Overrated scorers
by Thursty on Sep 9, 2010 9:15 AM MDT
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-berri/the-most-overrated-scorer_b_701408.html
I haven't seen any discussion on this article so I thought I'd post it. Apparently the Huffington Post isn't so popular with Stiffs. With Melo and Harrington on the list, it is relevant. What I found interesting is how he backs up his claims with statistics although he's sort of equating inefficiency as a scorer to being an overrated scorer.
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If firmly believe that Melo's inefficency is inflated because of his playing style
Alot of his misses come from getting fouled from being aggressive and non foul calls and offensive fouls which are counted as turnovers.
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this!
and the fact that while others argue that Melo stalls our offense, I don’t really think the Nuggets offense is designed to create a lot of motion. A stagnant offense is not going to help someone get a good shot.
True, the stagnant offense is because there is no offense
Karl still sticks by the belief of no set offense because the defense is what causes the offense.
This may also explain why Karl with the all-universe roster he had in Seattle could not win a NBA title.
Similar limitation Moe had with his motion offense teams when they got in a long playoff series
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
While I don't disagree with his general premise...
I disagree with his methodology. I’ve been hard on Melo in the past because I don’t believe he’s a complete superstar. I don’t feel his TS% is quite where it needs to be (close, but just not quite there) and I still haven’t seen the peripheral skills of a super-elite player. I love Melo, I just think he’s flawed as a true #1 player.
However, I have problems with the statistic they use, WP, or Wins Produced. If you actually see how they determine WP, there’s a lot of team variables involved, kind of like +/- with different stats (points, rebs). Without getting to statisticy, I believe WP still needs further modifications for it be used mainstream, certainly before we use it as a measure to legitimately judge players by. It’s elegant, but ultimately, flawed still in my opinion. I also get a hint of confirmation bias when I see WP but I would need a lot more time and research to look into that as that’s not a claim I’d want to just throw around.
Agree, I saw a lot of justifying but very little explanation on how he came to his numbers
And I do disagree with his position. Melo’s overall scoring efficiency is actually quite good. His Shooting % could be higher but his FT % and Free Throws per game are very high. This suggests as mentioned above Melo gets to the line a lot but misses a lot of shots trying to get to the line.
The numbers I was playing with all last year was more big picture but still with a focus on effeciency. Melo finished in the top 15 and was top 10 most of the year until his late season shooting % caused his numbers to slowly go down.
But again, I think it’s still the offseason and the talking heads are scrambling around trying to come up with something to make them sound informed
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
People can argue he's inefficient all they want
He still gives us 30 points a game and more importantly, there’s no one I’d rather have shooting the last shot of the game.
by NugNugz on Sep 9, 2010 12:03 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
True
However, he can score 30 all he wants but if the guy he’s playing D on scores more than 30 then it doesn’t matter.
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by Garrett Olsen on Sep 10, 2010 5:54 PM MDT up reply actions
Tis also true
my response to that is that if Melo’s not up to the challenge (which is a shame when he’s not because he’s actually a pretty good defender) that I would hope that they’d put Afflalo on that guy. Now if someone like Marvin Williams lights up Melo for 30 points, then you have a very good point.
But that's an incorrect argument, the player he's guarding is not matching Melo for points
When a player does try to outgun Melo, Melo has turned out the winner more often than not (last year’s Cavs game for example).
He’s never going to be the all world all around game player; but LeBron & Kobe are not the great defenders that are advertised as; they also have games where they totally disappear on D. The difference is Melo does it more often.
I still hold true to the belief that Melo’s assists would be a lot higher if he had anybody who was capable of making a shot off of one of his passes. I’ve seen it happen too often where Melo stops passing because he’s tired of the brick-laying parade his teammates throw up and where the JRs of the world would never pass it to Melo… or anybody else that is.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
the thing about JR that bothers me most
is that Melo could have just made 4 shots in a row and then JR comes in the game and for the next three-four possessions not only does Melo NOT shoot the ball, but he might not even get a touch. If he is on fire, give him the damn ball! I’ve seen JR countless times come in and just start jacking up threes. If you think about the Lakers or the old Cavs, Kobe and Lebron touch it every time down. IMO that needs to be Carmelo – it doesn’t mean he has to shoot it, but give him the ball!
hard to make 53 wins with an overrated player leading
I can understand Monta Ellis maybe. Anthony is dangerous to other teams in ways that dont show up in stats. for example he forces teams to double or triple team him allowing the rest of the team to produce. his one on one game is great too. All you have to do is watch him play and you’ll easily see the top player he is. I cant wait for the season to start
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