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Why don't we have more talk about the situation with the referees?

 

I would think that this site would be covered with talk about how we got screwed when Iverson was here!  I would also think that the new revelation about Billups would have us up in arms ready to file lawsuits against the NBA! 

How can we post previews for games and not talk about how we hope the referees are in our favor tonight?  Every post should start with "I hope the refs are betting on the Nugs to cover tonight".  The cat is out of the bag and we just need to the right interviewer to sit down with Donaghy and make a real interview out of it.  Forget about trying to blast him for ratting people out and get into the details of what fixing is going on.

Referees aren't allowed to have biases in sports and those that do should serve time in jail for collusion.  The execs responsible for coaching the referees should spend time in jail as well.  Sport is about fairness otherwise it isn't sport.  They can't call it basketball if it isn't a fair competition.  If Donaghy was winning 70 to 80 percent of his bets by knowing what referee's agendas were for certain games then something is seriously wrong. 

Someone should sit down with Donaghy and takes notes of what he says about the refereeing in the game the other night against the Spurs.  Then they can go back over games for the last 4 or 5 years in which the Nugs played the Lakers, Spurs, and Cavaliers.  I have always thought those games were fixed and sometimes the Nugs beat the fix. 

What is funny about this whole thing is I bet Nugs fans should be the most upset.  With the attitudes of the players on the team we all love comes hate from the referees and the NBA.  Who here wants to bet against me that before every Nugs game the NBA sends down a directive saying "put the clamps down on JR for his excessive celebrations after made buckets and his demonstrative actions after we make a bad call, get him by calling every little foul you can get away with (or Melo, Kmart, Billups, Nene, etc.)"?


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samdman created a post but I think it needs a little more juice

So I decided to post this one in hopes that people really start talking about it.

by Gasus on Dec 7, 2009 3:55 PM MST reply actions  

Here is a good story I read on the 60 Minutes piece ...

Link

Here is an excerpt from the article talking about the stated A.I. game:

If Donaghy was able to execute his plan, he did a better job concealing it than you could imagine. The Nuggets attempted 31 free throws to Utah’s 17, and Iverson went to the free-throw line more than anyone else in the game; he was 11 for 12. But there’s more, thanks to Synergy Sports Technology, which logs in-depth statistics, play outcomes and video clips of every NBA game.

In the game in question, Iverson drove to the basket 12 times. I watched every one of those plays. Iverson made two driving layups, missed four, lost the ball once and drew five fouls — three of which were called by Donaghy himself. He was called for two personal fouls and drew nine in the game.

Iverson was called twice for palming the ball, an infraction known as a discontinued dribble. One call was made by Zielinski and the other by Donaghy, who also whistled Utah’s Deron Williams for the same infraction with two minutes left in the game. At the time, cracking down on palming was a point of emphasis for the NBA’s officiating department, according to a source.

The Synergy video clips showed one play on which Iverson obviously was fouled and didn’t get the call. With 2:28 left in the third quarter, Iverson missed a driving layup in transition. Donaghy, the baseline official on the play, failed to call Mehmet Okur for hitting Iverson with his left arm. Donaghy did, however, call Okur for fouling Reggie Evans, who got the offensive rebound and missed both of his free throws.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Dec 7, 2009 4:33 PM MST reply actions  

side show

there is a very fine line between a legitimate sport and professional wrestling. i know this may come as quite a shock to most readers of this blog including myself BUT PRO WRESTLING IS NOT REAL! sports in general a long time ago has blurred the line between true competition and entertainment. once the element of obscene money becomes part of the equation corruption in one form or another will always follow. john wooden once said the purest form of basketball played today is womens college basketball. some very talented players can dunk and shoot 3 pointers but cannot make a free throw. several years ago the t-wolves tried to make an under the table deal with joe smith. the university of memphis and derrick rose had the sat test scam. look at all the teams in the nba that trade away their best players, tank the season and try to position themselves for the draft or free agents. basketball is a great game. it is truly an equal opportunity proposition. i am not trying to make fun of handicapped people but you never hear of wheel chair football. name another sport that has a womens pro league on par with the wnba. there is no other sport that translates so well to so many different kinds of people all over the world. the nba ref scandal is only the tip of the iceberg.

pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow

by nohoops4u on Dec 7, 2009 4:34 PM MST reply actions  

Worth mentioning

Just as you complained about Saturday’s game being so poorly officiated, Spurs fans were saying the exact same thing, from their perspective.

Foul calls are subjective and are called too quickly for intentional malice to influence them. Certain referees are going to call games different. That doesn’t automatically mean there is malice or intentional bias.

by rosenthal on Dec 7, 2009 4:52 PM MST reply actions   1 recs

I'm taking this to say that like in baseball you know what kind of strike zone you are going to get based off who is behind the plate.

Would that be correct?

It’s definitely the case in basketball that you just know how certain refs are going to call games … that’s no secret at all.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Dec 7, 2009 4:56 PM MST up reply actions  

It’s that case in all sports.

Basketball gets this rap as being a horribly officiated game. Every sport has its problems. The Stanley Cup Finals ended on one of the worst calls of all time in the 90s. Just ask the Twins about Joe Mauer’s non-double a month or so ago. Chargers fans have reason to think Hochuli hates them… And so on. Human officials = human errors.

I have no idea why basketball gets such a bad rap — well, I have a hunch, but don’t want to start a race-debate — but for whatever reason, the media loves to focus on how poor NBA officials are. Realistically, they’re no worse than any other sport.

by rosenthal on Dec 7, 2009 5:03 PM MST up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Leave Chad Billingsley alone!!!

by shaqfor3 on Dec 7, 2009 5:59 PM MST up reply actions  

-1

Can’t compare baseball umpires to basketball referees. Mostly because of the sheer volume of plays that basketball refs can or do affect versus the number in baseball.

Not a chance an ump could do what Donaghy did and beat Vegas almost 80% of the time JUST from knowing who was calling balls and strikes that day…

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

by Big Mickey D on Dec 7, 2009 8:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I’m just talking about knowing that with certain refs/umps you know what you’re going to get…maybe more from a player standpoint. My comment had nothing to do with being able to gamble on games.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Dec 7, 2009 9:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions  

Understood

I know that you weren’t talking about the gambling aspect. I brought it up to demonstrate how completely different the two types of officiating are and why the idea of an NBA offical having biases and tendancies is so much different (and worse) than an MLB umpire having similar tendencies and biases.

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

by Big Mickey D on Dec 7, 2009 10:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Dec 8, 2009 9:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Baseball is officiated very well

I have no doubt that baseball is a fair sport (unless you count teams that have money and teams that don’t). Come on, there is no comparison what-so-ever. If you don’t see the problems in basketball then you are blind. Just listen to Donaghy, couldn’t he have sold tons of books saying it was only him? Couldn’t he have made a deal with the NBA for a lot of money to keep quiet? I truly believe that if you don’t see this then you have your eyes closed.

People from all teams bitch about the refereeing because it is talked about so much in the media. Spurs fans whine all the time because their team plays with the refs in their pocket. They think that the flops of Ginobili and Parker should always be called because most referees call them. The only way the Spurs win every year is because they have the refs in their back pocket. If you don’t see this then you are blind. Don’t you see Ginobili dive (literally) into Nene and get a foul called? Don’t you see him get touched on the hand by JR and fall backwards 8 feet (literally)?

I think the NBA may have a reason to quit with the Spurs bias this year because Donaghy writes about how their are a few referees who love to see them win. Look at their record after all the media predicting them to be some great challenge to LA and Portland. I just can’t believe how people can say they don’t see this with the Spurs. I can understand as a fan because that causes you to be blind to it but as someone who isn’t a fan of the team it is really obvious.

by Gasus on Dec 8, 2009 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

My point on baseball and basketball was missed.

The only thing I was saying is that in baseball players know that in each league (American and National) you have a different strike zone. With different umps you have a bit of a different zone as well.

In basketball you know that some refs will call things tight or some will let you get away with X, Y, or Z.

That’s all I was saying. Not a commentary on fair or not fair … just that with umps/refs there are things you can expect heading into a game.

Denver Stiffs.com: Defending the sovereignty of Nuggets Nation.

by Nate Timmons on Dec 8, 2009 3:07 PM MST up reply actions  

It is hard to have a conversation about the ref fiasco

And part of the reason that it is difficult to talk about is the hyperbole being tossed about. I think it is silly to think games are “fixed” and that referees can single-handedly help a team win or lose. They do play a part. A small part. And in close games with questionable calls down the stretch there is going to be scrutiny, especially if you are on the wrong end of a call. Ask a Dallas fan about the non-call of an intentional foul in the playoffs last year.

While I think the allegations deserve some serious scrutiny — more than the external investigation that the NBA already had — I don’t think that NBA basketball is anywhere close to pro wrestling in terms of irrelevance. Nor do I think this is as serious a scandal as points shaving.

It’s a big deal, yes. But not worth giving up on the most exciting spectator sport (after world cup soccer).

by Fly Agaric on Dec 7, 2009 8:17 PM MST reply actions  

I actually don't think it would be that hard to affect a game

Let’s say a ref want the Cavs to lose a game. All he has to do is call a couple of quick fouls on Lebron early in the 1st quarter, and he will have to come out of the game until at least the 2nd quarter. That would obviously put the Cavs at a big disadvantage.

by kiraly41 on Dec 7, 2009 10:27 PM MST up reply actions  

Tim Donaghy may have done the prison time

      but sometimes it feels like his legacy lives on in the NBA. The game of basketball has a quick pace and a continuous flow that makes it difficult for the refs to be completely accurate on every single call, many of us understand that fact. When you hear that certain refs have preferences for certain players and teams it seems like Donaghy was a scape goat for the rest of the NBA. The problem becomes worse when the schedule appears to favor certain big market teams while appearing to screw over some of the less favorable teams.

       I dont want to make any out right claims of corruption since the NBA is my favorite professional league but they need to find a way to amend bad calls. Every coach should have the ability to request a video review, but not in a way to impede the flow of the game. I also believe that referee’s should be held accountable for making bad calls whether by suspension or fine it should be made understood that the league will not tolerate favoritism from the game officials.

     On the flip side it is frustrating to watch players ask the officials for a call repeatedly during a game. Ideally the players should have no need to ever speak to an official during a game instead they should let the refs focus on the game and get back to playing. Overall its an issue with no clear or easy solution, maybe one day the NBA can make the game fair, but for now all we can do is support our favorite team no matter how poorly the officials call the game.

by distortedman on Dec 8, 2009 12:49 AM MST reply actions  

Check out my new column on Donaghy...

Hi All,

I had been working on a Donaghy piece but wanted to give the A.I. reunion lead coverage today. Anyway, now that we’ve crushed the 76ers my Donaghy column is up complete with solutions to the NBA’s referee problem. Please give it a read and let me know what you think!

Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com

by Andrew Feinstein on Dec 8, 2009 12:54 AM MST reply actions  

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