"The Charge" in real time...
Carmelo Anthony's "charge" on Manu Ginobili happened right in front of me in real time. Here's an analysis...
For starters, there is an unwritten rule in the NBA that the referees are to swallow their whistles in end-of-game situations unless a blatantly obvious call has to be made. That wasn't the case tonight.
Watching the play in real time directly in front of my seats, it appeared as though Manu Ginobili did, in fact, set his feet and that Carmelo Anthony did, in fact, commit a charging violation. After all, there's a reason why two referees - Haywoode Workman (a former NBA player no less) and Rodney Mott - called the play simultaneously. The refs, and those of us in the stands, didn't have the benefit of watching the play repeatedly on slow motion replay.
And that's exactly why the referees should have swallowed their whistles and why it's such a horrendously bad call.
Given how subjective most charging violation calls are to begin with, how could an NBA official possibly make such a close call to end a game? And, as an NBA aficionado aptly put it to me as we walked out of the Pepsi Center with our heads down: does anyone think a charge would have been called if Carmelo Anthony were one of the NBA's darlings like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade or Kevin Durant? No chance. I guess there's a reason why Melo leads the NBA in technical fouls, though.
Upon review of the play over and over again after I got home, it's clear the Ginobili stepped into Melo after Melo left his feet, Ginobili moved his body closer towards Melo and Ginobili flopped to boot. The man deserves a Golden Globe. But in real time, it didn't look that way. It looked like Melo charged. But unless the call is indisputably clear - which it wasn't - the referees have to stay out of it. Whether they like the player in question or not.
At the end of the game, Melo walked up to Mott and said: "You know that was bullshit".
Yes it was, Melo. Yes it was.
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What about the fact that RJ was riding Melo the whole way
RJ even gave a shove to Melo at the end to boot. If you look at the replay, RJ initially thought he was getting called for the foul. That stuff happened before the charge.
Why do the refs do that to us in Denver??? This wasn’t even in San Antonio.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
RJ hanging on Melo...
…was incidental contact that – like “the charge” – should just have been a no-call. It’s understood that the end of NBA games in close situations get quite physical, and the refs have to let the guys play and settle it on the court. Not with the whistle.
I have no problem with RJ not getting whistled. I just have a huge problem with Melo getting whistled.
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by Andrew Feinstein on Dec 17, 2010 12:25 AM MST up reply actions
That was kind of my point
I was fine with RJ getting a no call especially because Melo made the bucket. They should have it both ways though.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
Exaclty Andrew they never make that call. This is the worst possible way to lose a gameby the refs. As you said if this was Lebron Kobe or Durant they would have never made that call. It really sucks when the Refs decide a game with one call. Bullshit!
Meloooooo!!!
JR Swish From Way Down Town!!!
Stop Snitchin!!!
Good report on it Andrew
But the refs did go back and look at the replay before deciding to do the jump ball. You would think that in that time they would have looked at the actual call instead of the time to reset the clock to.
Don't forget to thank the men and women who fight for our Country who will not be home with their families this holiday season.
Free JR!!!!!!!!
Steamboat here I come!
There not allowed to review that.
Sorta like in the NFL they wont review penalties no matter what. Even if it was a blatant miss and they are already reviewing the play
Such is life
by broncoboy326 on Dec 17, 2010 1:07 AM MST up reply actions
broncosboy is correct ...
… the refs were just ruling how much time was left on that play. They are not permitted to overrule the shitty call they made.
Had the Nuggets played some defense, hit some free throws, and not blown so many layups this Melo play wouldn’t have even happend.
But the fact remains, refs take over the end of 2 of the last 3 Nuggets games (Knicks and Spurs).
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 17, 2010 8:01 AM MST up reply actions
That call was Complete Bullshit
and you are 100% correct that Melo gets not respect and if it was one of those other stars you mentioned it would have been a non call. I cannot believe they called that bullshit on our home court
by gnarlybroncodude on Dec 17, 2010 12:41 AM MST reply actions
Is it possible that this will make Melo decide to stay
because he loves being the underdog and getting revenge?
Andrew, did you hear Chucky's comments on TNT?
He said the refs did the right thing by making that call. I was beside myself….
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I didn't...
Charles is clearly anti-Carmelo. Remember when he called Melo out for not playing with intensity a few weeks ago? What a joke.
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by Andrew Feinstein on Dec 17, 2010 1:04 AM MST up reply actions
Charles is anti-intelligence
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yeah that was ridiculous.
He gave some props to Melo last night. He kept saying how he was the the best scorer in the league hands down and that he is just flat out good.
I think its more that he’s so pro-Manu. We all know his “GINOBLI!” chant.
by GottaLoveMelo on Dec 17, 2010 6:15 AM MST up reply actions
Reggie Miller...
was claiming that “it was a good call” all night no matter who or what. So yeah, he called it a good call at the end.
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Are you serious
Dick Bavetta will always screw the Nuggets. Spurs will always get the call! I can’t believe these ref’s are still employed. Just like what the Rogue referee said in his book," If Bavetta is officiating I have money on the Spurs."
Thats right all up in your chest!!!!
Nugs beat the line last night though
But I agree with you 100%
I had the Nugs +1.5 and the lost by 1
Thus I got paid so I got some cosalation for having to watch the worst game I have ever watched. Completely ruined by the NBA. How the can isn’t up in arms every time the Spurs come into town is beyond me.
Hate to sound like a doofus, here
But I keep looking at the replay myself and it looks like Ginobili was set before Anthony left the ground. His momentum may have carried himself a hair forward, but no matter how much I’d like to agree with your take, I think they made the right call.
Maybe it’s just 2 a.m. and I’m seeing things weird.
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What about RJ riding Melo
And even pushing him into Ginobili? The refs thought that was worthy of a no call, what about the flop that was questionable at best.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
The right call in this situation is no call.
Solely because that’s the precedent that they (the refs) have set. People EXPECT there to be a no-call in that situation. You can’t honestly tell me that you didn’t expect the refs to swallow their whistle in times like that.
Was that a charge? Well, it’s debatable, but I can’t be too upset because it could have gone either way. But does a “charge” like that CONSISTENTLY get called in the final seconds?! ESPECIALLY on game-winning attempts that GO IN?!
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Ball don't lie!" - Chauncey Billups
I also think it was a charge
Im pissed off they called it because they normally dont, but it was the correct call. I hate to admit it, because Manu does this all the time and sometimes its a plain flop. Sometimes he gets away with it sometimes he doesnt. The guy is good at drawing charges. This time though, it looks to me like his feet were set before Melo jumped. It was close though and could have easily gone the other way. I wish they hadnt called it but I see why they did. The problem is the inconsistency. This has always been the problem in the NBA. Refs are not consistent.. Very tough loss.
+1
especially about hating to admit it…
Really, after a tough physical game like this it’s obnoxious to get prissy on a call that changes the game’s outcome AGAINST the home team.
They should have just swallowed their whistles, although I can think of better places to put them.
So what's the argument about not being able to use replay for these situations?
“It’s not necessary?”
“It slows down the flow of the game?”
FUCK. YOU. STERN. How about “I need to protect my goddamned refs and not let anyone question them?!”
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Ball don't lie!" - Chauncey Billups
You think the refs would have swallowed their pride and actually reversed it?
doubt it
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Quitter's People United member # 42
What about the football system?
Tons more reviews, on generally all the important/controversial plays, and allows coaches to challenge calls/plays. Indisputable evidence? Maybe not on this play would they have reversed it, but there are and will always be plays that should/would be reversed through replay.
"J.R. SMITH! WITH NO REGARD FOR COMMON SENSE!" - Future Kevin Harlan Quote
"Ball don't lie!" - Chauncey Billups
I'd say that the charge would probably have been ruled "indisputable evidence"
more of an opinion call than something like a catch or fumble
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Don't get me started
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by Garrett Olsen on Dec 17, 2010 2:04 AM MST up reply actions
That was one of the most bullshit calls ever.
I screamed and just looked at the TV in bewilderment. Then I thought back to Timmy D throwing himself into Nene for Nene’s 6th foul. Most importantly I thought exactly what Andrew said…If that were Kobe…Lebron…Wade…Durant…probably any other all-star but Melo…I dont see that being called.
Also...
idk if the guy was in the restricted area or not but they didnt call a charge on JR’s dunk earlier in the game which was the same type of call.
Damn that was crazy.
The Spur on that play, I believe George Hill, did have his left foot in the restricted circle.
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 17, 2010 8:03 AM MST up reply actions
ok...I just watched it.
It was gary neal and yeah he had his left foot there so…eh. nvm
by GottaLoveMelo on Dec 17, 2010 8:37 AM MST up reply actions
Ya, Gary Neal ... I missed that ... not sure how.
Probably b/c I’m the opposite of bright!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 17, 2010 12:28 PM MST up reply actions
I'm really not trying to belabor this point
But when I watched it live on my HDTV it did not look like a charge. Melo had already left his feet and was in the air when Ginobli moved in under him.
I just cannot understand how this would be a charge. Can someone please please explain this to me?
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by SDcat09 on Dec 17, 2010 8:22 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
Cuz it's not a charge.
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by Garrett Olsen on Dec 17, 2010 11:57 AM MST up reply actions
I thought Manu was moving as well and that he wasn’t set. Agreed. Homerism? I didn’t think so. In real time I guess the refs felt justified even though the whistles should have been in their stomachs!!!!!!!
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by Nate Timmons on Dec 17, 2010 12:29 PM MST up reply actions
Should never have been in the position
where one call by a ref affects the outcome of the game. Can’t complain about a loss on one call – there were many many plays that contributed to the loss.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 17, 2010 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
When a guy jumps on a charge it is not a charge unless he is met in the air going straight up
Feet have to be set and they were not. Also, the defender cannot lean into the player let alone jump into the player. If people on this site really think it was a charge they seriously need to check themselves and rewatch the replay. Get a fucking clue too.
Besides the fact
The referees got involved in this game late in the first quarter when they realized the Nugs were going to blow the Spurs out. This whole game was controlled by the referees as is customary for a Spurs game. Welcome back to the corruption San Antonio. I hope you are proud of this joke of a “professional sport”.
well said
Whats really hard for me to admit to myself is that the NBA is fixed, well at least some games. That ref who got busted for gambling a few years back describes in detail about how the refs manipulated the a Denver-SA game in 06 or 07 so that SA could win their division which was apparently important to the NBA. Why does the NBA favor the Spurs of all teams? Thats my question. The 2002 WCF was also a ref generated lakers victory. The owner of the Kings should sue the NBA and crack this shit wide open.
by the big bill on Dec 18, 2010 4:45 AM MST up reply actions
I'm gonna quit looking at it.
I’m sitting at work and I’m getting pissed watching this replay.
I mean Ginobli looks like a wrestler with the super exaggeration he displayed.. I mean his feet flopped up in the air so damn high…AAHHHHHHHHHHh!!!
This is kinda off point
But does anybody remember in the first quarter when Ginobullshit did a superman-style, frontwards, face plant flop as Afflalo or somebody was just doing a simple drive around him at the top of the 3 point line. I saw that and thought, “oh shit, this joker is going to ruin this game.”
I guess it’s not hard to be Nuggstradamus with that guy.
play Gary Forbes
Yeah I saw that was not surprised
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
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I think that one was a trip
There was a pick set that he didn’t see and he tripped on the foot.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 17, 2010 11:36 AM MST up reply actions
But....
Since it was in the last 2 minutes didn’t they review it?
So here's a question. Did they call that a charge
because Manu hit the floor? Or just because Flopper and Melo had contact?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Manu’s feet were off the floor! He was on his tippy toes! NO WAY THAT CALL SHOULD HAPPEN IN OUR HOUSE ON OUR SUPERSTAR!
Exactly! Join us in the other thread with a Spurs fan who decided it was a good idea to visit.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Hey, I'm glad he showed up
he’s giving everyone an outlet to vent.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 17, 2010 11:37 AM MST up reply actions
To Manu's credit, he forced the refs to make a call
knowing that more often than not the refs reflexively give the Spurs the benefit of the doubt.
Denver first.
Yeah, Jeremy at RMC pointed out the GS call
I don’t know, I can’t accept it as karma. JR Smith is not exactly a guy whose game is based around working the refs. Whereas with fucking Ginobli, that’s most of what his game is about. That’s what makes this so incredibly infuriating, I think. In a just world, fucking Ginobli would have a bad reputation with the refs, and they’d be skeptical about giving him the call every time he flops to the floor. But instead, he gets the benefit of the doubt, even in the closing seconds of a tight game.
by ParkHillNative on Dec 17, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
exactly
this is what I cannot possibly understand about nba refs. If I’m a ref with any pride at all, I would be angry and insulted when I look back at game tape (do they ever do this?) and see that they got duped by one of the ass-clown’s flops. And when the entire free world knows that this is what he does, I would require someone to draw blood from the clown to ever call a foul. What is the mentality of nba refs that they are not only angered by this behavior, but actively condone it every fucking game? It vexes me. I’m very vexed.
by Rainbow skyline on Dec 17, 2010 12:42 PM MST up reply actions
yup
A related question is, Why do the Spurs, of all teams, get such favorable treatment? It’s completely inexplicable.
It’s no mystery why the FLakers get favorable treatment. They drive up the ratings when they’re in the Finals because they attract a lot of viewers who don’t even like basketball much and can’t name more than 2 or 3 other teams, much less 2 or 3 other players besides Bryant. “Oooh, look, there’s Jack Nicholson in the stands,” etc.
But why do the fucking Spurs get this kind of treatment?
by ParkHillNative on Dec 17, 2010 12:49 PM MST up reply actions
I've wondered this too
But I have heard Stern gush over the spurs multiple times-in response to whether the nba has an image problem or something-about being some kind of paragon of teamwork and selflessness. That is all I can think of, is that Stern just personally likes them. Never mind that they are the most flagrant floppers in the league by a wide margin.
by Rainbow skyline on Dec 17, 2010 12:58 PM MST up reply actions
I've never bought in to the conspiracy theories
Don’t know which broadcast you watched last night. I watched altitude because if the TNT game runs long you miss the start of the game. Hastings was talking about their technique in fouling and flopping. He said that it is how they are coached and the way they foul makes it less likely to get called. Interesting stuff.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 17, 2010 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
Pop and Karl
Karl has played against Pop many times, and I believe they are friends. Hasn’t Karl found a way around this? I guess that translates into finding a coaching strategy against the team in the stripes.
By the way, now every time Nene gets the ball near the hoop, I scream (hoping he hears me through my TV), “THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN”.
LOL
You have to do it in your best Bill Walton Voice.
Formerly KS and CS
by ThrowItDownBigManThrowItDown on Dec 17, 2010 4:24 PM MST up reply actions
you're vexed!? i'm verklempt!
gornisht helfn for crying out loud. what would andrew’s nana have to say about a call like that? feinstein let us know what she thinks the referees were thinking will ya?
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Wouldn't have been called on a superstar...
What that sentence should read is, “Woudn’t have been called on a superstar on a BIG MARKET TEAM”. Gee, maybe that’s why Melo wants to leave – if he was on a big market team, it wouldn’t have been a charge. Have they started printing the Favors nugs jersey yet?
I guess these are times I'm happy I'm not such a "homer"
That call in my eyes was called correctly. 95% of the time, during the game, that call gets made; maybe even 98%. I don’t really know what video Andrew was watching because I’ve seen in over and over and there’s no way in hell (as far as I can see) that Melo left the ground before Ginobili got there. I still go back to the fact that if two refs made the call, went to the replay and still let it stand, then it was the correct call to make. I just don’t understand the “swallow your whistles” argument when were talking about a call as clear as that one.
Know when to fold em'.
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by GoldenNugget on Dec 17, 2010 8:13 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I knew it was a charge, so pissed when it happened but I hate bitching about the refs and largely stayed out of it last night. Still, I mean the fact that teams get away with shit worse than that I guess doesn’t mean we should too. What sucks though, is seeing a great game end like that. It probably should have been called – but without Ginobili’s blatant flop it would pass as a no call. The fact it was the Spurs and they always do stupid shit like this with all the flopping just makes it worse.
Still, I just can’t watch that play anymore. Every time I see it I do kind of think “yeah, guess that’s a charge.” It’s also a big time disgraceful flop that won them the game
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by runningdonut on Dec 17, 2010 9:25 PM MST up reply actions
Hey check out this post by Thursty...
Optimism Warrior
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It was an offensive foul on Carmelo. I dont fucking care if Lebron or wade or Kobe get away with it, If it was an offensive it should be called by the refs. PERIOD. Carmelo commited a foul, he got whistled. There’s no rule saying that a ref has to swallow his whistle at the end of games….they just do it to give advantage to superstars. Be happy, a ref made the right call. Maybe the next time you will be glad a ref made the right call instead of cheating in favor of some offensive superstar. Manu made a great defensive play, he didnt cheat, he arrived before Carmelo and planted his feet outside the restricted area. Textbook defense. The fact that he exagerated doesnt take away the fact that IT WAS AN OBVIOUS OFFENSIVE FOUL. No one is arguing that, only you guys.
Stop making excuses, be happy that your team fought back and almost beat the team with the best record in the NBA.
Manu played like crap the whole game, but he is Manu Ginobili. Tell me one other player in the NBA who is capable of making game winning plays on both ends of the court. I know that Carmelo cant. But hey!! He is from Argentina, he cant be a good basketball player right?
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
Check out the above post.....you might have a different opinion.
or this one..(same information)
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2010/12/18/1883592/why-the-ginobili-flop-was-a-block-according-to-nba-rules
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
No no no
do not let facts get in the way of a good troll rant, they are getting desperate brining nationality into it and all. Let them act as if we still care while they make a huge fuss about it and at the same time tell us to stop making a fuss about it.
2010 F1 Champ: Sebastian Vettel-JAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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it was a charge. just check 99% of the posts everywhere
"Rock and Roll angels bring that HardRock Hallelujah"
Oh well if majority rules then it MUSTbe right!!!
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
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