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Around SBN: Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire Vow To Fit In With Lin

The "Real" problems


After reading Andrews post about Lebron/Melo/Bosh I had to respond, fanpost style, on what the real issue is for the Nuggets.

PART 1: His name is Maybner "Nene" Hilario.

I've watched the last two weeks as everything from the Nuggets failure to get to the finals to the sorry state of morals in the American cinema get blamed on Carmelo Anthony by some people who frequently post on here. That's fine. I'm actually of a fan of the diversity of opinion on Denver Stiffs (unlike some other local sports blogs *cough*) and it's helped me clarify my own view of the Denver Nuggets and how they should go forward.

Travis Heath of Hoopsworld had an excellent column last week regarding what the Nuggets can do

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16162

In it he talks about the various odds and ends of the Nuggets off season including the Front Office situation as well as the need to get a big man and the many complications the Nuggets face because of their salary cap situation. When on with Sandy Clough last week Heath said one thing that stuck with me, "When has Carmelo Anthony ever played with a dominating post player?" The answer is, never. While dominating big men are few and far between nowadays....the "faith" in having Nene is what we as fans have been sold on by the organization. Not the other way around.

Chris Dempsy was also on with Clough earlier this week (I'm frequently quoting Sandy's show because he's the only sports talk host in Denver who is willing to go in depth about the Nuggets) and Dempsy said that a lesson we must learn from Lebron's recent horrid performances is that maybe people are who they are. We, as Nuggets fans, have been sold a bill of goods by the organization that Nene has only touched but a small percentage of his potential. That he is too quick, too athletic, too skilled for your average center. As Dempsy said....Nene, at his best, is only a 16 and 7 guy. If the Nuggets are to go anywhere....they need a 20 and 10 guy.

Remember earlier this year when the Nuggets players were quoted in that Denver Post article saying Nene needs to "dominate" Carmelo Anthony was prominently quoted saying the same thing. That Nene is too passive. How many times have we seen Nene receive a PERFECT pass two feet from the basket, only to completely turn his back to the basket and pass to the 3 point line? How many times have we seen Nene get boxed out to the point of oblivion while on defense? When will this change? If ever?

While we bitch, moan, complain about Melo...he has by and large been a victim of the high expectations we place on him and he on himself. Meanwhile, Nene has coasted along and has been constantly pumped up by the Front Office as some potential unstoppable force. After 8 seasons I think we all realize that the time to put up or shut up was last year. Now it's time to move on.

 

PART 2: The Evil that is Cancer

The Nugget's had systemic issues resulting from George Karl's cancer that we, as fans, can only appreciate in the slightest bit. I had the pleasure of meeting Chauncey Billups briefly after the Nuggets Game 5 this year. I asked him if he missed George, and Chauncey said "Man......more than anyone will ever know. We miss him alot" and that spoke HUGE volumes to me. While we as fans complain about the Nuggets not "rising to the occasion" we must take in to consideration that as a long time coach of one team, George is essentially team "dad". When you lose your guiding light, even if you disagree with him, you are constantly reminded every time you step on the court that he is gone. Every time you do an interview. Every time you look at that interim coach who, while he's trying his best, much like a step-father he will never be your true dad. We can lecture, and pontificate about how the Nuggets should have done this, or that, while George has been out.....but you need to ask yourself...what would "I" do in this situation? At this point, quite frankly, I'm proud the Nuggets were even able to win 53 games. One day someone will write the story about the end of this last season for the Nuggets, and maybe, just maybe we will all gain a greater appreciation for what they went through.

 

PART 3: The Bench that wasn't there

In High School I read alot of HP Lovecraft. In his stories there was always some "horror" from some dark and stygian place that was always indescribable....but the very sight of which will cause a man to go insane. That is how I view the Nugget's bench this season.

While we laud the performance of Ty Lawson this year....it occurred to me that he played much better with the starting unit than he did the bench. I think that's a great sign for Ty eventually taking over, but for the next two years while Chauncey is here....we need better bench cohesion. I have no complaints about Ty and I'm encouraged every time I see him play.

JR....he had maybe 10 good games this year. And it's sad. I'm not going any further than saying his attitude at the end of the series with the Jazz was despicable. It's corrosive to team chemistry. I think he will be dealt somewhere.

Chris "Birdman" Andersen was the second biggest disappointment to me after Nene. While Andersen was "injured" most of the year....when he was semi healthy he didnt play very well and watching him get shoved around like a rag doll while attempting to "box out" on a free throw was sad to say the least. He looked less motivated this year, and his actions at the end of game 4 left a seriously bad taste in my mouth. Also, while I got a sick pleasure out of him knocking the snot out of Derron Williams at the end of Game 6....it was a cheap shot. Chris needs to live up to his contract and play ever game like it's his last, like in 08-09. Otherwise his contract will look like an albatross for a long time.

The rest of the bench performed adequately in spot duty. Petro was both good and horrible. Joey Graham was great when he wasn't fouling. Balkman.....nevermind. Malik "Tacos" Allen was proof that at 193 years old you can still chuck up ill advised jumpers and have the strength to drag an entire team down with you. Amazing

In 08 09 our bench was a BIG energy asset....this year they were a liability. If the Nuggets are to improve at all next year....the bench is a HUGE must upgrade.

PART 4: Conclusion

THere are those who wish to fill our team with "plucky" "can do" players who "try hard" and have lots of "gumption" and very little talent. That's all well and good. When it comes down to it, the Nuggets must take advantage of the talent they have and amplify it with the RIGHT complimentary players who have both talent and heart. We can sit here and complain again and again about Carmelo....but the fact remains that he is the best player on the team....and having him makes us better. So if Melo walks out that door for whatever reason, I want us as fans to look at the situation that he leaves and know that the Nuggets, as an organization, did it's best to capitalize on the time he was here. Andrew made the erroneous ( in my opinion) conclusion that the Nuggets have "done their best to surround Melo with a team that can contend". While for one year that was true, the rest of the time has been filled with gimmicks (Iverson trade) and selling the fans on a wasted talent (Nene) This offseason is a critical one. Rather than whining about the "distraction" of Melo's free agency, how about the Front Office just put up or shut up.

If the organization shows that it's commited to putting together an excellent team....then the chances of the team advancing are greater....and the greater the chance is Melo will stay where he is. Those who wish that we could trade Melo for a bunch of "talentless try hards" (as I call them) will have to be greatly disappointed. And that will be fine with me.

Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.

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25+ other teams

have the same problem we have. a dominating big is hard to find.

i wonder how nene would do in a non “random” offense with a PG that is a facilitator. he’d probably put up better scoring numbers.

let's go nuggets! who u wit?

by 808inDenver on May 14, 2010 1:22 PM MDT reply actions  

He would still put up the same numbers

Nene gets his opportunities….he just passes out of them

"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2

"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple

Quitter's People United Member # 78

by jpage78 on May 14, 2010 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

An upgrade to our Bench can make up for Nene not being a dominant post player

Everyone has a right to be stupid. I just abuse the privilege.

Quitter's Proud United Member #11

by Mini Hulk on May 14, 2010 2:33 PM MDT reply actions  

It's not just that Nene won't score in the post

He doesn’t rebound or protect the basket. He is simply an overrated player.

by airchibundo507 on May 14, 2010 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not just a bench upgrade

But Nene as a Center is undersized. KMart as a PF is undersized. Having an undersized C alongside and undersized PF is a bad mix. Rather than covering for one another both players’ weaknesses are exposed even greater.

Nene is also not a natural rebounder, neither is KMart. Melo is the best rebounder on the team… the SF is the best rebounder.

That’s a huge problem.

Nene would be more productive with a natural rebounding defensive big alongside. But Nene will never be a star player… it is a problem from the neck up.

"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"

by the word on May 18, 2010 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions  

i know as fans it's our job to randomly complain about crap

but when you boil it all down, one realizes that the rule of 3 applies to the Nuggets just like it does every other team. Until that third piece comes in place (be it from trade, free agency or draft) then the Nuggets will become legit contenders

It’s my contention that Nene has been billed, by the front office, as that third piece of the puzzle. They have so far been proven to be mistaken

"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2

"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple

Quitter's People United Member # 78

by jpage78 on May 14, 2010 3:31 PM MDT reply actions  

Excellent point

All the Nugs have done is continue to swap out piece #2 (Miller for AI, AI for Billups) but they never pull the trigger on that 3rd piece so the Nugs never move forward.

They pray and hope and pray and hope that Nene or KMart becomes it and it just is not going to happen.

"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"

by the word on May 18, 2010 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

Inconsistencies...

Like I said in my thread…

We must eliminate “inconsistencies”. That’s the MAIN THEME of our off-season. Forget about everything else for the moment…

By eliminating inconsistencies, we IMPROVE. It’s addition by substraction. Then, think about what player(s) we can get in return for Nene and J.R.

If Ainge can get KG and Ray Allen for 5th pick and Al Jefferson (who was also “potential” then)… we should get close to those players. This can be championship deal and wheel moments.

What better embody that word in the whole league (so not only on Denver Nuggets team only) than Nene and J.R.? You have 2 most inconsistent players in the L in your team’s top 6 rotation, your team will be inconsistent as hell.

Obviously I am exaggerating when I say they’re the two most inconsistent players. But you get the idea… they’re among the most inconsistent.

If we can keep J.R. as a 7th man, hell yeah, I will do that. He still has that ability to turn a 1 pt game to a blowout in our favor in 2-3 minutes, easy. That’s a real weapon to have. But he can’t keep his role as the 6th man. We need more consistency from that position. If he fires and keeps missing, he can sit for the whole quarter. If he starts making shots, then he can keep playing. I have an idea where Ty starts, Chauncey becomes our 6th man (both to make sure we have enough offense off the bench, and to preserve his legs throughout the season).

But Nene cannot be kept. Absolutely not. He is too good not to start… but too inconsistent to start. Basically we have a dilemma… which has been going on for 7 years now and it needs to finally go.

by SnakefromHell on May 14, 2010 9:29 PM MDT reply actions  

The Nugs don't have the tools for a KG & Ray Allen move

Unless they commit to trade now for success today and stability tomorrow. That means using the KMart & JR expiring contracts to greatly improve the team instead of status quo & save money tomorrow. And that means to trade Nene to improve the team rather than to “get the best deal and also save money”.

The deals are out there; but it’s all about who’s real and who’s gonna blink. The Nugs are always the team that blinks.

I don’t agree about JR, he’s gotta go. He’s not going to grow up, nothing short of being the star of the team will be acceptable to him. Teams will want his expiring money and some teams will let him play the star for one year… until they kick his contrat expiring tail outta town.

"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"

by the word on May 18, 2010 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

Defense

Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense Defense

Also…
Passion
Chemistry

The Nuggets lacked all three up there last season

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter

by LACK on May 15, 2010 12:26 PM MDT reply actions  

exactly right about the cancer

I’m also proud of the Nuggets for doing as well as they did without Karl. It would’ve been great to see them somehow get out of the first round this year, but really, I can’t ask any more of them than what they did. What an uncommonly horrible thing to have happen. It just derailed everything.

If it hadn’t been for the cancer, things would’ve been different this season. There’s no getting around it.

by ParkHillNative on May 17, 2010 11:02 AM MDT reply actions  

Don't agree

The Nugs may have beaten Utah in the series but that’s about the only change. The team was having problems before Karl’s cancer. And Karl’s cancer had nothing to do with KMart’s injury.

Dantley’s regular season record wasn’t bad for KMart’s and Bird’s injuries. With the Nugs pattern of problems during season (road trips, losing winnable games) Nugs would not have finished the season that much better if Karl coached the whole year.

Dallas still would have finished 2nd. The Nugs still would have finished 4th.

"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"

by the word on May 18, 2010 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

well

I think getting out of the 1st round instead of losing in the 1st round is a substantial difference.

You have some good points about the team’s problems prior to Karl’s illness, and yeah, what I really think is that the double-whammy of the cancer and K-Mart’s knee is what killed the season.

But I will never believe that Karl’s illness wasn’t a big deal and should just be dismissed as a lame excuse. Among the other 15 teams that made the playoffs this year, I don’t think there’s a single one who wouldn’t have done a lot worse if they’d been in the same circumstance with their coach.

by ParkHillNative on May 21, 2010 11:47 AM MDT up reply actions  

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