Nuggets' free agent soap opera continues...
Like sands through the hourglass ... so are the days of our Nuggets lives. Last season we put up with the (do I even need to say it?) And now, the Nuggets are again a hot topic team because free agents Arron Afflalo (restricted) and Nene (unrestricted) are making other NBA general managers salivate. Like any good soap opera, the twists and turns will be aplenty and I'd like to introduce a couple new characters to the Nuggets' landscape: Thaddeus Young (restricted) and DeAndre Jordan (restricted) dun, dun, duuuunnnnnn!
Did I recall the "Like sand though the hourglass ... so are the days of our lives" quote by memory? Of course I did! When I was a wee-lad I used to stay with my grandparents quite a bit and my mom's dad, my grandpa, used to watch Days of Our Lives like clockwork or sand in the hourglass-work. The interesting part, my grandma didn't watch that soap. So, the two of them were both hooked on cheesy daytime dramas, but they'd watch different ones. It wasn't long until I knew the cast, including Marlena, Roman and Bo Brady, and Victor Kiriakis aka John Aniston, yep Jennifer Aniston's father.
The other day I was watching some daytime television and low-and-behold Days of Our Lives was on. Roman was talking to Marlena and a few other scenes came on and I knew about 90% of the cast. Things hadn't changed one bit, my soap opera family was still intact with a couple new players to boot.
Well, our Nuggets family in Afflalo (two seasons in Denver) and Nene (nine seasons in Denver) is being threatened, as we all know. Rumors of Afflalo being coveted by the hated Los Angeles Lakers (where AAA is from) and Chicago Bulls are leaking out, according to ESPN's Marc Stein. And Nene, old news, has a list of suitors as long as his career rebounding numbers, seven.
Should the Nuggets bring back Afflalo and Nene?
This is the question that everyone in Nuggets Nation is asking. The vibe I'm picking up is that everyone wants to see AAA back, from the fans to the front office. Nuggets general manager Masai Ujiri addressed Afflalo and Nene in his press conference this week and said the team wants both guys back. But while Ujiri wants both guys back, the fans seem torn on whether or not the team should bring Nene back.
The 29 year-old Brazilian has had his ups-and-downs in Denver and with the team being younger; it's time to ask if the Nuggets should bring him back for another four to five seasons (which would make Nene 34 years-old at the end of a max-contract.) Does committing to Nene make sense? Let's get the take from your fellow Denver Stiffs writers ...
Andrew Feinstein: It's hard to take Nene's comments about being "disrespected" seriously when a guy who has averaged 12.3 ppg and 6.9 rpg for his career and still cannot be counted on in the fourth quarter (on either end of the floor) just turned down a four-year, $50 million contract extension from our Nuggets. But while $50 million might be considered overpaid by some or just-about-right by others, it doesn't change the fact that losing Nene presents an assortment of issues that I don't believe the Nuggets want to face. And therefore, Nene should be re-signed if the price can be kept reasonable (whatever that means anymore).
That being said, if George Karl had committed to playing Nene at the power forward slot earlier we may not be having this discussion. Nene has been playing out of position for the past three seasons. Count me among the many people who think that Nene has been misused through most of the latter part of his Nuggets career. While I would have loved to see Nene play alongside a "proper" center I'm not 100% convinced that Karl would actually play him there.
So, since Nene is most likely going to be quite expensive to retain - and the fact that he's most likely be put back at the center spot - I'd say that maybe it's best for the organization that Nene move on. This will force Karl to actually play Mozgov at center and we will try to develop our young players as best we can.
So long Nene.
Nate (me!): This entire situation is now up to Nene. He's an unrestricted free agent and Denver can't do much that hasn't been done already to retain him. The grass is going to look Celtics green when Nene visits other teams. Nene maintaining the "disrespected" angle is going to make things easy for opposing GMs. Wooing Nene wont be difficult and the Nuggets have reached the end of the road with the big man.
Nene has been a steady force in the middle for Denver, only missing 12 games the past three seasons. Reports have stated he has been working out with Tim Duncan and others in the off-season; and I think he could teach the young bigs on the team a ton about playing in the post both offensively and defensively. Nene has three or four more big years ahead of him, but I think his desire to leave is real and I believe it's time for the Nuggets to go ahead and move in a different direction. If Nene was stating that he wanted to come back, would my feelings be different? I don't know anymore. As much as I want things to stay the same, I need to realize it might be best for the franchise to seek a new beginning.
For those of you scoring at home:
Timmons and Morton think, begrudgingly, that Nene should go. Feinstein would like to see Nene stay.
What to do if Nene leaves?
As David Aldridge reported on Nov. 29th, teams have been allowed to contact player agents as of two days ago. The Nuggets will know if things with Nene are not going to work out sooner rather than later.
Option 1: Go sign Thaddeus Young away from the Philadelphia 76ers to play small forward. Click here for his stats.
Small forward? But that's Danilo Gallinari's position! Yes, it was. With Young, the Nuggets get a young (23 years-old) kid who loves to get up-and-down the floor - George Karl's style. The NFL is known as a copy-cat league, and the NBA should be as well. Following the Mavericks championship path, the Nuggets could:
- Start a quick point guard in Ty Lawson (J.J. Barea) and have the veteran come off the bench in Andre Miller (Jason Kidd). An opposite plan of Dallas, but perhaps better.
- Have a deadly shooter and defensive minded shooting guard in Arron Afflalo (DeShawn Stevenson).
- Start Thaddeus Young at small forward, a do it all Shawn Marion type.
- Move Gallo to power forward to create speed and stretch the floor for match-up issues.
- Start Mozgov as a defensive minded center who can rebound, a la Tyson Chandler.
- The bench would feature very high energy players in Kenneth Faried and Chris Andersen and hopefully scoring threats in Al Harrington, Jordan Hamilton, and perhaps Gary Forbes.
How to pry Young away from the Sixers:
I reached out to Sixers expert and Liberty Ballers writer Michael Levin for his impressions on Young and here is what he had to say:
Michael Levin: We of Philadelphia are quite worried about Thaddeus Young. Though there are two camps in which the worriers find themselves. One camp is of the mind that Thad, at 23, is extremely talented for his age, coming off the best season of his career, and is beloved by coach Doug Collins. They're hoping to lock him up long-term because it would hurt the team too badly to lose him and, with the way he improved under Collins, the sky is the limit for a kid with great work ethic and improving game.
Unfortunately, I'm in the other group. We in the as yet unnamed Group #2 are extremely worried that Thaddeus, who reportedly asked for $11 million per this past summer, will get a mammoth contract for a player that, according to the stats that matter, hasn't gotten markedly better since his rookie season. He never developed a jump shot and last year only took 22 three-pointers. He has mediocre handles for a small forward and is undersized for the 4. While his offensive rebounding is some of the best in the game for his size, he's way below average for a power forward on the interior on defense. He's not a guy you run plays for, as Mo Cheeks said a few years back, and you don't sign an offensive-minded player to a 5 year, 50 million dollar deal if you're not going to run plays for him.
He's a very nice player and could blossom into a #3 on a contending team. But he's a tweener that's really good in the open floor and pretty mediocre in the half-court. If we sign him to a 4 year, $30 million deal, I'd be ... okay with it. The likelihood is they'll overpay. And if Denver wants him, they'll also have to overpay because both Thad and the Sixers front office want Thad to stay in Philly. It remains to be seen what the new ownership's stance will be, but if I had to bet, I'm guessing Thad will be in Philly for a while, making a ton of money to be a good 6th man on a decidedly mediocre basketball team.
Nate's Verdict: Levin thinks the Nuggets would have to overpay Young, almost to the tune of what Nene was offered at 4 years and $50 million. Would Nuggets Nation be comfortable with the team giving Young $10M+ per season when more traditional options might be available? Probably not. I would like to see Denver sneak in with the promise of a starting role and perhaps $8 million per season and if Philly matches (as Young is a restricted free agent) then they match it. Teams will have just three days to match contracts to RFAs, down from seven days under the old Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Option 2: Sign DeAndre Jordan away from the Los Angeles Clippers to play power forward in Denver.
Power forward? Nate, did you slip-and-fall on the ice last night ... you're talking crazy. I realize that Jordan isn't a polished player by any means and the Nuggets need a reliable scorer. But if the team is going young, why not let Gallo, Lawson, and Afflalo try to develop as scorers and let Jordan and Moz concentrate on the dirty work in the starting lineup together. Two towers of Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol has worked for the Lakers (yes, Pau is very polished), so why not gamble on the 23 year-old Jordan here?
- The front-court of Gallo (6'10''), Jordan (6'11''), and Moz (7'1'') would be the most intimidating front line in the league.
Nate's Verdict: Damn these restricted free agents! The one off-season when the Nuggets have an abundance in salary cap room, is the one where many of the intriguing players are RFAs. Rats. Again, the Nuggets would likely have to spend $10M+ to get Jordan. Like Perrin said, Jordan and Griffin are great friends so it'd be crazy for the Clips to let him go. But, this is a business right? So, the Nuggets should chase Jordan over the undersized Carl Landry and coming back from injury David West.
What direction do you think the Nuggets should take?
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Nate
I think that overspending for 2 average players is a little bit out of hand. I really like both, especially Thad Young (he always plays well against the Nuggets), but to pay him about 2 thirds of what LeBron will earn is a little bit too much. Also, DeAndre Jordan is quite a force, still very young, but again, paying him 10+ a year is way too much. I can live with both being offered around 5-6-7 a year, but not 10 million a year. I hope that in case Nene walks away, to do a sign and trade with Houston or Golden State (less likely, because they are not contenders), also when Chandler return from China to do a sign and trade with him too (he has a lot of suitors around the league) and pile up as many picks for next year as possible. Because we are not required to acquire players up to 85% of the cap room (just pay the difference to the current players), I say we best play the youngsters, maybe take a chance on Greg Oden if it’s not to expensive (don’t know why I’ve said this..but the guy could be a beast..or bust) and wait till next year, when the draft is going to be awesome.
In order to succeed, you must first fail. Look at all teams not named Lakers, and you’ll see. The Spurs (one bad year-they get Duncan), Bulls (semi-stinking year, they get D-Rose), OKC (a few bad years – they get Durant,Westbrook and Harden) etc.
I hear you man, just trying to bring realism to the FA situation.
If the Nuggets lowball restricted free agents, their teams will just match. I don’t see a way to get either guy really.
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5-6-7 a year won't get you DJ
Clips will match that without even blinking.
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I've been thinking on it
Honestly I’m with Nate and I believe Nene’s desire to part ways is genuine. It’s not a negotiating tactic or a ploy by his agent to get more money. Nene is already the most desired free agent this year and he doesn’t need to say anything to get teams to bid for him
Nene’s talking like he’s turned the page on this chapter of his life. He fulfilled all of his obligations to the Nuggets with a lot of heart. He definitely earned the right to go get a very large contract and get every last penny that free agency has to offer him.
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Agreed
If Nene leaves, at least he did it the right way. He didn’t force his way out early so he could get a max deal. He didn’t Lebron us by pretending he was coming back and then pulling the rug out at the last second. If someone wants to make the mistake of paying him more than what the nuggets offered, I don’t blame him at all for leaving. I think he’s known for months what the other teams will offer.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
That's bull.
Nene hasn’t earned the right to max money, he just lucked int it by being the best available option in a putrid FA class. If he were a double-double machine, I could see it, and really, he should be a double-double machine. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been that, and never will be (see Jeff’s comments in original post re his lack of aggression).
by Ski Bum on Dec 2, 2011 1:19 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
If Nene leaves though
wouldn’t that make it a lot easier to sign Marc Gasol? Gasol is basically the same player as Nene, just not as fast as him.. on the plus side, he is bigger.
He's a restricted FA
Memphis can and will match anything we offer him, unfortunately.
For that exact reason we should offer Gasol the full max deal.
That ties up a lot of their $$ and takes one more team out of the equation for next summer
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by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 2, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Why not do it?
We either get him or if Memphis matches they won’t be able to keep the rest of their core next season
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by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 2, 2011 11:51 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Because
If we do, we probably would not be able to offer Nene a similar deal, and he would definitly leave, which means Denver would not have the cap to build a better team, nor the higher draft picks to draft one.
Actually they have the cap room to offer both max deals.
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by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 2, 2011 5:07 PM MST up reply actions
Don't see how...
$27 million of cap space wouldn’t even cover max deals for Gasol and Nene, let alone resigning Arron Afflalo. Don’t think even amnesting Harrington would do that.
Amnesty Al would put us at 32.5
It’s not quite max almost. Then AAA is restricted so we can match even if those 2 are signed. I think we would loose the MLE but if we got those 3 I wouldn’t care.
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by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 2, 2011 7:27 PM MST up reply actions
Isn't Gasol a better option than Nene?
I’m not even sure how this is a conversation. Gasol stepped it up these past playoffs and Nene shrunk like he was in cold water.
Gasol is NOT the same player as Nene
Nene is better at pretty much everything than Gasol. Nene has consistently been in the top 15 in win shares, Adjusted +-, and PER differential.
Nene as a player is criminally underrated by most. He’s a better player than Melo, period. He plays a more positionally scarce role, too. I don’t see why Nuggets homers are so quick to want Melo at the max and admonish Nene for turning down 12.5/year.
Nene fits the team a lot better also
because he can play PF, while Gasol essentially moves Mozgov to the bench. I don’t think you can by Moz next to Gasol.
Calling Nene better than Melo simply undercuts your argument. There isn’t a single team in the league that would take Nene over Melo given the choice. Nene has the skills but not the mental attitude, it’s as simple as that.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 11:01 AM MST up reply actions
I hear what you are saying but
Miami would take Nene over Melo right now. So would Thunder, Warriors, Pacers and Rockets.
Assumes GK will plpay Mozgov anyway
..big if, based on last year.
by Pusherman on Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That's baloney and you know it
The only reason Miami wouldn’t want Melo is because he duplicates Lebron James. Given a blank slate on your team, which one is better, no one picks Nene. No one. Melo outproduces Nene completely. Outscores, outrebounds, creates shots for others, draws fouls, and wants the ball in the clutch. Nene is like Rasheed Wallace. A very nice player with no desire to be the leader of your team.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 12:55 PM MST up reply actions 3 recs
Agree with everything you said
Except I would say Melo “is more capable of creating shots for others.”
that might be true
but none of them would say that Nene is better than Melo Rxmart’s comment is just poppycock.
Just getting started..
It is going to be a long week. The rumors have just gotten started. At least the resolution will be quicker than the Melo saga.
Enjoy the ride. I for one am hoping we get Nene and AAA back. But who the knows what happen. Don’t envy the front office at all. Nuggets aren’t exactly a prime spot for the players right now..
Let's hear your ideas for what Denver should do...
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Oops... After I posted the first comment I was afraid....
I just did enjoy the grandparents story, It wasn’t intended to mean anything more than that.
You’re here all the time my friend. I don’t take offense to anything! And I now understand what you mean. I’m suffering from a cold at the moment so I also may be delusional right now!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 10:08 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks! May head out and get that~!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:04 AM MST up reply actions
Been a huge Nene fan from the get-go
But I think he’s reached his peak. He’s always had the talent – just never the drive to take over a game. Even after Melo left, he still didn’t assert himself. I wish him the best, but as many of us have decided, if we want to develop our players and hit rock bottom for this year’s talented draft class, cutting ties with Nene is the way to do it.
by RoxWS2014 on Dec 2, 2011 9:16 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Nene did shine after Melo left... still he was reliant on getting the ball
which in some games didn’t happen. Big Nene fan – but he couldn’t shine against OKC which points to his glaring weakness.
I’m with you, man!! If he thinks he can find Nirvana somewhere else… God Bless.
Don't Forget His Terrible Free Throw Shooting After The Trade
Nene was clearly bothered that the FO ignored his request for an extension prior to the Melo trade. And, he free throw shooting - often showed it- as he threw up brick after brick at the line. Nene is obviously an honorable but sensitive man, and the FO burnt a bridge that will likely not be repaired. The FO should move into sign and trade mode so Nene can get the best deal possible and the Nuggets get something decent (picks/one year deals) in return.
Mark my words— Moz will soon make us forget the big Brazilian.
by ACEIII on Dec 2, 2011 12:50 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
"Moz will soon make us forget the big Brazilian"
I think you’re right…if Karl will play him. Can the Nugs amnesty the coach?
by Ski Bum on Dec 2, 2011 1:30 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Any insight
on scouting reports for Mozgov? I’m pulling big time for the big man. What gives you this optimism? Hope you’re right.
Well, last week he scored 20 pts and grabbed 10 boards in all of 14 minutes of play. Granted, that was not an NBA game, but he was dominant. He set good picks, he rolled, he finished. When others missed, he got the rebound. He’s amazingly quick for a 7’1" 270# guy. Injury and George Karl kept us from seeing any of that last year. He just needs a chance to play.
Nuggs Were Wise to Press Knicks for Moz
Reports out of EuroLeague— the second best pro league to the NBA – are that Moz is the best young big in Europe. He is Big, has a great motor, is very active, has soft hands, great footwork, a nice shooting touch and is an exceptional passer. Think a young Arvidas Sobonas. He just needs minutes and I think you will see a lot of 20-10 nights for the kid.
by ACEIII on Dec 2, 2011 4:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I hope...
..the front office doesn’t spend too much time trying to stroke Nene’s ego, which could cause them to lose out on other good young players. I’m much more in favor of spending money on mutliple young players that could develop rather than throwing a ton of money at one old(ish) player (Nene) that is not going to get them over the top. Having said that, throwing $10 million at either Jordan or Young is a little nuts unless you really think they could become stars. I haven’t watched either enough to make that call.
My thoughts…they get AAA, then some fillers and we are lottery bound.
I get the feeling
that might be the FO’s plan as well. I hope it is. Masai has to play the “we want Nene back” card regardless whether he wants Nene to feel appreciated and stay, or to have more leverage when it comes to trading Nene. So his comments regarding Nene could mean anything. I’d like to think they mean the latter.
by RoxWS2014 on Dec 2, 2011 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
JR's line
52 pts, 22 boards, 7 steals. No mention of assists…ha.
Apparently, his “injury” is okay.
I know I'm in a unique terrirory when I say this, but
I’m a huge JR fan. I get that he loses control, but he has WORLDS of talent. Sure, he probably doesn’t pass the ball when he plays abroad. But honestly, he really does not play selfishly in Denver. He plays immaturely but not selfishly. He’s actually a beautiful passer when he penetrates, and if you notice, he’s always the most excited for other teammates when they do well. I know his days with us are likely over, but if he EVER matures, he can dominate a game in so many ways. That’s a big if though.
He's the "go-to" scorer that everyone says we need!
Give J.R. the green light, I bet it will make him look to pass more because he doesn’t have to worry about if he’s gonna “get his” cause he could at any time.
by The_NGUYENNER on Dec 2, 2011 2:21 PM MST up reply actions
Been saying those exact words for 3 seasons
Give him the touches he needs and let’s just see what he can do in that role. We never did that. I don’t see why it would have hurt. The role we gave him was to come in and score when we needed offensive energy. Well he played that role, so why pigeon-hole him for it. It’s a shame. We’re looking through free agency for guys with upside to spend money on, well JR has undeniably the most upside.
But the reality is George Karl will never give him that chance. It’s a shame. What a perfect year to try it out.
well
I think I’m officially over Nene, let’s see if he really feels “appreciated” somewhere else. Hopefully he at least gets to play PF (but I doubt it). As far as Young and Jordan go, I think it’s a TERRIBLE idea to shell out that kind of money to either. The only guys worth10+ Mil are Nene and Gasol IMO
Yep, I was curious to know the values of DeAndre and Young, thus why I reached out to Steve and Michael. I had a feeling they were going to come back with high dollar amounts, but too rich for the Nuggets’ blood I think.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
Stop it, Nate!
I’m not used to having so many articles in such a short amount of time!
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Nate, the way you draw from the expertise of your brethren..
…on other SBNation sites leads to some really informative posts. Thanks!!
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
Thanks man, they know more than I do about “their” guys – so I figured we’d get some better insight.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 10:10 AM MST up reply actions
What about Shane Battier?
I think he’d be a welcomed Veteran presence on a young team.
MOZGOD Member #35
Nate...take some alka seltzer and some vitamin C...that will get ya through the day
Great article btw. Loved reading it.
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Thanks for your thoughts on Nene!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions
The problem is that no one else can provide what Nene does
and that means we either sign Nene or we rebuild. Gasol might come closer than anyone to giving us what Nene does but all indications are that he is gonna get locked up.
I just wrote about this in “Nene or Bust”. No Nene should mean no Young, no DJ and trading older guys to hit the lottery hard. Draft is gonna be good this year.
I either want a good chance to win it all or I want to be horrible. No 40 win seasons.
Good job with the write up Nate, thank God there is basketball to talk about again!!
by NugzD on Dec 2, 2011 10:20 AM MST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed on all points
I hope Ty and Gallo rack up the points, Mozgov turns into a force, and we lose every game by 5 points.
Here’s to getting a superstar in next year’s draft that wants to develop with our young, talented core instead of being a part part of a “Big 3.”
No one else can provide what Nene does?
That’s false. Nene historically has produced 13 and 7, been soft, and disappears for long stretches. Farried will probably double his rebounds, and we haven’t even seen what Moz is capable of.
Great article Nate
It would something if we were to sign Deandre Jordan away from the Clippers, and we’d be a really tall team
MOZGOD Member #35
Does anyone know,
if Nuggets are allowed to write incentives into contracts anymore? If Nene hit 16pt, 8rb for the next 4 years I wouldn’t mind him making 15 mil a year. Especially with what he provides defensively and efficiency wise.
Like how Marcus Camby had incentives for games played and whatnot? Yes, I’m sure you can still build some in … so long as the agent and player agree to them.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
We have to spend money
would you rather spend money on mediocre talent that would likely secure us the 12-14th pick in the draft? Or should we make a major play for big time free agents. Its time to make big offers to Gasol and Nene, the only two desirable free agents. Front load the deals so that if teams were to match it would put them in the luxury tax the first few years and then we would have some flexibility in years 3-4.
Lets say we give Gasol 4 years 58 million, years 1-2 18 mil per, years 3-4 11 mil per.
We have to spend the money now so its not a big deal, plus if he doesn’t work out what team wouldnt want to trade for him in years 3 and 4 at 11 mil per year?
At the end of the day we’re not a bad enough team to “bottom out”. I’ll take proven talent over mid first round picks and journeyman nba players any day.
I’m not entirely sure if you can frontload NBA contracts; I need to look that up. It would be sweet to have Gasol and Nene with Moz and Faried coming off the bench.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions
Ya, I remember that last season. He made like $14M … not sure how that totally works.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
Because NBA contracts are percentage "raise" based I'm not entirely sure you can
“front load” a contract. However, at the end of a contract you can “bonus” a player if you so choose. Imma have to do more studying on that one though.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:19 AM MST up reply actions
Pretty sure you can front load
the limit applies to raises, but I don’t think there is any restriction on paying a guy $12 million in the first year, then lower salaries in the later years. That is exactly how I expect the nuggets to get to the floor this year, if they even do, by massively front loading Aflallo’s contract.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
Nene throws out the religious praise as much as Tebow...
Wonder why divine intervention doesn’t hit Nene in the 4th quarter the same way. Nonetheless, I would overpay Nene only if that meant putting Nene at power forward. If Nene continues to play center while Mozgov and Koufos sit at the end of the bench, I would rather see Nene walk.
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by margabelle on Dec 2, 2011 10:44 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I'm Wondering
What would be so bad about paying Nene 12-14 mil per year for the next 4 or 5 years. Like the article states, we have to get to the salary floor anyways, and even if it did turn into a “bad” contract down the road that is really the only one we have (except for Fatty Al…but I’m pretty convinced he gets amnestied either this year or next). Is the main issue that we have virtually no chance of signing him because of “disrespect”?
He's going to ask for, and get, more than 12-14
That is the problem. At tfaulk, I question whether Nene or Gasol are “big time” FA. C. Paul, probably, D. Howard, definately…but those guys are not sniffing around Denver next year or asking to be traded to Denver this year.
Ugh with the Nene hating
Since when have big men taken over in the fourth quarter? A big man’s effectiveness does not come from putting up points. The stats don’t lie—the Nuggets are astonishingly better when Nene is on the court, and that’s with an elite-level garbage man backing him up.
I’m sick of everyone using bulk stats when judging Nene’s worth, because it tells very little of the story. Nene is the rare player who doesn’t do anything at an elite level, rather he is “good” at everything and is without weakness. Those types of players are often underrated by fans, but there’s a reason why the entire league is salivating at the opportunity to get Nene.
He needs to be offered the max. If they don’t offer that they might as well go into full rebuilding mode.
I agree completely with your assessment
However, if he doesn’t want ti ne here REGARDLESS of $$$ than we might as well start the grieving process now
by JBnuggs on Dec 2, 2011 10:56 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think that's the case
I think a lot of it is posturing by the Nene camp. He wants a long-term deal, and I’m quite sure he’d stay if offered the right amount.
I just don’t see why everyone is so quick to disband a team that was on pace for 60+ pythag wins last year, especially when that team was thrown together and is YOUNG. It makes no sense!
I think we all have to keep in mind that Gallo has supposedly been looking even better in Europe
and he may start blossoming in to that “guy” that the FO wants.
There is a small chance that if the Nuggets play this right they may end up with a better team than we think. AAA is coming back because he’s restricted…The Nuggets actual talent seems to be pretty good (and Faried can contribute boards and defense)
MAYBE it isn’t as bleak as we think it is.
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Agreed
The Nuggets are a very young group overall, which is why I HATE losing their best player without a fight. We’ve all been down that road before, and it’s all but impossible to recover from. I think people unfairly look at how they were bounced from the playoffs last year and think this team can’t win. Hogwash. They ran bad with respect to injuries, they ran bad with respect to bounces and calls. It was a competitive series, and may have gone differently with a healthy Aflalo, Mosgov, etc…
Well...in order to win in the playoffs they need a player that can will them to win
I know for a fact that the FO is heavily counting on Gallinari to be that guy. I talked to some guys who saw Gallo play in Italy and they all said that he’s taken a big step forward. So maybe that guy is already on the roster.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:13 AM MST up reply actions
I'm excited about Gallo
but worried about the “blossuming” in the euro league. It may be that league just fits his style better than the NBA. It certainly was true of Melo on the U.S. national team. International Rules, Melo might be the best player in the world.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
is Nene our best player?
Lets say you were the gm of an expansion team and in some crazy scenario you could pick any one guy off of the Denver Nuggets. Would that pick be Nene? I’m just curious as to how many people would choose him
I think it’d either be Nene or Gallo. Probably Gallo if I were building a team since he’s younger. Tough call though.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:16 AM MST up reply actions
Are they starting from scratch? Who else is available?
It would depend on that expansion team’s circumstances. It might be Nene or Gallo, but it might also be Afflalo. Hell, if they only needed an enforcer with other potential upside to complete their puzzle, it might be Faried.
In other words, this question may not be the best way to reframe the who’s-the-best-on-the-team question.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 3, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
Jeff, what does a max contract for Nene look like?
I’m under the impression is could be about 18 million a year.
No disrespect to Nene (at the expense of offending rxmart), but there are only a few players (well, perhaps 10-15 players) in the league worth that cake, in my opinion.
I’m optmiisitc even if they have to rebuild…lots of money, good core and good picks will eventually result in a very good team..if played right.
I do question GK’s future though…off topic
by Pusherman on Dec 2, 2011 11:05 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
uhhh, Nene is a top 15 player
Especially when you factor in positional scarcity. And a max is not nearly that much with this years CBA. We’re only talking about a difference of 2-3 mill/year from what has already been offered.
Just curious
But do you consider Nene a center or a PF?
It would be roughly 18 million because he's entering his tenth season (max contract would have been 22 mil under previous agreement)
I don’t see the Nuggets offering him more than 13 million….however there’s an outside chance they may go to 14 mil a year.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions
14 million
I could stomach…with a little indigestion.
FYI – ESPN ( not that it really matters) ranked Nene as 31. 1 ahead of Joe Johnson, 1 behind Bynum…5 behind Marc Gasol. Lots of MVPs in their top 15. 31 sounds about right. Just sayin’.
by Pusherman on Dec 2, 2011 11:23 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
sounds about right to me
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:25 AM MST up reply actions
$14 million
is about what D. Wade made last year…
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 1:06 PM MST up reply actions
But
D Wade will make about 18 mil/year over the life of his contract, on average…and he took a “discount” to play with LePout and Bosh. Bosh will make more the D Wade over the life of his deal and I think almost everyone will agree…that is crazy.
14-15Mil is managable for a big man . .
I’d guess the guys over 6’10 with inside beef, get a 10-20% bump on their contract.
Pure supply and demand as you get farther and farther for average athletic size, there are few and fewer skilled players to choose from.
If Gallo becomes that player
I am going to litter this site with 100000000 “I told you so” comments.
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Lopez_Nuggets Aaron J. Lopez
Free agent Anthony Carter says he’s not sure where he’ll play this season but would welcome return to #Nuggets.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:04 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
So Karl could play
Ty, Dre AND AC at the same time!
CHAMPIONSHIPS HERE WE COME!
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by CombatChuk on Dec 2, 2011 11:09 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
I'd like it if we brought AC back
As long as it’s for a third pg role.
might be a good thing for short 1 yr. contract

by InboundingLobPass on Dec 2, 2011 12:29 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You know what. Why the hell not!
We might not have anyone else…..insurance never hurts…
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Nate
Love the Days of Lives reference! My roommate in college got me hooked and I watched religiously for about 9 years…and no, I’m not ashamed!
As far the Nuggets go, I would like them to bring back AAA and then throw the bank at M. Gasol. How about a front line of Gasol, Mozgov and Gallo, with Birdman, Faried and Koufos coming off the bench?
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Good for you, 9 years is a good run!
Who would play PF? Mozgov? That’d be crazy, crazy enough to work?
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 11:14 AM MST up reply actions
My question is...
would you all rather see Gallo playing PF or SF? I personally would like to grab another PF if Nene is out and play Gallo at SF. Speaking of Nene playing out of his position as he is a natural PF, I think Gallo is a natural SF and that’s where he is best. Also, like Nate pointed out a front line with Gallo at SF, Jordan (or someone similar) at PF, and Moz at C could cause a lot of problems for opposing teams.
I would LOVE to see Nene at PF and let Moz or Kouf play center
but I’m not convinced Karl would play Nene anywhere but center.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
yep
If Nene is here, and GK is here, Nene is the C. Frustrating.
by Pusherman on Dec 2, 2011 11:29 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm the Hater
Get rid of George right now?
Let him be the Spokesperson for his charities full time.
What about Tyson Chandler?
I would really love to play Nene along Tyson . . .and Chandler is supposed to be a great locker room guy. Only 29 years old. Can’t see it happening but a frontline rotation of Nene, Chandler and Moz would be sweet.
So . . .
We have something in the 30M left under the cap . .
Picture offering both Nene and Tyson matching 4 year 60mil contracts, renounce Big Al and use that room to match/offer AAA his 8 mil. To add a little flexibility you could front load Nene/Tyson and back load AAA.
I like it.
Give Moz 15-20 a night too at C and let Bird and Faried battle for minutes at PF and Faried a little time at SF too.
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Can't coach or teach height . . .
Would be fun to have too much size on the play instead of too many pg.
Teams would run on that lineup all day
And I think Jordan is being overrated a good deal. He’s not that good at this time.
Building your team through free agency
Is usually a recipe for failure. Exceptions being if you are able to get true max worthy type players.
Denver, like many teams will only be able to second tier players… will have to overpay for them, and hope that they become stars.
I really hope we can bring back Afflalo, but if Nene walks I would be disappointed if we spent a large part of our cap elsewhere. This free agency class, as a whole isn’t worth it.
by nugzin2040 on Dec 2, 2011 11:28 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
What about a Nene sign-and-trade?
They left that in the CBA; why not use it? Give Nene anything he wants, and take control of the bidding war. Whose more experienced at that than our Front Office? Coupla young players…picks…cash. Opens up a whole new realm of possibilities, no?
Nemo me impune lacessit
by 1ArmedEconomist on Dec 2, 2011 11:30 AM MST reply actions
Does that work for Unrestricted FA?
I think that is the problem there, but I am still trying to understand it all…
Yes, you can still S&T unrestricted FAs
But the only times a S&T happens is when the team a player wants to go to is over the cap, the player wants that “extended/better” contract that only the team with bird rights can give, or the player is a restricted FA (and thus unable to really choose his destination). Since the 3rd point doesn’t apply to unrestricted FAs, one of the first two would have to work.
Say, for instance, Nene wanted to go to Miami. They can’t sign him straight up, unless Nene would go for the MLE, so some kind of sign and trade would have to be worked out (although I don’t think they have enough to give us currently without giving up the Big 3, but for the sake of this example let’s say they do.)
However, if Nene wanted to go to somewhere like Sacramento, who has the cap space to sign him outright, he can basically ditch us and sign with them, and we’re left with nothing.
So here’s the 3 options I’m seeing right now for a S&T to work.
1. Nene has to want to go to a team over the cap (or isn’t under the cap enough), like Miami, NY, etc.
2. Multiple teams (technically we’d just need more than 1) need to offer Nene the max, and at least one would need to be willing to pay him the “bird-right max”. This also takes into account that Nene would actually care about that extra year+extra cash and not just accept the regular max.
3. Nene would at least feel some remorse/sympathy for the team that he spent his entire career with and demand that whatever team signs him at least sends a pick or something over to us in a S&T.
Decide for yourself how likely these options are. If I’m forgetting any, someone let me know.
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Just an idea to explore
If Nene could go somewhere he wants AND get 5 years and bigger raises, why wouldn’t he play ball with us. NJN hinted they would offer Lopez and some pretty good picks for Howard. Howard will never play in NJ. Would they default to Nene? I don’t know, but that just one example. Are there other combinations that work?
Nemo me impune lacessit
by 1ArmedEconomist on Dec 2, 2011 12:40 PM MST up reply actions
Only reason NJ is offering to trade for DH is because he's not a free agent.
NJ can sign Nene outright.
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I agree with the obvious rationale you present
But I think you missed my point. Nene has publicly stated 1) That he wants a change, and 2) that any Bird-rights contract advantage will not sway his decision…he has all the money he needs. Yet, every team out there knows we can make him a better offer with an extra year of guaranteed money. And if you think his agent is not going to use that as a negotiating tool, you’re naive.
Right now, my reading indicates up to 7 potential suitors. Say it comes down to two or three offering roughly the same 4 year contracts. We tell Nene’s agent that the Nuggets are willing to participate in sign-and-trade talks. Nene leverages that into a bidding war, testing which team wants him most; and they come back to us with sign-and-trade offers.
The Nuggets are perfectly passive in this, We have a standing, say, $60-70 million/5-year contract on the table. Nene takes it, or walks away with a 4-year contract for perhaps less. Who knows what might fall out of the sky in a bidding war?
Nemo me impune lacessit
by 1ArmedEconomist on Dec 2, 2011 11:23 PM MST up reply actions
Ya, I definitely think his agent will try to get Nene to be reasonable and take a big money offer. It’ll be very interesting to see what he does. I just don’t really see Nene, who seems to want to play for a winner, willing to do a sign-and-trade with NJ if it’s going to weaken that team to the point that he should just stay here.
I do like your point though and I hope that if Denver does lose him that they can work something to get something back in return … not sure it’ll happen though. I also might be looking at just worst case scenario, obviously.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:19 AM MST up reply actions
Ken Berger alludes to what I'm talking about, so take hope
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/33630695?source=rss_blogs_NBA
If Nene bolts, Denver is projected to have the most cap room in the league next season — nearly $39 million, and more if they amnesty Al Harrington between now and then. They have their own first-round pick in 2012 and ’13, and could wind up with more if Nene departed via the sign-and-trade route.
Nemo me impune lacessit
by 1ArmedEconomist on Dec 3, 2011 12:03 PM MST up reply actions
Good points
Plus, look at the David Lee sign and trade last year. Guy coming off a 20-12 year, much better than Nene has ever produced, and all they got back were three scrubs.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 1:08 PM MST up reply actions
When can we start signing guys? Next Fri?
This stupid speculation is going to last another week. It’s like Melo all over again
Isn't talking about this much better than talking about BRI and revenue sharing?
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
When I used to play videogames, I much preferred the off-season over playing the actual games. But there wasn’t really a waiting period, so I feel your pain about the speculation game. But it could be more fun than the actual results, so enjoy it while it lasts … if you can!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
The best thing
about the off-season in video games was the big names didn’t care what market they played in. They weren’t concerned with marketing themselves, or where their wives wanted to live. If only it was like that in real life.
by Chadwork on Dec 2, 2011 4:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with the sentiment
That we should not spend money on the free agents if Nene does not sign with us. Better to just suck this year and get a top 10 next off season.
by CloudBurst on Dec 2, 2011 11:40 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
My Plan
Plan 1 – Offer Gasol $12m/year, Nene $12+/year, AAA whatever is left. Probably not a Campionship team, but this keeps Denver relavent for a few more years
Plan 2 – If Memphis matches, let Nene walk (or Sign & Trade if that makes him happy), and offer AAA more. Expect to be in the Lottery the next couple of years, and hope the balls bounce Denver’s way (right after pigs fly). Trade cap space for draft picks.
Just trying to Comprehend...
Could we potentially rework contracts of current players to front load them? ie… move a few million from later years to this year. Players would still get same amount but some would come sooner… freeing up cap space later when there are better Free agents available and still reaching the floor this year. Probably WAY too out of the box… just a thought.
I don’t expect a GREAT team this year, but with just the current players we have and AAA, I think they will be FUN to watch develop for a year. And more losses would just mean better draft pics.
Yeah, players would need to be willing to do that,
And it’s rare that any do. Usually those that do so are the ones that are nearer the ends of their careers (and I’m talking almost at retirement), because there’s a rule in the CBA (or there was in the old one) that whenever a player is up for a new contract, the maximum amount that they can receive is based upon how much they made in the last year of their contract and how many years they’ve been in the league (or something to that effect).
Players like Gallo, Ty, Wilson, J.R., etc. would never do that because it hinders their chances at their “next big contract”.
Or this is what I think is true. I’m kinda iffy though so correct me if I’m wrong.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
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Amazing...
I am a math teacher… Good up to high level calculus… but this contract stuff makes my head hurt. :)
Well I'm not even taking Calculus until next semester. xD
I just read a LOT of articles on the NBA. I learn these things from those who’re actually smart enough to understand them, haha.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
You actually cannot re-work contracts ... unless it is to give a guy a raise.
Not sure you can shuffle the money around and you for sure can’t re-work to lower the overall amount. But not sure if you can do any of this frontload business.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
Didn't Richard Jefferson rework his deal to take less money?
Or did he just take a paycut on a new contract?
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Paycut on a new contract
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions
Nene
is gone. AAA will be back. As far as trying to commit large money and years to players like DeAndre Jordan or Thadeus Young? I mean maybe but I wouldn’t do it that way. I would sign a bunch of 1 yesr deals with free agents…. maybe you could get David West at a 1 or 2 year deal that will get you at the Cap but won’t strap you for the future. I would take that route and try to develope the youngsters as well as look at the possibility of looking for a player like Sullinger or Barnes etc in the draft next year. Am I saying tank the season? No. Im just saying put a team on the court that meets the 85% mark and then build from there… I feel giving that kind of money to a player like Tahdeus Young would just hurt this team and keep it right in the middle of the pack for a while. This team needsw to establish another star from a draft. Maybe AAA can turn into the next Chris Paul or Gallo the next Dirk and if thats the case then a Young signing would be ideal but as of now I would not commit that kind of money to a player like that.
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by NastyNessy71 on Dec 2, 2011 11:59 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I think David West is likely looking for some guaranteed years since he’s coming back from injury. I would expect there to be a bigger market for him than a 1 or 2 year offer. But I hear what you are saying overall about getting some guys in just for this season.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 12:23 PM MST up reply actions
coming back from injury
should frighten potential suitors more than anything shouldn’t it? Maybe he’d try a 1-2 year contract as a tryout deal for like 8 or 9 mil per maybe even a little more just because the amount of years.
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Perhaps. I think it’ll take him 1-2 years to get back to being himself. I’m not a fan of David West’s game though. Not very athletic and does most of his work away from the basket.
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yea that's true
but Denver is going to need scoring and West definately brings that.
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If we need to spend $
And Nene is not coming back (although I’m still hoping he does), than what about looking at locking up Gallo, Lawson and AAA long-term right now? I know we can keep Lawson and Gallo on the cheap right now, but a pre-emptive move would keep us from having this same conversation about Lawson and Gallo a year from now. I’d rather overpay those guys now and lock them up through their prime then have them leave feeling “disrespected” in a year. Plus, give those guys another year to develop and the Lakers and Bulls fo the world will be “lusting” for their talents and the grass will start looking greener. Can contracts be rennogiated before their completion as is done in the NFL?
I don’t think overpaying is good business, but I also don’t think any first tier FA is going to come to Denver in the near future if Lawson, Gallo and AAA are gone. Let alone Nene. And I think all three of those guys will develop into 10$M/year plus players anyways.
Supposing Nene is gone but AAA, Lawson and Gallo are locked up I think the Nugs will be just bad enough to get a quality draft pick next year but wiill have a core to build around – and that other players would want to be a part of. I’d rather see this than paying 1 year contracts to the likes of David West and Carl Laundry.
That was part of the big argument about this new CBA. A guy like Derrick Rose having to play out his rookie deal before he could get a payday … even if he was the reigning NBA MVP. I do think that guys have to reach certain dates with their rookie deals in order to be extended. Not totally sure though. And locking up Lawson and Gallo now would go against what we have seen the Nuggets do the last few seasons … thus why we are in the Nene leaving mess in the first place and AAA being a Free Agent too.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 2, 2011 12:26 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
The Nuggets FO (ie: Enos and Josh) need to look at themselves and realize
their pattern of handling their own players the way they have is hurting their chances of retaining players.
Extending earlier is a way an organization says they trust a player. They need to stop with the waiting till the very last moment because it hurts the team.
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by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 2, 2011 12:32 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Agree...but isn't this a Stan the Man thing
…he is still in charge. He likes players to play out their deals.
by Pusherman on Dec 2, 2011 1:11 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
oh he's definitely still in charge
But isn’t he supposed to be out of the picture legally? Kinda wish he was
they're just gun shy
Thanks to Kmart
by InboundingLobPass on Dec 2, 2011 2:08 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
AKA
the mistake that cost the nuggets a legitimate shot at a title.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 2:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Couple of points...
Ahead of a likely strike won’t be a typical situation.
It still does take two to tango.
Although
I don’t blame them for at least waiting on the Melodrama before offering a contract to Nene. A lot of their future with Nene was dependent on the type of haul they could get for Melo. Still, it didn’t make much sense to let it linger once the Melo deal was done. :(
random thought
Von Wafer as a backup 2? I think Hamilton is more of a 3 and we’re gonna need someone to backup AAA.
If we're throwing Von Wafer out there
…I’m going to pitch in the Reggies as cheap one year options.
Williams, of Golden State, as back up SG and Evans, of Mars, as PF. I’ve always liked Evans. He will fill in the crazy void left by JR and K-Mart and grab 29 boards a game.
We had Von Wafer before
Karl wasn’t a fan
We'll Move the Earth for a Title
Roundball Mining Company
twitter.com/skitalicious
but wasn't he a rookie who came up from the d league?
Perhaps he’s matured a bit since then, the guy can definitely score but perhaps its his d that Karl isn’t a big fan of
Full Breakdown of all the new CBA Rules
for the geeks among us.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7303114/everything-ever-want-know-new-nba-labor-deal
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 2:12 PM MST reply actions
Marc Stein on Afflalo
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/33680/arron-is-one-popular-afflalo
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
Puke
but at the end of the day you have to keep your options open
If I never here a keeping my options open quote again, it will be too soon.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 2, 2011 4:32 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks for the link
That was such a good read.
Not that I had forgotten, but it reminds you why we love the guy.
Couldn't help but notice how he refers to the Nugs
in the past tense, as though his time in Denver is over. Hope that’s not the case. I don’t see how the Nugs fail to match any offer he gets.
by Ski Bum on Dec 3, 2011 9:32 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Chris Paul has come to the realization that NY may not be a realistic destination for him.
Could he be destined for Houston? They got picks and space. Maybe the Kings? Would it be crazy for the Nuggs to find out if he’d ever consider signing an extension here? He’s gonna have to settle somewhere.
Whoever makes a trade for him might regret it sooner than we think
I’m guessing he’s gonna be the new Kmart of the NBA….highly over paid throughout his injury riddled career
Yes, his meniscus tear scares me.
Bone on bone rubbing in the knee will result in short career…
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
Most likely
Whereever he is traded, he is going to follow Deron Williams’ route. Play out the rest of his contract, opt out, and then sign for more money then the original extension would allow. The new CBA limited extend and trade contracts so much, that they are going to turn into traded and resign scenarios.
While we're riffing on the soaps...
Let’s take a look at the lyrics of a song crafted from all soap titles. Written by Henry Kaiser and O. Salazar, sung by Richard Thompson, from an old recording called Invisible Means, by John French (Captain Beefheart’s drummer), Fred Frith, Henry Kaiser and Richard Thompson.
To listen, try this mp3 (no video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQeMTlIa7n0
As the world turns
Toward the edge of night
We’ll search for tomorrow
By the guiding light
All my children
Young and restless
One life to live
One day at a time
These are the days of our lives
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 2, 2011 6:47 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
Nice find!
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Found it long ago
I’ve long been a fan of all those musicians. They got together as a sort of supergroup to make two recordings in 1987 and 1990.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 3, 2011 4:22 PM MST up reply actions
And GREAT post today, Nate
As I’ve said many times, this is the place to learn just how much you don’t know about all things Nuggets. And then to learn it all, if only you can keep up and retain it all.
No. More. Stickyball.
SBNation really just has the market cornered on sports analysis right now.
The community here is unbelievable, and every site is run by dedicated bloggers who are not only up-to-date on the news as it happens, but always has great insight on everything that happens. As crazy as it seems, I have all 30 NBA SBNation sites bookmarked, because you can literally find out everything that’s going on for every team on this site. So much great content.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Appreciated!
Glad I’m able to share my passion here with all of you!
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
Thanks Ace.
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:25 AM MST up reply actions
Cap holds
I don’t think It’s been brought up, but if Denver plans to go after a free agent from another team they might have to make some tough decisions as far as getting rid of Bird right’s of some of their own free agents.
Think it’s a given that Denver will not keep K-Mart’s Bird rights, and the $19,000,000 cap hold that comes with it. Same thing with JR and his $10,000,000 cap hold.
Tougher decision on Chandler’s $6.4 million hold though. Don’t want to lose his restricted free agency, but you don’t want him eating that much money on the cap if he’s not going to be coming back until March and you have no intention of signing him. At least that’s how it worked out with the Hawks and Childress…
Ideally, the sooner we know which direction Nene is going so we reduce his $17.4 million hold the better. We would obviously release his Bird right’s if he’s certain he doesn’t want to come back (and is deciding between two or three other clubs).
Worst case scenario is he’s undecided, and Denver is unable to play the free agent market and then Nene decides to sign elsewhere anyways.
Hadn't thought of that, great points!
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
by Nate Timmons on Dec 3, 2011 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
No cap holds for unrestricted FA
We don’t hold cap space for JR or Martin . . they can sign anywhere we have no rights. If we make an offer for 19M that would tie up the cap but that ain’t happening.
I don’t know what the CBA will say about cap holds on players under contract in China but I would bet that as long they can’t break the contract the cap would be available.
There's always holds on unrestricted FA's
Otherwise, it’s too big of a loophole for teams with a lot of free agents. There would be nothing to stop Denver from signing Marc Gasol, Caron Butler and Arron Afflalo.. and then going over the cap to sign Nene.
Can’t say for sure how it will work for Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and K-Mart… but in the last CBA there was a hold on players in similar situations.
Course Denver can release those holds, but they’d lose their Bird rights to do so. Chandler’s the only player I can see us keeping his rights, and that’s only if Denver thinks he either has a future with the team or they can net something for him in a trade.
AAA
I just want an extention with our insurance coverage.
Crouching moron, hidden smarta**
Optimism, pessimism, F*CK THAT; we're gonna make it happen. As God as my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work.
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point."
Masai Ujiri, Brian Cashman: Magnificent Bastards
Per Sam Amick at SI
According to sources, Nene, Chandler and Gasol all set their early asking prices in the neighborhood of maximum-contract territory, starting at $14.8 million for Gasol, $17.7 annually for Nene, and $20.7 million for Chandler.Man, I really do hate the thought of losing Nene but if some teams are willing to take one last shot at the Stupid Bar, then it is what is is. Good luck my friend.
by TakeFive on Dec 3, 2011 4:44 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Decent Bigs aren't the rare commodity that they once were.
For example, Ibaka was the 24th pick in 2008. DeAndre Jordon was the 5th pick of the 2nd round
in that same draft.
Others have noted their enthusiasm for Mosgov above. I was also impressed with the gritty, hustle play of Koufas. Both were picked up for a song.
Ever since I “noticed” Ibaka a couple of years ago… I just love his style and contribution. Personally, that’s where I’d spend my money. Regardless there will be better options in the future.
Good News Is...
If Nene wants that kind of money it will likely only come via a sign and trade. 10-12 a year sounds about right for Nene. 17.7 sounds an awful like the Kmart deal…
20 for chandler is fucking insane...
imho he’s the least desirable of the three…and neither gasol or nene is worth 20 either.
now that the dust is settling, it seems the lockout hasn’t changed a damn thing in terms of foolish gms awarding max contracts to players that are merely above average.
collective nba seasons between gasol (3), chandler (10), nene (9)=22
collective all star appearances between gasol, chandler, nene=0
by calvin brodus on Dec 3, 2011 8:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
They already have so much salary after giving z-bo and gay max contracts
I don’t think they can match 15 million for gasol, and if they do we should try riping Mayo out of their hands. He’s making another 5 million
game theory
they will say that even if it’s not true to scare others off. It’s in their interest to talk big no matter what their real intentions are. So it really shouldn’t deter anyone. Let’s give it a shot.
by Rainbow skyline on Dec 3, 2011 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
I said this exact thing earlier in this post
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 3, 2011 7:13 PM MST up reply actions
Hawks will feel damn lucky
that they snapped up Horford for 12mil per. I would have given him max money before those three
New Zealand #1 Nuggs fan
Before Nene? Crazy talk.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Dec 4, 2011 10:11 AM MST up reply actions
Not at all.
I’d take Nenasty over Horford any day.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
interesting
may I ask why?
Horford has no injury history, is younger and has already been an all-star multiple times.
So, the Nuggets start the season with b/b games against the Suns
Dec. 20/22. Two teams that likely will be fighting over getting a higher draft slot.
20th-preseason
22nd-opener
by InboundingLobPass on Dec 3, 2011 1:08 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
facepalm
Season starts Xmas so yeah…
Why play two preseason games against the same team?
by InboundingLobPass on Dec 3, 2011 1:15 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
nba decided to have 2 preseason games
against the same geographic opponent for proximity reasons.
Too early to guess that
We don’t know what our roster will look like. And what if ty, gallo, and afflalo all have break out seasons at once. We won’t be fighting for a lotto pick.
That could very well happen
Add Mozgov to that list too. And just picture in your mind “Miller to Faried for the monster jam!” And Hamilton has serious potential. The Nugs, for their relatively low picks, simply rocked the draft.
Because they are not far off from being in the thick of things, it’s all the more reason to try to get another pick via Nene sign and trade if at all possible.
Stupid Snow!!
that is all
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
I know
And none of it had the decency to fall on good places to ski, it’s all down here in the metro area and front range. Come on, Ullr, give the mountains some love, and spare us the shoveling down here!
yes sir
Wolf Creek has a 56" base and has gotten 131 inches so far this year.
The winter was rocking here in Alaska.
A couple feet of fresh dry powder at Alyeska last week. And now we’ve been hit by a freaking monsoon. 42 degrees and pouring rain. Enough to make me cry!
Where in Alaska are you again?
I think you said so once, but I’m curious.
I used to live in Homer for about 5 years. Yay!
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
If only this guy was on the market.

Crouching moron, hidden smarta**
Optimism, pessimism, F*CK THAT; we're gonna make it happen. As God as my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work.
"This team is going to win a Super Bowl at some point."
Masai Ujiri, Brian Cashman: Magnificent Bastards
His name is Al Harrington...
Just substitute hamburgers for cookies and we’re golden.
Jason Hammel : Feared Slugger was /2011'd
BigGiantHead of the Ubaldo Lover's Club;OG Thugget Loyalist #4, QPU Emeritus, Proud member PR Gynocracy
or Kenneth Faried
substitute rebounds for cookies!
Interesting link
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/06/21/nuggets.moves.ap/index.html
AAA, Forbes, and Chandler all have contract offers on the table from the nuggets
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 3, 2011 7:17 PM MST reply actions
nice find
I have a feeling the FO will have to revise their offer to Afflalo in a couple of days…
by InboundingLobPass on Dec 3, 2011 8:03 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
That's interesting. I didn't notice that.
I wonder why it was posted under recent news on the NBA web site
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Dec 3, 2011 8:58 PM MST up reply actions
so
basically we offered them their QO’s back in June.
What about Luc Richard Mbah a Moute?
Not thrown out there very often, but he would seem to fit in with what we’re trying to build here. Highly regarded as a great defender of SG’s, SF’s and PF’s, one of the hardest workers in the league, and isn’t going to create any problems in or out of the locker room.
He can’t shoot an outside shot though… but he’d be someone I’d be okay with Denver overpaying a bit to get. The luxury of having two lockdown defenders at different junctions in the game, would be freaking awesome.
And if we tank like many expect, bringing in a star rookie to a team full of hardworking badasses would only rub off on him as well. Kinda like how Derek Rose has taken on the personality of some of the defensive minded players in Chicago.
Net's fans were talking about him too (along with everybody else)
But they pointed out his attributes and attraction also.
Had heard the Nets were interested in him
But hadn’t heard about any other team showing him a lot of interest (other then Milwaukee obviously). Just surprised he hasn’t been mentioned more anywhere…
And honestly, have no idea how much money we’d have to offer to get him.
i'm a huge Mbah a Moute fan
great defender who never asks for a play to be drawn up for him.
REPORTS:
Shane Battier is looking to be signed by the Miami Heat.
It will be hard not to hate Battier now, but he deserves a title.. but not at the cost of Lebron getting his.
Battier deserves a title??
I could think of a bunch of guys that deserve one before him.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Dec 4, 2011 10:14 AM MST up reply actions
Grant Hill.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Dec 4, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
"Deserves a title"?!
Players who “deserve” titles are those who play on championship-caliber teams. Surely nobody deserves a title because of how well they play or what fine human beings they are. What would that even mean?
I have no doubt that it means fans who utter such things have great respect for the player(s) in question. And that’s wonderful. I, too, am a huge fan of Steve Nash and his tremendous game, and I appreciate the latter-day Grant Hill. And sure, Shane Battier is one of those guys who’s easy to root for, with the reasons being obvious. Yet that doesn’t mean they deserve anything, especially not an NBA championship.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 4, 2011 6:12 PM MST up reply actions
George Karl interview, discusses Nene at PF
I’m anxious for my opportunity to recruit him (later this week). I think Nene knows how much I care about him. In a strange way, Nene’s become maybe the most important guy on our team. He’s not a man of big numbers, but he’s a man of big responsibility. I think our young guys need him. We’ve talked a lot (in the past) about how he’d rather play power forward than center, well, I think this is the year he can get that opportunity (with Timofey Mozgov at center). He’s become our veteran leader. I really do think this is the best place for him.
Yikes, this looks like recruiting already
Let’s hope the league doesn’t think so. And it’s about damn time, George, though it may too little too late.
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 4, 2011 6:13 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks skithebert, hadn't caught that
High drama on this one. I have no clue what Nene’s thinking or where is heart is.
Appears he’s going to get all the money, or close.
Apparently D-Will is putting in his plug.
First time we've heard Karl publicly say Nene at PF...like...ever I think
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Dec 4, 2011 10:22 PM MST up reply actions
True dat.... First time the FO has given him the pieces
Though he should have played Mosgov more last year
You know Karl….. hehe.
T-Mac?
First thing we should do is sign the guy to a short contract. He would be our backup at the 2 and 3 spots, but more importantly the third string pg. Opinions on T-Mac? Lets sign him to a 2yr/8m dollar deal. 1st year 6m guaranteed. 2nd year 2m team option. I know karl is going to play Lawson and Miller twenty minutes together, so lawson will get hurt. T-Mac was the PG of the Pistons(stuckey is no PG) and played quite well
Have to agree that McGrady played pretty well at the point for the Pistons
But is he the guy you want on a young team? Can he get through another season 1) without serious injury, and 2) without being a truly amazing asshole, and 3) without poisoning things for young guys like Hamilton?
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Dec 4, 2011 6:17 PM MST up reply actions
I'd do it.
First time posting here. Just like to say this is by far the best blog on SB Nation. All the posters are knowledgeable and active, so good job on creating a great community for Nuggets fan to go to! To the point… I’d sign T-Mac under similar conditions JBnuggs pointed out. I have the same concerns as KarlFanHenry, though. The guy has always been a “cancer” (Sorry Villanueva) in the locker room. Pretty selfish guy. He can still run an offense, though, and a positive T-Mac could be beneficial to some of the younger guys. That’s a big if, though.
One more thought, I love how Karl doesn’t even mention Faried’s name when discussing starting PFs in the article posted above. Sigh, doesn’t Karl know the best way to groom rookies is to let them play?
by NPG on Dec 4, 2011 9:18 PM MST up reply actions
Welcome to D.S. NPG!
I think Karl will really like Faried and I think he’ll get a lot of run this season. But ya, I don’t see him starting either.
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
In Spite of the Thrill
I hope/expect the Nuggets to largely stand pat.
Resign Afflalo but Nene’s likely gone.
Sign a couple of 1-2 two year players
Does anyone know...
When do we have to be at the “cap floor”… meaning, if we wait and resign Chandler or JR (or Kenyon, just to make some of you gag) in March when they can sign, will those salaries count to our cap?
Also, what happens if we DON’T get to the floor? Is there a “Poverty Tax”?
I don’t believe the Nuggets have to be at the cap floor until after the trade deadline. If they don’t get there I believe the team has to just pay out the amount they are under, not sure if there is any penalty to it.
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
I like the idea of DeAndre Jordan
much rather give all that money to a younger player
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Clippers are apparently offering him a 5-year $40 million deal that he will sign.
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
lets offer 5 years $45 million
dang…………..I like Jordan’s potential
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 6, 2011 9:01 AM MST up reply actions
I spoke too soon, he wants more $$ and can get bigger deals.
he will sign a bigger $ deal some think and force the Clips to match it or he’s gone. How much more than $8 million per season would you wanna pay?
Nate_Timmons on Twitter
DenverStiffs.com
Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
not a whole lot
I would go maybe 10-11$ range for Hyland DeAndre Jordan. As his minutes per game increases his production has increased along with it at a good rate. He is only 23 years old where Nene is 29 and does have a history with injuries and cancer. I don’t know it could be a big risk for a guy who hasn’t really proven a whole lot and can only really dunk. I like the potential but its hard to shell out that kinda cash for potential.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
by waterboy31321 on Dec 6, 2011 3:20 PM MST up reply actions

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