Cloudy Notion: Polar Bear Dilemma
No, this is not a discussion on what is known as global warming, but merely a discussion I think many in Nugget Nation are torn on. We have two big, white, stiff centers on the roster, and one of them should be the starting center.
This position is obviously our main weakness this season. However there are two guys here who have the potential to be really good centers in this league. They are the scratch-off tickets of the Denver Nuggets, and they are Timofey Mozgov and Kostas Koufos.
Timofey MOZGOD!
Timofey Mozgov- PER 36: 10.2 PPG - 8.8 RPG - 49.1 FG% - Ht: 7'1 Wt: 250 lbs
You can't fault Mozgov for getting his minutes to see whether or not he is really starting center quality, he's averaging 16.6 minutes a game. What we have seen from him however are things that you expect from big and slow stiffs. One is that he has been what we thought he has been, in that he is big, clogs the lane, and is a body to put on opposing centers. He was burned constantly against a rusty Andrew Bynum earlier this season and when Kostas came in to fill the 4 spot for Nene during his minor injury we had seen Kostas simply out-perform Timofey Mozgov. So when Nene came back from injury there were many in the Denver Stiffs community raising their torches for Mozgov to be benched. Then all of a sudden, when all hope was perished for the 7'1'' machine from Russia, the Heat came to town. He put up 12 points and 8 rebounds in 24 minutes of playing time and simply scored at will against the Heat front court.
You have a choice, Nugget fan. The Red ball, or the Blue ball?
Kostas Koufos- PER 36: 13.4 PPG - 12.3 RPG - 68.1 FG% - Ht: 7'0 Wt: 265 lbs
Look out Kyle Orton, there is a new neck beard in town! Looking at just their PER 36 stats, we can see that Kostas Koufos, despite only being in nine games this season and only averaging 10.1 minutes per game on those nine occasions has been superior to Mozgov in stats. Of course PER 36 stats dilute themselves the more a player clocks in during a game due to stamina and random elements during a game, but if we were to imagine Kosta and his stats to dilute a bit and he played 20 minutes a game, they would still be pretty damn impressive. His last impact role however was during the Hornets game we won. He put in 8 points, and 5 rebounds in 17 minutes of work. Still I don't think that the thought of injecting Kostas into the starting lineup has left some of the more thoughtful Nuggets faithful. The Greek project also is only 22 years old and has shown a lot more potential than the 25 year old Mozgov. So going by that, putting Kostas in for experience might pay more dividends down the road simply because there is more to grow.
What it really boils down to is, who brings more intangibles? Well first off, there are things we look for in centers not designed for scoring, which we will look at right now.
1. Blocking Out
Dennis Rodman (Kenneth Faried take note) was the best rebounder of the modern era. I don't think he got more than three inches off the floor on most of those boards. Everybody wants to sky for boards nowadays. This is one of the little disciplines that has fallen by the wayside. You know who is usually hardest to rebound against on the playground? Pound-for-pound it's the women, because usually women with enough confidence to come out and mix it up with the guys have played organized ball somewhere, and that means they learned to block out. The guys may be bigger and stronger and jump higher, but it doesn't matter when she's throwing the body into you the right way. (I've seen more weekend warriors reduced to passive perimeter observers that way. Quite a blow to the old ego...) Someday one of these kids is going to figure out there's about 20 rebounds a game and the attending multi-million dollar contract to be had out there simply by putting your body in the right place when the ball goes up. How do you think Kevin Love gets so many rebounds?
Going back and re-watching the games, I found that in the limited times I saw of Kosta, was that he boxed out the opposing center like 80% of the time and did a solid job at it. Mozgov on the other hand was too close to the opposing center when the opposing center had the ball at the top of the key. I'd say he clocked in about 50% of boxing out the opposing center. Teams tend to want the opposing center to come and man up on their center when he is at the top of the key with the ball waiting for guards to cut to the hoop, this allows more space for the guard if he makes his cut correctly; because with the opposing center not defending the paint, it allows for less chances of a shot block and more chances of an easy lay in.
So Kostas wins this one. Kosta-1 Mozgov- 0
2. Setting/Using Screens
With the pick and roll such a staple in NBA offenses, it's horrendous how poorly many players run the play! Big guys don't stand in strong, either offering a token presence or setting hard but then rolling for their own shot before the guard gets by. And guards often don't come anywhere near the screener off the dribble. Utah prospered for more than a decade largely off of this one set with Malone and Stockton. And that was with everybody and their uncle knowing what they were going to run! Part of it was talent, but I also heard that Jerry Sloan used to make his guys run the play over and over, jumping down their throats if the pick was slow and soft or the guard didn't brush the big guy on his way by. This is where guys like Mozgov and Kostas can really help your offense even if they're not volume scorers themselves.
Mozgov is a very sloppy screener, this is why George Karl does not set that many screens with him in, simply because he sets too soon and positions for too short of time. Kostas on the other end (he set two screens this year) was positioned for the right amount of time during the screenings, which allowed for I believe Lawson it was to have more spread on the dribble over. There is too little sample size in their screening abilities to make an accurate assessment, but I'd say Kostas appears to know how to screen better than Mozgov.
Kosta-2 Mozgov-0
3. Drawing Charges
The point here is not so much forcing the turnover, though that is nice. If a guy draws charges it means one of two things: he's either helping out quickly and decisively in the halfcourt defensive set (you seldom draw charges on your own man) or he's hustling his butt back in transition. You need both of those to make a defensive scheme work. It also shows that a player is aware of more than just his own assignment and has a good sense of what's happening on the floor.
Mozgov has drawn a few charges this year, which showcases that he has a bit of basketball I.Q for a center, Kosta on the other hand seems to be more occupied on positioning for rebounding, which isn't a bad thing at all, but he hasn't showcased that he can draw charges and is unaware of the situations during a set-play. I think this is the one thing from Mozgov I've been impressed with this year.
Mozgov- 1 Kosta-2
Culinary
Ok, this has nothing to do with basketball, but I'm hungry and I've never eaten a Russian dish nor a Greek dish in my life ... even though I'm willing to try. If anyone can convince me which culinary is better, I will swing the favor towards Mozgov or Kosta. Russia and Greek have been in diplomatic relations for over 160 years, for those who want to know a random fact.
Overall though, I believe Kosta should be starting, and don't deny it because it is the truth.
What do you guys think?
Tim, why are we on the court? Remember George Karl's curfew?
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
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curious what GK sees in Mozgov
ever since they both came over last year, I just felt that Koufos had a better feel of the game than Mozgov, not to mention that Mozgov looks uncoordinated pretty often. If Moz were playing like he did in Miami more often (of if he were given more minutes to do so), then I could probably be more excited about Moz starting over Kouf. As it stands though, I do feel that Kouf is a better player. All that being said, GK does not play either that much, so it’s a bit moot.
Greek food is way better
Mind, I’ve not had a lot of Russian food, but my GF when I lived in Canada was Urkranian and Russia (and an American from New Jersey) and she was really into making borscht and stuff like that. It wasn’t bad, but it’s telling that I’ve never looked for it since.
Plus, notice how skinny Russians seem to be? All ballerinas and fashion models? That is telling. The food is no good.
But Greek food is Mediterranean and we all know the Mediterranean diet is the healthiest diet ever. So. That’s that.
A week ago I was lobbying hard for K2 to be the starting center. Now that Timofey is more confident on the offensive end and pulling down more rebounds than I can count on one hand, I’m beginning to come around on the athletic Russian.
I don’t think it matter who starts. I just think we can all agree that it is criminal that the pair aren’t getting at least 30 minutes a night between the two of them.
K2 got a double-double the one night Karl trusted him with some serious playing time. Moz got the Nuggets out of a second quarter funk when he played at the end of the second.
It’s just boggling to me and many of you that these two sit as much as they do.
I’m going to write a sad song about it.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
by Fly Agaric on Jan 18, 2012 11:04 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
OK
Gonna be totally cheeky / silly. But I like where it is going in my head.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
Don't forget Moz going 3-3 to start the third quarter against the Jazz, bringing Denver close then being BENCHED ALL NIGHT!
I would continue to start Moz and play him 23+ minutes a night. And I’d bench Birdman (when not at Pepsi Center) and play Koufos 15+ minutes a night too.
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by Nate Timmons on Jan 18, 2012 2:48 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
But I'll take vodka over ouzo any day
Yep. 30 minutes/night between the 2 of them seems like an obvious piece of the rotation.
Happy to have both
I personally am happy to have both. I wish we could sign some extended contracts with both and have some giants for a long while. Mozgov has the possibility of a nice long range shot and and has a wider body, maybe that is what Karl sees in him. Koufos reminds me of a younger birdman. He has a huge upside with his age, energy and heart. Maybe Karl is just riding out a rotation to get a feel for the team. The first few weeks it seemed so mixed up. I guess a short pre season and 10 games in don’t really give a coach a chance to evaluate where he is going.
I would love to see less bird and even as good as big Al has been, maybe just a few minutes for kufos and faried. Even just a couple minutes for each to close out the 1st quarter would be worth it. Faried really intrigues me, I want to see him. I hate to break a persons spirits before he has a chance to shine. I think his energy can be a game changer but not when he gets so little time in a blow out.
All in all the rotation seems a little better now, maybe Karl will do some experimenting as the year goes on and injuries happen. But seeing Karl over the years, he will probably ride his horses until they are too exhausted to run.
I think we have such a good deep team there is room for all, like tonight, a back to back on the road. Why ride the starters from last night so hard, why not give some of the others a chance to get involved.
Anyway I am so glad it is basketball season once again and the Nuggest are off to a pretty good start. It is nice to see MeLow off to a 6-7 start, over their where the grass is greener. I look forward to Saturdays game. Go Nuggets!!!
by Nuggets on Jan 18, 2012 12:44 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Great thoughts and very well stated!
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Jan 18, 2012 2:52 PM MST up reply actions
Kouf vs Moz
Moz is capable of better plays but Koufas is smarter and doesnt make the dumb plays that Moz does.
As for what Karl sees in Moz, neither Moz nor Kouf has looked all that impressive. Heck anything they do well we clap like seals who dont expect anything from either one.
But IMO what Karl sees is potential from Moz that he doesnt see from Koufas. I agree. Moz looks bigger, stronger, faster than Koufas. He seems to have a natural shooting motion.
But I cant assert that Moz has played better than Kouf this season. I do think he will be much better next season.
So far though, Moz’s progress has been painful and slow.
Greek food wins for sure
as for who I’d want to hang out with, I voted Kosta….at least he would be able to have a conversation without a translator. Personally, I don’t think it matters who starts but they both need to get minutes. I don’t understand how Karl can give Moz a starting nod day in and day out, but refuses to play Koufos any significant minutes(barring injury).
As Ben Hochman noted on my podcast (ColoradoSportsGuys.com), Moz has been working hard on speaking English. They had an in-game feature last Sunday asking, “Ashton Kutcher or Charlie Sheen” …
Moz was on video saying in pretty damn good English, “Ashton because my wife likes him!” Somebody else had the right answer, “Neither.”
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Jan 18, 2012 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
that's good to hear
not the Ashton Kutcher thing but the english thing. It will make him a LOT more comfortable on the court I’m sure.
why mozgov
1. silky smooth jump shot
2. Bigger than koufos
3. rub it in the knicks face that we can develop him
4. under contract next year
Wow! Really close debate.
I like both guys, but gotta give the nod to Moz to start. I think he matches up against starting centers better, but I think they should both be seeing a little more floor time – especially Kouf.
I am pleasantly surprised with both of their shots – especially that 8-10 footer.
I think the correct answer is:
NULL VOTE
Karl isn’t gonna play either one. Nene at power forward! Sucker! Joke’s on him!
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?
You're correct
although with Kosta starting last night we did get into that early hole. I think the lineup that killed the 76ers was Nene-Harrington-Gallo-AAA-Miller.
I do not understand why Faried is not getting more playing time, he is a 4 year college player, those don’t come around Denver too often.
"I do not threaten, I merely state facts"
Denverstiffs- home of the most bipolar fan base on the internet
COMPARISON
BASICALLY MOSGOV COMPARES TO MEMET OKUR FORMALLY OF UTAH JAZZ. BIG MAN WHO CAN SHOOT AN UNBLOCKABLE SHOT
KOUFOS HAS MORE AN AMERICAN GAME, GREAT HOOK SHOT. IT IS CORRECT TO SAY HE IS SIMILAR TO BIRDMAN, AS FAR AS HIS PRESENCE GIVES ENERGY. I INTERVIEWED HIM LAST SEASON, VERY IMPRESSIVE PERSON. http://gainsmedia.blogspot.com/2011/04/kosta-koufos-interview-4092011.html
FARIED WILL BE A BEAST. JUST BE PATIENT. EVEN TY LAWSON BARELY PLAYED AS A ROOKIE. WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, FARIED WILL PLAY & HE WILL START.
BIRDMAN AND KENYON, THEY ARE “THE OLD GUARD, PART OF THE CARMELO TEAM.” THIS IS NOW THE TY LAWSON ERA. BASICALLY THE YOUNG PLAYERS WILL HAVE TO OUTPLAY HIM TO CLAIM THEIR MINUTES
AND THEN OF COURSE DONT FORGET NENE. HE IS OUR LEADER. HE WILL BE THE MARCUS CAMBY VETERAN FIGURE. THAT PHILLY GAME WAS INCREDIBLE.
Did your Caps Lock break?
"I do not threaten, I merely state facts"
Denverstiffs- home of the most bipolar fan base on the internet
ANYWAYS WHAT DO U THINK?
I LIKE WRITING IN CAPS. I EVEN SEND TEXTS IN CAPS SOMETIMES.
Classic
You should come to Stiffs night. We’ll know who you are by all the shouting.
Is your love worth the nausea it could bring?

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