Nene's future with the Nuggets
Maybner "Nene" Hilario. After being picked in the 2002 NBA draft by the Knicks and then subsequently traded to the Denver Nuggets, Nene has led an at-times rocky road through injury, illness and struggling Nuggets teams.
On November 1, 2005, against the San Antonio Spurs, Nenê suffered a serious knee injury on an awkward fall consisting of a torn anterior cruciate ligament, a sprained medial collateral ligament and a torn meniscus in his right knee during Denver's first game of the NBA season.
Since coming back from that injury and persevering through testicular cancer, Nene has come back to be a big part of the Nuggets' rotation and has performed well in his role as the C/PF for the team.
But I believe that Nene is not and cannot be the Nuggets big man for the future. Reasons for why after the jump.
Fig. 1: Too much of this...
Fig. 2: And not enough of this...
1. One of the things people point to when evaluating Nene's skillset is that he's an athletic C who can really run the floor, which one would think is ideal for a team like the Nuggets that thrive on the fast break. At 6'11" and 250lbs, he is certainly faster than many combo Cs his size.
However, while he certainly can run faster than many other players at his position, the flipside of that coin is that he "plays smaller" in the post. How many times have we, as Nuggets fans, watched Nene shrink away in the post from players he quite obviously overmatches physically? He'll quite frequently find himself within 5 feet of the basket, and rather than looking for the layup or dunk, passes out to the perimeter rather than taking the high-percentage shot. While this sometimes has the effect of a Nuggets 3 or open perimeter jump shot, Nene's timidity in the post hurts the team. Opposing teams know that they rarely, if ever, have to double Nene, and that they can consequently play up tighter on the perimeter rather than sagging back to help.
Nene's offensive game is also quite limited. While the ambidextrous Brazillian can finish with either hand, on the break or under the rim, he doesn't have much of a shot outside of a dunk or the occasional 12-16 foot jumper. Scouts have evaluated Nene and they know that when he's bodied up, he will pass first rather than try to draw contact in the post. The best way to play Nene is aggressively and get him frustrated and jawing. When Nene starts barking at the refs, you take him out of his game entirely.
While physically gifted, Nene does not have the aggressive attitude and willingness to fight for boards and easy layups/dunks that the Nuggets need out of a post player.
2. Eight years into the NBA, Nene has never averaged more than 15 points or 7 rebounds in a season. And for all of Nene's vaunted "quick hands" he's never averaged more than 1.6 steals per game - back in 2002-2003, no less (and while certainly high for a center, it's nothing to write home about). Consequently, Denver has never seen Nene mature into the type of post threat that almost immediately commands double teams the way a Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire, or Pau Gasol would. Many people believe that this is due to Nene playing "out of position" as a Center, rather than as a forward, but I do not believe that shifting Nene to the PF or C has much of a difference on his game as a whole. Nene is who he is and he will not change.
Nene doesn't board well, either, for being nearly seven feet tall. We've all witnessed his willingness to let other players muscle him in the paint and not sell out going for loose balls. Related to his timidity in the post is his unwillingness to treat every rebound like it's his last and to take offense at every ball that he doesn't grab between his mitts off the glass. He does play fairly well defensively in the post, but again, he gets backed down far too easily and does not contest as well as he could.
The Nuggets are still on the hook for Nene's contract for more than $33m over the next three seasons (should he opt-in to the player option in 2011-12) and his value will never be higher than it is now. The Nuggets should look to entertain all offers on the table for a trade, provided that they get the appropriate pieces in return. As Nene ages, his athleticism will decline, and other than the outside jumpshot, he'll be even less willing in the post than he is now.
Denver needs a player who will fight for every last rebound and who shows developmental progress towards being a dominant center who'll command a double in the post. I believe Nene has peaked and will only gradually decline in coming seasons.
3. The way I see it, the Nuggets have two options:
a) The Nuggets can stand pat as is, let Nene finish out his contract in Denver, and be satisfied with his 13/7 night in and night out. Taking injury history and current play into account, Nene's averages will more than likely decline over the next two years of his contract, probably finishing the 2011 season as a 12/5 or 11/6 average. Additionally, his contract hamstrings Denver from bringing in other pieces alongside him, like a good backup PF for Bird and Kenyon and a "true" center.
b) The Nuggets actively shop Nene throughout this offseason and entertain all trade offers for him. The FA class this coming offseason will be huge, but there's also going to be a market for stiffs to play alongside all the big ticket names. As I said earlier, Nene's value will never be higher than it is now. Nene could be shopped along with J.R. Smith (that's another story) for some great pieces that would serve the Nuggets far better than what they're getting now. They could target Chris Bosh, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bogut, Joakim Noah, David Lee, DeAndre Jordan, Nathan Jawai, Kevin Love, Roy Hibbert...obviously, there are questions remaining as to the availability of these players and how trades would work, but I believe almost any of the above would be a better fit for Denver than Nene is currently.
The fact of the matter is that we've seen everything we'll get out of Nene: a fast, big center who can finish with both hands, play average post defense and run the break...but also a center who shies from contact, does not rebound well for his size, and gets pushed out of his game way too easily.
While I love Nene as a person and have seen him do nothing but good in Denver and in the community, it's time for us to see Nene for what he is and is not. He would be a great 1st option on almost any other team, but Denver needs a post player who will demand respect to open the floor up for Carmelo and other outside shooters.
Write respectfully of your SB Nation community and yourself.
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Why do you mention Jawai in the players to be traded for thing?
Also, you never mention that Nene is about 6’9" and not 6’11"
It’d be hard to convince the Nuggets to trade Nene unless we get a Joakim Noah-type player in return, because he’s our only guy who actually can play center. Birdman 6’10" and 220 lbs is definitely a PF size-wize. Kenyon is around 6’8" and 240 lbs, which is also too small for center. Also, the salaries don’t work for many of the trades.
Another problem is that if we trade for a guy still on their rookie deal, they are going to get big pay raises soon. Say, if we trade with Minnesota for Love or Chicago for Noah, they are going to have to give us a big contract from another player to make the salaries work. However, that would mean that we wouldn’t have the money to resign Love/Noah later.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
He's listed at 6'11"
But I get what you’re saying. I also see the problems with the contracts, but like I said, figuring out a trade will be the hard part. I think seeing that Nene isn’t a great fit is the easy part.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Also
I list Jawai because he is a BANGER. He’s 6’10", 275, and in the Australian league averaged 18/9 and has been called “the Aussie Shaq”. He’s also played really well against the Nuggets and appears to have a lot of potential.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Jawai would not nearly, in a million years, cut it at center for the Nugs
If I recall correctly the dude has spent some time in the D league this year. Jordan, Jawai, and Hibbert would be horrible trades for Nene and the FO would never make them.
I really like the idea of your post though and I have been suggesting the same thing since the close of last season on this site.
And beefy, if you consider 4 points and 6 boards in 18 minutes as "really well"
Then whatever…
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
I don't at all,
But what are you referring to? I don’t see that mentioned anywhere…
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 30, 2010 8:55 AM MDT up reply actions
LOL I just made that up, sorry...
His season averages are 3.2 ppg and 2.7 rpg in 10.8 minutes per game. Against Denver, he averages 3.3 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 0.3 apg, with no blocks, 1 total steal in the 4 games, and a total of 2 TO’s and 4 fouls. He did this on 50% from the field and 50% from the line. He averaged 8.3 minutes per game.
To sum that up, he’s a decent backup, but the only players I’d trade for him would be Balkman, Tacos, and Oliver Miller.

And that was during his playing days. He’s probably over 500 pounds now…
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Excellent, thought-provoking post
With Nene it’s the same thing every year: “Well, if he can put it all together next year, he’ll be an All-Star.” And he never does put it all together. It’s disappointing to say the least. With his size and quickness, he should be an All-Star.
To be honest, I hadn’t really thought about moving Nene in the offseason. There’s just been so much going on, and with Nene locked into that contract I just assumed he’d be here for a long time. Trading him is an interesting possibility that I am convinced the FO will look into.
But here’s why I don’t think it gets done: trading Nene would represent a big shift in the the direction of the team. Since the current regime began its tenure, only two trades involving key players have been completes (yes, Nene and JR are key players). Both times the key player involved was Allen Iverson, who was somewhat divisive, not very useful, and didn’t have a history with Denver.
By trading Nene and/or JR, the FO is signifying that they are able and willing to make drastic changes to the team in order to improve. But the thing is, as far as I can tell, the FO isn’t really known for making big trades. Obviously there were the Miller/Iverson/Billups pair of trades, and there was the Camby “trade,” but outside of them the FO has been cautious when dealing.
Now I get that four/five years isn’t a very long time. But so far what we’ve seen is a willingness to let players develop themselves (unless GK didn’t like them – Sonny Weems). They’ve been patient with Nene, with JR, with Melo. They’ve waited all this time, despite Melo struggling with various issues and Nene/JR failing to live up to potential. Even after last year’s WCF loss, the FO stayed very cautious, only making a few small deals. What makes you think they will do any differently this year? Particularly with Kroenke not providing the money to do so?
I see the logic behind trading Nene/JR. They’re both top-level athletic talents whose basketball talents haven’t quite caught up. But I just can’t see a trade happening with the way the FO has been going these past few years. And it’s going to have to be a heck of a return for those two.
Also, Nene is not a bad fit for this team.
And I don’t know how removing the longest-tenured Nugget will influence team chemistry. But yeah, like I said, whoever gets dealt to the Nuggets has to be a very good player. Please no salary dumping unless they plan to do something with that extra room.
by Uh on Mar 29, 2010 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions
We have a fast-paced team
If we have a traditional center, that center would run outta gas.
Kevin Love as center?
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Just suggestions for targets
Not people that the Nuggets necessarily have to shoot for. What are the Nuggets’ biggest needs right now? Rebounding and a defensive post presence. We don’t need a guy who can run the break and dunk, we have those in spades. We need someone a la Kenyon who can play the post, get 12 boards a game, and if he’s open, collect some easy dunks and putbacks.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 2:45 PM MDT up reply actions
Aaron Gray is a stiff, and TT is not the long term answer
Aaron Gray is big but can’t defend, TT is good off the boards but I think Charlotte’s already fallen in love with him.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Boozer not happening...
Bret Bearup post a tweet a while back saying something along the lines of…I wonder what team is gonna f*ck up and give Boozer a max deal this summer. I don’t think boozer’s even an option.
"I know the game of basketball is one-on-one (oriented), but the pain of beating a defense by the pass — it confuses and frustrates the defense more than just going by a guy one-on-one." George Karl
by NuggetsLife on Mar 29, 2010 11:18 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree
Salary dumping won’t help, but we’re already over the cap next season with just 5 players signed – Melo, Chauncey, JR, Nene, and Kenyon. Ouch.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions
Nene isn't going anywhere
If anyone is going somewhere it’s Kenyon Martin (I’m afraid). His ridiculous contract (Which he showed this year he’s worth it) that’s expiring in 2011 combined with his injury history probably means hasta la vista…
Nene was built for a team that is great for running and gunning, but the problem is Chauncey Billups is not the point guard to run that kind of offense. While we can break off a few fast breaks here and there CB1 really likes the half-court offense and getting plays set. This is where Nene struggles to get position.
I think with Kenyon gone, we’ll see Nene move back to the 4 which I hope will get him working on his perimeter defense (or lack of). We then either trade for a Center possibly using Kmart as a piece and we go from there.
I still don't see Nene being that fit for all the reasons mentioned above
Nene would be perfect in a Nellieball system where all he’s required to do is dunk and run, but in Denver we need a big who can rebound and box out. Nene currently does neither very well. And as you’ve indicated, CB1 has tried to slow the pace of the games.
Kenyon will more than likely opt-in this offseason for his player option (given the potential lockout) and stick with the Nuggets. I think it’s also pretty apparent that without Kenyon, the Nugs are in deep shit with respect to their defense.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions
Kenyon when healthy is indeed worth the money
But I don’t see how he can play much longer, especially if plans on playing come playoff times (where he most likely won’t be 100%). Nuggets can go after some free agents this summer (Tyrus Thomas, Chris Bosh) with the money they would save off loading Kmart’s contract
You only trade Kmart if it is for a top teir stud or a combo of 2 very good power forwards
It is either Kmart for Bosh in a sign and trade or Kmart for Boozer and Thomas if those two guys contracts can come withing 125% of Kmart’s 17 million or whatever.
Yes, gotta get value in return for KMart. Which is why I'm advocating trading Nene :)
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions
There will be plenty of value out there for kmart i imagine
Lots of teams may be looking to free up salary for 2 seasons from now. Kmart’s expiring will look atractive to a bunch of teams once the offseason is here.
by Gasus on Mar 29, 2010 11:06 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Trade KMart, then see if he's bought out and resign him
This is what the Cavs did with Ilgauskas
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
The NBA is working on closing this loophole apparently
But of course they will keep it open temporarily for their favorite team the Nuggets, right?
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 7:34 AM MDT up reply actions
Yep
If you remember this season the most coveted player on the trade market? Marcus Camby. Why? Because Camby not only had a big expiring deal but also was a capable player (unlike Raef LaFrenz) next year K-mart will have an even bigger expiring contract and is a better overall player then Camby. The Nuggets will most likely get big offers for him, undoubtedly able to get good value in return. The only question is whether or not GK will let them do it
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
well almost maybe
I agree kenyonis our best big defender, and probally our best overall defender. I also think he does a good job of rebounding and so-so for scoring. But I do not think he is worth the ammount he is making. I would put him at the 10 mil range at max, because of his injury issues, and age, and so-so scoring. I love him, and need him, but his contract is treating us like we are the small guy in prison.
I am advocating for a deal to bring in Bosh
Kmart for Bosh straight up in a sign and trade with some team that doesn’t give a shit about winning (there are many out there that may want the cap space 2 summers from now)
or
Nene and JR for Bosh and another shooting wing off the bench in a sign and trade (many teams looking to win 2 to 3 years down the road my be in for a deal like this as both Nene and JR’s contracts are very fairly priced)
I agree with the Nene and JR for Bosh deal
But I think the F.O. keeps Kenyon through his contract. He’s proven how valuable he is to this team, injuries or not. We’re lost on defense without him.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Yes but his contract is a massive burden
Kmart is just too big of an injury concern… He’s not reliable, that same massive hit would easily pays for Chris bosh
Think Bosh wants to come to Denver?
Who becomes the “defensive QB” if Kenyon’s gone?
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Bosh will play d if he is on a championship caliber team I believe
He reminds me a lot of KG. KG was known for his scoring and rebounding when he was in Minnesota and had no problem switching to a defensive stallwart. I think a guy with the talent of Bosh can do whatever he puts his mind to. I think we should throw Staudemire into this discussion as well.
Plus Bosh would love to come to Denver I imagine
He would have a shot at a title every year with Melo on his team.
Bosh
has said he wants to be the “alpha dog” of whatever team he ends up on. This is why its leading many people to believe he stays in Toronto, not so sure he wants to play with Melo. Also you have to consider the competition for a sign and trade deal. K-mart for Bosh? not going to happen, not when NY can sign and trade David Lee and another piece. Im guessing Toronto would much rather have the younger sturdier Lee and another piece then the aging K-mart. The Nugz will have their chance to move him, but it won’t be the offseason, it’ll be mid season next year
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Find a cheap ass owner who's fearful of the pending NBA lockout.
Maybe the Clippers, or the Raptors maybe the Knicks?
Kaman and Gooden for Martin
Chris Bosh sign and trade
David Lee and a couple of scrubs?
Blurgh, no Kaman and Gooden
I’d take Lee and Gallinari for JR/Nene though. :D
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Lee doesn't really solve the big man problem I don't think
Would you really run him at center? Good Idea talent wise but the Nugs would get even smaller with this trade I think.
Nope
David Lee is 6’10", Nene is 6’9"
Both weigh about the same
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Lee listed at 6'9", Nene at 6'11"
Can’t have it both ways.
by Artimus Mangilord on Mar 30, 2010 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions
Yeah but I still see better results out of D Lee
“Product of the system” me all you want, but Lee knows how to board and box. That’s all I want to see.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 31, 2010 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions
New Jersey Nets
Trade KMart, Swish and Tacos for Yi Jianlian, Brook Lopez and Tony Battie. Then just waive Battie if the trade gets through.
Won't happen unless we send them a talented young big
Brook Lopez is beast. He’s the cornerstone right now for what looks to be a promising squad in the future. Why trade two of their only 4 valuable assets for extra cap space and a headache whose value lies in his potential, which at 26 (25?) he may never reach?
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 7:36 AM MDT up reply actions
After the Nets draft John Wall
I’d put money that Devin Harris trade talks start heating up. just saying
"I know the game of basketball is one-on-one (oriented), but the pain of beating a defense by the pass — it confuses and frustrates the defense more than just going by a guy one-on-one." George Karl
Seriously, the Nyets have enough wing players
And we’d have to give our next two first-rounders if we want Lee, and that doesn’t come until like 2015, and by then we might need that pick.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
The Nets are a haard team to pitch trade ideas at
because we have no idea what that team will look like after the free agency period, but i’d be willing to bet a big name goes there, yeah the nets stink this year, something fierce, but if they get turner or wall in the draft then think about it. Wall/Turner, Lee, Lopez, Yi, Harris and free agent x1 and x2. that team could drastically turn around
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Kmart is my favorite player in the NBA and has been for years
I’ve been defending him on Stiffs for around 2 years now but if the Nugs don’t get to the finals this year then Kmart’s injuries every year must be dealt to someone else. Bosh will be on the market so this would be the ultimate time to move on the Kmart deal.
Even AI
couldn’t cut down on Melo’s shooting load. I’m starting to wonder if Melo’s shooting load isn’t self-inflicted.
Jibbles is an older man so you can trust what he says.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 29, 2010 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions
I think it is but you should be careful saying that around here
Guys tare your head off for saying anything negative about the sacred cow
Melo's still the #1 option
But I agree. Having a go-to C who’ll drive it in to the rim every time would also help keep Melo fresh for the stretch run.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions
Don’t get me wrong. I still love Melo. But I don’t think he switches focus to other aspects of his game often enough when his shots aren’t falling. He could and should be able to help the team win in many ways other than just scoring.
Jibbles is an older man so you can trust what he says.
by Bob in Boulder on Mar 29, 2010 3:22 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree I am just giving you fair warning
I’ve been trying to open peoples eyes on this site to the fact that Melo needs to do many things different for the Nugs to win it all for a couple years now and I get blasted for it every time.
A well thought out and put together critique of Melo
rec’d….I’m all for critique when it’s not mindless bashing.
"Groovy" Ash from Evil Dead 2
"No one came from miles around / and said man your music is really hot" No One Came...Deep Purple
Wait, WHAT???????????????????????????????
First of all, the Raptors would want more in return for a S&T for Bosh. Second, our luxury tax situation would be fixed for the next 5 years, which means that we can’t resign guys like Afflalo without going way over the tax. Third, Bosh is too skinny, and he doesn’t really play defense. These games without KMart show how important his defense is.
I know some of you are going to kill me for this, but Nene for Dalembert, Speights, and the Sixers’ first rounders in 2011 and 2012.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
I like that deal
Speights is a young big guy who if I recall correctly has a decent upside. Dalembert sucks. But his contract is gone after 2011 I think?
No, I’ll be honest. I really just like the thought of having first round draft picks two years in a row! Whoa!
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 7:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Yeah
And the Sixers suck and don’t seem like they’ll stop sucking, so those two draft picks will both be Top 10. Speights is a young athletic big man who’s 6’11" and 240 lbs. I just threw Dalembert in it so that 1) the Sixers would do the trade, 2) the salaries would match, and 3) Dalembert would be a good 3rd big.
Our starting frontline of Speights and Nene won’t really intimidate anybody, but we’ll have the BEST big man bench with Dalembert and Birdman. Dalembert is averaging 8.1 ppg and 9.6 rpg in around 25 minutes per game. In this scenario, Nene would play 32 minutes, Speights would play 25, Dalembert would play 25, and Birdman would only need to play 14 minutes. Also, if one of our big men go down, we won’t have to panic at all.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
I'm really sorry
I meant KMart…
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Or maybe this:
KMart and Balkman for Tayshaun Prince, Jason Maxiell, Jonas Jerebko, and the Pistons’ first rounder (currently 5th).
Joe Dumars would actually do this, not only because he’s our exclusive trading partner but also because Balkman’s contract ends in the same year as Maxiell’s, but is for 3.3 million less each year. We could use that first rounder to draft a true big like Derrick Favors
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Jeez don't get our hopes up too much
We’d lose KMart but gain Maxiell, Jerebko, and a guy like Favors? Then Prince for good measure? Wow. I don’t think Dumars would do that, and not only because he was embarrassed by the Nuggets FO last two times.
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions
K-Mart Blue Light Special
Ain’t happening for Bosh. That’s delusional.
by Artimus Mangilord on Mar 30, 2010 4:23 PM MDT up reply actions
If Bosh wanted to come here
Then why wouldn’t a team like Kmart’s huge expiring contract? If there is a team out there with cap space (which there are many going into this offseason) then why wouldn’t they take his contract to make a play at free agents 2 offseasons from now? You have seen how many are doing it this year and it will be a smaller amount next year but there will still be plenty of teams freeing up space to try to sign free agents.
expirings are good
won’t be as good though next year because the free agent class is not as star studded. I’m pretty sure Toronto wants young talent in return for Bosh
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Who cares what Toronto wants?
The sign and trade can come from any team in the league, not just Toronto.
nene is 6'11" AND HE IS NOT A FORWARD
the big problem with nene this year is the 3 player rotation at center and power forward. he plays the 1st 8 minutes of the game. andersen subs for him. nene comes back into the game and subs for kmart. this is where he stops being productive. he chases a forward around and is taken outside away from the backboard. he has limited offensive game facing the basket in the half court. being a starting center in the nba is a big job. nene is being asked to do too much and things he is not capable of doing. that is not his fault. he relies on athleticism instead of the funamentals and has a low basketball IQ. again that is not his fault. that does not make him a bad guy or mean he is dumb. he is from brazil, their national sport is soccer and he had a late start in basketball. nene and the nuggets would have been better off with a 2 player rotation at center- nene and andersen. nuggets would have had a 3 player rotation at both forward spots with melo, kmart and graham. using a 4 player rotation at guard would have given them a 9 player team rotation just like last year. the bottom line nene, melo, kmart and andersen would have played less minutes. a 2 player rotation at center would have given nene about 30+ minutes per game with andersen getting the remainder. graham would have played 8 minutes per game in a jon brockman (sacramento) role would have take 4 minutes each off the minute per game average of kmart and melo. bottom line with nene is limit his role to center and shorten his minutes he could be way more effective.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
I agree about the expanded rotations
But again in 8 years we haven’t seen the explosive corner-turning growth out of Nene that we all predicted he’d have with a finally healthy season. He’s been healthy nearly two seasons in a row now and still is the same old 14/7 guy he always had.
Now, playing Graham additional minutes and asking him to cover some of the PF is something I am totally for. However, Karl has always been a short rotation kind of guy and with that being the case I think Nene is always going to be stuck playing the combo.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions
by the way...
Nene is listed at 6’11" But he is NOT. Have you been to a game and sat down there? He is 6’9" or 10 at best. Proof being Camby is a honest 6’11" Nene is short of that. He could play either position 4or 5, but Not both. They either need a bigger center or as you said play the rotations the other way
by The U.N. Fab Five on Mar 29, 2010 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions
Nene is not even 6'10"
In the Knicks game, David Lee seemed about an inch or an inch and a half taller than Nene. And David Lee is barely 6’10"
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
How about we send Melo and Nene to Orlando for Dwight Howard and Vince Carter...
Ok, ok I’ll promise to put the pipe down and shrooms
I would personally never do that...
I say Melo and KMart for the entire Thunder team. The salaries kinda work…
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Maybe throw Chauncey in there and in return the Thunder give us their next 10 first rounders.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Sorry BS
This is the cheapest shot yet. I understand you are a guy willing to look the other way at coaching decisions, the Anthony Carter situation, the Malik Allen situation, the refusal to play Johan Petro decision but somehow singling out Nene as being a weak link in the frontcourt is a huge joke. Did you know he is among top 5 centers in the league considering all around production, steals, field goal and free throw percentages? His contract fits perfectly for a luxury tax team trying to scale back costs and remain competitive. There aren’t many players making the same money as Nene who are better. Realize that while the Nuggets are struggling mightily through their toughest time right now, no one misses K-Mart more than Nene. He’s playing a role right now he is not suited for. Give him some credit for playing every game in a year that could arguably the franchise’s best ever, and coming back from cancer to do it.
The hamstring you speak of is K-Mart’s contract. He is the highest paid player on the Nuggets, paid like a top 10 player in the NBA. That doesn’t make sense unless you are a title contending team and money is no object.
I hear ya RD
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree. Watching Nene again play timid throughout the game tonight and kick out the ball for a turnover on the perimeter during a critical stretch was just awful. I agree that Kenyon’s contract is also an albatross, but AC will be gone next year along with Malik and AD will be sitting on the sidelines again.
I’m just sick and tired of seeing so much talent and ability that Nene has and watch him constantly waste it but not using all his talents.
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Mar 29, 2010 10:33 PM MDT up reply actions
i'm with you beefy
But I’m leaning towards moving the nugs mvp (kmart). Just can’t watch him get injured every year unless they win the title this year.
by Gasus on Mar 29, 2010 11:12 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
AC will be gone next year???!!!!
Don’t tell George Karl that
Anthony Carter is the Darth Vader of the Denver Nuggets
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Hey guys...
If we’re trading KMart, it has to be during next season, as that’s when expirings are worth the most. Especially close to the trade deadline. If we wait until then, we can get a really good deal for him…
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Or
Maybe sign and trade him for young bigs. The likes of Joakim Noah, Tyrus Thomas or even Robin Lopez.
Joakim Noah is going to be extended in Chicago
He averages 12 ppg, 11 rpg, and 2 blocks per game. Bulls management may be stupid, but they’re not that dumb.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
trading K-Mart
if we are going to have to trade k-mart, then how about this:
nuggets receive:
tyson chandler
tyrus thomas (4 years/$26 mill)
bobcats receive:
kenyon martin
renaldo balkman
i do realize that we’re essentially trading an injured player (our defensive leader) for another injured player (kmart for chandler) and that we are banking on thomas not pricing himself out of our range, but i could see a lot of benefits from this. thomas adds to our depth and makes our bench that much better, and when healthy (big if), chandler provides solid rebounding and defense and allows nene to slide over to the 4. i suppose it might take some (possibly a lot) convincing on charlotte’s part, but this was the same team that took on contracts such as desagana diop and boris diaw, and kmart and balkman seem to fit into what they’re doing over there.
as opposed to getting boozer or bosh?
two defensive stalwarts? /sarcasm off
if you haven’t noticed, our offense isn’t a major concern. yes it blows chunks right now. but the last thing this team needs is another offense-first, defense-what? player.
i’m just curious though. what is the premise of your suggestion for bosh (fuck boozer)? is it assuming the raptors are so desperate to get anything out of this off-season that they can simply S&T wherever they feel? or is it that bosh would like to play in denver alongside melo? because if it’s the former, toronto has absolutely no leverage in where bosh wants to go (in spite of what wishful raptor fans would like to believe)
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions
What makes you think Toronto has to sign and trade Bosh?
Why can’t any team in the league do it? Don’t you think Bosh would love to be paired with his draft mate? Bosh reminds me a lot of KG when he was younger. KG was a scorer and rebounder and often in the discussion for MVP just like Bosh. With talent like Bosh all it takes is a willingness to play defense and he will become one of the best, mark my words. Boozer and Tyrus Thomas for Kmart in a sign and trade would work well too. It would give the Nugs their much needed depth at power forward and an upgrade offensively. It would also give TT a very good power forward to learn under. 11 million to Boozer and 6 million to TT and the Nugs have solidified their frontcourt with guys that don’t go down every year with knee injuries and can score and rebound.
You are stoned if you don’t think a guy like Bosh or Staudemire can’t play defense if they are asked to. Both the Raptors and Suns don’t emphasize defense at all and try to outscore their opponents in high scoring games. With these two it is definitely the systems they play under that make them look much worse than they are on D and I have 100% faith that both of these enormously talented guys can d up if asked to. Either could quarteback a good defensive system if they had the Nugs remaining talent surrounding them.
if it only it were that easy
first of all, my knowledge in regards to free agency and contracts is extremely limited, but from my understanding, and i would assume this is general knowledge, you need the space/rights to sign bosh to even think about signing him, let alone S&Ting; so the only team that can properly S&T bosh to the deal we presume HE wants (6 years, $130 million) is toronto because they hold those rights (which is why there is all this S&T discussion). unless you are going under the assumption that NY, chicago, miami, or any other team with significant amount of capspace are willing to sacrifice all of it just so they could get any one of the big-name FAs in order to obtain the services of a hobbled kenyon martin and wait another year to get another FA.
and you’re crazy if you think boozer is going to be fine with $11 million. there’s a reason why he didn’t opt out of his contract, and it sure wasn’t because he was thrilled with the idea of playing another season in SLC.
i don’t doubt that bosh/stoudemire could become better defensive players if they were put in a position if they had to by the way. but let’s be realistic here: we’re not likely to get them, so let’s put that pipe dream away for now.
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 1:09 PM MDT up reply actions
?
Any team with space could sign him and trade him. Then Kmart’s contract comes off the books after next season. So say the Knicks only get one big name and want to make a run for 1 year then chase another free agent in the offseason after next year, they could make the deal with Bosh. Many teams have freed up space for this offseason and many will strike out. No rights will be needed for Bosh because he is an unrestricted free agent at the end of this season.
Anyone that signs Boozer for more than $11 million is crazy
Dude is good but he for damn sure isn’t a max contract guy.
Plus the nugs can go up to like 20 million in a trade for Kmart
The trade has to be within 125% of his salary since they are over the cap.
The Nuggets had better pick one hell of a player
If they’re going to replace Kenyon Martin. Seriously, think about it. You guys really think Nene, Bird, and Petro can play like Martin?
Chicken Wings = Murder!
"You guys really think Nene, Bird, and Petro can play like Martin?"
Yeah, I think recent results can tell us a lot about the answer to this question.
by ParkHillNative on Mar 31, 2010 10:53 AM MDT up reply actions
When you are thinking about rights
You are either thinking about this year or the fact that after the season is over Bosh can sign for 1 extra year if he signs in Toronto. I think he can get 6 or 7 years in Toronto or 5 or 6 if he leaves without a sign and trade. So no, Toronto doesn’t have to be the sign and trade partner even though they may end up being that partner. What big name wants to play in Toronto that will be a free agent this year? Many stars have no trade clauses too and I do not believe that Kmart does. He may be about the best they are going to do this year.
my question is why would NY want to help us in any way, shape or form this off-season? they’ve clearly gone all in on the 2010 bonanza based on their moves over the past few seasons. why would they want to help us just so they can wait another season? ditto goes for chicago, miami or any other team with significant cap space for this offseason. they want these FAs just as much as we do, but they have the power; we don’t. just doesn’t make any sense from their perspective.
and to my knowledge, toronto is indeed the only place that he can actually receive the full max from if that is what he desires, hence why you hear about toronto in the S&T rumors and nowhere else.
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 4:28 PM MDT up reply actions
oh and someone will be crazy enough to offer boozer at least $17 mill. doesn’t matter who, but someone out there will, and it’ll almost certainly be whoever misses out on the big name FAs (lebron, wade, bosh, stoudemire and joe johnson)
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Disagree on Boozer but I guess we'll just have to wait and see
But on Bosh there are plenty of reasons why a team would do it. You have allready heard about NY possibly only signing one contract this year and making a play for Melo next year. There are tons of teams with cap space this coming offseason and all the Nugs need is one to sign and trade Bosh for Kmart’s expiring. I would say that there will be more than one team out there looking to grab a free agent 2 offseasons from now, yet alone none.
i get what you mean
but unless bosh demands that he wants to be in denver and nowhere else (and there have been absolutley no signs showing he’s interested), then he’s not coming. so you can forget about that bosh to denver pipe dream.
oh, and melo to NY in 2011? it’s not gonna happen. there’s too much at stake for NY management to wait out another season. they’ve already surrendered their pick for 2012 and houston has the right to swap their picks for 2011 just for this offseason. add to the fact that they don’t have their pick this season, and those new york fans are just waiting to rip the FO apart over there if they fall short of their 2010 goal. hell, they might be a candidate to overpay for boozer and some other FA if things don’t work out.
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 4:55 PM MDT up reply actions
I truly don't think it is a pipe dream as you suggest
Salaries match and Kmart’s is expiring. Tons of teams have cap room for the sign and trade. If something great can come from losing Kmart, this is the year it could happen. Staudemire is another that this same thing could happen with.
once again
it is only possible if bosh says he wants to play for the nuggets. if he WANTS to play for the NUGGETS. that is the only way it can happen. denver can’t just walk up and say “HEY, we want bosh” because they don’t have the cap space to offer him the contract. miami, new york and chicago do. hence why they are always mentioned as possible destinations if bosh does choose to leave toronto.
by goldennuggets on Mar 30, 2010 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
All it comes down to is
Whether or not the Nugs can find a team that wants Kmart’s expiring and whether or not Bosh or Staudemire want to come to Denver. If either of them do then a deal could surely be done.
Johnson and Boozer to NY
for the tune of 32 million?
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Gasus, you ever watch Suns or Raptors games?
Sure, if they play defense they’d be a good deal better, but they don’t have the willingness to do so, and the only guy who has the temper to force them to play D is Stan Van Gundy, and the Magic just signed him to a big extension. Also, they are power forwards, and we have goddamn enough power forwards.
Since we’re like 20 million over the cap, we can’t sign them outright, and the Raptors and Suns will get much better than what we have to offer in a sign and trade. If a player is committed to leaving his team, then their original team doesn’t have any incentive to please him and will just take the best offer. Many other teams have young players oozing with potential or lottery draft picks that they’d offer. While tough, KMart doesn’t fit any of that, and the team would only have him for a year, which means that they’d just let Bosh/Amar’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’e walk for nothing, which is why they’ll take the offers of other teams.
Bosh is way to damn skinny, and his work ethic isn’t that great. Amar’’’’’’’’’’’’’e is the cockiest SOB in the league, so we’d need a guy like Stan Van Gundy to make Amar’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’e play defense
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
Did you know that every time you mention Amare
The number of apostrophes changes?
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Kmart's expiring is like gold
If there is a free agent a team wants after next season then you would be suprised what they would do for Kmart’s expiring. All the Nugs have to do is get on with Bosh and get him to agree to come here. The team that signs and trades him won’t have any choice about keeping bosh so getting something better is really a moot point. All they have to do is find a team that wants Kmart’s huge expiring to open up cap for the offseason after next and you can make the deal.
Cool now we have a GoldenNugget and a goldennuggets
by Uh on Mar 30, 2010 1:31 PM MDT up reply actions

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