Miller becoming "the man" wrong move for Nuggets
by Nate Timmons on Feb 1, 2012 7:01 AM MST
in Denver Nuggets: News and Opinion
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We are over a quarter of the way through the 2011-12 NBA campaign and while the Denver Nuggets are 14-7 and still in second place in the Western Conference, some disturbing trends are starting to take place. One being that George Karl is relying heavily on a 35 year-old point guard who has a very uncertain future in the Mile High City ...
Welcome to February 1st, 2012.
In December Andre Miller averaged 30.8 minutes per game.
In January Miller averaged 31 minutes per game.
Miller is 35 years-old now and will be 36 years-old on March 19th.
While Miller is a freak of nature as far as durability and not wearing down goes, he is still living on NBA borrowed time with his advancing age. Miller again showed last season (2010-11) that he isn't a guy who can wear down through a grueling 82 game season (as he's proved his entire career). He averaged from his low of 29.1 minutes per month in April 2010 up to 36.8 minutes in February of 2010. His points per game never dipped dramatically (not counting a short seven game April) and he averaged 32.2 minutes per game in the playoffs (six games) to go along with 14.8 points and 5.5 assists. But sometime in the not so far off future, the old guard is going to have to hang them up.
Miller is a wonderful player, a gifted one, and the point guard you want on your team if you are trying to win a ring in the next season or two. The Nuggets are very spoiled to have Miller on their team this season, as a backup. But Miller is still such a fine player that his production, while helping the team win now, might very well be hurting the very player he was brought in to help. Ty Lawson. And you can even make the case that Miller's heavy minutes are hurting Arron Afflalo and Rudy Fernandez, as well.
From reader KarlFanHenry in last night's recap:
…and then tell us how on earth Lawson and the young guns can step up with the bizarre line-ups Karl is tossing out onto the floor like f****** garbage?! Ty Lawson needs the keys to the damned car! Playing him with Miller so much of the time may be working from a stats POV, but it’s far from an effective way to develop Lawson’s game. I’d much rather lose with more traditional rotations than see this CRAP one more game! Lawson needs to be out there more PERIOD—and out there more without Miller taking over the leadership duties. Player development has to be job one right now.
And how could Gallo step up with his ass over there glued to the bench?! No, he hadn’t been effective in this game, but heretofore he’s been given the benefit of the doubt no matter what, which is 100% the CORRECT CALL. What the hell happened tonight?!
And from reader rhaustin in last night's recap:
Walking the ball up the court, a turnover every other minute and taking no account of the youth/athleticism/energy of your opponent at crunch time is a recipe for failure. Unless Ty could not run, he should have been bringing the ball up when the tide turned (if not before), Gallo clearly was needed for rebounding and defense in overtime (if not before) and putting all your marbles on Miller/Harrington after they had played 30+ minutes each is just plain dumb. This is the second straight game given away by stubborn reliance on the older guys who probably won’t even be here next season.
If we don’t see primary reliance on Ty, Gallo and our players for the future against the Clippers Thursday, we will know Karl is in a dangerous brain lock!
The question being asked, Can the Nuggets win the whole thing this season or should the Nuggets be looking to the future over the next three to four seasons?
While I think the Nuggets have a legitimate shot to compete in the playoffs this season, I'm becoming more worried about what is going to happen after this season. Miller is in the last year of his contract and may get an opportunity to start some place else next season. The Nuggets have their point guard of the future on the team now in Lawson and he was finally supposed to have the "keys to the car" as KarlFanHenry pointed about above.
Lawson, who is averaging 34.2 minutes per game this season, once again has the training wheels handicapping him. When Miller is on the floor, Lawson is deferring to him (like he said he would) and taking himself almost totally out of the offense by standing in the corner. So his 34.2 mpg are a little deceiving from an effectiveness standpoint.
Yes, Lawson and Miller have had their success on the floor this season as well. Big men can find them on quick outlets and the playmakers have had some nice fast-breaks this season. But Lawson doesn't need training wheels and the Nuggets need to figure out if he can handle the team and handle the pressure late in games.
How far would you go to see if Lawson can truly be the Nuggets point guard of the future? Would limiting Miller's minutes from around 30 mpg to 20 mpg be the answer? Should the Nuggets go on the extreme and trade Miller to truly give Lawson his own team?
The challenge of the post-trade Nuggets was and is to see if Denver can develop a true team. Some have argued for an entire rebuild of the Nuggets from letting Nene go to not extending players during this season. Others, like me, have thought that mixing in a few right pieces with the players in tow, could result in the Nuggets competing for a title sooner.
The Nuggets have a couple nice veterans in Miller and Al Harrington that have stepped up for the team this season, but they play the same positions as key young players on this team. In giving Miller and Harrington big minutes, Karl is tasked with finding the right ways to continue developing Lawson, Afflalo, Fernandez, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, Kosta Koufos, and Kenneth Faried.
I would argue that the Nuggets young players are not being developed to the best of their ability. Lawson is forced to split time and defer to Miller when they are on the floor together. Afflalo and Fernandez are often left on the bench in favor of Miller. Mozgov and Koufos are battling for playing time with Harrington, Gallo, and Nene. And Faried has been left to play the waiting game when he's not being thrown garbage time minutes.
The Nuggets are faced with a weird dilemma. The team is too good to develop the young players in the way that other teams are able to. In Sacramento rookie Jimmer Fredette is seeing 23.2 mpg, New York's rookie Iman Shumpert is averaging 30.4 mpg and 10.9 points, Memphis' Mike Conley is the same age as Lawson and they average the same minutes per game but Conley is the unquestioned point guard on the Grizzlies, and second round pick Chandler Parsons is seeing 24.3 mpg for the 12-9 Rockets (8th Place).
I don't think the Nuggets need to go on the extreme and trade Miller, but I do think the Nuggets need to think more about what they are doing to the young guys on the team and figure out a way to develop them in a better fashion, even if it means losing a few games along the way.
Lawson needs to be running this team, Afflalo and Fernandez need to be occupying the bulk of the 48 available minutes at shooting guard, and Miller needs to become more of a backup and not "the man" for the Nuggets.
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No matter what happens this season,
Ty (along with Gallo) is the future of this team. I don’t care if we suffer another first-round exit as long as we’re not limiting their growth. We’re not in “win now” mode.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 7:10 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Miller needs to limited..
I like Miller’s game is you limit him to 20-25 minutes a game. We need less of the two PG lineups, especially in crunch time when teams are NOT letting us run. We need to see Gallo in there even if he is having a bad game. We need to see Faried in the game in the 2nd period for a 5-7 minute stretch. Let him run with the two PG lineups in the 2nd. We need NOT see Birdman. We know what he is and that is NOT very good anymore. Nene needs to quit bitching to the refs! AAA looks dishearten as he probably thought he would have a bigger rol on the team. Rudy is great off the bench fr 20-25 minutes. Big Al, although out to a great start this season, should NOT be logging anything north of 30 minutes. Mozgov needs to play more than his 7-8 minutes beginning of each half. WE freaking finally have height and length and a deep roster BUT GK never uses it!
I am so frustrated with his in-game management and lack of trust of his younger players.
Miller
is the only one willing to bring it in crunch time. You can see it, everyone besides him is afraid of the ball in the last five minutes. It was like hot potato out there, guys couldn’t get rid of the ball fast enough. Where was Gallo the last mins of regulation & overtime? This trend is disturbing!
Release the Tebow!
Gallo was on the bench from midway through the third quarter on...
Nuggets' commin'...best recognize (Fernandez/Manimal...oop of the year)
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by Jeffrey Morton on Feb 1, 2012 9:45 AM MST up reply actions
1-10 shooting, I think
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
And Karl said in Hochman's recap that it was to give AAA a chance to close a game.
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Miller definitely needs to be on the floor in crunchtime
unless he is having a really bad game or, in the alternative, if we are not really trying to win.
the nuggs don't...
rebound
play defense when they are ahead
The nuggs do…
turn the damn ball over
lose a lead like you cannot believe
they are starting to lose at home
play a perimeter game
lose to teams they should beat
this has been going on for years. So – it’s Karl’s a fault. he may have a defensive mindset, but at the time we need it it is not showing. And the rebounding… geeze…
The constant has been george karl. i have to admit this. i have been on his side for years. now, what i see, is a coach who is missing the fundamentals
Choose one or the other
Sacramento & New York? If we want to suffer the miserable fate of those teams and fans of seeing talent being “developed” on depressingly incompetent teams, then I suppose so. You think in 3 seasons Sac as it stands will have turned it around because they finally developed all their pieces? If we put in our young talent and develop them on the floor, then in all liklihood, we will become a worse team in terms of wins/losses. Does that mean that in a few seasons, they’ll be the team that’s ready to make a deep run? Sounds good on paper, but I don’t think it’ll pan out like that.
Unlike Chauncey, I don’t think Miller is trying to impose his will on this team. He’s filling in when it’s needed, and he’s pulled it out for a couple of games when it was sorely needed. I think that’s why GK has him in for so long. GK wants the win this year, thinks it possible, and will use the pieces he trusts to get them there.
GK, the lineups, and other bizarre coaching decisions irritate me the same as others, but at the end of the day, this season has gone WAAY better than originaly anticipated, and with the exception of maybe 3 games (NO, Utah, Memphis), this has been a fun team to watch. As a fan, I’m glad and will take the old folks leading the charge if the young guys are still finding their confidence.
So you are happy with blowing three games that we should have won?
these games willhaunt us later in the year when it comes to playoff seeding
happy? no.
but, i’m worlds happier than NY & Sac fans
The "development" issue is very interesting
particularly given that it seems a number of our players (Gallo and Lawson in particular, but also a few guys left for dead like Brewer and Koufos) are playing at levels far surpassing what most would have previously anticipated. In prior years, Karl has made effective players out of castoffs like AAA and Jones, Birdman, etc.
It seems to me that GK does develop players during the season with reasonable success. The question here seems to be whether we should sacrifice likely Ws for the purpose of further developing our young players. My view is pretty much “no.” The team is playing very well with the exception of the last 2 4Qs. We need to finish better and win more games. Development takes its course. Its not like we have a megastar sitting on the bench under lock and key.
Make FTs
please. Nuggs missed crucial FTs in the last mins of regulation last night. Make those and it’s not even an issue
Release the Tebow!
by NewEraNugg on Feb 1, 2012 8:12 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
best FT shooter (Gallo) was on the bench
This is where we miss Chauncey the most, I think. Even Gallo, whose FT percentage is in the high 80’s, is not as clutch as Chauncey. And the rest of the team is significantly behind Gallo in this department.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 12:00 PM MST up reply actions
And to me, Miller has been a suspect free throw shooter when it counts. He’s only a 80% career guy and he has missed big ones in the past. Lawson hasn’t been very good under pressure and really … nobody on the team has been nails. Nene did knock down two monster free throws in NY.
I was hoisting up freebies at the gym today and thinking about how easy it is to do one tiny thing wrong and miss the shot. Can’t imagine the pressure those dudes face.
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man, totally
I often like to shoot 10 FT’s in a row, see how many I can make. I’ve never made 10 in a row, but I’ve done 9 a few times. But sometimes I’ve been as low as 3.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 1:58 PM MST up reply actions
Jordan used to get bored
and shoot them with his eyes closed.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 2:18 PM MST up reply actions
Haha 11 is my record.
But 23 in a row is my record from NBA 3, and I consistently make 5-10 from half court. Go figure.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss. But currently slumming in a high-level management position.
A pretty bold article
But someone had to say it. No one can take away what Miller has meant for this season, but Karl needs to stop being so myopic and thrust some leadership onto Ty.
yes, but
Ty needs to go out and take it too
He does
But it is unfair for GK to put Ty in the position of having to step on a veteran’s toes. It’s clear right now that the established roles have Andre handling the ball.
it's unfair
but this is the case in regular jobs too. so sometimes you just have to balance egos, hurt feelings, politics, and go after what you want. This whole unselfish team mentality has worked out great so far, but unless we keep a great winning record, it will fall apart. As our current and future leader, Ty needs to navigate through the headwinds and find a way to get to where he wants to be. Miller has already said it’s Ty’s team, so I’m thinking he himself won’t be a hugh obstacle.
Good points
GK could side-step all of this uncomfort for the players and actually assume some responsibility in switching up the roles. A great coach instills confidence in his players.
Exactly the reason why Andre needs to go
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
by CombatChuk on Feb 1, 2012 8:33 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's not true
Everybody touches the ball in a Karl lineup. You’re not paying attention. Fernandez plays point, Lawson plays point, even Gallo plays point-forward on occasion. Lawson IMO wouldn’t be very effective with the ball in his hands all game for 38 MIN. He’s a great player, but not a pure PG who would dish effectively all game. Lawson’s best dishes come on drive penetration in the key. Take that away Lawson become very ordinary as a distributor.
This whole conversation is a big distraction from the real issue – getting bigger and tougher inside. That, like a few games before it, is what lost us the game. Tony Allen looked like Bill Russell pounding the O-Glass and he couldnt be stopped. Our team kinda reminds me of OKC last year – they were pretty good until they traded away Krstic and got Perkins. They actually had someone who could finally guard the paint and rebound. I’m hoping Mozzy can fill this role.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
by zeusmith on Feb 1, 2012 8:40 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Not sure how much I have to offer because I'm not paying attention, but I'll try...
I guess I wasn’t paying attention last night when for the entire fourth quarter and overtime, Miller was handling the ball. Over thast same period of time, we blew the lead and lost the game.
Ummm, that's not what I sqw
I saw Lawson handling a good portion of the time. When you say ‘handling’, yeah sure Miller takes the ball up the court a large portion of the time but then dishes the ball off to Fernandez/Lawson/Affailo over half court. That’s where the handling really matters. I dont see too many high percentage shot coming from the back court. Gallo even takes the ball up semi-regularly. And what about that Lawson miss on the fast break blocked from behind in OT? That would have put us up 7. 3 on 1 too.
Lots of blame to go around, but this article is a boogie man of misdirection and plain failness IMO. Takes away from the real issues – because Miller/Lawson debate is not one of them IMO.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I can agree with most of that
Tho Lawson got straight up stuffed. Other issues are clear as well: AAA, lack of a big man, tiny lineups, and while this was NOT Dre’s fault, it drove me crazy to see Karl make him one of the two go-to scorers last night.
So why aren't we talking about that?
Instead of this boogie man:
Miller becoming “the man” wrong move for Nuggets
Long time Miller watchers know that he NEVER tries to be the man/go-to guy if the lead guys are doing their job.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I accept that
Last night, Miller was clearly the go-to-guy down the stretch (mainly becuase there really was no one else). I can’t let that go with so many scorers on the team. Blame it on the players on the court for not stepping up, but I blame GK for not allowing Gallo back on the court,
And the lack of an offense
in the half court. It bites them in the ass every game. With the really good offensive systems, you see the hockey assist (two passes to get a basket) on a regular basis. You’ll see one of them about once a game from the nuggets.
They were at full strength last night, playing a bad team on a losing streak that didn’t have their best player.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:08 AM MST up reply actions
I figured this was the case just from following the score on my phone
When I saw the game was tight in overtime, and then saw the Grizz take the lead with a minute left, I figured the Nugs were doomed, because they sure as hell weren’t going to get any fastbreak opportunities, and yeah, they have no system for generating a good look at the basket in the half court.
That OT period last night is probably a good preview of what the playoffs will be like.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
Nuggets had a nice opportunity late to get a bucket, Afflalo had Miller open under the hoop and just fired the pass too hard out of bounds … seemed like a play where nerves got the best of him.
Do you think the more Denver plays these tight games the better they will get? Has to happen right? Wrong?
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i think they will get better
and come playoff time, i would rather have several of these games under our belt than experience what we went through last year against OKC.
That is a good point.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
even if it means a lower seed from some losses
i am still firmly in the belief that we can be a #2 or #3 seed this year.
This Thread becomes relevant
If Miller is chucking 18 shots a game and taking the last shot if Gallo/Nene/Afflalo are hot as well. In that case, i agree I dont want Miller taking over. But that wasn’t the case -at all. And I know Miller will only try to exert his will as option C or D, so I dont get this thread.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Agree completely
Miller carried us for most of last night. If he “stepped back” we probably lose comfortably in regulation.
If he hits that shot at the end of regulation (around the rim and out)
We have a different discussion today…but that is not how the ball bounced.
exactly
There were about 10 things last night that, if the ball bounces differently, we win. We should have won, there’s no doubt, and being upset about it is perfectly reasonable.
Even if Denver won that game last night, it’s still worth discussing, to me, how the Nuggets are winning games. I’d feel much better if Lawson, Gallo, and Nene were the ones hitting big shots down the stretch rather than Miller. I really like Miller’s game and think he’s still a big time NBA player (obvious to anyone), but I just am waiting for the young guys to take the reigns.
Perhaps more time?
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Perhaps the article would be still necessary
But the tone of the comments would be much different.
In the abstract
I agree with you. Not only because those guys are my favorite players, but also for development/growth.
But this is not a developmental season, thus I want whoever is playing well to take the shots. We’re winning largely due to how well our bench plays vs. the opposing bench. Making our bench weaker (either by dumping guys or playing them less) is not what will lead to success for this team this season.
"I guess I wasn’t paying attention last night when for the entire fourth quarter and overtime"
Same goes for the five nuggets on the floor.
exactly
If Ty plays better, he gets more minutes. I don’t see how you can blame Karl for playing his best player last night the most minutes. Gallo sucked, Lawson was mediocre, and Mozzy couldn’t stay on the floor. Without Miller and Al, we lose by 10+ points because the starters failed. How is this Miller’s fault again?
We’re so blessed to have Miller on this team – how many teams have that depth at PG? Or even have a legit starting PG to begin with? Yet, he’s being chastised for “Go-To” man for some insane reason. Miller never wants to become a “Go-To” man; he only does it by default when he senses the team needs it. And who exactly stepped up last night to prevent Miller from being that guy? Yeah, exactly. Guess 8-13 from the field isn;t good enough.
Bottom line: If Gallo/Affailo/Lawson hit shots, Miller defaults back into assist mode and this conversation never happens.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
This article isn’t just about last night’s game. Miller was clearly one of the best players on the floor last night. The larger issue is Miller averaging over 30 minutes per game as a 36 year-old guard with a contract that expires after the season. Is it the right move to continue that pattern?
It’s fine if you believe that is the best move for this team, I’m just asking the question.
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You know Karl has no ability to limit minutes
for aging or injury prone players. Just ask Billups and Kmart. He plays them much more than he should so they are worn out or injured for the playoffs.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:32 AM MST up reply actions
But I'm curious why THIS is the question when clearly it isn't an issue
Miller’s been playing more minutes because Lawson has either been out or injured. And he plays more when in small lineups when guys like Gallo and Afflalo aren’t effective. GK rightfully is trying to win games by playing his best players. When all starts settling down, Miller will go back to 28-30 MIN a game, which is great for the team.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
We can also say Miller has been forced into action more because of AAA and Rudy’s injuries too. You are right, when healthy perhaps the minutes will go down.
The other issue though: clearly Karl wants Lawson and Miller in there at the end of games. We’ll see that 100% of the time all season and in the playoffs. So that limits what you can do with the other three positions, thus the issue of playing small comes up.
With Lawson and Miller you can only go with three other guys: Karl has been using combinations of:
Rudy
Afflalo
Gallo
Harrington
With Nene being the center no matter what.
so really Karl is having to choose just two guys to go with Lawson, Miller and Nene. Never will he choose a big like Mozgov, Koufos or Birdman … is that the right move? It’s all relative.
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by Nate Timmons on Feb 1, 2012 9:42 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Karl needs to stop the 2 PG nonsense in the 4th quarter
They’re not even running so why the 2 PG. watch the tape of the past few games with Miller in there in the 4th. He walks it up like he always does. 53 minutes last night and we couldn’t even crack a 100 pts.
This is my frsutration. We have height and length and we choose to go with a 5’11 and a 6’2 PG to close out games…really? WTF
I agree
If Miller & Lawson are in the game together, which is fine IMO in controlled minutes, he has to go big in the front court. Unfortunately, when Karl plays Miller/Lawson, he also tends to go small with the rest of the lineup, and thats hurts the rebounding. Miller actually rebounds well for position, but he’s got to sacrifice some front court offense for defense.
I wouldnt mind a Miller – Lawson – Harrington – Nene- Mozgov lineup at times. Good back court scoring and passing, with nene post scorer and Mozzy for defense/rebounding.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
And replace Harrington with Gallo during certain games/stretches?
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Trade Andre Miller
He’s a temporary crutch for this team, and we’re learning bad habits from it.
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
by CombatChuk on Feb 1, 2012 8:22 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
We're learning bad habits
From our starters who aren’t playing well, forcing the bench to play more than optimally required. Damn, we have the best bench in the NBA and Karl is forced to play it more than designed because they are better than the starters a good part of the time.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Disagree
Dre is worth 12 wins, if not already.
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
I don't get the point of this thread
We wouldn’t have even been in the game if it wasn’t for Miller and Harrington last night. The bench kept us in it, and Miller was our best player. The two guard lineup in fine WITHIN LIMITS, and I don’t see what the big issue is as long as it isn’t overplayed. Lawson is more scorer oriented and not a pure PG so there’s a nice contrast while on the floor WITHIN LIMITS. Lawson is getting 32 MIN/game, so his development isn’t being hindered at all. He’s had some nagging injuries limiting effectivenss as well.
Ideally, you don’t want Miller being the man often because he’s a pure PG not a pure scorer. He’s a fantastic complementary player. The bigger issue is why our starters have been inconsistent (Lawson, Gallo) and soft interior defense. If we can iron out those deficiencies, Miller wouldn’t have to play 39 MIN/game.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
by zeusmith on Feb 1, 2012 8:24 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
That’s the whole point of the thread. Why is a young team leaning on two aging veterans? Is a “win now” approach the best thing for this team? Sure Lawson is on the floor a lot, but is it best to have him deferring to Miller? Do we see Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook and other deferring to their backup point guard? Is it the right move to keep such a quality point guard on the roster in Miller?
I totally agree that interior play is a different topic and another beast, but it’s all related in a way too.
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The thing is
I don’t think Lawson is Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo or Russell Westbrook. He’s a cut below that, mainly because he’s a much inferior passer. Still good but more instant offense good and good passing on drives kick-outs but not in half court sets.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
by zeusmith on Feb 1, 2012 9:37 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you think he can improve or will the Nuggets be forced to keep a quality backup guard around with him here for his career? Will Denver always need a passer to go along with Lawson?
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I think so
In college Ty excelled at using his speed to draw in defenders and just kick out the easy pass (like he’s doing here), as he gets older he’s gonna lose speed so that won’t be as effective anymore.
I really hoped that this was the Ty’s passing would “breakthrough” but so far I haven’t seen it.
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
ALSO having Andre out with Ty and Ty defering to Andre
is setting Ty’s development back (Which is NOT what he needs), we need to move Andre soon or risk Ty not growing
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
My position is
The Nuggets are blessed to have Miller, and should do everything they can to resign him. Not only is it great depth against injury, which seems to plague Lawson from time-to-time, he’s great bench depth is general and can be effective with Lawson in the game together in CONTROLLED minutes. Miller’s not going to try being the guy – he never has. Lawson can do his thing, and the more he improves, the more Miller’s minutes will decline. Whether Miller accepts that is another thing, but winning may cure many ills.
Why wouldn’t any team want a quality backup, especially at the point? Or any position for that matter? Lawson can and will be the guy if he TAKES it. Management has already made that clear. Hopefully Lawson will and Miller can be convinced to resign here.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Great points.
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by Nate Timmons on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 AM MST via Android app up reply actions
How much do you want to invest in the backup pg?
Miller makes $7 million this season, and re-signing him would put the nuggets over the cap. What would you pay him?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
I would throw a 2-year, $10M contract his way.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
yep
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
Not unreasonable
I don’t know if he would sign for that. And you are paying your backup PG twice what you are paying the starter. Also puts you over the cap, so you can’t sign anyone else.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
I really think
Bird gets amnestied next year
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
zeus, you are money on this. The Lakers would KILL to have one decent PG, let alone two. We would be sacrificing one of our biggest advantages for basically nothing (or, I guess, to test out Ty Lawson to see if he’s Derrick Rose). I love Lawson, I think he’s a stud. But with Miller, we put out some of the best nightly PG play in the league. Again, if winning is the goal, Miller should play as much as he can given circumstances.
And just worry about the off-season when we get there?
Part of me worries that Miller will leave and then Lawson is another year into his career trying to figure out how to run the team. But I guess if Denver could win a ring this season, it’d totally be worth it.
I’m not a big “rebuild” guy. I like the re-tool on the fly approach Denver has used, just trying to figure out if it is the best way to go.
(Not trying to be a dick or anything, just asking questions)
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I was totally a rebuild guy last year
I wanted the Favors deal, I wanted Nene traded, etc. But that was before I realized how talented some of our guys are (specifically Gallo). This team is good, and worrying about this offseason is a disservice to it. Miller may or may not re-up (its interesting that your argument presupposes that he’s good enough to start for a good team but shouldn’t be playing backup for us) but we’ll make appropriate adjustments then. Right now, I now want to win every night and Miller is one of the key guys that allows that to happen.
by Teekalong on Feb 1, 2012 3:13 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Once Ty gets back into the swing of things and the nuggs are still losing stupid games
Stiffs will be calling for Tys head just like they are calling for AAA now.
It’s proof that you can’t please this crowd. Any sport is about the wins now. You tell me that you would trade a championship this year and nothing for five years for a maybe run at greatness? You take what you can get now and what we have now is andre miller. He has a higher ball iq than lawson and lawson isn’t exactly trying to BE the man so why should anyone GIVE it to him.
I would even argue that
relying on the aged veterans will not even “win now” when it comes to the playoffs. They’ll play a big role in getting us there. But relying on them in the playoffs will no doubt lead to an early exit. We need our most promising players with the biggest upsides to develop with these vets. Otherwise, we stand no chance against the OKC’s of the world who rely on their high-upside players to have big games.
yes but even if you leave in a hot Miller or even hotter Harrington
you still need to involve your, in general best players. Gallo, Ty and Nene. And need to play our G’damn center because Centers are usualyl pretty good at blocking shots and getting rebounds something we could really have used in crunch time.
Suggested Stiffs name change
“Small Ball, No Sack”
by Pusherman on Feb 1, 2012 8:26 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Nene
as always was charmin soft in the last couple minutes. He’d couldn’t get rid of the ball faster when it came to him
Release the Tebow!
Why would you complain about this?
Nene is Rasheed Wallace without the technicals. He’s never going to be the guy who wants the ball with pressure. He is what he is, accept him for that and move on.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 8:49 AM MST up reply actions
No moving on
his game changes in the last few minutes which is not what this team needs. Not asking him to be a blackhole, asking for him not to turn the ball over because he telegraphs passes and can’t get the hot potato out fast enough in crunch time. Like Hastings always says, got to at least be a threat to score
Release the Tebow!
He's never going to be that
It’s like asking Karl to stop playing stupid lineups. It’s never going to happen, so you either live with it, or you ask for a change by getting rid of the player. They just re-signed Nene, so no change is coming.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
Why
then was be living up to your screen name in the Clipper game in the last mins???
I think he can, but is there the WILL?
Release the Tebow!
There isn't the will
he doesn’t have the mentality. Very few of the current group of players has it. Kobe certainly. Melo, but only on offense. DWade. A few others. They would rather have fun, stay relaxed, and collect their millions. Not like the prior generation where players agonized over losses.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:18 AM MST up reply actions
The problems won't go away until Karl does
Fly Agaric last night declared that G.K. is a good manager of egos. I would like to ask what evidence he has of this. Like Republican economic theory, there isn’t any evidence to support this idea.
Karl got run out of Seattle for clashing with his stars.
Karl got run out of Milwaukee for clashing with his stars.
Karl had to bench Kmart during the playoffs for defying his stupid coaching.
Karl had his best player, Melo, pleading for him to “not just sit there” during the playoffs.
Karl benched his best player, Melo, for defying him by refusing to come out of a game when he was hot.
When Chauncey Billups first arrived, he spoke publicly about the disarray of the team and the lack of certain basic elements like inbounding plays. Inbounding plays, if you remember, cost the team a shot at the NBA finals.
Karl refused to coach or even speak to J.R. Smith, while playing him erratically.
Karl had his best player, Melo, demand a trade to another city. Since the trade, Karl has publicly bashed Melo on numerous occasions, and the two have not spoken. I speak to my former boss from 7 years ago, who I consider a mentor, on a regular basis.
Last season, Raymond Felton complained constantly in the press about coming off the bench.
This season, Andre Miller has complained publicly in the press about coming off the bench.
This season, Birdman was taken out of the rotation without being told or explained why or what he needed to improve on.
So go ahead, Fly, tell me why Karl is good at managing egos. Also, explain the six guard lineup while you are at it.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 8:47 AM MST reply actions
Half
of those scenarios are NBAers being spoiled IMO
Karl has culpablity in many cases (6 guard lineups and such), but the me first attitude is not his fault.
Release the Tebow!
Which ones? Specifics please.
The claim was that G.K. is good at managing NBA egos, there was no caveat for them being spoiled. The claim was actually that he was good at it in spite of them being spoiled.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
JR
Melo & Kmart are very hard to handle and are proving that in there stints w/ other teams
Andre & Raymond have the “I’m the man syndrome” and think they’re bigger then they are. Also has alot to do w/ $$ and future contracts
I would’ve benched bird long ago, IMO it wasn’t done fast enough w/ the way he’s been playing
I specifically see it w/ melo and the Knicks. Look what he & that team are w/o Karl so far, IMO w/o Karl the Nuggs would’ve looked alot like the Knicks are now, instead they were on the brink of contending.
Release the Tebow!
Really?
So you agreed with Karl when Kmart was pissed about the poor coaching job in the playoffs?
You agreed with Karl refusing to talk to J.R. Smith?
An inability to convince a 35 year old guard that reducing his minutes and coming off the bench is in his best interests is a sign of a good coach? I remember Popovich convincing one of his best players to come off the bench for years.
Benching Bird without telling him why or telling him ahead of time was a good idea?
All I’m asking for is a few examples of Karl managing egos. I haven’t seen any yet. You provided excuses for why he failed to manage them.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:13 AM MST up reply actions
Come on TIDBM
you don’t know what went on between Karl and JR or Kmart. I’m sure Karl talked to those guys 1,000,000 times w/o any change on their part. You’re really going to put Andres wanting to start on Karl, really? And how do you know what was said to Bird? The way you talk it’s like TIDBM is a coach in practice or a fly on the wall. I know Karl is all things bad to you, but I think you’re reaching on alot of things. You don’t know what you got untill it’s gone
Release the Tebow!
Everything I've said is based on things on the record
Karl said that he didn’t talk to or coach J.R. He said it, on the record. On Bird, he said in an interview that they didn’t talk about it ahead of time. And yes, I’m putting Andre wanting to start on Karl. Good coaches convince their players that what is best for the team is best for them. Look at Poppovich with Ginobli, or Jackson with Odom, or Dallas with Jason Terry. That’s his job, and he isn’t doing it.
I know what we’ve got, and it needs to be gone.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
Well
Miller is coming off the bench right? Hasn’t demanded a trade or refused to play. Seems to me Karl did convince him. I would be worried if a guy didn’t voice his opinion and want to start, seems like competitive nature to me.
Release the Tebow!
No
Miller knew what he was doing when he said that, just as Felton did last year. A good coach has control of what his players say to the press. There is a way to say what Felton and Miller said while making it clear you are a team player. Neither of them did that.
The sign of a good coach is now reduced to the point that any coach that gets players to go into the game when he tells them to is a good coach?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:49 AM MST up reply actions
Got to
look at some of these NBAers. Dudes don’t want to play D, don’t want to practice, want to team up w/ their buddies instead of trial by fire. The Nuggs have got alot of wins this year by playing team ball which is so fundamental, yet when it’s done in the NBA looks like an anomaly, alot of teams can’t hang cause it’s one pass an shoot mentality. So in that sense and what this age of players is like, I think Karl does a hell of a job challenging these primadonnas
Release the Tebow!
Appreciate the back and forth
We’ll agree to disagree. After Karl is gone from the team, my lasting impression will be of a lazy man sitting on his ass holding his head in his hands and doing nothing.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:07 AM MST up reply actions
I know what you mean
I spend a good deal of the game yelling at the TV “don’t just sit there” Karl
agree to disagree on other points though
Release the Tebow!
Andre & Raymond have the "I’m the man syndrome" and think they’re bigger then they are. Also has alot to do w/ $$ and future contracts
Straight-up misonformation. Miller never tries to be the man when the lead scorers are doing their job. NEVER.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I know Millers a good
team player. I think his complaint earlier had more to do w/ $$ and furture contracts. I was using as an example of not blaming Karl for a guy wanting to start
Release the Tebow!
Jesus Christ, why so confrontational?
I’m not taking sides, I like both of you the same as the other, but it sounds to me like it’s just an opinion, just basketball. Jeez.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 9:09 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Nothing personal
he said yesterday that he wanted to talk about how Karl was good at managing egos, but that he didn’t want to do it then. I’m just responding at a later time.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:14 AM MST up reply actions
Good posts Throw
Even though I don’t always agree with you, you bring out specific examples to support your opinion on GK. I think GK doesn’t manage egos well, he challenges them. As a result they play more team ball and defense, because even you would agree with me that for most NBA stars, defense is not exactly on the forefront of their minds. GK doesn’t coddle players such as JR Smith. Now communication is a great thing, but I don’t know how much was really attempted. There were a few stories about talks they had. GK is old school in that he wants to treat everyone the same and expects professionalism.
My examples: Alan Iverson.. The minute he left Denver, his career was finished. Yet he had a few good years here.
Melo: He has everything he wants in NY, is the man, etc. Losing like me at the horse track. He has a little less talent than his previous teams but not that much. GK challenged him and in Denver, Melo was a big winner.
Nene: He acts like a little kid and plays soft, but GK gets a lot out of him. He’s played in the wrong position his whole career. This is GK’s fault. I wouldn’t have.
KMart: Subjective view, but that guy’s an idiot. Swears at fans who pay his salary, was a malcontent during the playoffs. Why? GK was challenging him. Do you really think KMart knows more than GK about basketball? Have you heard GK coach during practices?
JR: What exactly has JR proven that he can do post GK? Uhh, silence. All his previous coaches hated his guts. Yes, he was challenged.
He challenged Kemp and Ray Allen to their best performances and greatest years. My biggest criticism of GK is that he doesn’t appear to be able to develop young players and in particular, bigs. Dave Krieger used to write that when the guys closest to the basket play the best, you win in the NBA. More rebounds, higher percentage shots, all of that. I agree. And it’s hard to argue the points about lack of inbound plays and set offenses. For me, that stuff bores me. GK is admired by other coaches around the league for the creativity of the flow offense. It ain’t perfect though and they have to figure out how to make it work during the playoffs. I just wish they would STICK TO IT and not resort to standing around in crunch time.
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 9:47 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate your point of view
and my main criticism of Karl are for his in game performances. I brought up the ego managing only because Fly did yesterday.
Regarding Iverson, he was done before he left Denver. Denver just figured it out before everyone else. Nothing to do with coaching, he was just out of gas.
I agree that Kmart and J.R. are headcases. So are Lamar Odom and Rasheed Wallace, and their teams won titles. Jackson leaves L.A. and Odom imiediately falls apart mentally.
I think blaming Melo for NY is an error. I’m as angry as anyone at Melo, and will admit to some schadenfreude, but you could exchange Melo for any player in the league and that team still wouldn’t be winning.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:58 AM MST up reply actions
Still
Melo is publicly questioning himself for playing Sticky Ball, which to me is on him. Don’t you think GK would have challenged him before this? I’m not angry at Melo BTW. He gave us, what, 7 good years? He got paid, moved on in free agency closer to his home and his passion. No biggie. NY and Melo will eventually win, I think. But both Melo and GK will long for their time together, as time goes on.
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 10:20 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think GK
would have challenged Melo… I think GK might let some of the vets or “superstars” do what they want
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
After the first season
the one where Karl came in midway through, Karl re-designed the offense into the “stickyball” offense.
Karl did sometimes challenge his players. I think his experiences, especially in Milwaukee, have left him afraid to be overly confrontational. I think it has lead to his passive agressive, not talk to the players directly, benching without talking about it, blame through media approach.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
and all those Evil George looks on the bench. lol
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
Lots of good points, one quibble
I think there was a story a couple of weeks ago, maybe in the Post, about Melo paying GK a visit before the Nugs-Knicks game.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
Didn't see that
The announcers said during the game they hadn’t spoken since the trade. Entirely possible that they spoke before or after the game.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:15 PM MST up reply actions
It was
before, Melo came into the Nuggs locker room and talked w/ Karl in his office
Release the Tebow!
yeah, that was it
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
millers biggest fault last nite was the missed free throws
that said, when you get no production from affalo or gallo at all, what do you do? it looked to me like lawson was not near full strength, or he would have the ball at end and tried for some penetration.
my biggest complaint the last couple of games has been karl’s play calling at the end of games. last nite it looked like miller wanted to pass inside on the final play of regulation, and no one came open. if it were me in those situations i would have brewer in the game and going to the rim. the team is settling for too many long jumpers, especially on days when they aren’t falling.
one thing nate is ignoring is that miller is playing so much because lawson has been hurt. it has been painfully obvious when neither miller nor lawson are on the court the team has played awful.
I don't really blame Dre
I like him. BUT…
Nuggets need to decide if they are a contender or not. If they are (and I think they are one piece away), they should do what it takes to get that piece and go for a title.
If not, trade the vets for picks and look forward to being a contender in the future.
Being in limbo kind of blows.
by Pusherman on Feb 1, 2012 9:00 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
interesting quotes from Joakim Noah
this his take on himself, and I think may apply to AAA very well
Yeah, no question, I thought about that," Noah said, according to the Chicago Tribune. "Sometimes you feel like because you’re given so much money you’re expected to do things. That’s not the right mentality to have as a player. I have to play my game. I have to have fun out there. If I don’t, I’m not the same player.
I feel my teammates were always behind me. But I knew as well as anyone how poorly I was playing. And not only wasn’t I playing well, but I was putting a lot of pressure on myself. I wasn’t playing loose out there. I was playing tight.
I hope AAA watched Tony Allen last night
That is who he needs to be.
Aaron Brooks
Maybe we should sign him when he comes back from China and run the 3 PG lineup in the clutch lol.
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:04 AM MST reply actions
and pry JJ Barea away too
4 is better than 3!
Entire roster
Just have all point guards on the roster
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:10 AM MST up reply actions
Spudd Webb
Bring him out of retirement too!
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:11 AM MST up reply actions
well, he'll be even more out of shape than Iverson
BUT, we can blame it on a shortened camp and condensed season
In that case, you have to get Boykins as well.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
AAAACCCCCCCCCCCCC!!! YESSS!!!!!
The Founder of the AC Fan Club!
Quitters People United Member # 3000
You know this is what Karl thinks about
during his alone time with his sock.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:55 AM MST up reply actions
Afflalo
Can we trade him because when I use the trade machine on ESPN.com it won’t let me use him?
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:08 AM MST reply actions
Is it still March 1st
Even with the lockout? I have no idea, just wondering lol.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 9:13 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Miller
If a tired and worn out Dre makes one of those two free throws he missed in the 4th quarter, the game is ours. I think his minutes should be cut fo sho. His conditioning looked really suspect to me at the end of the game, with most of his free throws too short. I think Nuggets probably lose the next 3 games, and a contributing factor to these upcoming loses will be a tired and worn down Dre. Nuggets will be lucky to make the playoffs this year, so we might as well focus on the youth and start playing Gallo, Moz, Stone, Faried and J Ham to see what we got.
Thanks
I’ve been reading how some of you guys are disappointed with Afflalo So I was trying to come up with a trade. I know you guys probably don’t want him but whatt about Chris Kaman. The Hornets want to get rid of him and we could use a veteran center.
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:13 AM MST reply actions
He's been brought up
Most people are against him, but I have reservations about our center position. Just my thought.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 9:15 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I am for him
…but, per my comment above, only if the team thinks its a contender. And there would have to be a long meeting with Karl before any trade with some assurance that he would actually play any player they trade for…assuming that player is not another PG. you don’t want to trade for another vet, only to have him rot on the bench.
I don't understand why people would be against him
a clear upgrade at our weakest position. Moz could still get good minutes coming off the bench.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 10:54 AM MST up reply actions
You have to make the salaries match in the NBA
And his $14 million means Denver will have to give up some of its depth.
If it were Bird and a second rounder, I’d do that in a heart beat. But it’s not.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
yeesh, I didn't realize he makes 14m
that’s crazy. probably can’t work.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
i've only watched Kaman play the Nuggets
so I don’t have a lot of insight on him, but he does not seem to be the gritty center that we’ve been looking for.
No to Kaman
He’s soft and a bit of a chucker. We need a veteran wing for crunch time…
Is Philly still looking to move Andre Igoudala?
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
Center position
We need a veteran center desperately
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:26 AM MST up reply actions
Howard
Who would you give up for him?
Nuggets All Day Everyday
by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:41 AM MST up reply actions
Well...
Trade Faried, Stone, Birdman, Miller, Mozgov, and a draftpick.
We start Howard, Nene, GAllo, Ty, AA
Bench would be KK, Al, Rudy, Hamilton, Brewer.
We keep some depth unlike the Knicks did when they traded for Melo. We keep all of our starters, dramatically improve at center. Defense improves, rebound rate improves. On the trade machine on ESPN Nuggets win 5+ more games if this deal goes through. We also dump some unnecessary depth because frankly a lot of these guys are gonna be glued to the bench come playoff time.
Orlando gets depth, new good players, and a pick. Basically they get the deal the Nuggets got and can rebuild.
Maybe some other players could be traded to make salaries match. And we should NOT take the Turk contract in any deals.
Who plays PG
when Ty is resting or injured? You have built a team with one PG.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:59 AM MST up reply actions
Rudyyy
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Rudy has done it a little
and teams have responded with a full court press. If he was the main backup 2, I think they’d have trouble getting across the time line. Lots of turnovers.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
J Stone
looks like he could be something… throw lil Ty out there and then a 6’7 PG after him haha
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
His trade puts Stone in Orlando
difficult to play him in Denver.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
that trade wouldn't happen anyways
lol i said Ruddy and Stone before I even looked at the trade he proposed
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
Orlando
can get Bynum and Gasol from LA and they can get Lopez from NJ… what in the hell makes you think that pacage will get you Dwight? Come on now lets use our thinking caps a bit shall we?
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
They probably wouldn't do it.
But I can dream right? Besides, we can offer a lot more young talent than anyone else. If LA was gonna do that trade with Pau and Bynum they probably would have done it already.
nope
they are waiting to see who Dwight puts on his list and who can afford him and go from there… if they can get away with only dealing one of the two then they will… trust me Denver will not touch the Dwight Howard race unless a headline comes out on ESPN reading Dwight Howard wants to pick up Snowboarding
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
If Howard is serious about winning there are far worse places to go than Denver.
I know he probably wants the big lights of LA or NY though.
he does
he said that to the public that he basically wants to be the center of attention in a big market like LA NY etc… just like what Melo wanted
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
Howard to Denver = Dreaming
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 10:38 AM MST up reply actions
hey, I like to fantasize I'm tomahawk dunking.
Angelina is applauding and squeeling and Pres Obama is begging me to attend a state dinner
My idea
Trade Afflalo, bird and a secound round pick to the Hornets for Kaman
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:20 AM MST reply actions
Way Way WAYYY
too much for Chris freakin Kamen
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I don't know
AAA’s the only asset there, and he may be a bad contract.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Kaman
He is too slow and lumbering for Karl’s running offense. The should focus on making roster room for Wilson Chandler after he comes back from China.
They wouldn't get him to run
They would get him to defend the paint, rebound and pick and pop in the half court set.
Let the guards run with Gallo and Al.
How about those moves from Al last night?
Behind the back, left hand reverse layup? Wow.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
Afflalo
I don’t want to pay $50 Million for him. I’m just trying to find a way to trade him
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:31 AM MST reply actions
Miller needs a slight reduction in minutes is all.
He’s still much more polished than Lawson, as he should be with his experience level. When Miller leaves for “greener pastures” at the end of this season, Lawson will finally have complete command of this team with Stone waiting in the wings. I like Miller’s endgame confidence, his floor leadership, and the ability to score when he knows the team needs it. Lawson does not seem to have yet figured out that to be “the man”, he HAS to take control, particularly at the end of games. He needs to call out his teammates, direct them on the floor, and be more vocal in general.
To me, Afflalo is far more of a concern. He’s regressed dramatically from last season, look at the numbers:
I think a 20-game sample is enough to say that the wheels have fallen off the AAA train.
His PER has dropped dramatically from 13.6 to 10.7. His TS% is down from .620 to .528. He collecting fewer rebounds, assisting less, turning the ball over more, with a much higher USG%. In other words, he’s taking bad shots on offense and turning the ball over a lot more when he isn’t attempting off balance fadeaways. He’s also getting blocked a ton and cannot seem to stay out of foul trouble. I really hope we didn’t make the wrong decision with that contract for Afflalo, but unless something changes in his game in the next ~15 or so games, we’re gonna be looking like suckers by the end of the season.
by Colin Neilson on Feb 1, 2012 9:32 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Nice post!
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"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
Andre would not pass to Ty at the end of the game to take his shot at winning the game.
Look at the replay, Ty was sprinting open, but Miller just kept the ball and then forced a shot (it was a decent look) but not one that you would think Miller makes
Amen brotha
Did no one see this coming though? At the beginning of each season for the past three years, it’s been: AAA looks GREAT this offseason (Not this past one but the previous two). But I always wondered how much he could really improve. He’s a good shooter off the pass when he’s open, and he’s a good defensive player. His ceiling always seemed low to me, and we completely overpaid for a dime-a-dozen player.
AAA looks like me playing YMCA ball
running around erratically and chucking up bad shots when i get the bal.
it’s horrific. he shouldn’t even be playing. at least brewer provides energy and fast break turnovers
Wow..
What a difference two days make. If the Nuggets win the game on Sunday, is the conversation still the same?
I will be the first one to admit that I’m not a huge George Karl fan. I am not convinced that he is an NBA elite coach despite the fact that his “numbers” indicate he is – at least in the regular season. His lineups, at the crucial times, absolutely befuddle me sometimes and his insistence on not giving high energy rookies (or in the case last night Gallo!!!!) some playing time, when perhaps energy is what the team needs, just doesn’t make sense. For the record, I HATE the 3guard lineups most nights and while I think Moz is a bit of a work in progress still, he gets damn near 0 time at the end of the game. Doesn’t compute. With that being said….
I’m pretty sure on Sunday everyone here, me included, was calling for Andre for nearly all of the 4th quarter. Instead, because of Ty’s injury, Rudy runs the point with Stone in there as the “2nd” guard. So in that case, should Andre be traded or not? Should he get the minutes or not?
To some degree, I think Karl’s hands are tied. Ty is still somewhat injured. AAA has not been playing well on either end of the court so he is forced to play a lineup that has some of that balance. Andre, IMO, is the only person that can bring that balance. Rudy is to erratic – ihs acquisition has been a very pleasant surprise however. Al – no.
Also, I hate to bring this up but I have to do my duty as an armchair analyst, just how much the news article where Andre complained about not starting, has played some role in this whole thing.
To me, I’m not going to freak out about two losses. Agreed. both should have been wins but at the end of the day, trading Andre just doesn’t make any sense. Trading AAA after 20 games doesn’t make any sense. How about we evaluate things after 40 or so games and go from there.
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I'm not going to disagree
but if that is the case, who gets the minutes? Assume Ty is already in the game. Not being a smart @$$ at all…asking a legit question. Who else would you like to see in there at this point?
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Julyan Stone dontcha know?
He’s ready for primetime.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Too much for Ty
I say don’t use the 2 PG lineup in the 4th. Use more of a traditional look especially when teams slow it down in the 4th and it becomes a half court game. Ty standing in the corner is no good. Miller starts the forth and let Ty finish the game.
If Ty got to play a starter's minutes then he would probably have allstar numbers.
He’s always been stuck with a vet PG that takes his minutes: Billups and Miller. Free TY!
sorry about the terrible terrible grammar in that next to last paragraph..
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Afflalo
I hope he gets it together because it’s looking like a waste of money right now.
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:36 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed....
There’s no doubt he’s playing terrible basketball but after 20 games everyone is ready to ship him off. I mean, that’s pretty harsh.
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New Orleans
If he doesn’t get it together by march we should trade him to new orleans
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:39 AM MST up reply actions
Only if NO has something to offer.
I would rather package him for a big name… since hes still a viable player – just slumping.
If we could snag Eric Gordon for AAA
and some other pieces, I’d do a fucking jig!
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Trading anyone at this point is dumb and an overreaction
But you can use these first 20 games as a bellweather for the remaining 46. Afflalo is not what we thought he would develop into. Ty is still playing way too timid and might never become the floor general we expect out of a starting PG. Karl still plays his shitty tinyball in crunch situations and we still don’t have any sort of lategame confidence.
Look at how many times this season alone we’ve had big leads at the end of games, 5 or more points, cannot step on the neck of the other team and shrink from the big shot. Gallinari isn’t that guy. Lawson isn’t that guy. Afflalo isn’t that guy. So that leaves Miller and Harrington, both those aging veterans who apparently can’t impart that late game wisdom and confidence the young guys desperately need.
by Colin Neilson on Feb 1, 2012 9:38 AM MST up reply actions
I’m not saying AAA is going to be an all-star….far from it…and I’m hoping with some hard work, it’ll get at least slightly better….
I completely agree agree with Karl-playing-the-sh*tty-tinyball….It drives me up a f*cking wall most often than not.
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With the lockout
40 games is well past the trade deadline. People are probably looking at that date.
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by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 9:41 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
AAA
I dont’t think he should be traded yet, but with so much depth and a possible Chandler coming; i would reduce his minutes significantly until he finds his groove again. Contracts should not dicatate playing time. Why karl inexplicably went with AAA at sf instead of Gallo is insanity. Gallo’s shot was off last night but his rebounding and defense was still vaslty superior to AAA’s. Fire Karl!
Murph
The 2 losses arent the end of the world, just of a couple of my nights. And, we’re 14 – 7, a nice start.
My concern is that by losing couple of games that we had nice late leads in, we are set up for a very tough February. My fear is that we drop to bottom of playoff seedings.
I dont know if I can post links to other blogs, but this is a good one.
Sorry in advance if I cannot.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2012/02/01/too-much-depth/comment-page-1/#comment-212181
Yeah, that's totally fine.
We’re chill with the RMC guys and they have good perspectives on the team!
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Big line-up
I would love to see a line-up of: Stone (6-7) pg or Dre at pg, Chandler (6-9), gallo (6-10) sf, nene (6-10) PF, and Moz (7-1) center. Use height to our advantage instead of disadvantage.
Center position
Is there anyone out there that we can get?
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:43 AM MST reply actions
Kaman is on the block
and Howard.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 9:45 AM MST up reply actions
Lakers wouldn't trade Bynum for Melo
They aren’t trading him for any of the guards we have.
Ya probably not but it wouldn't be just guard straight up ..
would be a package. I was just saying I would rather try to get a younger center, not an over the hill star.
Reports are that Bynums knees are gone
and that he can’t pass a physical. Like Stoudemire, I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
THIS
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
Just says if Nugs are serious, they will try and trade for Garnett
I think the pieces are AAA, Moz, Dre and a pick. Seems like way too much….and I like Garnett. Just not for that price.
That's
what I was wondering, how much to give up for him and his age? That seems like alot, but they’re not going to do it w/o getting something back
Release the Tebow!
Garnett
to Denver makes no sense. None at all
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Cool, here it is
Denver Nuggets
Current TR championship odds: 10 percent
Somehow Denver has become the clear winner of the Danilo Gallinari (formerly Carmelo Anthony) trade. By our projections, the Nuggets have the fifth-best championship odds in the NBA right now. If they can add some defense, they could become the Western Conference favorite.
Needs: A big man to pair with Nene, preferably one who can add a defensive presence. Timofey Mozgov looks good on posters, but the problem is he’s on the wrong end of them.
Assets: Rudy Fernandez and Arron Afflalo are quality starting shooting guards, and they’re young. Mozgov and Kosta Koufos are big and young, while Andre Miller adds a nice expiring contract. Denver even has an extra 2014 first-round draft pick it can deal.
The trade: Miller, Arron Afflalo and Mozgov to Boston for Kevin Garnett.
During the regular season, Garnett might not be able to run with the Nuggets, but once the playoffs roll around, his defense, rebounding and leadership would be a huge help. His diminishing offensive game wouldn’t be a problem for George Karl — it’s still far better than what Mozgov provides. Afflalo’s shooting would pair well with Rajon Rondo and would be missed in Colorado, but you can’t get one of the Big Three for free.
Anderson Varejao would provide a cheaper alternative if “The Big Ticket” proves too expensive.
Note: Afflalo can’t be traded until after March 1.
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
too much for Garnette
IMO
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:03 AM MST up reply actions
I'd do it
It’ll let Ty run the show and develop his game, Garnett gives us the nasty in the post and free us of Afflalo’s mistake of a contract extension
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
Please, no!
This thread isn’t a call for rentals. This team is being built extremely carefully by a sophisticated GM. It just needs some fine-tuning. Player development is the theme here, isn’t it?
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 1, 2012 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
I think KFH is right
but if massai could land KG for Moz and a 2017 1st rounder then sure. Pull the trigger… Even Moz and AAA but not all three of Dre, AAA and Moz
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
so a rental for a rental
i guess it depends on if Garnett is not only better than Dre but also for Moz and AAA… i don’t know about that… Maybe if Wilson Chandler signs here for AAA’s money and is down to start at the 2.
Ty/Stone
Chandler/Rudy
Gallo/Brewer
Garnett/ Big Al
Nene/Kouf
wow… that’s actually kind of scary.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Especially scary
is Stone at backup pg. He is far from ready for major minutes.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
meh
idk he might be alright… that starting lineup is freakish tho
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
I'd rather
sign Sam Cassel than AC
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Not gonna happen
I guarantee Masai is thinking along a different track, one of development of this team, though not over three or four years, but one or two.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
but now that I think about it KG could be that glue piece to winning something this year… AAA is known as that glue piece but KG is the superglue peice.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
garnett's game is
deteriorating by the month
I actually prefer the throwaway idea
of getting Andy V. He’s on a middle length team-friendly contract, and isn’t too old, but that team really should try to get somewhat worse so they can add a quality wing in the draft. They should definitely be listening to offers, and the Nuggets have a few pieces that would have to be appealing: Ill Will in an S + T as he still has some upside but won’t get the PT here, maybe Mozgov (replacing him with Andy V. is a nice upgrade but Cleveland gets to roll the dice with him and Tristan Thompson) and a pick?
i keep dancing on my own.
thank you
the more i think about this, the more i think having the brazilian front line would be awesome./ heres hoping cleveland decides it wants to tank
ya
Cleveland needs another high lottery pick. Add a couple parts from Denver in a trade plus someone like MKG (my favorite!) to Thompson and Kyrie and you might really have something. Nuggets interior defense would be terrifying with Nene’s post D and Varejao’s active help, add in Gallo and that’s an incredibly long frontcourt.
i keep dancing on my own.
this link
has the Nuggets trading for Garnett to become contenders? I mean Garnett could possibly have the same impact Perkins did with OKC last year but where would he play? Would he start at PF and Nene at Center?
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
meh
maybe… im iffy with it… i would love to see Nene on Perk and KG on Ibaka tho… I don’t think Ibaka would be doing his bull shit screaming and gloating after a block… KG would put him on his ass
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:09 AM MST up reply actions
Let's face it
Karl would play Garnett wayyyy more than Mozzy when it comes to playoff time
Atheist for Tim Tebow!
i wouldn't mind it
the more i think about it
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
yea your prob right
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
The already have Gallo
the SF/PF/PG.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:57 AM MST up reply actions
Nah, garnett is, like 6'11 right?
He’d be on the bench
Kaman
That’s why I have been mentioning him. We would have to mortgage the future for howard and there isn;t even a guarantee he would re-sign with us
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by TheMozgovCocktail on Feb 1, 2012 9:47 AM MST reply actions
This is a complaint about the head coach and his management of the team
I have no doubt this is being addressed above by the fabulous fans who are the Denver Stiffs, but I don’t have time to read these comments right now. Pressed for time, travel day ahead.
My burgeoning lack of confidence in Karl forced me to vote to trade Miller. Just as our illustrious head coach knew he had to play Felton too much post-trade in order to get the maximum effort out of him, well, you get where I’m going here. Miller is likely an order of magnitude more petulant than Felton could ever be. Karl is probably teetering on the high wire here, which too bad.
There is no doubt about his utility as an NBA point guard: the guy is a brilliant player and the very definition of a savvy veteran. If he could be managed as a true back-up, we wouldn’t be all twitterpated and Nate would not be writing this post. That’s on Karl.
Thanks for bringing this front-and-center, Nate. It’s likely to do as much good as the rest of our carping, eh? But it’s worth it to tell it like it is.
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Karl
needs to stop the 2 pg bullshit. AAA is not a SF. Al Harrington is not a PF. GK keeps running small and if he keeps running small with Dre getting 35 min a night the Nuggets will lose. Last night I blame the loss on Dre and GK. Karl not using Gallo in the 4th or OT was bind boggling… i didn’t understand it. Gk seems like a political coach and gets these bonds with certain players that can’t be broken a la AC, Dre etc. He needs to stop, use the Nuggets plethora of Bigs and freaking play a traditional rotation. I’m okay with big Al and PF but not AAA at the 3 and not Dre at the 2… Dre should get 25 min a night and that is it! Karl better pull his shit together and get of the Political train. If I was Massai I would address this to GK, tell him to fix it or he will either be fired or Dre will be traded but no more, for the love of God no more Dre, Ty and AAA at the same time.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 9:53 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
yeah, Gallo was having a bad night but
do all coachs “suspend” cold players. Thats how it felt, like he was on principal’s suspension
i don't get it
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:44 PM MST up reply actions
REALLY NOW
No knock on the way they are playing the two PG’s because they are playing well together and honestly this team needs it. The two players compliment each other well with DRE being the pure PG and one of very few in the NBA, and TY being the score first cat quick guard.
Now if winning isn’t what we are here for then don’t play them together, attempt to win with TY as your PG with no way to get those other guys involved on a consistant basis and this team will fall apart just as it has since DRE left the first time via trade.
No more 2 PG crap in the 4th Qtr..
I dont mind it as much in the 2nd qtr when its not yet a half court game
I disagree
I think AAA compliments Ty well because Ty slashes and drives while AAA floats and shoots. Rudy compliments Dre well because Dre hovers and passes while Rudy shoots or slashes. Make those two combos work, not Ty and Dre. That way you don’t have Dre guarding a 2 that blows past him every drive.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:05 AM MST up reply actions
How is your SuperPAC going?
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
My issue with Karl's coaching has always been he burns people out
It’s not a depth problem on the Nuggets. Last night, as I pointed in Nate’s game recap, the lineup of Harrington, Nene, AAA, Ty and Andre played what amounted to over 30 minutes (some close to 40) straight of real time (not game time, real time) action. The entire lineup was clearly gassed in the overtime.
He’s riding Dre, like a circus elephant. He’s going to burn out quickly.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Feb 1, 2012 10:05 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
GK did play Miller
25 straight MIN from 8:XX in the 3rd Q through overtime with no break. That is too many consistent minutes IMO.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Yep...and that amounts to just about 40 straight minutes of action in real time
That’s insane for a 35 year old back up point guard.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
damn!!!
so Miller played the last 25 minutes…no ownder he missed his free throws..GK sucks!
Clearly a founding member of the Oneders.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
Yeah could have played a part in those misses for sure
Miller’s usually money with his FT’s at the end of games. Unless he’s playing 25 continuous minutes that is.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I knew it was only a matter of time before someone would find a way to blame Karl for missed Fts as well
well done!
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There's no room for logic on this board
SHame on you.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
he's playing him so much
cuz Dre was bitching about starting and Mins… i think GK feels obligated to giving him minutes… like i said before it’s political and will end up killing this team.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
Or because he is playing well and Ty is hurt?
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he didn't play well
in the final 13 minutes of last nights game…. OT includedin those 13 min
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
This
absolute track record of burning out guys.
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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
this is a very legit criticism
I didn’t mind the lineup construction given what Memphis was running out there…but I did mind the lack of any subs to give a breather. I realize these guys are pros and playing half an hour of hoops is not that big of a deal, but really a bit of fresh legs there could have been a difference maker. That, or we make some shots, stop dumb turnovers, and get a damn rebound.
My take
Ok, we lost. Big deal.
What IS a big deal – is Karl’s apparent inability to recognize good/bad matchups during the course of the game. Especially in last night’s overtime.
What I saw last night was Nene getting abused by Gasol. He is not big enough to guard him, but Koufos did a pretty decent job because he has the height and weight to bang with him. Karl failed to recognize this, and left Nene in at center.
Afflalo, as much as I love his game, is killing us. We need JR back. While he’s a headcase, we need a 2 guard who can create his own shot – and Afflalo cannot. Perhaps we slide him to the bench in favor of Rudy and see what happens. But you CANNOT continue to play Afflalo at the 3, George. He can’t guard Rudy Gay. Gallo should have been in there, despite his poor shooting night. Stick with your starter.
Miller/Lawson – look, I understand Ty’s got a sore ankle, and Andre wants to be “the man” here – BUT – While I love Andre for taking the reigns and trying to win it (when no one else steps up) – he is not the option you want at the end of the game. Period.
I would like to see Karl stick with the best matchups – that’s what we pay him to do. Instead, he is too busy tinkering around with small ball.
Memphis is a good team, but we should have beaten them last night. Hell, against their length, there is NO reason that we didn’t insert a Koufos/Nene/Harrington/Afflalo/Ty lineup.
Can we please resign JR? Can we please trade Brewer/Miller/Anderson for a quality big and a backup PG?
Lineups should be: Lawson/?/Stone, Afflalo/JR/Rudy, Gallo/Chandler/Harrington, Nene/Harrington/Faried, ?/Mozgov/Koufos
Agree that AAA should have been in there
disagree that I want JR back.
And very much disagree that we should have had Nene guarding Gay down the stretch. Unless we wanted to give up even more wide open looks.
Not what I said...
I said play Gallo on Rudy. Harrington. Hell, Brewer.
NOT Afflalo. And certainly not Nene.
Can’t see why you wouldn’t want JR back…The big difference between he and Afflalo is that JR can create and penetrate, and Afflalo cannot. Afflalo has a limited offensive game, where JR has potential off the charts. We do not have anyone that can penetrate, except Lawson – and his size is sometimes an issue. If we need defense at the position we still have Brewer and hopefully Wilson Chandler soon.
I think JR may just grow up a little bit after his Chinese experience. I’ve been over there – working for the Warriors – and let me tell you, to commit for that period of time is a big deal, no matter how much they are paying you. It’s a much different style of life.
If I were running the show, and JR decided to play good soldier (and potentially our go-to-guy in the 4th), I’d trade Afflalo, Mozgov, Anderson, Miller, and 2 1sts (cause that’s what I think it would take) for Dwight Howard (resigned) and Jameer. Orlando wants established vets? check. Young players at skill positions? check. Draft picks and cap room? check
Dwight/Koufos, Nene/Harrington/Faried, Gallinari/Chandler/Brewer, JR/Rudy/Hamilton, Ty/Jameer/Stone
Championship team. Enough depth and scary lineups to match ANYONE in the league at any position, including Miami. And let’s hope Stone develops quickly, we need his size at the PG position.
If I were running the show, and JR decided to play good soldier (and potentially our go-to-guy in the 4th), I’d trade Afflalo, Mozgov, Anderson, Miller, and 2 1sts (cause that’s what I think it would take) for Dwight Howard (resigned) and Jameer
Thanks for the laugh!!! So, you’re getting Dwight Howard for that AND you’re going to acquire Jameer Nelson who can’t hold Miller’s jock to back up the point. Lol – deleusional fan base knows no bounds.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Quote from Karl after the game
After the game, Karl said “maybe I should have played Gallo a little more,” but explained it was a chance to give Arron Afflalo an opportunity to “close out the game.”
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_19864311
Really George?? Afflalo shot marginally better than Gallo…THAT was your reasoning?
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ugh
GK is a Fing idiot sometimes.
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
man now I am really pissed
there is never a good time to play nice and give a guy a chance to “close” out a game. seriously?
So for the next game, can Karl give Brewer a chance to close it out or maybe Karl can give Bridman a chacne to close it out…heck let’s just to rotate who gets a chance to close it out…WTF…
I trust Gallo more on offense to close it out than AAA…
seriously
its like What the F%&* George? Lets take this a little more serious… now if Denver misses out on a spot in the conference seeding he can blame this “experimental game” on AAA…. Tell ya what GK… experiment in practice with last second shots but not in FREAKING GAMES
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by NastyNessy71 on Feb 1, 2012 10:44 AM MST up reply actions
Also, he set up the last shot for Rudy
..and at the time he was 0-3. Finished 0-4.
If you are looking for a guy on the bench to make a shot, isn’t it your 6’10" SF with a nice stroke over a smaller guy who is struggling as well?
It didn’t lose them the game…but still, make Gallo the guy.
Just because Rudy ended up taking the last shot
Doesn’t mean the play was drawn up for him.
The first or second options could have been covered. There is only so many seconds to get the ball in.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
It was
Dre held the ball. Rudy was the only guy moving. I don’t even think Dre dribbled…he held the ball and waited for Rudy to round the corner. He was option #1.
Just a perfect example
of a coach allowing payroll to dictate lineups
How do you see that?
Gallo makes a lot more than AAA now.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
Not that I agree, but Gallo making $4.1M this season and AAA $7.5M ... next season it changes.
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yes
I was referring to their guaranteed contracts. Gallos current checks are smaller, but his deal is much bigger.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 2:20 PM MST up reply actions
Not trying to compare Gallo and AAA
Just saying if we hadn’t just paid AAA his contract, Karl wouldn’t be trying so hard to put him in the game.
Yeah this is dumb
He may of been struggling but you have to keep putting him in those endgame situations. You just paid the man big bucks to be that guy.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I think we are getting close
to George giving Andrew another interview. A couple of more games where the coach loses a game that they were leading, and we’ll be reading another Andrew interview with the coach.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
TRADE FOR GARNETT NOW
Since we are committed to Karl lets get a veteran big that he will play to close games. Trust me, Karl will have Garnett on the floor. Give Mozgov, Miller, Bird and a second rounder (orwhatever works) and take back Garnett w another year extension and the point guard out of Purdue.
We lose these games due to “on court veteran intelligence” down the stretch and no veteran bigs that Karl trusts playing. With Garnett you get both.
I'd rather not make the playoffs at all
Then give up developing Moz and giving up picks.
Just because Denver isn’t going to win a championship this year doesn’t mean the FO should get desperate.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Disagree
I think we have a real chance to win now w Garnett. What better teacher for our young guys then Garnett
Isn't this the crux of the argument?
Now or later.
Some teams are always in now mode…Lakers, Dallas, Celtics. Notice, they win quite a bit.
I think we have talked ourselves into a situation, where thee Nugs are always in next year mode. Perhaps that is the lot of a small market team in the NBA…unles you catch lightening in a bottle a la OKC or the Spurs.
But Garnett is not helping the Celtics win anymore
why would he help us now?
LOL
Is it knee jerk when you’ve been seeing the same problems for 7 years?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:17 PM MST up reply actions
LOL
playoffs are such an issue, especially a team with so much history prior to those years. LOL this team is so similar to the Karl teams of years past. LOL I am giving him more than 30 games with the team before declaring if it will also flame out in the playoffs the same way. LULZ LULZ LULZ
(I feel capitalized abbreviations add more flare)
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Same thing I was being told last year
when I said that they were playing like crap the last 15 games of the year and would get beat badly in the playoffs. The problems were visisble during the awesome 6 game win streak, and now they are coming home to roost. Since we have seen the same problem with Karl for years, I don’t see any reason to believe he will change now.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions
PURDUE POWER FORWARD
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:02 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I wasn't going to go there but YES
Take back the PPF also (if necessary)!
I don't think the problem is Andre Miller
So much as it is the complete disappearance of Arron Afflalo.
Miller is getting all these minutes because AAA is a no show for all intents and purposes.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
This is the biggest glaring weakness on the team
he has not been able to find his spot in the offense, and it seemingly is impacting his defensive effectiveness (which never should wane). I liked yesterday how he made a deliberate effort to get out and run and got 6 or so fast break points. Good idea to jump start himself. But he needs to follow that up with some halfcourt scoring. Its on him and Karl to get this figured out, because right now he is not earning minutes.
Dre is a Rollin Stone
Me thinks the Andre and Ty project has run its course. Steve Nash understands his team isn’t very good and looks as if he starting to realize his time for Championship is limited. With that and Andre feelings of not being a starter and Birds lack of production and contract. Steve Nash here in Denver can make a great acquisition. Denver needs a smart, clutch free throw shooter and a veteran that the officials give calls to on occasion. Not that the losses were in cause of the ref’s, but as we all know the Stern strings are alway a factor in games. Especially in the playoffs and this team is a contender. A little more seasoning and maturity and in game learning this team can grow.
In addition to that AAA needs to get in shape and start stepping up. Its starting to look like we overpaid and maybe a run for Ray Allen can help this team get over the top.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
whats the deal
Allen is closer and doesn’t need to dominate the ball. Can create his own shot and still has his legs. Garnett is gritty and a tuff SOB. But this team needs someone to instill confidence and guidance to the young guys. Rondo would not be the PG he is now without Allen and KG. That said KG doesn’t have the legs to play here.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
Here's the deal
Denver is a young team that could be good for a long time.
But after a few bad games, people are talking about giving up depth and draft picks to go for a championship run right now.
And I just don’t think it is worth it. I agree, Denver isn’t a contender this season, but I don’t want 2013 and 2014 thrown in the trash trading for a player with only a year or two of basketball left in their body.
No need to panic.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Yeah its not neurotic and frustrating
And even more puzzling a lot of people are blaming Miller for these issues when he’s the one guy with Al giving us the best bench in the NBA. The real problem is soft interior defense and some starters like Affailo and Gallo not showing up. I dont get it really.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Moving Young guys...
Andre doesn’t want to be here and has an expiring contract. Bird well he isn’t what he used to be and looks like his legs are gone. With the combination of both of their contracts it will equate to Nash’s. Nash also has an expiring contract. Allen also has an expiring contract but he is still in shape. None of our young guys are going anywhere.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
Hey
I’d be happy to get a hall-of-famer for Bird and Miller. But I don’t think Boston or Phoenix have a front office that is that stupid.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Andre doesn't want to a bench player
Andre expressed his displeasure with not starting. He has more in the tank and Steve Nash will be great for the young guys. AAA is a good piece to move for Allen. Both Phoenix and Boston want to get younger and we are in need of veteran leadership. Even though I love Andre’s game he doesn’t have the outside shot and late in games he becomes hinder by the defense, as with Ty.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
Then all we need to do
is trade Koufos and Hamilton for Bynum, Fernandez and Brewer for D. Wade, and we’ll be set!
KG, allen
add Pierce and Rondo. Not getting it done in Boston, why bring them here?
Why Not
This is the best year for Denver to win a championship. A combination of Allen and Nash can put this team over the top. The quarrel in the past with Allen is water under the bridge when it comes to the Trophy. It can work. They are both professionals!
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:02 AM MST up reply actions
This is by no means Denver's best chance year
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
Nash would be great here...
Miller , Hamilton, and a 1st rnder for Nash
Thats funny
Lets bring in Nash so he can dominate the ball even more limiting Lawson as a PG even more. Great logic there. 2 injury prone guys manning the point. Brilliant!
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Not to mention
Giving up last year’s first rounder and another for a player on the verge of retirement.
Hilarious!
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Its actually more bizarre than hillarious
Nash is probably the worst defensive guard in the NBA. He’s great on offense, but he dominates the ball completely. We wouldnt be better off.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Hey Buddy
in my best South Park Canadian voice.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not your buddy, guy!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I'm not your friend, buddy!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
I'm not your friend, guy!
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Yeah I forgot
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hey zeus, you're brilliant!
I can dream of bringing in Nash but it ain’t going to happen…so you can relax..
Nash is an upgrade to Miller and Hamilton will never play with Karl as coach. But like I said, it’s not going to happen
Oh yeah, brillant upgrade
Not as much of an upgrade actually when you consider he’s 2 years old, more injury prone, is no help on the glass, and dominates the ball more than Miller further stunting his growth. Isn’t the whole issue that the team should be ‘turned over’ to Lawson? And what about that 1st round pick you failed to mention.
Nash is not the answer here at this point.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I think our team has confidence issues
the reason Karl is over using Dre and Al is because they are the ONLY guys on this team with consistent confidence. Every other player has issues with staying aggressive and WANTING the ball late in the game. AAA, Ty, Gallo, Rudy, all these guys seem to play scared when they don’t have a good game going, while Al and Dre will take any shot a defense gives them while having the confidence that it’s going to go in every time. Our young guys need to work on that.
this
you could see it in the past couple games, guys can’t get rid of the ball fast enough. Dre is the only one willing to step up in crunch time. I think the Philly game may have hurt them, in that young guys are willing to let Dre “take over”
Release the Tebow!
Yes!
Ty especially. His comments about being happy to let Miller handle the ball seemed nice at the time, but now I see it as a sign of disinterest.
I want Ty to have the ball in his hands so he can create with speed. That’s the key to success for this team.
I know, he was gimpy last night. But….
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Yezzir
They need to step up, and trading for another aged veteran is only going to hinder their development. This is a team built for now AND the future. Let’s see what Mozzy can do by the end of the season before we trade him away for a an old guy we’ll have for the worst years of their career.
Kind of agree
Dre and Al definately have the most confidence. I think Gallo also has quite a bit. He was taking the ball right at the Clips the other night. Ty didn’t look confident last night at all. AAA has confidence…perhaps misplaced.
OUR COACH HAS CONFIDENCE ISSUES W/ OUR YOUNG PLAYERS
Our young players look pretty damn good to me!
Karl needs therapy!
Can we stop the trade AAA chatter?
I would hate to have some of you running my IRA. It’s typically not a good idea to sell at the lowest point. We know how good AAA can be, and we know he didn’t work out during the offseason to make sure he avoided injury (very disappointing). He is physically off and a bit mentally off as well. I don’t know if he will get back to last year’s form this season, but we also know he is typically a very hard worker and highly competitive, and I’d bet anything that if he continues to have a bad season, he will work his ass off this offseason and have a Harrington-like turnaround next year. You heard it here first.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 11:04 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I'm as up on AAA as anyone
But until he gets things turned around, I’m beginning to think he might have to be an awesome defensive stopper and spot-up shooter from the bench.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
that's fine
but trading him now would be a ridiculous panic move. But I’m not worried because Masai is smarter than that.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 11:08 AM MST up reply actions
Trading him now would be a mistake
You’re absolutely right about that. Unfortunately, while this is his lowest point, and he is going to get better, his ceiling is still extremely low for the money we’re paying him. He’s not nearly quick enough to creat his own shot or to drive consistently. All he can really offer on offense is hitting an open shot (which he is not doing). Trading him is not the answer because we will get nothing for him. At the very least, he needs to do what he did last year: defend and hit the open shot when his number is called.
Guys:
The problem with the Nuggets is not talent. It’s confidence, execution and coaching.
All this trade talk is ridiculous.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Trade talk is never ridiculous if your team get better
Getting Garnett for Moz, Miller and Bird (and the GS second) would be a gift for Denver. No way we devolpoe every young player on our bench.
Then I blame Karl for letting Moz rot on the bench (and partially the refs for calling everything on Moz)
But Mozgov is clearly a player capable of developing. I’d rather get rid of Karl and have a coach that wants to develop our players, then trade for an old player Karl trust enough to play.
For me it's a case of
Just not having the right players. It’s not that I want to get rid of anyone in particular but we still have holes in this roster. I think AAA would be helpful if he gets back to form, but I think we could survive with Rudy for offense and Brewer for defense. Dre has been doing well but we have Ty and he needs the reins. What we don’t have is a consistent center rotation that can give us 48 minutes a game. People argue that Kaman is just a decent vet but the thing is someone like him or Varejao can give you 35-40+ consistent mpg without always being at risk of cold streaks or fouling out. Just having someone who you can count on to be out there improves the team a lot, even if he’s not super talented.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:13 AM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Really, this loss is on Nate
for Marlowing the Nuggets during the preview. As soon as I saw that, I knew they would lose the game. N8 might need to be benched on previews for a while!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 11:08 AM MST reply actions
Haha, I N to the 8 might have to bench myself.
Sit the next few plays out …
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
just joking around
but that preview was some bad juju.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 2:22 PM MST up reply actions
Garnett might also rub off on Nene in a good way
Did I mention that we should trade for Garnett ASAP?
My Solution
Birdman, I love you, but you have lost a step, off to the bench with you. It is inconceivable to me that Faried is not getting minutes the way his has played. He should be getting 10 minutes a game guaranteed. Also, as Karl has reduced his rotation to 8 guys, we have lost our energy spark. Faried is your spark. AAA plays when we play a 2 that needs to be stopped. Otherwise you ride the hot hand. Most of our guys have been very streaky, so you ride who is hot. Rudy, Big Al, Gallo, are all very streaky. Kudos to Nene, he is finally play aggressive, I have seen him progress big time this year.
by Ryan Mordecai on Feb 1, 2012 11:15 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
New Guy Alert
Hey guys, long time listener, first time caller… I had to sign up to voice my opinion on AAA… I thought/still think this was a horrible signing. He is a one dimentional player, who needs to play with an exceptional one on one player (ie Melo) so he can simply camp at the wing. Absolutely pissed that we wasted all the $ on him, when we could’ve given it to Ill-Will (who can and will be a better player than AAA, and could’ve easily played alongside Gallo at the 2). I know it’s borderline blasphemy to call it Masai around these parts, but we need to hold him accountable when he makes such a bad move that will handcuff us for years to come… Tariq Abdul Wahad anyone?
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 11:17 AM MST reply actions
Great comparison
He does have a same type of game as Tariq Abdul Wahad. AAA is slow footed and doesn’t have any explosion to get by guys. its been 20 games and AAA hasn’t shown that his shot is consistent. His D is also lacking. I can wait and see if the groin issue is hindering his performance but he still looks like he is the same player he was last year to me.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
I think we have to take a possible injury into account.
We have a prime example in Big Al right before our eyes. Not saying this is the case, but it could be the reason.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:26 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Yes the groin maybe the issue
So he needs to sit and let other guys play. Rudy and Brewer need to step it up. Rudy is starting to piss me off with his off balance shots. Lets see what happens when he is healthy but I really think he is a good piece to move to help the team.
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:32 AM MST up reply actions
Chandler > Rudy/AAA
Too bad, we’ll only realized that once he’s lightin’ up the league with another team.
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Chandler doesn't want to be here
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
by Viruth Cheng on Feb 1, 2012 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
everyone seems to assume this
has he ever actually said it?
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 1, 2012 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
I think he is being punished too much for the POs
Big picture…the guy is young with lots of talent.
Welcome to the posting side of Denver Stiffs!
Glad to have your thoughts here!
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
Not giving up on Trip yet
Something’s obviously wrong, but that is a guy with good character, by most accounts. I am pulling for him. I think he’s our Big Shot guy.
"When I played, this is how I liked to play," Karl said. "It’s a combination of North Carolina, Phoenix Suns, Doug Moe. There is a commitment to running all the time."
Smith's mistakes throughout the series have bothered Karl. "And then, of course the one with eight seconds to go, from 50 feet," Karl said. "I just love the dignity of the game being insulted right in front of me."
by Plea for Intelligence on Feb 1, 2012 11:18 AM MST reply actions
Triple A = Trip
I heard the players call him that or something.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:20 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
OK
I like this nickname.
Carry on with your regularly scheduled panicking.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Trading for Garnett would be like when the Avs got Roy
I can’t believe you all cannot see this. Rid Moz, Bird and Dre and by playoff time the entire team is much better cause Karl had to play our younger guys.
Trade Dre!
Get Garnett!
And kick Karl’s (AC and Dre’s Crutch) and FORCE GEORGE TO COACH OUR YOUNG GUYS!
Garnett
Is probably the only Celtic I’d be interested in.
Just understand, my reluctance is that the cost would be too high.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
brillaint fly..
trade for a old guy who is about to retire…hmm sounds familiar?
Karl is like the scene in "Money Ball"
Pitt traded they guys that were the managers crutch so HE HAD TO PLAY THE GUYS THAT MANAGMENT WANTED
Trust me! Masai is gonna reach the same conclusion soon!
I have expressed the moneyball comparison before
Though if Masai reached that conclusion, wouldn’t it be simpler to fire Karl and bring in Sloan?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Then all we'd need
is 2 HOF players for Sloan to rock his best coaching…
Yes! Trading for Garnett in 2012 is just like the Avs trading for one of the best goalies ever still in his prime!!!!
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
ROY was considered past his prime when they sent him to the AVS
Turned our he had gas in the tank. Garnett will play three more years. Not a perfect comparison but I expect the same results
Roy played for 9 more years when he was traded
Garnett has 3 left at most
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
No. We got in his prime for years to come.
Garnett is old. Basketball old is way different than hockey old. His best years have been over for seasons.
Damn this whole scapegoat post bothers me
The sharks came to feast and completely missed the point of what ails us. Ughhhh
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
We all have our own opinions of "what ails us."
I agree that this is a controversial post but most of us posting here are regulars to DS and those aren’t are still Nuggets fans. I think we can be trusted to have our own opinions.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:28 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
those who aren't*
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 11:29 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
It's fine, really
But there is a reason most casual sports fans aren’t GMs.
A two-game losing streak isn’t any fun. But it doesn’t mean the roster should be blown up.
Not saying I’m not angry and frustrated with the team. Denver gave up two consecutive double-digit leads in the fourth quarter. That’s unacceptable.
I’m pretty high on Karl, but I sure am pissed off at him right now. More than I am AAA’s underperforming, more than I am about Nene playing soft and more than I am about Miller missing clutch free throws.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Yeah, that's fine
But this whole post bothers me, because instead of actually appreciating what we have in Miller keeping us in the game and actually SHOWING UP, the panic button gets pushed and all of a sudden, it becomes a question of whether Miller should be the go-to guy. Anybody who’s ever followed Miller knows he doesn’t become the go-to guy unless option 1,2 or 3 aren’t doing their jobs. So why the feeding frenzy? Lawson was had his minutes restricted, and Miller was the best player on the court. Why shouldn’t he play under those auspices?
Why aren’t we debating how much the front court got PWNED continously in the paint or how Lawson got blocked from behind on the fast break in OT, or how Gallo couldnt hit a shot to save his life. All played much more contributing factors in this loss and others.
Miller will get limited as much as the starting lineup will dictate. In the meantime, enjoy your top 12 NBA PG in the backup role off the bench. You want Miller limited, then get the starters to do their job. If we trade Miller, then who backs up the point? Is Lawson enough of a pure PG to get it done for 38 MIn/game. I have my doubts.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I mean, how would 'truning over the team' really have helped us the last 2 games?
Lawson was out vs. the Clippers, and Lawson was meh yesterday. How is it that after a 6 game win streak – including 5 straight on the road – and everything’s all good, it becomes a question of whether Miller should defer to Lawson. How exactly would that have helped anything before things suddenly became “not all good”?
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
It's you who has missed the point of Nate's post
Those who are concerned about how Miller’s presence affects Ty and the team aren’t saying we would have won these last two games if the team was fully in Ty’s hands. We’re advocating player development and rotations that make sense, and we’re doing it because we can see a bigger picture than winning every single game.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 2, 2012 8:18 PM MST up reply actions
Trade AAA?
Hah… as it if it were so easy!? We’re stuck with Tariq Abdul Afflalo for years to come… Tariq’s stats the year we got him from Orlando and extended him to that fat deal.. 12 ppg 43% fg%… hmmm, eerily similar
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 AM MST reply actions
Welcome to the site
some good posts. I think it is too early to call anything on AAA, and even if he doesn’t improve, his contract isn’t that bad. Like Harrington last year, he’s making just above NBA average. This is nothing like giving a 7 year max deal and three first rounders for Captain Injury.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the welcome
Tiddy… is it, right? I guess I’ve never really been sold on what exactly it is AAA does that makes him worth $8 mill plus… And I tend to feel that GMs around the league agree. If you remember, prior to AAA signing the deal w/the Nugs, most if not all of the other teams interested in him were “contenders.” And everything coming out was, they wanted him for the MLE… which fits right in with his role as a defensive stopper in my book… I just would’ve rather given that $ to Chandler I guess, as I feel he has a much higher ceiling, and has shown enough on the defensive end to cover other SGs in the league… If we are somehow miraculously able to resign Will, I’d be in favor of him starting the 2.
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 12:14 PM MST up reply actions
I agree that AAA will never be a star
and luckily he makes $7.6 million, so he is under the $8. AAA did seem to be stepping up his game after the Melo trade last season. Remember the game winner at the buzzer that he hit? Agree that his play hasn’t been as good this season, just think he’ll round into form at some point.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
i feel like the game winner
is what everyone alludes to when they say AAA is worth his contract. I know its a case of “what have you done for me lately?” but he has completely underperformed this year and has shown very little signs of life. im not advocating trading him and think he can snap out of this post contract slump, but its frustrating to say the least
I like our personnel and would not want to see a trade...
Karl has shown that he has neither the judgement or ability to take this team to the upper echelon.
The lineup thing is ridiculous, WE have the ability to create mismatches but he refuses. I don’t mind “small ball” on occasion, in short spurts; but why can’t we see a big lineup once in a while? Or how about a defensive lineup?
Karl is always talking about defense leading to offense, but for some reason benches Gallo just because of an off night on the offense end… Dont worry about all of the other aspects of basketball where he was performing. It may be just me, but I still take my chances with Gallo for the game winning shot even on an off night. He was as (in)effective as AAA and Rudy shooting and was providing better defense and rebounding. To not have him out there is insane.
I would rather see players benched for lack of defensive effort than an off offensive night. It drives me crazy to see the Nuggets big men not hedge out on the guard on the pick and roll. Or to see double teaming the post up man only to leave open three point shooters. I think for all of Karls preaching about defense, he is a poor defensive coach.
And… The rookie not playing thing drives me crazy. Good coaches put the best players on the floor regardless of their tenure in the league. I remember the posts that were disappointed that we missed on D. Blair, but I honestly don’t believe that he would have had the chance to play under Karl as a rookie. Pop was a good enough coach to realize this kid needed to be on the floor, regardless of the fact that he was a rookie, that he was not a high pick or that his offensive game was limited. Hmmmmm, go figure, a high energy rebounding machine could actually contribute to a team – I wonder where we could find one of those?
I am a lifelong fan, so I will be here through thick or thin, but i am facing up to the truth that no matter what players we have this team will never win a championship with George Karl at the helm.
I totally agree.
Gallo only shot 10 times, and was getting to the line effectively. He is absolutely not the type of player that needs to get his shots. Beyond that, I’d still let him shoot open shots throughout the rest of the game. At the very least, he alters the opposing defense whenever he’s on the floor. He’s the only one who can creat his own shot. You always keep your best player on the floor when it counts.
Sorta OT
I was looking at the 2009 draft the other day and I realized that we did really well with our first round pick (that we acquired from Minny but iirc we were the ones who actually chose the draftee) in Ty and completely whiffed on our 2nd round pick. I know we ended up selling that pick for money but we missed a bunch of guys, names like Blair, Thornton, Jerebko, Young, Budinger off the top of my head.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Feb 1, 2012 12:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Budinger always makes me think of Butters.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
So, I've had some time to think about why I'm not worried about Dre or AAA in the long run
Thoughts in no particular order
- Dre is good in his role just as it is. He doesn’t panic in stress time. He will pass the ball if he finds someone open
- Gallo was all off track last night so not the worst thing to not play for one game.
- Lawson will learn from Dre and learn to be a better passer.
- I think the panic about AAA is because of the shortened season. He’s always been a slow starter. If he’s gonna suck, I prefer he suck now not during the run to the playoffs and in the playoffs.
- The whole team needs to not let crap officiating mess with their heads. Right now Dre seems to be the only one that doesn’t let it affect his game.
- Believe it or not, I’m okay with Rudy now too.
I’ll be back with more thoughts later.
That’s all I’ve got for now
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Flopper-Lover
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Oh I'm not a flopper lover. But good try.
But he’s been okay.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
sure sure
Next you’ll be talking about how much you like Chris Paul.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
You are a thin ice mister
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
If you notice, I said I'm okay with Rudy
didn’t say I “like” him.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
The lady doth protest too much
Rudy and Cat sitting in a tree….
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
You're so mature
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Dre is so great for this team but not Garnett
Seriously Dre is the new AC. The newest crutch to limp into a first round loss.
Dre is the new Chauncey
minus 3pt shooting.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Meh. He hit some and missed some
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
hit some & miss some is not "clutch" IMO
when CB is on the line, I feel as though it’s already in the bag. With Dre, I’m hoping he’ll get them both, but thinking there’s a 20% chance he won’t.
MINUS ANY VOCAL FLOOR COACHING or LEADERSHIP
There is no other CB. You will get another refresher course tomorrow
Is that so?
Please explain this. He’s very vocal on the floor – the court is the only place he talks.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?
Dre is very vocal, and a floor leader.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Because for the Nuggets to get Andre Miller they would have to trade...oh right...nothing
the whole point is that he would cost too much for a young, developing team to trade for him.
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
I'm sorry
last I checked Ty was way above his career averages this year, oh he didn’t do well against the Clippers! Oh right, he didn’t play, oh but yesterday!! Oh could be that he was still coming off an injury. Miller will be gone after this year, having Ty learn under him and be able to get whatever Miller brings this year and then having cap space is a better choice IMO. And if I get the jist of this post it’s sort of: “Miller is playing TOO WELL!!! TRADE HIM!!!”. Nate, have you been hit by DS kneejerk syndrome?
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
my one concern
is that in Dre’s now famous announcement that he wanted to be a starter, he said that Ty had already been mentored by Chauncey, that it was Ty’s team now, and there was nothing he had to offer in terms of mentorship. If this is true, i think Ty’s not only being hampered by playing w/ a PG that’s playing well and a lot of minutes, but he’s not learning out of the experience (outside of what he observes). All that being said, I think we should keep Dre for the time being.
Everyone wants to be a starter
he hasn’t shown any let down on the court. I don’t like the idea of Ty going from 24mpg to 40+ right away, it’s up to 35 now, next year he takes over as sole PG leader. It’s all a progression, he is still quite young
"Weltmeister!!" Zwei mal: 2010-2011...und weiter gehts
yes
but i would love for him to pick up some of the passing skills that Dre has. maybe that stuff can’t be taught at that level; maybe you have it or you don’t. Dre is a completely different PG than CB; if Ty can learn from both, that would be very good.
Haha, I'm not advocating to trade Miller AT ALL.
I’m just looking at the team, looking at Miller’s playing time, and wondering if it’s a great idea to depend on him so much. If the Nuggets have a legit shot to win the title with Miller’s heavy minutes, let’s go for it. If Miller is going to wear down, that worries me.
I’m concerned that the young players for the Nuggets are not stepping up, whether it be that they are hurt, on the bench (Gallo and AAA at times), or just not taking control on the court.
I know players have to step up when they are on the floor and prove their merit, but I’m curious as to whether it’s a good idea to ride a 36 year-old player this season with his future up in the air. Just asking questions and seeing what you all think, love the talk on Denver Stiffs.
Also, by playing the two point guards, it hinders what Karl can do late in games. The Nuggets three mainstays in the 4th quarter have been: Lawson, Miller and Nene. Two open spots and never have they gone to a guy over 6’10’’ …
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
And the late quarter lineups seem to be helping the Nuggets get killed on second chance points …
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
There are ups and downs to this season so far
While frustrating as all holy hell, GK is who he is and I doubt losses will change anything. We can all complain and moan about the lack of use of our bigs (and rightfully so), but the only thing I see changing this, is a horrendous losing streak, which is very possible with our upcoming schedule. February is absolutely brutal. We play the clippers twice, the lakers, the blazzers twice, the rockets, the mavs twice, the apcers, the thunder, the spurs, and the wolves. the only “easy” games are against the warriors and the suns. That’s it.
I predicted that we would go 13-4 in January. We went 12-5 due to poor execution in the 4th quarter of the last two games. I think we will be very lucky to have a .500 month of February. I figured we would get a 6-9 month. Hopefully they will pull out some more wins that I thought.The win% of our opponents is .581. That is hard. The silver lining is that March and April are substantially easier and should provide some good momentum into the playoffs.
That being said, February is a great opportunity for this team to figure out it’s identity. This team is young and hungry and I’m sure they don’t take losing games that they should have and could have won lightly. I would actually say that some of these losses now to get into their heads that this doesn’t work is better than having it happen in the playoffs a la last year.
We have seen the potential of this team (the Miami game, the early games this year against Utah and Dallas, the 6 game winning streak on the road). They have the talent and the chemistry to go into every single game expecting to win. This is not just GK’s fault. This is the fault of the players as well for not showing up to play and being scared of the challenge of closing games. We can all argue back and forth about trades (I for one thing that we should trade for varejao, but that’s just me) but the fact of the matter is, we need to place our trust in Masai Ujiri. He’s done an amazing job so far and I will trust in his vision for this team, even if it means some frustration now.
Moz is getting better. Ty and Gallo, while playing inconsistently, are still playing better. Dre will do what Dre does. Al is having a great year. Nene is trying to go into Beast Mode more often, but will probably always be Nene. My one concern is our SG play. AAA has been awful and Rudy, inconsistent. Hopefully they will snap out of it. Benching AAA and telling him to stop trying so hard (a la the Joaquim Noah snippet somewhere above) will probably get him back to the AAA we signed.
Be patient. This season is going to be weird enough as it is. We’re going to have rough patches. We’ll also have patches and have already seen patches of the potential greatness of this team. Dig in everyone because this is going to be a rough month. Go Nuggets
by swmrkev on Feb 1, 2012 12:02 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
also
we are still 4th in Hollinger’s power ratings and 1st by quite a margin for western conference teams. Two tough losses against tough opponents, while frustrating for the lack of closing, is a lot better than say losing to the Wizards…
Or New Orleans......
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I think are people are looking at the tough month ahead
Starting out 0-2 after two winnable games is tough to swallow when there are tougher games ahead.
If the Nugs had a championship for every time the Nugs rated high ni Hollinger’s computer they would be the Lakers.
What concerns
me is the trend of shrinking in crunch time. You can see the guys running from the ball/moment. Hastings always preaching “you can’t be afraid of the ball”
Release the Tebow!
Miami was a fluke
karl got an early technical (something that Pop and Sloan do 15 times a year), and the team responded. That was Karl’s one game he actually decided to get thrown out. The official actually gave hima second tech and rescinded it! The team responded.
This team needs an vocal on floor leader or a more vocal coach. Since we all know Karl stays I say we get Garnett
I just don't see Garnett as a good fit
in any way with the Nuggets.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
id pass on garnett
we need to focus on player development or trade for someone much younger. and i dont think Miami was a fluke. I think they are capable of playing to that level consistently but the focus has to be there
yeah, I vote NO NO NO on Garnett
Certainly wouldn’t want to part with anything of any value for him. Way too old, too injury-prone. There’s almost no future there.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 12:34 PM MST up reply actions
Miller's playing time
I’ve waded through all of these posts and I despair of the reading and comprehension ability of about 80% of you. He’s never “bitched about not starting” for the Nuggets or complained about his minutes. The issue right now is not the 29-30 minutes a game he has been averaging. It’s about the average 38 minutes a game in the last 7 that Karl has had him playing. Go back before the last 7 games and you’ll see that his minutes were more in the range of 25 to 31. Keep in mind also that the point guard position is the very most demanding of any on the team. Andre is in there at the end because he’s a great game manager and can facilitate better than anyone else on the team. Karl just needs to manage Andre’s minutes better so he’s not dog tired at the end. He’s right to trust him but no one is as effective if he’s pooped. And it’s not his “conditioning” it’s the drain of tough, competitive games night after night. None of you could do it! The Nuggets would be lucky to extend Dre and give Ty some time to assert himself. Ty seems like a really nice kid but he’s not the complete point guard yet. I’m absolutely amazed that there’s so much criticism of a player who has the will to win, plays his heart out every night, and plays solely to make others better. Denver would be lost without him. George just has to keep his minutes within reason.
by silverraven on Feb 1, 2012 12:13 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think many people are criticizing Miller
Just Karl’s usage of him – as you alluded to
We realize this
Your unfounded hatred of Miller is obvious. I am in complete 100% disagreement with all of your positions on the issue. Your bias is clouding your judgement.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Exactly and rec
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I think some of you are missing Nate's point
Miller is being run into the ground by Karl. It’s up to Ty to take this and run with it, but to play a 35 year old back up point guard 40 straight real time minutes and 25 straight game time minutes is asinine.
Also, his comment about playing AAA instead of Gallo is frustrating. So he wanted AAA to get some closing minutes? Someone who he played almost the entire fourth quarter and all through overtime (who’s coming off a groin injury) is better to leave in than your best free throw shooter and someone who could help with rebounding and perimeter defense on Gay.
Makes no sense.
Nuggets' commin'...best recognize (Fernandez/Manimal...oop of the year)
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why do you think Dre walks up the court on every possession?
he’s gotta be thinking, “it’s gonna be a long night. silly kids, running themselves ragged…”
Thanks for reiterating these points!
Are people reading for comprehension here?! Our DS writers NT and JM are making a lot of sense!
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 2, 2012 8:24 PM MST up reply actions
I think Miller has hampered Ty since he made his "started" statement
Right there is the beginning of the problem: You simply can’t comprehend what you read. You mean to say that it bothers you that Miller would like to start for another team than come off the bench? Because that’s what he said. Most people here still cling to the belief that he was saying he should start over Ty. He most definitely DID NOT SAY THAT. The interesting thing about Chauncy is that he greatly admires Andre and says that he’s thought for the last 7 or 8 years that Dre was the most underrated PG in the league.
I don't think Miller said that
and it has absolutely nothing to do with the salient points made in Nate’s post. This conversation is NOT about what Miller wants. It’s about player development and substitution patterns.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Feb 2, 2012 8:27 PM MST up reply actions
Deja vu
There used to be a guy who posted on the BlazersEdge site in Portland – Tom in Hawaii- who swore that we needed to get rid of Miller because he felt he was responsible for all of the injuries that were occuring on the Blazer team. His posts were an adventure and just as inane as yours.
whoa, wait are you saying
that Dre’s not only hampering Ty’s growth, but he’s actually the one that led to AAA’s injured groin, Rudy’s achilles, and Ty’s ankle? Now that you mention it, the timing is right ….
That's clearly what he is saying
He’s intentionally injuring players. Bastard!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 12:56 PM MST up reply actions
Ty's growth...
is hampered only by his petuitary gland… dude has to lead the league in blocked breakaway layups.
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
Wait wait wait
i know what we could do! Trade Carrol, Bird, Ham, 15 picks and a copy of Titanic for Lebron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh… then they can come off the bench and boom we have outselves a team…. what do ya guys think?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
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Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
That might work
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
worth a call to Riley
isn’t it?
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Gary_Gomer
Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
I'd probably throw in
a ham sandwich just to sweeten the deal a little. Make sure he takes it.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
yea your right
shit we’ll even let Fat Al make it.. i bet no one can make a better ham sandwich than fat Al
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Gary_Gomer
Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
copy of Titanic and Bosh
are equally as soft and can lead to unexpected floppage and eye rolling. i guess it’s fair.
excellent observation
that’s why it was the movie of choice
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
@Gary_Gomer
Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
Tom in Hawaii.
I think Ty’s responsible for Ty’s growth and he seems plenty intelligent to glean from Andre the many things that he still needs to learn from passing to pace to that calm demeanor. As to pace, Doug Collins spoke of that after the Sixers game: “‘Andre’ plays at a pace that is a great, great pace. Because he’s deceptively quick but he’s never going fast. He’s always got a great pace to his game”. As far as floor leadership is concerned CB is great but Andre takes a backseat to no one in that department. He’s always talking, always instructing. For a guy who doesn’t talk much away from the court he’s very vocal on it.
someone mentioned this above and i think it fits in with AAA
He got a raise but his numbers were down, and now Joakim Noah is saying that the pressure of a big contract was affecting his play.
“Yeah, no question, I thought about that,” Noah said, according to the Chicago Tribune. “Sometimes you feel like because you’re given so much money you’re expected to do things. That’s not the right mentality to have as a player. I have to play my game. I have to have fun out there. If I don’t, I’m not the same player.”
Noah signed a five-year, $60 million extension in October 2010 that kicked in this season. After averaging 11.7 points and 10.4 rebounds per game last season, Noah has slipped to 8.5 points and 9.3 rebounds this year.
But Noah has picked up his game of late. He has five straight double-doubles, and had 14 points, 13 rebounds and seven assists Monday against the Washington Wizards.
Worries started to mount early in the season when Noah averaged 6.7 points and 8.0 rebounds after 15 games. He had four games in that stretch in which he had only four rebounds. More importantly, Noah didn’t seem to be playing with the passion that is such a big part of his game.
“I’ve always been a player who reacts well to criticism and doubters,” Noah said, according to the Tribune. "I feel my teammates were always behind me. But I knew as well as anyone how poorly I was playing. And not only wasn’t I playing well, but I was putting a lot of pressure on myself. I wasn’t playing loose out there. I was playing tight.
“In the beginning of the year, I was overthinking a lot. I was going through a lot of things personally. I feel a lot more comfortable now. I have to stop overthinking and just play.”
Noah would not tell the newspaper what the personal issues were. But he wouldn’t blame poor conditioning because of the lockout.
“It wasn’t a question of being out of shape, he said, according to the Tribune. “I might be in a little better game shape now. But I came to camp in great shape.”
His mental conditioning appears to be catching up to his physical. Noah said he is now playing with an edge.
“You have to be that way because this basketball thing is such an emotional roller-coaster,” Noah said, according to the Tribune. “One day you’re feeling amazing because you played well and your team won. The next night, you lose and you play like crap. It’s definitely a man’s league. And you always have to put yourself in question. But I’m feeling a lot more confident now.”
It's the yips. I'm telling you he has a case of the yips.
And I think that is why GK had him in the game. To get over that bump. I’m quite serious
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
Arron
looked disinterested IMO last night especially late in the game while he was in. That has me worried a bit. I really hope he’s not the type of guy to just go thru the motions now that he has made his coin. I really don’t think he’s like that tho.
MOZGOD Enthusiast Member 71
Original Thugget Loyalists Member 71
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Home of the Denver United Nations Nuggets
yep
this is exactly what I’ve noticed as well… and as much as I’ve never been much of a fan of the PLAYER-AAA, I’ve always respected the GUY-AA, but his dimenor lately is causing me to wonder about the GUY…
by UKnowULovedVanQwik on Feb 1, 2012 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
WOW!!!!
Haven’t read the whole thread, but it sure looks kie there is a lot of Monday morning QB-ing going on here.
1st, had Gallo been in the game late and continued to shoot the way he did then everyone would be bitchin’ about GK not benching him.
2nd, while I do think Lawson needs to take the reigns of the team for Miller, he does have to TAKE them! They can’t be just given. Trust me, as fans you don’t want it any other way. Not to mention that Lawson has been playing(or not playing) with a bad ankle. I would guess that his conditioning is nowhere near where he or coach Karl want it to be right now. That, and the fact that Miller has been playing out of his mind, have got to be reasons for Lawson taking a secondary role lately. Remember, these guys are having to learn and get conditioned during games because of lack of practice time (ie AAA).
The whole Miller/Lawson dynamic could become a problem, but I think we are a long way from that.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 1, 2012 1:25 PM MST reply actions
Gallo was already limiting his shots
If he HAD kept shooting the rock and missing, then I think the fans would have blamed Gallo. You can’t blame a coach for keeping the best player on the floor when it counts.
That may be true but......
I’ve noticed GK taking heat where it’s not warranted. Yeah his rotations are mind-boggling sometimes, but I think it’s part of the reason we won a few games that we should have lost. Last night’s loss was because of turnovers and missed free throws, plain and simple.
Something else I haven’t seen anyone talk about is how the game was officiated. Not that it was the reason for the loss, but they were not calling anything unless it was obvious. I think a game called like that limits Ty’s effectiveness and has him settling for jumpers (not his strong suit) instead of taking it to the cup. Miller was better suited for that type of game as the floor general.
by Larry Cunningham on Feb 1, 2012 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
Monday morning QB-ing
what we do best.
"There's no way I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team' ... I was trying to beat those guys." -Michael Jordan
by ParkHillNative on Feb 1, 2012 2:01 PM MST up reply actions
But today is Wednesday
and this is basketball.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 2:16 PM MST up reply actions
Wednesday morning point-guarding
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I didn't see the roll call yesterday
How much did you win by?
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Feb 1, 2012 2:24 PM MST up reply actions
best write up so far timmons (in my time here anyway)
kudos.
by Patrick KB. Nugget on Feb 1, 2012 1:53 PM MST reply actions
Thanks, sure has the people here talking…
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Methinks there was a method, man.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I never have a method or agenda or whatever. I’m a Nuggets junkie and have been thinking about Miller quite a bit, since the post I wrote saying his arrival here was a “godsend” …
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I was joking man.
But it was a good way to drive traffic ;)
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
I hear ya! I don’t try to drive traffic, couldn’t think less about that as a writer. I actually typically do not even like my stuff to be read by people! haha
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Could of fooled me
Because of this article, I’m convinced 75% of the DS community is insane. Our backup PG has provided us a 17.4 PER plus at least 1 or 2 extra wins vs. normal backup so far, and many want to trade Miller for a sack of basketballs. It’s kneejerk insanity at its finest, and again totally glosses over the team’s real issues (lack of #1 go-to option late, rebounding/inside defense issues etc).
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
We should be attempting to resign Miller at this point
Not trade him! This would solidify the bench and backup PG role for the next 2 years if we could convince him to stay in a gradually reduced role.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I wouldn’t mind seeing him re-signed as that would help provide stability. Miller lives here and would likely stay at Karl loves his game. I’d feel better knowing we’re not leaning on a guy who may not be with the team next year. Reduced role for sure and hopefully a reduced salary too.
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But that's the thing Nate: It's not about 'leaning' on Miller
The younger players (Nene, Gallo, Lawson) will ALWAYS get first dibs to get ‘leaned’ on. It’s not like Miller is imposing his will on the team, and that’s the thing some people don’t get. Miller only becomes the 3rd or 4th de facto go-to man when other options arent working. And if those options aren’t working, it means our young players aren’t getting it done.
If Miller was imposing his will irrespective of the young players having a good game, its a different conversation. But that never happens so the conversation is either irrelevant or becomes irrelevant if the young players are going well. I mean, even despite all that happened yesterday, Miller took 13 shots in an OT game. That is NOT the sign someone is taking over.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I don’t like to nitpick specific plays as I know more comes into play than one thing, but Miller not passing to Lawson and instead going for the game winning shot himself was him imposing his will a bit. Miller is usually money from the spot where he took the shot, but it looked like the play was designed to get Lawson the shot and it wasn’t executed in that fashion.
Also, in watching Miller for years and years, I’ve noticed he likes to take over for certain stretches on offense. That’s not a bad thing as taking some pressure off teammates and making defenses think about your ability to distribute and score is key, but I wouldn’t say Miller is shy about getting his offense going. (This paragraph really has nothing to do with anything)
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He's not shy about shooting
But he’s measured about when to do it. You’re superstar can’t take 30 shots/game; someone has to step-up in a 48 MIN game. For his career, Miller’s averaging 12.1 shots/game and 11.1 this year. That’s not that many shots for a 46% career shooter (80.7% FT).
As a long time observer, you’ll also note that often Miller has games where he takes 6, 7, 8 shots when everyone is going good, and a typical stat line for that game might be: 4-7, 10 PTS, 12 AST, 4 REB.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
since there is a lot negativity on this thread
this is amusing
UGH
makes me even more upset that Faried isn’t playing… I wonder if Melvin ever talks to Karl about Faried… Faried needs some run!
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I agree
I want Faried play more because the inside of our soft defense and rebounding are the real problems of the team. He may be 6’8 but he has a great wingspan and is obviously a great rebounder. If we rebound better and play better interior D we win by 10 points – that simple. We need a beast on the board basically.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
my trade idea
rudy, dre, and moz to cleveland for varejao and sessions.
why cleveland does it – it gets rid of a large contract from varejao and continues their youth movement. dre’s contract will expire and with jameson coming off the books, they will have some cap space to play with as well as a center with an upside in Moz and a slasher guard to pair with kyrie irving in rudy
why denver does it – clears PT for ty to truly become the teams #1 point guard and gets a legit back up in sessions (who is averaging 9 pts, 5 assists and 3 rebounds as a backup). it also clears out some excess depth that seems to be an issue at the moment in allowing rudy to leave and bringing in the exact scrappy rebounding machine that needs to be paired with nene on a great contract.
doubtful that it would happen but i for one would love to see it
Not too bad
Varejao’s value has to be at an all time high right now (20/20 last night). I didn’t realize he is 29. I wonder if he and Nene are buds?
Hard to imagine that some other team
wouldn’t top that deal to get Varejao, but of course many teams would have topped the Lakers Pau offer so you never know. Love Miller and like Rudy/Moz, but i’d be a fan of this deal.
Ok guys...here is the clip I was referring to from Evans and Klatt this morning
talking about George Karl’s reaction to Benjamin Hochman’s question. Follow the link and go to the Hour 4 podcast (should be right there on the page)…fast forward to the 8:27 mark and you will hear the clip and the discussion about it. Well worth a listen.
http://www.1043thefan.com/EvansandKlatt.aspx
Nuggets' commin'...best recognize (Fernandez/Manimal...oop of the year)
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Great article Nate
and excellent commentary, on both sides of the Karl fence.
I’ll be succinct, unless I cant.
There is a balance that has to be struck between going with your hot hands and going with your best players, players who have the most height, speed, quickness, skills etc.
The problem with Karl’s stressing hot hands is that it leads to subjective, erratic substitution patterns and confuses players as to what their roles are. Roles should be consistent and rational.
Why, how, should Gallo and Ty assert themselves as the teams go to’s if a few bad quarters changes who gets to do what?
Does anyone honestly believe that we should have a revolving roster of crunch time players? That would be disorienting for our players. Even schoolyard games are more consistent than that. Might as well draw names out of a hat, raffle style.
Depth does not mean that everyone is equal, that only what happened last quarter counts. Our players are not equals.
Ty is fastest and possible star, Gallo is craftiest and possible star, Moz is strongest, tallest Center, AAA is not in game shape, Miller is smartest but alas oldest, Al’s a wonderful shooter but does little else.
Karl has to come to believe in what his players are and play them consistently, assigning relevant roles to players.
NY’s D’Antoni is taking heat in NY but really he has nothing to work with. I remember MD playing Nash so many minutes each quarter and making sure that Nash rested early 4th quarter and finish game. Even when it seemed he should change minutes pattern, MD was disciplined enough to play Nash in mostly predesignated moniutes.
Karl should take a page out of MD’s book.
I think the team needs another top PG
lawson has shown that he wears himself out after too many back to backs. i think that his style of play doesn’t leave too much fuel in reserve usually on the 2nd or 3rd night. I really don’t see anyone available we can get better than Miller to take the wheel on those nights.
Good article, better thread !
The two G positions total 96 mpg. GK sometimes plays Rudy or AAA at 3, so let’s say that they, Ty and Dre have to divvy up about 100 minutes:
Ty – 30
Dre-22
AAA- 26
Rudy- 22
Depending on who’s hot, this can vary, but I agree with sgiustra, there does need to be some clarity in the roles. I haven’t given up on GK yet, and this year is going better than expected, but I want to see the rotation settle into a rhythm that doesn’t overload Al and Dre – and lets the young guys develop.
by slader on Feb 2, 2012 8:26 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
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