Nets vs. Nuggets recap: The Nuggets giveth but the Nets don't taketh away...
by Andrew Feinstein on Nov 21, 2010 1:54 AM MST
in Denver Nuggets: Game Recaps
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PrintFor the second straight home game against an awful team from the greater New York metropolitan area, the Nuggets desperately tried to lose a game, but weren't able to accomplish doing so.
Carmelo Anthony got another close-up view of a team he might be playing for should he leave Denver in the New Jersey Nets. But while Melo likely wasn't impressed with the lack of talent on the team from Newark, he had to be impressed with their undying effort...especially considering they were playing on the second half of the dreaded Pacific Coast-to-Midwest back-to-back.
As we've come to expect from an Avery Johnson coached team, the Nets never gave up against our Nuggets, despite being down as many as 13 points late in the second half and likely being beyond fatigued. The Nuggets, conversely, almost gave up on themselves thanks to yet another collection of the unnecessarily rushed shots and defensive lapses that seem to have plagued them all week. One supposes you can get away with such play against the Knicks and Nets of the basketball world, but against the likes of the Suns and Trail Blazers it doesn't fly.
As mentioned in my game preview, the upcoming spate of games on the Nuggets schedule bodes well for the boys in powder blue and gold. But if they continue to play without a killer instinct, they'll do nothing but tread water in the standings when they should be mounting a march towards the top of the Western Conference.
The View From the Not-So-Cheap Seats...
...Nets rookie Derrick Favors - the player most mentioned in a possible deal for Carmelo Anthony - is 6'9" tops even though he's listed at 6'10". In fact, he's not much bigger than Anthony in person. That said, Favors is wide, bulky and has great natural basketball instincts. Once Favors puts it together and is properly coached, he could be a beast in the NBA.
...as he had in Dallas, Avery Johnson has an overload of assistant coaches. My seat mate and I were counting how many formerly mediocre NBA players Johnson had assembled as assistants, including Denver Stiffs Hall of Fame nominee Popeye Jones, Sam Mitchell, Doug Overton and Larry Krystkowiak.
...the Nuggets shot out of the cannon early with a 9-2 lead...and then allowed the lead to evaporate just as quickly.
...you have to love Shelden Williams nightly effort, but he's the consummate Stiff. On an easy early dunk attempt, Williams attempted to dump it in and missed the center of the basket entirely.
...from our seats, I couldn't see exactly what happened to Chauncey Billups when he hit the floor hard in the first quarter. I've since read that he has a fractured nose, sprained wrist and a chipped tooth. Ouch!
...J.R. Smith was re-inserted into the lineup during his normal time in the rotation. Smith rewarded Nuggets coach George Karl's use of him with one of his greatest all-time dunks...this one was right on Nets center Brook Lopez and it set the Pepsi Center crowed ablaze.
...just when I thought we were seeing former Nugget Joey Graham's return to Denver, I quickly realized that it was his identical twin brother Stephen Graham.
...it was fun watching former Nugget backup Stiff center Johan Petro going head-to-head with current Nugget backup Stiff center Melvin Ely. Ely thoroughly out-played Petro with nine points (on 4-4 shooting) and six rebounds to Petro's four points (on 2-6 shooting) and three boards.
...Melo had a solid first half with 10 points, four rebounds and five assists.
...you had to love the Nuggets' ball movement at the end of third quarter that set up Arron Afflalo for a set shot three-pointer in the corner.
...Ty Lawson had a phenomenal spin move right on Favors for a drop shot, and followed that up with another solid night of play. As we've become accustomed to, Lawson was a key catalyst for this victory.
...it was disappointing seeing the Nuggets 13-point lead dwindle to four...and then two...towards the end of the fourth quarter. You could tell by the Nuggets body language throughout the game that they weren't going to cover the spread.
...Travis Outlaw's blocked shot on Melo at the game's end shouldn't have been a goaltending call at all. NBA refs too often associate blocked shots near the basket as goaltending, when they should stick with the rule book: if the ball if going up, it can be blocked.
...the highlight of my night was when I checked NBA scores from around the league and saw that the Heat lost to the Grizzlies.
...I've never seen Nets backup point guard Jordan Farmar make a big shot and tonight was no exception.
...the Nuggets are lucky that Lopez missed that last-attempted chip shot. This game should have been finished out in overtime.
Non-Stiff of the Night
-Nene: The Nuggets got their center going early and Nene finished with the most complete game among his teammates. Finishing with 22 points, eight rebounds and 15 free throw attempts, Nene made the Nets interior defense work overtime throughout the game.
Stiff of the Night
-Devin Harris: The Nets starting point guard simply went through the motions for much the game, finishing with a mere 12 points on 3-9 shooting and just four assists.
Parting Shot
Favors looked good and has big upside, but he didn't seem to have the explosiveness of a younger Antonio McDyess nor does he have the height of Kevin Garnett (two formerly "raw" power forwards whom Favors is most often compared to). Should Favors end up being a Nugget in exchange for Anthony, the Nuggets better get someone else of substance in the deal.
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good game.
I think even though the Nugs should have put their collective foot down far earlier, they finished well. I would have liked to see JR get more run, hopefully tonight shows Karl that he is under control and playing smart
Swats.
by Colin Neilson on Nov 21, 2010 2:21 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Not surprising
First of all incredibly happy we got the win. And for us to be complaining about any win right now is kind of absurd.
That being said, this game went pretty much how I expected it to. JR getting minutes again was a surprise, but his mostly solid performance was not. JR does what he does and on the court he has been pretty good this year. I really hope his head and his practice habits don’t get in the way because I really like how he has played.
Nene was super aggressive this game, but totally invisible when it really mattered. I said I wouldn’t complain about the win, but I mean giving New Jersey the ball with a chance to take the last shot and win or tie is ridiculous. Especially since we didn’t pass the ball down the stretch, we ended up with a horrible Melo iso and a bad jump shot, and New Jersey played a late west coast game last night. And then Brook Lopez whiffs on a wide open layup. The Nuggets were just supposed to win tonight and I’m glad they did.
Win on the road against a Golden State team with a better record and I’ll be impressed. Until then, I still fear we are going through the motions. Tonight really showed why play like that doesn’t win many games on the road. If this were a road game, Melo probably gets called for a charge on that Outlaw flop and we turn it over. Then, he probably fouls Brook Lopez who makes that wide open layup and we lose a heartbreaker by 1 point. Great teams don’t let it come down to that, they just come out like a better team and act like it over the whole game.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
The most surprising thing about JR from tonight
Looking at Chauncey for the ok to shoot a 3, which he made, but that just goes to show how short of a leash he is really on.
Maybe I do have the right.... wait, what's that stuff??? - Homer Simpson
Free JR!!!!!!!!
by Army of Nugs on Nov 21, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions
Great write up ANDREW!!!!!!
“For the second straight home game against an awful team from the greater New York metropolitan area, the Nuggets desperately tried to lose a game but weren’t able to accomplish doing so.”
You sound like a real fan!
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 3:04 AM MST via mobile reply actions
I don’t mind Andrew’s snark. We do play down to our opponents and have shown serious deficits in the closing department. We should have crushed both the Nets and Nicks, but we squeek by in skanky fashion. It’s a miracle the game didn’t go to overtime last night. Against the Nets, that unacceptable, and warrants some sarcasm at the very least!
If he gets to be sarcastic
Then so do I, right? Besides, I was ACTUALLY trying to be funny…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 9:51 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I think you've officially replaced jpage
As Andrew’s number one heckler. Congrats.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 11:27 AM MST up reply actions
I'm honored
But I hope he doesn’t take that news badly…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 11:34 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know about anyone else
But I think Karl’s rotations were good today. He also didn’t seem as inept as he did in the Portland/Phoenix game. I would still prefer a little more JR, but it was better coaching today. Need to give him credit when it is due. Hopefully he carries this to the road as well.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Nov 21, 2010 5:02 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Slightly better...
Good to see JR get some burn, and use his time wisely. He looked great; I would like to see more of those morale robbing dunks on opposing centers. Hopefully Karl and JR will bury the hatchet and he’ll continue to get play time.
Karl still played Chauncey and Ty simultaneously. I’m not sold on that when we have so many excellent shooting guards. Chauncey did seem to regain some court vision thats been lacking lately, but he still led the team in turnovers. JR or Forbes should be playing the 2 spot while Ty is on the floor. And Ty seems to be steadily climbing out of his recent slump.
Karl should have sent Nene in sooner in the fourth, or perhaps call a time-out before they cut the deficit to two points. He did use Ely, who played well and seems to have higher bball IQ than Williams. (We could have used him against Portland; Williams only had 2pts, 2 boards in almost 20 minutes, while Ely only played one minute.) He deserves more burn while Bird and Martin are out.
He still had that detached, slumped, hands on forehead posture late in the game. He looked tired, old, feeble, and disengaged. That just drives me nuts. Contrasting his demeanor with Avery was like night and day.
I forgot
He did play Ely.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 11:29 AM MST up reply actions
Just because he played JR I'm guessing?
He still didn’t play Shelden as many minutes as he should, and we’ve seen the same sort of lineups we have all year.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 11:28 AM MST up reply actions
Not as much Lawson/Billups either
He limited those two being on the court at the same time to <5 min.
I think the Ely instead of Williams sub was a good one.
Nene could have returned early, but the closing lineup was better than that Lawson/Billups crap that he always struts out in the last 2 minutes of a game.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Nov 21, 2010 1:53 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Also hope Chaucey is ok
That fall looked nasty. The sprained right wrist won’t help Chauncey get out of that slump either.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Nov 21, 2010 5:03 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Chauncey looked real good yesterday.
Besides that fall, he was passing really well (and would of had 10+ assists if it weren’t for fouls on the shots he assisted on) & he didn’t take many/bad shots.
Scouting Favors
1. The guy is a good offensive rebounder
2. He doesn’t do well with other aspects of the game like blocks or steals
3. Athletic with several dunks (in fact all his baskets might have been dunks)
4. Gets to the free throw line
Maybe, maybe with luck and good teaching becomes a star but will never be on Carmelo’s level.
Harris played well and reminds me a bit of Chauncey, (gets fouls when his team needs them). Also quicker and a better defender than I remember. All respect to what Chauncey has done but I would love to have Harris on this team right now, especially for guarding PG’s every night like Rondo, Rose, Paul and Deron.
I am tired of watching disjointed basketball with minimal effort. Make a trade. Where is Bzdelik when you need him.
It's the Big Man rookie curse....
Favors has had a few foul prone games. Whether it’s him, the refs, or a combo, that is likely affecting his defensive play/ability.
Not an encouraging win
blew another sizable 4th quarter lead. this time against a bad team on the road in the 2nd game of a back to back. got beat on the glass again.
I don’t get it. Nene played great. Lawson played great. Ely played great. JR played well. Melo played well. Chauncey improved. With these individual performances, why is the team as a whole not playing better? Why are games like this still coming down to the buzzer?
Karl
His “losing on the road is fine” approach is finally catching up to him. I think the players, like Karl, now feel that the game of basketball amounts to more than just W’s and L’s. It doesn’t. Seems like they’re starting to feel that as long as they play well during some stretches of the game, then they’re satisfied, regardless of whether the win or lose in the end.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
That's the CRAZIEST
Thing I’ve EVER heard. You think these guys are satisfied with losing? Boy oh boy, your analysis is overwhelming…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 11:36 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
And I quote
This is a quote straight from George Karl ago following a typical Nuggets road trip, where the Nuggets lost a lot.
“Any time you can go on teh road and win half of your games – that’s a great success.”
How else am I supposed to interpret that direct quote from Karl? Yes of course it’s hard to win on the road in the NBA but when you are setting the bar so low for yourself it’s no surprise you end up mired in mediocrity. And yes, I believe George Karl has been satisfied with a lot of these road losses with that lowly .500 goal in mind
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 11:59 AM MST up reply actions
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy!
Every season GK has said that winning half of our road games is acceptable and what do we do? We generally win about half of our road games. I haven’t done the necessary research, but I bet I’d be very hard pressed to find a championship coach out there (in any sport) that has been as lackadaisical about wins and losses as GK has been here. I love the guy and respect what he’s been through but I can’t help but put blame on a guy that starts a 6 game road trip by suggesting it’s perfectly okay to only win 3. It’s mind-boggling.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:30 PM MST up reply actions
Come on RD...
Are you seriously going to interperate that as “it’s cool when we lose games. HALF our games on the road.”
don’t you possibly think he means winning on the road is hard? And that at the END OF THE SEASON when you look back and you go, “Wow, we won 80% of our home games and 50% of our road games” means you did well? I’d love for you to find me some stats on road win %’s in the NBA. who has the highest? And who has the lowest.
Man, people are real downers around here.
69 games left. 69!!
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 12:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
No need for interpretation!
That is EXACTLY what he has said! Personally, I want a coach that could care less where we play and when. I want a coach that believes the best team on the court wins and that team is us. Team goals are important and no Championship team should have “.500” written on any white board, anywhere, anytime. NEVER!
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
What I'm saying, Ma'am
Is that when you look back on a season, a winning season, and look at the numbers and see that you won half your road games then why is it a bad thing to see the positive of that?
You can’t possibly think that Karl likes and encourages losing on the road?
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 12:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure what my gender has to do with anything but,
I don’t think he actually encourages losing on the road in the sense that you are asking. I think he does so by setting the bar so low. IF we win 80% of our home games and 50% of our road games, we’ll win 53 games and be a 4,5,6,7 or 8 seed, right? I don’t think our Nuggets can go to the WCF with that seeding but I may be wrong. Not being facetious at all, just saying.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
(I think he's just running with the confusion from yesterday. I think it's just a joke)
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Indeed it was
Sorry big Mickey…just kiddin around.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 2:04 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
What's your analysis?
Between typing in all caps and criticizing whatever Andrew and I say, you havn’t exactly offered up a whole lot to think about.
Last night I was watching NFL Network and there was a commercial that came on advertizing a 5 video set about how to be a successful coach. It featured coaching secrets from guys like Rex Ryan, Mike Ditka, Bill Walsh (maybe?) and then a list appeared across the screen about topics that these coaches would help you in if you purchased the video. Some of those topics included:
How to motivate
Attention to detail
How to handle adversity
How to strive for perfection
Etc.
I then thought to myslef as I watched this list unfold before my eyes, “George Karl definitely needs to buy this video.”
Anyways, point being, coaching is 95% human-to-human socail interaction. It’s largely about all the things I just listed above. Sitting on the bench with your head in your hands, sulking around, failing to have your team prepared for things like adversity and closure are prime examples of bad coaching. And the worst part of all is that those things eventually rub off on your players, and show on the floor. So you can think all you want that our reoccuring idiosyncrasies are simply “bad luck” or “chance,” but I’ll take the Attention to Detail road anyday of the week.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:37 PM MST up reply actions
You're right GN
From now on I’ll never use all caps and won’t criticize what you and Andrew have to say…
Are you that big of an egoist that you think that by contradicted and challenging you and Andrew and whover else provides nothing for you to think about?
Come on GN, you better than that.
Food for thought for you: try reading the parts of my comments that are actually making points about Karl, the team and the way we as fans are reacting to the situation.
Sorry, I’m not a numbers dude. I actually just like the Nuggets and want them to win but I also know that typing a comment on the Internet isn’t going to change a fucking thing with the nuggets and how they’re run. I thought this was a nuggets fan-site, not a nuggets are awful and I know how to fix them site…
I had to resist the urge to go all-caps…But sometimes it helps with EMPHASIS.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 12:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Thank you for that post
It actually made me think, unlike “That is the CRAZIEST thing that I’ve EVER heard.”
And I too am a fan of the Nugget believe it or not. Just because I don’t come on here and type “Whooooooo! Go Nuggets! Yeaaaaaahhh.” doesn’t mean I don’t love this team as much as you do and want them to succeed. I can say “whooooooo” by my self in front of my TV. But I can’t say all the other stuff of else I’d be looked upon as more crazy than I already am.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
Good poinys
But have you seen me saying those things either?
I think this part of the thread is dying a slow death and that’s mostly my fault…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 1:21 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
skithebert.... Excellent analysis of the game.
If i recall, that is the fourth game in a row, they have faded down the stretch.
At least we got the win... obviously it wasn't too pretty, but I'll take it...
I was very happy to see our next game is on Monday against a Warriors team coming off a back to back against LA… we better win, and lets not make it harder then it should be… also without Lee, GSW should be an easy game… it’s crucial we win and don’t let anymore easy games (like our next 6 games) slip away…
Melo WAS impressed with the Nets and said so in this interview with Nets Beat Writer Al ZZone:
Melo for Favors IS happening after Dec 15, and last night’s strong effort against strong performances from Melo and Nene kept Nuggets in game:
Brook is recovering from MONO, people forget. It is known to take 1 year.
He is about 20 underweight and should be 30 lbs heavier at some point. If Brook was himself, he would have scored 29 (normally gets 10 FTs) and 14 boards.
Avery didn’t have a chance to get Brook in a body training program, the way he did for Harris, over the summer.
It should be very easy for Melo to imagine being the SF on this Nets team and will Lopez filling out, should be an elite team next year.
The fact is that Nets have been coming back against every team, other than 2 losses to Heat and 1 of 2 losses to Magic.
Nets had chance to beat Utah on road (but a 5 minute scoring slump at end), Magic at buzzer and in general to win all but 3 of 13 games they have played (and they are now a tougher defensive team, due to Avery, than when they had those losses). They did play a terrible offensive game against SAC, which can mostly be blamed on Lopez’ lack of conditioning.
Three of their better players who can provide a spark, TWill, Murphy and DJames have been in the Doghouse, as part of Avery’s re-training efforts. That should be ending soon.
Bottom line is that I can very easily see Melo willing to sign with Nets, now that Brooklyn is on track to open ahead of schedule in 1 2/3 years (steel going up before Christmas) and in the meantime The Rock is one of the nicer arenas in country, about 8 miles from MSG.
In another interview with ZZone, Melo specifically cited Russian owner Prokhorov, but he didn’t know Brooklyn was ahead of schedule.
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_sports/basketball/nets/112010_Carmelo_Anthony_talks_Nets_says_options_are_open.html
Don’t forget Brook is only 22 1/2 years old and has never missed a NBA game in his 2+ years.
When he recovers fully and is gets conditioning, I can see him being a much more important teammate for Melo than an aging Amare would be. (whose knee could wear out at any time the way he is being overworked by D’Antoni).
I have to admit though that Nets fans are frustrated with Brook lately and have little patience.
The large majority of Nets fans are also unwilling to give up Derrick Favors for Melo, and last nights’ showing by 18 year old Favors didn’t help them.
Clearly, if Ujiri wanted to be sure that Favors wasn’t going to turn out to be a bust, he got that answer last night. To pass up on getting someone who can be a star in this league for another 14 years is hard to do.
If the Melo situation drags on much beyond Dec. 15, I can very easily see GM Billy King withdrawing Favors, and just let Avery use Favors as the Nets starting PF into the next decade.
Why give you Melo without Lopez and Favors in return?
People expect us to give Melo away for a bunch of nothings.
Denver first.
You guy will NEVER
And I REPEAT, NEVER, get Melo….I sorry to have to let you GM Billy King know that…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 9:57 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
ACTUALLY and ODDLY
It’s Melos choice…that’s what I’m telling you. And if it’s Melo’s choice then I think there are other places he’d rather go.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 11:32 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Jerry, you enthusiasm and optimism for your team is admirable.
I would advise not to to read too much into anything Melo says or doesn’t say currently. You’ll drive yourself insane. As a resident Thugget Loyalist and Optimism Warrior at DS, I too, spent weeks dissecting everything Melo says. He’s not a fool. He’s only going to say positive leaning things towards every city and every team that has interest in him.
He’s leaving his options open.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
+1
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 10:26 AM MST up reply actions
Agreed
I do think when push comes to shove, the Nets will have the best offer for the Nuggets.
Favors+ 2 #1’s and a big expiring deal is a tough offer to match.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
The best offer out of bad options
does not a good offer make…not compared to what Melo brings.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
And what fits with the other Nuggets...
(man I hate hitting post key too soon)
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Ultimately,
Melo (if he truly does want out) has put himself in a rough position because nobody that he wants to (allegedly) play for can make a fair trade without mortgaging their future and Melo is smart enough to know that he doesn’t want to be the best player on a rebuilding team. He (allegedly) wants to win now.
P.S. If any single one of the 27 Nets fans in existence doesn’t think that they should give up Favors for Melo, they are lunatics. Likewise, if any of our army of fans believes that a Favors for Melo trade is a good one, check the stats, check the film and check your medication. Favors may have a good career. Melo is a future Hall of Famer and was one the second he stepped into powder blue.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 10:49 AM MST up reply actions
If your viewpoint is correct
Melo should just wait out the year and sign as a FA, so he doesn’t damage his future team’s roster.
I guess my biggest question is to all the people who say these offers suck. There’s a reason they’re not great, it’s because Melo hasn’t signed an extension. I’m wondering if people are just keen on keeping Melo out of spite if we can’t get a sure-fire superstar in return? That seems like cutting off the nose to spite the face. If Melo’s determined to leave and we still suck come the trade deadline, doesn’t it make complete sense to move him for whatever is available? Even if it is the “best offer out of bad options” as SDcat referred to them as?
Keeping Melo out of spite? Spite who? The other team? The Nuggets?
We gain nothing by trading Melo before the trade deadline in February.
By that time, we’ll know what the team really is because we’ll have had Birdman and maybe Kenyon back.
Melo’s value is not going to decline based on his current performance(barring injury). Melo is nothing if not consistent. He rarely goes through major slumps…Maybe a game or three of struggles, but he quickly turns it around.
To me, moving him now, would be spiting the Nuggets and giving other teams a gift basket with a bow.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
That"(barring injury)" thing makes this high stakes poker for Melo
he’s a torn ankle ligament or Achilles tendon away from having the extension pulled off the table.
Denver first.
Yes
Exactly. If we are still somewhere around .500 by Dec. 15, then I don’t exactly understand what we’d be waiting for at that point in time.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 11:39 AM MST up reply actions
We'd be still blaming the shcedule and injuries
While trying to conveniently ignore contending teams battle the same schedule and same injuries who keep chugging along and winning
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
No
We should be waiting for fair trade value. I have not yet seen a trade (except miniK-Mart and Scoula) that impresses me in the slightest.
If we are .500 by Dec. 15th, I would suggest that we have bigger issues than where to ship our best player.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:24 PM MST up reply actions
So you're saying
If we don’t get a knock out trade that comes our way, we shouldn’t trade Melo even if we’re .500 by Dec. 15?
Let me ask you one thing. What in your mind makes you think Melo would EVER want to stick around for three more years, after everything that’s gone on in the last few months, if we don’t even go far above .500 this year?
The only way in Hell Melo would even think about sticking around is if we had a killer year, and up till now that doesn’t appear to be the case.
Maybe things will change down the road, but unless we start playing like a different team, Melo will be gone by March, I gurantee you that.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Respectfully,
Can I wait until Dec 15th to answer? Because I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance that we will be .500 at that point. Maybe I’m too optimistic, but what about this team makes you think that we are worse than the last 7 Nuggets rosters? I agree that there is a cloud hanging and that we should be crushing teams like the Knicks and the Nets but I really can’t look at our upcoming schedule and find a real and logical way that we go .500.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:48 PM MST up reply actions
Why do we keep talking about Dec 15? That's not a trade deadline
right? Isn’t February the better evaluation point?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
The 15th is when FA’s picked up or traded for over the summer can be traded. I think.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
right...but I'm saying that
why would that be our target evaluation point. We won’t know what this team is until Birdman plays regularly and hopefully Kmart…..that’s why February seems more reasonable upon which to make an evaluation. Also, as deadlines approach(at least in baseball) teams are willing to part with far more.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Agreed 100%
And I didn’t mean to suggest you didn’t know the significance of Dec. 15th. I chose that benchmark because it’s what GN was using and because – looking at the schedule – there is absolutely NO WAY we will be .500 at that point making GN’s question moot. I do think that we will see some interesting trades between the 15th and the trade deadline and I think the Nuggets better be involved sans Melo if they intend to retain him.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:16 PM MST up reply actions
Because if we're still roughly about .500 by then
It’s going to be VERY clear what type of a team this is. That’s more than enough sample time to evaluate who we are and how much of a chance we have at even making the postseason. Nobody’s saying that’s the deadline, we’re just saying things should really start to heat up if we’re not playing well at that point in time.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
Rather than see things my way....
It’s easier to see things your way, tsk tsk.
The caveat I’d add is that without K-Mart/Birdman the team doesn’t play as well on defense, that’s pretty obvious.
The longer we wait
The higher the Nets 2011 #1 pick lotto chances will be
Hmmm
you’re in for a rude awakening. It seems like you don’t quite understand the situation so i’ll break it down for you:
Melo hasn’t, and won’t, sign the extension and you basically have 2 options.
1. Turn yourselves into the Cavs and Raptors, hope and pray you can sign him this summer, which you won’t, and then lose him for nothing.
2. You can trade him to one of the teams he would be open to signing an extension with, get as many assets as you can in return (Favors, picks, expirings) and start the rebuild process.
If you think option 1 is the way to go, prepare yourself for a long and tortured rebuilding process.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
I understand it perfectly, thank you.
If and when we lose Melo, we’ll also be losing a big ($40m) chunk of salaries and some need not be replaced at a similar level. Even if the new CBA allows for the same level of max contracts as the status quo, $40 mil will flat out PURCHASE two elite players. I’m okay with that.
It’s just like any other balance sheet for any business: if you allow your assets to fully depreciate, you can replace them for brand spanking new ones at no discernible hit to your bottom line.
Hmmmm.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
So with that logic
you assume the Nuggets will be able to bring in TWO elite players.
Who exactly do you plan on targeting that will be available within the next couple of years? Paul? Howard? Deron? None of which are going to Denver.
Losing Melo for essentially cap space is not the right strategy to go about rebuilding. If that’s what you hope happens, all I can say is good luck.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Cap space is at its most valuable in a strike/lock-out scenario
Is it the very best option for us? Of course not. Keeping Melo would be #1. Losing Melo for equal value #2. Freeing up money #3. Trading Melo for a bag of chips isn’t on the list. Favors = Fritos.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
bq. Favors=Fritos
Bye bye credibility.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:44 PM MST up reply actions
Did you watch the game last night? Favors looks like a nice up and comer, but Favors for Melo is the most ridiculous, lopsided, “bag-o-chips” trade I’ve ever seen. To be honest, I don’t even like Lopez+Favors for Melo because they are too raw and unproven. Melo was a +20 ppg ROOKIE and never needed to come off the bench for educational or developmental purposes. Melo is SIGNIFICANTLY better 7 years later. If you understate Melo’s value than, yes, every trade is somewhat viable. If you think Melo is on the precipice of being Kobe-esque (as I do,) most trades look like a bag of chips.
If you don’t think my comments have credibility, just “Z” right past them and move on with your life, okay?
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 12:53 PM MST up reply actions
You're missing the point
No shit, Favors is not even in Melo’s breath, and likely any trade for him is not going to be fair. But your talking about getting a really promising young rookie, picks and other young talent over nothing if you just let him walk, which would be guaranteed if we had a bad season.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 1:00 PM MST up reply actions
As i have written before, I don’t believe that letting Melo walk is as devastating and awful as getting a trade package that is restrictive and only full of potential. It is kind of like the Boston debate: Did KG and Allen coming push them over the top or was it actually the emergence of Rondo. I believe the former and I’m guessing you believe the latter. I believe that we will need to bring in veterans or at least a couple 4th or 5th year players that are court proven and the only way to do that is to have cap-space at the right time. You want a return on our Melo investment should he leave. I can respectfully disagree with you on this.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
Are you kidding?
So let me get this straight..
You would rather let Melo walk for NOTHING instead of getting back a promising 19 year old rookie, a HUGE expiring contract and multiple first round picks all because you feel the Nuggets should puff out their chest and refuse to deal him?
Please, just think about that for a moment before you respond.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Has it been long enough, yet?
May I please, please respond?
Oden was a promising 19 year old rookie too.
Bird in the hand (Melo) who may or may not be leaving (the foregone conclusion stuff ignores the deafening absence of evidence) is better than the two in the bush. IMO. It’s not a popular opinion or theory even on this site, but I believe that Melo will stay if we make a big move for the future. “Breaking up” with Melo just because we are afraid he might “break up” with us didn’t make sense in 7th grade and doesn’t make sense now. How does anyone know that Melo and Josh haven’t been in constant talks about what he would want in order to stay and that Josh is telling him that he will do what he can come Dec. 15th? It may be far-fetched but I’ll choose to believe it until something else actually happens. Right now it is all rumor and conjecture.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:36 PM MST up reply actions
So if/when the Nuggets come to
the realization that Melo is leaving, you recommend holding on to him and letting his contract expire?
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
No
I am simply saying that, of the two gambles, I choose the one that has the best chance of retaining Melo.
What if LA traded Kobe instead of making moves that would make him seem stupid not to stay? It’s hard to imagine that ANYONE they would have traded for or any of the picks they would have received would have been worth it.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:52 PM MST up reply actions
Big Mickey D
Your viewpoint on this is superb. I’ve seen Cap Space as a big potential and yes, given the “state of things” and a new CBA, it may be an excellent time to be a buyer.
I absolutely agree with your list.
That Boston example made no sense
Rondo wasn’t near the player he is today when they won the title in 08. Everyobdy knows it was KG and Allen.
The problem with the FA thing is that unless we sign some really big names it won’t matter because Melo has the option to leave, and he likely will. The only way the FA strategy works is if Melo is already comitted to stayin in Denver.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 1:10 PM MST up reply actions
Ok
Not a perfect example but thanks for being so nice about it.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
That's it right there
If Melo doesn’t sign the extension prior to the trade deadline, he’s gone. FO can’t pull the trigger on deals contingent on Melo staying without his commitment, yet have no hope of keeping him without making big moves. I sure as hell hope Melo is talking to Ujiri and Josh.
Whoa NETSKING
I wouldn’t get into this shit with Big Mickey D. She’s a very intelligent woman.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 12:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You forgot option number 3
Melo is NEVER going to bring your city/state a title. Not with losing Favors. You guys will only get another 20 wins in the season with him. I mean I know Avery Johnson has won a title and all…wait….
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 11:44 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
Plus,
The only leverage the Nuggets really have is to say to Melo: “We understand that you don’t want to play here next year but there is only one place in the country that you’ll play for $65m – here. We know you’d love a sign and trade to the exact place you want to go, but they have nothing to offer us. You want the money, you gotta stay here. You want the bright lights, you’re taking your chances that the new CBA will make you worth about HALF what we’ve offered. It’s up to you son. We love you and wanna pay you but we’re not going to deal with teams that have nothing to offer us.”
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 11:49 AM MST up reply actions
He'd happily walk
He’s already said it before. That strategy won’t work, sorry.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:45 PM MST up reply actions
Listen, red-headed stepchild to New York
How many titles has Melo won being surrounded by really good players? None.
How many REALLY GOOD players do you have? 2-3? And in order to get him you’d have to trade AT LEAST one. Do the math.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 12:36 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Hmm since were now going to exchange insults
I guess your upset that in 2 years when your team is sitting at the bottom of the western conference with no real future in sight, we’ll be playing IN NYC in the worlds most expensive arena for the league’s richest owner.
Red-headed stepchild? Oh no!
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
See you in 2 years then
Go back to being horrible and trying to feel good about.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to live in the moment.
Two years down the road huh? Hasn’t it been that way in New Jersey for about 8 years now?
I wouldn’t be so confident if I were you. The Knicks have a lot of money and the greatest arena in the NBA, but it hasn’t guaranteed them success. It won’t for you either. It takes more than that.
Stop trying to act like you’re not a fan of one of the worst teams in the NBA. You wanna brag about 2 years from now come back IN TWO YEARS
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:09 PM MST up reply actions
Ignorance
No, it hasn’t been “in 2 years” for the past 8 years in NJ.
Construction has been going on for sometime now and there are zero obstacles that will prevent the arena from being ready for the 2012-2013 season.
The Knicks have one of the worst owners in sports, their arena has nothing to do with there failures on the court.
The Nets are historically a bad franchise, we know that, but things are looking WAY up and in your case, things are look way down. Sorry, that’s reality.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Hold on to that hope, hold onto it tight
It’s all you have left.
Like I said dude, go fly and kite and get back me in two years when you guys kick ass and we’re terrible. Until then don’t try to act like WE are the ones sitting at the bottom of the standings in the NBA.
Two years dude
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
Not really
We’ve been competitive all year and can easily make the playoffs in the weak east.
It’s not false hope either, as much as you want to twist it.
I don’t come here to troll since most of your fans are respectful and provide good conversation..but since your clearly bitter and wanted to start trash talking…
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Keep it respectful
If YOU trash -talk, you are unwelcome and a troll. If runningdonut is bitter and trash talks, he’s a valued contributor to the site and ONE OF US, so he gets a pass. Your welcome is wearing out quickly.
P.S. The Nets suck and have sucked for years and years. The only reason you are trolling on OUR site is the hope that you can pick our pocket and get a real player to play with all of your bums.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
Years and years huh?
Guess the NBA finals in 2002 and 2003 don’t count.
I only trash talk back when someone else starts it.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Me too
And you started it in this case.
Only thing I’m bitter about is beating the Nets by only 4 points.
The hope that you have that the Nets are the greatest franchise ever in two years is as ridiculous as your assumption that the Nuggets will remain basement dwellers for 2 years.
I’m really not concerned with any of that. We have a good team now and I’m worried about cheering them on and getting wins.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
I was responding to the
red-headed step child comment.
And not once did I say the Nets will become the greatest franchise ever. All I said was that we are on the rise and the future is bright.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
It's the 2010-2011 season
Should I have written “a few” or “a bushel?” What constitutes years and years? 10? 20? My team has been in the hunt for the last seven years in – what I consider to be – a tougher conference. I really could care less about the Nets ESPECIALLY because I don’t believe there will be a trade for Melo that involves the Nets.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 1:42 PM MST up reply actions
My team has been
“in the hunt” for the better part of the last 10 years.
And we made it to finals, twice.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
Your team
has won more than 50 games in a season ONCE since 1977.
Once.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions
"In the hunt"
Was the argument and I win. Both of us come up short if we are sorting through our trophy cases…
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Look man
This post is not intended to be insulting. But here’s how I see it.
We don’t need a Nets history lesson from you and the fact you keep bringing it up, along with all the “in 2 years” stuff says a lot about how out of touch you are with the current reality of your situation.
You come on to a Nuggets site, AFTER A LOSS, to seemingly rub it in our faces that Melo hasn’t signed an extension and our future is so terrible if we don’t trade him to you. Do you realize how lame that is? How about showing some pride in your team for what they are now?
If I were a Nets fan, I imagine I’d be weary of trading away Favors cause I think the dude is the real deal. For 19 years old he has great instinct and he just seems like he’s got the attitude to work hard and become a great pro in this league. That’s why, as Nuggets fan, if we end up having to trade Melo, I want us to get Favors in return. I’m just sold on the guy, I really like him. I’m willing to wait and lose some games to see this guy grow.
You don’t have to berate Nuggets fans for the hope that we can keep Melo and do something great this year. If you think that hope is absurd, keep it to yourself and your Nets buddies. At least Jerry, the other diehard who comes on here about Melo trades doesn’t try to deny us that.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 3:03 PM MST up reply actions
You have it all wrong
First of all, I post on your site all the time, and you can go through my history if you’d like and you’ll see that I never say anything negative about your franchise and I come here to simply discuss the Melo situation.
And I’m far from out of touch on our current situation. I’d be willing to bet you know little to nothing about our “situation” but if you’d like to discuss it further I’d be happy to.
And AGAIN, the only reason I started insulting your team was when Raugesen responded to my post calling us the red-headed step child..completely uncalled for.
Section 129 2010-2011 @ the ROCK
With all due respect,
All of the decorum (or lack of) that you are discussing is out-of-bounds when you are a guest on another team’s site. runningdonut is absolutely correct in saying that it seems like you guys are rubbing our noses in the fact that Melo will likely be playing for somebody else next year. I think that we have been very cordial and been fairly nice to even discuss it with you and/or Jerry. If you haven’t noticed, it is a very painful and polarizing subject EVEN AMONG STRICTLY NUGGETS FANS and your place in this discussion is absolutely unnecessary and in poor taste. Let us have our hope, our in-fighting and let us lick our wounds when this is all said and done.
As for Jerry, I think his behavior is unthinkable. He is doing what I have been worried about for months now: he is hoping that Melo reads some of this and he is recruiting him. Read his posts very carefully. Look at the time-stamps. They almost never are a reaction to somebody else’s comments or at least not in the beginning.
So, with all due respect, I say GO AWAY. The game is over. We beat you. Favors is a good player. If you get Melo, I sincerely hope we get Favors and anything else of value we can snatch up. Good luck and goodbye.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
by Big Mickey D on Nov 21, 2010 3:37 PM MST up reply actions
The situation
Last year, the Nets were the worst teams in the NBA. A total joke. For a while they contended for one of the worst teams of all time. This year (it’s early), they are kind of improved, but still one of the worst. And until they start winning games that stigma won’t go away
So it’s not surprising that after a predictable loss, you’d feel the need to let us know that a Melo trade to NJ is still inevitable despite the fact you have almost three times as many losses as you do wins.
That’s why you’re alone on this one buddy. The rest of the Nets fans are back home supporting the team, getting excited about Favors and realizing it takes time to change the culture and build something special. But you want instant gratification and a fast forward 2 years ahead. That’s all I was saying. Losing a game and then trying to get into trash talk about a hypothetical future 2 years down the line is lame.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
When did we get so sensitive?
Dude, I know this is going to sound bad, but the red-headed stepchild comment wasn’teant as am insult, and I’m sorry you took it that way. I actually was stating a fact.
Proof? Isn’t your team moving to BROOKLYN? am I wrong? Isn’t Brooklyn in New York?
It seems as though you there in New Jersey should be more concerned about losing your ENTIRE organization to New York rather than desperately seeking melo.
Hoboken is nice though. Great views of New York…
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 3:52 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Awesome RD!
And I’m actually a red-head. And a step-child.
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 1:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
MSG is the greatest arena in the league? Not so sure that's true anymore
It’s famous, but not in good shape anymore. It’s old. Maybe by 2012 that boast will be true…but not now.
Pepsi Center, Staples Center, and The Garden in Boston would like a word.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I was talking about the prestige
I’ve been to MSG several times for games and while I agree with you – there’s a reason most NBA players say it’s a special place to play. Melo, Lebron James, Kobe and all of those guys are constantly bringing it up for whatever reason. George Karl also said it’s his favorite road arena to coach in.
I’ve been to MSG for games a couple times. I don’t really get it either. But I’ve been to the TD Garden too and MSG is better than that place.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:27 PM MST up reply actions
So, is that 4 or 5 games in a row with a 4th quarter collapse?
At least we still managed to win two of those games.
It’s really pretty pathetic.
Denver first.
missed the game
but based on the box score, GK went with a 10 man rotation. awesome.
1 more thing;
BJ FUCKIN PENN!!!! JUST SCRAP
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
firegeorgekarl.com
FREE JR SWISH!!!!!
huh? re your one more thing?
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt the Nuggets tried to lose that game
Those kinds of efforts against anybody not named the Clippers, Nets and Knicks will next time result in a loss. Get it together Nuggets!
On Favors: Dude is a B.E.A.S.T end of story. I pretty much stopped reading after “he didn’t seem to have the explosiveness of a younger,” because putting anybody other than the name “Blake Griffin” following those words, and that statement is totally false. Favors is doing what Avery asks of him in order to maintain playing time right now. Put him on a team like the Knicks where he has the freedom to roam, and he’d be all over the place. Favors looked phenomenal and completely under control for being the youngest player in the NBA. I’d take him over Brook Lopez anyday of the week.
Speaking of Blake Griffin, oh my Lord. 44 points, 15 boards, 7 assists and three of the dopest dunks I have EVER seen last night, and that’s all I need to believe this kid is on his way to greatness. Unbelievalbe. So much for John Wall haveing RoY locked up.
Anyways, back to the game. Whatever, it was a “w” so I’ll take it. Our team is kind of like a box of chocolates these days, and I’m just tuned in to watch.
Ty is FINALLY starting to express himself on the floor and looks great in doing so. I hope he continues to build confidence, because he’s showing flashes of CP3 in his game.
JR is still one of my favorite players to watch in the entire NBA. Glad George pulled his head out of his ass for 48 minutes.
Chauncey is starting to look better too.
Shelden still needs more time.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
GREAT WRITE UP GN!!!
Good to hear your thoughts hopefully the guys will make the proper adjustments next game!!!
Grrrrrrrreat write up!!!
by Raugesen on Nov 21, 2010 11:47 AM MST via mobile up reply actions
So you want to be my number one heckler too now?
That’s a full time job I hope you know.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:04 PM MST up reply actions
We've seen Favors in how many games?
12, 13? He’s 18 remember. McDyess came out after his 2nd year in college, and was probably 20 or 21 at the time. By that age I’m sure Favors will be just as explosive.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:54 PM MST up reply actions
he's 19
and i don’t see him being as offensively capable as McDyess. But maybe my memory is clouded since McDyess relied a lot on his athleticism early in his career and wasn’t as polished as he became later.
so its possible he can develop into a skilled offensive player like McDyess in a year or 2 but that’s certainly no guarantee.
Gosh darn..... GN
I added several similar comments before I got your post. I like the mention of following Avery’s instructions.
I got to keep up better…. missed Blake’s big game.
On Williams, I’d agree. I thought I saw him get a couple of ticky-tacky fouls, which may mean that a more regular rotation this year might improve that, but dunno/
Shelden
I honestly believe it is time for him to head to the bench. As I said before Karl has no idea how to fit him in. Typically he will play the first 10 minutes of the first quarter and never be seen again sans a brief appearance to start the third quarter.
When the year began we thought he would be a piece we were missing. A guy who set solid screens, worked tirelessly on rebounding and boxing out while being able to hit an open jump shot. He’s turned into a total stiff and a non-factor to say the least. I’m not trying to blame anyone, I just don’t think after seeing what he can do for us we should try something else considering we are currently getting nothing out of him whatsoever.
Start Harrington, but play him a similar amount of minutes he’s getting now. A second unit of Ty, JR, Forbes and Shelden can mix in where help is needed. I honestly believe our starting lineup is too selfish to get Shelden involved in the game at all. You watch Chauncey and Melo just kind of ignore him for most of the game and it’s no surprise he rarely touches the ball or contributes much of anything in his current role.
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Quitter's People United Member #13
I have a serious question.
You mention the starting lineup being selfish. I wonder if during practice that Shelden isn’t playing correctly, making mistakes, etc. If so, maybe that explains why they are reluctant to get him the ball.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I have no idea
I don’t know what goes on in practice. I just think this current role we have Shelden trying to fit in is not working. I think he would play better with Ty and JR Smith off the bench. I think Al Harrington is rebounding the ball really well and we wouldn’t be any worse if he started.
What I don’t believe is that Shelden Williams is a stiff with no basketball talent. He’s an important part of our team, we have seen what he brings to the table. Right now its not working out for either of us, so I just think we need to shake things up, you know? For the betterment of the team
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Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:14 PM MST up reply actions
It's a direct corilation reflection of his minutes being cut
Nobody can make a serious impact on the game in 16 minutes of playing time. When Sheleden was getting 30 mpg he was getting double doubles and was top 10 in the league in rebounding.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
shelden's been in early foul trouble
but he still fits well with the starters. He’s the only guy who gets in position for offensive rebounds. And he’s the only guy who actually sets picks. I’m so tired of watching all the nuggets set limp dick picks and roll out before they even make contact with the defender.
as long as your expectations aren’t too high, i’d say 8pts and 8 rebounds would be about the max I’d expect to see consistently from him. i think he can approach that if he plays a bit smarter and stays out of foul trouble.
Melo had some pop in his game but...
After getting called out pretty hard on national TV Thursday night in the TNT post game by Charles and Kenny for playing a disinterested, non-engaged form of basketball, it was good to see Melo step it up a notch last night. He just seemed to want it more tonight, and played with more hustle than in recent games. Kenny mentioned that there are times in years past where Melo would have asserted himself more and dropped 40, this year he’s happy with 28.
Last night, even though the stats were still similar to other games this year, his level of hunger to win seemed higher. His level of talent is so high that even when he puts it on cruise control he can still lead that team in scoring any given night. He’s been good so far this season, but that “killer”, the one we saw start the season off last year with a power dunk over Millsap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlrbJ6oG7OM and MVP talk league wide has been missing. Last night, right from the start, it seemed that Melo had been listening to Charles and Kenny calling him out and took it up a notch. If he’s going to be here for a while and we’re going to do anything more that tread water as a .500 team he’s got to me more engaged, and I think Melo made a step in the right direction.
As for the rest of the game, it was pretty disappointing to see how this team has played, win or no win. I think a lot of what looked promising early this season was exposed – the stiffness of Shelden, the lack of a real offensive threat from Cbill (although faceplanting kinda took him out of the game, he’s been sub-par so far this season both with his shot and his decision making), the “rookieness” of Forbes to use a Karl-ism, and the lack of real cohesive team play. Assists were up in the first half, but the second half had us reverting to the stand around iso game that’s pervaded Nuggets play for years now.
Also, is it just me or has Afflalo been burned a lot lately on drives from the perimeter when going 1 on 1?
Some highlights were the better play of Lawson relative to his last few outings, the expanded bench GK used that allowed Ely, Forbes, AND JR some minutes, and the stronger play and better usage of Nene.
It’s not all doom and gloom, but I’d say our record is a pretty good reflection of the way this team is currently operating, which is disappointing given our talent level.
I have to take strong issue with this comment
After getting called out pretty hard on national TV Thursday night in the TNT post game by Charles and Kenny for playing a disinterested, non-engaged form of basketball, it was good to see Melo step it up a notch last night. He just seemed to want it more tonight, and played with more hustle than in recent games. Kenny mentioned that there are times in years past where Melo would have asserted himself more and dropped 40, this year he’s happy with 28.
Was this sarcasm and I missed it?
Do you really think Melo gives a rat’s behind what Kenny Smith and Chucky have to say about him?
Melo has been playing hard and with effort this entire season. As far as Melo dropping 40, if he was dropping 40 a game he’d be called out by everyone for being selfish and playing no defense.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Last season Melo > This season Melo
No sarcasm on my part. Last year Melo started the season with a chip on his shoulder and wanted to show just how good he was. See Kenny and Charles comments here regarding his, and the teams, recent play : http://www.nba.com/insidethenba/?c=InsidetheNBA-MostRecent&p=510875&s=5060866&i=771404
They pretty much lambaste him and his play this year, not because he’s been bad, but because they know he’s able to play better than he has been. Last night Melo seemed really engaged to me, and had a higher level of hustle than before.
The NBA is a small fraternity of guys, and despite what we may think these guys do talk to each other and know what’s being said about them. You don’t think that their comments got back to Melo in some fashion? If they sparked Melo, great. If he didn’t hear them at all and just decided to step up his game fine by me as well.
Melo has played very well this season and been a good teammate, but no way can you make me believe that he’s playing with the same energy and enthusiasm that he started off last season with.
Have you watched every game? Not being snarky. I'm asking.
Because the effort I saw last night seemed about the same as all season….
Last year he had chip because he wanted to prove that 2008 WCF wasn’t a fluke. I’m seeing Melo playing more defense and more rebounding so his offensive production is going to be lower because his all around game is better.
I’m not viewing Melo with Blue and Gold glasses. I’m seeing him become a better all around player…..
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Sure have
And just about every game for the past seven years. I’d say (and my girlfriend will reluctantly confirm haha) I watch around 75 of the games per season, with around a half dozen or so or of those per season in person. I live less than two miles from Pepsi Center so it’s easy for me to head down and catch a game.
Agreed that he is a better all around player. His rebounding is up, and that has always been something I thought he was capable of. Some of that is due to the fact that we don’t have much in the way of rebounders to put out there and more time he has spent at the four position w/the small ball we’ve had to play. His D has been pretty decent as well, but as always it’s not like he’s Raja Bell or back in the day Bruce Bowen or anything. The other game this year he’s been really good was the Lakers game, and his play vs. Artest.
It just seemed to me that he had more of an edge energy wise to his game last night, and that seemed to correspond to the Kenny/Charles comments from Thursday post game. Influenced or not, I have no idea and only Melo himself could confirm. I can only hope we continue to see max effort out of him as long as he’s on the team.
I see...I think it's just a confirmation bias :)
Not necessarily causation…cool beans
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I see it too. He wanted to dominate opening last season, this year not so much
…but he is putting up a more well rounded performance. Thing is, he’s capable of improved performance and the edge. The lack of edge is a reflection of his ambivalence toward Denver, a sign he’s not going to sign. Sad, really.
I think he is playing more like '08-'09 Melo
Not as many points and looking to rebound and pass more.
I don’t know why we complain about Anthony’s play style, if he REALLY didn’t care, he wouldn’t play.
I like that he is playing more well-rounded, and smart IMO.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Nov 21, 2010 3:39 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Correction..
On Afflalo – I was referring to his D, not his O
Just a few additional points - glad this conversation has progressed when a couple of reasonable Nets fans are on board.
When Nets have a poll on fansite, I have witnessed over 1000 individual responses in 1 day, which is at least 5 x the response seen here. There is the potential for Nets fan base to grow enormously under Prokhorov.
The fact that Nets fans don’t want to give up Favors is in the end up to Billy King.
My guess is that King would do it even if 90% of fans object.
However, if a deal isn’t done by the end of the 2010, I can easily see that changing.
Nets have a pretty good defensive team right now, thanks to Avery, and will get better as Lopez gets back to normal.
Also, if Melo were to be traded for essentially Favors+Murphy, the Nets would certainly not be GUTTED. Murphy hasn’t even played and Favors has played an average of 20 minutes per game of learning.
With Melo, Nets would easily make playoffs in the East, if he came before Christmas.
I could see Nets as no worse than 4-5th best team next season.
And finally I agree with some who say that Melo ISN’T all about winning a Championship, like LeBron, even if he says that.
He wants to part of a BIG Market and be more of a Global Icon than at present. Once he can be convinced that Prokhorov can bring him that, he will gladly wish to come to Nets (the team with the best player (Favors) and Picks available.)
And if anyone needs evidence that Melo would be a King in the Big Apple, playing for Prokhorov and Nets,
Proky has already proven he would put up a 120 foot billboard right across from Madison Square Garden and he would certainly be willing to put Melo’s picture all over the city, even as he plays on the other side of the Hudson River in a quality Arena (The Rock) for 1 2/3 years.
Bottom line is in the end, Melo can achieve his “true goals” with the Nets and Ujiri can get the best offer from the Nets.
It should all become more clear around Dec. 15.
I think melo is going to be a net soon too.
But it is silly to judge a Fanbase by its SB Nation blog. You do understand how ridiculous that is, right? I think Melo, Humpheries, DJames and Outlaw can hold down the PF spot at least until murphy is bought out and returns to NJ.
Agreed. Nets have the best fansite because of a full time “Net Income” plus a NetsDaily administrator on board and the enthusiasm from the new Owner and his likely $25 billion in assets including the Brooklyn Arena under construction.
I think DJames can play some PF too. Melo I understand doesn’t like being asked to guard PFs? but is still good at it if he wants to be.
I also think that Melo is conflicted about the Knicks, and it is only a matter of time before he is convinced that he can get everything he hoped to achieve with the Knicks, with the Nets, instead.
Winning
Don’t you think that’s a little more important to Melo? Only team worse than the Nets in the East is Philly. The new York Knicks are a better team and Melo’s first choice to play for.
It’s disingenuous for you to assume that the Nets trade for Melo and make the playoffs right away. The facts of the situation don’t suggest that, especially if they lose Favors and all of their depth at power forward.
A New Jersey trade hinges on what third team is going to get involved that will bring the Nugs that second talent besides Favors in exchange for Murphy or Devin Harris.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 1:01 PM MST up reply actions
I don't agree.
If Nets had Melo for Favors+Murphy, and began the season again, they would be at least 11-2.
Nets played Miami and Orlando twice. And TWill and DJames would provide further potential upside.
Beyond the top 3-5 teams (when Boozer returns) everyone else is up for grabs depending on the day.
With Melo, Nets certainly move into thos top 4-5 teams.
Allen Iverson is on NBA TV with his new team in Turkey
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
GK
so i went to the game yesterday and I kept an eye on gk the entire game…it was like waiting for water to boil. he didn’t get up off his chair or talk to anyone (except during timeouts) until 4:41 to go in the 4th. He needs to do the stuff GN mentioned above.
Just a thought...maybe George has to conserve his energy for
when it’s really important. I’m not kidding. He quite possibly could still be in recovery mode from the cancer treatments.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
I think you could be right
But if that’s the case, isn’t the organization asking and expecting too much of him? The added stress of the Nugs / Melo / JR, on top of the already signifigant demands any NBA coach has, could kill the poor guy.
I'm sure he wants to be in there. But do we want AD coaching?
I just think we all need to chill out until Birdman starts playing and see how we do.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Apparently KMart has been running
He might come in December is what one report said.
Man if KMart could play like he did in Jab/Feb last year we become condensers fast.
Big if, but worth a shot. Also increases KMart’s trade value if we want a good big in return who has a bit more size.
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
by JR15 on Nov 21, 2010 4:05 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
NO Dantley!
And, yes, I’m going to induce some relaxation right now.
He's been like that forever
He wasn’t doing anything except shake his head and look mad long before he came down with cancer, so that excuse really doesn’t work.
I'll reserve the optimism for the 17-win seasons; now is the time for scrutiny.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 21, 2010 6:19 PM MST up reply actions
I was speaking of his energy level GN meaning jumping up mostly in the 4th qtr
All I know is this business about how GK behaves seems kind of silly. I mean it’s not like the guy has won nearly 1000 games in his career. Seems like he must be doing something right.
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
hahah...just watching A.I. in Turkey
The fans are wearing AI masks. Hilarious
Optimism Warrior
2011 Colorado Zombies--Will rise from beneath homeplate with the shards of a broken season in Tulo's hand!
Brad Hawpe - Thanks Brad, you were a class act.
QPU #4, YHEG #4, Proud Member PR Gynocracy
Warriors are getting roflstomped in LA right now
I was hoping this would be a close game that might wear out some Golden State’s top guys. Looks like the whole 2nd half could be garbage time
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
didn't ellis get hurt?
i saw part of the game and saw him writhing on the floor in pain.
Don't think so
I only watched a minute or two of the game. It wasn’t really a game. Not sure about Ellis though
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 21, 2010 11:59 PM MST up reply actions
Here's JR's facial on Brook Lopez last night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxCkvPft9hg
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
Rapids=Championship
at least we win something this year
Kroenke wins something!
People say he can’t win anything b/c he is too cheap. Now he has a Stanley cup trophy and an MLS trophy (what is it called again?) on his mantle. Nice thing is it came right after the world cup when some Americans started getting interested in soccer (me included).
Gotta love the haterz. Keep that hate a comin'
Philip F. Anschutz Throphy
and i believe he technically has a Lombardi with the Rams as well, or at least a piece of one.
Haha.... Concerning Favors
I’ve compared Favors favorably to McDyess, however, it wasn’t to style or specific skills, but rather to “game maturity” and general potential
Concerning height……
Draft Express gives this info w/o shoes:
- McDyess .. 6’ 9.5"
- Howard …. 6’ 9"
- Favors …… 6’ 8.75"
I don’t vouch for Draft Express, and it’s also possible that the more recent numbers are more accurate.
It has been pointed out that Favors measures the same as Howard (when he was drafted – within 1/4"), at the same age. Howard, because of his young age, continued to grow. It MAY BE possible that Favors would also grow over the next couple of years.
Obviously, Favor will grow, whether he adds and inch or two over the next couple of years is not knowable in advance, obviously. He will “grow” into his body just as obviously.
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