The new CBA: Good or bad for the Nuggets?...
Now that the details of the NBA's new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) have emerged, it's time to ask: will this new world order of the NBA be good or bad for our Denver Nuggets?
I've long told friends that I don't foresee the Nuggets winning a championship in my lifetime. (Hell, we're the only ABA holdover that's never even appeared in an NBA Finals.) This isn't because I don't believe in the stewardship of Josh Kroenke and Masai Ujiri, each of whom I've gotten to know well and I have great confidence in for the future of our franchise. In fact, if ever the Nuggets will compete for a championship it's now with these two astute basketball junkies at the helm.
But rather, I still believe that the "system" of the NBA puts small market teams at a continued, although less severe thanks to the new CBA, disadvantage. As long as big market teams don't have to share a substantive portion of their local revenue (as they do in Major League Baseball but not the NBA) and can poach stars from smaller markets via trade-and-signs (a clause preserved in the new CBA), the more things appear to have changed over Thanksgiving weekend the more they stayed the same. It's no secret that the NBA has had just nine franchises win a championship since 1980, and I suspect one of those nine - the Lakers, Heat, Bulls, Mavericks or Celtics - will be in possession of the Larry O'Brien Trophy next summer.
From my vantage point, the new CBA basically boils down to the owners reclaiming a much higher percentage of basketball-related income (BRI) than what they were entitled to under the previous CBA combined with marginal changes to guaranteed contracts, extend-and-trades and limitations on player exceptions that still allow players to hijack their franchises via forced trades and owners to be stupid with their spending (but not quite as stupid as they were before). According to the always amazing Larry Coon of ESPN.com, "a new plan approximately triples the amount of money that is revenue-shared" is on the way, but this skeptical small-market fan will believe it when he sees it.
So in lieu of knowing exactly how the NBA's new revenue-sharing plan will shake out, let's look at Coon's dissection of the new CBA and analyze how each piece of the agreement will affect our Denver Nuggets - for good, or for bad.
Amnesty Provision
The Gist: One player, signed under the previous CBA, can be waived prior to the season commencing on December 25th. The balance of the player's contract - minus whatever another team pays him - must be paid out, but it doesn't affect the salary cap. Interestingly, the amnesty provision doesn't have to be used this year, although I'm not sure when the provision expires.
How this affects the Nuggets: When you think "Amnesty Clause" a Nuggets fan immediately thinks "Al Harrington."
Some call him "Big Al" for being so overweight last season. Others refer to him as "Mark Warkentien's Revenge." Regardless, by any objective measure Harrington was a marginal contributor last season. But Nuggets head coach George Karl insisted that Harrington was integral to the team's success, Harrington has a great personality and locker room rapport with teammates and - allegedly - has been getting himself into impeccable shape during the offseason, having been dissatisfied himself with his 2010-11 performance.
That doesn't change the fact that Harrington is owed $27 million (not all guaranteed) over the next four seasons.
But "amnesty-ing" Harrington now may not be a wise move. As we'll get to shortly, under the new CBA teams are obligated to spend 85% of the $58 million salary cap and the Nuggets' current payroll has them at about 50%. And with the Nuggets missing and/or potentially missing several players (Kenyon Martin, Wilson Chandler and Nene) that play Harrington's two positions - power and small forward - keeping Harrington may be a fiscal must in addition to a "devil you know versus the devil you don't know" type scenario.
Luxury Tax
The Gist: Higher penalties for team's that exceed and then greatly exceed the NBA's "tax threshold", anticipated to be in the $68-$70 million range. The theory is that this will curb overspending by teams simply trying to buy a championship, something the Nuggets tried to do in 2007-08 when they assembled an $84 million roster that netted not a single playoff victory.
How this affects the Nuggets: This isn't 2008 anymore and there's no way Josh or Stan Kroenke are going to commit the Nuggets to the luxury tax again, regardless of the new penalty structure. Even before Ujiri showed up, the Nuggets were getting more fiscally prudent by getting a lot of bang out of minimal bucks for players like Dahntay Jones, Chris Andersen, Anthony Carter, Joey Graham and more recently, Arron Afflalo and Gary Forbes.
In theory, tougher tax penalties for big spenders combined with a more robust revenue-sharing system should put the Nuggets on equal footing with the likes of the Lakers, Knicks and Bulls. But I'm skeptical. The cache of wearing a Lakers jersey or playing in a city like New York cannot be matched by the Nuggets. And even though the new tax penalties should be welcomed by fans of small market teams, the new CBA has enough loopholes in it for big markets to sign big stars away from small markets
Additional Limits for Taxpaying Teams
The Gist: Starting in 2013-14, teams over the tax level will have less money to spend on midlevel exception players and cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade deal.
How this affects the Nuggets: Again, this should - in theory - greatly help a small market team like the Nuggets. But midlevel exceptions is where bad Al Harrington contracts come from. So buyer beware!
Stretch Provision
The Gist: A player signed under the new CBA only can have his salary "stretched" out over twice the number of remaining seasons plus one in regards to how it affects the team's salary cap, after he is waived.
How this affects the Nuggets: Where was this clause when we signed Kenyon Martin to one of the worst contracts in NBA history?!
Let's hope the Nuggets don't enter into another bad contract that's even close to K-Mart range, but if they do this clause could come in handy.
New Contracts
The Gist: Teams can re-sign their own player (who has been on the roster for at least three seasons) for five years with 7.5% raises versus only four years with 4.5% raises to poach another team's player via free agency.
How this affects the Nuggets: As we all know, in 2010 the Nuggets were able to offer Carmelo Anthony more guaranteed years than any other team in hopes of retaining him. That wasn't good enough for Melo, and he forced a trade to New York last February. So even though the NBA has reduced the number of guaranteed years and altered the raises, we will still see stars hijack their franchises for greener pastures elsewhere.
It should be noted, however, that this clause is a double-edged sword of sorts. For every Melo, LeBron James and (soon-to-be, just watch) Chris Paul who force a sign-and-trade so that their receiving team retains their "Bird Rights" (the three-year rule), there are Michael Redds who stay on with their small-market team, take the extra guaranteed year plus the raise and then cripple their small-market team financially. Could this happen with Nene? Mark Kiszla sure thinks so.
Extend-and-Trade
The Gist: A team can extend its own veteran player by four seasons but in an extend-and-trade situation (like we saw with Melo going to the Knicks), the receiving team can only extend them for three seasons.
How this affects the Nuggets: Had this been in effect last year, Melo still would have forced his way to New York. Moving forward, a player without Melo's endorsement dollars might have more incentive to stay put and take that fourth guaranteed year.
Midlevel Execption
The Gist: Pending on a team's luxury tax status, the midlevel exception is no longer a one-size-fits-all number for all teams, in theory curbing big spenders' ability to load up their roster with solid veterans surrounding their superstars.
How this affects the Nuggets: Unlikely to ever be a tax-paying team again, this clause probably won't affect the Nuggets much going forward. As a small market franchise, the Nuggets will continually be faced with the difficult decision of overpaying veterans (like Harrington) to attract them to come to Denver and keep the Nuggets competitive. But at least Denver isn't Cleveland.
Trade Rules
The Gist: If a team is under the tax line, they have more flexibility salary-wise with which to make trades - i.e. the salaries don't have to match up within 125% but rather within 150%.
How this affects the Nuggets: Again, by likely not being a tax-paying team the Nuggets should have great flexibility to make trades before the deadline.
The 85% Rule
The Gist: Under the new CBA, NBA teams are mandated to spend 85% of the salary cap, or $49.3 million in 2011-12.
How this affects the Nuggets: This one worries me the most.
At present, the Nuggets total committed salary is just under $29 million meaning they have to somehow come up with another $20 million in salary to get to their 85% mandate. If Nene re-signs at $12 million (regardless of whether we agree or not if he's overpaid) and Afflalo re-signs at, say, $5 million, then a few more veterans combined with rookies Kenneth Faried and Jordan Hamilton's contracts should solve the 85% issue.
However, if Nene does not re-sign with Denver, then what? Are the Nuggets supposed to fill a $10-$12 million void with veterans we don't really want just to get to $49.3 million in total salary? Are those one-year contracts or do they have to be multi-year deals just to get players to come here? To me, the 85% clause makes the will-he or won't-he Nene question the biggest facing our franchise at present.
Needless to say, with the various aspects of the new CBA in place, it's going to be a very interesting few weeks in Nuggets Nation.
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Great article Andrew
I’m mixed on wanting to re-sign Nene to the Nuggets. I’m worried that Nene at 29 years old and his past injury issues (He’s been relatively injury free the past 3 years) could end up being KMart 2.0 for the Nuggets.
MOZGOD Member #35
Spot on, Chuck
I’m a big Nene fan. That being said the offer the Nuggets made after the season of 4 years, $50 million is very fair.
Why is it Denver is only ever mentioned as Small Market by Cheap Owners and their Apologists?
I guess Mrs WalMart money doesn’t go as far as it used to
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Nene and AAA come back please..
Regardless of the what the pessimistic that is Kiszla says, I hope Nene (and AAA) are back in the fold. I would rather sign them, then give a truckload of cash to the current free agent class.
I mean Marc Gasol (restricted too) is maybe attractive.. but is he that much better than Nene? Sign Nene and AAA and hope we can grow a superstar. It won’t be Nene or AAA.. but they do provide a solid foundation.
Thanks for the breakdown!
Stellar article. It is strange that right now the biggest concern is if we don’t get Nene what do we do with $20 million.
So far the majority of the conversation has been directed at the relatively sparse free agent market, what about trades? The Nuggets don’t have tons of pieces to trade but would they be able to put together something that might bring in a better option than what is currently out there in the free agent market?
'"It could happen..."
or the Turkish version "what if it happens..."
One note
The floor percentage goes up to 90% in two seasons….
This seems to be a trend with sports leagues now (the NFL has a similar provision) and it’s put it to prevent, for lack of better term “Avalanche esque” situations where a team camps out at the cap floor for several years and spends far less than your average team. In their next CBA I anticipate the NHL will adopt a similar measure.
I suppose this is a provision sent in my big market teams…essentially saying that you can’t just pocket the new money you are receiving and do nothing with it.
This presents an interesting situation for the Nuggets. I’m quite sure they only planned on spending a around 41 million this season if the cap floor remained the same. That extra 8 million is huge. Presents all sorts of issues.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Nov 29, 2011 10:46 AM MST reply actions
I anticipate this provision forcing a couple teams to a point where they either sell or get contracted
which may be the end result of this anyway.
Overheard during Nuggets radio broadcasts in the 80's: "....Hanzlik.....HEY HANZLIK...don't ever dribble the ball again or I'll bench your ass!" Doug Moe
DenverStiffs.com
Follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/#!/jmorton78
by Jeffrey Morton on Nov 29, 2011 10:52 AM MST up reply actions
True, it definitely is a You Can't Have It Both Ways Deal
The little owners, deliberately cheap, historically bad and habitually uncaring owners complain that they need better revenue sharing and signicant changes in the CBA all in the spirit of “competitive balance”.
And then those owners and their apologists start whining about the having a cap minimum. If you can’t accept a minimum but demand more revenue sharing that does not equal competitive balance.
Put up or shut up and sell so the fans get a fair chance at a real quality product.
And the Avalanche comparison is spot on. That is where your Denver Nuggets would be headed, and may even still end up there. The minimum is in place specifically to protect players from the Enos Kroenke’s and Donald Sterlings of the league.
This isn’t a small market thing, this is a bad owner thing.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
lol @Nene trying to get a Max contract in Free agency...
Time for the Faried and Mozgov ERA from front court dominance to begin!
MOZGOD Member #35
If we bite and offer Nene a 5 year, $60+ million deal, I guarantee you he’s going to need microfracture surgery after year 2. Instead, let’s see if we can pry Marcin Gortat away from the Suns by offering some goodies (maybe some combination of Mozgov, Jordan Hamilton, 1st round picks, and cash) and taking back Josh Childress’ contract…
Hell No
Moz is better than Gortat long term.
by ACEIII on Nov 29, 2011 11:26 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Bo to Gortat.
Maybe for a lesser price, but certainly not trading two promising young players.
Certainly not.
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
i disagree
Id rather move forward without Gortat, testing our new players, than make that trade.
by InboundingLobPass on Nov 29, 2011 3:24 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'm with you on that
find out what you have in Faried(who will beast for SURE) Moz, Ham and Kouf, then make the decision.
Great article Andy, and now I don't have to read the wordy Larry Coon!!!
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Colorado Sports Guys podcast We're on iTunes (free!)
85% rule
I could’ve sworn I read somewhere that if a team doesn’t hit the 85% mark, the players under contract receive more money to reach that 85%. What I’m not sure of, however, is whether that means that all the players’ cap holds increase, or they just receive more money.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
I'd prefer this to wasting money on someone who'd screw up the chemistry of the team...
If we’re winning with what we’ve got, then they deserve a bump.
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
Read the same... Read the rule carefully.
It doesn’t say “salaries” it just says “pay out.” Nothing wrong with protecting salary cap space and then just allocating a nice bonus to a good group… your present players.
See, that was what I was thinking.
If it was possible we could just keep our cap and pay our current player more, developing them, and then being stacked for the 2012 FA. Sign-and-trade Nene for some draft picks too.
But my thinking is that this is way too obvious. I doubting that this was overlooked.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
I'm craving me some draft picks.
Denver could also take on another team’s bad contract to “amnesty” later
If it looked to be a good draft pick, why not?
I think amntesties only work for old CBA signees.
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Nov 30, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
Would Love to See Nene at PF
But, should Nuggs overpay him to stay?? I lean toward saying “yes”. He seems over the injury thing and would be a beast at PF. Plus, he would be very tradeable if things don’t work out. Plus, you just can’t let your best player walk for nothing. It is death for a franchise (see Mutombo debacle).
by ACEIII on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM MST via mobile reply actions
So you're not Mark Kizla in your real life?
Kizla called Nene “Nena”, because I guess he thinks Nene plays like a girl.
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
Nene a beast?
Nene a beast at PF? Because of his great low post move? He catches the ball up high, drops it to his hip, maybe even dribbles it, then gently lays it in. I did not read the kizla article, but i’m assuming that’s what he sees. Or to quote someone’s handle, “Throw it down, big man!!!”.
link
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_19429618
The “Nena” thing looked to be a headline typo, because it’s been corrected.
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
Nene and Mutombo
When your nemesis Jerry Sloan states he has to change his offense when Mutumbo is on the floor, then you have a valuable player. What opposing coach changes anything when Nene is on the floor? I guess bring Kendrick Perkins(!) in to intimate him (mighty successful too, although Mr. Brooks had a little inside info).
Let's not forget or be silly...
Finding solid front court 4’s and 5’s are not easy to do without high draft picks.
No question the Nuggets are better if we can keep Nene right here in the Mile High City.
when Nene leaves
hopefully we can sign and trade him for something and someone to help add some salary. then we could front load Afflalo’s new contract a bit and probably get to the 85 percent mark.
Couple of items
1) There is a modified waiver system for the amnesty players. Interested teams submit bids and the team offering the most salary gets the player. Means amnesty players will only get to go to Miami on a minimum deal if no one else wants them. Also means the nuggets will have a chance to claim a Brandon Roy, if they are interested.
2) If a team is over the luxury tax threshhold at the start of free agency, then they face a hard cap of their current salary plus the midlevel exemption. In the past, a team could exceed the cap by any amount to resign bird right players. Now, taxpayers will be limited to the midlevel, even including bird players. Imagine the scenario of a team like Chicago or LA with a Derrick Rose or Andrew Bynum coming off a rookie deal (I know bynum isn’t on the rookie deal anymore) and their team only being able to offer them $9 million a year when other teams can offer $15. Teams will have to plan carefully, and teams with multiple stars will have much more difficulty keeping the team together.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM MST reply actions
Would it be that awful to offer Nene a Max contract?
If we decide that 13mil/year is fair value, would 2 mil more per year really be that big of a dealbreaker? He knows the system and isn’t a shitty player.
MOZGOD Member #35
Makes sense to overpay a little . .
Given that Denver is not a high profile destination, you need to overpay a little for good players which Nene clearly is. However, you can’t overpay a lot or you hamstring flexibility that Nugs have only just got again. 4 years 15 mil works . . more than that probably doesn’t.
Yes...
It’s not year one at 17.9 overpay. It’s year 3 and 4 at near 21 million. That’s exactly how Juwan Howard got his monster contract.
Nene > Howard
…but your point is taken. To me, you don’t overpay for him. That’s old school thinking that gets a team in a lot of trouble down the road, especially when Ty et.al. want to get paid.
Ty won't see a huge leap
I could see him getting 6-8 million barring any monumental steps forward. Ty comes due the same time as Anderson comes off the books. Not to worried on that side.
But if we have the 30% of our cap dedicated to one player. I don’t want that to be Nene. Love the guy and we do have cap space. But if it’s not spent prudently we’re doomed to repeat the previous regimes issues in a few years.
The thing is though
Even if we’re over the cap when Ty’s time is up, we can keep him no problem. It’s the same process the Grizzlies went through and they’re able to keep their entire core together.
Our problem is that we’re under the cap and we’re having to spend all our money on just bringing back our own guys. There’s virtually no room left to improve the team with outside FAs.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
$12 million?
The Nuggets already offered Nene that, and he was insulted.
We have no idea what it would cost to keep Nene and AAA, which is why there was never any winning strategy for the Nuggets to come ahead in free agency this year. If a team looks like they are rebuilding, walks and talks like they are rebuilding, and costs like they are rebuilding then they are rebuilding. It’s best to embrace it
We'll Move the Earth for a Title
Roundball Mining Company
twitter.com/skitalicious
It's NOT the money that "insulted" him.
Marc Spears has a good article/explanation over @Yahoo.
Therefore you whole premise is flawed.
Alright so we're rebuilding
Faried and Hamilton should get extended burn. Harrington gets another year before he gets amnestied…
PG: Ty/Dre
SG: AAA/Hamilton
SF: Gallo/Harrington
PF: Faried/Birdman
C: Mozgov/Koufos
This should be our core going forward this year. If we really need to come up to the cap floor, let’s start by extending Gallo and Lawson and matching any reasonable offer for AAA
MOZGOD Member #35
There's another pathway here...
This year’s play by Big Al may make his contract seem not so bad. Plus, soon enough,
he can get bought out.
What IF we look to trade for another bad contract that we THEN could amnesty?? May
open some interesting possibilities.
Look how Cleveland made out taking Baron Davis' contract
and getting the #1 pick in this year’s draft.
MOZGOD Member #35
Would talk to Houston about sign and trade
Thabeet + Buddinger or Courney Lee and their #1 and/ NYK #1 for Nene.
If they start to worry about the market from Nene with those other teams we might be able to swing it.
Let the Nene Sweepstakes begein
Thank goodness we can still sign and trade. And the fact so many teams are interested makes me very optimistic we can make a team overpay. But the number one thing we should be looking for is a 1st round pick from a bad team. This year’s draft class is gonna be awesome. Two first rounders – one from a bad team, and our’s (could be low as well considering it will be a development year for our future stars) – and we could end up with a couple of stars!!!
Sign and trades only happen
with players that are being offered the max. Not happening with Nene.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
Celtics are in the process
of trying to sign and trade Big Baby
Okay
so they traded a guy coming off a 20-12 season- something Nene has never approached, every game starter for three scrubs. Woohoo.
Not getting anything of much value of Nene in a sign and trade.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions
Supposedly there are teams rumored to be willing to offer Nene the max.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
Isiah isn't in the league anymore
so that just leaves Minnesotta as the prime suspect.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
Andrew... Let's get something straight. It's time.
Denver may never be L.A, NYC, or even Florida, but we are no longer the
woebegon place of yore. Our stature is now light years better than 20 years ago.
Solid ownership, buzzing, growing city with great “urban” cache. I’m no longer worried
about Denver’s ability to attract players.
Maybe not...
But with Melo gone and Nene walking out the door, it sure looks like Denver can’t keep its promising young players.
I agree, Denver is a city on the ascent, but it is still leagues behind places like NYC, Boston, Chicago and LA when it comes to pro basketball culture.
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
Both Boston and Chicago spent many years struggling
Sure their history and more current situation leads you to believe… but without the luck of getting Derrick Rose – and why were they in a position to get him?
Not to quibble
But Chicago’s basketball culture, like Boston’s, transcends their struggles the past decade. I mean, the Knicks have been turb for ages, but there is still a cachet that comes with playing there.
And, while I dig Denver, I don’t think it is there yet. It’s a great sports town and has positioned itself well with young, active college graduates. But it’s going to take a jolt a to reinvigorate the upper-level basketball culture here. Tanking this season and getting a high lottery pick, might be just the thing.
I don’t think it helps that the people who like basketball the most in this city can’t even afford tickets to most of the games. Doesn’t help that Billips is no longer on the squad.
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
by Fly Agaric on Nov 29, 2011 1:50 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Who can't afford tickets?
There are plenty of uppers for $15 bucks. Family night gets you 4 tickets, four drinks, and 4 pizzas for $60. If you want to get some of the better games, buy a ten pack of the $15 uppers and split it up with your friends, which is what I used to do.
Basketball and baseball tickets are very affordable. It’s not like football where going to a game can easily run several hundred dollars for tickets and food.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
I can afford tickets.
But I know a lot of people who can’t who live around me, and they are some of the biggest basketball fans around: namely young black teens.
Best way to see games for me has always been hanging out at Brooklyn’s, watching the first quarter there and then buying a ticket off a desperate scalper. Sometimes I can get floor level for $20.
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
Hey, thanks for the tip!
No. More. Stickyball.
by LongWindedHank on Nov 30, 2011 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
What evidence would you have to support this?
The biggest free agent denver has signed since massively overpaying Kmart has been Al Harrington. Others were offered money and chose to sign elsewhere. I love Denver and think it is a great city, but NBA players apparently don’t. Hell, they probably won’t even be able to re-sign Nene, and his wife is from here.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
Pretty sure we've been over the cap ever since giving Martin his ridiculous contract
So all we could have offered was a mid-level exception…what big-name free agent have we legitimately competed for and missed out on?
Melo
Now Nene. Chandler doesn’t want to be here.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 2:39 PM MST up reply actions
If you're including guys we've had on the team
then you have to include the fact that both Melo and Nene signed extensions. And Chandler is contracted to China for the year – though the Nuggets wouldn’t offer his shoot first-shoot second mentality anyway
Everyone signs their rookie contract extensions
the lose too much money otherwise.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
How quickly we forget...
Melo’s primary motivation was to not play for a crap, rebuilding team.
Don’t blame him for that. It wasn’t the city but rather the state of the team.
Baloney
His primary motivation was to play in New York, period. The nuggets were a better team than the post trade Knicks. If it had been about basketball, the Denver and Chicago were his two best options. He want New York only.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Nov 29, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
Melo wants a championship and to be part of a BIG 3
That’s why he left. Nene wants a ship as well. That’s why they left. Denver is capable of signing free agents, but has not had the funds to. Yes, we were better than the Knicks post-trade last year, but as I stated, Melo wanted to team up with Amare. I’m sure NY is an attractive piece, but Denver not being a big-market city has not been the issue signing free agents. It’s been our lack of salary cap space.
Lucky for the Nuggets
While Melo was the one getting us to the playoffs, he was and always will be the one who prevents his team from winning the championship. He makes NO ONE better. And as far as Nene leaving, it will be the perfect opportunity for us to hit rock bottom with some very promising players on our team, draft a major talent, and be competitive with any star free agent for the next several years.
That comment is too ridiculous to respond to
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
*free agents beyond 2014
when the teams with high payrolls can’t make a move.
The little-big 3
Any “Big 3” that involves Amare and Melo, will be the little-big 3.
"No D big 3"
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Nov 30, 2011 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
He would have gone to Chicago, but they wouldn't deal
Chicago has Derrick Rose, a good team and great possibilities.
Denver has Great Fans and a team in transition.
I agree with the crap team part of whAt you said and can't comment on the other part
As I wrote in the other post I tied back the WCF and what Melo said after it. He said that the team was close and it needed to move Nene to PF and get a good center. Hmm sounds similar to why nene felt disrespected huh? All of this ties back together. This isnt about $$ for Nene, he know what we see. At PF his number would easily go up from 14/7 to 18/9 or better. The Nuggets only saving grace is the fact that they finally got 2 real centers. Nene will play PFthis year if he returns.
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Nov 29, 2011 7:14 PM MST up reply actions
Bingo!
Apologists and history revisionists keep trying to paint Melo as a money chasing villian. The moment was lost after the WCF when the Nuggets were in only the 2nd window of opportunity in the last 30 years to win a title. They knew what they needed and chose to do nothing but continue to cut costs.
After the trading deadline the following year is when the Nuggets lost Melo. Check the video. Up until that point all of his talk was “we” and “the team”. But after ownership showed their true face, they lost Melo.
And how can you be a luxury tax team and still be a cheap owner? Simple, you acquire KMart during the 98-05 CBA rules. Starting with the 06 CBA per team luxury tax penalties kick in. And from that point on you do not make moves to improve team depth, what deals you do are straight one for one’s (Andre for Iverson, Iverson for Billups) while cutting costs all at the same time. $27mm in tradeable assests (Trade Exceptions, expiring contracts… plus a bevy of future 1st round picks) were spit away because cutting costs was more important than chasing a title for a year or two.
End result, you lose Melo, you lose Nene, legitimate FA refuse to come to Denver (either signing or S&T) and now you become the Colorado Avalanche.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw this coming 2 plus years ago.
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Nov 29, 2011 9:15 PM MST up reply actions
Ridiculous
The idea that Kroenke is a cheap owner seems crazy to me. Our payroll was 5th highest in the NBA at the start of last season. Yes, we did not use our trade exception. Who were we going to use it on? It’s obvious we needed a big man but those are rare to be available by trade, and they would have involved Denver giving up something beyond just using their trade exception.
Star free agents have always refused to go to Denver. Just like they have, with few exceptions refused to go to San Antonio and other similar markets.
We are not going to spend like the Lakers or Knicks will be able to, but that isn’t the fault of ownership really.
Afflalo
Is worth more then 5 million I believe. At least 8 million he could easily get. If he only cared about money he could push for a lot more, but I think he will ask for around 7/8 million.
Leader of the Denver Stiffs International Contingent
K2 Club Member #1 (Kosta Koufos Fan Club)
"Lawson is Crazy!" - Jason Kosmicki
Aussie Aces - Owner, Denver Stiffs Fantasy Basketball.
by stan_26 on Nov 29, 2011 2:11 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions
Gonna have to pay somebody
Might as well be a guy with an unquestionable work ethic, defensive skills and a nice shot. The man’s even been clutch a few times.
I really think AAA could be a legit offensive threat, albeit not a volume-shooter type that you have to get touches to. But who would want that, really?
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
I mean, he's the sort who would totally play within the flow of the offense
How can you not like that? I’d be OK with giving AAA some money.
"No one likes a beggar slightly overdressed"
I'd trade him... For a top three pick in next year's draft.
Afflalo is definitely the kind of player you don’t want to lose, though.
Afflalo doesn't get a top three pick
He would get a first rounder though, but teams that have high priority in the lottery would not be giving up picks for him. Also trading him won’t solve our 85% issue.
Leader of the Denver Stiffs International Contingent
K2 Club Member #1 (Kosta Koufos Fan Club)
"Lawson is Crazy!" - Jason Kosmicki
Aussie Aces - Owner, Denver Stiffs Fantasy Basketball.
by stan_26 on Nov 29, 2011 3:36 PM MST via iPhone app up reply actions
Sad Quotes From Nene
I just don’t understand his feeling that franchise disrespected him. There was perhaps too much focus on the Melo deal, but I didn’t see a lot of other teams doing max extensions heading into a new CBA. That would have been nuts IMO. Josh and Masai have said that they only want players who want to be here, not who we have to overpay and cajole to play here. Time to go young — sign and trade Nene, amnesty Fat Albert, sign AAA, and gather a few 1year contracts. The focus should now be on giving our young guys a lot of minutes and getting a nice draft pick or two. I really think Ty, AAA, Gallo, Moz and Faried are a nice young core. Let the OKC model begin!
by ACEIII on Nov 29, 2011 4:35 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Nah don't offer money at DJ. I want him to stay a Clipper.
Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I understand it, actually.
My work cut my hours in favor of a couple guys a while ago after I had been with the company for a few years. I was hit by a car on my bike and I broke my shoulder. When I was in rehab and in serious hospital debt, they didn’t care and justified not giving me hours because the new guys (one being the GM’s good friend ) had filled in for me. Now, one of them is going to jail for drugs and they are begging me for help.
What do you think I am going to do? Say “no problem” and continue to work for these snakes? Absolutely not. I am heading for greener pastures. I feel like I understand Nene’s choices better than anyone right now.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
by KevinAwesome on Nov 29, 2011 4:47 PM MST up reply actions
Well on the bright side...
I won’t have to yell “why don’t you just dunk that shit?!?!!” at my TV anymore
Maybe you'd feel differently if
You had been offered 4 years for $50 million.
You were abused, but Nene’s just getting is shorts in a wad.
(with a whole lotta help from his agents)
Doesn't change no matter how much money is involved
This is still an employer, employee relationship. And when you’ve shown nothing but dedication to your employer and there is no return in loyalty (except at times of convenience), you will be resentful.
I love where I work. I love the staff. I love the management. I love the location, but what they did to me is just business. They want me to stay, tell me how much they value me, and play on my emotions, but the trust is gone. No thanks. So yeah, I will not fault Nene if he leaves for somewhere else….except the Heat.
DenverStiffs > MileHighReport
by KevinAwesome on Nov 29, 2011 5:17 PM MST up reply actions
Never let the chaos created by agents mess with your head
At least if you’re calling the shots, just be very fair, and with Nene maybe
a little more and let the chips fall.
I can see why Nene wants to leave
When his “fans” don’t realize how valuable he is. Check out Nene’s advanced stats on both sides of the ball. He’s a better player than Melo was, and nobody seemed to have a problem with that. Bigs tend to age better than wings, and Nene has been the most durable Nugg over the last three years.
I guess nobody remembers what happened the last time we let a big go without offering him the max.
wooohooooo
cant wait for the season to start!!!!!!
agalia, are u in denver?
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
firegeorgekarl.com
In Boulder actually
I’ll be back in the 808 for christmas when the season starts, but I’ll be back early January to hit up some Nuggets games!
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"They're two-deep at the crazy position!" - Kenny "The Jet" Smith.
by Agaliarept on Nov 30, 2011 1:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
oh so u go to CU?
my cousin moonchild808 should probably be moving up here soon too. yeee
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
firegeorgekarl.com
by 808inDenver on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 PM MST up reply actions
Nope, just Days of Thunder...
dunks by Faried!!!
"All you fuckers who think we won't be good anymore, fuck you" - GK
Afflalo is Boss.
by love4nuggets on Nov 30, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
BTW anyone looking for tickets this season
Let me know. I got a huge discount on 4 season tickets. I can’t budget the while season and am looking for a partial season partner. Nugs4life@comcast.net.
Follow twitter : twitter.com/Jay_Ru96
Formerly JR2
Denver Nuggets dove c'e squadra nel basket
GALLLLLLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by The U.N. Fab Five on Nov 29, 2011 9:19 PM MST reply actions
We'll see about Nene
I am really intrigued by the idea of a Moz – Nene – Gallo front line, but if Nene feels dissed, he ain’t gonna sign. I also don’t mind the idea of Harrington as sixth man until Hamilton is ready. Faried will contribute right away IMO.
BTW, Hamilton is a 3, not a 2, especially in terms of defense, so presuming we keep AAA (pay that man!) we will need another SG. I would love Gary Forbes to grow into that guy, but I still think Anthony Parker would be a great player/mentor for him and Hamilton,at least for one year.
the new cba is better but not perfect
I think Denver will be ok when it comes to the cap floor. No nene means godfather offer to gasol and a good shot at guys like kris humphries and Thad young, both of whom I would love in sky blue and gold
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Anthony from bondage will deliver Gallinari
by Zachm219 on Nov 30, 2011 12:55 PM MST via iPhone app reply actions






















