Do Nothing Part 2......Reality
by jpage78 on Sep 1, 2010 12:17 PM MDT
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PrintWhile we as Nuggets fans obsess over completely irrational trade proposals for Carmelo, let me delve in to why....the Nuggets have reason to believe they will be damn good next year WITH Carmelo.
Over and over it's been pointed out by the Nuggets FO that they did, indeed, win 53 games last year. If George Karl doesn't go down I'm convinced the Nuggets would have won 56 or 57 games. Remember they lost several close games down the stretch (one in New York that still burns me when I think about it) without GK. Dantley was COMPLETELY unprepared to lead a team with egos (Melo, Chauncey, Kmart) and knuckleheads (JR) all of which George Karl perfected.
From everything I've been told and have read, the Nuggets are VERY high on Al Harrington. In fact, all of them were surprised about his enthusiasm and willingness to focus on Defense. Couple that with his offense and you get a potentially deadly weapon along side Melo. With that scoring burden relieved from Carmelo we will have a more deadly offense in the "random" set.
People think the injuries to Kenyon and Bird will be crippling. Two things:
1. We had half a bird ALL of last year, and the Nuggets were still 20 over .500 when George Karl announced his illness. Andersen is kind of like an additive you put in your high performing engine to make it even more high performing. He's great for the home crowd....provides energy...but is not "essential" to the Nuggets overall engine.
2. When Kenyon comes back there's no guarantee that he will be healthy enough to perform at the level he was prior to his knee giving out again. He provided great 1 on 1 defense but wasn't great on team defense. While he is out the Nuggets need to come together as a team...and do just enough D to give the team a chance.
Also, we have another year of Ty....and if the Nuggets stop switching off all the time, we can exploit Ty's presence and capitalize on his skill set.
Let us also consider this. What if by the Trade deadline the Nuggets are going great guns? Why trade Melo? The Nuggets are a better team than Cleveland was, and the freaking out that people are doing is kinda strange. What I've seen come together is the people who hate Melo, and the ones who don't want him to leave. An awkward alliance of fear.
Let me ask everyone out there in Nuggetsville.....what's to fear? To the people who dislike Melo anyway....why trade someone you cant stand for a hill of beans and some lawn clippings? If you think Melo isn't that great then losing him is no big loss right? To the people (like me) who are fearful of life without Melo I have this to say. Any analogy to Dikembe Mutumbo ends with their salary. Bickerstaff gambled in letting Mutumbo walk away because he thought the roster would stay healthy. Soon the entire roster broke down. Dale Ellis flaked out, Laphonso Ellis' injuries destroyed his career....it would be another two years till Antonio McDyess. Plus, Mutumbo's salary didn't get the Nuggets enough space to pursue other valuable free agents. If Melo leaves we have Kmart and Jr's expiring contracts....as well as potential deals or renegotiation's with Chauncey. The Nuggets aren't in horrible shape.
If Melo walks, he walks. The hand wringing and the demanding he be traded to squelch anxiety is ridiculous. Getting picks in return is silly. Other than Ty and Melo....how often has this organization had a GOOD draft? 4 times in 20 years? That's pretty bad.This team is pretty damn good. I'm constantly amused at how we buy in to the crap that's coming out of NY and just assume that our team is a bunch of stitched together rag dolls who serve as a minor league for the "real" teams in the east. STOP WITH THIS!
I have every confidence that this roster, as constructed can get us to the trade deadline in pretty good shape. Then a couple deals can be made at the deadline to make the team better with Kmart and Jr's contracts.Lets pull our heads out of our asses here.
Next article:
Watch me bitch slap the New York based media for starting false rumors and in general being lackwits.
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
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Nailed it jpage
As I said in a reply to your previous post, Melo’s management has seriously overplayed their hand – it’s like they forgot he’s still under contract.
Barring an absolute blockbuster of a trade (i.e., something a heckuva a lot better than the anemic proposals I’ve seen floated the last few weeks), they should make him play out his contract and see what happens. If nothing else, it’ll send a message to the rest of the NBA (specifically the Worldwide Wes clientele) that contracts still mean something and you can’t just bully your way out of town whenever you feel like it.
i have to agree with you about the draft
It always seems instead of just drafting the universally accepted players with potential we always seem to draft some unknown dude who never even ends up playing for us. Now, this may be a calculated behavior. IE, “never draft anyone good and you don’t have take on any salary automatically,” but this isn’t a sound strategy unless you’re aggresive in the free agency market. As we’ve seen lately the FO doesn’t often make many splashes in that regard.
by InboundingLobPass on Sep 1, 2010 1:37 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
That can't be true because the Nugs haven't drafted anyone for years!!! man I wish I was kidding with that one.
You actually are spot on about Kiki’s time here. Kiki had to get his Euro on and his Euro on bad. With his drafts he was always looking for the next Dirk or diamond in the rough which led to huge forced picks such as Skits AND Nene instead of Amare. Don’t forget the Kiki would’ve taken Darko over Melo.
But WRex, they chose to draft no one until after watching several years of ESPN they decided to get Ty.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
thanks for the compliment hvino
I think more and more people are realizing that the Nuggets aren’t going to get anything worth a crap in a trade. Lets win THIS YEAR. Let everything else take care of itself. If Melo leaves then he leaves. We will have 8 years (3 more than Mutumbo gave Denver) to look back on.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I fear the ship has already sailed, but I'll be hopeful until the day the deal goes through
Then it’ll be deciding whether to force myself to suffer through another bad Denver product (Broncs, Rox, CU, CSU) all pretty painful to try to watch.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Good write up though on a couple of items
I’m getting worried about the Nugs company line about “well if Karl didn’t get cancer” as being a pass for last year. Remember the team was having some issues the team chose not to address before Karl’s illness. I wonder if that’s part of Melo’s hesitation on signing (or decision to not sign). The Nugs organization always looks for a reason to not do something rather than a reason to do something (huge difference there).
What’s to fear? Very good question. My concern isn’t that we’d lose an allstar like Melo. My very real concern is that we’ll lose Melo the gamechanger.
The Mutombo & McD teams were pretty good, Mutombo & McD both became occasional all stars & Mutombo’s teams actually snuck into the playoffs twice as #8 seeds. But the teams were never going to get better and Mutombo & McD both were not & never were going to gamechanging players.
There just are not very many gamechanging players in the league, today or ever. Take Melo away and compare the Nugs & Sac-town; are those 2 teams really that different?
The difference is Melo and when he’s gone the Nugs are not going to be able to replace that. It took 21 years between Skywalker & Melo; how long til the next one is found.
With Melo the Nugs can contend for a title if the FO takes care of business. And it’s been since the 1970’s (Skywalker’s days) since the Nugs can make that statement and mean it. Even during the Moe years that statement could not be said.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
All that was bad management
There were still superstars between then and now.
Everything is not always bad management
Bernie has been just as smart and just as stupid as WRex. Sir Sid back in the day was just as successful and just as stupid as the Kronks. Trying to say it’s bad management is going for the way too convenient revisionist history card.
And no there wasn’t superstars in between. There have been some all stars: English was a great scorer, Fat was to die for as a all around player; Issel was traded for at the end of his career and gave great seasons. But there no other true gamechanging players between Thompson and Melo.
The term superstar is thrown around so easily. Forget the politics and fan popularity and “how many all star games were you voted to”. You’re building a team from scratch who would you choose. Melo is one of those players and all the great Nugget players over the years except for Skywalker would not be chosen. Issel in his Kentucky days would have been one but that doesn’t count because of course he was playing for Kentucky then.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Re-reading my comment, its not clear
What I meant was that Kobe, KG, Amare, whoever were all drafted, just not by the nuggets. I am way too young to remember any English/Fat days so I cant comment on that.
Disconnected from reality
Issel was traded for at the end of his career
Issel played 5 seasons for the Kentucky Colonels and 10 seasons for the Nuggets. How is that traded for at the end of his career? While Issel had lost some of his atheleticism by the time he got to the Nuggets, he still played his best games for the Nuggets.
Playing for the Colonels was sort of a rigged deal. The ABA made arrangements behind the scenes to make sure Issel would play in Kentucky for the benefit of the league.
The trade for Issel was screwy too. They basically traded Dave Robisch for him but the team they traded him to folded before they ever played a game. They got Robisch back later.
"Woohoo Denver, Yeah... All right Denver justify my love!" ...Homer Simpson
"Denver isn't considered a frontier maam, not these days"... Josh Randall (Steve McQueen) in an episode of Wanted Dead or Alive set in 1871, filmed in 1958.
I'll turn the comment the other way... which players are you referring to?
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
there were great players
who can forget my boy Chris Jackson, or Machmoud Abdul Rauf if you will… ahh the glory days.. now that was a team with no defense.. but there were tacos every damn night.. lol..
QPU member # 3.14 or 6x10tothe23rd
I think it's become apparent that teams will wait out the Nuggets on a possible trade
there’s no guarantee that Melo will go to New York and it’s possible he could go to another contender. If he decides to leave.
But I will say again that these trades are a JOKE….no team is offering jack squat in terms of value. I will reiterate that maybe it’s time for us as Nuggets fans to face up to some cruel truths….we are gonna have to play the season out.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I got no issues playing out another season with Melo
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
by Joelsopinion on Sep 2, 2010 10:09 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
the truth is not so cruel
nice posts, jpage, but I don’t think just “playing the season out” is a raw deal for the Nuggs.
1) Expiring Melo and JR will have to play, not sulk, if they want big money under a less avantageous future CBA. If you’re a GM, are you going to offer max money to Melo after he pouted through a season while making 18M? That prospect could make this season Melo’s best ever.
2) A probably washed-up Kmart could be cashed in at deadline for a good supporting piece and 8M in cap space. Denver, well over 500 at mid-season, gets better and makes a strong run for homecourt advantage.
3) After losing a heartbreaker to the f**king Lakers in the 2nd round, Melo realizes he’s on a damn good team, re-signs for max of 15M under new CBA. Denver gains 3M in cap space.
4) We let JR walk, for another 6M in cap space, plus 3 from Melo and 8 from Kmart, allowing Nuggs to sign a veteran big who’s a character guy – and save money.
5) We trade Balkman to the Lakers for a 2nd round pick, hoping he can ruin their locker room.
So, letting the Melo-JR-Kmart contract situation roll forward could be a recipe for (dare I say it?) DYNASTY !!
I bet they blink, though, and trade Melo for some lawn clippings. Alas.
Trade Balkman to the Lakers so he can sweat all over their towels.
Oh wait, he never has a reason to sweat.
good article JPage
it made me ask how many games we would’ve won if AD would’ve gone with Ty instead of AC down the stretch.
You've got in my ear jpage
It does us no good whatsoever to get crumbs in return for a player of Melo’s caliber just to make his agents happy. If Melo tanks the season as a final FU to the FO then that shows his character flaws. Unless we get fair market trade for Melo, i.e. another star that has as many accolades as Melo, then we hold on to him and his contract until he actually has a say at the end of the season. A contract is binding and Carmelo should honor it. Here’s ho[ping that in any event the FO makes a push for a big to anchor the defense. That’s something we’ll need if Melo stays or goes.
FIGJAM Bitches!
Via con Dios Brody
Q.P.U. # π
Article from Mark "I'm up Cuban's ass" Stein....on ESPN
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/19614/melo-sweepstakes-sorry-haven%E2%80%99t-started-yet
They’ve already had one press conference in Denver this week, but that will almost certainly be the only one.
The Nuggets and new vice president of basketball operations Masai Ujiri, just introduced Tuesday to the local media, are not close to announcing a Carmelo Anthony trade.
Sorry to disappoint again: Anthony isn’t even on the market.
Not yet, anyway.
Two things I take from this:
All the offers have been utter crap (like I said) and Ric Bucher is a bottom feeding carp who pulls stuff from his ass.
"If there's a new way....I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time...." Peace Sells....but Who's Buying
Proving that you can be gay and not like Madonna, and rock out to Metal. .
Quitter's People United Member # 78
I wonder if Kobe put Bucher up to this
because I’m pretty sure Bucher would be in a “1 Kobe 1 cup” video if Bryant asked him to.
Disagree
I don’t agree with the “doing nothing” plan:
1.) We might have a “good year” with Melo but still won’t beat the Lakers with the squad we have – sorry but with or without George Karl – I don’t see us beating Kobe’s group
2.) If Melo wants to be a Knick its perfect for him if we do nothing cause by February he has only 2 more months and HE GETS TO CHOOSE and so we get nothing cuz Melo says he won’t sign an extension with any team since the time to go to the Knicks is short.
3.) The assumption we will “get junk in return” has no validity as of now. The players and draft picks I’ve been hearing about from NJ, Houston, Clippers, aren’t scrubs.
4.) If Melo doesn’t really want to be in Denver, won’t it show in his play? Won’t his teammates realize that he’s not vested in the team?
5.) No, sorry but if Melo’s meeting with Ujiri doesn’t go well and he still wants to be traded, I say move him before the season starts – getting good players.
Ujiri
Will Ujiri chance already being the new guy AND then being the new guy that traded Carmelo Anthony away for a song? No way.
Great post jpage!
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
for the first time i'm glad the FO is doing nothing
so i invest in this
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win/loss records do not matter when you have a magnificent bastard
"If my players don't start producing there'll be more fireworks around here by the Fourth of July than anyone can imagine." The Boss (1982)
"The next time you drive me to the wall, I'll throw you over it."
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It's better for Melo to stay in the West
Melo needs to understand it’s going to be very diificult to find a better place than Denver if he really wants a championship.
In the East, obviously Miami and Orlando will be a contender every year. Chicago could be a scary team as Rose blossoms. Atlanta has a good core group and already won 53 games last season.
But in the West, Kobe may have few more years left in his tank, but obviously Laker dynasty is soon to be over unless they pull off another fraud trade. Phoenix and San Antonio are on the downside with aging Nash and Duncan. Dallas will make trade every year and get lost in the playoffs. May be Oklahoma will be the force in the West.
If Denver could add legit big and lockdown defender with cap space next season, I think Denver will be very close to its first Championship.
good point
I think west is still the best but after this season that will change and it will finally turn for the eastern conference and the easiest oppurtunity will be here
good point indeed
there really are some tough squads in the East now, so Melo will be better off in Denver duking it out with the Thunder and Blazers as the Lakers, Suns and Spurs fade.
If Ujiri can convince Melo that they will aggressively seek a big this season, Melo should do some math. The new CBA, lockout or no, will surely limit max contracts to less than what Melo makes now, and much less then the 22M per year that’s currently on the table.
Does he really want to take a pay cut of 15-20 million dollars over the next 3 years for the privilege of playing for a rebuilding team in a conference where the top 2 spots are locked up?
Stop Tweeting and start thinking, Melo man!
Why not Krstic?
Nenad, a pretty good 7-footer, may be redundant on the Thunder, who also have Ibaka, Mullens and now Cole Aldrich. He happens to be on the last year of a $6M contract, like JR, although you might need a third team to get it done if OKC doesn’t want JR.
Just a thought, to emphasize the fact that Denver might well do something while doing nothing on the Melo front. If it’s the right thing, he will re-sign.
not the right thing, IMO
as a comparison, when the Lakers were trying to keep Kobe, they got Pau.
I’m not saying we need to get someone of Pau’s caliber, but Krstic will consistently get manhandled. He’s not horrible, but he’s not athletic, and he is certainly not impressive. He’s actually a 7-footer who would not improve the Nuggets roster, I think. I’d hate to lose JR’s firepower for this.
That guy likes throwing chairs
No way!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9O9FjX5ewM
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
"I don't want to be like Brett Favre. I don't want to be like Old Yeller, when they take you behind the barn and shoot you." -Hines Ward-
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
If you're thinking of getting him for the sake of getting him that'd be fine
Not likely since it’d be a trade within the division; but his contract is expiring and you could always do a “take our headache for your headache” type of deal since his money is comparable to JR’s. I’ve not heard anything about OKC not being happy with him.
As a deal to try to impress Melo? I agree the is not something that will entice Melo to stay.
Though I do believe that Krstic is more accurate throwing chairs than JR was launching 3point bricks last year (JR was almost #100 in 3pt % though he was something like #3 in 3pt attempts.)
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
so where was Krstic on the throwing chairs list?
He must’ve been near the top…
Dude's a gold medalist
Bobby Knight pulled in the silver… the old Hoosier’s got heart but doesn’t have the distance anymore.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Trailer Trash Lady from Every Jerry Springer Show Episode ever recorded got the Bronze
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Butch Cassidy
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Wow! Never saw that video!
Temper, temper, Nenad.
He might not be right for the Nuggs overall, but we could sign him with a bonus for hitting Kobe, Pau or even Bynum (in the knee) with a chair. Although he may end up on Jerry Springer first.
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