gasol!
3. Some of that is coaching. Most of that is execution. I assume you are in the practices to see that he doesn’t practice the half court offense…. NO? I’ll assume your wrong on that point.
4. You have to give me that I’m always right! ;)
Keeper comin’ fellas! I’m onna rolll! LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 12:59 PM MST reply actions
Wrong Larry
height doesnt make a difference with rebounding,? What are you smoking man?????tell me who gets the ball between Lawson and Gasol. When you talk about best line-ups…best line-ups for getting out-rebounded, shooting freethrows, all coaching chess matches.
There you go again
When did I say height doesn’t matter?
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
Read what i said about Gallo
He should have been in game not a bunch, he can penetrate…which is exactly what a “COACH” should have told him.
I think he should have been in the game too.
but the guy was 1-10 that night. You can’t say objectively that benching him should not be an option.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
I hate to agree with you Larry but I do.
I think some of the same guys who are saying bench AAA for stinking are saying keep Gallo on the floor when he’s having a bad night. Can’t have your cake and eat it too.
DON"T HATE BROTHA....
THIS IS ALL NUGGETS LOVE HERE!!! LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
Ha, I don't.
Everyone is making good arguments and I think getting rid of George for a better coach, whomever that is, is the best alternative.
That being said, any player is entitled to have a bad night, this team in particular because none of them are what I would call great.
Categorically,
you are supporting my claim, that it was bad coaching that lost the Memphis game for us. By benching Gallo, we lost intense defense and badly needed rebounding at end of game. Karl’s coaching, not Gallo’s play (since he was on bench) was in my opinion a huge and contributing factor to losing that game.
As the great Dan Issel would say
who cares
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 7:06 PM MST up reply actions
LOL
Trying my best to forget The Horse said that.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 8:19 PM MST up reply actions
I dont have
to be in practices to know Karl doesnt believe or use half court offenses my 6 yr old can see that…are you as smart as him?
Not claiming to be as smart
but I’m also not claiming to know what goes on in practices.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 8, 2012 1:13 PM MST up reply actions
He is very close
I think he has to turn it around before the asg.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 8, 2012 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
If you did not listen to George Karls post game interview you missed a good one
He actually talked ten times more than he usually does. [disclaimer: I somewhat paraphrased what he said but I think I was pretty true to the spirit of what he was saying.]
First off, he didn’t say anything stupid or annoying which was a big plus.
Also, he did not throw anyone under the bus. In Tys case what George said was ’Tie is still damn explosive but he has slowed down a bit from the beginning of the season. Playing during the off season his body is thinking we are in game 50+ when we are in 30+. He needs to be our go to dude for the entire game and I think he is capable."
In discussing playing against Dallas he said “We know that Dallas will give you penetration so you don’t have to take the first open look you get. Maybe that hurt us a little but our 3 ball hasn’t been falling lately anyway so that was our game plan going into this.”
On injuries, “We are banged up. From one instance to the next you never know who is going to be hurt but you just have to have confidence in yourselves to keep playing through it and do the best you can.”
On height, “Losing Gallo and Moz we definitely lost some height. In particular, Gallo is able to create more plays and we are missing that.”
He said some good things about Kufos and that AAA was maybe getting a little confidence back.
In response to a question about Golden State he said “I know those guys haven’t been putting a lot of wins on the board but they are a tough team. It won’t be easy but I think it is winnable.”
I know I have said I don’t want him as our coach but from his interview tonight I can say two things, he IS actually coaching the team. Meaning he is working with them in preparation for each game. Also, there is no way he has lost the team.
yes its time to put
an epitaph on this melancholic, George Karl coached era’s tombstone; “Close but no cigar.” Fire Karl Now! (Side note: Bring Back J.R. Swooooooosh!)
This thread could get epically long
I try not to be a Karl apologist, although I’ll admit I would love to see him win a championship here in Denver. And most of the problems with the team currently really are not his fault.
Teams need to desperately work on perimeter defense and also needs to attack the basket more and shoot the three less. But of course, it’s harder to be able to attack the basket if the opposing team know you can’t hit the three. The injury bug, and collapse of the team aren’t really George Karl’s fault—other then his insistence to go small too often.
Perimeter defense
can’t be coached? Don’t tell Mike Brown, Popovich, or Doug Collins that. These are coaches that are defensive minded and all just happen to be some the best in the league this year in holding down opponents 3 pt shot percentages. Attacking the basket is usually an offensive scheme that a coach can/should demand through his scoring sets. Again, 2 out of 3 examples where coaching is as important as player execution. Free throw shooting is usually a confidence thing. Does an often seemingly disinterested coach, with arms folded, and stand offish vibe instill championship level confidence?
No, it certainly can
I was saying that is something that the team needs to work on. However, when you either go small by choice or because of injuries, you have to spend extra attention at stopping teams inside games. That leaves the outside shot open. Attacking the basket is hard to do when your players can’t get outside shots. Nothing really can be done in regards to that, particularly when it’s open looks that players are missing.
And every coach folds his arms from time to time. Playing Karl’s demeanor for the team missing ft’s is kinda silly to me. Players need to man up and perform better, and Karl needs to go big the vast majority of the time.
I agree
Karl needs to do better in putting players into offensive and defensive schemes that work! I also agree players need to man up and make some ft’s. Perhaps Karl can implement a make 75% of free throws for charity chant. Seems to me motivation is a sometimes, messy, but necessary responsibility that comes with coaching. Good coaches seem to have ancillary talents like that
I Think the injury bug is George's fault
He s 3 Deep at every position yet still does not play his entire roster, yet he d rather play the hell out of who he likes playing until they have heavy feet and end up rolling their ankles, George is an idiot the nugget s strongest asset in a shortend season was their depth yet he does not take advantage of this clear advantage
by Nuggets#1fan on Feb 9, 2012 12:16 AM MST up reply actions
EXACTLY
And who knows how these injuries will affect our key players further down the line.
In 2010, Doc Rivers wouldn’t play Allen, Pierce, or Garnett more than 30 minutes in the last few months of the season. They lost more games than they should, but knowing how old his team was, he knew he needed to have their legs fresh for the playoffs. What happened? The Celtics blew past everyone and lost to the Lakers in 7 games.
Doc did this in a standard 82 game season. Why the fuck is GK not monitoring minutes, resting bodies, and developing the rookies?!?!
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:41 AM MST up reply actions
line-up for new coach,
Pg: Lawson
Sg: Jr. Smith
Sf. Gallo
Pf. Nene
C. Moz
Back ups:
Sf Chandler
Sg. AAA
PF or C. Harrington
PF Manimal
C 2K
I suggest a trade with AAA and Dre. For a speedy point guard e.g. AAron Brooks or similiar + draft picks)
Team has offense, shooting, rebounding defense, athleticism, and presumably a new coach that will actually utilize all his mis-matches and size. I am thinking Phil Jackson.
trade chandIer and affIaIo and andersen for picks and a saIary dump.
those coupIe of games right aftr the meIo trade where jr got to run the show was awesome, karI goin fack it, and jr runnin this offense Iike a pro. a Iot of games where meIo was out we got by, but when jr was out, our bench reaIIy sucked Iike that game against phx earIy Iast season, jr was very effective as a back up option on offense.
dont want a brooks when we have ty on this team.
Disagreed with you on the other post
but definitely like your thought here. You and I share a love for JR being “the man” which he never got nearly a fair enough chance at. Also do not want Brooks when we have Ty, and I think trading AAA, Chandler and Bird for a good pick would be great. Let’s get a legit SG in this draft and be good to go for years.
George can still coach the team on the floor
Thats rite George can still coach the team on the floor, but I want Josh and Massai to add a 2nd coach just to control who is on the floor, george is an idiot when it comes to who he puts on the floor, tonites starting lineup should have been PG: Ty- SG: AAA- SF:Big AL-PF: Nene-C:Bird Bench shoulda been PG:Miller-SG:RuRu-SF:Jordan Hamilton-PF:Manimal-C:K2
IoI wtf... Iike any coach is goin to aIIow that, especiaIIy one with a huge ego..
aIso teams are game pIannin against us effectiveIy, and there is no adjustin, there is no reIiabIe option when the other is effective in takin away the things this team usuaIIy tries to do.
I really cant understand why Carl wont play Al Harrington at the 3
big Al could provide a big boost at the 3 with Gallo out at 6’9 he should be able to shoot over the majority of SFs in the league as most of them are 6’8 or smaller, he d also have an advantage rebounding over other SFs as he’s used to playing PF, Not to mention the best part of Big Al playing the 3 spot would be Kenneth Faried geting more playing time to shine!!!!! Please George use some basketball common sense !!!!!!
I have said my piece here. No offense, but there isn't a sports team in the country that doesn't have its group of angry fans screaming
to fire the coach.
The team has a winning record.., That’s good. Too bad you guys can’t enjoy it. Watching the games, I find the claim that the nugs have superior talent unconvincing.
Don't respond
He has no real argument; he’s just trolling.
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:43 AM MST up reply actions
10000/10
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 9, 2012 12:44 AM MST up reply actions
yea but we are cIearIy on our way to another 1st round out.
we know what we are goin to get with this coach, and we know that he’s not goin to be fIexibIe to aIIow this team to improve.
by Rys on Feb 9, 2012 1:01 AM MST up reply actions
You guys don't know what you're talking about. GK really is a genius coach.
I mean Julyan Stone at small forward and Birdman at center to start the game.
He really is a hall of fame coach not worthy of our bitterness.
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we can try to get the front office to put in more taIent on the team, but it's not goin to make a difference.
karI cIeary doesnt want to win through reIyin on taIent, he wants to win his ‘team’ phiIosophy bs and ‘feeI gud’ famiIy baII. he didnt try to improve the offense with meIo here, he just Iet meIo catch the baII and go one on one, instead of organizin some kind of system wherewhen meIo gets doubIed or something there guys movin to get open at spots that meIo knows where to pass to.
He's not the best things since corn beef on rye
That’s for sure. But we just signed him to an extension. It’s an incredibly bad business decision to fire him with 2.5 years left on that contract.
All of the flaws that Karl had as a coach, were known prior to that extension. He’s not the best, but we could do a lot, lot worse. He’s going to get until the end of the year, no matter what happens on the court.
Count me among those who want Karl fired
I’ve made my case elsewhere on DS, so I won’t belabor it here. Of course, it’s not gonna happen, but the man needs to be fired. He has not shown he can manage the NBA game as it’s being played on the floor, nor does he seem to have much of a conception pre-game of how to manage the line-up available to him.
I will request to change my DS username. What a sad day in a sad season.
No. More. Stickyball.
Anyone here have any real faith in Karl...please explain why you do..
And I am talking to those Karl apologists like Larry, mesh-head and anyone else who thinks that after 8 years of the same crap, why we should continue the course…
Frankly, I am not happy just to make the playoffs and be one and done. If that’s what the Larrys and mesh-heads really want, then karl is your man…
Doesn’t our beloved Nuggets deserve better than just one and done every year (yes except for the one time CB took us to the Conf Finals) with Karl as coach?
Also, I don’t want to hear anything about no one else is better out there. That the question. IF you think that we have to keep someone employed because we think there might not be anyone better, then as an organization, you have failed. You become stagnant.
so tell me why Karl should remain the coach
Don't have any faith in Karl to be honest
Faith is typically defined as belief in something without evidence. If anything, the evidence goes against Karl as he has not had success in the postseason, and has not always had the best relationship with his players.
All I’ve argued is that it is impractical for the Nuggets to fire someone with more then 2 years left on his contract.
It's just basketball leeds
The conversation is supposed to be fun. And now it’s starting to turn into an US against THEM among Nuggets faithful. I like the back and forth but I don’t want it to get dis-respectful, brotha. Carry the conversation like I’m standing in front of you, man. I’m a good guy, I promise. I just don’t like being referenced the way I am because of a difference of opinon.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 9, 2012 10:40 PM MST up reply actions
Larry, you are the one taking it personally.
All I am asking is for the Karl supporters to tell me why he should still be our coach…If you can’t come up with legit reasons then say so, but don’t start with the “I’m a good guy routine and that we have a difference of opinion” line. I know we disagree. I want to know why you or anyone still supports Karl.
I have said it many times that I think his coaching “concepts” (i.e. small ball) has caused us games and I have data to prove it. And I was hopeful of a great season with everyone saying Karl can coach these guys now…but as the last 3 weeks have shown, maybe Karl’s coaching ability is overrated. When injuries happen, good coaches find ways to win against crappy teams like Houston and GS…however we have lost winnable HOME games and that is very frustrating.
I am also tired of his clashing with players and throwing them under the bus. A good coach doesn’t also doesn’t start a guy (Stone) at small forward only to play him 7 minutes. FIrst off, that is not putting your players in a position to succeed. Stone has never played SF…
So someone tell me that I am wrong, but I no longer have any faith in Karl’s ability to lead a franchise.
Faith, by definition is an irrational belief in things not in evidence
Like karls coaching ability.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 10, 2012 10:01 PM MST up reply actions
I'm a good guy routine? SMH
Whatever, man. You can choose to go down this path everytime we lose if you want. 132 post from me saying the same thing for no reason is enough for my blood. Hope to catch you at a Stiffs Night Out when you’re in a better mood. Go get laid or something, man!
It’s just a game.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 9, 2012 11:46 PM MST reply actions
there's no gettin around it, some coach off the spurs bench wouId probabIy improve this team greatIy.
if you have been foIIowin this team for the Iast 8 seasons, idk how you can keep makin excuses for this guy, he fIat out cost this team in the pIayoffs on many occasions, it wasnt karI that got us to the pIayoffs, it was the taIent on this team winnin despite karI’s ridicuIous rotations Iack of pIay caIIing, switch defense that aIIows other teams to run the same pick and roII pIay again and again with no adjustin. we probabIy wouId have accompIished a Iot more with an avg practicaI for the Iast 8 seasons than with karI here. you have to ask yourseIf what has karI actuaIIy accompIished here, in what ways has he improved this team other than not bein AD.
is gettin to the pIayoffs with out home court, with a team of top 10 pIayer in meIo, camby DPOY, kmart, nene, miIIer and impIodin in the 1st round a decent season. Iike those teams waIked through the 1st haIf of the season, then had to get on huge roIIs just to make the pIayoffs which is why they didnt get home court, karI wouId then make excuses Iike Iets just win at home and go .500 on the road, and Iower expectations. Iike reaIIy an avg coach in the nba couId have accompIished more with the taIent that was on this team.
typical
start calling me names and saying that i need to get laid as a retort..really that’s your argument for karl? never once did i call you a name or told you to get laid…bt maybe you cant gt laid cause of your bloos pressure
by LEEDS on Feb 10, 2012 7:46 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
You not liking GK has made him upset.
Hahahaha.
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 11, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
What name did I call you?
Was It when I called you “man” that was offensive? Are you a woman? Should I not refer to you as “you”? Is the idea of me saying you should have sex unsettling to? LOL
Give it a rest…..LEEDS. It’s not that serious.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 10, 2012 10:21 AM MST reply actions
U MAD?
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by KevinAwesome on Feb 11, 2012 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
Karl needs to go,
wondering if the domain name firegeorgekarl.com is still under ownship of whatever original den stiff started it? It needs to come back in a big way.
You people are insane.
Karl is a fantastic coach and a great guy, so give it a rest about firing him. Even with all the youth, injuries and players leaving to play in China, he has the Nuggets still competing and playing together. The coach that needs to get fired in Denver is Joe Sacco. That guy is horrible.
zzz, Iets see karI coach the woIves to the pIayoffs or a team Iike charIotte then taIk, this team has had pIenty of taIent to suppIement karI's bad coachin.
it’s Iess noticeabIe in the reguIar season, but in the pIayoffs when other teams get to prepare, you can cIearIy see aII the hoIes in karI’s coachin, and there are a Iot.
I agree to an extent.
He is a fantastic regular season coach. Playoffs, well…..
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss. But currently slumming in a high-level management position.
by love4nuggets on Feb 13, 2012 7:38 PM MST up reply actions
I'm just glad that
most of the commenters on this thread don’t run the team. Instead of the 1st round exits, we’d be a perennial lottery team.
Cool name @water.
Our Broncos could really use an Atwater in his prime about now…
wow you ppI just Iike to make the pIayoffs huh...
Iame. in this Ieague you either want to be reaIIy great or reaIIy bad. i wouId rather suck and re buiId when things have cIeary shown that this team has reached it’s ceiIing and cant go any further with this coach than more humiIiating 1st round impIosions which puts a bad img ont his team that it cant make it out of the 1st round Iike tmac, so if you want to win a titIe dont go there.
i think Rys wants more than
a one and done…if your one and done…for 7 of last 8 years…and most high profiles have been replaces except coach then maybe ita the coach partly to be blamed for not getting past the first rnd
by LEEDS on Feb 13, 2012 5:01 PM MST via Android app up reply actions
Name a coach that has been replaced
After making the playoffs eight straight seasons. I’m fairly certain there isn’t one.
To nugzin2040's point
I think he meant fired and not quit.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 13, 2012 5:31 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah, I meant fired
And besides Sloan didn’t make it eight straight times at the time he resigned (streak of 14 straight, and then 4 when he had resigned). Guess if you subscribe to the theory that Sloan wasn’t really fired but given a choice of resigning or getting fired, then you can use Sloan.
It’s fine if people want Karl fired, but to just make up stuff to support your argument like LEEDS is doing, is very dishonest.
a Iot of coaches, atI coach got fired because he couIdnt make it through the 1st round, adeImn got fired, Iook at aII the Iakers coaches who went far in the pIayoffs but because they didnt win they got repIaced.
you dont know what you are taIking about, maybe not that many seasons, but pIenty of coaches who have accompIished more with their teams have been Iet go because they didnt show they couId take their to the next IvI.
Atl coach
If you mean Mike Woodson, he was not fired. His contract was not extended. Which is an entirely different situation. If Nuggets management had decided not to give Karl, a new contract, and pursue someone else—then it would have made more sense. Giving someone a 3 year contract and firing them 1/2 a season into that extension is different. Makes the organization look inept and very Raiders-like.
Same situation with Adelman and the Kings. Chose not to extend his contract. It’s important to note, the Kings haven’t been to the playoffs since.
And what Lakers coaches were fired? They decided to not extend Phil Jackson, and preceded to take a nose dive. They then rehired Jackson, and won two more championships. Del Harris is the only coach I could think of that fits your description. And that was more of a “the star players can’t stand you any more, so we have to fire you” move from what I remember of it.
I was about to say the same thing about Del Harris
And Woodson did get out of the 1st round. The team COMPLETELY quit on him against Orlando in the semi-finals. I think they lost that series 4-0 by an average of 25 points a game or something ridiculous like that. That’s why they didn’t extend his contract. I have seen nothing from the Nuggets to suggest the same thing is happening here.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 12:12 AM MST up reply actions
Pretty sure he quit
Like he did pretty much every NBA job’s he ever did. Didn’t know he ever had a job that went seven seasons.
It didn't say 8 seasons with the same team.
I took it to mean a guy who had 8 consecutive playoff entries. Could be with 8 different teams or 1 team.
Larry Brown is one of my all time favorite coachs
(1st name and Nuggets aside I grow up a Jayhawks fan), but he is schizo as a coach. One minute he’s the reincarnation of John Wooden. Next he’d rather be at home watching Desperate Housewives. Can’t remember if he quit or got fired but I do remember it being a somewhat mutual agreement.
@Rys GK did lose his team during that Laker series and I did think it might be time for a change then, but I think time has shown that the Iverson was a major cancer to this team and was the majority of that problem. For the record I thought it was a mistake to fire Woodson then.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 11:08 AM MST up reply actions
You have to separate the Pre-Melo and Post-Melo Nuggets.
They are two totally different teams. Karl hasn’t even had a full 72 games or offseason with this current group.
by steve @water on Feb 13, 2012 11:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
And he has already nearly lost the team.
The only question left on G.K. being fired is will it happen during or after the season. Look at the poll on my fanpost. It fluctuates some, but over 50% want him gone by the ASG, and about 80% want him gone if they lose in the first round of the playoffs. Nuggets will get that feedback.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
I have purposefully avoided posting in this thread, because, honestly,
it has become extremely divisive. It seems like anyone who posits any positives for Karl ends up getting ridiculed as someone who doesn’t know anything about basketball in general, or our Nuggets specifically. However, I feel there are some issues about replacing Karl mid-season which are being overlooked.
First off, consider our roster. The current players are made to play up-tempo, run and gun basketball – namely, the type of ball that Karl coaches. Our roster – as currently constructed – does not have the consistent outside shooting or dominant low post game required of a more half court, slow down game. If the losing streak showed us anything, it showed us that our outside shooting does not command enough respect from other teams to stop them from sagging off and clogging driving and passing lanes in the paint. Part of this will correct itself, as I feel that players like AAA, Rudy, and Gallo (when he returns) will tend toward their career averages and we’ll see their percentages adjust. With that being said, none of them will ever have the shooting touch of a Ray Allen or – as we saw recently – a Steph Curry.
Secondly, due to the truncated and compacted schedule, practice time is minimal to non-existent. When will a new coach have the opportunity to install his system? And if we’re bringing in a coach to simply run the same system we currently have, I would hazard that no other coach runs it better than Karl. If, on the other hand, we were to bring in someone like Sloan, it would require a major adjustment in playing style on both offense and defense. I may not have ever played even high level college ball, but one thing I do know is that when you’re thinking about what you need to do (e.g. do I rotate here, do I need to switch, hedge and recover, etc.) rather than having an instinctual reaction, you play slow and without confidence. If you think our defense looks haphazard now, wait until you see what would happen with an entire new system installed mid-season with little to no practice time.
Finally, outside of a very few players, we are an extremely young team, with 5 players (Rudy, Brewer, Faried, Stone, and J-Ham) playing under Karl for the first time, and three players (Moz, K2, and Gallo) with hardly any more experience under Karl. Couple this with no off-season and hardly any training camp, and we have a team that is still learning about each other, and about their coach.
Listen, I get just as frustrated as anyone else with some of Karl’s bizarre rotations, strange lack of time outs (although Phil Jackson hardly ever called TO’s in game to stop runs), and seemingly irrational love of certain players. But I think that a change of coaches at this point could be even more detrimental to our team.
Just don't hold on to the damn basketball!!!
That was very logical and reasoned, but...........
I’ve come to the conculsion that this thread is not about debate so much as it is for people to vent (that’s putting it nicely). Most people on this thread (but not all) argue their opinion as if it’s indisputable fact, but when actual facts are brought up that contradict those opinions (ie The Nuggets have 11 players that have played in at least 20 of their 28 games and they are 1 of a handful of teams to have 7 players averaging 25+mins per game, meaning GK DOES in fact use his depth) well you get he kind of responses you see above.
I’ll say this much, it’s spirited! POINTLESS, but spirited. LOL
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 13, 2012 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
Spirited and tired of ".Getting to the Playoffs"
and going ONE and DONE.
Pointless is reading the same rhetoric to keep him for eight years
I'm not sure if you're responding to my post,
or to Larry’s, but my argument was strictly confined to the remainder of this season.
Just don't hold on to the damn basketball!!!
russscot..
its called frustration…passionate frustration with seeing the same thing over and over…
1. small ball (good for only a short period of time) having Typlay the "2" at 5’11 is crazy because it takes him out what he does best and puts Miller on a taller "2" for defense,a nd we all know how Miller is SLOOOOOWWWW.
1a. Karl thinks he is out-smarting everyone with his small ball but it truth, esp in the 4th, he is purposely creating defensive mis-matches for US by playing small ball cost us several games this year. ..
2. poor in-game coaching…not using timeouts. PHil doesn’t have to use timeout when he has Kobe in the game…we don’t have a Kobe type player…and all of you Karl supporters are saying that we’re a young team…well a young team needs coaching and needs a coach to call timeouts when the other team is on a run…STOP the OTHER TEAM’S MOMENTUM…surely Karl can do that….also I have been noticing the past few weeks that we have been losing after timeouts…case in point against Indy, when they call a timeout they would cut into our lead pretty quickly…where’s the coaching?
3. having a deep bench for once and not using it…going to his "trust" guys when clearly it might not be working on that night…not using our length (its not like we got stiffs who can’t run the floor)…we got rookies who can play…also, I laugh everything he trots out 4 guards and Big Al…really?
4. not having any real half-court sets…or like CB said, not having any inbound plays…in the playoffs, team WON’T let us run…hasn’t he figured that out yet? In the playoffs, scoring goes down because players actually care and the defenses are tougher to score on…
5. throwing his players under the bus in the media (it’s ok to chew a player out, heck I want that, but that has to be done in the locker room)…when I played in college, I remember how my coach threw a player under the bus after a tough loss, and we started to slowly stop listening to him…players (you, me or anyone) we don’t like EVERYONE to know what we did wrong, it’s not like we can say well coach the play you designed sucked against the 1-3-1 defense…
those are some of the frustrating things about Karl…and finally, we do NOT have a winning record against the west…so what makes anyone think we will do well in the playoffs this year?
In my perfect world, Karl would not have had a contract extension and he would not be coaching now. However, I will grant you that Karl has to stay the entire season and let this play out once again.
To all of the Karl supporters, I do know basketball and I do know Nuggets basketball. I am still not sure what makes you more qualified than me to write my thoughts on the coaching and this team…sure some of you played JV basketball in high school…awesome! But we all have different ideas on winning basketball…for me, you can’t teach height and length especially height that can run…I value more of a tradition rotation and do not like two PGs in at the same time when both PG are 6’3 and under. I believe if you want to run, then the whole team has to run and that substitution patterns needs to support that…meaning more frequent subbing throughout the game, especially in the first 3 quarters… I also believe that a coach can control the flow of the game by using his timeouts…I also believe that a coach needs to put his players in the best position to succeed meaning you can’t play a player in a position that they are not accustomed to (i.e Stone at SF or Big AL at C)
Again, I will respectfully agree to disagree with all of the Karl supporters…I hope you all enjoy mediocrity with another one and done if Karl continues to coach the way he has so far…
Have a nice day
LEEDS
I agree with most of your points (I do think the TO thing is a bit overblown). My point is that to replace Karl at this point would be an even greater detriment to the team than keeping him on. Hopefully we will have a clearer picture by the end of the season as to where this team truly stands, and what needs to be done for a future which includes a championship in Denver. Whether or not Karl is a part of that equation, I don’t know. But I do feel that it would be a large mistake – for the reasons I stated above – to replace him mid-season.
Just don't hold on to the damn basketball!!!
Respectfully disagree
this season is already lost. They will not be competing for a title, and long term, G.K. isn’t the answer. Better to get the new coach in here now so he can get a first hand evaluation of the players before the offseason. Prior to the season, I would have agreed that firing him in-season was counter productive. Then Karl arrived and has delivered next to nothing.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
some of us dont have to see through the season to know what is comin in the pIayoffs.
def not competin for a titIe. again some of you may just Iike to make the pIayoffs and win some big reguIar season games here and there against the Iakers and Iebron, and have team be some what reIevant, then go foIIow the broncs or something. have you guys reaIIy been foIIowin this team for 8 seasons or more and stiII be so guIIibIe.
This response is to both Rys and TIDBM
I don’t see this season as already lost, and I cannot understand that feeling. I’ve watched the Nuggets since they moved to the NBA, and can even remember the Bobby Jones trade (vaguely). I am still optimistic about this team and this season. If I felt the team had no chance to do something special this year, I would agree that a move a coach might make sense. But I don’t feel that way, and I think that’s where we differ. Yes, we had a five game losing streak, along with losing 6 out of 7. Yes, even before this bad stretch, we as fans saw some disturbing trends: opponents seeming to be able to make threes at will, inconsistent to putrid outside shooting, the lack of a coherent offensive game plan beyond the run and gun. We also have seen a team that was exciting to watch, willing to share the ball, and appears to genuinely like each other and playing together. I want the chance to see that team – fully healthy – play together.
I guess what it comes down to is whether or not one believes the season is already a lost cause. I don’t. I still believe that we can make noise, maybe more than noise, in the playoffs. And I am sure that a coaching change at this point would hamstring that chance.
Just don't hold on to the damn basketball!!!
i dont think this season is lost either
i think that we have an absolute monster march and april and make some noise in the playoffs. i also think masai will rob some other team of assets/picks before the deadline. i dont think we are championship ready now, but for this shortened cluster of a season, playoff noise (ie making it out of the first round and, at the very least, making the second round very competitive) would be a successful season
One number, Russcot
7-12 against the Western Conference.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 2:23 PM MST up reply actions
One other number
38 games remaining. We’ll see what happens. And agree to disagree about this season being lost and an in-season coaching change.
Just don't hold on to the damn basketball!!!
I understand exactly where you are coming from
as I felt very similarly not so long ago. When they lost too the lakers in the WCF I thought that another big and an improvement at backup pg were bigger needs than the coach.
I hope I am wrong about the rest of the season, but I can’t hide from that 7-12 number. I don’t see what is going to change to turn that around. The only realistic scenario I could see is signing W.C. to backup Gallo, and a trade of Harrington for a solid backup 4, but I fear both of those would be too late to turn things around.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
different pIayers makes it easy to be optimistic because you can just say oh we havent see them pIay much.
but i wouId rather have a team buiIt around meIo and jr and biIIups in the pIayoffs than a team who’s goin to have to pIay haIf court offense through gaIIo ty and nene.
someone made the argument that you can stiII run in the pIayoffs, yea but not as much you can get in the paint in the pIayoffs, yea but teams are goin to prepare for that too. you have to have some kind of baIance, when phx couIdnt run, they have nash and stat in pick and roIIs for haIf court offense, who do we have ty and nene…
What's funny about this
is that there are no unabashed George Karl fans. There are just people who think he is the reason for us not winning bigger and those that think the problem lies elsewhere. I happen to be the former. And from my point of view it looks childish to point fingers at him after every loss regardless of what actually happened on the court. Any objective viewer watching that Houston would game would come away from that thinking the team played horrible and not because of lack of coaching. Yet people act like GK has joysticks for each player behind the bench that he controls and if they fail it’s because of him and him alone. To me it’s he same as those people who don’t want Wes Welker on the team anymore because he didn’t catch that ball. Yeah they might have won if he catches it but it’s not the reason they lost and the team will be worse without him!
We all have followed this team during Karl’s tenure and during this time the team/Karl have gone through (in no particular order):
Nene’s cancer scare (misses most of the year)
Nene’s knee surgury (misses most of the year)
Kenyon has surgury on his left knee
Kenyon comes back but gets suspended for conduct detrimental to the team
Kenyon misses a large portion of a season to tendonitis
Kenyon has surgury on his right knee
Birdman’s suspension for drug use
Nuggets trade Andre Miller (team leader) for Allen Iverson (eventual team cancer)
Melo is suspended for a quarter of the season for “fighting” the Knicks
Melo’s “Stop Snitchin” video
Melo’s DUI
JR Smith and Melo’s car accident
JR Smith is charged with Vehicuar Manslaughter
JR Smith serves a month in jail and is suspended by the NBA for a week
Coby Karl gets cancer
George Karl gets cancer
Nuggets star player demands a trade and is granted
NBA lockout with a roster Karl has only spent 2 months and no real training camp with.
And through all of that he has still somehow always gotten us to the playoffs Including the Western Conference FInals for only the 2nd time in the teams NBA history. I am of the belief that if he doesn’t get sick we get there again the next year.
Yes Karl has his quirks but instead of a “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” mentality I say address the real issues with the team.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
What on this team hasn't been changed in that time except Karl?
Nene is the only player on the team for that entire period. Ownership has changed. G.M.‘s have changed. Karl has been here long enough to know he’s not part of the solution. Watch Moneyball, if you haven’t. Karl is the manager refusing to play the team the way it was built to play.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 1:03 PM MST up reply actions
Now THERE is an interesting topic!
How do you think this team is built to play?
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 1:11 PM MST up reply actions
i think its built to play in whatever system the coach desires
the players are there, the youth to develop are there. hell there are enough players that you could mold two completely different lineups and have them operate different systems (not saying this is wise or possible, but you could). im slowly coming to terms with the fact that run and gun teams can’t win in the playoffs. and im coming to terms with the fact that this season is detrimental to the nuggets since they run. if they run more and play at a faster tempo it makes more sense for them to need more rest, especially the old guys. everyone and their mother has been saying that al and dre have been dragging ass and its pretty obvious that theyre being run to the ground
before they compIained that karI didnt have the right pIayers to coach.
now that he has his ‘team’ he is not effectiveIy pIayin this teams depth, onIy pIayin 8 guys and goin with smaII baII way too much especiaIIy Iate in games when they couId use a big guy other than i suck at rebs nene, to get that reb away from other teams sgs… why are aI and miIIer is in the game to pIay defense, i can see no other reason than if they do get the reb, so they can go right in to their offense with out havin to caII a TO.
aIso the coach shouId adjust to the pIayers, not the other way around, why do you guys Iet him get away with that stuff.
I think it was built to play large
to do to the league what the lakers have been doing. Big ball, instead of the small ball they ahve been playing. Karl has for years (since the camby trade) been moaning in public about the need to get another/more big men. I can still see the need for a backup 4, but they could still play big with the current lineup. Mozzy and K2 split the C minutes. Nene/Bird/Al split the PF minutes. Gallo/Al split the SF minutes. AAA, Brewer, and Rudy split at 2. and Lawson and Dre split the 1. When they had full strength, they should have been the biggest squad in the league and they should have been killing it on defense and rebounds. Instead, we’ve seen small ball that any competent college team could score against and outrebound.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
i agree
I thought when they said this season that Nene would start at PF, i thought he would stay at PF, not just for the few minutes of each half. I thought we were going to have a monster inside game with two legit 7 footers in the polar bears, a powerful PF in Nene and having a tall SF in Gallo. but GK is running Al to the ground and not giving the big guys enough burn. The things that we have been lamenting these last games (rebounding, interior defense, and defending the 3) can all be counteracted by playing a normal lineup with two legit bigs on the floor.
Which Kevin are you
the hipster doofus or the lesbian? I can’t keep track?
(all in joking fun)
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 2:33 PM MST up reply actions
Sweet
He can tell us when G.K. gets canned, and which players to draft to set up a dynasty!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 2:42 PM MST up reply actions
Excuse me?!
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 14, 2012 7:16 PM MST up reply actions
Fuck you say?
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
#FreeFaried on twitter. Join the Revolution!
by KevinAwesome on Feb 14, 2012 7:17 PM MST up reply actions
Has George sayd "this is the best team I have ever coached" yet?
He says that at some point every season.
What about this
There have been plenty of boneheaded plays called that had GK’s thumbprints all over them.
1. AC inbouding the ball against a 7 footer.
2. shoots 35 3’s for the night and goes 5 for 35. Why wouldn’t you say, ‘dude, if you shoot another 3 tonight you are gonna ride the pine for weeks!’
3. Players looking exhausted to play them more and leave the rested guys on the bench.
Without these three things Nuggets might have had a championship by now.
aIso ac on kobe, pIayin maIik aIIen, benchin jr tiII it's too Iate to come back.
watchin team impIode then Iook down at what seems to be some pretty interestin Iookin hands.
I think going big is how they are going to win in the future
but not right now. I have a man-crush on Mozgov but he’s not ready to be on the floor 25-30 minutes a night. Neither is KK but he’s more ready than Mozgov. He looks lost too often and plays like he doesn’t realize he’s the biggest guy on the court. I know we are all clamoring for Faried to play, but he’s not ready either. Relying on Miller and Harrington for major minutes is and will be a problem but to win you have to have your best players on the floor and those 2 fit that description for better or worse right now. Once Mozgov becomes an offensive force and learns to get his buckets whenever he wants that’s when you will see this team take off.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 2:00 PM MST reply actions
Agree on Faried
And I think you have to suffer through some growing pains with Mozzy and KK. G.K. always takes a view of what he thinks will win the next game on the schedule, and tries to win that game. I think that is a somewhat myopic view, and it results in a failure to develop Mozzy and KK, and in wearing down players who should be protected by limited minutes, as we have seen with Billups and Kmart in prior years and are seeing this year with Al, Miller, and Nene being played at C.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 14, 2012 2:28 PM MST up reply actions
what better year to suffer through growing pains than this one?
where fresh legs can often over shadow opponents team weaknesses?
This is where things aren't as they seem
Of the 28 games we’ve played 11 players have played in 20 of them. And there is only 1 player on this roster that doesn’t get at least 10 minutes of action when they do get in the game and that’s Jordan Hamilton. Those stats show that GK does in fact play his bench.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 4:00 PM MST up reply actions
How many times have we been blown out this year? 2 times?
Everyone has injuries and have to go to their bench. There might be 5 teams whos bench plays those kind of minutes
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 5:48 PM MST up reply actions
Dude,
That’s 1/14th of the games we played.
Doesn’t sound like a lot but how about if we remove 1/14th of our index finger. Ouch!
Painful but not enough to stop me from raining 3's!
also not enough to sku that minutes averaged figure I pointed out.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 7:12 PM MST up reply actions
According to my Sex-box....
or what you might call a PC lol. At least 9 players have played in every game this year except for 1. The Knicks game where GK played only 7 the whole game. The team is averaging 5 bench players a game playing with 4 of them getting double figures in minutes. He does use the bench.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 9:57 PM MST up reply actions
The first part of your post is TMI
The second part is accurate. However, it is not just about rotating 8+ per game and giving them equal distribution of minutes. The problems seem to come in when he (George) is overly achieving equality in playing minutes despite the bad things going on. When a guy is stinking up the joint he needs to come out except for the odd couple of minutes to give a rest to the guy who isn’t stinking up the place. This is what I think of when I think of coaching.
I know in the past he has said he thinks it is better for a player and team to play through the bad spots. This is one of the reasons why he sometimes hangs onto those timeouts because he thinks playing through the problem is the solution. I disagree with this philosophy.
A lot of people do disagree with it.
but it doesn’t make the philosophy wrong. And it certainly doesn’t make it OBVIOUS why the team struggles when it does.
a couple of people tried to argue that the injuries are caused by GK not using his bench. I think the stat I showed proved that’s not true. He does use his bench. His rotations are an arguement for another day my friend. One I’m happy to have.
“how many games has he used the entire bench all 15 players?” WOW
Those are the arguments for firing George Karl? LOL
georgekarl, even you gotta admit the people arguing the point are a little…..off.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 14, 2012 11:01 PM MST reply actions
Yeah, I do. Let the facts speak for themselves
There are plenty of games where you can actually pin point the person who lost the game for a team. Last night against Memphis may be one of them. As someone else said ‘you can’t expect to win the whole game when you only play half of it’ and that’s what happened last night.
With the last .2 where it was still possible to win it, why was Kufos not in there? Why wasn’t the play for someone (maybe taller than Dre) to pass the ball over the rim to a 7 footer to drop it in?
It is stuff like that that consistently makes me question George Karls ability to coach a team in the playoffs.
I know we disagree on different points and that is totally legit but there can be no question that the Nuggets are the hamster on the wheel. Doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results over and over again. Just not the results I would want to see.
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