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Melo vs Durant (ESPN)

David Thorpe looks at the debate between the two scoring sensations ...

Complete article here.

 

 

Look at the top three scorers in the NBA. Right behind LeBron James, the league's best player, are two special guys with some common threads running between them. Both are small forwards on playoff-bound teams. Both had historic one-and-done runs in college: Carmelo Anthony led Syracuse to an incredible national title run, while Kevin Durant dominated college hoops as few freshman ever have. And both learned hoops in famously tough and talented basketball hotbeds: Melo in Baltimore and Durant a short ride away in Washington, D.C. With LeBron, the reigning MVP, known more for his point forward skills and power forward physique, Melo and KD are the two best pure 3s in the game.

Durant and Melo have one more thing in common: Neither had made much of a splash in the NBA other than as a prolific scorer -- until this season, when each has expanded his game.

So as they face off Wednesday night, we have to ask: Who's better overall? Who has what it takes to stand astride the Western Conference for the next decade?

We're rating them in seven different categories on a scale of 0 to 10. A 10 means world-class level, with a 5 representing a league-average score. (Note: We used this scoring system instead of the 10-point must system used in the Kobe-LeBron breakdown so that we could more accurately represent Anthony's and Durant's weaknesses.)

Category No. 1: Shooting

Despite Anthony's reputation as more of a power scorer, and Durant's being known for his silky smooth shot, these players are very similar as shooters.

[+] EnlargeKevin Durant Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images


Durant's shot shows a great follow-through and good balance most of the time. He also does an excellent job of keeping his right hand under the ball while faking and jabbing. This allows for a quicker release because it keeps his right wrist cocked and ready to fire, and it's one of the most difficult concepts to learn.

The majority of his jump shots come from the midrange area, where he's connecting on about 40 percent this season. It's a good showing, but not great. In comparison, Dirk Nowitzki makes about 48 percent of his midrange shots and Kobe Bryant has surged to 46 percent (ahead of James, who's also at 40 percent). Still, Durant uses his size and length perfectly here, usually keeping the ball high throughout the shot to make it extremely difficult for defenders to make a play on the ball.

From the 3-point line, he's shooting 38.2 percent on about four attempts per game. Surprisingly, he's at his best from the wings and top of the key (over 42 percent) and weakest from the corners (under 20 percent). To his credit, though, he rarely takes the corner shots, given those struggles.

Anthony, meanwhile, has a great-looking, compact delivery with a quick release and good follow-through. Like Durant, he's been making about 40 percent of his midrange shots. But unlike Durant, he often sweeps the ball well below his knees before driving or shooting -- this technique makes it more difficult to shoot correctly. If he kept the ball closer to his core, he might improve significantly as a midrange shooter.

Melo doesn't take as many 3s as Durant or shoot as high a percentage (34 percent) -- he often struggles to complete his shooting form from this distance.

This category is closer than I expected, but Durant's 3-point edge gives him the round.

Durant 8, Anthony 7

Category No. 2: Scoring

This is actually where their games are the most divergent. Melo is blessed with the rare combination of power and quickness that LeBron shares and Shaquille O'Neal had when he was the most dominant player in basketball. And Anthony incorporates great timing into his attacks, making it hard for defenders to anticipate his moves.

He can make enough perimeter shots to beat you, and he has a great first step off the triple-threat position, enabling him to get into the paint frequently, as well as to the foul line. He earns about 10 free throw attempts a game and is shooting 82.9 percent from the stripe this season.

Carmelo Anthony Garrett W. Ellwood/NBAE/Getty Images

 

Melo has a well-crafted post game, too, and he uses it like a hammer. He loves to seal smaller players inside after screens or cuts, and most other small forwards are too weak or small to handle it.

Thanks to that lethal combination of posting and slashing, and his two offensive rebounds per game, Melo takes the majority of his shots from the paint, even though a large percentage of his possessions begin on the perimeter -- and he makes about 58 percent of his paint shots. This could be better, but Melo doesn't explode to the rim quite as often as he used to.

Durant might not have Melo's physical presence, but he's lethal nonetheless. He's brilliantly crafty at using his length to draw fouls, a skill that gets him to the free throw line just as often as Melo. And Durant is a slightly better free throw shooter, at 88.3 percent.

Because he's often pressed on the perimeter by aggressive defenders -- or by guys who are hotly closing out on him -- he gets ample opportunities to drive and he does so frequently. Although he doesn't get into the deep part of the paint as often as Melo, Durant has, surprisingly, been finishing better inside: He's making 62 percent of his paint shots. Durant also uses a strong pull-up game from just inside the free throw line.

Ultimately, KD's unique combination of size, length, agility, skills and feel makes him practically unguardable for most defenders.

Still, no NBA player has a better offensive mix of weapons than Anthony. Driving, shooting, posting, cutting, racing the floor, crashing the boards and drawing fouls -- Melo uses the whole array of options, which is why he often has his best games against the league's best defenses and scores proficiently in late-game situations.

As their stats and skills tell us, these two are elite scorers.

Durant 10, Anthony 10

Category No. 3: Making teammates better

In my previous player versus player breakdown, I compared James and Bryant, and this is one category in which you can see what sets those two apart from Anthony and Durant. Kobe is a great scorer who is also a gifted passer, and LeBron could go down as the best wing passer/scorer ever. Anthony and Durant, in contrast, are not at that level when it comes to helping teammates.

Neither Melo nor KD is especially good at seeing angles for teammates and anticipating movements by the defense, except as it relates to finding an opening for their own bucket-getting. That's not to say they're ball hogs, because they're not, but their scoring talents are far ahead of their passing skills.

We know they can find teammates -- each has recorded eight assists in a game this season -- but it is not a strength of either guy yet. They miss too many opportunities to get teammates the ball in great spots.

Of course, there are other ways they help their teammates: Both create scoring opportunities for others simply by working hard on offense and drawing the attention of the defense, and also by not forcing the action when double-teamed, but rather kicking the ball back out and letting their teammates play 4-on-3.

But overall, Melo and KD are pretty ordinary in this facet of the game.

Anthony 6, Durant 5

Category No. 4: On-the-ball defense

Anthony is a more willing defender than he used to be. In the past, I rarely saw the same level of intensity on defense that I saw on offense. Now he seems more willing to stick his whole head and body into a play to break it up, and to close out on a shooter who isn't his primary responsibility. He's also making more of an effort to be disruptive to ball handlers and shooters by swiping and pawing at the ball while moving his feet. He has had two or more steals in a game 17 times this season and has a chance to set a career high in takeaways.

Carmelo Anthony Jeff Gross/Getty Images

 

 

Still, he has some bad habits to break on defense. He rarely gets his hand up early to contest the shot on closeouts. Perhaps even worse, he often is caught watching the ball, forcing him to turn and try to catch up with his man.

He also struggles to slide in his defensive stance, especially to his left, and he stands up in his stance almost all the time rather than getting low. And he gets stuck on screens more than he should, considering how strong and nimble he is.

Like Anthony, Durant has improved on defense, and the improvement has come quickly, thanks to both mental adjustments and his great length for his position. He's likely to set a personal best in steals this season, and maybe blocks, too. On most plays, he contests shots with an outstretched hand, and relative to Anthony, who takes plays off at times, Durant rests on fewer defensive possessions.

But he is not close to being a strong on-ball defender yet. He needs to be able to continue sliding when he is guarding a hard dribble drive. And like Melo, he too often gets caught with his back to his man when he's helping, instead of staying sideways to make recovery easier.

Durant 7, Anthony 6

Category No. 5: Secondary defender

Good defense begins with what we call "starting position." It's vital to begin a possession in the right place, based on where the offensive players are and where the ball is. A defense is doomed by poor starting position.

Melo and Durant have been doing a great job in this area this season, which is half the battle as secondary defenders. They typically move off their man and toward the ball at the onset of a play. Melo may be a bit better at showing on the ball side as the play begins, making Denver's defense look more formidable by crowding the side of the floor where the ball is.

But things go downhill for both players after that. Neither is alert in help defense, and they spend more time standing or floating around than trying to stop the other team from scoring.

This is pretty typical for monster scorers who exert lots of energy on offense and want to avoid fouls. Anthony and Durant do the latter by frequently not jamming cutters, pinching drivers or doubling post threats. Fortunately, they have coaches and teammates who are aware of their roles and do whatever they can to make up for Anthony and Durant on defense.

Durant 5, Anthony 5

Category No. 6: Rebounding

Durant is pretty locked in as a defensive rebounder. That's needed, because the Thunder don't get a lot of rebounding from the bigs and are below-average as a defensive rebounding team. Only three small forwards -- James, Gerald Wallace and Matt Barnes -- have a better defensive rebound rate than Durant. He isn't as physical or dominant as James or Wallace, doesn't box out especially well and still rebounds mostly in his own area, but he is willing. With his length and great hands, that's enough.

Kevin Durant Joe Murphy/NBAE/Getty Images

 

 

The same can't be said for Durant's efforts on the offensive glass, though that's by design. The Thunder's starting guards, Russell Westbrook and Thabo Sefolosha, crash the glass and are two of the best offensive rebounders at their respective positions, meaning that Durant has to get back on defense. So while his offensive rebound rate is very low for a small forward, that's OK within the team's scheme, and Durant is able to preserve energy and fouls by not going hard after offensive boards.

Denver wisely employs a different approach for Melo. He's a beast on the offensive glass, pushing and fighting smaller guys and punishing them with easy buckets this way. He's not always locked in, but when he's on his game, it's a big part of who he is and what makes him an all-time great scorer.

Denver is a poor defensive rebounding team, and Melo is a poor defensive rebounder. It seems likely he could be better if it mattered more to him. As strong a season as the Nuggets are having, improving at rebounding would only help their cause, and getting more than 4.2 defensive rebounds a game from their best player could make a big difference.

While Melo's work on the offensive glass can be a game-changer, Durant's overall effort is better, and that's a big reason the Thunder are a better rebounding team than the Nuggets.

Durant 6, Anthony 5

Category No. 7: Intangibles

Melo has never been known as someone who inspires teammates. It's just not in his personality: He can shut down or get petulant when he's unhappy. That said, he can also impact his teammates with his performance and his confidence, and they know what to do in many late-game situations: Get Melo the ball. They know he can carry them, and that attribute alone can help the team get on the same page.

Team togetherness in Denver is also helped by the fact that Anthony and Nuggets coach George Karl know each other well, and that Melo has changed in both body and attitude during his time under Karl. So with his superstar buying in, Karl has an easier time getting everyone else to doing the same.

Another intangible Melo brings is his ability to affect opponents, specifically the guys who have to guard him. He's one of the toughest covers in the league, physical and often relentless, the kind of player who can really turn it on when he knows he has an opponent who is helpless to defend him.

Durant is more the classic "wolf in sheep's clothing" type of player. He seems to get along with everyone and to be in lockstep with his coaches, and he's not really a fire-breathing leader. But his youthful physique and easygoing persona mask his hunger to dominate. As a scorer, he brings it every night, every possession. He may never be like LeBron or Kobe, two of the strongest personalities in the NBA, but he can be just as effective in his own way.

So even though we recognize and applaud the growth we have seen in Melo over the years, Durant gets the category.

Durant 7, Anthony 5

Conclusion

Final tally: Durant 48, Melo 44

When I started breaking down video for these guys, the first thing that jumped out was just how ordinary they both can be when they're not in shooting/scoring mode. These guys are special players, but at this point Melo and KD are not in the class of LeBron, Kobe or Dwyane Wade as all-around talents.

We constantly hear about "two-way players" or guys who "do it all," but there are very few of those players. Still, both Anthony and Durant can, in the right situation, carry a team through the playoffs and be the best player on a championship team. That puts them in select company.

Melo is more locked in on defense than he's ever been, more willing to give up his body for a stop (he's always been willing to do that for a bucket), and more patient with the ebbs and flows of the game. There is no reason to think he cannot make further progress as a passer, help defender and defensive rebounder.

Durant, of course, is far from his peak. Yet he's already one of the very best 21-year-olds in NBA history and better all-around than Melo, which alone is impressive. And this season Durant may finish as high as second (to LeBron) in the Most Valuable Player voting and play in a couple of playoff series.

Furthermore, if he can minimize his weaknesses in future seasons while developing his strengths, it's entirely possible that he can defeat the King for both the award and the ring.

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I can’t believe Thorpe thinks Durant is better than Melo. If I was doing the rating mine would look like this as un biased as possible:

Shooting:
Durant 9
Melo 8

Scoring:
Melo 10
Durant 8

Making Teammates Better:
Melo 5
Durant 5

On The Ball D:
Melo (has improved so much) 7
Durant 6

Secondary D:
Melo 5
Durant 5

Rebounding:
Melo 7 (I think Melo could average 8-10 rpg, but it seems like every player he covers tries to shoot outside or mid range J’s because Melo is so quick and powerful to get past. Melo spends more time outside of the defensive paint than inside. He is actually a very good rebounder.)
Durant 5

Intangibles:
Melo 7
Durant 6
He makes good points on Melo being immature, but that was the past. Melo is a captain and has been very good this year. Durant is mute. He is the most quiet dude in the NBA. He wouldn’t say anything during the H-O-R-S-E competition he was in and that was all fun and games. Also, Melo has a better track record of wins and has the better record this year.

Total:
Melo 49
Durant 44

Durant is a better shooter, but thats about it… I think Melo has him in everything else.

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Mar 3, 2010 12:55 PM MST reply actions  

I agree

The “Making Teammates Better” score of 10 for each is where the analysis lost me. Melo is the toughest all around scorer in the league but he only gets an 8 while his teamwork is a 10… that’s maybe just a bit reversed me thinks…

More like Scoring 10, Teamwork 6 or 7… not because he can’t, he just doesn’t on a consistent basis (maybe because he’s tired of passes bouncing off teammates hands or Melo passing it off and never getting the pass back)

"I was here for Brown, Moe, Westhead & Bernie... what do you bring to the game?"
"Maxie Miner Rules"
"Remember the Alamo", "Remember the Maine", "Remember the Hunter Trade"
"Contenders commit to building a champion; pretenders end up getting bit right on their pick axe"

by the word on Mar 3, 2010 10:16 PM MST up reply actions  

um you read it wrong i think

The teamwork scores were melo 6, kd 5

by Uh on Mar 4, 2010 2:15 PM MST up reply actions  

For the rebounding thing, Durant is definitely better, largely because of his incredible wingspan and wiry frame.

Durant is also a better shooter, especially from farther out, and at the line, but scoring-wise they are the same. So, with everything else the same, that comes out to 47 for Durant to 46 to Melo. This is just my opinion.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Who doesn't expect ESPN to shit on the Nuggets?

Who cares what David “Luol Deng” Thorpe has to say – KD is a damn good player yes, but better than Melo? No.

Swats.

by BeefySwats on Mar 3, 2010 1:21 PM MST reply actions  

Durant is better than Melo, but his teammates outside of Russell Westbrook....

Jeff Green is a small forward playing out of position at PF. Nenad Kristic should be a 4th big man, but he’s starting many of the games, although Serge Ibaka with take over the job in a few years. James Harden may develop into a decent 6th man, but he’s no better than Ty Lawson right now. Thabo Sefolosha is like Arron Afflalo without the dropdead 3-point range. The Nuggets’ supporting cast is much better, but also remember that OKC will be better in the years to come because they have a good cap situation, even with extensions to Durant and Westbrook, so they can sign that 2nd option for Durant (Westbrook is best as a 3rd option). Also, they have a ridiculous amount of draft picks over the next two seasons, so they will fill out their bench.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:24 AM MST up reply actions  

I think this guy has it about 100% perfect

Durant’s length is so ridiculous that it will eventually put him in a fierce competition with LePout for the best player in the NBA. Melo is great but I don’t think he is any Durant.

Thorpe forgot a category: Clutch Play

I am of the belief that Melo and Kobe are by a stretch to two most clutch players in the game today. Also, I have seen some pretty clutch play by Durantula against the Nugs so I imagine he has clutch game too. On a scale of 1 to 10 I would definitely give Melo a 10, Kobe a 10, LePout a 4, and I am not too sure what to give Durant. If Durant scores 6 or lower in this category it would even out the two players. Given that Durant hasn’t played in the playoffs I couldn’t see a score above 7 anyways. This would give Durant either a tie or a small advantage over Melo in the all around game competition. Soon however, I believe Durant will leave Melo in his wake.

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 1:23 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

Durant

Is pretty clutch… not melo or Kobe but he’s good. I see Durant as an versized Wing/SG… not really a SF in the NBA. He is a SF cuz of his length but he could easily play SG on a team.

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Mar 3, 2010 1:37 PM MST up reply actions  

He played SG as a rookie

And it didn’t work out that well. Although part of that was the fact that since if Durant slides over the 2, Jeff Green plays the 3. Which means that their 4 and 5 will suck. Their bigs might suck now, but they were way worse a few years ago. Their main bigs were Vitaly Potapenko, Johan Petro, Nick Collison, and Robert “Birdman on drugs” Swift. That also explains why Johan Petro’s career stats look decent at first look. He started for them during some stretches…

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions  

it will be very hard for durant to be the best player in the league as long as lebron is healthy/in his prime.

its lebrons strength as a passer and durants weakness in this area that make it no comparison. and its not just the number of assists lebron records (although thats a huge part of it), durant has a slightly higher turnover rate than lebron even though his usage is a little lower and his assist rate is way, way, way lower. basically, to compare to lebron, and since durant is clearly not a natural passer, durant would have to average like 37 points a game without increasing his turnover rate, and without his efficiency plummeting, which would be pretty tough to do.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Mar 3, 2010 1:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree to an extent

LePout will never be the shooter that Durant is and I don’t think he will ever be clutch either. Clutch in the game of basketball is huge and maybe should be scored out of 20 along with making your teammates better. LePout seems to be really good in the making teammates better area which is hard to believe because of the way he dominates the ball all of the time. Only time will tell. I think LePout and Durant are the two most freakish players in the game today. Durant with his amazing length and LePout with his amazing athletic ability.

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 2:03 PM MST up reply actions  

LOL

Then the stats aren’t measuring “clutchness”

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 2:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Over a 82games.com

They do a game winning shot category which defines clutchness. LePout is 17 of 50! Enough said, end of conversation.

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 3:11 PM MST up reply actions  

clutchness is much, much more than game winning shots. its even more than points scored in clutch situations.

there are clutch rebounds, clutch steals, clutch assists, etc. by focusing on last second shots you are making judgments based on very small sample sizes. judgements which require you to further say silly things, like that jalen rose (60% in last second shots) is some kind of clutch god.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Mar 3, 2010 5:03 PM MST up reply actions  

You just got done telling me that King LePout is much more clutch than Durant

Who is saying silly things? LePout’s weakness is his ability in the clutch. Stat nerds around the league will find all kinds of dumb ways to expand “clutchness.” You are one of the people that has obviously fallen into that trap. MJ defined clutch by hitting game winner after game winner. LePout goes 17 for 50 and you can’t see that he is not clutch? Is that not a really good sample size? The Nugs have proven that LePout isn’t clutch two seperate times this year. First by throwing Kmart (a power forward) out to guard him for the last three possessions of the game and thus shutting him down. Then Melo went shot for shot with him a couple weeks ago and guess who won? LePout isn’t clutch buddy but good luck luring him to Chicago or wherever it is that your fandom resides.

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions  

so if i understand you correctly, by reducing "clutchness" merely to converting last second shots,

lebron, if he made those shots against denver recently would have been clutch, but K-mart doesnt get to be called clutch at all for playing excellent defense and preventing lebron from making those shots?

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Mar 3, 2010 7:55 PM MST up reply actions  

Just to interject

Lebron has a subpar turnover rate in the clutch. His shot selection is also questionable.

Not saying he’s not a great player, he certainly is. However, while not terrible in the clutch, Lebron probably isn’t as clutch as everyone makes him out to be.

by Uh on Mar 3, 2010 8:31 PM MST up reply actions  

his shot selection is definitely questionable. kelly dwyer did a nice piece

recently about that. the turnover thing isnt that bad when you also consider his assist rate in the clutch, which is high and was league-leading in 08-09.

"Oooohhh, cat in the wall, eh? Now you're talkin' my language."

by TheMoon on Mar 3, 2010 9:37 PM MST up reply actions  

LePout is not nearly the clutcher Kobe is

Kobe knows the skills to clutching…and he’s used them too, especially in Colorado after losses.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

Clutchness stats there are bad.

Think about the top 5 players you want to shoot the ball when the game is on the line or in crunch time.

1.Kobe
2.Melo
3.Dwade
4.Chauncey
5.Dirk/Gilbert/Durant

by GottaLoveMelo on Mar 4, 2010 2:30 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't know about Wade

Wade might be even worse in the clutch than Lebron. Otherwise, I’d agree the first two are definitely Kobe-Melo in some order, and Chauncey and Dirk should be on the list somewhere. And I know we hate the Spurs, but their power forward is pretty good in the clutch from what I hear.

uh is gilbert supposed to be gilbert arenas

by Uh on Mar 4, 2010 2:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Durant is only slightly better than LePout at 36% as compared to 34% and Melo is way ahead of either

My point is proven from what I stated in my original post. Durant would probably even fall to a six or lower which would give Melo the edge on who the better all around ball player is today. Not for long though as I see Durant fighting the king for who is the most amazing freak in the world!

by Gasus on Mar 3, 2010 3:16 PM MST reply actions  

Here's the problem

Many people who frequent this site are Nuggets fans, then NBA fans, so of course they are going to think that Melo is better right now. But as an NBA fan first, and Nuggets fan second I can tell you right now that Durant is probably better than Melo. I don’t like saying it, but I’m not going to lie. Durant is incredible. For his size (he’s 2 inches taller than Melo) he’s one of the most unique players we will ever see in the NBA. But the main differences between Melo and Durant are A) Durant’s game is expanding while Melo’s isn’t (AND he’s younger which is scary) and B) Durant is scoring at a higher rate than anybody right now in the league. It’s not that I don’t think Melo is capable of being better than Durant because he is, he’s just not right now.

"Jive turkey is a little over the line my man!"

"I'm kinda grumpy today, dude. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I was having those dreams again. Ya know, how it's just me in a castle and I gotta fight, like, a thousand wizards and the only way to beat them is to punch them as hard as I can in their faces. Then, when I'm done, all their little wizard wives came out and wanted me to have sex with them - which is kinda weird."

by GoldenNugget on Mar 3, 2010 4:05 PM MST reply actions  

By that line of reasoning

Durant is better than Kobe, Wade, Melo, LBJ etc etc etc, because of his age and potential? Ask any GM of the above players if they’d go for a straight up trade, and what would the answer be? A resounding NO.

The same thing that kept Melo out of the Kobe, Wade, Lbj convo was his lack of playoff success. I’d have to say the same for Durant. He’s had 1 really good season (which isn’t even complete yet) and people are having this discussion? Too early to compare anything IMO.

by Joelsopinion on Mar 3, 2010 4:53 PM MST up reply actions  

Yes but Durant looks to have all the potential in the world

So that “only 1 great season” argument isn’t very convincing.

Seeing as he is 21 and scores 30 ppg… what would lead you to believe he will suddenly stop improving? The scary part is that this is not his peak…at all.

by Uh on Mar 3, 2010 5:10 PM MST up reply actions  

If I were an NBA team and I had to choose who to build a team around...

My first choice would be Durant.

Second choice would be LePout ONLY IF HE PROMISES TO STAY FOR A WHILE

Third choice would be Chris Paul since PG is a very hard position to fill.

Fourth choice would be Melo. If I were just an NBA fan, he’d probably be 5th or 6th

Fifth choice would be Deron Williams, because I think he’s underrated.

Sixth choice would be a tie between Dwight Howard and Dwyane Wade.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:31 AM MST up reply actions  

If LePout doesn't promise to stay

Then he’d be 16th, behind players like Brandon Roy, Tyreke Evans, Kevin Love, Chris Bosh, and Ty Lawson Arron Afflalo Amar’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’e Stoudemire.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:34 AM MST up reply actions  

I don't know how you got to where you did from my "line of reasoning"

I was only comparing Melo to Durant. Durant vs Kobe, Wade or Lebron requires a totally different argument. And your point that the GM’s of Melo, Kobe, Lebron and Wade turning down a trade for Durant isn’t indicative of his talent. There are many differnt things to consider with that road. Basically, when making an argument about who is a better player, it doesn’t do anything to say “Well that GM wouldn’t trade him for him straight up”. But come on JO, to say “he’s had one really good season (in which isn’t even complete yet)” is bullshit. In this league and in sports people know great players when they see them. Durant has now had almost 4 years including college to show us what he’s capable of and considering he’s only 21 and almost leading the league in scoring it’s pretty obvious how good this kid is. And how can you blame him for his lack of playoff appearances? Basketball is a team game. Even Lebron didn’t make the playoffs his first few seasons. My point, it’s not too early to compare anything. Is it too early to come to conclusions? I think you could say that. But right now, this season, Durant is having a better one than Melo and like I alraedy said, it’s not that I don’t think Melo is incapable of being better than Durant. I just don’t think he is this season.

"Jive turkey is a little over the line my man!"

"I'm kinda grumpy today, dude. I didn't get a lot of sleep last night. I was having those dreams again. Ya know, how it's just me in a castle and I gotta fight, like, a thousand wizards and the only way to beat them is to punch them as hard as I can in their faces. Then, when I'm done, all their little wizard wives came out and wanted me to have sex with them - which is kinda weird."

by GoldenNugget on Mar 3, 2010 6:29 PM MST up reply actions  

@Uh + GN

I’m not taking anything away fron Durant, (who can really?). The kid is good and teetering on very good to great. I’m saying that people are making unjust comparisons between the 2. Especially when age in basketball is a BIG factor.

Which is why I mentioned the other very good to great players, who are also older than Durant, because you were pointing to KD’s age and potential as the kicker in determining who’s better. Of those three other superstars, aside from LeBron, KD averages more than Kobe and Wade, but no one would make a comparison to those two…Why not? Why draw a line directly to Melo? (I guess my beef is with the national media who stir this shit storm up)

And yes you are both comparing Durant’s best season, so far, against Melo’s career it would seem. It aint about where you’re going, but where you’ve been. As the last line in the 1st comment…It’s too soon IMO to make comparsions.

I’m a huge fan of both of them, and until either of them LEADS their team to win a ring, the comparisons are useless. [That was my whole point]

by Joelsopinion on Mar 4, 2010 11:08 AM MST up reply actions  

Yep

Whoever finishes with rings is the real winner here

by Uh on Mar 4, 2010 2:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Despite what the media says

Rings mean a good deal more about their supporting cast than the player itself.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 5, 2010 6:49 PM MST up reply actions  

Very true

So let’s hope they have equally good supporting casts somewhere down the line.

by Uh on Mar 5, 2010 7:51 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with this

Durant is a very similar player to Melo. But when you compare them, Durant is easily the better scorer.

That said, I have no complaints about having Melo on my team. You don’t have to have LeBron, Jordon, Bryant, etc. to win a championship. You do need to have a good team however. And while Durant might beat Melo in one-on-one, I’ll take the Nuggets over the Thunder in a seven game series, easy. So would anyone who knows a thing or two about basketball.

Member: 10-man rotation for deep playoff push advocacy group

by Fly Agaric on Mar 4, 2010 8:37 AM MST up reply actions  

This is a really interesting comparison that I think we looked at a couple weeks ago

To be honest I was kind of surprised at three of the categories: Scoring (which I think Melo has a slight edge), Making Teammates Better (which should either be a tie or have Durant with a small lead), and Intangibles (I don’t quite get how Durant has such a sizeable lead here, particularly if “intangibles” include ability to deliver in the clutch).

Either way it comes out extremely close. My Nuggets bias tells me Melo has a slight edge, but then again I’ve been a huge fan of Durant ever since his Seattle days. In a couple of years, it will probably be unfair to KD to compare the two. But right now, it is a great debate to have…especially since both players play in the same division, and could end up facing each other in the playoffs (oh please no).

by Uh on Mar 3, 2010 4:24 PM MST reply actions  

I would take Melo now

..but if starting a team, Durant due to his age.

One thing I would worry about with KD…if he puts on any weight, he may lose a step or 5. KD has to play skinny. Melo uses his weight well.

I know, that’s an odd thought.

by Pusherman on Mar 3, 2010 5:17 PM MST reply actions  

It doesn't seem like his speed is his biggest threat though

And he certainly could stand to get stronger. The extra strength and size would easily cancel out any loss in speed he suffers.

by Uh on Mar 3, 2010 5:57 PM MST up reply actions  

Funny thing of the day:

Durant is listed at 230 pounds. Melo is listed at 225 or 226 depending on where you go.

I really doubt that an extra inch of height and two or three extra inches of wingspan make up the difference…

OK, you decide. Durant = better player. Melo = could beat “Durantula” up any day

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 4, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions  

I remember when Durant was drafted they talked about him as a better version of Anthony.

I’ve seen Durant play 3 times in the past month or so. He seems even better than Melo at scoring within the team structure. Melo seems to disrupt the offence sometimes by taking ages to make a move, Durant seems to get on with it quicker. Not criticising, just saying what I’ve observed from limited NBA viewing.

No doubt Melo is a better power player and I think that makes him a better offensive player, but Durant’s extreme length (and probably better attitude) makes him so good on the defensive end.

Julian from Australia

by j-mac31 on Mar 3, 2010 8:58 PM MST reply actions  

It's like trying to compare Iceman to Barkley

Though Melo’s game is somewhere in between Barkley, McGinnis and Dantley.

Durant is the flavor of the month; he’s a very very very good player who should just continue to get better. But that’s a hugely flawed and biased article.

Durant is a shooter; Melo is a scorer. Durant uses his height over smaller defenders; Melo uses his strength & quickness over defenders.

Both teams are very blessed to have their respective player on their team… All being said, I’ll take Melo. Melo won’t be that “all around” player. But he has that hit the game winner champion intagible that can’t be taught. Melo has it, Kobe has it, Lebron does not have it.

"I was here for Brown, Moe, Westhead & Bernie... what do you bring to the game?"
"Maxie Miner Rules"
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by the word on Mar 3, 2010 10:10 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

I really like your reasoning and positive comment

I would take Melo for this year but for a career starting now it would have to be Durant

by Gasus on Mar 4, 2010 3:59 PM MST up reply actions  

i was trying to remember...

If Durant had ever scored 33 in one quarter like Melo…. lol

Also funny the fact that Durant’s scoring percentage in the paint is higher than Melo, but Durant is two inches taller; while Melo can drive the lane against ANYONE, and when he gets fouled that doesn’t help his paint %…..

by InboundingLobPass on Mar 4, 2010 12:07 AM MST via mobile reply actions  

Melo in the paint

Melo has a huge problem about finishing on drives.

I think he takes it to the hole for the sake of getting a foul call rather than making a layup. Melo has some of the sweetest moves to get to the basket in traffic and some of the ugly shots to finish. It is little surprise that his paint FG percentage is so weak with all the layups the rim out of the bucket.

Melo is improving on this compared to his early years in the league, however.

Member: 10-man rotation for deep playoff push advocacy group

by Fly Agaric on Mar 4, 2010 8:41 AM MST up reply actions  

I think you're totally right about this

Also, Melo gets himself in trouble a lot dribbling in traffic. When he tries to force things, it can get ugly.

by ParkHillNative on Mar 4, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions  

The biggest difference between the two is

Body Size. If Durant ever get his grown man body, he will be pretty close to unstoppable as long as he can maintain his shot/speed as he bulks up. Melo is better on the dribble; has the bigger body to potentially be a better defender, as has been shown when he actually tries; can get to the basket easier; and is a better volume scorer. Right now I can see Melo’s highs as being more likely to be reached before Durant’s but thats also the age difference. Durant is good, but I don’t see him ever being able to overtake Melo as the better player if he doesn’t bulk up some. That being said, they’re both damn good players.

by Marty Mart on Mar 4, 2010 12:54 PM MST reply actions   3 recs

This is a first

I rec’d a Laker fans comment.

by Joelsopinion on Mar 4, 2010 1:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Pretty accurate

But many guys have bulked up while maintaining most of their speed.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Mar 5, 2010 6:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I thought it was pretty fair with a couple a small quibbles on Melo:

1) ’Melo is coached to release for fastbreaks while Martin / Nene control the defensive glass. I have some trouble with his effort at times, but overall, I think he rebounding is at least a push with Durant.

2) The gape in intangibles is too much. 1 pt for Durant would be acceptable, but it is not ‘Melo is taking stuff off the table and on a number of occassions this year we have seen him really step up his production when the Nugs are failing. Durant is clearly teamate favorite and sets a great example so you have to give him his due, but ’Melo isn’t chopped liver.

Other than those nitpicks, I think Thorpe is right on. Too many times in the last couple of weeks I have seen ‘Melo not box on on the defensive boards, not close out the shooter, or not swing to JR for the open three. It’s not that he doesn’t do these things, but he doesn’t do them every time.

by Frontrange on Mar 4, 2010 1:06 PM MST reply actions  

eh

The +1 shooting for Durant I could see. Rebounding definitely goes to Durant because he’s more willing to rebound (although I love Melo on the offensive glass). Everything else is whatever except for scoring.

KD can score but he doesnt have anywhere near the versatility that Melo has which is why Melo has to have the edge there.

If you are smaller or weaker he can post you and abuse you. If you are a stronger person then he’s quicker than you and will blow by you. If you are Lebron and are both quick and strong…then he can hit you with that pretty fake to the baseline then spin the middle having you looking lost or just shoot in your face (ie the game winner). Everything that he listed makes Melo a better scorer. Fast break, drives off first-steps, open jumpers, threes, freethrows, offensive rebound putbacks. pull up jumpers, transition 3s, post ups, dunks on Paul Milsapp’s head…just doesnt get any better.

As far as on ball D…not sure about durant because I rarely watch him on defense. I dont know if he guards Lebron or Kobe ever like Melo does.

Cant go wrong with either I guess…but you see my name so u know who I say is better.

by GottaLoveMelo on Mar 4, 2010 3:12 PM MST reply actions  

The only problem with your statement of thier shooting ability.

is that if you compare their hotspots, Durant is actually more efficient from almost everywhere on the court. I was surprised when I looked it up. I mean Melo isn’t significantly worse, and its actually pretty hard to imagine. Melo is better with long twos, but thats about it. Otherwise, Durant shoots better in the paint, right at the basket, and from three. But I think the intangibles of Melo’s strength and offensive movements are something he holds over Durant that makes him the better scorer, but statistically speaking, meaning ignoring the intangibles, Durant would be considered the better scorer.
And he doesn’t guard Kobe, but I think he does guard Lebron, or at least I know Lebron guards him in the game.

by Marty Mart on Mar 4, 2010 4:17 PM MST up reply actions  

If you ignore the intangibles...

…then wouldnt that just make durant the better shooter which I semi gave him credit for? But when you talk about better scorer…why would you ignore the intangibles? The versatility of Melo is what makes him a better and such a great scorer.

by GottaLoveMelo on Mar 5, 2010 7:18 AM MST up reply actions  

You can tell by the categories

that Thorpe had his mind up about who he wanted to look better before he started. Why separate out shooting from scoring? If you are going to, why not separate out post up ability? And then to just give them both 10s for scoring without taking into account that Melo clearly is a better scorer if you’re going to take out shooting (somehow) means it isn’t really evaluating anything. Let’s just add in post up ability, which to me is why Melo is considerably more valuable than Durant right now. Give Melo an 8 and Durant a 4 and suddenly they are now equally good under this evaluation.

by asdqqq on Mar 5, 2010 7:40 PM MST reply actions  

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