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Now what? Four proposed trades the Nuggets should think about...

Note: This is the first of two columns suggesting moves the Nuggets could make this summer. Today's column focuses on trades for players under contract elsewhere and a second column will focus on acquiring unrestricted free agents.

Last August, I wrote a piece on Allen Iverson titled: "The hardest man to trade in the NBA?" (Which, in hindsight should have been titled "The second hardest man to trade in the NBA?" as Kenyon Martin was and still is the hardest guy to get rid of.) In that column, I threw out three proposed trades for The Answer and, lo and behold, my third proposed trade came to fruition - even though I only gave the A.I. for Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyess deal a 5% chance of happening.

With NBA free agency kicking off at 12:01am EST Wednesday and drumbeats from the media to the fans getting louder and louder for the Nuggets to make a big move for a big guy, I will present four possible acquisitions/trades that the Nuggets should seriously consider for this offseason. Could I actually call one of these right again?

Before jumping into this new round of proposed deals, let's do a quick recap of the Nuggets dreadful salary cap situation. As detailed a few weeks ago, nine players - including the broken down Steven Hunter and the non-Nugget Antonio McDyess - are already on the books for about $68.7 million. Just $2.8 million shy of the NBA's projected luxury tax threshold of about $71.5 million. And that doesn't account for re-signing Linas Kleiza for $2.7 million (it should be noted that the Nuggets have already made their qualifying offer to Kleiza, meaning they can match any offer from an opposing team), Chris Andersen for about $4 million and Ty Lawson for about $1.2 million. (Note this doesn't include re-signing Anthony Carter and/or Dahntay Jones.)

Add all that up, and for just 10 active players the Nuggets are staring at a $76.6 million payroll. And that's with no veteran backup point guard (like A.C.), no veteran defensive two-guard (like Dahntay) and, most importantly, no "big" man as the columnists, bloggers and fans universally believe the Nuggets have to get to keep up with the Lakers and Spurs. For the purposes of this exercise, let's conservatively estimate that the Nuggets add another $3.5 million in payroll to fill out a 14-man roster (three NBDL-type guys making about $750,000 apiece plus a re-signing of A.C. or Dahntay at around $1.3 million), and the Nuggets projected payroll, pre-tax, would be about $80 million, or $8.5 million over the tax line (meaning Kroenke would have to pay out an additional $8.5 million to the NBA). Note that the Nuggets get back $2.25 million from their record sale of the 34th overall pick which will lessen the pain somewhat from the tax payment, making Kroenke's total payroll costs for 2009-10 - for players only - could amount to $86.25 million. Yikes.

Even with A.C. and/or Dahntay (two key pieces to the Nuggets 2008-09 success whether you want to admit it or not), I have the Nuggets finishing third behind the Lakers and Spurs and tied with the Trail Blazers. Oh, and before we forget, thank you Yao Ming for possibly missing much of 2009-10 or the Nuggets might be fifth in the West.

Given this salary cap mess, how do the Nuggets get back into the conversation alongside the Lakers and the Spurs? Nuggets coach George Karl has already said that the Nuggets roster as-is can improve, implying that they can return to the conference finals or perhaps make their first ever NBA Finals with the roster as-is (assuming Birdman is re-signed). While in theory that's possible, I don't trust it will happen. I already brought up my concerns about the Nuggets - including coach Karl - performing with nothing to prove next season. This is precisely why I don't want Karl extended until after the postseason concludes next year. At least one member of the Nuggets has to have the incentive to prove that 2008-09 wasn't a fluke, and whether it's fair or not, that person should be Karl as the Nuggets are under no obligation to extend him now.

As for the players, questions abound. Will Carmelo Anthony play like he did in Games 1 and 2 of the conference finals for 82 games? Will J.R. Smith make the leap from inconsistent gunner to bona fide All-Star caliber shooting guard (after he gets out of jail, of course)? Will Kenyon Martin and Nene stay healthy for two straight seasons? Will a 33 year old Chauncey Billups have another 82-game, 33 minutes per night season in him plus playoffs? Will Birdman play with the same reckless abandon even though he has a fat contract? Will Ty Lawson supplant Anthony Carter as a credible backup point guard? And so on. If you ask me, those are too many questions for an organization to just sit on its hands this summer. If the Nuggets want to compete for a championship, they're going to have to make a big move and be willing to pay for it.

Before getting to these proposed deals, keep the following points in mind...

1) The Nuggets own a $9.8 million trade exception thanks to the A.I. deal. Meaning, they don't have to adhere to the "salaries have to be within 125% of each other" rule to make a deal. In other words, as long as Kroenke is willing to spend, the Nuggets can make almost any deal they want.

2) Any deal the Nuggets make will have to include Steven Hunter (pictured above in case you forgot who he is or what he looks like) and his expiring $3.7 million contract and/or Linas Kleiza, assuming the Nuggets keep him at $2.7 million for next season. Kroenke may be willing to greatly exceed the cap for a winner, but not on top of paying a non-factor like Hunter almost $4 million and Kleiza has to be thrown in because he offers inexpensive talent off the bench.

3) The Nuggets cannot include Nene, their most valuable trading asset not named Melo or J.R., in any deal. And before I'm accused of being "contradictory" for previously suggesting Nene be shipped out for someone like Andrew Bogut, note that I had the Nuggets staying within the tax threshold for any deals proposed in that column. If the Nuggets are to compete with the Lakers and Spurs, they'll need Nene plus a big man. (Unless of course you could turn Nene into Dwight Howard, which will never happen.)

4) I'm not proposing any deals for centers making more than $10 million per season for two or more seasons. This eliminates names like Bogut or Amare Stoudamire or Emeke Okafor or Andris Biedrins or Tyson Chandler, etc. The only way the Nuggets could get a guy like Bogut or Okafor and not be in luxury tax hell would be to part with Nene, which doesn't make the Nuggets better than the Lakers or the Spurs. And no one is taking K-Mart's contract until 2010, unless he's packaged with Melo or Smith - neither of whom is getting traded.

5) All of these trades involve teams that are either cash strapped or have owners looking to shed payroll for one reason or another. For example, when writing this I tried to find a way for the Nuggets to acquire Joakim Noah from the Bulls as a fifth possible deal, but the Bulls don't have any contracts bad enough (plus Noah makes next to nothing and has become very valuable) nor are they hurting financially enough to save a few million on a Hunter-for-Noah deal.

With that, I present four possible deals for the Nuggets to consider, in no particular order of preference...

Hunter and Kleiza to the Grizzlies for Marc Gasol and Greg Buckner

Why Memphis Would Do This: By drafting Hasheem Thabeet, the Grizzlies are signaling that Gasol won't be their center of the future. Moreover, with Juan Carlos Navarro vacating Memphis as soon as he could, Ricky Rubio refusing to even workout for the Grizzlies and brother Pau purposely taking games off to get himself traded, it's clear that the Grizzlies organization has worn out its welcome with basketball playing Spaniards. Plus, the paella in Memphis stinks (ok, I made that up). The bottom line is don't be surprised if Marc wants out and wants out now. But while Gasol might be unhappy and/or be on the market as a result, Hunter and Kleiza won't be enough to get him, hence where former Nugget Greg Buckner comes into play.

Why Denver Would Do This: Bringing in Gasol is a no-brainer for the Nuggets for several reasons. First, Gasol would fit in perfectly with what the Nuggets really need right now: a low cost, young, tough low post presence. Second, and you'll read this repeatedly as you review the other trade proposals, Gasol's acquisition would allow Nene to focus on just being a power forward, his natural position. And third, Marc would relish going head-to-head against big brother Pau when the Nuggets face off against the Lakers. Reacquiring Buckner - beyond the need to do so for salary purposes - actually makes sense, too. Not only does Buckner know the Nuggets' "system", but his defensive presence would alleviate the need for the Nuggets to re-sign Dahntay. (I'm not assuming for a second that Buckner is the player that Dahntay has become, but there's no way the Nuggets would be able to pay both shooting guards.)

Why Memphis Wouldn't Do This: If you caught ESPN's Chad Ford on his recent appearance on "The B.S. Report with Bill Simmons," he said that Grizzlies "GM" Chris Wallace - as a result of getting fleeced in the Pau Gasol trade - won't make any deals unless it's deemed he is the clear winner. Therefore, Wallace might insist on throwing in salary cancer Marko "Hot Wife, Bad Contract" Jaric in any Marc Gasol trade, rather than Buckner. However, since Jaric's inexcusably high salary would be too rich for the Nuggets blood, I believe Wallace would be amenable to doing this deal with Buckner thrown in, and take back Kleiza to make the salaries match up.

Why Denver Wouldn't Do This: If the Nuggets had to take back Jaric to make it work, forget it. Also, while a Gasol/Buckner for Hunter/Kleiza deal is basically a wash financially in year one, the Nuggets would be on the hook to pay Gasol and Buckner almost $8 million combined in 2010-11, forcing them to move K-Mart before the final year of his contract or they'd really be in tax hell.

Likelihood: 15%

Hunter and Kleiza to the Cavaliers for Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Why Cleveland Would Do This: By acquiring Shaquille O'Neal, the Cavaliers have a $68.3 million cap number for 10 active players, three of whom are named Tarence Kinsey (who?), Darnell Jackson (who?) and Jawad Williams (who?). By jettisoning Ilgauskas' $11.5 million one-year salary and taking Kleiza in the deal, they'd have $5 million to play with plus an extra scorer in Kleiza, something they desperately need.

Why Denver Would Do This: Even though Ilgauskas isn't a banger inside, the Nuggets desperately need a legit seven-foot center to free Nene up to play his natural position of power forward. If Nene could play the four spot healthy for an entire season, he might become a top ten power forward. Moreover, Ilgauskas can reliably hit an open mid-range or even long-range jump shot, something none of the Nuggets current big men can. Having Ilgauskas on board would actually spread the floor, rather than clog up the middle.

Why Cleveland Wouldn't Do This:
Shaquille O'Neal is old and injury prone, and the one-two punch of O'Neal plus Ilgauskas gives Cleveland a great insurance policy on O'Neal and the best center tandem in the NBA.

Why Denver Wouldn't Do This:
Bringing in Ilgauskas would cost Kroenke an additional $5 million, or $10 million total including the luxury tax payment that would come with this deal. Also, Ilgauskas isn't the interior rebounder the Nuggets badly need and you just know Ilgauskas - who's had a long stretch of healthy seasons - is due for an injury-riddled campaign.

Likelihood: 5%


Hunter and/or Kleiza to the Clippers for Marcus Camby

Why the Clippers Would Do This:
This should be pretty obvious. Camby never fit into the Clippers' "system" and the Clippers are committed to Chris Kaman, thanks to his audacious contract, whether they like it or not. Plus, a Camby-for-Hunter straight up deal would save the Clippers almost $4 million. If Kleiza was thrown in, the Clippers would save only $1.25 million, but they would have more depth.

Why Denver Would Do This:
Don't do a double take because, yes, I'm suggesting the Nuggets consider bringing back Marcus Camby. Just think about the positives. First, being in the final year of his contract, you know Camby is going play in almost every game and play hard for one more contract to close out his career. And keep in mind that with reduced minutes, nagging injuries and a bad situation Camby still put up 10.3 ppg, 11.1 rpg and 2.1 bpg last season. Second, he already knows the Nuggets' "system" and intimately knows all the players. Camby even played with Chauncey in Toronto in 1998. Third, as you'll see with all these proposed deals, Camby's presence frees up Nene to play power forward exclusively. Fourth, with Birdman coming back, Camby and Birdman could split the center position with 20-plus minutes apiece, guaranteeing good energy from each when they're on the floor. Fifth, even Camby naysayers have to admit that we were robbed of the Camby-K-Mart-Nene-Melo front line combination that could have done some serious damage in the West had they been given the opportunity to play together consistently, which never happened due to injuries.

Why the Clippers Wouldn't Do This:
Kaman has been injury plagued and given that Camby will be miraculously healthy this season, why trade a solid backup center?

Why the Nuggets Wouldn't Do This:
We heard rumblings on Camby's way out of Denver that he wasn't the selfless, team-first, defensive stopper that he was purported to be. At first I thought this was Nuggets management's way of spinning the trade, but I later heard from reliable sources that Camby allegedly cared more about his stats and his shots than what was best for the team. And the proof that the Nuggets were a better team without Camby was right in front of us all season long in 2008-09, both offensively and defensively. Plus, if Kleiza isn't included Camby would cost the Nuggets $4 million more than Hunter, forcing Kroenke to shell out $8 million to bring him back.

Likelihood: 5%


Hunter and/or Kleiza to the Pacers for Jeff Foster

Why Indiana Would Do This:
To shed even more payroll in advance of the 2010 free agent class becoming available. Foster is owed $6.1 million this season and $6.7 million in 2010-2011. If Kleiza was thrown in, Indiana wouldn't save anything except their reputation for having at least six white players on their team at all times.

Why Denver Would Do This:
Foster isn't your average, every day Stiff. He's actually pretty tough (just ask Melo's hand), can finish around the rim and, like Ilgauskas and Camby, his arrival would free up Nene to play power forward the entire game. Foster certainly wouldn't be afraid to mix it up inside with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan and so on and use his six fouls to their fullest extent. Plus, for next season anyway, Foster makes just $2.3 million more than Hunter.

Why Indiana Wouldn't Do This:
I don't see why Indiana wouldn't do this, actually. They're not making the playoffs next year no matter what (unless they get in a time machine and send themselves back to the 1950s...alright, enough with the white guy jokes) and Hunter comes off the books next year whereas Foster is on the books through 2011.

Why Denver Wouldn't Do This:
Foster wouldn't be the "big time" acquisition the Nuggets are trying to make, plus that $6.7 million owed to him in 2010-2011 - to go along with big raises due to Chauncey, Melo, K-Mart, Nene and J.R. - would further cripple the Nuggets future cap flexibility. Like the proposed Marc Gasol trade above, acquiring Foster would force the Nuggets to move K-Mart before his final contract year kicks off.

Likelihood: 10%

Of the four trades proposed, my absolute favorite would be to acquire Gasol and Buckner for Hunter and Kleiza. If the Nuggets started a front line of Gasol, Nene and Melo to go along with Chauncey and J.R. in the back court with K-Mart, Birdman, Balkman and Lawson (plus Buckner) coming off the bench, you're looking at a championship caliber team and one of the biggest and best rebounding teams in the NBA. The only weakness there - and I don't make light of this - would be three-point shooting. But maybe there will be a Jon Barry-type gunner available for a minimum contract somewhere.

Although each comes with its own salary cap ramifications, all of the above scenarios are good for one simple reason: they enable Nene to move to power forward. While Nene did an admirable job filling in at center for all of 2008-09, he was perpetually in foul trouble, had trouble getting his own shots and the position clearly wore him down as the season went on. If Karl wants the players he already has to improve, moving Nene to the four spot would be a great start.

No matter what, whether it's Gasol, Ilgauskas, Camby or Foster, or an unrestricted free agent like Wallace, Wilcox or Channing Frye (a threesome we'll get to next) the Nuggets need to get bigger if they're to compete for the Western Conference crown in 2010.

They know this. The question is: how much are they willing to pay for it?

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Oh boy...it saddens me that you have lost your mind Andrew.

Camby back in a Nuggets uniform has to be the SINGLE worst suggestion I have EVER heard on this blog or elsewhere for that matter.

The rumors about Camby being a cancer are very true from what I have heard also. Plus, he really showed 2 seasons ago that is completely useless against the Lakers front line. Also, Bird plays virtually the same role, and for much much cheaper.

The best trade scenario of the ones your proposed, and the one that gets us over the top, is the trade for Foster. If Indiana agrees, that is the trade you make. I also like your Gasol idea, but nothing I have heard indicates Memphis is willing to give him up.

Still shaking me head over here at the Camby suggestion though...I lost a little respect for you today :)

by Jason on Jul 1, 2009 3:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Sorry Andrew I disagree completely with every suggestion you have made. Do you really think the Nugs would be better with a starting front line of: one of your suggestions, Nene, and Melo rather than Nene, Kmart, and Melo? No way, after getting out to a 5 and 10 start the Nugs would have to go back to last years starting line up. Then they'd be stuck paying more salary because they have a big stiff coming off the bench that just takes minutes away from Nene and Kmart. What I don't think you see is that Nene is the piece that doesn't fit on this team for the near term. Granted, it would be nice to hold onto him because of his age, but if the Nugs choose to they are not going to win next year unless they pay an extra 20 million over the cap to add one of those guys you first mentioned in your post. They probably won't have a shot two years from now either as they aren't going to get top talent at center in exchange for an expiring Kmart contract. How long does one give the Nugs MVP7 before he loses a step or two and is no longer effective? If the nugs want to win they have to go a lot bigger than Gasol, Ilgauskus, or Foster. They have to trade Nene for a stud big, it is the only answer.

by Gasus on Jul 1, 2009 3:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

@ Gasus -

Regarding trading Nene, while I agree that dealing Nene to bring back an impact "big" - a la Bogut or Okafor - is the only way to do it, I don't believe losing Nene for such a player makes the Nuggets much better than they are now. Moreover, I believe Nene being moved to the four - even for a non-impact big like Gasol or Foster - will expand his game greatly, making the Nuggets better overall.

And while I don't begrudge you at all or condemning my trade suggestions, I didn't see you suggest better trade alternatives. What better trades did you have in mind where the dollars work, too?

by Andrew on Jul 1, 2009 4:36 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gasus we get it. You want Rasheed Wallace for Nene. I tip my hat to your persistance sir.

The dissapointment in this really is that Steven Hunter was an athletic big man who played 20 minutes a game for the 76ers when we received him in the trade for Andre Miller. Pretty good shot blocker too. "A" player material or not, using him for 20 minutes a game would allow us to rotate him with Nene and Birdman. That would give Nene more minutes at the 4 and would create some much needed length for us.

I don't see a lot of realistic options out there unless someone wants to take his contract off of our hands.

by My3Cents on Jul 1, 2009 4:54 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Adrew,

Stoudemire, Wallace, or Odom would work just fine. Nugs get rid of Nene's 10 million contract and pay less to Wallace, similar to Odom, and I am not too sure with Stoudemire but if the Nugs are going into the luxury tax Stoudemire would be a hell of a guy to spend it on. The Suns may be looking to move Stoudemire so the Nugs would have to throw in a draft pick plus Nene and they should be able to get him. Wallace and a future first round draft pick could come through a rebuilding team that likes Nene's talents (this move would save cap too). Odom is in a good situation for the Nugs too as the contracts will probably match up so some rebuilding team could sign Odom and ship him over to Denver. All three of these players play much better inside defense than Nene and all three will help the Nugs spread the court on offense so they can get to the bucket where they are most effective. None of what I am saying is because I don't like Nene. I actually like his personality and his inside offense. He just doesn't fit on the Nuggets team. He is by far the most moveable piece as he carries high value and his contract is somewhat reasonable. His size and defensive ability make him the piece the Nugs absolutely have to move if they want a championship. The Nugs aren't going to get anything for Kmart so the only option is Nene (it is tough for me too as I would rather it was the other way around so the Nugs could contend for years). On top of this, I am one to think that Kmart is more valuable to this team now than Nene is (for 2 or 3 years down the road I would say the opposite). Kmart is one of the best defenders in the NBA and he along with 7 and Bird give the Nuggets their heart. Kmart is a must because he can handle a big or a small forward. Look at the NO series. Without Kmart on David West we could have been watching a seven game series. Remember, David West was an All Star. Lastly, the Nugs best chance to win is with a fully powered CB. I don't think he has more than 2 to 3 years left being at full power so they have to make a move that will give them a good chance to win now.

by Gasus on Jul 1, 2009 5:29 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with My3cents, no one has given Hunter the benifit of the doubt. He made it to the NBA so it's apparent that he has some ability. He was injured.
It was just yesterday when everyone was calling for Kmart's ass. People were saying all he was good for was to draw a check and block cap space. Last year he proved himself.
What's to say that Hunter can't do the same thing? It's on GK to go to Hunter like he did Nene and talk to him. Tell him that he's part of the team and we need him to produce.
Since GK is probably to egostistical to so then CB7 would have to bring him into the fold.
I think it's cold to ward off Hunter just because he's been injured. Let the guy prove he's a dud like AC has proven he's a dud.
AND to bring back Camby is about the same as re-signing AC. Neither should happen.

by samIam on Jul 1, 2009 5:47 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I am with Sam. Yes Hunter has done absolutely nothing in a Nuggets uni, but that is because he has been injured. For 3.7 mil I think he could give us some quality minutes. I don't know much about him but I do remember him playing really well in Phoenix a while back. If he could get that form back we will be in good shape.

by Goldennugget on Jul 1, 2009 6:33 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

the gasol trade is a GREAT idea.

i think the readers are overlooking just how injured hunter is. he could be done permanently. i just looked it up and he played 19 GAMES two years ago and ZERO last year and he has cronic knee problems.

i'm sorry fellow stiffs but if you guys think hunter is our answer at center you're dillusional!!!!

by maxie miner on Jul 1, 2009 6:44 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Attn JASON:

NOTHING you've heard indicates Memphis is willing to give up Gasol? How about the $50 million the Grizzlies are offering for David Lee?!

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

by AD on Jul 1, 2009 6:47 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice post Andrew

Hmmm...... this just keeps getting better and better. lol.
Well I think the nuggets are a great team with what they have got. Its seems to me that the nuggets need one really good pick up ah la Ron Artest or Shawn Marion. Both "can" play the power forward spot, and either of them would for sure put the nuggets over the top. But, Andrew is also right. The nuggets need a center, and a good to average one could do the trick. This off season we will see if the nuggets are going for it all, or going to be the third best team in the west.

This week is going to be big for nuggets fans everywhere!
GO NUGGETS!!!

by Agent Fisher on Jul 1, 2009 6:53 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Props to the blog's author for figuring all this out. I was exhausted just reading it! Count me in the pro-Gasol camp. That trade would be a steal. And with the Grizz trading for Zach Randolph tonight, this might just happen.

Lightning struck last year with your AI/Chauncy prediction. Could it strike twice?

by Anonymous on Jul 1, 2009 11:15 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Duh, yeah! If you're injured you don't play. Just like Nene didn't play for a couple of years.
And the gist of this article people is to have a C so Nene can play PF

by samiam on Jul 2, 2009 12:45 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nicely done Andrew. I like the Memphis deal the best. Considering those clowns just picked up Z-Bo it nixes the idea of bringing back Camby's expiring. I think that ship has sailed in Denver and should not be revisited. This Memphis deal now gives me hope that we might have a shot of 2 of their players I'm coveting - Marc Gasol and Hakeem Warrick.

We need to get rid of Hunter somehow. I just can't think of a team that is tanking for 2010 who could give us a usable piece for next year. Kleiza and Hunter to NY for a re-signed David Lee?

by runningdonut on Jul 2, 2009 1:25 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

i honestly dont' see a reason to even talk about sheed for nene. the age difference is just too huge to concider this. nene,jr, and melo are the nuggets future. sheed will only have 1-2 years left.
and i would love gasol or foster. or channing frye would be great as well.

by nuggs0611 on Jul 2, 2009 1:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The Grizzlies traded for Z Randolph.
This would probably make them more amenable to a trade of Gasol.

by Julian from Australia on Jul 2, 2009 2:32 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Fprget about Hunter, doctors are talking like he may never play again. I think the best move is to get a SERVICABLE (meaning GK will play him) backup center. Remember the post Andrew wrote about the Lakers being too tall for the Nuggets? It's more realistic to think about free agents such as Mikki Moore, Zaza Pachulia etc. Gortat would be on the list, but it looks like the Rockets may break the bank going after him since Yao is out indefinitely.
A recent Denver Post article said that Kroenke was OK with starting the season over the cap. The trick is where you are at the end of the season.

Thursty

by Anonymous on Jul 2, 2009 7:03 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gasus,

I cannot believe you are still at it with the Wallace crap. He's old, going down hill, a cancer, and shoots the ball way way way way too much. He's the antithesis of a playoff center or PF.

Andrew, you're right in saying Nene gets worn down at center but that is because he's a physical brute who plays hard in the post. He also wears down the other teams big. When he doesn't have to cover two guys who are both taller than him he's and excellent playoff center, a banger who doesn't shoot too much. (I know we'd all kind of like him to shoot more.)

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 7:25 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You mentioned that Nene could become a top ten PF if he moved to that spot. He already is a top 10 C. Ahead of him is

Howard
Duncan
Al Jefferson
Yao Ming
O'Neal
Pau Gasol

The next group

Bynum
Nene
Biedrins
Camby

As we all know Shaq and Duncan are just about done. Ming is having serious problems. Biedrins and Camby are too skinny for high level playoff basketball. So that leaves top centers, WHO ARE TOUGH AND PHYSICAL, (Gasus) that are good now and will be for a while at...

Jefferson
Howard
Pau Gasol
Bynum
Nene

All of this to say one thing. Center is the most difficult position to fill in the league. I think the Nuggets should instead be focusing on bringing in another PF/C who can take some stress off Nene and bang in the playoffs. In that light Foster would probably be a decent pickup.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 7:36 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Do NOT trade Nene. He is getting better each year. Nearly led the league in FG% last year, was tough inside both on defense and offense. We have waited for years to see Nene come around and people on this site want to trade him...for Rasheed Wallace?! That's as bad an idea as bringing back Marcus Camby.

Andrew-
Here's an idea an let me know what you think:
I heard Antonio McDyss wants out of Detroit. Since he's already going against our Salary Cap, would it be worth trying to bring him to Denver?

by csprings_tommy on Jul 2, 2009 7:36 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gasus,

I'm sorry I lost all respect for your opinions when you said that Stoudemire, Odom and Wallace all play better interior defense than Nene. That is blatantly untrue. All three are renowned for their less than passionate approach to D. All three have been criticized throughout their careers for being ball hungry offensive players who don't play defense. This is not my opinion it is common knowledge. You want to get rid of Nene, a top 10 center this year, possibly a top five center in a year or two for cronically injured or over the hill players. Unreal. I cannot believe I'm hearing this.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 7:47 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

The idea of trading Nene is silly. He's a young not-quite-all-star who can play well on offense and defense as both a center and a power forward. His contract is pretty reasonable relative to his production. Guys like that don't grow on trees. The fact that Denver needs beef up its front court in order to contend with the size of teams like the Lakers, Cavs, and Magic makes trading Nene doubly silly. You don't chop off a perfectly good hand to replace it with a strange one that may or may not work as well as the original.

by CommonSense on Jul 2, 2009 8:27 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Andrew,

Sorry, been out of town for a while so I've got a lot to say. First off thanks for the research and informed material. Secondly here is the short list of guys I'd like to see the Nugs pursue.

Speights in Philly had a fantastic rookie year.

We give up Hunter and Kleiza for Speights and Dalembert. Philly might do it to go way under the cap for next summer, plus they already have Brand. Speights is a tough banger at 6-10 to work with Nene and relieve him when necessary.

JaVale McGee in Washington is also gonna be good. At 7-1 he's got the height to contend with Bynum and Gasol. Don't know why Wiz would give him up though.

Darkhorse. Craig Smith in Minny. He's 25 and 6-8 and makes 2.5 mil. A huge offensive rebounder who gets an incredible 6 layups/dunks per game. With Al and Love Minny has too many short PF's. We should be able to get him for a bargain. The biggest issue is conditioning. If we could give him new hope here maybe he turns his career around.

Finally Marc Gasol is the best fit for all the reasons noted already. I still believe, as noted earlier, that he is worth Jaric's ridiculous contract if that is what it takes. His rookie year numbers were also fantastic.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 8:27 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thursty has a good point.

I could see Kroenke starting the season well over the cap and holding off the decision to shed payroll by the trade deadline. This would allow him to crunch the numbers. More wins equals more money. If the team's success leads to higher ticket and merchandise sales, and this offsets the cap penalties, he could then decide to eat the tax.

by MJKeenan on Jul 2, 2009 9:00 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I love all of your trade suggestions. I particularly like the Gasol and Foster trade proposals. My one fear on Kleiza is that he is going to go to Toronto and the Nuggets won't match the offer. If this happens, the trades that include Kleiza are all off the table. If we lose Kleiza for nothing, we've lost one of our most tradeable assets.

by Brian on Jul 2, 2009 9:48 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe that Kmart is as impossible to trade as everybody seems to think he is.

Wouldn't Indiana consider trading Foster, Murphy, and Tinsley for Kmart and Hunter? They get rid of Tinsley while saving $4M this year and $7M next year when Hunter comes off the books. Meanwhile, Denver adds size, versatility and depth to their frontcourt and potentially acquires a very good backup point guard at a cost of only $4M in salary this year (next year is another story, but everyone involved will be expiring).

What about trading Kmart to Charlotte for Okafor and Diop (or possibly Diaw and Diop)? This move trims a lot of long term salary off of Charlotte's books. Denver could add incentive with Hunter and the Iverson trade exception (or a Kleiza S/T) to give them immediate relief from Bell, Mohammed, or maybe even Diaw's contracts.

Point being Kmart can be traded for useful pieces depending upon how much additional salary Denver is willing to take on over the next few years.

by CommonSense on Jul 2, 2009 10:19 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Fantastic Post.

I like all your suggestions except Camby. As you mentioned, it's already been proven that the team is better without Camby. His focus on blocks hurts defensive rebounding and he takes too many of his twenty minute long shots.

Gasus- Stoudemire plays out of position at center the way Nene does, and he doesn't play defense. No way the Lakers would ever trade Odom to Denver. Pure Fantasy. Wallace isn't really a center, but could be a good addition if they can't get anyone better. He's in serious decline.

I like the Gasol idea best, but let's see the list of free agents first. I think Gortat is probably the best of that bunch, and none are as good as Gasol...

by KarlSucks on Jul 2, 2009 11:58 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Again with the Nene trade talks!? I know he's a valuable, movable player, but c'mon! We've patiently waited for him to be healthy, and he didn't let us down. I would hate this organization if they got rid of Nene for some stiff.

If the Grizz are eager to get rid of Marc then the Nuggets brass should do whatever it takes to get him PERIOD. If for some reason things are impossible to work out, then Foster would be good for 20-25 minutes of paint play too. But the thought of having a real center in Denver (the 1st since Mutombo even) makes me giggle like a school girl. TEE HEE.

Let's go Nuggets front office! Bring us some good news this off-season.

by Joelsopinion on Jul 2, 2009 12:13 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Odom is a free agent people. Glad you all think Nene plays good inside defense, LOL! And he helps spread the offense too so the Nugs can get to the bucket right? Nugs are a slashing team and a PF/C that spreads the floor on offense would be much more productive than Nene. You guys aren't tired of him fouling out or nearly fouling out of seamingly every game? You aren't tired of watching him flop every time a player drives at him? You aren't tired of watching him reach on guards dribbling the ball and getting the foul called on him? You aren't tired of watching his fancy little layups get blocked when he should dunk agaist LA?

So someone said Stoudemire isn't a better fit than Nene? Good god give me a break. Stoudemire is one of the best players in the game period.

Also, some dingaling thinks the Lakers would have to trade Lamar Odom, only problem here is Lamar Odom is a free agent. According to the LA Times he is seeking a $10,000,000 contract, very similar to Nene. Who kicked who's ass in the WCF last year? I am pretty sure Odom had his way with Nene and the Nuggets front line.

Enough said about Wallace. Looks like which ever team he chooses will win the title next year (as long as he stays away from Dallas). He's going to one of the big contenders and will be another monster hassle for the Nuggets next year.

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 2:03 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW: Does anyone think Odom likes coming off the bench? Dude had to swallow his pride so he didn't cause a rift in LA. Perfect fit in Denver.

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 2:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

antithesis with a big ring on his finger, LOL!

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 3:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gasus,

Yes, Odom is a free agent. As you mention, he wants $10 million. The nuggets are over the cap, so they only have the mid-level, which they will use on Birdman. So they only way they could get Odom would be a sign and trade. Sorry I didn't spell out all the details for you the first time, thought you understood what was going on well enough to figure it out.

Nene gets in foul trouble guarding centers because he's not a center. Let him guard power forwards and see how much better he does on the fouls.

Stoudemire would be an upgrade over Nene on the offensive end, but he's still a power forward, and what they need is a center. Trade for Stoudemire and play him at center and what have you solved? The team is still getting abused by all the teams with real centers.

If a team that signs Wallace wins, it won't be because he starts for them and plays 30 minutes. He's a role player at this point.

by KarlSucks on Jul 2, 2009 3:03 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

If the Nugs had Odom and the Lakers Nene in the WCF's in May it would have been even worse than it was.

Wallace needs a team with a strong head coach, (not the Nuggets) a group of strong vets, (we only have Chauncey) and a team that doesn't have a bunch of impressionable youngsters to screw up (not the Nuggets). We want JR, Melo, Nene and CB to be taking the shots.

Finally this is going to probably be Wallace's last contract. We would only want him for maybe three years and he is going to want a contract for longer than that.

If we could get him for less than 3 mil a year he might be worth it. The guy even knew he was in a contract year last year and all his numbers still went down. Remember Shareef Abdur Rahim. This has that scenario written all over it. Talented player with no motor with a long albatross contract that ruined a team. He has his ring, he's only looking for a payday that he can collect on with minimum effort.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 3:10 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nene doesn't go to LA, he goes to a rebuilding team.

I don't think it was KarlSucks who said "the Lakers aren't letting go of Odom"

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 3:23 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Something else. Nene got called on a lot of fouls this year that could easily have gone the other way. The WCF's were a perfect example. By next year he will be a recognized star and a lot of those calls are going to start going the other way. He has all the tools to be a great defender and already is very good. He has often been mentioned as the best defender on Duncan and he's only a perception shift by the refs and a little experience from being a top notch on the ball defender. All the tools are there as well as a burgeoning attitude. Remeber, his playing time has been sporadic. With consistent time he has the potential to be a top five center.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 3:25 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

You are crazy if you think Abdur Rahim was ever in the same league as Wallace. You are talking about one of the most talented players to play the game over the last 20 years. Yes, he is older, but he is still tough, has a great jump shot, great low post defense, and a serious offensive post game. The Nugs aren't going to win after 7 loses a step and he probably only has 2 to 3 more years left of effective basketball. Wallace, Odom, or Stoudemire would work perfect. Some would suggest rookies, unproven players, and proven stiffs. Recipe for a championship is a proven vet. Stoudemire would bring so much offense to the Nugs, they would be practically unstoppable. In no way is he a let down on D compared to Nene either. Look at Melon, his first year attempting to play defense was last year. Why? Addition of one of the best coaches in the game in CB7. If you think Stoudemire's defensive effort is suspect then just put him with 7 and he'll motivate him to play. Plus, you can't really evaluate Stoudemire's defense because his whole career has been spent on a team that takes pride in not playing defense. Any fool that says a Stoudemire for Nene trade isn't like a god send just doesn't get it and never will.

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 3:34 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It was KarlSucks. Geese, you keep talking shit about that when you said it. You even said "pure fantasy" then you go on to use the mid level exception explanation which make no sense in a sign and trade for Nene. You need to take a deep breath and think before you write.

by Gasus on Jul 2, 2009 3:53 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's one last fling to try and convince you Gasus.

Wallace is ranked by Hollinger, the stats guru on ESPN as the 40th best PF in the league. 40th. His companions at this statistical point in his career are Darius Songaila and Jason Thompson.

He's the 3rd best PF/C on his own team behind Maxiell and McDyess. Both have better PER's than Wallace.

He got zero offensive rebounds in the playoffs this year.

All of these things are not my opinion, they are the statistical facts put together by the best in the business. This is not to say he doesn't have the talent to be good for another year or two. However it has always been Wallace's head not his talent that has been the problem. I believe the numbers clearly show he's not worth the risk.

We've all been enticed by a players potential. However at some point they rank themselves. Wallace has clearly done so.

by NugzD on Jul 2, 2009 4:22 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gentlemen. As I understand it, if Hunter cannot play we would be entitled to a medical exemption and his figure would not go against the cap. That would be good. And since we have this large ($9.5MM???) trade exception, we could trade a Linas Kleiza ($2.7MM) for Marc Gasol ($3.2MM) and take on Jaric's wife, er contract ($7.1MM). It would fit and still leave us with $2MM of trade exception left. This of course assumes that the Grizz are willing to use ZRO (Zach Randolph) as an F/C rather than purely as a forward.

by My3Cents on Jul 2, 2009 5:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Gasus,

I said the mid-level exemption was the only available tool that the nuggets having for signing free agents because you kept saying that Odom could sign as a free agent.

I was saying that a straight trade of Odom to Denver was pure fantasy. It is. You mention another team would sign Odom and trade him to Denver. Why would they do this, out of the goodness of their heart? So they could get access to an injury prone big man and a future late first round pick for the same money as Odom? Sounds like more fantasy to me.

If you want to talk about trading Nene for a big man, come up with a scenario with actual teams and actual names that might work for both teams, like Andrew did. "Gee, I think the Nuggets should trade Nene and a pack of gum for Lebron James." I'll bet your the guy who keeps offering bench warmers for super stars in the fantasy league.

by KarlSucks on Jul 2, 2009 5:04 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Stoudamire should be allowed to wear a bull-fighter's uni... he plays that ole! defense better than anyone. And that's not going to change at this point in his career. That said, I'd still take him, but not at the expense of Nene. Why, you ask?

We all need to remember that in the WCF, it was our OFFENSE, not our defense, that was completely lost out there vs. LA. We played fine defense really, we just couldn't score on them and had no set plays.

Can we all collectively see this? Nene WAS lofting up some of those gay ass finger rolls as Gasus pointed out correctly, K-Mart was hoisting line drive baseline jumpers, Chauncey was cold and hounded by LA into a poor performance, Melo and JR were good, but we collectively lost confidence offensively and reeked of desperation on that end of the court in the last two games.

This is simply put: Karl's fault.

NugzD, you have made some really excellent points... props dude.

Gasus, nobody on here WANTS to hate on you, but you come across as a dick... for lack of a better term. Sorry! You actually make sound arguments, but you hard line a little too much and alienate (at least you did me), but I'm not against kissing and making up... except for the kissing part. I'm over it already actually. You are an intelligent dude, just maybe try to voice your opinions without the confrontational aspect to it homie! Otherwise, you'll never make it as Andrew's running mate for political office! LOL

So I guess my thoughts in summation are; there are +/- to each guy mentioned. Some of us are just seeing more of the + about ___ player, where others see the - and vice versa. This is a healthy thing. Let's just remember we're all here for a common cause fellas...

That said, Andrew, you've got a thread for the Stiff's Topic hall of fame on your hands here it seems.

by Eric K on Jul 2, 2009 6:10 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I keep reading this stuff where Hunter won't ever play again. If that was the case wouldn't the Nuggets have known last week? And wouldn't they be emphatic to the point someone would know who they are shopping for. I mean one of those so called analyst that report for SI, ESPN, or even Andrew.

by samiam on Jul 2, 2009 7:20 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

KarlSucks,

You don't think a rebuilding team like Memphis, Milwaukee, OKC, Sacramento, Golden State, New York, New Jersey, etc would want a guy like Nene rather than Odom? Nene turns 27 this year while Odom turns 30. Plus throwing in a draft pick makes it even more intriguing for a rebuilding team.

by Gasus on Jul 3, 2009 9:06 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Are you trying to compare Lamar Odom to Lebron? I hope you are just trying to call me stupid. Well, you should look at the stats for last year. Not even close, Nene trumps Odom for sure. However, Odom would be more effective for the Nugs because he is better on D, rebounding, and his outside shot and ballhandling ability is much better. On top of that, the Nugs may be able to steal him from LA because they have the trade exception money and there "may" be a ceiling to LA's spending for next year. They may have to offer him 12 million or more but he will be solid for a few years to come. I'd rather the Nugs go into the luxury tax spending money on a true stud. Also, Nene's trade value may never be better as he just came off his first season without any significant injuries. If he gets injured again next year then the Nugs may never get anything for him.

by Gasus on Jul 3, 2009 9:52 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

As far a dreaming, I think the Stoudemire trade is a dream. I really think there is no way Phoenix should let go of him but it looks to me like he is being shopped. We're talking about one of the top 5 PF/C in the game. I actually think he likes C more than PF (and that would make him a top 3 center behind Howard and Gasol with Yao being out for next year) as was evidenced by adding Shaq in Phoenix. The reason they lost so much ground with Shaq is that Stoudemire was forced to play out of position at PF or at minimum Shaq clogged up the lane so Stoudemire had a tougher time getting to the bucket. I could see you talking shit about this one but the Odom thing is pretty rediculous.

by Gasus on Jul 3, 2009 10:01 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

When did I say the Nugs could just sign Odom? Dude, I said think before you write.

by Gasus on Jul 3, 2009 10:07 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

What's the number one weakness of any team with an abundance of size? It's simple: Screen offenses. That said, here's my proposed trade:

Denver Nuggets send Steven Hunter and Linas Kleiza to the Detroit Pistons for Rip Hamilton.

Why Detroit would do it: Hamilton's extension is the devil. It's burdening their books so badly at this point that any benefit a team could provide would be considered a fair trade, just so they could get back under cap for Bosh in '10. Hamilton is also reportedly unhappy, and if you're paying Gordon starter money and traded your PG to clear room for Stuckey, Hamilton is probably the most expendable of the three.

Why Denver would do it: Hamilton and Anthony's games were made for each other. Why do you think Dumars wanted Anthony so badly? Plus Billups and Hamilton won a title together in Detroit. Hamilton can actually guard Kobe Bryant, which is something Dauntay Jones has yet to do. Hamilton brings great tenacity on the boards and decent size for a shooting guard as well. Financially, Hamilton gets out of contract the same year as Billups / KMart, so all of the big money can come off of the books at the same time.

Why Detroit won't do it: Dumars is in love with a three-guard setup, so he's reportedly reluctant to move Hamilton. Plus he probably doesn't want to get beaten up by the media for trading his two stalwarts to the exact same team in consecutive years. Plus Hamilton is still a top-flight player, and they probably want to see who the coach is going to be before shipping a bunch of people around.

Why Denver won't do it? No idea. Hamilton is due to make about 9 million, but with the 2 million you save from not needing Jones, the 2 million you save from Kleiza and the 4 million you save from Steven Hunter, you about break even. Plus it makes them a better team, and it gives them more consistency on the books. Hunter wasn't playing anyway, Jones was a terrible offensive liability, and Kleiza is leaving in a year anyway. I'd rather have Hamilton for two years than Kleiza for 1. Final roster would be something along the lines of Billups / Hamilton / Anthony / Martin / Nene with a bench of J.R., Birdman, Balkman and Lawson. I'm in love with that team on paper.

by Nick C. on Jul 4, 2009 3:20 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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