Three second rule (offensive)

by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 6:32 PM MST

Since we have a little down time between games I thought I'd revisit something that came up in one of the threads. Do you think you know the (offensive) three second rule? Do you complain about how seldom it is called? When I was a high school referee it was always amusing to see the new guys coming in and how they would talk about how they were going to enforce the three second rule and show the veterans how it should be done. Then when they learn what the rule actually is they wind up calling it just like the veterans do. Spectators at HS games used to yell at me about three seconds during a game but they weren't even close to having a legitimate complaint. I checked the NBA rules and it's pretty much the same as for HS and college. See if you can tell me what the three second rule is without looking it up. I think you'd be amazed at how many get it wrong. This is just for fun so please be honest about not looking it up.

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I'll give it a crack

Is it when the player “positions” both of his feet and does not move his feet while in the painted area for 3 seconds or longer?

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by CloudBurst on Jan 23, 2012 7:12 PM MST reply actions

Well, maybe a tiny part of it.

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by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 9:23 PM MST up reply actions

I have no idea

I always assumed it was one of those things like Supreme Court Justices and pornography, you know “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it” and used at the discretion of referees to halt the momentum of the team they don’t want to win. Kidding.

But only kind of. It does seem like one of those things that everyone does, like speeding, that is only randomly enforced.

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by Fly Agaric on Jan 23, 2012 7:28 PM MST reply actions 1 recs

It's a lot more well defined than that

by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 9:24 PM MST up reply actions

I am going to go with ...

When you enter the paint, without the ball, and do not get at least one foot out within three seconds.
(Although I think you have to get both feet out).

When I was at the Nuggets vs. Jazz game, Nene kept yelling at the ref when Al Jefferson had the ball in the post and had a toe in the paint … Nene was screaming to the officials, pointing at Jeff’s toe and saying THREE seconds!

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by Nate Timmons on Jan 23, 2012 7:53 PM MST reply actions

Yeah, you have to get both feet out, but again that's a tiny part of it.

by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 9:24 PM MST up reply actions

Being in the paint (not having the ball) for more than 3 seconds

When I played in a league, I always had a timer going off in my head.

If I remembered right, BOTH feet had to be out of the paint

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by CombatChuk on Jan 23, 2012 8:49 PM MST reply actions

It doesn't matter if YOU have the ball or not.

Yes, you have to get both feet out.

by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 9:25 PM MST up reply actions

Try this:

I can think of a realistic scenario where in the NBA a player could be in the lane for 11 seconds and it would be legal. I can come up with unrealistic scenarios where it would be legal for him to be in the lane indefinitely.

by Thursty on Jan 23, 2012 9:27 PM MST reply actions

Well

I thought the rule was he had to get both feet out of the lane within three seconds of entering it, ot shoot the ball within three seconds. I cheated with the google. Thanks for teaching me something.

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by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jan 23, 2012 11:02 PM MST up reply actions

Ok, it's time for the ANSWER!!!!!!!!!

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by Nate Timmons on Jan 24, 2012 10:06 AM MST reply actions

We're getting Allen Iverson back?

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by SDcat09 on Jan 24, 2012 12:51 PM MST up reply actions

No! God! NO!

by Russscot on Jan 24, 2012 1:02 PM MST up reply actions

I want to see him and Lawson in the backcourt together. No, really. For like one game.

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by SDcat09 on Jan 24, 2012 1:07 PM MST up reply actions

hahaha I hope not!

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by Nate Timmons on Jan 24, 2012 2:45 PM MST up reply actions

OK, here it is just because Nate demanded it:

The rule is that a player may not be touching the area or in the area (an airborn player is considered to be touching the floor from the point he jumped off) we know as the lane, paint, etc. for more than 3 seconds while their team has control of the ball in the forecourt. So my example about 11 seconds would be that a player can be in the lane for the entire 8 seconds if their team takes that long to get it out of the backcourt, plus 3 seconds after that for a total of 11 seconds. Now of course you have to deal with what constitutes team control and when it ends. It starts in the expected way with a throw in, steal, dribble, intercepted pass, etc. just about how you would think it would but control doesn’t end until the ball goes out of bounds, the other team gains control or a shot is attempted. So a loose ball due to a team fumbling doesn’t constitute the end of team control just like a pass between players or a dribble does not end team control. Notice also that when a throw in starts the team does not have team control in the front court (out of bounds is not in the front court even if they are on their own baseline) so the 3 second count doesn’t start until the ball is actually thrown in. One of the keys is that team control ends when a shot is attempted, so Moses Malone can keep missing and rebounding his own shot all day long in there without comitting a 3 second violation. As soon as one of his teammates takes a shot and the ball leaves his hand, that ends the 3 second count too. The rule also says that allowance shall be made for a player who is attempting to get out of the lane to avoid a 3 second. That part is left to judgement.

So the point is that the 3 second count doesn’t start or stop in the way that many people think it does. One caveat here would be in rec league play. I wouldn’t count on a rec league ref to know the rule very well either so I wouldn’t count on the way they call it. I know I’ve seen them screw up the call many times. Most HS, College and even NBA officials call it when it should be called and don’t when it shouldn’t.

by Thursty on Jan 24, 2012 9:09 PM MST up reply actions

But if you run out bounds does that constitute leaving the key?

by Frontrange on Jan 24, 2012 10:19 PM MST up reply actions

In HS and College yes

But if I read the NBA rule correctly it is no in the NBA; if you mean the out-of-bounds area that is the key extended. I think the NBA rule says 4 feet out of bounds.

by Thursty on Jan 25, 2012 6:26 AM MST up reply actions

Very interesting ...

So, if Nene is in the key for 2 seconds and Andre Miller shoots the ball … Nene can stay in the lane and go back to 0 seconds … once the Nuggets gain possession on an offensive rebound, the three seconds on Nene begins again. So he could be in there for 5 seconds, but it would be two different counts … 2 seconds, ’Dre miss, 3 seconds on Nuggs possession on an offensive board. Right? Pretty cool.

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by Nate Timmons on Jan 25, 2012 10:51 AM MST up reply actions

Right.

by Thursty on Jan 25, 2012 4:52 PM MST up reply actions

Thanks for the thorough explanation

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by Artimus Mangilord on Jan 26, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions

I've learned a ton from this blog

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by Artimus Mangilord on Jan 26, 2012 12:42 PM MST up reply actions

Ball has to be in the front court . . and in play, and offense must have possession

Player must be have both feet out of the key before the fourth second count.

by Frontrange on Jan 24, 2012 2:29 PM MST reply actions

There is either an unofficial or official rule though

about if a player is in the motion of shooting getting the benefit of the doubt. Which is why you sometimes see a call away from the ball right after a pass.

by Frontrange on Jan 24, 2012 2:31 PM MST up reply actions

See above

The call that you see right after a pass has to do with if that player had shot it instead of passing then the 3 second count would end. A lot of big guys get caught in there because they thought their teammate would shoot and end the 3 second count when instead they passed it and the 3 second count continues.

by Thursty on Jan 24, 2012 9:12 PM MST up reply actions

Closer than most! See above.

by Thursty on Jan 24, 2012 9:10 PM MST up reply actions

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