Nuggets and DJ Mbenga reach an Agreement
by hvino on Sep 4, 2010 7:29 AM MDT
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According to the Belgian media, D.J. Mbenga will continue his career in the Denver Nuggets. Both parts would have reached a one-year agreement in principle.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=&c=1&TEAM_ID=30&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100904#STORY_27949#ixzz0yZDQCcA7
I don't know if I could really trust the hoopsmarket (where this from, it's a euro bball site) but I'm not that surprised. DJ is probably the best minimum big available right now (except for maybe Oberto). I hope he forgives Ty for raping him last year. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the deal wasn't guaranteed. But this also means we likely won't have a 2 for 3 or 2 for 1 deal any more (even though we still could, Nuggz usually hold 14 players). Also is DJ from the Congo? I wonder if Masai really pushed for him... Actually I think he's from Belgium (where I think Masai used to scout)
Overall pretty insignificant signing... but its some news... He'll prob see the minutes Malik Allen saw last year (and Williams will see Petro's minutes)...
And btw, I already has the perfect nickname for this team....DACOS
">Dacos
DJ and Shelden will make up by far the uggliest big men duo in the NBA (prob in NBA history, damn they some ugly dudes)
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Sweet
Signs of competence coming from the newly revamped Front office
Quitter's People United Member #35
My thoughts exactly
It’s a good signing IMO…
I think Masai is gonna pull off something soon… similar to how shortly after NO management met with CP they got Trevor Ariza (great fit for them IMO and fixed a major hole in their lineup)… makes me think Masai will present Melo with a couple of trade options and will say he’ll do one of his choice if he re-signs….
I agree
This is a good solid signing, and I hope that there is a bigger move coming. I think there HAS to be a big move – just with all the negativity surrounding JR, Kenyon, and Melo, and Birdman’s contract looking worse by the second, something’s gotta give.
by Missing Lynx on Sep 4, 2010 10:04 AM MDT up reply actions
Bird's contract is extremely reasonable
paying $4 mil for a big man for 18 mpg is a great deal in the NBA.. Gortat plays like 10 mpg and makes like $6 mil, Sheed made $6 mil, Eddy Curry makes like $12 mil, Okafor makes like $13 mil, Reggie Evans makes $6 mil, Darko makes like $5 mil and there are a lot worse paid big men… So I think Bird has a fair contract…also shows how when ppl say Biedrins is being overpaid, it’s kinda dumb… Haywood who is much older is making more than him for more years….
by hvino on Sep 4, 2010 10:25 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
I love bird and he can really spark a comeback, but he has proven he is a <15mpg guy. 18mpg was clearly too much for bird. Gortat is a starting quality player, or at the very least, a sixth man quality player. Bird is an awful offensive player, mediocre defensive player who gambles all the time to go for the block and he is injury prone. I dont know how you could call him reasonable.
Yeah, all I am saying is that
we will continue to see him taper off, with flashes of what we saw in 08-09. In 3 years, he will be lucky to see 10 minutes a game and become even more of a liability as he loses a step.
I’m not down on Bird, I am just hesitant of giving 30+ year old players 5 year deals in general. About half the time, what first “appears” to be a reasonable signing turns into a bad contract. Its sad to see.
Bird wasn’t quite as good as 08-09 last year, but he was still pretty darn good while battling through a bunch of injuries. He actually showed a lot of improvement in a number of areas, including better defensive positioning and an improved jump shot. He’s still one of the top big man off the bench in the whole league. His contract will be no bargain in the later years, but right now it still is.
yea throw birdman in there
we sure ain’t winning any beauty prizes. we should get kaman to round it out.
If we trade you Kaman you can tell him to grow his hair back to how it was in 05-06
or you could have him shave it, he looks equally ugly either way.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Kaman is the ugliest white guy in the NBA
maybe we could hire Sam Cassel as an assistant… but seriously, I’d like him to replace Mosley… not just cuz he’s the ugliest player in NBA history but b/c I think he’d be at least as good Dantley
This seals it
Championship in Denver – June 2011!
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Sep 4, 2010 10:41 AM MDT reply actions
If it's true, I like this
I know some people have expressed dislike for Mbenga citing how after being a project for several years he hasn’t panned out. He was cut from a team with arguably the strongest frontcourt rotation in the NBA, who just acquired a promising young rookie in Caracter.
For the money, Mbenga is huge and athletic. He obviously needs work, but he’s a risk with high upside. At 29 he may have a little more room to improve than most 29 year olds, having had less of a basketball background.
Obviously, he’s not the be-all and end-all center we’ve been hoping for, but if he cuts down on his fouls and puts more work into rebounding, he has enough raw athleticism to be a strong bench contributor.
Wow....
…………………………………………………………………………………………
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
"I don't want to be like Brett Favre. I don't want to be like Old Yeller, when they take you behind the barn and shoot you." -Hines Ward-
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Having two guys who were in the finals last year
Helps us out a lot. Mbenga can tell us how PJ coaches and some of the Lakers secrets. Williams and Mbenga will definitely provide more than playing time b/c of their playoff experiences. Doesn’t Mbenga have 2 rings too? He will have more than any other Nugget lol.
by JR15 on Sep 4, 2010 12:50 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
I would still rather have
Admoudson
by tknuckle on Sep 4, 2010 12:50 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
I'm hoping
Balkman can be our Amundson. Maybe GK has a change of heart after the chemotherapy and realizes Balkmam played beautifully for PR. He is a talented rebounder and a great energy guy for the second unit.
by JR15 on Sep 4, 2010 1:31 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
GMK
With the new FO I’m wondering what GK’s role is going to be in obtaining new players .
GMK has his reputation of not dealing with rookies and choosing not to play players. Balkman is an example along with Ray Allen and JR Smith.
We all know that the early eight man rotation last season was the cause of some key injuries. With the revamping of the Nuggets can GMK coach the Nuggets effectively and I wonder about his relationship with the new GM.
Not bad.
"All the world's indeed a stage, and we are merely players."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on Sep 4, 2010 1:44 PM MDT reply actions
Good Signing
To me, Mbenga is an upgrade over Frenchie, who was terribly soft. Mbenga can bang, block a few shots, and obviously knows how to guard the LA big men. I think it was a numbers thing in LA. Good work by our new FO team!
by ACEIII on Sep 4, 2010 1:50 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
It was
But it was to make room for Character and Ebanks.
I still wish we had somehow got Caracter in the draft
that still irks me.
Not bad....
He’s essentially replacing Petro.
I’m hearing great things about Balkman and Harrington in terms of attitude adjustments and drive. Lets hope that applies.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
Balkmans attitude still needs adjusting
Balkman Left Puerto Rican Locker Room
8/30
Renaldo Balkman stormed off the Puerto Rican locker room after losing against Greece and National Team’s head coach Manolo Cintron said he was not happy at all. "He’s demanding minutes and not giving anything in return. He has not played more because I don’t think he has adapted well to our system. And he has been the most inconsistent player during practices. His attitude is not good. He left the locker room at the end of the game. That’s not right," said Cintron. “I’ll play those who are involved. There are 11 players involved. He is the one that has been missing practices.”
Quitter's People United Member #5280
Odd
Balkman’s issues make the Nuggs’ extension of his contract even more bizarre. He clearly does not get along with Karl, has had off the court problems, and now can’t even muster the right attitude for the Puerto Rican national team. What was the FO thinking when they extended this troubled player’s contract?
This contradicts everything that was being said before this
huh….
I suppose a knucklehead will always be a knucklehead. Unfortunately we seem to be stuck with him
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
Balkman
Unbelievable, no wonder he’s good friends with JR. Since his salary isn’t a big one, could we trade him for 2nd Rounder? IDK, but with an attitude and poor practice time, you know George will keep him on the bench and it sounds like he’s getting what he deserves.
Idea perhaps:
Start Mbenga so Nene can be at his rightful place as a PF.
Harrington, Smith, Lawson and Williams/Balkman can do the damage off of the bench.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
"I don't want to be like Brett Favre. I don't want to be like Old Yeller, when they take you behind the barn and shoot you." -Hines Ward-
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
We got this guy whem Amundson still isn't signed...
I would MUCH rather have Amundson, though DJ has got more height to offer.
Quitter's People United member #7
"Every morning we wake up we got two options, you get better or you get worse. What you gonna do today?" - Steve Hess
I've heard Lou really wants more money
he prob could’ve gotten it with us if he wasn’t so greedy earlier in the off-season cuz it looked like both sides wanted a deal, he just wanted more money… besides the three teams being mentioned for his services (Indiana, New Orleans and GSW) all have the MLe (or for GSw part of it) to offer him… Indy he’d get a lot of minutes, he’d be pretty bad in GSW IMO (he’d only play center and get raped) and would be a good first big for NO and is also a guy who could benefit from Paul a lot… so not only can all those teams offer more money, but they can also offer minutes and an opportunity to showcase himself for a bigger contract
Melo resigns for sure now
but seriously its a step in the right direction although I would of preferred Earl Barron
Mbenga is from Congo
However, Congo used to be colonized by Belgium which might explain the confusion to some extent. It’s not uncommon after the 1960s especially for people from colonized nations to end up in the nation of the colonizer for various reasons stemming from education to different job opportunities.
ty lawson is stoked
hey, DJ, let’s do that one again…where i dunk on your no hops having ass…yeah, that’s the one. good times.
by AgainstTheLaw.Son on Sep 4, 2010 9:48 PM MDT reply actions
You guys sure are optimistic
DJ Mbenga is one of the worst players in the league, if not the worst player. He’s Johan Petro without any potential for upside. He’s 29 years old. His career FG% is 47%. He’s averaged 6.4 minutes a game. His highest PER in a year is 13.92 and his lowest is 3.86 (that’s just flat out ridiculous, I didn’t think a player could ever get that low). I can’t imagine a universe where any minutes he plays is a good thing.
7’, 255 lbs, 6 fouls available per game. End of story. Sometimes you need that. Not often, but he’s not a bad pickup for a 3rd string center. Remember, Petro got 10 million over 3 years. I didn’t see any potential for Petro to be worth anything like that kind of money.
If all you’re treating him as is 7’, 255 lb, and 6 fouls who maybe plays 20 meaningful minutes all year then I have absolutely nothing against this signing. It’s great. One year? Probably for the veteran’s minimum or close? Sure! I probably would have preferred just giving the contract to Rocky as he has a little more width but Mbenga works just as well.
It’s when I start reading comments on here about him not reaching his potential, or putting him in the starting lineup, or he could develop into a solid bench player where I become a little hesitant. The dude’s 29 years old. If he was gonna make any sort of impact in the NBA, chances are he would have done it by now. Not too many players have their breakout out year when the year they turn 30. It’s not impossible but I think the chances of it are closer to 2% than 20%.
posting fail
I’m not sure you’re capable of believing in something that statistics don’t support.
You’re right that I’m a huge believer in statistics despite the fact I know they’re flawed, especially for team sports. However, I do believe that if a player has any type of value, it’ll show up somewhere. It might not be in his PPG, or R/40, but it should at least show up in his +/- rating or other types of “advanced statistics.” Otherwise you just kind of fall for the old “I know he’s good because of what I see” type maxims. Our eyes, mind, and memory play tricks on us, that’s well-known. I need at least some kind of tangible evidence saying he’s doing “XYZ” to backup what my senses are telling me. Even if there’s another stat telling me the exact opposite, at least there’s room for judgment/argument.
In Mbenga’s case though, I understand and completely agree with the need and reasons for having a 7 footer at the end of the bench who is able to stand up under his own power to eat up 6 fouls. As sad as that is, being that big and moving without a motorized wheelchair is worth almost over half a million dollars a year. Go figure.
"at least there’s room for judgment/argument"
you’re right, there’s not much intellectual debate behind unfounded optimism. I do give him a pass on his age, though, as it is likely he didn’t have the same basketball upbringing that most NBA basketball players have. I don’t expect him to be a completely different player, but if he has the ability to go on a shot-blocking rampage (which he has), even a slight improvement in his consistency and personal fouls could make a significant difference. Personally, I improved my game immensely from the time I was 29 to now (34; my point being that middle-aged dogs can learn new tricks).
I’m also guessing that a beefy 7-footer like Mbenga will prove more useful on the Nuggets roster than he did behind Dampier and Diop in his early years, or with Pau and Bynum these past few years. His sheer size gives the Nuggets a defensive body-type that they have not had in a long time.
Maybe by the end of this season, we might even have some stats to support the idea that he has yet to reach his peak.
Anyway, did we even sign this guy or not?
I don't know why all these people want Amundson as apposed to Mbenga
We need height!!! I’m done with signing anybody under 7 feet. It shouldn’t be allowed. We already have Bird, K-Mart, Nene, Balkman, Harrington and Melo all under 7 feet. We dont’ need anybody else. And on top of that we don’t need anybody else who looks like they’re from a planet other than Earth.
Stiff 4 Life
Forgot to mention
I think this is a great signing. No Mbenga isn’t exactly a stud but this is a sign by our FO that things are going to change in my opinion. First thing they do as a new team is sign an 7 footer. Love it, even if he might be half retarded.
Stiff 4 Life
by GoldenNugget on Sep 4, 2010 11:36 PM MDT up reply actions
Because Amundson has proven he's a player and Mbenga has never demonstrated he's more than a 12th man
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Does it have to be one or the other?
Can’t they still go after Amundson or someone else? I would hardly call Mbenga the solution.
DJ was playing behind Gasol, Bynum and Odom for minutes
On a team that just happens to have the best player in the league…of course he’s low man on the totum pole. If nothing else he’ll cast a seven foot shadow over balkman at the end of the bench.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
One really scary thing I saw was that apparently he'd never played more than 49 games in a season...
idk if it’s cuz there are a lot of games he doesn’t play in, but that’s scary….
Also I researched him and it looks like he was doing good for Dallas and went to GSW where tore his ACL, then he stopped improving and was waived by GSW then went to LA… so actually he’s never really been given the opportunity and when he starts he’s put up double doubles… so maybe he was never given the chance because outside of Dallas he hasn’t had major minutes (and he’s never played for a bad team, always on a contender)
Also I like the nick name Congo Cash (along with DACOS)
i'm guessing a lot of it was DNP-coach's decision
i see him as a less talented petro but with a little more bulk. petro wanted to get paid so he left and we got a less talented replacement. sometimes thats how it goes
I think Mbenga
can equal or even surpass Petro’s defense because he is way bulkier. I imagine his offense will be way worse, unless he gets more aggressive on the boards for some two foot put-backs.
They both have foul issues.
I also think a bulky defense-first big like Mbenga will be much more effective on our roster than on most.
IN the run and gun offense we have
There will be plenty of rebounds for him to eat up. I think that has been one of our bigger problems is not having a banger inside to battle for the boards.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
he'll have to work on his rebounding...
which is sub-par for a 7-footer :(
interesting, I was an advocate for signing him earlier, but didn't think we'd get him now.
Now that we have him… we’ll have to see how it goes. I’m surprised the Lakers didn’t sign him again as he was killing it at the end of the reg season last year for them. Good sign for us I suppose.
by InboundingLobPass on Sep 5, 2010 2:10 AM MDT reply actions
Athletic and Big
..and entering his Prime. Signing Mbenga to a one year deal was no-brainer, what with Kmart’s and Bird’s injuries. Admundson would have been great, but signing him to longer term deal at more dollars doesn’t make sense given Melo’s uncertain status.
Entering his prime? What...
You have to be kidding me all you hear on this blog is about our bigs ages. So dj is 29 and in his prime bird is 32 and ready for a wheelchair. I’m so sick of hearing people get down on bird he’s an important part of this team. It wasn’t long ago we all signed a petition to get him re-signed. Leave the dude alone he had one bad year and his contract is really fair. This dj signing is not positive for one that’s all that was left in the bottom of the barrel and Two this conforms some of our fears our new gm is going to sign only foriegn players.
by tknuckle on Sep 5, 2010 1:14 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
i would hardly say this confirms that the GM is going to sign only foreign players
He signed one. Stop with your xenophobia and calm down.
Bird is an important part of the team, but his contract is bad. The Nuggets didn’t even see what his market value was, they just gave him this contract that increases each year. That, plus the fact that he’ll be like 36 (not the best thing when the player thrives off of athleticism) when it ends, makes it a bad contract
It's an OK enough pickup though it'll have little to no relevance on the court
It does bring another non-guaranteed minimum contract that could be used to help package a trade further on; either him or Williams.
Last week there was a similar posting stating he was re-signing with the Lakers that was quickly shot down. I suppose it’s a believe it when you see it signing.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Nice
I like Mbenga, but i’ll be happy when Ujiri trades for a rotational player, not a pine rider
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
Coming from a Lakers fan...
DJ really isn’t that good of a player. He’s a good shooter and has good defense, but he’s a bench player at best. He has an interesting background though, check out his wikipedia page.
Dempsey says it hasn't happened yet
http://twitter.com/dempseypost/statuses/23093104980
Not too surprised because of how shady the original source is. I definitely thought it was a “good” signing but I have my doubts about how good the Lakers made him look the past 2 years. I mean when you’re backing up Odom, Gasol and Bynum it’s not like he was constantly facing top level NBA talent very much. What you have with him is the Brook Lopez/NJ Nets effect where the end result is skewed by the amount of garbage time played and how little the other teams center cares. Signing to a non guaranteed deal wouldn’t be a bad move, but he’d be a prime candidate to be waived, when Birdman’s back he probably wouldn’t play at all.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Well I'm not too surprised, I even said it in the intitial right when happened (check the fan post) b/c the source is iffy
Not to mention it’s not the first time he’s been mistakenly reported for signing…
nice to see Dempsey do some actual reporting for a change
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I'm thinking Mbenga's agent is trying to drum up some interest by floating out false stories
Same deal happened a week or 2 ago where one day there was a story that Mbenga was re-signing with the Lakers and then the next day the Lakers announced they were not going to re-sign Mbenga.
If they sign him fine; if they don’t, fine. But if they sign him and try to sell the fans that Mbenga is anything other than a scrub then I won’t be pleased. That’s the same crap they tried to pull last year. They traded for Tacos and were selling him as a veteran presence on the court and locker room. From Day 1 I was calling that garbage that Tacos was not a player and the year proved it true.
Think we may have to coin the Tacos rule:
If a big is over 30 and can’t get off the bench for a bad team; he is not a good acquisition.
Come to think of it, we can also coin the Mbenga rule:
If a big is under 30 and a team is willing to let him go without re-signing or receiving compensation, he is not a good acquisition.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
DACOS!!!
He wouldn’t deliver the ship, that’s for sure.
by InboundingLobPass on Sep 7, 2010 1:19 AM MDT via mobile reply actions
True.. I had my day of "He's a 7footer... we gotta keep him"!!!
But please, there’s a reason why a young “footer” who never delivered is being released by the Lakers for no compensation… it’s because dude can’t play!!!
Whether you’re the Celtics, Lakers or the frigging Globetrotters… you don’t give up a legit young “footer” for nothing. If the Lakers are dumping Mbenga it’s because he’s useless.
I’d love to be proven wrong… but it just isn’t gonna happen.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
the Lakers roster is crammed
I don’t see any shame in being let go in favor of a promising rookie Caracter or even an old Theo Ratliff.
If the height-deficient Nuggets can dump a 7-footer for nothing (and I’d say Petro was at least a notch above useless), I don’t see why getting dumped from a team with far less of a need for height makes Mbenga useless.
I’m guessing this has yet to be confirmed…?
Don't matter how crammed a roster is... if you have a legit Footer on your roster you don't let him go for nothing
That’s really all that needs to be said about Petro; the Nugs need size & depth and they let Petro go. The let him go for the same reason why OKC dumped him on the Nugs… he can’t play.
If he’s a Footer and you’re paying him the minimum to sit on the end of the bench then that’s fine; but if he’s wanting multi years and more money then don’t waste your time if he can’t play.
OKC got rid of Petro because he can’t play.
The Nugs let Petro go because they didn’t want to pay multi year or more than the minimum because Petro can’t play.
The Lakers dumped Mbenga because he can’t play… period.
If the Nugs want to sign Mbenga, that’s fine… but he can’t play so it doesn’t matter whether they sign him or not. The Nugs have to have 12 to 15 players on theri roster. The #12 thru 15 players are either unproven rookies or veterans who can’t play. Why? because the team has to have that many players.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Petro>Bird
I dont know what you are talking about, he was our best bench big last year.
that is true
I actually thought he deserved more time pre-K-Mart injury. No one is expecting Mbenga or Petro to play 35 minutes a game, but if we had someone who could legitimately give us 12 minutes that isn’t garbage time and produce something, that would be nice.
Naturally it would be even better if we did have a big that could play 30 minutes a game in addition to K-Mart and Nene, but I think we all can agree that that’s not Mbenga
Theo is 37 years old and has the lateral movement of a lawn chair
I’m sorry, but if you can’t beat out Theo Ratliff for a spot on a roster, then you are the definition of useless. Literally, your only use on a basketball court is to stand under the hoop and wait for people to run into you/jump over you and draw 6 fouls because that’s all Theo does. Then go sit at the end of the bench and wave your towel.
would you rather have Petro, Mbenga, or Ratliff?
if the money were the same…
or Mailk?
Can I ask for $500 for No Flippin way for any of the above Alex?
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
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