What's next for Denver?
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 10, 2010 10:41 PM MDT
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PrintWe all know the story of the Denver Nuggets last two seasons; as talented as any team in the league, but for every bit of talent, just as volatile and inconsistent. Some nights they come out and beat the Lakers, in LA, sans their best player. Others... Well... Let's just go through what they have.
Legit NBA Superstar in Carmelo Anthony? Check.
Coach with over 900 regular season wins in Geroge Karl? Check.
6th Man of the Year candidate in JR Smith? Check.
One of the most fearsome and versatile defenders in the league in Kenyon Martin? Check.
One of the most steady, consistent PG's in the game, and widely considered the league's best leader in Chauncey Billups? Check.
Arguably top 5 Center in the league in Nene? Check.
Former Executive of the Year in Mark Warkentien? Check.
Lockdown perimeter defender in Arron Afflalo? Check.
Those are all very good pieces, and most of all, they are all integral parts in any championship team. The scorer, the leader, the voice, the brain, the x-factor, the fallback option and the supporting cast.
Carmelo Anthony, undoubtedly the most well-rounded offensive player in the game, still gets questioned on his leadership abilities and defense.
George Karl, despite being 14 wins off 1000 career coaching wins, has never made the NBA Finals.
Chauncey Billups is soon to be 34, and has visibly been tired in the Nuggets' last two playoff campaigns.
The Nuggets seemingly have the talent, and they no doubt have the desire. Who knows, if George Karl wasn't suddenly ripped from his troops due to cancer late this season, who's to say they don't go back to the Conference Finals? No knock against Adrian Dantley, but he's not in the mold of George Karl, and whatever it is that Karl does for the Nuggets, it works.
So, the question inevitably looms: What's next for the Denver Nuggets?
- Do they stay still, retain the core of the team, and hope health prevails in players and coaching staff and gear for another run? Their current free agents are Anthony Carter, Joey Graham, Johan Petro, Malik Allen and Kenyon Martin has an Early Termination option in his contract, though it is highly doubtful he exercises that option. Graham showed that he can be a valuable bench player while spelling Melo, Carter provides a veteran voice, Petro provides rebounding and length and still has upside. Malik Allen gives you Tacos.
- Do they make a couple of solid moves, get the defensive bigman and consistent inside scoring the fanbase has been screaming for the last 2 seasons to help take the weight off of Melo? The team has recently tried to acquire Tyrus Thomas from the Bulls, but he ended up in Charlotte, though it should be noted he is a restricted free agent this offseason. Michael Beasley could also be had for the right price, and with many Denver fans calling for the ouster of JR Smith, the Nuggets do have pieces.
Or...
- Do they make a big trade to land a prime player? Amare Stoudemire is not exercising his player option this offseason, and the word is being thrown around amongst Denver fans how his ability to finish inside would keep the defenses honest.
Personally, I think option #2 is the most viable, when Denver's two biggest needs are taken into account. They need a lengthy defensive bigman, and another versatile inside scorer, so the defense cannot key in on Carmelo Anthony.
Miami is listening to offers for Beasley, and Denver has expiring contracts and JR Smith. Tyrus Thomas is, as aforementioned, a free agent that Denver will no doubt be keeping tabs on. Jermaine O'Neal is another guy who could help. A defensive minded, lengthy inside defensive presence that can also score.
Something I think has some merit to it. Trade JR Smith in a package to somehow get Xavier Henry. He is basically JR with his head screwed on, and he has gobfuls of potential, and he wants to be the best. Bring in Tyrus Thomas or Michael Beasley, and that there gives us youth, and also fixes two of our biggest problems.
Denver, we have one interesting offseason ahead of us, and personally, I'm expecting big things.
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Option two
Im still convinced we can go all the way with a couple of moves. A defensive big and a new 2nd or 3rd scoring option would do it. Also Xavier Henry would be great. I think he will get drafted by the hornets as they need a good wingman. Any possible trades we could do for their pick?
I wouldn't mind Amare
If we could land him without giving up Nene, but that doesn’t seem likely. The biggest things the nuggets need are size and health. They have a few pieces to work with (expiring contracts of JR and K-mart, young cheap talent in Lawson and AAA). I’d like to see them move JR, I think he’s exhausted his welcome here and he is also a piece that can be moved because he is talented and has an expiring contract. K-mart’s massive expiring contract I would rather see us keep. There are some decent RFA’s in the 2011 offseason who we could make a run at. Ideally the Nuggets use JR to get us into the draft where we can pick up a young scorer to replace him with. We use the mid level to pick up an Amir Johnson or Drew Gooden type of player and use K-mart’s expiring at the end of next year to lock down a a quality big man.
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
why wouldn't you give up Nene for Amare?
what does he do so well that Stoudemire doesn’t?
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 11, 2010 8:57 AM MDT up reply actions
That causes more size problems.
We’re already undersized in the frontcourt, and Nene making way for the smaller Amare doesn’t help. A Melo-Nene-Amare frontcourt would be the league’s best.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 11, 2010 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions
It's not about measurables
It’s about how big the players play. And Amare’ obviously plays a lot bigger than Nene ever has or will.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 1:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah that's true.
But the problem for us is defense and length. Amare would come in and bring obviously a much better offensive option, but we all saw this playoffs, our problem is our big’s defense sans K-Mart.
I still want Amare, but for me that means we have to get rid of Nene and get someone in the mold of Jermaine O’Neal, Tyrus Thomas (who’s been playing a bit of Center for Charlotte and doing well) or Tyson Chandler, Brendan Haywood etc.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 12, 2010 7:13 AM MDT up reply actions
Yes Mr. Winchcomb yes
The problem with sacrificing Nene for he sake of Amare is that is a lateral move with a small amount of offensive improvement. The Nuggets with Amare are a better team but not a championship team
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
I can't see JR going to Chicago again
but I do like the idea of sending him to the Bobcats as Stephen Jackson’s backup.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 11, 2010 9:01 AM MDT up reply actions
kmart
denver needs to have his replacement before he is traded. tyrus thomas should be unrestricted. the question is does denver use the mid level exception or do a sign and trade? i look for denver to keep kmart and benefit from his expiring deal.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
Tyrus' an RFA.
His contract is a restricted one. No word from Charlotte what they want to do with him though. There’s alot of other options this offseason flying under the radar because of whole LeBron/Wade/Bosh fiasco, but Tyrus is young and brings alot to the table for us.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 11, 2010 6:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Yep.
Tyson Chandler’s agent has said that he (Tyson) is considering exercising his option so he can hit the FA market and go to a contender, so there’s another guy who could potentially help us.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 12, 2010 6:55 AM MDT up reply actions
earl smith
the big issue with him is doing something totally stupid AGAIN off the court. chicago is looking to trade their 1st round pick (#17) to give themselves additional dollars to sign free agents. bulls also need a shooting guard to replace ben gordon. chicago strikes out with the top tier free agents they could take a chance on smith. bobcats could be another destination place for him. mike jordan as the owner and larry brown is the head coach. if those 2 guys cannot get through to smith nobody can.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
I don't see Chicago taking Smith again
I do like the idea of him going to the Bobcats though as Stephen Jackson’s backup.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 11, 2010 9:02 AM MDT up reply actions
that is very sound reasoning and logic on your part
but we are talking chicago. this is the same organization that broke up a double threepeat championship team and hired vinny del negro as head coach. the most attractive thing about smith is his expiring contract. most off season moves will be determined by what lebron does. that being the case if the bulls and knicks strike out this summer smith gives them something until melo maybe goes the free agent route in the summer of 2011.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
anthony carter
if ac is replaced who is brought in? considering the talents of billups and lawson a pass 1st defender is a priority. do the nuggets go for a combo guard that gives them more flexibility? there are all kinds of talent available. one huge question is can the player be willing to ride the bench, see very limited minutes, be ready when and if he is ever needed, keep a positive attitude and not complain?
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
Anyone
Please. My 92 year old grandmother with dementia who thinks I’m my uncle would be a better option. At least the coach wouldn’t be tempted to actually play her.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Jun 12, 2010 11:26 AM MDT up reply actions
george karl
lost to the bulls in an nba finals. he will need to lengthen the rotation. less minutes for everybody to keep key players healthy for the playoffs and develop the bench players. pj carlisimo was signed as an assistant in toronto for $650 thousand. former head coaches can command between that and one million dollars for being an assistant. the coaching staff will remain the same unless ty corbin leaves utah and adrian dantley replaces him.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
That's the thing.
Getting Xavier Henry gives us those things. He’s a rookie, he can’t complain about getting streaky minutes.
who do you think we'll trade with
to get a draft pick? And what do we give up for the pick?
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 11, 2010 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions
kleiza or smith
twolves are the new pistons. remember ty lawson was the 18th pick of the draft.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
I don't think
Henry will be around at 16
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 11, 2010 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions
GSW is looking at Henry at #6...
he’s this years Stephen Curry… good scorer who will be doomed on the Warriors
I don't see why they would do that
unless they trade Monta Ellis. Doesn’t make much sense to have 3 ball needy guards on the same team.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 1:14 AM MDT up reply actions
good luck trading ellis and his contract
the warriors can be to shooting guards what the t-wolves are to point guards. there is always mark cuban.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
I
wasn’t saying it’d be easy. I was explaining why they wouldn’t pick Henry.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions
Well most have Xavier going in between 8-15
And someone above mentioned that he may be targeted by the Hornets which I think could be true. I think we might trade with either Indiana or Memphis. I think a future pick and JR should be enough to get either. I don’t see New Orleans taking another go with JR. Kenyon Martin’s salary comes in as valuable for cap resrictions in the way too. But if Kenyon goes, that leaves us with problems.
It would be a good move, as Xavier is essentially JR with his head on right, and he’s conistent and wants to get better than anyone. I’ve been quoted a fair few times saying I think he has a legit shot of being the best player in this draft.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 11, 2010 6:54 PM MDT up reply actions
We could trade JR, Butch, Karl and a TPE to get Cook, Beasley and Jones along with #18...
I think Miami would do it b/c it saves them around 5 million dollars while getting value for Beasley
personally I would rather keep Jr than beasleye
I'd take Beasley in a heartbeat.
His flunk in Miami has been overcalled, he’s not a fit for their system and doesn’t get consistent touches. He is an ELITE offensive talent, and could really take some heat off of Melo.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 11, 2010 7:00 PM MDT up reply actions
elite? rofl
He might have latent talent, but he is as big a headcase as JR. He is a project until he can put his head on straight. Beasley and Melo together are redundant.
by airchibundo507 on Jun 11, 2010 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Do you watch the NBA?
If so, you’ll know that stats are overrated, and that Beasley would be the perfect compliment to Melo. On what grounds are he and Melo redundant? Again, stats are overrated, and if you have watched Miami the last two years you’ll see Beasley is (again despite what stats say) a near top 10 talent offensively. Argue if you want, but I’m damn sure I’m not the only one who’s seen this.
Chauncey and Melo are a good one-two punch, but Chauncey is old and a perimter player, so teams can key in on him and still focus on Melo. Bringing in Beasley is bringing in someone who can shoot the ball as well as being a very effective post player. Having two guys like that on a team is a nightmare for a defense. He is a project, yes. But I’d much prefer a project bigman than a bipolar (albeit talented) 6th man.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 12, 2010 7:03 AM MDT up reply actions
i have been watching the nba since the 1960's
and they still play with only one basketball. they still have a basket on each end of the court for a total of 2. rebounding, passing and defense are things denver is in short supply. billups needs to be a pass first point guard and not the 2nd scoring option.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
Top five center my ass
(injuries aside)
Howard, Gasol, Duncan, Yao, Bynum, Bogut, Noah, Oden, Kaman, Brook Lopez
I don't think we can put injuries aside moving forward ... Yao and Oden have big uphill battles.
Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.
by Nate Timmons on Jun 11, 2010 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions
I said arguably.
Noah? no. Oden, definitely not. Bynum is overrated. Yao hasn’t played for over a season. Duncan’s a 4, so is Pau Gasol. So really that leavs Nene somewhere around 5-6.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 11, 2010 6:47 PM MDT up reply actions
Maybe it's just me
but I think Nene is the most overrated Nugget player. Why should he be considered a top 5 center in the entire league? For his offense? Overall he is an inconsistent scorer who is only comfortable taking open shots. Though he does have the ability to score in the post, often times he is either passive and unaggressive. For his defense? He might be a capable man defender against the more stationary, low post oriented scorers in the league, but put him out on the perimeter and he gets exposed (this problem wasn’t evident when KMart was mobile and had the task of guarding the Boshs/Wests/Boozers of the league). Boozer/Millsap ran circles around our bigs in the postseason, which is probably the biggest reason why we lost that series. On help defense, Nene does not contest shots around the basket. He is not willing to block out and rebound. What exactly does this guy excel at? He is a guard playing in a big’s body. I could care less about his steals and charges; I want him to be aggressive on the boards and contests shots in the paint area. Nene is one of the biggest reasons why this team is not as good as it should be. You guys are sippin’ Kool-Aid if you are still buying into his “potential”.
by airchibundo507 on Jun 11, 2010 10:46 PM MDT up reply actions
thank you
I couldn’t agree more. Get rid of him and get a legit big. I’m tired of watching him. He reminds me of the book Ferdinand, the bull that was huge but extremely soft.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 1:21 AM MDT up reply actions
Im sure the FO have tried that
But we cant get much of a better big without trading melo or chauncey. Nene may sadly be the best we can get at the moment. If we dont want Nene then what other team would want him? I have heard Minnesota say they want a more Athletic C and the guys at Canis Hoopus said they would do Al Jefferson for Nene and Kleiza. would that be an upgrade?
Nope
Jefferson’s an offensive power forward that doesn’t play defense or rebound very well.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions
He rebounds far better than Nene though
If he had the same contract as Nene he would be way better for us. Just saying though I dont see how we could get a legit center better than Nene without trading one of our top two guys. Hopefully this years draft will bring in alot of young talent in the frontcourt making the Veteran guys more avaliable
This draft is
extremely deep in terms of front court players. I’m excited. Hopefully we make some trades and pick up some steals in the draft.
Lol and saying Jefferson is a better rebounder than Nene isn’t saying a whole lot. I’m not sure we need Jefferson though, I think we just need a big defensive Center that can get a ton of boards.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions
I'm not buying into his potential.
I know right now he’s as good as he’s going to be Denver. He’s efficient, can hit a short midrange J, CAN block shots, is an above average inside defender. No, he’ll never have the aggressiveness to ever be a legit 2nd option, but he’s a pretty decent fallback option, and most of all, he’s consistent.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 12, 2010 7:06 AM MDT up reply actions
Consistently bad.
How is Nene efficent? Some nights he looks like an All-Pro player that he could be, other nights he looks worse than Tacos. He can’t hit a midrange shot consistently. HE CAN’T BLOCK SHOTS, and he’s not an above average inside defender.
Nene averages 1.43 blocks per 48 minutes. That’s terrible for a Center who plays 34 minutes a night. He definitely shows signs of promise with his offensive game, but so does JR. I find it hard to believe that Nuggets fans think that either of them will become anything. Nene has been in the league for 7 years now, how much time does he need to, “reach his potential?”
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
That's because Nene isn't a Center
But his stats are unacceptable. The guy shouldbe better then that.
J.R. Smith doesn’t show any promisee with is offensive game. We were expecting that to increase this year.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
J.R. Smith doesn’t show any promisee with is offensive game. We were expecting that to increase this year.
you were?
by lakerlover2by4 on Jun 14, 2010 7:05 PM MDT up reply actions
Everyone
was hoping that JR would become a lot more consistent last year, especially after his great games in the playoffs two years ago.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 15, 2010 3:05 AM MDT up reply actions
No no no
Noah. Yes
Oden. No
Bynum. Possibly (He’s much much better than Nene)
Yao. Yes when he plays
Howard. Yes
Bogut. Yes
Kaman. Yes
Lopez. Yes
Marc Gasol. Yes
Pau Gasol. Yes
Duncan. Yes
Stoudemire. Yes (Lol yes I did just say that even though he plays PF)
I can list tons of center off the top of my head that I’d rather have than Nene. What does Nene do so well? Defense, blocks no, steals yes. Scoring inconsistent. Above Average passer. Very vulnerable to injury. I would love to get rid of Nene ASAP>
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 1:19 AM MDT up reply actions
You listed 12 guys.
3 are power forwards. Two haven’t played for over half a season and are made of glass. One plays for the Nets. Bynum is OVERRATED. Anybody can go out and score 14 PPG when the defense is worried about Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol. The ONLY thing he has on Nene is blocking ability.
I’m not saying I want to keep Nene and that he’s the best, but you’re all acting like he’s a cancer, the problem of this team, which is just straight up lunacy.
by Jack Winchcomb on Jun 12, 2010 7:10 AM MDT up reply actions
To each his own, I guess
But I honestly believe Kobe and Gasol are holding Bynum back from reaching his full potential. Gasol was out with an injury at the start of the season, and over a 9 game span, Bynum was able to average 20.3 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 1.8 bpg, 2.3 TO, 54.7% FG. Essentially, Bynum would average 20/10 (at age 22) right now on a different team. Nene right now is a 14/8 player, and I’m not even sure he is going to improve.
Denver has better shooters and spacing than LA. Opposing defenses are concerned about stopping Carmelo, CB and JR, and one could argue that Nene and Bynum get similar isolation looks against single coverage in their respective halfcourt offenses. Bynum is just a more reliable post scorer, a great rebounder and a defensive presence. He isn’t even a smart defender, but since he is so freaking long, he makes a substantial impact regardless. A healthy Bynum is probably a top 2-3 center in the league. I really hope the guy gets his health together in the future.
by airchibundo507 on Jun 12, 2010 11:10 AM MDT up reply actions
Bynum is overrated?
BLOCKS PER 48
Bynum: 2.28
Nene: 1.43
POINTS PER 48
Bynum: 23.7 (57.0%)
Nene: 19.8 (58.7%)
FT MAKES/SHOT PER 48
Bynum: 4.69/6.34 (73%)
Nene: 5.10/7.25 (70%)
REBOUNDS PER 48
Bynum: 13.1 (4.30 offensive, 8.84 defensive)
Nene: 10.9 (2.89 offensive, 8.03 defensive)
STEALS PER 48
Bynum: 0.85
Nene: 3.53
TURNOVERS PER 48
Bynum: 2.79
Nene: 2.18
ASSISTS PER 48
Bynum: 1.65
Nene: 3.54
SIZE
Bynum: 7’0", 285 lbs
Nene: 6’11", 250 lbs
AGE
Bynum: 22
Nene: 27
The only place where Nene really excels over Bynum is Steals and Assists. This is because Nene’s skill set is better for a C and that Bynum’s skill set is better suited for a C. I don’t know about you guys, but I’d much rather have Bynum over Nene.
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 12:57 PM MDT up reply actions
pau gasol is a forward
but he can play the center postion.
by lakerlover2by4 on Jun 11, 2010 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions
so is nene
but we have gotten so used to him listed as a center that we have forgotten his natural position.
by airchibundo507 on Jun 11, 2010 10:38 PM MDT up reply actions
could we use the TPE to get into the draft?
Miami and atlanta would trade or sell picks for cap space. What about TPE and future pick for Daquan cook and #18. or TPE to Atlanta for Maurice Evans and the #24. Damion James would be avaliable then he would be a good back up to Melo. Minnesotas #23 pick would be easily avaliable also
Can you trade
a trade exception for a draft pick straight up?
by higgyhoops12 on Jun 12, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
I don't think so
But I bet the mavs would jump on that so fast
by Monkfish on Jun 12, 2010 7:16 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Heres an idea,
How about we trade Lawson to get into the draft!!
that sound like a great idea righto!
by InboundingLobPass on Jun 14, 2010 8:21 PM MDT reply actions
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