Is Stan Van Gundy the Bizarro George Karl?...

by Andrew Feinstein on Jun 10, 2009 9:46 AM MDT

One coach paces up and down the sidelines with an unrelenting fervor from the opening tipoff until the final buzzer sounds. He works the refs continuously to support his players and gets calls thrown his way in the fourth quarter. Instead of only talking to his players during timeouts, he barks at them every chance he gets: during free throw breaks, stoppages in play and throughout extended TV timeouts. He also draws up intricate set plays throughout the game, throwing the opposition into confusion as picks are set and the ball circles around the court, going inside then outside and back inside and outside again until the open man is found. And he constantly - albeit with a whiny tone - reassures his players that they can get the job done regardless of the score. And when the game is over, even if his players are to blame for mistakes made during it, he lays the blame squarely on himself to protect his players.

The other coach sits quietly, almost peacefully still throughout much of the game. He can't be bothered to work the refs at any point during the game and rolls his eyes when his players make mistakes rather than engage them immediately to curtail whatever the issue is. He rarely calls timeouts unless it's absolutely necessary to do so. He almost never draws up set plays (including on inbounds plays), instead letting his players operate in a free flow offense that often gets stuck or stalls in a half court setting. And during his postgame press conferences, he either lays the blame on his players or on circumstances allegedly out of his control, and never places the blame on himself.

This is the dichotomy that is Orlando Magic head coach Stan Van Gundy and Denver Nuggets head coach George Karl.

And yet these two have much in common, as well (beyond their gait).

Each unquestionably has a great passion for the game (have you seen them in those postgame press conferences? You'd think they'd have run over their family dog backing out of the driveway). Each is in the rare class of coaches who can resurrect a franchise from a lottery denizen to a 50-win perennial playoff participant. Each allegedly works tirelessly behind the scenes with their assistant coaches looking for an edge before each contest. And each has paid his dues the right way after being foolishly counted out to get to where they are.

But while watching the Orlando Magic square off against the Los Angeles Lakers in Games 2 and 3 of the NBA Finals, I couldn't help but wish Karl had a little more Van Gundy in him. Constantly pleading with the refs, yelling at players and running up and down the sidelines and placing the blame on yourself more often than blaming your players doesn't automatically make you a great coach (it should be noted that the Lakers Phil Jackson is the most passive of all NBA coaches and has a long history of blaming his players in the media, and yet he has nine championship rings and will likely have ten by the end of next week). But Karl could stand to do a lot more of those things.

Even if Karl had worked the refs more furiously throughout the Western Conference Finals - notably Game 5 when the whistle was overwhelmingly in the Lakers favor in the second half - the Nuggets probably wouldn't have won. The Lakers were and are the better team. And if Kobe Bryant could have ditched his Shaquille O'Neal-from-the-free-throw-line impersonation last night, Van Gundy's Magic would likely be down 0-3 in the NBA Finals.

But if every possession "counts more" in the postseason, so does every coaching maneuver, as noted by a couple favorable calls and non-calls that went the Magic's way in the crucial final minutes of last night's Game 3 in addition to a slew of great plays crafted by Van Gundy for the second game in a row.

As I've stated on this blog numerous times throughout the 2008-09 season, Karl deserves credit and congratulations for steering the Nuggets to a franchise best 54-win season and the franchise's third Western Conference Finals appearance. And the Nuggets didn't just appear in the conference finals, but made a good fight out of it by being competitive in four-and-a-half of the six games.

But I believe it's a fair question to ask: had George Karl put forth a Stan Van Gundy-type performance throughout the Western Conference Finals, would he be meeting his Bizarro self in the NBA Finals instead of watching Phil Jackson snooze his way to championship number 10?

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Karl deserves no credit. He causes most of the problems the team has. He is the reason that fans hate on JR and Kenyon about their attitudes. Do you realize the playoffs were set up for the Lakers to win? Someone has to do something about the referees and a guy that does nothing will not change the obvious favoritism LA receives. Also, GK falls in love with some really bad rotations and players. Namely, AC who cost the Nuggets 5 or more wins this year plus 2 in the playoffs. How can he not play Balkman against the bigger Mavericks and Lakers?

Also, it is funny to me that you think the Magic got the benefit of the whistle late in the game last night. Really funny actually. The game was so one sided in LA's favor it is a miracle the Magic won even though they shot 62 percent from the floor. The whistle is what made the game close last night, period. Just two examples of completely pathetic calls would be when Kobe dove through the double team in the fourth (when the Lakers were down 8 or so) and the refs somehow decided to bail him out rather than call a travel or double dribble, and also the one you see on ESPN all day where Howard tied him up when Kobe was driving on him and instead of calling the jump ball or a play on with the strip, the stripes call a foul on Howard. Both of these calls were absolutely ridiculous and late in the game last night. How about Lewis's drive to the bucket when Gasol jumps into him while he is shooting causing the shot to go off behind the back board?

Also, why don't you say anything about the obvious missed call on a goaltending by Gasol on Lee's inbound play at the end of game 2? Rules are rules and the referees call that goal tend on Howard and Bird every chance they get no matter the situation in the game. Series should be 2 to 1 Orlando in a just world. A passive attitude from Karl isn't going to change the way referees call biased games in favor of more marketable teams.

George Karl and Stan Vangundy can't even be mentioned in the same sentence when you are talking quality coaches. GK alienates his players and causes rifts. How many times have you seen Nuggets players walking off the court the last couple years with disgusted/frustrated looks on their face because GK subbed them out for AC at a crucial point of the game, only for the team to go down losing because AC turned the ball over a couple times or missed a couple wide open shots?

by Gasus on Jun 10, 2009 1:57 PM MDT reply actions

I believe it is often in the players best interest to shut up and play. It is nearly impossible for them to do so when their coach won't stand up for them. On any sort of close call the coach should let the refs know he thinks they made a mistake. On obvious calls, fine, shut up. If it's close they need to be told clearly that they screwed up.

Karl has obviously taken a calmer approach to life. I don't think he needs to sacrifice that to work the refs. A coach doesn't have to be beet-red livid to let the refs know he disagrees with their calls. Some coaches in the NBA are clearly acting when arguing with refs and they still get some calls.

You might be right on this one Gasus.

by NugzD on Jun 10, 2009 3:02 PM MDT reply actions

If ever I'd agree with Gasus it's now. GK would do this team wonders if he went back to "Furious George". Instead we get the poor man's Zen Master. I've disliked the NBA's approach at marketing for some time now. I'm really tired of having the Lakers on every damn news and sports cast. every blog, and website swings on the Lakers and I hate it so. On some level I have to wonder if "working the refs" would have done anything to counter the favoritism.

But if nothing else Karl should be let go for his "coaching" in the WCF. And AC has to go.

by Joelsopinion on Jun 10, 2009 4:30 PM MDT reply actions

Good post Gasus.
Fire George Karl
Don't resign AC
GK I agree shouldn't be mention in the same sentence with SVG.
A perfect example of how superior SVG is to GK was illustrated when they showed him talking to Rafer Alston telling him how well he was playing. Would or could GK do something like that? Maybe to his bi tch AC but she's it.
I remember reading that some thought GK should have been coach of the year. Yeah, Right!

by SamIam on Jun 10, 2009 8:56 PM MDT reply actions

The season's over...why keep doing it?

I'll be ready by next season's game 1.

by john on Jun 11, 2009 12:25 AM MDT reply actions

good luck on getting GK fired, thats probably not going to happen after they went to the WCF.

by Anonymous on Jun 11, 2009 9:33 AM MDT reply actions

Great read Andrew, although I disagree that the Lakers would have won even if we had a better coach. As seen in these playoffs specifically from buzzer-beaters to near game winning in-bounds plays, coaching can win you games and even series. Stan Van almost won a game off an in-bounds play while we lost a game off an in-bounds play. Both were obviously due to the level of coaching and effort put in by each coach. Karl no longer has a passion for coaching. Maybe he does, but it isn't apparent, and what good does that do you when your players look to you every timeout for answers? I wonder if he heard the statement from former USC men's' basketball coach Tim Floyd this past week?

Anyways, there is no doubt in my mind that if we had a more motivated George Karl we would have had at least a 50% better chance of winning the series, and when the series is decided in 6 games that can really mean a lot. I still maintain the idea that Chauncey saved Karl's ass this year, and he was the one who did all the coaching. In fact, it's not an idea, it's a known fact. I still also think that Karl should be fired after the performances of the 4th quarter of game 5 and the entire performance of game 6. Realize, we were tied 2-2 in the WCFs and could have even been ahead and then proceeded to play the worst ball of the entire season from the 4th quarter of game 5 on. That is beyond inexcusable. Also, realize that we have an extremely talented team. We have a Finals MVP, the 2nd best SF in the league, a near 6th man of the year, the 2nd leading shot blocker in the NBA, one of the best defenders in the NBA and arguably one of the top 5 centers in the league. Not to mention we were the 2nd seed in the West. We were supposed to be where we were!!! And there was no reason we couldn't have beat the Lakers. Instead we rolled over and died when it mattered most. Vintage Karl. We will never win a title with him as our coach, guaranteed.

by Goldennugget on Jun 11, 2009 1:54 PM MDT reply actions

GK will stick around. There's plenty to criticize but look at his track record. He made an immediate impact when he got hired and increased the season record each of the last 3 years. I do think he should have done more with the rosters we had, but those teams were flawed in much worse ways than bad coaching. Look at Phil Jackson, he rarely stands up or speaks and is getting fatter like George.

Firing GK and getting a new coach would stifle the franchise just as they are making some progress. All we need to do is add a little more talent and let Chauncey show us the way.

Also, Kenyon Martin is NOT one of the best defenders in the NBA. Yes, he's no longer worthless but that doesn't he's not entirely expendable and would be long gone were it not for his outrageous contract.

by runningdonut on Jun 11, 2009 2:23 PM MDT reply actions

Runningdonut,

I think you should check yourself into a psych ward. Nugs knocked out every year in the first round but this last year. Why weren't they knocked out this year? Uh, maybe because they added a player coach in Chauncey Billups. Just what the Nuggets have needed for years, a coach! You are insane if you think the Nugs are better off with Karl. Also, you are insane for thinking Kmart isn't one of the best defenders in the game. LOL!!! He shuts down about every player he defends, strips the ball from the best players in the game, defesive rebounds, and plays the best pick and roll defense in the game, period. He is an intimidator that puts 100 percent effort in every time on the defesive end. He is the reason the Nuggets walked past the Hornets and Mavericks. What did the all star David West do in round one? Who was guarding David West? Dirk may have scored a lot but not much over his season average against primarily single coverage from Kenyon. All year he saw double teams and teams didn't hold his scoring much lower than the Nugs with one guy in the playoffs. How about when Kmart threw Dirk into the stantion in Game 1 of round 2? Do any of the other Nugs have the balls to send that message? I don't think so. Also, Kmart showed up pretty big time against LA, unlike most of the rest of the Nuggets team, especially the coach and his butt buddy Anthony Cunter.

by Gasus on Jun 11, 2009 4:24 PM MDT reply actions

BTW,

GK's immidiate impact came in the form of new players signed. That was part of the deal for him to sign. LOL!!!!

by Gasus on Jun 11, 2009 4:26 PM MDT reply actions

Runningdonuts?
Whatever, however GK being out of the picture will not cause the team any grief what so ever. As Goldennugget stated the Nuggets would be a far better team without him.
BTW excellent rant GN
Your passion for getting rid of GK is right up there where it should be. I don't know about the others that don't want to hold him accountable for his inept coaching ability.
He's accient, washed up, and is a has been. He should be out there with Hurdle. And get rid of that UNFAIRLY DERIDED AC.(I'll never get over that, UNFAIRLY DERIDED)

by SamIam on Jun 11, 2009 4:31 PM MDT reply actions

I've got to take issue with one statement here:

"And when the game is over, even if his players are to blame for mistakes made during it, he lays the blame squarely on himself to protect his players."

Stan Van Gundy is notorious for throwing his players under the bus after games. While I think he's a good coach, I think he calls his players out in the media far too often.

by Robin Z on Jun 11, 2009 6:37 PM MDT reply actions

Gasus your own response tells the K-Mart story perfectly. He is a physical on ball defender decent for his size and a poor rebounder. Jump shooting forwards like David West he absolutely murders. Against a taller post presence like LA's lineup he can't stop anything. Like you said, Dirk got his shot off whenever he wanted on Kenyon. Despite being the enforcer and locker room leader on defense, his actual on court production is average at best. Look at the stats in any category. Having quick feet and a strong athletic frame makes a versatile pick and roll defender. It doesn't change the fact he's in a shrinking role past the prime of his career. Yes, he was a beast before but now is not a top 20 or top 30 player in the league despite being paid like one. Take off your Kenyon-colored glasses and see the truth for what it really is.

by runningdonut on Jun 12, 2009 4:09 PM MDT reply actions

All I'm saying is if you can't CLEARLY see that Chauncey was the difference this year with his coaching then you are flat out stupid. I mean, a 50 win team with Melo, A.I., K-Mart and the DPOY Camby is underachieving imo. With that lineup you should be winning at least 54 games. People talk all the time about Karl's record while he has been here but look at the talent he has had. We should be where we are, and if it weren't for this year with Chauncey it would have been the same old thing, losing in the first round once again. Our FO shouldn't hesitate. Look at what recent firings have created in the world of sports. The Rockies are now on their second longest win streak in team history after firing a coach who took them to an even higher level of success that Karl did with us. Same goes for the Penguins. Similar to the Rockies, after reaching the Finals and losing they fire their coach only to go on and win the next year. The time is now people, we have a roster that can win a title, but we don't have a coach that can win us one. We need Karl out if we are going to try and go for a ship next year, enough said.

by Goldennugget on Jun 12, 2009 10:55 PM MDT reply actions

Amen GN!
FIRE GEORGE KARL
We need someone who can take us all the way to the promise land and deliver us the Larry O'brien Trophy. This isn't in GK's genes.
Like I've also eluded to if it were't for Chauncy we wouldn't have gotten this far. The Nuggets need new some new blood in the elite seat of the coach. Someone who is going to coach rather than sit on his ass and make faces. GK you need to go fishing or coach at North Carolina high school.

by SamIam on Jun 13, 2009 7:37 AM MDT reply actions

Runningdonuts,

So you are telling me that Nene is more effective than Kmart because he scores more and gets 1 or 2 more rebounds per game? LOL! What would you do trade Kmart for a shit contract plus a young stiff like Andrew wants? Defense wins championships dude. Kmart played great defense on Dirk just like I said, not any of that fabricated bullshit you are talking about. So many people that are casual fans of basketball love to look at stats. Even some fans that consider themselves serious fans spend half their time thinking about stats. Stats don't tell half the story when it comes to playing a team game such as basketball. You ever hear of team defense? Nene, AC, and Carmelo are awful team defenders and the only thing that held it together this year was Kmart on the starting front line, Chauncey and Dahnte in the back court, and Bird erasing mistakes off the bench. If the Nuggets were to get rid of Kmart I guarantee they won't get fair value due to his contract size and they would have no chance making it back to where they were this year. You should learn the game of basketball before you start talking about box scores or statistics.

by Gasus on Jun 13, 2009 11:16 AM MDT reply actions

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3. OKLAHOMA CITY THUNDER
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4. BILLY HUNTER AND DEREK FISHER

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5. STEVE NASH AND THE PHOENIX SUNS
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