Linas Kleiza update
by runningdonut on May 7, 2010 8:16 AM MDT
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It really doesn't seem like too long ago LK was chucking threes in the powder blue, and the Nuggets expected to have him back this past season at a reasonable $2.7mil for a final year. Alas, our season is over and LK is still playing in Europe where he signed a two year, $12.2 million dollar contract about a year ago. With the offseason in full swing now we might as well examine where Kleiza is now and what he can do for the Nuggets in the future
Image from a fansite for Olympiacos "Reds" No idea what this says or means
What's Kleiza's Status with the Nuggets?
He's a restricted Free Agent, assuming the Nuggets tender another qualifying offer to keep his rights, which they almost certainly will. Kleiza cannot be used in any NBA trade while he is under contract in Europe. Kleiza can opt of the final year of $6.1 million contract with Olympiacos, but he won't have to before exploring the options during NBA free agency period. Trading Kleiza for something good would be very difficult, but not impossible. I explained why in a fanpost last year.
How did Kleiza do over in Europe
In the 20 game Euroleague season, Kleiza averaged 17.3 ppg, good for the overall scoring title. He also grabbed 6.4 rebounds a game, shot 55% from two and 35% from three. Quite simply LK was a legitimate MVP candidate in his first year over there. Keep in mind it's harder to get monster numbers where players generally average less minutes and get less shots than they would in the NBA. As of now, LK stands out as a success story for ex-NBA players coming over to have an immediate impact. Kleiza will play May 7 in Paris during the Euroleague Final Four for the Olympaicos "Reds" if you're interested in watching. I think it will be on NBATV. Check out Eurobasket.net for details.
Will the Nuggets bring him back?
Kleiza almost had a 4 year, $25 million extension with the Nuggets before the deal was called off prior to the Chauncey Billups trade. Seeing as how LK would make $6.1 million to stay another year in Greece, his agent would be looking for a deal in the same ballpark to come back. Nuggets have the right to match any offer to Kleiza within seven days or agree to sign and trade him. Ultimately, it's up to Linas whether or not he comes back to the NBA or gets traded. It's too early to answer this question with any sort of certainty right now, but I'll make some guesses in the next sections
Other factors
A few months ago I read that Kleiza enrolled in University as part of a program for professional athletes. I used to have a link to this, but I can't find it anymore. I would need some help on the research but it's unknown if this could affect his decision on where to play next year. With the prospect of a new CBA next year, NBA agents will be looking to lock their players up in big multi-year contracts while they can. It's possible LK's agent could push him to sign now rather than later. Also, Greece (the country where Kleiza's team plays) is kind of in serious trouble right now. Their government just recieved a $145 billion rescue bailout. How this affects professional basketball over there I'm not sure, I haven't thought about that shit. But it's something to consider.
My Guess on what happens
The price to bring Kleiza back would be sort of high. Especially for a guy that's averaged 8.3 points and 3.5 rebounds in the NBA. Right now, there are much more important things to worry about than whether or not to bring LK back. As long as JR and Kenyon remain on the roster, there's not enough room or money to make him an offer. Unless things change, Kleiza should hope another team wants him enough to give Denver an asset, or overpays to the extent where we would be crazy to match the offer. If it were me as the Nuggets GM, I'd be entertaining trades for Kleiza but in no hurry to sign him. In fact, I'd give the money to Joey Graham instead.
Linas Kleiza clearly has the talent to play in the NBA. It's a question of whether he wants to earn his stripes and his money the hard way, and meet Denver halfway on a reasonable offer to come back. Ersan Ilyasova came back to the Bucks from the Euroleague on a 3 year, $7 million dollar deal. Clearly he wanted to be back in the NBA, he sacrificed and it's been a resounding success. In LK's case, I somehow think we can expect him to take the money and run.... to Greece for another year that is.
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We can't get Kleiza for a good price...
Because there’s too many teams interested in him. He was the Euroleague’s leading scorer with Olympiakos, and the Nets and the Bobcats seem to be interested in him, and he could work well as a 4 in Mike D’Antoni’s system (of course after NY signs Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer to maxinum deals…that’s right, they’re not getting Lebron because of Stern). They might get Bosh, but not Wade.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
Toronto, Knicks and Nets are good team options
Similar to the gossip last year, Kleiza could be used as part of a package to get a David Lee or someone comparable (I won’t even dare mention Bosh).
For the Knicks who may want to hord cap space for next year too, you could trade Kleiza’s rights to a team (to sweeten a deal) he stays overseas next year and the team gets skill without it hitting their 2010 salary cap…. Genius!
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
former nba players have been stiffed on their contracts
during the preseason there were attempts to seize assests of that team when they came to the united states to play in exhibitions. kleiza is in an interesting situation. he can void his contract in greece to put himself in play as a restricted free agent for the nba. if he does it and it is a huge IF denver can deal him. if kleiza gets a crappy offer and wants to go back to europe the teams can low ball him. josh childress needed permission to shop himself around the nba from atlanta so he would not have to void his contract. do not look for denver to do kleiza any favors in that regard. it will be interesting to see how things play out. right now the ball is in kleiza’s court. your move linas and good luck.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
we're on a mission from god
Good player but the problem with Kleiza in the NBA continues to be...
He’s not a bench player. He has the skill to be a starting SF in the NBA. But he’s not a SG, not a PF and not a 6th man. Coming off of the bench Kleiza’s game suffered because he could not handle being a role player. Some can and excel in that role, some can’t and struggle.
So you have the same dilemma you had when you drafted him, the only position he can play is SF and the Nuggets already have one of those in Melo.
My vote is trade him, he has value. I have no interest in re-signing him.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
no to kleiza
how can people want to trade JR but bring in Kleiza.
JR is capable, yet undisciplined on defense. Kleiza is just a straight sieve. He’s a tweener with no natural fit to a certain position, and not enough amazing athleticism to transcend positions.
I think people are being a little hasty in jettisoning Kleiza. It costs us nothing to sit and wait on him, so I don’t see any reason to try to bail him now. Patience is the name of the game here.
I don’t think that Kleiza is as bad of a defender as he is made out to be, and if he is, I think his above average rebounding might be a factor. He’s not the athlete JR is, but I think he’s generally a more consistent, if poorer, player. If we can trade JR (possibly to get into the draft) and entice Kleiza back with contract value roughly equal to his Euroleague contract with the promise of additional playing time due to JR being vacated, I think that’s a move the Nuggets should make.
by George Karl Marx on May 3, 2010 10:04 PM MDT reply actions
Though you're going to have the same problems with Kleiza when he was here?
When he spot-started he was fine. But playing him as a SG failed, playing him as a 6th man failed and he’s not big enough to be a PF.
I understand the reasoning; but I don’t see it. Kleiza isn’t mature enough to be a role player off of the bench. To be fair that makes him no different than about 80% of the NBA players. Those that “get it” really excel off the bench. Other’s never get it.
I just don’t see the benefit in keeping Kleiza if Melo is here. and I sure wouldn’t get rid of Melo just so Kleiza can play.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
I wouldn't pay so much for him to come back.
Besides, Mr. Joey “Hulk Smash” Graham has proven that he can play.
What Would Brian Boitano Do?
Joe Pavelski IS God!
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Different skill sets
There’s definitely room on the roster for those type of players with differing skills. Graham understands his role on the team. Kleiza never could.
Maybe it was a sense of entitlement because he went to college with the owner’s son…
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Well, we didn't trade Kleiza for David Lee because our owner and our coach lobed Kleiza
food for thought
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
by LACK on May 4, 2010 6:18 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Which demonstrates why
George Karl and Stan Kroenke should not be asked for their opinions in personnel.
I really don’t care that Kleiza was the college roommate of Son-of-Stan. That doesn’t make him a better Nugget than David Lee would be
And I don’t care what Karl’s opinion is for the same reason why I don’t trust Larry Brown’s opinion in personnel matters. He’s a coach not a judge of talent (gee no I think we’d really rather keep Ray Allen rather than trade him for Gary Payton… you don’t like it George, well you know a lot of other teams have already fired you… are you looking to add to that collection?)
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Wow, awesome beard.
"All by their heads, he places crowns."
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
Quitter's People United Member #18
by Tempestuous Binary on May 4, 2010 12:01 AM MDT reply actions
We missed Kleiza this year
A bench of Ty, JR, LK, Bird and Petro would have been very nice. Last year, when JR was off, LK would usually be on, and vice versa. We could always count on one on those guys giving much needed scoring off the bench. A bench like that extends leads which gives your starters needed rest. He is showing his value now in Europe. The problem with the Nugs at the moment is that they cant afford to pay al these guys.
I feel like this line of thinking may be incorrect
I’ve seen the “whenever JR was off, LK would be on” argument in a lot of places and I just don’t think it’s true. Sure, key games (such as in the run to the WCF last year) made it seem that way…but I think our memories might be skewed away from what really happened.
Which is, JR played well in a good portion of the games, and LK generally sucked. But he’d drop 40 every once in a blue moon to keep you interested. He’s basically JR if JR were taller and worse.
Quitter's People United: Member 12
by Uh on May 4, 2010 1:53 PM MDT up reply actions
I disagree
I realise Kleiza was not popular here, but he is a talented player that is proving himself right now in Europe. Averaging 18 ppg in Europe is not easy. Shots are much more evenly distributed and it is more of a team game over there. LK does not suck. He just needs the right situation. Production in key games that could have helped spark a run to the WCF is exactly what we needed this year. You cant just ignore what he did in the playoffs last year. Some games we didnt play him much, and he didnt do anything but when we needed him he came through. Part of Denver’s power last year came from the sheer depth of scoring we had. There is no doubt that the bench this year was much worse. The only upgrade was Ty over AC. I for one would have liked to have had him. But I also want to keep Nene and JR so call me crazy. People love a scapegoat. Last year it was Kleiza, this year its Nene and JR.
+1
Kleiza really struggled to fit in last year. But one thing I never forgot about him – he was always ballin’ against the Lakers. Look at his stats from the 07-08 playoffs where we were swept – 14 pt, 6.5 rebounds on 53% shooting. Those 2 games we won in the WCF last year against the Lakers, Kleiza scored double figures and I remember him hitting some HUGE shots down the stretch. Obviously the guy can play and the numbers suggest that the Lakers didn’t have an answer for him
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Kleiza was missed only on paper
Again, the only position he plays is SF; anything else (SG, PF, 6th man) he struggled.
Are you really going to cut Melo’s minutes simply for the sake of Kleiza?
Not me, not last year, not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow or in the future.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
By the way, thanks fot the Kleiza update
Nice post. Rec’d
Greek bankruptcy
Don’t forget that Greece is completely broke. So I guess the clubs wont be trowing their money at players any longer. the thing in europe is that none of your money is really guaranteed. althoug they say it is. just look at former nba players who complain about not getting all of their money or left teams after just a few weeks.
Mentioned it briefly
It’s hard to know if it really affects the super rich ownership groups of these teams, which may not even be Greek. But I’m pretty sure it has an impact on anyone living and working in Greece, so good call. Thanks for the link
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
I always liked Kleiza
even got myself a Kleiza jersey. I hope we get him back and I hope he’s improved his game overseas. If we plan on trading JR (which it sounds more and more likely by the day) then Kleiza’s scoring could help alleviate the loss of JR.
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
As far as I can tell
It says Pisto Linas, it says something linas that I am sure
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Thanks man
I still don’t get the picture, probably never will
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Others?
What other players to we own the “rights” to? I know there have been other guys we’ve drafted that never came to the NBA… Perhaps this would be a good topic for a fanpost for someone with more knowledge than me.
Others are gone
There were a couple of “project” players (why is it the Nugs are the only team that can’t draft projects that actually develop overseas…) but they’re have all moved on. The last was part of the Afflalo trade last year.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Nope
Don;t like LK… I would sure like to trade him for David Lee though… oh wait… Denver managed to fuck that one up.
"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"
Quitters People United Member #71
by Garrett Olsen on May 4, 2010 9:52 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Is no one else bothered by the fact that he basically quit on the Nuggets & the NBA cus it was too hard?
The guy had his moments (though they were few and far between last year – bad as JR was this year, LK was much worse), but when he bounced to go play in Europe, that told me everything I need to know about him as a competitor.
I don’t care if he’s averaging triple doubles and throwing down 360 dunks every other night in Euroball – I don’t want any part of this guy.
He didn't quit on the Nuggets.
He left for a job that would pay him more and also let him play more. I think every player plays to actually PLAY and to also get as much money possible. I’m not bothered by it at all. I would’ve done the same thing.
by higgyhoops12 on May 4, 2010 11:09 PM MDT up reply actions
How is it any different
from a baseball player who’s hitting .250 in the majors deciding to drop down to AAA so he can bat .300? This isn’t some high school kid going overseas to get a little pre-NBA seasoning – this is a guy who spent years playing with the best of the best, couldn’t hack it, and rather than raise his game, decided he’d rather dominate at the kids table than continue get it handed to him with the grown-ups.
As for playing time and making more $, he had ample opportunity to get both during his time with the Nuggets. He wasn’t good enough to warrant either.
consider that Linas gets 6 millinons euros year
which equates to about 9 million a year US. The nuggets offered him what 2.7 million? Come on man, you’re telling me that you, me, or any other player wouldn’t take a 7 million dollars (or about 300%0 pay raise. Please, we’d all do that. The NBA was cash strapped and no one was spending, he got a better deal to play in Europe, which is WHERE HE WAS BORN AND IS FROM! He was never a head case like JR, never. He had one bad year and the whole fan base threw him under the bus. I would have left to. Lins most certainly COULD hack it in the NBA, he was a regular rotation player and while you may want to write of his contributions to this team, I will not. I met Linas once in Fort Collins, he came to the restaurant I worked at and just so happened to sit in my section. He was polite, signed a menu (which I didn’t ask him for, I simply told him I was a huge Nuggets fan and a fan of him and had a Kleiza jersey) and gave me a tip that was equal to the cost of his entire bill, which is more then can be said about a lot of the other Denver Nuggets and Broncos (my sister has worked in some of the fine dining restaurants in Denver and has waited on Denver Pro’s a lot) in fact quite often most of them are jerks (Ian Gold though, was also a class act). Point is he didn’t quit on anybody, the fans and the Nuggets quit on him.
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Never said he wasn't a nice guy
And he’s got every right to go play in a league with inferior talent for more $. But like it or not, that choice says something about him as a player and a competitor – namely, that he’d rather play in a league where he knows he can dominate as is for a biggger paycheck than put in the work necessary to do it amongst the sport’s elite.
How does this say anything about him as a competitor?
Please try to tell me that you wouldn’t leave your job right now to have your dream job and get paid 3.5 times as much.
by higgyhoops12 on May 7, 2010 12:29 AM MDT up reply actions
It says something about him as a competitor in that his primarily goal is to get paid
Not be the best player he can be. Pretty much any mid-level player in the NBA could go over to Europe and make more $ and almost none of them do, and that’s because they value playing with the best of the best over the paycheck.
And please, do you really think Kleiza considers playing pro ball in Greece his “dream job”? Of course not. His dream job would be to make the $ he’s making now in the NBA – he’s just not good enough to warrant it here.
He's going to get better by having tons of minutes in the Euro leauge
compared to coming off the bench in the NBA.
Again, Kleiza is european
Imagine you working over in Europe and then someone saying “well we’re not the best company but we will pay you 3 times what you make to come back to the states where you will get to get more experience.” Would you be like, oh no thanks I want to be under appreciated, under paid and under utilized to work for the best company an ocean away from my home
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Another thing to consider
Many Euro clubs outright pay the taxes in addition to what the player is owed, meaning (ignoring the exchange rate, agent fees, etc.) that Kleiza’s $6M there is all take home vs. roughly only 60% of that here in the States.
Greece is a shit mess right now with some big changes coming to their corrupt tax system, so you better believe things are changing there whether wealthy or not.
My girlfriend’s brother used to bounce at a swanky club downtown and said Linas was always shitfaced and playing himself up like a baller, wearing sunglasses at night, goldchains, and the like (ah, the gold old A.I. era). Funniest thing the brother told me was that one night Linas managed to fall down a flight of stairs at their club and had to be helped up with a goofy grin across his face. He also said Chauncey was classy and low profile, with the exception of massive bling in his ears.
by Artimus Mangilord on May 7, 2010 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions
I would rather start for a team, make a name for myself in a league, and triple my salary
than be a player off the bench and get paid diddily squat compared to what I could be getting.
Nice in theory - but can you name a single NBA player who's actually done this?
You know – played a few decent, but unremarkable seasons in the league, bounced to Europe, then came back to take the NBA by storm? I sure as hell can’t.
Brandon Jennings if you count him
He played in Europe instead of going to college and he turned out to be pretty good this year.
Who said Kleiza was going to take the NBA by storm? I’m not in favor of keeping Kleiza. I say give him some playing time next season and if he plays great keep him, if he doesn’t trade him. I’m sure some teams have interest.
But your statement, “Kleiza quit on the Nuggets” is extremely wrong. He did what was best for him, just like every other player in the NBA.
by higgyhoops12 on May 7, 2010 12:27 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't count Brandon Jennings
He’s very good, but he went to Europe as an alternative to college – it’s a completely different situation. If Jennings goes back after a few years of not quite measuring up in the NBA, then you’ll have something.
Good point
Jennings only went to Europe to skirt the 1year college rule… apples & oranges argument there.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
Linas´s in the Final Four
Tomorrow, Linas Kleiza will play the Final Four with his team, Olympiacos.
There is a good analyze of the event, written by an important european´s agent he worked for players like PJ Brown, Dino Radja, etc. the article is in english
New York is looking at Kleiza (idk why, he's like a poor man's gallinarili)
Knicks’ Walsh Scoping Talent in Europe
Posted: 5/8/2010 7:38:00 AM
Source: Marc Berman of the New York Post
While the Knicks coaching staff began conducting pre-draft workouts yesterday in Westchester, president Donnie Walsh had bigger fish to fry across the pond in France.
Walsh, who flew to Paris on Thursday for the European Final Four, has his eyes not just on draft prospects but on 2010 free agents, forward Linas Kleiza and Josh Childress, the athletic wing formerly of the Hawks, as well as Minnesota point guard Ricky Rubio of Spain.
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=NBA&c=1&TEAM_ID=&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20100508#STORY_25962#ixzz0nLoBSOcW
but hey, maybe they would want to work out a sign and trade, either Lee or Chandler for Kleiza
lol yes please
I don’t think they’ll trade Lee for Kleiza though.
by higgyhoops12 on May 8, 2010 10:05 AM MDT up reply actions
not anymore!
should have struck the deal when we had the chance. I love Kleiza but Lee is the superior player. In the end I wouldn’t look too much into that story. I’m sure Walsh isn’t the only representative from the nba scouting the talent in the euro league playoffs. He just gets the coverage because its new york
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
Don't rule it out
The Knicks have no current plans to keep Lee on the roster. If the Knicks truly want Kleiza (let’s pray they do) they would use Lee to make the deal.
Here’s how it’d work. After the Knicks have made their FA wheeling & dealing (LeBron & Bosh or DWade & Bosh or whatever) they could then work a sign/trade with Denver. Lee for Kleiza, a future first & JR’s expiring contracts to make the numbers work.
Though, 1) I don’t see the Knicks doing that, they could make a better deal elsewhere. and
2) I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"
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