Jason Thompson as a trade option?
by NugNugz on Nov 16, 2010 11:17 AM MST
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Rumors over the last couple of days have implied that Thompson could be had if the right deal were to come along. I point you to this article in the Sacramento Bee. http://www.sacbee.com/2010/11/16/3188284/kings-notes-thompson-blocks-out.html
While the Kings are mum on the situation, one cannot deny the fact that Thompson is being under-used at roughly 16 minutes a game. Yet over the last two seasons when given starters minutes Thompson has proven to be a quality big man with skill. Aside from stats, I will be honest and say that I know very little about Thompson. The Kings are rarely on television and I have very little interest in their rebuilding years. So with that being said, I'd like to ask some of the other contributors of this site if Jason Thompson could be a viable trade target for the Nuggets? His production, coupled with his rookie contract makes him quite valuable in my opinion, especially if we're trying to stay young (i.e. build around Afflalo, Lawson and hopefully Melo). He could replace K-Mart after this season for instance. The question is, do we have anyone that we want to give up that Sacramento would take. Afflalo is killing it this season, so I really don't want to trade him. I also feel that Ty should be off-limits. Balkman? I don't know why they'd want him, unless they're looking for a scrappy player. JR Smith? That's also problematic due to the fact that they have Evans and Francisco Garcia. It seems somewhat redundant to put JR on that team. And that's as far as I've gotten. Any ideas? Is this even worth exploring or is Thompson not a good fit for this team?
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I appreciate this comment tknuckle
and will make sure to take it into heavy consideration. your comment is rec´d
I dont' see why not
Thompson is a talented guy, and if he’s on the block I don’t see how it could hurt. I’d just send JR and Balkman and if they’d take that then it’s a done deal. Like Nugz mentioned, he’s been very productive when he’s had minutes. Last year he averaged 12.5 and 8.5 in 31 minutes of action in his second year.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
Plus Sac has been interested in JR in the past
and it was always our FO that was never willing to pull the trigger. Now with Uriji it might be different, especially since it’s clear a big reason Melo wants to leave is because he didn’t get a big this past summer. I think if we were to go out and get one it would show him we are willing to still compete with the best. Forbes could fill in for JR fine and AAA is starting anyways so it won’t be that big of a loss for us.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 16, 2010 12:16 PM MST up reply actions
hes 6'11", 250 and only 24.
not quite the 7 footer we all hope to get, but pretty close. i think sacremento is trying to get a point guard in return for him. they tried to grab jeff teague off the hawks for thompson but ATL turned it down. i like thompson a lot. he can play both pf/c and would look great in denver. however, and i cant believe im going to say this, i think giving up JR for thompson is a little pricey. i dont have a substitute trade to get thompson, and i have no qualms about shipping jr, but i think we can get JT for less.
maybe the kings will take karl for JT straight up? i know masai likes that deal. lose karl and pick up a big man. two birds with one bullet.
lol
i know masai likes that deal. lose karl and pick up a big man. two birds with one bullet.
let's go nuggets! who u wit?
firegeorgekarl.com
by 808inDenver on Nov 16, 2010 12:55 PM MST up reply actions
Denver won't do anything until the Melo situation is resolved
…we got a month to wait before the rumors really heat up again with Melo. by then , I suspect we’ll be looking to move him.
I would be all for this trade.
I would have no issues with dealing J.R. to them and even including Balkman for cap space. Thompson is a young big man that we could maybe groom into a starting Center. He would help us stay young and maybe even create a spark that we need going forward into the season.
I'd do it
Thompson is a way better option than Bird and JR’s contract is expiring after this year anyways and we won’t resign him. So you’re basically getting a legit big still on his rookie contract for a couple of years all while cutting cap space and getting rid of a knucklehead too.
This sounds like I’m trying to trade JR, but I’m actually one of the few who would lilke him to say. I just don’t see that as being realistic at this point in time and so getting value out of him would probabaly be the best option.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 16, 2010 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
Salary's don't match up
If we want Thompson we’re gonna have to either take trash back or send AAA…
Quitter's People United Member #35
They dont need to match up
Kings have cap space. Say we send jr+$3m cash and get back thompson. They lose $5m in cap space this year, but are paid the max allowed in a trade, which would cover 90% of JR’s salary for the rest of the year. We save $10m due to a smaller payroll and luxury tax savings, so I think Kronke would spend money to save money.
to get Thompson we would have to triangulate
with a third team that would take Balkman and a pick (Ist or 2nd round ?) for a point guard on either rookie or low contract::
- PG to Kings
- Thompson to Nuggs
- Balkman and pick to team 3
For example, this would work (with a little salary juggling) with Minnesota giving Sebastian Telfair to Sac. Might not sound great for Minny, but they’ll have Rubio next year to go with Flynn.
Oh, forgot, Minny also has Luke Ridnour
and Flynn is coming back from surgery this week, so Telfair could be expendable. I kinda like this fit, so here it is again:
- Telfair to Kings
- Thompson to Nuggs
- Balkman and pick to Wolves
comments?
salaries don't match
Kings would need to cough up another 3-4M to make it work. Thompson is still on his rookie deal at 2.1M this year. JR is at 6.7M
Anyway, Kings want a PG not a SG. Remember that Telfair is averaging 10 points and 4.5 assists in 26 minutes – very solid back-up PG numbers, especially with 40% from 3 points.
Could be win-win-win situation.
Salaries don't have to match
because the Kings are a billion dollars under the cap. Ok, I exaggerate, but the point remains the same. The Kings could probably trade Thompson for Melo straight up and it’d probably work, at least from a salary perspective.
I missed the part about the Kings actually wanting JR ...
…which doesn’t sound much like the canny Geoff Petrie. He and Cousins could make beautiful music together, I’ll tell ya.
But JR for Thompson straight up may in fact be admissable because the Kings are under the salary cap. The Nuggs certainly can’t take back more salary than they give, as they are in lux land.
BTW, I would do that. I am just tired of JR.
Farfetched
Wanna get farfetched with it
We give: Billups, and JR
We get; Beno, Sammy D, and Jason T.
A true C, another big, and a PG to back up lawson. We might e ven be able to snag a pick out of it
I see where you're going with this, and it's not necessarily in a bad direction
but i do think it would be hard for a team that’s rebuilding to take on Billups 14 million a year
I really like that trade
But I think we should trade billups to them and Jr to someone else. If we got JT, Hassan Whiteside and Beno Udrih ( who is playing better that billups btw) that would be great.
Starting lineup
Ty
AAA
Melo
JT
Nene
Off the pine:
Beno
Jr
Forbes
Harrington
Birdman
And maybe Whiteside can crack the lineup
Check out Billups and Udrih side by side
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=qkFtP
Zero chance.
As Nugnugz stated above, what possible reason would a team rebuilding around a 20 year old Demarcus Cousins and a 21 year old Tyreke Evans want with a 34 year PG who’s due $14M this year and guaranteed $3.5M next year? Why would a team trade a guy making $13M over the next 2 years for a guy making $17M over the next year at least, or $27M over the next two years and putting up the same, if not better production as you stated? And give up more assets? And trade for the older player? Zero sense.
If they really like JR, I can see a JR for Thompson trade, no problem. Them taking Chauncey and either A) blowing their entire cap space or B) giving up every big man they have not named Cousins is extremely far-fetched. If anything, I think Sacramento is hoarding their current cap space to see what team is willing to ditch a youngish player with a large contract for peanuts. For instance, if Andre Iguodala became available, I believe the Kings would be all over that one. Iggy would play third fiddle on offense (where he probably belongs) behind Cousins and Evans, and man up against the opponent’s best offensive player. Now that’s a real fit. Not Billups.
Yeah
But I think Billups has star power and is a big name. He was an all-star last year and is “Mr. Big Shot”. If you hear the way other team’s fans talk about billups, they think he is great.
its true
nobody has realized yet, he can’t shoot anymore. still don’t think the kings want him but there’s gotta be teams that do.
only teams i see as possibilities
are Milwaukee or Orlando. Both are young playoffs teams, but just are not quite good enough. They may be able to use veteren leadership to put them over the top kind of like what happened for us 2 years ago. By including JR it may be possible to get our hands on Brandon Jennings if we take back Redd or Jameer Nelson if we take back Reddick.
i drool over the thought of jennings on the nuggs.
that would be too awesome.
by calvin brodus on Nov 17, 2010 9:01 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I would bust if we got Jennings.
and like skithebert says, the teams that will be interested in Billups are teams that think (whether foolishly or correctly) that he’s going to push them over the top and into contender status. that means playoff bound teams. I would love Jennings, but I have to believe he’s one of the 2 untouchables on that team (the other one being Bogut). Furthermore, we have Ty Lawson, who is definitely starter material, so we should use Billups to get a big, not another PG. And because Billups is so well-respected around the league, we should be able to get a pretty good big.
That is the million dollar question
If we think about last year’s 15 other playoff teams in no particular order:
Boston
Chicago
Miami
Cleveland
Orlando
Charlotte
Atlanta
Milwaukee
OKC
Los Angeles
Phoenix
Portland
San Antonio
Dallas
Utah
And then let’s also add the teams that believe they are on the verge of making the playoffs this year:
New Orleans
Indiana
New York
New Jersey (hey that new owner said they would)
Washington (a stretch I know)
Memphis
Houston
Golden State
Then we say, which one of these teams could use Billups at point guard? I personally find it easier to say which teams DON’T need Billups: Boston (Rondo), Chicago (Rose), Golden State (Curry), New Orleans (Paul), Milwaukee (Jennings), Washington (Wall), Dallas (Kidd), OKC (Westbrook), San Antonio (Parker), Phoenix (Nash), Utah (Williams). I would say that the teams I just mentioned would not necessarily feel that they were upgrading at PG by acquiring Billups (you might subtract or add a team or two, but I think in general most would agree). I also assume Memphis will ride with Conley who is having a stellar year, but I also would say that Billups is an upgrade.
That leaves the remaining teams:
Cleveland (who still has a crap load of pgs)
Indiana (who has Collison and is still so young, so again, not sure they’d bite on Billups)
New York
Houston
New Jersey
Los Angeles
Atlanta
Charlotte
Orlando
Miami
Portland
Assuming it wouldn’t be a three-team deal (which could be a faulty assumption), from this list there could be a possible trade partner, preferably someone that’s not a pg since we have Ty Lawson and preferably someone who is a big man since I think we all can agree that Lawson and Afflalo are a nice young backcourt for the future.
Now I will weigh in on my personal desires for targets
I’m not looking at salary cap, but I have a general idea of what the players make. However, keep in mind that additional pieces may or may not have to be added. Also keep in mind that these are my personal wants in conjunction with what I think is realistic. These targets are in no particular order.
Cleveland – Varejao or Hickson + filler
Indiana – Roy Hibbert + Filler (i.e. Jeff foster, Posey or whatever it takes).
New York – has absolutely nothing that interests me, unless they’re trading Stoudamire, which they’re not. Which is good, because those knees – i don’t know if i want him for 5 years
Houston – I’m struggling to think of some bigs that they have. I’m not particularly sold on Jordan Hill or Patrick Patterson. and i don’t want Yao or Brad Miller.
New Jersey – Troy Murphy and Terrence Williams (assuming they won’t deal us Derrick Favors for Billups. I also believe they’ll stick with Harris, for the record).
Los Angeles – I hate the Lakers and the Nuggets won’t deal with them, so this is moot. But I would listen if they offered Bynum (assuming that realistically they won’t offer Gasol).
Atlanta – Josh Smith
Charlotte – I like Stephen Jackson, but he doesn’t serve much purpose on our team. I would probably try to build something around Tyrus Thomas, but the rest of that something has to be extremely good to give up Billups because Thomas still has a lot to prove.
Orlando – Gortat, Pietrus, and someone else that is above average.
Miami – well they’re not trading anyone from the big 3, and do they really have anyone else to offer? Not really.
Portland – LaMarcus Aldridge and filler (who I would love to be Nicolas Batum, but word is they’re not trading him). I would love to have Aldridge, but I’m not sure he solves any problems in regards to intimidating defense and shot blocking. Also, Miller seems to be doing alright with them, so i’m not sure they want to give up Aldridge for another aging PG (even if Billups is a big upgrade over Miller imo).
Of these possibilities I would personally be most interested in Bynum, Josh Smith, Hibbert, Aldridge, or Murphy/Williams, but that’s just me.
These are my thoughts. You are welcome to agree or disagree. Sorry for the long posts.
the only possibility for acquiring a big on that list I see is
varejao. but that would probably involve us taking back antwan jamison and somebody like mo williams (who’s managing to shoot as bad as chauncey this year)
something like Chauncey, JR, Kmart for Jamison, Mo Williams and Varejao. I’m not sure acquiring Lebron’s castoffs would convince Melo to stay.
ooo your last point is an excellent.
you might be right about everything else. I most certainly do not want Mo Williams on this team.
Redd is expiring
And they’re not giving up their best player in Jennings for Billups. Billups isn’t even an upgrade. So basically Milwaukee is giving up the younger, better, cheaper player who still has upside and an expiring for… an expiring, and an expiring with a $3.5M guarantee for next year. Where’s the logic in that? Would you trade Ty Lawson for Baron Davis? Of course not. Milwaukee fans could make a legitimate argument that they’d rather have Jennings than Melo right now considering their age and contract statuses, much less Jennings over Billups.
There’s more chance of Orlando but again, Jameer is younger, just as good if not better, and is making $15M over the next two years vs. Chauncey’s $27M (if he’s bought out, he’s basically $17M for 1 year). And while Reddick’s contract is certainly excessive, it’s not brutally so just because the duration isn’t in the 5-6 year range, I doubt they’re want to cut bait with their best shooter outside of maybe Rashard Lewis when the team’s entire philosophy is spacing shooters around Howard. Now, if Reddick keeps playing like crap, there’s a slim chance of a Reddick/Nelson trade but that’d be in the distant horizon, closer to the trade deadline than anything.
I’m not trying to be Debbie Downer shooting down trade proposals left and right but there’s zero sense in these for the other teams. If we’re throwing out trade ideas that will have 0% chance of happening, I’d like to offer up a K-Mart for Dwight Howard trade. If we’re gonna aim big and miss huge, might as well aim for the top.
No offense taken
you always bring solid input. although it is always easier shooting ideas down than coming up with them. i’m just trying to come up with possibilities, so a critical assessment is welcome. It’s true Brandon Jennings is unlikely unless we include some other valuable piece. I still would consider Bogut their centerpiece though. I thought Redd had another year. But I’m not sure if they’d wanna dump any of their other wings since they are were just signed.
I think Orlando is at least possible. Reddick has been injured and playing like total shit. If he’s not shooting well, it makes his contract look real bad cause he does nothing else but shoot. They seem to be playing a more traditional lineup now with Bass/Gortat at PF and moving Lewis into SF. That cuts out one 3pt shooter on the floor, which may further reduce Reddick’s minutes. They’ve also been shooting really poorly as a team, so who knows maybe they’ll want somebody like JR. Jameer, while talented, is also injured a lot. People still see Billups as a leader and motivator, which may be what Orlando needs later in the season into the playoffs.
There just aren’t a lot of legitimate big men available to trade for. The only other possibility I see is with a team like Philly and getting the dreaded Elton Brand contract. I know nobody wants that contract, but he is playing well this year 16pts 8.2 reb 1.4 blocks. And he’s averaging 54% shooting (best of his career) and 3.5 offensive rebounds a game, which is impressive. The other piece could be Jru Holliday or Lou Williams, who’s playing well off the bench averaging 14pts. 3.5 assists in 23 min. Lou Williams is more of a score first point guard, which may force Lawson into the starting role. Since it also saves $4 mil this year, a trade like this seems possible:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2cpc3at
Chauncey/K-mart for Brand/Lou Williams/Kapono
It’d be awesome if we could include JR and get Iggy back but I dunno how likely that is.
Chauncey/Kmart/JR for Iggy/Brand/Williams/
Actually
Philly would absolutely love to get out from under Brand’s contract, if they are looking lottery bound by the deadline (which you know they will be) and if Turner looks like the real deal (which is a big if) then I think you could get away with sending them K-mart, JR and Balkman for Iggy and Brand. It’s a stretch and it hurts the Nuggets long term flexibility but the lineup would be very solid and i don’t think its that crazy to think Philly might do it under those circumstances
PG- Billups/Lawson
SG- Iggy/AAA/Forbes
SF- Melo/Harrington/Forbes
PF- Brand/Williams/Harrington
C- Nene/ Bird/Williams
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
obviously
a trade like that goes down only if Melo agrees to sign the extension
Why live life on the edge, when you can jump off?
Quitter's People United Member #20
unfortunately I don't think Melo wants to sign an extension with a team that doesn't have Kmart as a part of it.
Kmart is one of Melo’s “Dawgs” and if he gets shipped out of town then so goes the Meloman imo.
by InboundingLobPass on Nov 17, 2010 11:41 PM MST up reply actions
I think they'd give up their first born to get out of Brand contract
As long as it doesn’t cost them one of their core pieces, which right now basically consists of Evan Turner, Holiday, and maybe Iggy, they’d probably move Brand and a sweetener for expirings and a useful piece or two.
I agree with you.
But do we actually want Brand? (not implying that you said we do). But think about it- We’ve been waiting all these years to get out of Kmart’s contract (basically the same averages) and we’re going to extend it by taking on Brand? I have to believe there’s a better option, even if Iggy was included. And if we did trade for Iggy, where’s he going to play? Are we assuming that Iggy means Melo will leave? Or is it in hopes that they’ll play together? If that’s the case, what about Afflalo? Is Iggy that big of an upgrade?
Trust me
They’re itching pretty badly. Philly sucks d right now even with Brand and Iggy in the lineup, so in their eyes they see no reason to keep huge contracts like that on their books if they’re just going to continue to suck. They want to rebuild, but without Brand and Iggy’s contracts off the books they can’t. The only thing that’s really thown a twist into how much they’d want is how well Brand has been playing this season. But, conversley Iggy has been playing like crap, especially with Turner on the floor at the same time. They’d definitely move both of those guys, but they want young talent back in return to help the rebuilding process. We don’t really have that though, so the only way I could see us landing them is through a three way trade where we sent expirings to some team that then sent young guys and picks over to Philly, but again that’s a tough situation to imagine.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 18, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
We need a legitimate big
Getting the best point guard in the world doesn’t change that.
A lot of people are hanging their hopes on Birdman and Kenyon coming back. Birdman is a bit player, he comes off the bench and averages 5 pts and 5 rebounds. He’ll help where he can, but it won;t make nearly the difference people expect. He might start out playing 10 mins a game. He’ll probably average not much more than 15 mins in an effort to preserve his career.
Kenyon is a total unknown. It’s not yet guaranteed that he can come back or when. Earliest possible seems January close to halfway through the season. At that point, how effective can he be? How many bad habits will the Nuggets have already developed by the time he comes back? You can’t expect him to change the face of this team defensively right away. He will be brought along slowly and like start out playing few minutes in an effort to save him.
Also, nobody will be traded until Carmelo stays or goes. That’s the catch 22 we are in. Melo wants the team to improve before he extends, and the team wants Melo extended before they give up anyone in a trade.
twitter.com/skitalicious
Quitter's People United Member #13
by runningdonut on Nov 17, 2010 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
i don't think JR is untradable.
He’s been playing well and he’s still young, can shoot from anywhere and would be a good fit for a team needing extra scoring.
That said, I don’t want to see JR head out of town, I think he’s been one of the more exciting players to watch in recent years…. but it seems like he’s destined to play limited minutes now like his arch nemisis Sasha Vuyabitch. Plus is Thompson good enough to embody the kind of improvement Melo yearns for? He’s not KG or Haywood for that matter. Its interesting isn’t it how we as fans put so much emphasis on how well some guys can play and then later they don’t do much of anything. I was unimpressed with how Haywood was playing when we were matchedup against the Mavs recently, and he’s a guy we’ve collectively been pining for for a couple of years now. It will really come down to the fact that while the draft is a total gamble (according to Wark and friends) its process you have to go through to have any chance at getting a young big on the cheap as anyone who’s a known entity gets paid too much to go after (if you’re a team like the nuggets who’re in the luxury tax realm). Here’s hoping Ujiri can work some magic and either A) figure out a way to pull off an incredible trade that nobody saw coming, or B) in the event Melo walks @ the end of the season (not a smart move) or is traded, Ujiri is able to get some acceptable in return and is able to parlay his international scouting experience into someone unheardof who works out amazingly. Neither of those options sounds likely or even plausable. So we may just have to “live with it” whatever the result is. Every fan wants their team to win, but if their team isn’t winning it doesn’t mean the fan has to be happy with it or less enthusiastic or supportive of the team, just means they’re not winning.
tldr→ there are ways it COULD work out well, but more likely it won’t.
by InboundingLobPass on Nov 17, 2010 11:01 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Thompson is a proven rotation player
not an all-star. But he responded very well to being thrust young into big minutes when Hawes was hurt. And he has lots of offense compared to Haywood.
BUT, getting back to the point, the KIngs want and need a PG. If they love JR, fine, I’ll do him for Jason tomorrow. If they want to improve their team, we’ll need to help them get a PG – and as I mentioned above, Minny has about 17 of them. Telfair would be a quality back-up to Udrih, or maybe Minny would part with Flynn for JR if they are sure Rubio is coming ( that is, Flynn to Kings, JR to Minny, Thompson to Nuggs).
That’s a fair deal all round IMHO.
Lest we forget the PGs in Cleveland
Mo Williams, Ramon Sessions and Boobie might be of interest to the Kings. Which in turn made me think of Andersen Varejao. Isn’t there anyway to land him? They could use a wing scorer like JR, right? Yeah Varejao is annoying as shit when he’s not on your team, but perhaps likable when he IS on it.
Tayshaun Prince and Zach Randolph are a couple names being floated around
I just read an article on Real GM (I think) that said there have been severl playoff contending teams that have inquired about Randolph. He’s the type of player we need to get to convince Melo to stay. The only thing is I don’t know what we could offer Memphis in return other than Ty Lawson that they woud take back and being that they are set at the PG position I dont’ see that happening. Prince would be a nice addition though too. But same thing, I don’t know what we could offer Detroit.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
You can offer to take Rip's contract
I’m betting you could do K-Mart/Smith for Rip/Prince and another decent asset like Jereko or maybe a lottery protected 1st and it would be a legit offer. Not so sure about Memphis though, its possible they’d consider a package around Lawson to give them a backup and insurance policy if Conley tanks.
Yeah I agree about the Pistons trade
But then we’d look more like the Pistons than the Pistons do right now (no size, all wing-men). Our number one priority is still a big, and that’s why Randolph is so intriguing. Thing is, no way we trade Ty for a one year rental of Sack Randolph.
Josh McRoberts you STIFF!!!
by GoldenNugget on Nov 18, 2010 11:45 AM MST up reply actions
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