Nuggets / Iverson featured in "60 Minutes" Donaghy Segment
It's fitting that on the eve of the Nuggets facing off against Allen Iverson, Iverson's time in Denver was featured on "60 Minutes" during their interview with disgraced former NBA referee Tom Donaghy. A must see.
about 2 years ago
Andrew Feinstein
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nba officiating
the only consistent thing about the referees is that they are inconsistent. i have been watching the nba since the 1960’s and it has always been that way. the problem is the calls are too subjective to each officials interpretation. until 1977 the players were at an advantage because there were only two referees each game. jerry sloan of the bulls used to grab an opponents jersey and pull the player down on top of him to draw an offensive foul. after the kermit washington- rudy tomjonovich incident the nba went to three refs. more refs more fouls and there was more control of the game. with concepts like no harm no foul and the even up call there is too much latitude. at this point there is one of two scenarios that will take place. maintain the status quo. accept the fact the officiating is subjected to broad, varied and inconsistent interpretation. the second option is to have the game called extremely tight with zero tolerance. the refs will be graded according to strict job performance standards and retained or let go based upon grading. this will at first result in a parade back and forth to each free throw line until the players adjust. keeping things as they are will always have a cloud of suspicion hanging over the game.
pick up a calf every day pretty soon you will be picking up a cow
great post
We are indeed in a quagmire of sorts with the refs. One pre-season wouldn’t be enough to enact major changes and the game would get downright maddening with too many fouls. But at the same time it needs to change.
Eliminating the bias though, that’s the best, easiest fix out there I think. If the refs need to be deprogrammed by a weekend stint getting worked on by the Men In Black, or locked down in Guantanamo or something, well… let’s make that happen.
Dude?
You cannot use the MIB standard issue deneurolizer on humans unless they’ve had known interactions with alien beings! Didn’t you listen to K at all?
Oh yeah the refs suck. They are leaps and bounds better than the replacement refs, but still it’s like comparing a firing squad to the electric chair someone is still gonna die. I do agree with the “reprograming” of the refs. The only problem is that they are most likely basketball fans, and fans have favorites. it is impossible to remove the human elements from officiating. Besides we have so many debates that come from their percieved errors.
by Joelsopinion on Dec 7, 2009 12:36 PM MST up reply actions
If any of them worked a game in which Sam Cassell played
I think they qualify as having interactions with aliens. Haha!
And the NBA should be more like the military. They should scour school grounds looking for unsuspecting enlistee’s. My vote is for them to hit up the debate club practices… get some people who know diddly about hoops yet are stern in their convictions… drill some NBA rules into these guys and Kobe hasn’t a prayer!
Pretty amazing.
The NBA and FBI concluded that he wasn’t influencing the outcomes of games he was reffing. If that’s true, and he was still able to have a 70-80% success rate using inside information about ref/NBA biases , that means 70-80% of the time, depending on the ref, the outcome of the game had been decided before the tipoff. That’s a bombshell.
All the allegations that people have made about the NBA favoring big markets and certain players seems to be true. I always had suspicions. Now it seems obvious as I believe Donaghy is telling the truth. I’m not sure how the situation can be remedied but I sure am sick of certain players/teams getting bailout calls just because of who they are.
I agree it’s crazy to think about, but it actually means that 70-80% of the time the point spread of the game changed, not the outcome.
The problem with the interview to me was the former official (and former union rep) saying that the refs do complain about specific players in the locker room. He justified this as ok, saying that it would never effect their judgement. I find that hard to believe that on some level openly discussing how you can’t stand somebody won’t at least subconsciously effect your calls. The NBA needs to make a cultural shift with their officials where that behavior is not allowed.
also, it doesn’t mean 70-80% of games are influenced by refs-just 70-80% of the games donaghy bet on because he knew bias was present.
still I don’t know how this isn’t a bigger story. it’s indisputable proof that nba refs are crooked. the league’s integrity is compromised until all the veteran refs are fired.
by Rainbow skyline on Dec 7, 2009 3:40 PM MST up reply actions
It's not indisputable
Simply because the source of the info is a convicted felon. I for one think he’s telling the truth, but in the court of public opinion a felon’s word is worthless. If another ref, retired or active, were to come forward with similar info, then his word is credible, and people would then look more seriously at Donaghy’s story.
Several Ex-Refs and our very own George Karl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWNAOYOn3vw&feature=related
It is long but well worth it. There is one moment where George has to pause to prevent himself from cursing but still can’t help but say “It pisses me off.” It’s classic.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
You’re correct its just the spread that was changed 70-80%. That to me is just as bad as changing the actual outcome of the game. The ref doesn’t have control over how well a team plays, how well it reacts to not getting any calls, or how large the spread is. If the spread is small then certainly the percentages go up… but the fact the game was not played on a level playing field is a huge wrong committed on the unfavored team whether they actually end up losing when they should have won or not.
I have no doubt
That small markets are getting screwed royaly by Stern. The most loyal fans exist in the small market cities, but the money is of course from the large draw cities. The whole laker dynasty of the early 00’s was proof of this. Dallas and Sacremento routinely out played the lakers, but always lost in the end. Usually behind a “botched” call I might add.
by Joelsopinion on Dec 7, 2009 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
San Antonio is a small market
Nevertheless the NBA has been favorable to them.
I tend to lean on the league playing favorites, but I do not think it is as simple as the league wanting large market teams to win. Otherwise they would all over keeping the Knickerbockers more competitive.
Also: Donaghy was on ESPN and went into more detail about other players the refs didn’t like.
Rasheed Wallace, Ron Artest. No surprise there. Then he mentions… wait for it… Chauncey Billups. A lot of refs did not like him, Donaghy said.
The guy’s credibility is, admittedly, suspect. So take it with a grain of salt. But a lot of fans around the league who have seen their teams’ fortunes dive because of questionable calls will probably join me in thinking the NBA and its official have some explaining to do.
Frankly, I want heads to roll and a comprehensive code-of-ethics for game officials and greater accountability for inconsistent calling.
I see your point
but the NBA is a business. In a succesful business you either have something that everyone wants i.e. Timmy or Dirk, or you go to were the money is. They’ve been holding out on the Knicks for the Lebron James Power Ball coming this summer.
I believe the dude and I am upset that he’s not being taken more seriously, or that an investigation (by an outside party) isn’t being undertaken. MLB players take roids to hit a few extra dingers (cheating) and congress is involved. The NBA could have on it’s hands, what is on par with a point shaving scandal, and no one outside of jaded fans seem to care.
I definitely agree
that this is a big story that not enough people are noticing.
I don’t necessarily think games are fixed, though. But they are certainly influenced by biases and agendas. And frankly, fans shouldn’t have to deal with that BS.
I think the Spurs bias has more to do with their players. You don’t see Tony Parker or Tim Duncan complaining about a lot of calls. I do see Chauncey complaining though.
I also don’t think the Knicks is a good example. The refs don’t make the draft-day decisions, shoot the shots, or make the free throws. But I’d be willing to bet if the Knicks were good enough to get into the playoffs there’d be some bias towards getting them into the later rounds.
Funny
If this is true then I think there is no doubt that Melo and Kenyon are at the top of the “most-hated” by today’s refs. Hopefully they keep getting calls lol
Check out
Big Mickey D’s post from a month ago. Come on guys! We need to be more upset about this as a whole community of fans!!!
by SternfluffsKobe on Dec 7, 2009 11:31 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Check out my Donaghy article...
Hi All -
I’ve just posted a lengthy piece on the Donaghy situation and served up three simple solutions to the NBA’s referee problem…
Andrew Feinstein | DenverStiffs.com | denverstiffs@gmail.com
by Andrew Feinstein on Dec 8, 2009 12:53 AM MST up reply actions
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