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Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

Ryan (Cleveland):
Why do other teams seem convinced they have a realistic shot at signing Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Just because one side is interested doesn't make it mutual

Bill Simmons:
A few mailbags ago, I remember writing a riff about "Stories That Just Need To Stop Being Covered Until We Get An Official Answer Because They're So Freaking Boring To Begin With." I think this qualifies. Just tell us when Z signs, and where. if he's playing more than 12 mins a game for your team in the playoffs, you're going home before mid-June.

5 months ago Nuggets_alternate_logo_tiny Nate Timmons 40 comments 0 recs  | 

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I really hope

Wark works his magic and brings Z in. It’s unlikely but it would be soooo sweet.

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Feb 25, 2010 9:49 AM MST reply actions  

30-day rule?

How does the 30-day rule impact Big Z’s playoff roster status if he resigns with Cleveland? Isn’t March 1st the cutoff date?

by djyoung71 on Feb 25, 2010 9:49 AM MST reply actions  

That's what I thought too. Thanks for clearing that up.

I think if he signs with Cleveland today or early tomorrow, he was always going back to Cleveland no questions asked. If he makes a decision this weekend, I think he considered other teams. Should be interesting. I am hoping he doesn’t have an answer until Saturday in which hopefully would be Denver haha

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Feb 25, 2010 9:52 AM MST up reply actions  

Thanks for clarifying that

Man he’s going back to Cleveland. No doubt this was prearranged

by CombatChuk on Feb 25, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions  

What a f**king joke

Let’s just hope we can pull off the same thing with KMart next season and like rip Kevin Love off the Wolves or something.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:06 PM MST up reply actions  

never going to happen

z will lose one third of his salary because of a buy out. z or any player does not have to accept the buy out. no way kmart will give up 5+ million. this is why denver may have the inside track. z was owed 3.5 million. he was bought out for 1.5 million saving washington 2 million. denver has an exception for 1.9 million. z goes back to the cavs he will get one third of the vet minimum of 1.3 million. choose between 1.9 million and 400 thousand. z will have more minutes and make a bigger contribution with denver then being part of a 15 player roster.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Feb 25, 2010 7:31 PM MST up reply actions  

it's confusing all right

Is it that he can’t play for them for 30 days, but he can sign now?

by ParkHillNative on Feb 25, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions  

Of course Big Z can sign now and play later. He'd never consider the Cavs if he wasn't going to be playoff eligible.

Read this.

The whole controversy surrounding this is that the Cavs traded him and can get him back by the playoffs by signing him before March 1st.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions  

Nah, nah, nah.

Z definitely has to wait until March 21st before he can sign with Cleveland. He has to wait those 30 days.

What the rule states is that he if he was on the wizards roster as of march 1st then he couldnt play in the playoffs for any other team. So basically he just needed to be waived or bought out by March 1st making him a free agent. Since he is he can sign with whoever now or wait until March 21st and sign with the Cavs. Either way he’s good for the playoffs.

Think about how Marbury sign with the Celtics last year very late in the season.

by GottaLoveMelo on Feb 25, 2010 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

We’re both saying the same thing basically.

He can’t “officially” sign with the Cavs for 30-days (like Brent Barry with the Spurs a few years ago). So he’ll officially sign around March 26th or 27th, but either way … he’ll be available for the playoffs with the Cavs.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 1:13 PM MST up reply actions  

Wow...

Big Z is gonna get a paid vacation. Sweet deal for these inside deal guys.

by djyoung71 on Feb 25, 2010 9:55 AM MST reply actions  

according to the espn article

he had to shell out 1.5M of his own ducats for the buyout. I can’t think that the Nug’s and Mav’s TPEs won’t play some part in his decision given that.

by Ski Bum on Feb 25, 2010 4:08 PM MST up reply actions  

I dunno

Because there’s no way he’d land here.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:07 PM MST up reply actions  

There may be hope

“Z has not made up his mind where he will play,‘’ Rudoy wrote. "He is giving it a lot of thought.’’

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Feb 25, 2010 10:09 AM MST reply actions  

true

he does know Wark though… Maybe if Wark offered Z the spare bedroom at the top of the Pepsi Center in Kronke’s pent house he would take the offer =)

"Don't chase the money, chase the dream"

by Garrett Olsen on Feb 25, 2010 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

Man I WISH!!

Oh Well, I’m hoping to look forward to Adrian Dantley coaching tonight… Maybe Johan Petro will get some more meaningful minutes tonight.

by CombatChuk on Feb 25, 2010 10:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Dantley usually uses an even tighter rotation than Karl

And this is against a coach who’s rotations are all over the place.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Here is a One-On-One: The 30-Day Rule from ESPN:

The only thing Ric Bucher and Chris Broussard like to do more than report on the NBA is argue about the NBA. So we decided to combine those two skills in our weekly One-on-One series, in which they’ll debate the hottest topics in the Association. Today they deal with the 30-day rule, in which a traded player who is subsequently waived can re-sign with his old team after 30 days.

QUESTION: Is the 30-day rule fair?

Bucher: It doesn’t surprise me that our man from Cleveland and LeBron’s BFF would argue in favor of this rule, seeing as it allowed the Cavs to acquire Antawn Jamison from the Wizards for the 30th draft pick and a one-month vacation for Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who will mostly likely come back to Cleveland ASAP now that the Wizards have bought him out. I don’t like that league rules have made it so arduous to make deals, but keeping this loophole is not the way to do it. This is a professional league, not a library. There are myriad rules about trading draft picks, cash, newly signed or excessively compensated players, all of them meant to protect the competitive balance of the league from the rich owners who would buy a title and the poor ones who would hock their fans’ dreams of one. Why have any rules if you’re going to allow one that undercuts all the others?

Broussard: All the hubbub about this rule was typical gamesmanship by Phil Jackson. Jackson called it "weird’ that Ilgauskas will be able to go back to Cleveland in 30 days and now much of the national media, including my gullible friend Mr. Bucher, have fallen for Jackson’s latest Zen mind-tease.

Bucher: It’s not gamesmanship unless there’s some advantage to be earned. What was to be gained by Phil complaining?

Broussard: There most certainly was a potential advantage to be earned: 1) The league could step in and deny Ilgauskas the right to return to Cleveland (I know it won’t happen, but that could have been Phil’s motivation); 2) The Wizards could have tired of hearing how they’re giving the Cavs a championship and decided not to buy out Ilgauskas; and 3) The league gets rid of the rule in the next collective bargaining agreement.

Bucher: There isn’t anything in the rules to prevent Z from going back to Cleveland — but there should be. It’s cap circumvention, plain and simple, a deep-pockets team taking advantage of a team in the midst of an ownership change and a front office trying to create a blank slate for the new guy. Why not just allow playoff teams to buy players outright from lottery teams looking to make a buck? This is basically the same thing. All the league’s trade rules were created to assure equitable trades and I know you’re not such a Cavs homer that you’d suggest the 30th pick for Antawn is an even exchange.

Broussard: Where was the outcry when Detroit traded Antonio McDyess to Denver last season only to re-sign him in 30 days? You hardly heard a peep about it then. It’s not surprising that the two teams that have cried about the rule — Boston and the Lakers — are among those with the most to lose by an Ilgauskas return to Cleveland. Let’s face it: Loopholes are as American as apple pie, and sometimes even the "Mistake on the Lake’’ gets to benefit from them.

Bucher: I’m pretty sure the Cavs weren’t happy that Detroit could trade McDyess to Denver and get him back despite the fact that Cleveland offered him more money and was rejected. Besides, there’s a rule against trading a player back to the same team that already traded him in a season. This is a direct contradiction to that rule. How can that be OK? I’ve talked to a team not even in the playoffs that is angry because the league assured everyone it wouldn’t allow such deals to take place anymore. Fact is, the league legally can’t stop such moves now. But I guarantee you it will in the next collective bargaining agreement. And then owner Dan Gilbert, whether he likes it or not, will take his place right next to one of his predecessors, Ted Stepien, who had a loophole closed in his honor as well.

Broussard: I agree with you, the league will definitely kill this loophole in the new CBA. But what people are overlooking is that it’s not as cut and dried as it seems. While the Cavs certainly hoped the Wizards would buy out Z, we know there was no agreement made prior to the trade because the league hasn’t found evidence of one and because these two teams aren’t exactly the best of friends. That being the case, even thought Washington cut Z, it doesn’t mean he’ll automatically land with the Cavs. Another club could swoop in and offer Z more money than Cleveland can. Seeing that three of the teams with reported interest in Z are all conference contenders (Dallas, Denver, Atlanta), there’s the chance of his going to one of them. Also, even before he gets to sign elsewhere, he could be claimed off waivers.

Bucher: Talk about gullible. Zydrunas spent a couple hours in Washington and then flew back to his home in Cleveland. The buyout was done before this debate was even finished. He can’t be claimed off waivers because no one has $11 million in cap room to take his contract. He has no more chance of going anywhere other than Cleveland than McDyess had of going anywhere other than back to the Motor City, even though the same talk about “other suitors” and McDyess being “upset” was floated. That charade has to be acted out or the league would potentially have evidence of a pre-existing deal to squash him going back — and that, not Phil squawking, is what it would take to stop it.

Broussard: I realize that all of those scenarios are unlikely, but that’s largely because of Z’s affinity for Cleveland. In the likely event that Z winds up back with the Cavs, this was kind of like the perfect storm for them. I mean, how often is a guy with such a huge expiring contract, who has been with the franchise his entire career, who is completely committed to the team and city, able to be traded for an All-Star who could put the team over the top? As unfair as the rule may seem in this case, it’s not very often that it happens to this degree (where it could have title implications).

Bucher: That’s just not true. It happened with McDyess, Brent Barry and now Z — all going back to title-contending teams at the time. The dichotomy between the haves and have-nots in the league is greater than ever, and with a struggling economy, your perfect storm is set up to be an unabated monsoon.

Broussard: This particular trade has more impact than the ones you mentioned. Detroit "risked’’ losing McDyess to get Allen Iverson. That move had no championship implications for Detroit (though it certainly helped Denver), and San Antonio got Kurt Thomas for Barry. Neither of those moves can be equated to the Cavs getting a 20-point, 8-rebound guy like Jamison.

And finally, the team in the Cavs’ position also risks disrupting chemistry. It will take Cleveland coach Mike Brown a while to figure out his rotation now that Jamison is aboard. Anderson Varejao and J.J. Hickson are seeing their minutes decline. Then, once Brown gets his club fully acclimated to having Jamison, Ilgauskas will be back, once again throwing the rotation into question with just about a month left before the playoffs begin. So, while this was clearly a coup for Cleveland, there are potential hazards along the way.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 12:12 PM MST reply actions  

Full link here.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 12:13 PM MST up reply actions  

I would've settled for McDyess,

But i wouldn’t turn down “Big Z”! I doubt he will leave Cleveland, BUT seeing how they did him in a trade, i hope he sees how loyal they really are to him. He wants to win a championship. He wants more valuable minutes. He plays D, he is huge on the boards… Why is he not here already! A smarter, but slower Camby!

by valas40 on Feb 25, 2010 12:51 PM MST reply actions  

I don’t recall seeing you post here on Denver Stiffs before … thanks for reading and commenting! And Welcome Aboard!

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

I don't like the Camby comparison

Because he isn’t very much like him except that he’s tall and lanky. Z is 7’3", Camby is 6’11"
Also, Z can nail the 3, but is a traffic cone on defense these days as we saw last year against Orlando. Camby still has the quickness to stick with his man, although whether he wants to or not is an entirely different subject.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Who will Cleveland cut to make room?

They currently carry the league max of 15 players, they’d have to cut someone.

by JR2 on Feb 25, 2010 1:40 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

I’ve read Sebastian Telfair is the likely candidate.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Feb 25, 2010 2:20 PM MST up reply actions  

Or maybe one of the Lacktion Jackson brothers

Or maybe Tarrence Kinsey or Danny Green.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Is there a way to find out how he matched up

historically against Pao and Dirk? Have Pao and Dirk struggled in the past when playing the Cavs?

by margabelle on Feb 25, 2010 2:15 PM MST reply actions  

maybe but

I don’t see Z coming to Denver, a team that has beaten the Cavs several times and surely isn’t liked much by the Cavs players/fans…. though if it really just comes down to $$ then who knows… maybe we can offer him more than Clev. can, but i’d imagine Cuban would be more willing to spend than Stan would…

by InboundingLobPass on Feb 25, 2010 2:36 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

chess moves

IF denver lands the Z man i can see wark winning the executive of the year award again.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Feb 25, 2010 3:14 PM MST reply actions  

Man this would be great

Not only would it improve our team, but it would take away a crucial piece from another championship contender in the cavs

by Cargo5 on Feb 25, 2010 3:36 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

Exec of the Year

i thought the same thing nohoops, when i read about the buyout being official. IF wark get him and stan coughs up the dough, i think it could help us. They cant let Dallas get him though. I think the Nugget should be as aggressive as possible with this one, he is a great center that give these Lakers trouble, and whom i’ve seen destroy the nuggets with some outside shooting.

by Dillon Levi West on Feb 25, 2010 4:24 PM MST reply actions  

Possible starting 5 if we get Z

maybe keep starting rotation and bring z off bench? even better

by Dillon Levi West on Feb 25, 2010 4:28 PM MST reply actions  

agree

he will fit in no matter what. start or come off the bench. i went to the cavs game last year and he was hitting 3 point shots. he can play high post and at 7’3" he is long enough to pass inside. i can see a line up of z, nene, kmart, melo at guard and you or me at the point.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Feb 25, 2010 4:33 PM MST up reply actions  

However, Lawson and Z together would be....

Interesting to say the least.

"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups

by LACK on Feb 25, 2010 7:11 PM MST up reply actions  

z would be a nice reward

Not that I ever wanted “bad knees” McDyess back on the Nuggs, it would be sweet redemption if the Nuggs landed Z. Although lanky and inconsistent (like Nene’s production), he would be an asset on this team, and would clog the middle but spread the opposing defense depending on the called play. I think this rule is also unfair, but it did help us bring Chauncey to town. The only downside there is that McDyess is now playing as a Spur, but the Nuggs (we season ticket holders) still are paying some of the bill!

by timoptic on Feb 25, 2010 5:49 PM MST reply actions  

Rotoworld is reporting...

That he’s going to sign with Cleveland…. again…

ugh…

by Jezru on Feb 26, 2010 5:13 PM MST reply actions  

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The Rox have lost eight of their last 10, including six in a row. During the six-game losing streak Colorado has been outscored 33-13 ... and they might soon be the reason by buddy Rory has a massive heart-attack. But there are still 63 games to go and an upcoming eight-game homestand is hopefully just what the team, and Rory, needs to turn things around.

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