Carmelo Will Never Get a Ring in NY
by jmdeshazer on Feb 22, 2011 12:14 PM MST
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PrintI know that sounds pretty cynical and bitter. I am neither of those. I mourn the loss of Chauncey Billups more than anything and what he meant to the Denver community than I mourn the loss of Anthony. Chauncey's class and professionalism made the Nuggets endearing and enjoyable to watch in the post-Iverson era. He's a coach's dream and always put his best foot forward. Every time I drive by George Washington High School, I think of what he's accomplished and was proud to call him a Nugget and a Denverite.
No as to the subject of this post, I can't state it more simply than this. Carmelo's reason for leaving has very little to do with winning rings has he proclaims as it does with him being able to market himself in New York and increase his brand. If he was serious about winning rings, he wouldn't have gone to New York.
New York is a franchise reminiscent of our beloved Nuggets a few years back. They'll have a high scoring, fast paced offense to light up a score board with. They will likely with 45-50 games and end up with a 6 or a 7 seed. They then will proceed to try the same antics against a Boston, Miami or Chicago and get drilled in 4-5 games in the first round. The team lacks size now that they traded their only 7 footer and Galinari, who's a hair under 7 feet.. We will indeed see history repeat itself, and besides, it's New York. They haven't one a championship in 40 years.
The Nuggets and Carmelo did need to part ways and I agree with many this is a good move for Denver. After all, we still have a healthy George Karl, a young up and coming point guard in Ty Lawson, a solid 4 or 5 in Nene (assuming they re-sign him) and tons of draft picks. It should be interesting. I don't see this team languishing in basketball purgatory as they did in the 90's with Bickerstaff, Bristow and Issel. The management seems to be on the same page and Karl has mentioned his desire to retire a Nugget. You couldn't say that about this team 10 years ago.
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i agree.. Melo wont win with the knicks.
But i for one am very happy about this trade.. Mad that billups is gone but if you think about it we really didnt lose him, because felton is just as good ppg wise, an i think he even has more apg. besides i think Billups might be back when his contract is up. With all the picks we have, and cap space, assuming we dont resign martin, atleast not for the maxium, whatever it will be, we can be the team drawing Howard to come. i say denver needs to keep felton after this season, resign martin and smith to smaller contracts, and target caron butler this off season.
by the nuggets fan on Feb 22, 2011 12:38 PM MST reply actions
It's funny
But Andrew’s Night before Xmas thing, seems to be coming true lol
Quitter's People United Member #27.5
But the Knicks have such a storied histo....ah right
It's Timofey MOZGOD time
Uriji for MVE
by Phil H. on Feb 22, 2011 1:35 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Ill go with bitter.
unless you are adept in using one of these 
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you cant say he will never win with the Knicks. It was CP3 who raised his drink to these 3 guys playing together in NY .
Im not a betting man but with those 3 guys I like the odds.
Im not here to rub anything in just pointing out the obvious in this post. You guys made out pretty well in this deal and wish all the guys you got well .
And just for the record the Knicks will suck the rest of this yr.
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
The only way CP3 is going to NY is if he takes a huge pay cut
Because after the new CBA is finalized, the cap is going to be lower than it is now . . . and the Knicks couldn’t afford a third max contract now.
WHy does everybody that pushes the CP3 theory conveniently forget this huge and important fact?
by blooming rock on Feb 22, 2011 6:37 PM MST up reply actions
CP3
Because Melo and Amare have stated they will restructure to accommodate a third star. Just look at Miami, they have 65 mil locked up for just 5 players after next year. Even with the new CBA, they will work it out if they take less, which they have agreed to.
Even when the CBA drops the cap to $48M?
That’s like $14M for each and only leaves $6M for the other 10-12 guys they need on the roster?
It’ll be interesting to see.
Even with CP3, though, I don’t see them being able to play the D requisite to get through the East and get a ’chip.
by blooming rock on Feb 22, 2011 10:25 PM MST up reply actions
How are they restructuring deals??
Didn’t at least Amare sign a max deal? I mean maybe Melo could restructure, but I think he is taking all of the money too.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
We're not "laying on" the Knicks
We’re laying on Melo. What goes unrecognized by most Knick fans is how terrible a defender Carmelo is. When you pair his defensive shortcomings alongside Amare, you better have the best defensive backcourt in the league or you are gonna get smoked. Neither of them are great chasers, both love to switch and have never been reputed for defense.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Feb 22, 2011 4:52 PM MST up reply actions
Melo has to drastically change his game a la Pierce
But he is too interested in himself to do that. It will take at least 3-4 yrs before he realizes winning is more important than scoring titles and all-star appearances.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Feb 22, 2011 5:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Less cynical and more bitter. You know that word "hater" that the kids throw around nowadays? There you go.
It’s always fascinating when people will put something out like “it’s all about stats and all-star appearances to him” or he’ll “NEVER” win a title in New York…..
So all the seasons that he was the man leading the charge in Denver, he was secretly just pumping up his stats for all those scoring titles and all-star votes? You knw, since that’s all that mattered to him? And yet you cheered for him anyway? And what a magnificent cover-up since I don’t recall ever reading anything remotely like that about him on this blog BEFORE he decided he wanted to leave! Did the Nuggets front office get to Nate and Andrew to not put anything like that out?
I want answers! I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!
And as far as the “winning” goes…. maybe it’s safe to say that after 6 first round exits in 7 seasons Melo felt like it was playing in DENVER that was never going to get him that ring. Or maybe it’s the fact that a city and franchise like the NY Knicks is a place that can get the big name free agents to come as opposed to a city like Denver that up to this point hasn’t?
And should a dig like the Knicks not having won a championship in 40 years really come from the fan of a team that’s been to a grand total of 3 WCF’s in it’s entire history?
Come on now.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 22, 2011 7:15 PM MST reply actions
I've followed your comments on all the post-trade threads and it's always the same:
“All you Nuggets fans were talking about how crappy the Knicks offer was until it happened, now you love it.” I never said a single thing about the Knicks offer, and most people were down on it when it was simply: Chandler, Randolf, 1st . . . or some such crap. Not Chandler, Gallo, Felton, Mozgov, 1st, 2-2nd’s, and $3M.
And if you don’t have any recollection of the negative views some fans had on Melo in the past few years (represented by the tone in many of Andrew’s articles) . . . you haven’t spent much time at this site . . . so don’t act like you have.
I’ve been one of Melo’s biggest fans and apologists since he’s been on the team: but it’s clear that he’s not going to leasd a player to a title. I think he’s a great #2, but not a true franchise player. You might say that DENVER was never going to get Melo that ring, I say MELO was never going to get Denver that ring.
by blooming rock on Feb 22, 2011 10:32 PM MST up reply actions
Ugh.
There’s no point in debating this with you. You’re not even reading what I wrote. If you go back for weeks and weeks, in just about any post written about Melo’s impending departure there are countless Nuggets fans going on and on about how the Knick players being offered (Gallo, Chandler, Felton, etc.) were “garbage” and how no Knick offer should be accepted because of that. It had nothing to do with the “offer”. It was the assets. And many of the people that were writing that are now crowing about what the front office was able to obtain and how the Knicks were “raped” for these same players. It’s called REVISIONIST HISTORY and it pretty laughable.
And as far as Andrew articles… While Andrew may not have been a “fan” of Melo, nowhere that I read did Andrew ever accuse Melo of playing simply for stats or all-star appearances. While Melo may not have been able to lead his team to a title, to suggest now that he’s gone that he was nothing more than a stat stuffer out for his own personal gain is pretty pathetic. Because had he signed that extension that NEVER would have been written.
Obviously you’re reading but not comprehending what’s being written.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 22, 2011 11:17 PM MST up reply actions
My reading comprehension is quite good thanks.
All the Nuggets fans you’re complaining about creating REVISIONIST HISTORY never had a chance to complain about the trade that actually went down because it wasn’t leaked in its final form until yesterday, when the Knicks caved on their original final offer.
Beyond that, Nuggets fans and analysts aren’t the only people saying the Nuggets did well in this deal, either. Several national analysts are commending the deal the Nuggets got. Why do you care so much anyway? You’re a Laker fan.
And while Andrew may not have directly said Melo plays for stats and himself, he’s made several comments about how he’s been disinterested, jacking up shots with no regard to the impact on the result of the game, only playing defense when he wants, not learning or growing, showing up out of shape for the season, etc. Those are all references to Melo caring about Melo rather than playing for and with his team.
There was a growing contingent of many-many Nuggets fans that have questioned Melo’s motivation to grow and take the step to the next level in the past few years. While I’ve never said, and never will say, that Melo plays only for stats or All-Star appearances (that’s a bit extreme and misguided); he’s pretty damned focused on what people think of him and not quite as focused on committing himself to all facets of the game to take advantage of all his talents.
Hence the original point of this post: Melo’s new team is likely about where Melo’s old team was (good, not great). Not whatever crap you’re dragging into it. The points made in the original post are valid, you’re just picking on some slight he made about the last time the Knicks won the championship . . . overlook that and focus on the rest of what he’s saying if you’d like to comment further and add something new/intelligent to the conversation.
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 3:43 AM MST up reply actions
Like I said, your reading comprehension could use some work. You seem to think everything is directed specifically at you while I'm speaking far more generally.
You keep talking about “the trade”. Well, the trade wouldn’t exist without the principals involved (meaning the PLAYERS) and that’s who Nuggets fans were calling garbage. I feel it was a great haul for the Nuggets. They got far more than I was expecting they would. But that doesn’t change the fact that now Nuggets fans are changing their tune on the trade and the players involved they were so dead set against, name-calling and degrading, and that’s hypocritical and laughable.
And please, if you think “most Nuggets fans” were echoing any of Andrew’s feelings on Melo until the very end you’re being ridiculous and naive too. I remember Andrew practically being hung in effigy by the majority of people on here when he initially mused that maybe it was time for Melo to go. The were screaming about how “Melo might read this!” and whether Andrew “just hated Melo or the entire Nuggets organization”. People were all about Melo when you thought you could still keep him and there was no reference to him being just a “chucker” and being out for himself.
Total revisionist history, friend. Good luck with that.
The Knicks are in a place the Nuggets can’t get to. While the teams might be the same now (good, not great), the Knicks have the marquee name and an owner willing to overspend to get great players there. Amar’e, Melo and soon either CP3 or D-Will. After that, players will come just for a chance to chase that ring, much like Boston and Miami.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 23, 2011 10:12 AM MST up reply actions
No more food for you.
You aren’t listening to what I’m saying.
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 10:13 AM MST up reply actions
That's exactly what someone with no real argument would say.
I accept. I am right.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 23, 2011 1:57 PM MST up reply actions
Funny little alternate universe you live in there.
Falling into the very same category as you accuse little old me of (re.-lack of reading comprehension) by answering to NONE of my comments and blabbering about yours yet again.
No one wins at the end of a back and forth like this.
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
Door's over there Clyde Frog
I think you know the way out.
"You cocky cock! You'll pay for your crimes against humanity!"
"He's like a man with a fork in a world of soup."
One last thing: never heard anything about not being able to attract a big name free agent to Denver
The issue is that they were over the cap almot Melo’s entire time on the team (mostly because of Kiki’s horrible management and that blasted KMart contract).
by blooming rock on Feb 22, 2011 10:35 PM MST up reply actions
What do you have to "hear"?
Name me one major “super star” free agent the Nuggets have been able to land.
Denver’s just not one of those “marquee” destinations. Like it or not, NY is.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 22, 2011 11:19 PM MST up reply actions
How did that loss to the Cavaliers feel dude??
At least you weren’t the team that busted their streak.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
That loss hurt. It never should have happened and as a fan I was ashamed of the team's performance that night.
How did those losses in 08-09 feel?
At least we weren’t the team that busted your streak of not making it into the NBA Finals.
OH SNAP!!!!!
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 23, 2011 3:21 AM MST up reply actions
You're a class act man.
Way to stay above the petty insults.
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 3:23 AM MST up reply actions
Oh, you mean like everyone else?
Give me a break.
You wanna give, you’re gonna get.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 23, 2011 3:25 AM MST up reply actions
being a marquee destination
is what got you eddy curry.
i dont kare if my wurds are spelt wrong.
by Over-and-back on Feb 23, 2011 1:24 AM MST up reply actions
No, horrible management got the Knicks Eddy Curry.
You know, just like horrible management saddled you with K-Mart’s contract.
And imagine, he was one of your biggest marquee signings!
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Feb 23, 2011 3:24 AM MST up reply actions
you have his soon to be twin
good luck with amare’s knees.
i dont kare if my wurds are spelt wrong.
by Over-and-back on Feb 23, 2011 9:07 AM MST up reply actions
ny is the marquee city and the knicks are the premier team
and you still couldnt do better than a small market team like denver. thats pretty pitiful.
i dont kare if my wurds are spelt wrong.
by Over-and-back on Feb 23, 2011 9:11 AM MST up reply actions
That's the equality of the NBA
Denver was lucky to have a crappy enough record to land the third pick of the 2003 draft. When Detroit took Milicik second after LeBron the Nugs landed their franchise player. Now they have parlayed that into a solid young roster that should keep them relevant for a very long time. Melo was the gift that kept on giving. Poor Detroit got screwed with their pick.
No need to hate the Knicks. They did what they had to do to get Melo. They paid a steep price. Time will tell if they did the right thing. As a Knick fan who thought initially that the price was too steep, I am comforted by the words of Bill Simmons who says something like “In the history of the NBA in trades involving a super star player the team getting the super star always gets the better end of the deal.”
Island Red Fly - try it scrambled
Now you're the one that's not reading my comments:
They’ve been over the cap since Melo was here . . . AKA: No monies to signz big name free agents! Get it? Good.
And I’m talking about during Melo’s time here . . . not drag up some issue you’ve got with the Nuggets franchise since they came over from Kentucky.
Beyond all this, of course NY’s a premier destination . . . did I ever indicate otherwise?
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 3:09 AM MST up reply actions
I still want to know how melo's square peg is going to fit into D'antoni's round hole
and yes, I realize how hilariously inappropriate that sounds.
But seriously, Melo’s game is anathema to D’antoni’s system. One of them will have to change drastically.
by Rainbow skyline on Feb 23, 2011 10:48 AM MST reply actions
If another Knicks fan can chime in here...
It’s a fair point to think Melo can’t lead a team to a title. He didn;t in Denver and you guys HAVE had some very good teams.
For what it’s worth, I thought last year was your shot too. I honestly think if George karl was healthy and coaching those playoffs, you guys coudl have surprised the league.
In any case, I think it’s a worthy point to think that part of going to NY is Melo’s building of his own brand (which is large already…but can still increase in these bright lights). We may not have many actual championships, but there is no denying the draw of New York. Many Knick fans are well aware of Melo’s greed and while many of us are bittersweet about what we gave up to get him (and we are well aware of his defensive abilities, contrary to what another post mentioned), it was an inevitable conclusion.
I’ve lurked over these boards just to see what you gusy have thought leading up to the trade. Most people underestimate the talents of Gallo and Ill Will. You’ll love them. Gallo’s flare and his ability to take over a quarter will leave you cheering. Gallo is rooster in Italian, so naturally we call him The Cock. Have fun with that. We sure as hell have. Especially in the game threads! Contrast his play with the ston faced Chandler andyou guys are gonna love our beloved-duo.
Ray Felton is a bulldog and I beleive him to be a similar player to Chancey Billups. He’s not a better shooter, but he’s 26 and geting better and loves the up-tempo style!! For $7Mil, I think you guys cleaned up.
Anyways, those of you knocking the Knicks talent will hopefully come to appreciate why Knicks fans were up in arms about losing these “role players”.
And I hope to hell Melo proves you gusy wrong and helps NY to a long-desired title with Amar’e and maybe even Billups.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 23, 2011 2:03 PM MST reply actions
what can i say, im excited to watch ball again
and with the west being chopped down a bit and the east getting beefed up a bit, should be interesting.
im not a knicks fan but i am a ny fan. i will have to go to at least one game in the garden to check up on our guy (melo) and to make sure you are treating him right.
cheers
i dont kare if my wurds are spelt wrong.
by Over-and-back on Feb 23, 2011 2:11 PM MST up reply actions
I hope Melo proves the haters wrong too
I always felt JR had that role of being hated the most, but Melo was up there too. I hope he doesn’t bring his primadonna act to NY.
I know Amare had a tough time coexisting with Marion, I wonder how he will fare with Melo.
Billups can only do so much, actually at this point he just wants to play bball and doesn’t care about being Melo’s babysitter anymore.
I will be rooting for you guys against the Heat. I love Chauncey to much not to root for him. I hope Melo actually tries to play, I hate how he coasted through games for us this season.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
Thanks for the post. A little insight into what Knick's fans are thinking is appreciated.
I’ll be very interested to see how Melo fits in with D’antoni’s system, sharing the shots with Amare, and how the team looks on D. I’ve nothing against the Knicks, just think it’ll be a bit before they’ll be able to build a championship team around the two of them.
Best of luck.
by blooming rock on Feb 23, 2011 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
I think Melo said it best in his NY press conference
He pointed out that many teams have 2 stars and they get along just fine. Seems to me that if both guys are happy there they will figure it out. Melo shoots a lot but his efficiency numbers are good. When he wants to he can rebound well and pass the ball… he can even defend! It’s just gonna be about them getting used to things.
Here’s to hoping its sooner rather than later!!!
Meanwhile… may I present to you… Danilo Gallinari
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 23, 2011 4:42 PM MST up reply actions
He's too selfish and a terrible team leader to win a title.
Knicks fans will enjoy his bad fouls and terrible shots late in games.
never say never
everyone bashing melo from here on the denver side sounds like total fucking chumps. personally i’m gonna miss him. a lot. dude is the most versatile scorer in the league, with a TON of gamewinners to his credit. nuggets w/o melo these past few years…forget it. pure suck.
it’s true that he’s not the type to put a team on his back as a leader and go out and set the example. especially on the defensive end. he’s a gunner. but surround him with good players and a fantastic pg (like maybe…billups?), and he’s the scoring punch on a championship-caliber squad. A squad like Denver two years ago…just a hair’s breadth from the finals.
the knicks will need more pieces before they can win it all. but i think amare, melo, billups are a great core. i wish homie the very best of luck…just not against the nuggets.
by AgainstTheLaw.Son on Feb 23, 2011 10:42 PM MST reply actions
Knicks contenders, yes/maybe; Chances of a championship...hmmm
Just like his tenure in Denver, he helped the Nuggets become contenders, but even with a talented and deep team, he was never going to lead them to a title.
Nuggets fans should be thankful that he helped the Nuggets become competitive and re-energized the franchise. He’s an incredible offensive (individual) talent, but he doesn’t play defensive, isn’t a leader and his play is stagnant to rest of the team’s offense.
He will make things entertaining in NY, but in the end D wins championships and I just don’t see that happening in NY.
Knick fans tend to be a bit delusional about their championship prospects, just as many thought they should wait for Melo to become a free-agent. At least Dolan understands its a business and ultimately, like Melo, he just wants to make $ and with Melo he will.
If Carmelo really wanted to win a championship in NY, he wouldn’t have allowed the Knicks to give up so much talent, waited for free agency and taken his chances with the CBA. Apparently his primarily focus is about the $ and being a superstar in a major market. Good for him, that’s his choice.
Knick will have an extremely entertaining team with Amare and Melo, fun to watch during the regular season, but disappointing in playoffs.
Everyone should be respected as an individual, but no one idolized.
first real post so don't murder me, but in my honest opinion...
The Knicks won’t go anywhere past the second round with billups melo and amare. I don’t think billups is the right fit for d’antoni’s offense, his legs aren’t fresh like felton’s were. He’s already slowing down on d, and i think that only gets worse if d’antoni has him logged at 32 minutes a game fast breaking. Turiaf isn’t a legit 5, and 5’s are so hard to come by these days i don’t see it happening. Plus, fast-break offenses always falter to half court teams come playoffs.
No way a third max contract comes, and if one were to, I’m not sure Melo would accept taking a pay cut, he’s a very selfish player… He might demand a trade to a specific team, and ruin basketball for knicks fans for half a season.
On the Nuggets side of things I think fans are starting to see the talent we’re getting, and are starting to appreciate what you guys gave up. But, i still think chandlers out after this season, and i read everywhere of gallo’s love for the east coast. I love that Lawson is starting, but i imagine felton doesn’t, and i think denver trade’s him now while he’s a hot commodity; his stats were after all inflated by d’antoni’s system…
I don’t see either team truly winning from it. The Knicks get closer to a championship, and the Nuggets hit the refresh button, and that’s where it stops… wish billups luck in NY, and Denver luck rebuilding.
and if the Knicks announcer steals denver’s MEEEELLLOO chant, i may cry.
by mutombo's waiving finger on Feb 24, 2011 1:18 AM MST reply actions
i have nothing against felton
but yeah, for money purposes, if we can get rid of him now and trade harrington. there will be plenty of new cap money to offer contracts to the guys we really should be thinking about keeping long term (aaa, lawson etc).
i’ll even take what you said a step further and get more murdered than you, if the knicks trade chauncey for chris paul and have paul, melo and amare in their lineup, there still wont be a championship in their future. its only my opinion but i dont see those 3 gelling as a team. and they wont have the kind of defense they would need against a celtics like team.
i dont kare if my wurds are spelt wrong.
by Over-and-back on Feb 24, 2011 10:15 AM MST up reply actions
Billups has already transformed the knicks into more half court type team
I don’t think billups is the right fit for d’antoni’s offense, his legs aren’t fresh like felton’s were.
Felton was already wearing down as a Knick. Playing behind Lawson will preserve him for the playoffs.
Plus, fast-break offenses always falter to half court teams come playoffs.In just three games Billups has transformed the Knicks into a more halfcourt oriented team to the delight of many Knick fans who yearned for the grittier style of the 90’s Knicks. They still get out and run at every opportunity but if the defense is set then Billups tends to pull the ball back and set up the offense. Felton would just charge down the middle and try to force the action or hoist up an ill advised three. Billups is a better outside shooter than Felton but a weaker defender. I really liked Felton on the Knicks. I really like Billups on the Knicks.
Island Red Fly - try it scrambled
I have to tell you that does sound a bit bitter
I don’t think there is any reason that the Knicks could not win a championship, especially with CB at the point.
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