5 questions for the offseason...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jun 1, 2009 1:01 AM MDT
41 comments
(Photo courtesy of Denver Stiffs reader "Mordecai")I didn't quite grasp how emotionally and physically exhausted I was having followed the Nuggets so closely since October until I sat down on the couch to watch Saturday night's Magic/Cavaliers game. I was fighting back the eyelids from shutting throughout the first half, eventually caved into my exhaustion and didn't wake up until "Law & Order" or whatever the hell they put on TNT late night was on. I had to watch ESPN's "NBA Fastbreak" just to see the highlights of the Cavs' embarrassing series finale implosion and LeBron James classless exit (see more on that on the new Stiff List to the right). Between now and Thursday, I look forward to seeing some Magic fan somewhere concocting a puppet Dwight Howard that's a better effort than the Carmelo Anthony version I attempted after Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals.
So what about our Nuggets? Do they have the goods to get back to the WCF and potentially move on to the NBA Finals in 2010? Or are big changes needed just to match or exceed the success we just experienced? Denver Stiffs will address those issues in more detail in the days, weeks and months ahead (damn I hate the offseason). But here's a detailed sneak preview of the top summer topics for debate...
#1) How will the Nuggets play the role of the hunted as opposed to the hunter?(Photo courtesy of Denver Stiffs reader Jonathan Maness)
This was brought up to me today by my good friend and loyal Denver Stiffs reader Chris from Los Angeles (and yes, he's a Lakers fan but not the annoying one posting in our comments sections, so we'll cut him some slack). Much of the Nuggets success in 2008-09 could be attributed to their something-to-prove/the world-has-counted-us-out mentality. From the coach on down through almost the entire roster, every member of the Nuggets had something to prove this past season as everyone - and I mean everyone, from the national media to their opposition - had the Nuggets penciled in for a playoff absence. This enabled the Nuggets to sneak up on teams and gave them an edge that probably resulted in four or five more wins than even they expected to have.
And yet if you remember how the regular season wrapped up, the Nuggets finished with the exact same record as the Trail Blazers and Spurs, and a mere one game ahead of the fourth-seeded Rockets. One or two bad losses, and we're complaining about the refs favoring the Lakers in Round 2 as opposed to the conference finals.
Entering the 2009-10 season, I think it will be virtually impossible to recapture that "no one believes in us" mentality, but that doesn't mean the Nuggets need to go the way of the Hornets, who went from pleasantly surprising underdogs in 2007-08 to grave disappointments a season later as opposing teams better prepared for them. Instead, the Nuggets need to embrace the role of an elite NBA team and behave like one. This means not beating themselves (i.e. no more Kenyon Martin kicking the side boards or grabbing opposing players' legs and no more J.R. Smith technicals after he makes a shot) while continuing to perpetuate the new definition of "Nuggets Basketball" that became their hallmark for much of this past season: tough defense combined with bruising interior offense.
#2) Will the Nuggets re-sign their own free agents?(Photo courtesy of Denver Stiffs reader Jonathan Maness)
Yeeeeesh. This is a tough one. While management and the players are saying the right things about keeping this team together, the harsh reality is that the Nuggets are at the NBA's luxury tax threshold of $69 or so million with the guaranteed raised contracts already in place for Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Nene, Kenyon Martin, J.R. Smith, Renaldo Balkman, Steven Hunter (yes, that guy), Antonio McDyess (yes, that guy, too) and Sonny Weems. For those who don't understand what the luxury tax threshold means, for every dollar the Nuggets spend exceeding the threshold to re-sign one of their own free agents such as Chris "Birdman" Andersen, Dahntay Jones, Anthony Carter or Linas Kleiza (likely to be a restricted free agent), they must pay an equal dollar to the NBA. So if, say, Birdman is signed to a $4 million contract for next season and the Nuggets keep the rest of the roster in place as-is, it could really cost them $8 million in hard dollars.
You might ask: don't the Nuggets make a lot of money by advancing far into the playoffs? And the answer is: sort of. When Rick Carlisle was working for ESPN, I remember him pointing out that each home game is worth about $1 million to a mid or small market team after the NBA, vendors and whomever else needs to be paid out takes their cut. So in the theory, the Nuggets 2009 playoff run was worth approximately $9 million to the organization. That would be gravy if, as reported by Mark Kiszla of The Denver Post, Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke didn't lose money every year since owning the team.
That being said, I remember when GM Danny Ainge had to sell Celtics co-owner Wyc Grousbeck on the Kevin Garnett deal two summers ago on the grounds that if the Celtics got to the NBA Finals, they would make a small profit thanks to an increase in ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship dollars and so forth. At the end of the day, most NBA owners (i.e. not the Clippers Donald Sterling) want a winning product on the floor that doesn't bleed them dry. Thankfully for Nuggets fans, Kroenke is one of those owners. But exactly how much Kroenke is willing to lose for a chance at that elusive championship ring remains to be seen.
If the Nuggets can avoid a Jim McIlvaine situation when re-signing Birdman and somehow get Dahntay re-signed to a reasonable deal, I'd take my chances on losing Kleiza and A.C., although I like Kleiza as an offensive insurance policy when Melo decides to check out for a quarter or two.
#3) Will the Nuggets renew George Karl's contract?(Photo courtesy of "Mordecai")
Another tough question. To justify his alleged $3 million per season salary, Karl unquestionably did a better coaching job in 2009-10 than he had for three seasons prior (seasons during which he's admitted to being "confused"). Rather than coach an $83 million dollar, 60-win potential team to an eighth playoff seed and first round sweep as we saw in 2007-08, Karl took a potential playoff cellar dweller and guided them to 54 wins and a Western Conference Finals berth. Putting aside the "it was all about Chauncey" argument for a moment, it's fair to debate whether or not Karl should be extended.
But if Karl can admit to lacking passion, almost admit to "faking it" and being "confused" for a couple of seasons while drawing a $3 million annual salary, than the Nuggets organization can lack passion and be confused as to whether or not he should be extended until the 2009-10 season concludes. I understand and respect that 50-win coaches don't grow on trees (note what happened in Detroit after Flip Saunders got canned), but I think the Nuggets have the upper hand with a possible Karl extension. First off, Karl has burned bridges with several other franchises already and I doubt that the marketplace will be clamoring for his services at a $3 million per season clip. Secondly, Karl has established roots in Denver and his family is here with him, so he's likely willing to take a home town discount. Third, Karl and Kroenke remain allegedly close and I doubt that at 58 years old, Karl wants to work for someone unfamiliar.
I'll stand by my earlier commentary that you can't blame a coach when the team fails and yet give him no credit when the team succeeds. And thus, Karl deserves a lot of credit for the Nuggets success last season. But while his misuse of rotations, lack of set play calling and refusal to work the refs in support of his players might be fine when you win 54 games and get to the conference finals, the routine gets old fast if your team goes the other way. I'd like to see how the Nuggets respond to success by the 2010 All-Star break before giving Karl an extension.
#4) Can the Nuggets add a true center?(Photo courtesy of "Mordecai")
Maybe this question should be: do the Nuggets need to add a true center? And to that question, the answer is an emphatic yes. Seeing Nene do admirable work at center all season long only to end a great season with a whimper of a performance against the Lakers made this all too clear. Furthermore, the Nuggets struggled against tall, long teams such as the Lakers, the Rockets and the Trail Blazers all season long. Why? Nene may be listed at 6'11", but he's more like 6'9" with a seven footer's wing span. Nene himself has admitted he'd prefer to play power forward beside a true center and it became increasingly evident as the season went on that Nene simply doesn't have - and pardon the word usage here - a banger's mentality. Rather than play back-to-the-basket, pound it inside, Calvin Natt-style offense, Nene seemed to prefer his spin moves around a defender, mid-range jump shots and flip layups to dunking over opposing centers. And frankly, if Nene can develop that jumper consistently (he certainly has a better shot at it than K-Mart ever will), he could be a viable threat in pick-and-roll situations if he wasn't asked to be inside all the time.
But what's needed, what's available and what's possible are all very different things. A lot of this blog's readers have thrown out Shaquille O'Neal's name in the comments section from Saturday morning's column. Baggage and injuries aside, adding Shaq is an interesting idea. But the Nuggets would have to part with K-Mart's contract plus another two players' contracts and add another bad contract (like Jason Richardson's) and use up their $10 million trade exemption and go well over that luxury tax to make that deal possible. If you were the Nuggets, would you risk breaking up a Western Conference Finals team to bring in Shaq at center and lose another $20 million for one shot at an NBA Championship? It's actually worth thinking about, but ask the Suns how that's worked out for them.
Ideally - and this doesn't mean I don't appreciate everything he did for the Nuggets this past season - I'd like to see the Nuggets part with K-Mart and bring in a true center so Nene can move to his natural position of power forward. K-Mart's unnecessary and unwarranted grabbing of Sasha Vujacic's leg just as the Nuggets were making a mini-run combined with several missed corner jump shots against the Lakers in Game 6 seemed to be a microcosm of K-Mart's Nuggets career: tough, sure, but at what cost?
But unfortunately for the Nuggets, there are very few, if any, teams with a center to spare while also desperately needing a power forward presence (although I don't imagine anyone is desperate enough to take on K-Mart's ghastly $32 million dollar contract over the next two seasons...thank you, Kiki Vandeweghe, that's the gift that just keeps on giving!). The short, short list includes the Magic who - depending on what happens in the Finals - have no real power forward other than Tony "El Busto" Battie (meaning they have no power forward) and might be willing to do a sign-and-trade with backup center Marcin Gortat coming to Denver.
Who am I kidding? Hey Nene, have fun playing center again in 2009-10.
#5) How do we address the backup point guard position?(Photo courtesy of Jonathan Maness)
Poor Anthony Carter. He plays as hard if not harder than anyone on the Nuggets. And yet if J.R. Smith is the "One Man Comeback" than A.C. is the "One Man Turnover." It seems like every great Carter steal - and he's had a lot of those - is matched by an overthrown, over excited pass. And every great Carter layup - and he's had a lot of those, too - is matched by a bricked open jump shot with plenty of time left on the shot clock. But as with a lot of things in life, you get what you pay for. And for his paltry (by NBA standards) $1.2 million contract, A.C. probably helps the Nuggets more than he hurts them.
This doesn't mean the Nuggets couldn't use an upgrade at backup point guard - especially with Chauncey advancing in age - and move A.C. to the secondary backup. But how exactly are the Nuggets going to pay for this? I'm not exactly sure how Kleiza's qualifying offer works, but the Nuggets may need to make a decision between re-signing Kleiza and upgrading the backup point guard slot either through free agency or a Kleiza trade (while moving Balkman to Kleiza's slot as the primary small forward reserve). And no, Mateen Cleaves isn't the answer.
I just did a quick scan of the other 29 NBA team rosters, and couldn't find an affordable/available backup point guard to get jazzed about. Unless the Nuggets pick one up in the second round of the draft (whom Karl would never play anyway), expect to see A.C. backing up Chauncey again in 2009-10.
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First off, I love the new Stiff List Andrew. What Lebron did was pretty selfish in the first place, but believe it or not I didn't think much of it. But his comments afterwords were just inexcusable, as well as contradictory.
Great read once again. I think we should try and dig deeper into this scenario in the coming weeks, exploring any and all possible scenarios for the Nuggets future.
If I were to guess, I would say we won't make it back to the Confrence Finals again next year but we will still be a very good team and win our first series in the playoffs. The Blazers are going to be even better, the Rockets depending on health could very well challenge for the title and of course the Lakers and Spurs are always there.
Personally I think re-signing Dahnte and Kleiza would be a terrible idea. Dahnte is a poor sport, can't shoot, can't really defend and at this point in time there is no doubt Weems needs to see the floor because he is likely much better than Dahnte. And we just can't afford to have Kleiza take another season off like he did this one. Carter, well, I agree that he is "unfairly derided" at times (sorry Sam) but the bottom line is, he's a back-up. My ideal situation would be for us to draft a PG for Chauncey to take under his wing, even if that means trading up.
I too would love to see us land a "true center" but once again, we have no money and nobody is going to take on K-Marts contract, not even the Clippers. And I don't have as much faith in our FO as a lot of people do. Imo, they totally lucked out with the Chauncey trade and the Birdman signings. Fact is, they signed 2 guys who were out of the league prior to this year and traded away our DPoY for practically nothing. It's the Clippers for God's sake, get as much as you can from them! If our FO was just a little bit smarter they could have worked out a deal to get the Clippers first rounder this year, and we would be sitting here with the #1 pick, not them. So again, I don't have much faith in them, but I do think they will shake things up a bit, but I am not sold that they believe the moves they make will work out the way the do.
Now, a couple of questions. First, what is the trade exemption and how can we use it? And second, what is the deal with the Bobcats pick?
Great read once again. I think we should try and dig deeper into this scenario in the coming weeks, exploring any and all possible scenarios for the Nuggets future.
If I were to guess, I would say we won't make it back to the Confrence Finals again next year but we will still be a very good team and win our first series in the playoffs. The Blazers are going to be even better, the Rockets depending on health could very well challenge for the title and of course the Lakers and Spurs are always there.
Personally I think re-signing Dahnte and Kleiza would be a terrible idea. Dahnte is a poor sport, can't shoot, can't really defend and at this point in time there is no doubt Weems needs to see the floor because he is likely much better than Dahnte. And we just can't afford to have Kleiza take another season off like he did this one. Carter, well, I agree that he is "unfairly derided" at times (sorry Sam) but the bottom line is, he's a back-up. My ideal situation would be for us to draft a PG for Chauncey to take under his wing, even if that means trading up.
I too would love to see us land a "true center" but once again, we have no money and nobody is going to take on K-Marts contract, not even the Clippers. And I don't have as much faith in our FO as a lot of people do. Imo, they totally lucked out with the Chauncey trade and the Birdman signings. Fact is, they signed 2 guys who were out of the league prior to this year and traded away our DPoY for practically nothing. It's the Clippers for God's sake, get as much as you can from them! If our FO was just a little bit smarter they could have worked out a deal to get the Clippers first rounder this year, and we would be sitting here with the #1 pick, not them. So again, I don't have much faith in them, but I do think they will shake things up a bit, but I am not sold that they believe the moves they make will work out the way the do.
Now, a couple of questions. First, what is the trade exemption and how can we use it? And second, what is the deal with the Bobcats pick?
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 12:28 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
While your position of "can't blame the coach when losing, unless you praise him when winning" position is commendable, I feel it is a gross oversimplification.
Personally, I never blamed Karl for losing (and it's not like he has actually had a losing season since he's been here). I do blame him for: doing a lot of things that make absolutely no sense to me; for having an attitude that seems often defeatist and/or disinterested; and having a rocky relationship (at best) with the majority of his players. Those things, among others, I feel are probably a hindrance to the team. He should still be condemned for those perceived shortcomings, regardless of whether the Nuggets win or lose. Just as he has routinely chastised JR, for a few boneheaded plays, in games that we probably wouldn't have won without him. Stupid decisions remain stupid, regardless of the final score.
The bigger question I have though, is what does Karl actually bring to the team? There seems to be a general laissez-faire, or hands off, tendency to most of his coaching. I've heard that he has a great "basketball mind", and other generic platitudes, but what specific things does he bring? I've yet to see from him, or hear from his defenders, what his definitive strengths really are. It doesn't seem to be a specific system, his play calling, player relations, or anything else. In the face of some obvious shortcomings, his talents seem to be very elusive.
To conclude this diatribe, I definitely don't think he should, or would, be fired this season. It would be too disruptive, and he has earned enough to finish out his contract. However, it would probably be a grave mistake to extend his time here. If, for nothing else, his admission of taking a "sabbatical" the last couple years. As I've said in the past, that alone is enough for him to never have my full support.
Personally, I never blamed Karl for losing (and it's not like he has actually had a losing season since he's been here). I do blame him for: doing a lot of things that make absolutely no sense to me; for having an attitude that seems often defeatist and/or disinterested; and having a rocky relationship (at best) with the majority of his players. Those things, among others, I feel are probably a hindrance to the team. He should still be condemned for those perceived shortcomings, regardless of whether the Nuggets win or lose. Just as he has routinely chastised JR, for a few boneheaded plays, in games that we probably wouldn't have won without him. Stupid decisions remain stupid, regardless of the final score.
The bigger question I have though, is what does Karl actually bring to the team? There seems to be a general laissez-faire, or hands off, tendency to most of his coaching. I've heard that he has a great "basketball mind", and other generic platitudes, but what specific things does he bring? I've yet to see from him, or hear from his defenders, what his definitive strengths really are. It doesn't seem to be a specific system, his play calling, player relations, or anything else. In the face of some obvious shortcomings, his talents seem to be very elusive.
To conclude this diatribe, I definitely don't think he should, or would, be fired this season. It would be too disruptive, and he has earned enough to finish out his contract. However, it would probably be a grave mistake to extend his time here. If, for nothing else, his admission of taking a "sabbatical" the last couple years. As I've said in the past, that alone is enough for him to never have my full support.
by Cessair on Jun 1, 2009 12:33 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Both the guys above me made some great points.
Andrew, as for the blog today, good as usual and straight to the point. K-Mart's not going anywhere and we should get used to that. I say we let AC walk and throw Marcus Williams (the Warriors dropped him not long ago) a lifeline, and hopefully he can learn under Chauncey's wing. Either that or wheel and deal up and take Brandon Jennings in the draft. We really need to re-sign Birdman, he's a pivotal cog in the team. You're looking like a genius for the petition. As for Dahntay and Kleiza, I say we offer them chips and see what they get from other teams.
Andrew, as for the blog today, good as usual and straight to the point. K-Mart's not going anywhere and we should get used to that. I say we let AC walk and throw Marcus Williams (the Warriors dropped him not long ago) a lifeline, and hopefully he can learn under Chauncey's wing. Either that or wheel and deal up and take Brandon Jennings in the draft. We really need to re-sign Birdman, he's a pivotal cog in the team. You're looking like a genius for the petition. As for Dahntay and Kleiza, I say we offer them chips and see what they get from other teams.
by Jack on Jun 1, 2009 3:36 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I've been a Karl supporter since day one. But now, I've changed my mind. 0-5 in five elimination games in the past five seasons is unacceptable. The Nuggets lose for the third time in a series and they pack it up and go home. All five seasons have seen the third loss of a playoff series followed immediately by a fourth and final loss of the series. No adjustments are made, no facing the adversity, no coming out fighting, just quitting. It's like the Nuggets still think every series is a best of five series. Lose 3 games and it is over. Take a look at the 1994 Nuggets. They were 6-1 when facing elimination. That team knew how to fight and had no quit in them. We need a coach that can face adversity and win. It starts in the regular season. We were great when we were winning, but one tough loss snowballed into more losses against Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit and Indiana (all on the road, where you have to expect some adversity). I thought Billups would help this team learn how to fight through these challenges, but his worst game of the playoffs also came in the elimination game. Turns out, he gave-up, too. Which places all of the blame squarely on the coach's shoulders. Karl deserves to be back on top of the stiffs list for his Nuggets teams always being a no-show in elimination games.
by Anonymous on Jun 1, 2009 9:05 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Very good as always but really dropping the ball on two points. First, the Nuggets need to get rid of Nene due to Kenyon not being moveable. Maybe look at restructuring Kenyon's contract to retirement and taking up less cap space for the next two years. If they could give Kenyon a contract that would guarantee he would be with the Nuggets for the rest of his career and still make a great salary he may consider it.
Nene doesn't fit on this team due to Kenyon being immovable and that is a fact. Also, Nene probably has a really good trade value and there may be several teams that would be willing to part with a center. You could look at Detroit's Rasheed Wallace or maybe even Andrew Bynum from the Lakers, or Chris Kaman from the Clippers (who would probably throw in a scorer to back up Melon). I'm sure there are many others that would be of good value to the Nuggets but I just can't think of them now. I am one to side with Rasheed Wallace due to his toughness and familiarity with Chauncey Billups. Wallace also could probably be obtained for a salary similar to Nene's due to his reputation around the league.
The second point I would like to make is the resigning of George Karl. In my opinion the Nuggets should fire him now. He brings nothing to the team but controversy. He says "this is my team" when in all actuality it is the furthest thing from it. The reason Chauncey was such a success in Denver was due to him being a player coach. The Nuggets have been lacking a Coach for many years now and Chauncey fills that void finally. GK loses one out of every 3 or 4 of the Nuggets losses. Awful choices in rotations (whether it is playing AC against a far supperior player, or mixing up the rotation at crucial points in games), terrible play calls at crucial points in games, and an adversary mentality with a few key players on the Nuggets team. For some reason GK believed that AC would be a better matchup against LA than Balkman. Balkman was this years man out due to some reasoning of GK even though he was one of the most productive players on the court for the Nuggets all season when he got playing time. A championship team cannot have a coach losing them games. Get rid of GK now and the Nuggets should have plenty of time to get used to the ways of a new coach before next season.
Nene doesn't fit on this team due to Kenyon being immovable and that is a fact. Also, Nene probably has a really good trade value and there may be several teams that would be willing to part with a center. You could look at Detroit's Rasheed Wallace or maybe even Andrew Bynum from the Lakers, or Chris Kaman from the Clippers (who would probably throw in a scorer to back up Melon). I'm sure there are many others that would be of good value to the Nuggets but I just can't think of them now. I am one to side with Rasheed Wallace due to his toughness and familiarity with Chauncey Billups. Wallace also could probably be obtained for a salary similar to Nene's due to his reputation around the league.
The second point I would like to make is the resigning of George Karl. In my opinion the Nuggets should fire him now. He brings nothing to the team but controversy. He says "this is my team" when in all actuality it is the furthest thing from it. The reason Chauncey was such a success in Denver was due to him being a player coach. The Nuggets have been lacking a Coach for many years now and Chauncey fills that void finally. GK loses one out of every 3 or 4 of the Nuggets losses. Awful choices in rotations (whether it is playing AC against a far supperior player, or mixing up the rotation at crucial points in games), terrible play calls at crucial points in games, and an adversary mentality with a few key players on the Nuggets team. For some reason GK believed that AC would be a better matchup against LA than Balkman. Balkman was this years man out due to some reasoning of GK even though he was one of the most productive players on the court for the Nuggets all season when he got playing time. A championship team cannot have a coach losing them games. Get rid of GK now and the Nuggets should have plenty of time to get used to the ways of a new coach before next season.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 10:08 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Re-sign Bird, let the rest go. Sign a vet back-up PG that can shoot the 3 and a young one to learn under CB.
Need a center but Shaq is a long shot and not really much of an asset at this point. Petro and Hunter are stiffs. Not sure how they solve this but I guess that's not my job. Maybe Sheed...but that is a line-up that is waiting to explode at any second.
With the exception of the last game...still not sure what happened there, a nice season.
On a side note, not sure how many here are Pink Floyd fans, but last night my wife made pudding for desert and we had hamburgers for dinner. My 3 1/2 year old eats very little, much less a burger, and my wife literally (and innocently said to him), "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Too funny.
Anyway, have a great summer.
Need a center but Shaq is a long shot and not really much of an asset at this point. Petro and Hunter are stiffs. Not sure how they solve this but I guess that's not my job. Maybe Sheed...but that is a line-up that is waiting to explode at any second.
With the exception of the last game...still not sure what happened there, a nice season.
On a side note, not sure how many here are Pink Floyd fans, but last night my wife made pudding for desert and we had hamburgers for dinner. My 3 1/2 year old eats very little, much less a burger, and my wife literally (and innocently said to him), "How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?" Too funny.
Anyway, have a great summer.
by Pusherman on Jun 1, 2009 10:16 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
man i'm still hurting too bad to watch espn. i think i need another week or two to cope.
I really hope u aren't right andrew, and we at least get one thing center or back up pointgaurd.
I preffer a PG, and love the idea of balkman as melo's back up.
lets hope we have a good offseason for once.
GO NUGGETS
ps i'm going to my blogger id, don't know what i haven't used it for the last 2 years. Nuggs0611
I really hope u aren't right andrew, and we at least get one thing center or back up pointgaurd.
I preffer a PG, and love the idea of balkman as melo's back up.
lets hope we have a good offseason for once.
GO NUGGETS
ps i'm going to my blogger id, don't know what i haven't used it for the last 2 years. Nuggs0611
by an from dubai on Jun 1, 2009 10:22 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Kyle,
Trading Nene while keeping KMart doesn't fix the problem. Right now we are undersized at both 4 and 5. As long as Martin is on the floor, they are undersized at 4, no matter how hard he plays. He's also a huge liability on offense, allowing the defense to double off of him.
Now way in the world the Lakers trade Bynum. They are likely to lose Odom, and Bynum is still improving.
As Andrew said, it all depends on how much money the owner is willing to sink into the team. I think they could move K-Mart if they find the right team. Perhaps send him to Phoenix as a poor man's Shawn Marion and get Tyson Chandler or Kaman in a three team trade.
For the backup point guard, there are a lot of point guards in the draft - so they could draft one, or they could make a trade for a current starter who gets replaced by another team on draft day. Maybe package Kleiza and the second round pick.
Looking back, it's easy to criticize the Camby trade, but as they said at the time, it's a chess match. Taking Camby off the team for nothing in return actually improved the team - I hated his shots and his constant shotblocking left the basket open for offensive rebounds. Now let's see what they do with the trade exemption. Looking forward to watching the pieces move around the board.
Trading Nene while keeping KMart doesn't fix the problem. Right now we are undersized at both 4 and 5. As long as Martin is on the floor, they are undersized at 4, no matter how hard he plays. He's also a huge liability on offense, allowing the defense to double off of him.
Now way in the world the Lakers trade Bynum. They are likely to lose Odom, and Bynum is still improving.
As Andrew said, it all depends on how much money the owner is willing to sink into the team. I think they could move K-Mart if they find the right team. Perhaps send him to Phoenix as a poor man's Shawn Marion and get Tyson Chandler or Kaman in a three team trade.
For the backup point guard, there are a lot of point guards in the draft - so they could draft one, or they could make a trade for a current starter who gets replaced by another team on draft day. Maybe package Kleiza and the second round pick.
Looking back, it's easy to criticize the Camby trade, but as they said at the time, it's a chess match. Taking Camby off the team for nothing in return actually improved the team - I hated his shots and his constant shotblocking left the basket open for offensive rebounds. Now let's see what they do with the trade exemption. Looking forward to watching the pieces move around the board.
by KarlSucks on Jun 1, 2009 10:51 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Nene will flourish under a new coach with a system. The last thing we need is Nene coming back to the Pepsi Center on another team and punishing us. He's a pretty unique talent who just isn't being utilized correctly.
Now if he could just learn to stay out of foul trouble...
Now if he could just learn to stay out of foul trouble...
by Do We Have Any Plays? on Jun 1, 2009 11:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Andrew, amen to putting LeBron on the stiff list. I lost a lot of respect for him after what he did the other night. And his stupid and arrogant explanation for it afterward was just tasteless and immature. In the same interview, with a straight face, he said something to the effect of "I spoil you guys every night with my incredible skills." What a stiff.
As for the Nuggets' offseason questions, almost all of them can be answered adequately if Kenyon Martin does something to make his contract null and void this summer. I'm hoping and praying that he commits a felony, which, given how much of a hot head he is, really isn't that unlikely.
To all true Nuggets fans out there, if you see Kenyon Martin in public, do something to piss him off so he'll try to assault you. Then, take the beating like a man, and then press charges.
As for the Nuggets' offseason questions, almost all of them can be answered adequately if Kenyon Martin does something to make his contract null and void this summer. I'm hoping and praying that he commits a felony, which, given how much of a hot head he is, really isn't that unlikely.
To all true Nuggets fans out there, if you see Kenyon Martin in public, do something to piss him off so he'll try to assault you. Then, take the beating like a man, and then press charges.
by Benyon on Jun 1, 2009 12:31 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lots of great points on here but lots of missed small details too.
A) GN, even though they're the Clips, there's no way that IF we could have gotten a #1 for Camby that it wouldn't have been lottery protected for at least 2-3 years so that's wishful (yet admirable) thinking.
B) Cessair and the anonymous dude, you make great points. Anonymous' point that we have lost #3 and #4 consecutively should be a RED FLAG about Karl. That's something I didn't see, and props for bringing that to light... (Andrew are you noticing this?)
C) Jack, I like the idea of resurrecting someone a la Marcus Williams... we've had a good track record with Jones and Birdman obviously... maybe let Chauncey hand pick his pet project or something...
D) Kyle vs. KarlSucks: I agree that Nene is probably the best chip to move. I DO NOT see K-Mart as undersized vs. any PF in the league (which ones?) and I DO think that under the right system (as DWHAP suggests) Nene, and others would flourish a little better.
E) If Chris Kaman comes here I will throw up on my keyboard... please hush that garbage folks.
F) Andrew made a reference to the firing of Flip Saunders as a testament to coaching changes not working, but actually you can look back to the same Pistons franchise and see that the firing of Rick Carslile and subsequent hiring of Karl's mentor Larry Brown, after a very successful, yet not-quite-over-the-hump string of seasons out of Carslile is what got them to the Championship.... marinate on that! It's NOT unprecedented to see teams fire coaches after seemingly "successful" seasons. Karl needs to go. Time's up, and he's not giving an honest effort. Seeing him lean against the media table in that last game made me want to run downtown and shove him onto the floor from behind. You call that coaching? Looking disappointed? That's the best way to coach? Hell, we can all do that Karl! Get a grip on reality... you're not doing your job, and are seemingly incapable! Bye (please!)
A) GN, even though they're the Clips, there's no way that IF we could have gotten a #1 for Camby that it wouldn't have been lottery protected for at least 2-3 years so that's wishful (yet admirable) thinking.
B) Cessair and the anonymous dude, you make great points. Anonymous' point that we have lost #3 and #4 consecutively should be a RED FLAG about Karl. That's something I didn't see, and props for bringing that to light... (Andrew are you noticing this?)
C) Jack, I like the idea of resurrecting someone a la Marcus Williams... we've had a good track record with Jones and Birdman obviously... maybe let Chauncey hand pick his pet project or something...
D) Kyle vs. KarlSucks: I agree that Nene is probably the best chip to move. I DO NOT see K-Mart as undersized vs. any PF in the league (which ones?) and I DO think that under the right system (as DWHAP suggests) Nene, and others would flourish a little better.
E) If Chris Kaman comes here I will throw up on my keyboard... please hush that garbage folks.
F) Andrew made a reference to the firing of Flip Saunders as a testament to coaching changes not working, but actually you can look back to the same Pistons franchise and see that the firing of Rick Carslile and subsequent hiring of Karl's mentor Larry Brown, after a very successful, yet not-quite-over-the-hump string of seasons out of Carslile is what got them to the Championship.... marinate on that! It's NOT unprecedented to see teams fire coaches after seemingly "successful" seasons. Karl needs to go. Time's up, and he's not giving an honest effort. Seeing him lean against the media table in that last game made me want to run downtown and shove him onto the floor from behind. You call that coaching? Looking disappointed? That's the best way to coach? Hell, we can all do that Karl! Get a grip on reality... you're not doing your job, and are seemingly incapable! Bye (please!)
by Eric K on Jun 1, 2009 12:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Re-signing Jones is the absolute wrong thing to do, at any price.
Here's a truly damning statistic: For every 48 minutes that Jones was on the court this year, the Nuggets were outscored by about 3 points (see 82games.com). Considering that the Nuggets as a whole outscored their opponents by almost 4 points a game on average, and that Jones STARTED alongside some of the guys with the best +/- differentials on the team, and that no other player in the regular rotation had a negative on court +/-, and that Jones' +/- differential was by far the worst on the team, it's clear that Jones shouldn't have been on the roster, let alone gotten the minutes that he did, let alone STARTED. Another reason Karl must go.
Here's a truly damning statistic: For every 48 minutes that Jones was on the court this year, the Nuggets were outscored by about 3 points (see 82games.com). Considering that the Nuggets as a whole outscored their opponents by almost 4 points a game on average, and that Jones STARTED alongside some of the guys with the best +/- differentials on the team, and that no other player in the regular rotation had a negative on court +/-, and that Jones' +/- differential was by far the worst on the team, it's clear that Jones shouldn't have been on the roster, let alone gotten the minutes that he did, let alone STARTED. Another reason Karl must go.
by DahntayMustGo on Jun 1, 2009 12:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post. I'm looking forward to hear the discussions around these questions and see what the FO does; otherwise, I don't know how I'll bear the offseason. Anybody have any more news on what happened with Nene's arm in gm 6?
by Artimus Mangilord on Jun 1, 2009 1:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
KarlSucks,
You seem to miss that Kmart is a serious defender. Also, no team will take his contract this year and give fair talent in return. People such as yourself that don't realize what Kmart brings to the floor are what foster this inaccuracy in trade value. Kmart is by far the Nuggets best defender. He's is the main reason the Nuggets had it so easy against Dallas and New Orleans. What did David West do in the New Orleans series? Nothing, and he was an all star this year. Also, the Nuggets didn't have to throw double teams against Dirk because they had Kmart to single him up. Who set the tone for the Dallas series? It was Kmart with the check of Dirk into the stanchion of the basket in game one. Granted Dirk scored points in the series but he was single manned by Kmart most the series allowing the rest of the Nugs defenders to clamp down on the rest of the Mavs.
Nene and AC were the Nuggets two biggest liabilities in the post season. Nene really fell apart against the Lakers. The Nugs rely on Nene to score efficiently and defend a big. Nene cannot defend a good big and this was evidenced all season as the Nuggets worst matchups were against teams with a good center. Think about it, LA, Phoenix, Orlando, Houston, etc...
Now let's think about who the Nuggets match up best against. Dallas, New Orleans, Utah, Toronto, etc. All these teams have one of their top 2 players at power forward. The Nugs are lacking the rebounding and defensive strength of a true center. Rasheed Wallace brings that toughness and would pair with Kmart for one of the most intimidating front lines in the game.
Also, Kmart knows his role on offense. Granted again, he is not a good shooter. However, look at shooting percentage for the year. Kmart is among the team leaders and he doesn't take nearly as many unwarranted shots as many of the nugs (ie JR, Melon, AC). The Nuggets keep Kmart on the team because he is a world class defender. What a sham, LBJ all defensive first team and 2nd in voting for DPOY? How about KG missing half the season and still getting the first team (probably the best defender in the NBA though)?
And KarlSucks, the Camby trade was genius. Camby is actually a Birdman that requires a lot more shots and playing time and isn't a momentum changer. Camby is the worst defender ever to win the DPOY as he is completely inadequate on the ball. Actually, I could argue that Bird is a better defender than Camby because he can hold his own on the ball.
In summation, what this all comes down to is the fact that the Rockets and Lakers are going to be the two teams the Nuggets must beat next year to get to the Finals (San Antonio is a lost cause because Duncan and Finley are so old and Ginobili is so injury prone). Without a true center the Nuggets will not beat either Houston (with a healthy Yao) or LA in a 7 game series.
Karl must be fired as he cannot handle a volatile player such as Rasheed Wallace and the opportunity is now to pick him up. He is the perfect fit and will probably bring a long awaited championship to the Denver Nuggets.
You seem to miss that Kmart is a serious defender. Also, no team will take his contract this year and give fair talent in return. People such as yourself that don't realize what Kmart brings to the floor are what foster this inaccuracy in trade value. Kmart is by far the Nuggets best defender. He's is the main reason the Nuggets had it so easy against Dallas and New Orleans. What did David West do in the New Orleans series? Nothing, and he was an all star this year. Also, the Nuggets didn't have to throw double teams against Dirk because they had Kmart to single him up. Who set the tone for the Dallas series? It was Kmart with the check of Dirk into the stanchion of the basket in game one. Granted Dirk scored points in the series but he was single manned by Kmart most the series allowing the rest of the Nugs defenders to clamp down on the rest of the Mavs.
Nene and AC were the Nuggets two biggest liabilities in the post season. Nene really fell apart against the Lakers. The Nugs rely on Nene to score efficiently and defend a big. Nene cannot defend a good big and this was evidenced all season as the Nuggets worst matchups were against teams with a good center. Think about it, LA, Phoenix, Orlando, Houston, etc...
Now let's think about who the Nuggets match up best against. Dallas, New Orleans, Utah, Toronto, etc. All these teams have one of their top 2 players at power forward. The Nugs are lacking the rebounding and defensive strength of a true center. Rasheed Wallace brings that toughness and would pair with Kmart for one of the most intimidating front lines in the game.
Also, Kmart knows his role on offense. Granted again, he is not a good shooter. However, look at shooting percentage for the year. Kmart is among the team leaders and he doesn't take nearly as many unwarranted shots as many of the nugs (ie JR, Melon, AC). The Nuggets keep Kmart on the team because he is a world class defender. What a sham, LBJ all defensive first team and 2nd in voting for DPOY? How about KG missing half the season and still getting the first team (probably the best defender in the NBA though)?
And KarlSucks, the Camby trade was genius. Camby is actually a Birdman that requires a lot more shots and playing time and isn't a momentum changer. Camby is the worst defender ever to win the DPOY as he is completely inadequate on the ball. Actually, I could argue that Bird is a better defender than Camby because he can hold his own on the ball.
In summation, what this all comes down to is the fact that the Rockets and Lakers are going to be the two teams the Nuggets must beat next year to get to the Finals (San Antonio is a lost cause because Duncan and Finley are so old and Ginobili is so injury prone). Without a true center the Nuggets will not beat either Houston (with a healthy Yao) or LA in a 7 game series.
Karl must be fired as he cannot handle a volatile player such as Rasheed Wallace and the opportunity is now to pick him up. He is the perfect fit and will probably bring a long awaited championship to the Denver Nuggets.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 2:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. Jones was the Chris Paul trump, he has a good role in this team. Martin was critical to beating Dallas and his tough defense. I also like Nene, I think he got a got worn out toward the end...lacks the energy but is an efficient player, makes smart passes and shots...we need to keep our height that we have...The point is that I think we should keep everyone except for Carter and Lindas. Lindas did a nice job in the playoffs, that will help his trade value. Get a true center...get Marc Gasol! Or Bogut...someone who is not a rookie anymore...maturing but hasn't reached his potential. I like the idea of getting a talented young point guard under Billups wings. The key is to keep what works and the youth we have...but don't get grasshoppers...to much of a liability and the odds are they won't make it especailly in Karls system not not trusting youth. I think Balkman will make replace Martin nicely. If we can keep the core we have, and get good replacements for our elders when their contract expires I think we can get a good shot at this, meaning finals appearance...or a title if we have really strong chemistry, health and the right combination...what we really need is to get a great deal for a center..not too young, but definately not old.
CB
CB
by Anonymous on Jun 1, 2009 3:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Erik K,
He's undersized against almost all power forwards. He's really strong which helps, but you can't teach height. He's really a SF with a lot of strength. He matched up with West because the are both 6-9. Turkoglu at SF is bigger than him. Look at the last two playoff series, Gasol and Nowitski are both over 7'. Duncan is 6-11. Most of the year he is slightly undersized, but in the playoffs, combined with Nene they are massively undersized.
Kyle,
I love K-Mart, and recognize his effort on defense. With his contract, his only value is in a salary dump or exchange of bad contracts. He has no chance against Nowitski, Duncan, Gasol and the others in the playoffs. Nene's additional size and shooting ability make him the one to keep if at all possible. Nene's contract is not small either and he is probably no easier to trade than Martin. Nene's problems came primarily from playing out of position, like when Karl had A.C. guarding Bryant. Put him at 4 and he's better on both ends. If they manage to get a center with Martin still on the team, Martin goes to the bench, not Nene.
I think the best lineup this season usually was Billups, Smith, Anthony, Nene, and Birdman. Bring in a real center to start at 5 and that's your lineup. Rasheed Wallace would be a great addition, but he's not a center either. The primary problem on this team is at 5.
He's undersized against almost all power forwards. He's really strong which helps, but you can't teach height. He's really a SF with a lot of strength. He matched up with West because the are both 6-9. Turkoglu at SF is bigger than him. Look at the last two playoff series, Gasol and Nowitski are both over 7'. Duncan is 6-11. Most of the year he is slightly undersized, but in the playoffs, combined with Nene they are massively undersized.
Kyle,
I love K-Mart, and recognize his effort on defense. With his contract, his only value is in a salary dump or exchange of bad contracts. He has no chance against Nowitski, Duncan, Gasol and the others in the playoffs. Nene's additional size and shooting ability make him the one to keep if at all possible. Nene's contract is not small either and he is probably no easier to trade than Martin. Nene's problems came primarily from playing out of position, like when Karl had A.C. guarding Bryant. Put him at 4 and he's better on both ends. If they manage to get a center with Martin still on the team, Martin goes to the bench, not Nene.
I think the best lineup this season usually was Billups, Smith, Anthony, Nene, and Birdman. Bring in a real center to start at 5 and that's your lineup. Rasheed Wallace would be a great addition, but he's not a center either. The primary problem on this team is at 5.
by KarlSucks on Jun 1, 2009 3:10 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Andy, you forgot question #6:
When is the DenverStiffs website going to get an upgrade or face lift?
LOL, sorry, had to throw it out there. Hoping that you can create a better file based setup with threads and the whole nine yards. Having a scroll bar as long as if someone posted Gone With the Wind or War and Peace on a single page on the internet is bad for your archived info (it gets buried), and threads would allow people to comment specifically toward topics rather than just posting on the most recent thread at the top and hoping to make some noise... kinda like me here now :)
Here's to 09-10!
When is the DenverStiffs website going to get an upgrade or face lift?
LOL, sorry, had to throw it out there. Hoping that you can create a better file based setup with threads and the whole nine yards. Having a scroll bar as long as if someone posted Gone With the Wind or War and Peace on a single page on the internet is bad for your archived info (it gets buried), and threads would allow people to comment specifically toward topics rather than just posting on the most recent thread at the top and hoping to make some noise... kinda like me here now :)
Here's to 09-10!
by Eric K on Jun 1, 2009 3:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
A couple points
First off...Andrew you are forgetting the merchandising explosion that happened this year. I think the Nuggets sold more merch than they have in their history this year. So I think that its more than 1 mil a playoff home game.
Rex Chapman was on the Fan today and he kinda indicated he thing Kroenke will spend the money this year to upgrade or rather "win" as he put it. That's encouraging. Lets hope he's just not paying lip service.
I think we will get rid of LK and AC and Petro....bring up Weems (who apparently was tearing up the Developmental league with 28 a game) to back up JR...and then invest in resigning Bird and an adequate backup center (who is out there I dont know)
Also I think it's safe to say they will get rit of their 2nd round pick this year maybe in a package deal.
First off...Andrew you are forgetting the merchandising explosion that happened this year. I think the Nuggets sold more merch than they have in their history this year. So I think that its more than 1 mil a playoff home game.
Rex Chapman was on the Fan today and he kinda indicated he thing Kroenke will spend the money this year to upgrade or rather "win" as he put it. That's encouraging. Lets hope he's just not paying lip service.
I think we will get rid of LK and AC and Petro....bring up Weems (who apparently was tearing up the Developmental league with 28 a game) to back up JR...and then invest in resigning Bird and an adequate backup center (who is out there I dont know)
Also I think it's safe to say they will get rit of their 2nd round pick this year maybe in a package deal.
by Jeff on Jun 1, 2009 4:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Do you really believe Orlando would go for K-Mart? They could probably sign Carlos Boozer for a similar cost. Just as it was with the last couple offseasons, this contract is untradable.
by Charlie on Jun 1, 2009 4:50 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/What-s-next-for-the-Nuggets?urn=nba,167212#remaining-content
by Chris C. on Jun 1, 2009 5:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
So it seems as though obtaining another big man, preferably a "true center", is the main view of a lot of the commenter thus far. I am fine with this idea, but again we would have to trade away somebody. Chances are K-Mart wouldn't be traded with his contract and that is a good thing because I think K-Mart is not only one of the best defenders in the league but his passion and attitude mean a lot to this team. This pretty much leaves Nene. I wouldn't be happy with trading Nene, as I love what he brings to this team but if we were to get a larger center in return as well as cap space I wouldn't be opposed to this idea. One way or another in order to obtain a "true center" we have to move one big contract in order to stay under the cap.
Here is a situation in which we might make out the best, through the draft...
We need to draft a PG, and this draft is perfect. We should try and talk with some teams in the mid to late lottery about a trade with Nene. The reason I pick Nene is because his contract isn't THAT bad and he had a great showing this past year so his value should be high. If we landed somewhere between say, 6th and 20th, this would give us a shot at drafting either Curry, Jennings, Maynor, Flynn, Holliday, Mills, Evans, Teague, ect, all of which are going to be great PGs at the next level imo. Now, not only would we have a great backup PG and future prospect, but we would then free up about 9 mil which we could use to sign Birdman, which will likely cost around 3-5 mil a year and then use the rest to go after Sheed, or any other FA Center such as Okur or O'Neal (Jermaine). Sheed would be the ideal fit as he is basically a taller, declining Nene with better shooting and defending skills. It would also be nice to pair him up with Chauncey again. And I just get the feeling that he would fit in great with the rest of the guys, therefor creating solid chemistry on the floor. So, this would mean our lineup would look something like this...
PG Chancuey/great rookie via draft
SG JR/Weems
SF Melo/Balkman
PF K-Mart/Birdman
C Sheed/Hunter, or someone else via trade
This team above me looks just as good, if not better than the one we had on the floor this year. This team would also be under the cap. And this isn't including other FAs who we could sign at the vets minimum who may turn out alright as well. Of course there are many other options but I have thought it over and this seems to be one of the better ones for not only now but the future as well because we would be sitting on a great young PG along with Melo, JR and most likely another great FA in the summer of 2010 when K-Mart's contract expires. But for all of this to happen we can't re-sign anybody except Birdman and if you look at it, it all makes sense from every position on the floor...
-With Jones it is worthless in every way possible. Weems is already under contract and does everything Jones does, if not better, so why waste money on Jones when you already have a guy who does the same thing for less money?
-Carter will be replaced by a better PG via the draft which will also be cheaper as well.
-We can't afford to re-sign Kleiza plain and simple, especially when you have a guy twice as productive as him in Balkman who would be an upgrade.
-Petro never got any playing time anyways so we never really knew how good he was, but King Stiff Hunter is most likely just as good as him anyways, so it makes no sense to re-sign Petro when you once again have a guy on the bench who does the same thing as Petro that you are already paying for. With that said, I do think we should try and move Hunter anyways since he is overpaid and there are other backup bigs who are better than him for cheaper.
Anyways, this is my scenario, let me know what you guys think.
Here is a situation in which we might make out the best, through the draft...
We need to draft a PG, and this draft is perfect. We should try and talk with some teams in the mid to late lottery about a trade with Nene. The reason I pick Nene is because his contract isn't THAT bad and he had a great showing this past year so his value should be high. If we landed somewhere between say, 6th and 20th, this would give us a shot at drafting either Curry, Jennings, Maynor, Flynn, Holliday, Mills, Evans, Teague, ect, all of which are going to be great PGs at the next level imo. Now, not only would we have a great backup PG and future prospect, but we would then free up about 9 mil which we could use to sign Birdman, which will likely cost around 3-5 mil a year and then use the rest to go after Sheed, or any other FA Center such as Okur or O'Neal (Jermaine). Sheed would be the ideal fit as he is basically a taller, declining Nene with better shooting and defending skills. It would also be nice to pair him up with Chauncey again. And I just get the feeling that he would fit in great with the rest of the guys, therefor creating solid chemistry on the floor. So, this would mean our lineup would look something like this...
PG Chancuey/great rookie via draft
SG JR/Weems
SF Melo/Balkman
PF K-Mart/Birdman
C Sheed/Hunter, or someone else via trade
This team above me looks just as good, if not better than the one we had on the floor this year. This team would also be under the cap. And this isn't including other FAs who we could sign at the vets minimum who may turn out alright as well. Of course there are many other options but I have thought it over and this seems to be one of the better ones for not only now but the future as well because we would be sitting on a great young PG along with Melo, JR and most likely another great FA in the summer of 2010 when K-Mart's contract expires. But for all of this to happen we can't re-sign anybody except Birdman and if you look at it, it all makes sense from every position on the floor...
-With Jones it is worthless in every way possible. Weems is already under contract and does everything Jones does, if not better, so why waste money on Jones when you already have a guy who does the same thing for less money?
-Carter will be replaced by a better PG via the draft which will also be cheaper as well.
-We can't afford to re-sign Kleiza plain and simple, especially when you have a guy twice as productive as him in Balkman who would be an upgrade.
-Petro never got any playing time anyways so we never really knew how good he was, but King Stiff Hunter is most likely just as good as him anyways, so it makes no sense to re-sign Petro when you once again have a guy on the bench who does the same thing as Petro that you are already paying for. With that said, I do think we should try and move Hunter anyways since he is overpaid and there are other backup bigs who are better than him for cheaper.
Anyways, this is my scenario, let me know what you guys think.
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 5:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
KarlSucks,
You just won't get it will u? Nene never got it done at the four and he won't get it done at the five. Nene hates defense, fouls, flops, whines, and hacks way too much. Nene is also soft around the basket which furthers his softness as a player. Kmart is the glue to this team on defense and his contract is not a dumpable or movable bad contract for bad contract. The thing with Kmart's contract is that people such as yourself have made it such a bad contract. No team is going to give fair value in any situation for Kmart therefore he is immovable. Nene however is still young and has a better reputation due to his offensive skills. However, Nene is not nearly as effective of a ball player as Kmart. And he is definitely not as effective as Kmart on the Nuggets. Rasheed Wallace is tough inside and he can move outside. He has played center for many both teams he has played for and he is a true big body. Detroit may resign him for the Nugs, then trade him for a draft pick plus Nene. Detroit won't do this with Kmart as they would be getting themselves back into what they are already in with Rasheed: older player with a big contract. Detroit is rebuilding and has no use for Kmart or Rasheed but probably a serious liking for Nene.
Remember Kmart is a winner with winning experience at many levels. Rasheed and Chauncey have the same winning experience to go with Melon and his experience. Nene however has done nothing but be on the Nuggets and get his you know what handed to him in international play.
Kmart is only outsized when he has to pick up the slack for Nene and guard a true center. Dirk doesn't outsize Kmart because Kmart is a lot more mobile than Dirk and he jumps twice as high. Kmart was the best defensive power forward in the NBA this year and got snubbed by the perennial defender KG.
Now if you are talking playing two seven footers in your starting lineup then you are talking about completely revamping the team. There is absolutely no way the Nugs are going to get a fair trade for a seven footer with Kmart. Then they would have to move Nene as well because is 6'9" and you are looking for two seven footers. The Nugs may get Rasheed Wallace for Nene but there is no way they are getting another seven footer worth their salt without letting go of JR and Kmart (and that is still probably a stretch).
The only way it can be done is if the Nuggets get rid of Nene. We need to start a chant or rename this page to "We Want Wallace!" We can chant it at Rockies and Bronco's games.
You just won't get it will u? Nene never got it done at the four and he won't get it done at the five. Nene hates defense, fouls, flops, whines, and hacks way too much. Nene is also soft around the basket which furthers his softness as a player. Kmart is the glue to this team on defense and his contract is not a dumpable or movable bad contract for bad contract. The thing with Kmart's contract is that people such as yourself have made it such a bad contract. No team is going to give fair value in any situation for Kmart therefore he is immovable. Nene however is still young and has a better reputation due to his offensive skills. However, Nene is not nearly as effective of a ball player as Kmart. And he is definitely not as effective as Kmart on the Nuggets. Rasheed Wallace is tough inside and he can move outside. He has played center for many both teams he has played for and he is a true big body. Detroit may resign him for the Nugs, then trade him for a draft pick plus Nene. Detroit won't do this with Kmart as they would be getting themselves back into what they are already in with Rasheed: older player with a big contract. Detroit is rebuilding and has no use for Kmart or Rasheed but probably a serious liking for Nene.
Remember Kmart is a winner with winning experience at many levels. Rasheed and Chauncey have the same winning experience to go with Melon and his experience. Nene however has done nothing but be on the Nuggets and get his you know what handed to him in international play.
Kmart is only outsized when he has to pick up the slack for Nene and guard a true center. Dirk doesn't outsize Kmart because Kmart is a lot more mobile than Dirk and he jumps twice as high. Kmart was the best defensive power forward in the NBA this year and got snubbed by the perennial defender KG.
Now if you are talking playing two seven footers in your starting lineup then you are talking about completely revamping the team. There is absolutely no way the Nugs are going to get a fair trade for a seven footer with Kmart. Then they would have to move Nene as well because is 6'9" and you are looking for two seven footers. The Nugs may get Rasheed Wallace for Nene but there is no way they are getting another seven footer worth their salt without letting go of JR and Kmart (and that is still probably a stretch).
The only way it can be done is if the Nuggets get rid of Nene. We need to start a chant or rename this page to "We Want Wallace!" We can chant it at Rockies and Bronco's games.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 5:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, JR Smith, Melo and Sheed on the same team? This would be asking for attitude problems. Never mind aging legs rather than fresher legs at PG and Center. No thanks.
by My3Cents on Jun 1, 2009 5:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Goldennugget,
I like your thinking a lot but there are a couple holes. How did you figure the Nugs wouldn't be over the cap with a first round pick plus the Bird and Rasheed contracts? If this is true, I think it makes a ton of sense.
The other is a little nit picky of me but Kmart has a player option for 2010-11 for 17 million or so. I think he may be willing to restructure his contract in order to keep him here until retirement and if he could do this then the Nuggets probably could afford Rasheed and the first rounder after dumping Nene.
Good thinking sir!
I like your thinking a lot but there are a couple holes. How did you figure the Nugs wouldn't be over the cap with a first round pick plus the Bird and Rasheed contracts? If this is true, I think it makes a ton of sense.
The other is a little nit picky of me but Kmart has a player option for 2010-11 for 17 million or so. I think he may be willing to restructure his contract in order to keep him here until retirement and if he could do this then the Nuggets probably could afford Rasheed and the first rounder after dumping Nene.
Good thinking sir!
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 5:52 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
My3 - The thing is, this team has been stacked full of personalities for a long time now, so it's not like one more is going to make a difference. Plus, Sheed is getting older and Chauncey and him played together so I am sure he respects what Chauncey would say to him if he ever got too out of line. But in my scenario we would be able to get a future, possibly an All-Star caliber PG to go with JR and Melo, plus it would open up tons of cap space in the summer of 2010 so that maybe we could lure someone like Stoudemire, Bosh or Dirk to play alongside Melo, Sheed, Chauncey, JR, Birdman, Weems, Balkman and our up and coming PG. So basically, my scenario would make us contenders for a long time, where as the one we have now is suited for the short term only.
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 5:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
My3Cents,
Nene has fresher legs? Didn't one of those legs break really recently as a Nugget just a couple years ago? Didn't Nene quit against the Lakers? Aren't the Nuggets just a step away from winning a title? Isn't the time to win now?
Chauncey is the player coach and the leader of the Nuggets. Rasheed and JR have listened to Chauncey in the past and Melon acted like he would a couple times. There is nothing that can be done about Melon. Melon will be Melon and the defense just has to be better around him. He is one of the most deadly offensive players in the NBA and it is the duty of the Nuggets front office to put defenders and three point shooters around him. Rasheed fills both these voids. Additionally us as fans finally saw some defense out of Carmelo in the playoffs and that just goes to show you that he knows how when it counts.
Nene has fresher legs? Didn't one of those legs break really recently as a Nugget just a couple years ago? Didn't Nene quit against the Lakers? Aren't the Nuggets just a step away from winning a title? Isn't the time to win now?
Chauncey is the player coach and the leader of the Nuggets. Rasheed and JR have listened to Chauncey in the past and Melon acted like he would a couple times. There is nothing that can be done about Melon. Melon will be Melon and the defense just has to be better around him. He is one of the most deadly offensive players in the NBA and it is the duty of the Nuggets front office to put defenders and three point shooters around him. Rasheed fills both these voids. Additionally us as fans finally saw some defense out of Carmelo in the playoffs and that just goes to show you that he knows how when it counts.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 6:02 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Kyle - If we don't re-sign any of the guys I mentioned we will be sitting on about 69 mil, which is right at the tax for next year. Nene makes about 10 mil a year. So take away 10 mil and you are at around 58-59. Bird should command about 3-5 mil a year, so lets say 4and the rookie should demand about 1-2 mil depending on where he gets drafted. So lets say we trade up to Milwuakee at 10 since they could use a PF after Villanueva skips town. This would mean our rookie would make close to 2 mil, but again, we could trade up to a lower position, say to Chicago at 16 and that would mean we would pay the rook closer to 1 mil, so it depends where we go. Lets just say we trade up to 10 though and pay him 2 mil. This means we would be sitting on about 4 mil to spare. I figure Sheed would command about 7 mil, so we would be 3 mil short. I guess I figured wrong with all the money, but even so, we could trade Hunter for a salary dump and that would make up for the rest of the money to obtain Sheed. So, yeah I did figure a bit wrong with my numbers but I got close and you never know what ultimately shakes out. Maybe K-Mart restructure his contract like you said or maybe Bird would take less money to stay in Denver. So those things you have to take into account as well. But from my perspective I think this would be a great scenario and it sounds like you do as well.
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 6:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed Goldennugget. We Want Wallace, We Want Wallace! Maybe the FO will grow a pair.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 6:28 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Sheed will get more like 12 to 14 though. I guess we'll see what market brings. If Chapman says they will pay to win then we have the scenario.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 1, 2009 6:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Kyle, I don't think he will get near that. I was thinking the most would be around 10 mil a year. He already makes 13 and that was from when he signed a long time ago in his prime. I think realistically he should sign anywhere between 7-9 mil per year, but we will have to wait and see. If that is the case lets hope we can sign Birdman for less. I know Bird would love to stay in Denver but there are going to be some
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 7:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lucrative offers from other teams. I am thinking some teams will offer him close to 6 mil per year so it will be tough keeping him and signing Sheed but I think it would be a great move.
by Goldennugget on Jun 1, 2009 7:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a few people here are a little off:
K-Mart got outplayed by both Nowitzki and Gasol because he is undersized. He's also a better defender against small guys (Kobe) than bigs. He's not much of a rebounder, his athleticism is not what it once was, and he's a hustle player. Really he's an ideal backup 3-4...but that's exactly Birdman's role.
Nene is not a good rebounder either, and he gets taken out of the game mentally, but he is, the rarest thing on this team; a smart player. Nene is unselfish and passes well; he is, alas really a backup 3-4 as well on a championship team, and a good starting 4 on a good team.
Carmelo Anthony played great, but he's not the smartest player in the world and never will be. That's the thing that separates him from the Wade, LeBron, Kobe level.
I think Jones should have actually played more than he did; he's Martin minus 3 inches and 2 lbs. but his rebounding and physicality clearly hurt the lakers.
Billups got a whole lot of love here, and deserved it but I was astounded by just how slow he looks. He's a a one-man four corners: Like Christoper Walken said in True Romance;
"thats as good as it gets, and it ain't never gonna be that good again!" With Chauncey.
JR is, and always will be an enigma. He has skills but I think his numbers are better than he is, if I'm the coach and he misses his first three shots, he never gets off the bench again for the rest of the game. When he is playing badly his sulking, cripwalking, etc., seem to suck the life out of the team.
Birdman is, yet another backup 4. Some genius on the team right now is thinking "if he could get 3 blocked shots and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes, imagine what he could do in 40." And will pay him accordingly.
It never works that way in real life, Anderson is Camby with less upper body strength, younger legs, and a better knowledge of his limitations....
And Kleiza is a JR with less melanin and more body fat. He's basically a one position (SF) player playing behind one of the best in the game. These guys have limited value as backups. You'd like to see Kleiza really get in shape and motivated, but it really doesn't seem like his personality.
AC is good for what he is...a BACKUP pg, they should bring in a young guy to compete with him.
Balkman is what he is, unfortunately that is also what Martin, and Nene are; undersized backups, and his offensive game makes K-Mart look like Dr. J.
My recommendations:
Trade K-Mart for Eddy Curry, the Knicks would probably give him away right now, and undersized tough guys (Marion, etc.) do well in D'Antoni's system. Or maybe even Boozer, it's not totally out of the question if you think about it, the Jazz may prefer Milsap to giving Boozer a 100 million dollar deal, and Martin is a better defensive player.
Resign Birdman at a reasonable number, otherwise let him walk.
Re-sign AC and Dante, they will be reasonable, and they play good defense.
Actively seek a trade for JR. He can play, but like AI his trade value probably exceeds his real value.
Hold the Kleiza decision for last
K-Mart got outplayed by both Nowitzki and Gasol because he is undersized. He's also a better defender against small guys (Kobe) than bigs. He's not much of a rebounder, his athleticism is not what it once was, and he's a hustle player. Really he's an ideal backup 3-4...but that's exactly Birdman's role.
Nene is not a good rebounder either, and he gets taken out of the game mentally, but he is, the rarest thing on this team; a smart player. Nene is unselfish and passes well; he is, alas really a backup 3-4 as well on a championship team, and a good starting 4 on a good team.
Carmelo Anthony played great, but he's not the smartest player in the world and never will be. That's the thing that separates him from the Wade, LeBron, Kobe level.
I think Jones should have actually played more than he did; he's Martin minus 3 inches and 2 lbs. but his rebounding and physicality clearly hurt the lakers.
Billups got a whole lot of love here, and deserved it but I was astounded by just how slow he looks. He's a a one-man four corners: Like Christoper Walken said in True Romance;
"thats as good as it gets, and it ain't never gonna be that good again!" With Chauncey.
JR is, and always will be an enigma. He has skills but I think his numbers are better than he is, if I'm the coach and he misses his first three shots, he never gets off the bench again for the rest of the game. When he is playing badly his sulking, cripwalking, etc., seem to suck the life out of the team.
Birdman is, yet another backup 4. Some genius on the team right now is thinking "if he could get 3 blocked shots and 6 rebounds in 20 minutes, imagine what he could do in 40." And will pay him accordingly.
It never works that way in real life, Anderson is Camby with less upper body strength, younger legs, and a better knowledge of his limitations....
And Kleiza is a JR with less melanin and more body fat. He's basically a one position (SF) player playing behind one of the best in the game. These guys have limited value as backups. You'd like to see Kleiza really get in shape and motivated, but it really doesn't seem like his personality.
AC is good for what he is...a BACKUP pg, they should bring in a young guy to compete with him.
Balkman is what he is, unfortunately that is also what Martin, and Nene are; undersized backups, and his offensive game makes K-Mart look like Dr. J.
My recommendations:
Trade K-Mart for Eddy Curry, the Knicks would probably give him away right now, and undersized tough guys (Marion, etc.) do well in D'Antoni's system. Or maybe even Boozer, it's not totally out of the question if you think about it, the Jazz may prefer Milsap to giving Boozer a 100 million dollar deal, and Martin is a better defensive player.
Resign Birdman at a reasonable number, otherwise let him walk.
Re-sign AC and Dante, they will be reasonable, and they play good defense.
Actively seek a trade for JR. He can play, but like AI his trade value probably exceeds his real value.
Hold the Kleiza decision for last
by Truth on Jun 1, 2009 7:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfairley Derided my as s. I've blogged with a many of you during games, and you all saw what AC was. He wasn't even a backup. So many games he fuck ed up and all of you saw it(Melo bailed his ass out, then we lost because he didn't know how to call a time out and threw the ball where it could be stolen) and that's just to mention a few costly fuc k ups. Now you'r talking shi t that he is Unfairley Derided. You're on dope.
The MF is at best a coc k sucker basketball player, who can't play defense and has no offense. Backup my as s. He can't do that.
Fire George Karl, cause he is a proven loser in finals, never has and never will win the Larry O'brien Trophy and get a taller back up to Chauncy who can play defense and is able to hit a wide open j.
UNFAIRLEY DERIDED! This is AC. UNFAIRLEY DERIDED? This is the one man turnover.UNFAIRLEY DERIDED? This is an epizoon that can't make a wide open jump shot except maybe once every 20 games.UNFAIRLEY DERIDED, this is the person who the opposing team loves to see so they can exploit the pick and roll. UNFAIRLELY DERIDED. What a crock of shi t
The MF is at best a coc k sucker basketball player, who can't play defense and has no offense. Backup my as s. He can't do that.
Fire George Karl, cause he is a proven loser in finals, never has and never will win the Larry O'brien Trophy and get a taller back up to Chauncy who can play defense and is able to hit a wide open j.
UNFAIRLEY DERIDED! This is AC. UNFAIRLEY DERIDED? This is the one man turnover.UNFAIRLEY DERIDED? This is an epizoon that can't make a wide open jump shot except maybe once every 20 games.UNFAIRLEY DERIDED, this is the person who the opposing team loves to see so they can exploit the pick and roll. UNFAIRLELY DERIDED. What a crock of shi t
by SamIam on Jun 1, 2009 9:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
lol, nearly every team in the league (or at least their front office) thinks that sheed is the one to get them over the top.
truth is, sheeds good days are over.. he was playing half-assed the whole year. camping at the three-point-line, playing unmotivated and picking up stupid techs..
trust me, i´m a pistons & rasheed wallace fan, but don´t overestimate what he has left in the tank..
truth is, sheeds good days are over.. he was playing half-assed the whole year. camping at the three-point-line, playing unmotivated and picking up stupid techs..
trust me, i´m a pistons & rasheed wallace fan, but don´t overestimate what he has left in the tank..
by Anonymous on Jun 2, 2009 6:41 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Let me play defense for the Nuggets and I could "hold" Nowitski, Duncan, and Gasol to 35 points....
Martin has no trade value, even if he had a reasonable contract, because he's not that good and doesn't work to get better. He gets 11 points and 6 rebounds a game, while throwing in several camby-esque shots per game, and a tech or two for fun. If A.I. and Camby had a child it would be K-Mart. Tries hard on defense, takes bad shots, has a bad attitude, and the team gets better when he is traded.
Unfortunately, he probably can't be traded.
Martin has no trade value, even if he had a reasonable contract, because he's not that good and doesn't work to get better. He gets 11 points and 6 rebounds a game, while throwing in several camby-esque shots per game, and a tech or two for fun. If A.I. and Camby had a child it would be K-Mart. Tries hard on defense, takes bad shots, has a bad attitude, and the team gets better when he is traded.
Unfortunately, he probably can't be traded.
by KarlSucks on Jun 2, 2009 8:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
This truth guy would truly ruin the team. Must be a Timberwolves fan, LOL! He likes all the problems with the Nuggets and wants to change the good. Why even blog when you have to deal with people like him and Goldennugget, LOL.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 2, 2009 9:56 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Goldennugget but I meant KarlSucks.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 2, 2009 9:57 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Can we please stop the Nene trade talks? He is a PF playing at c, so yes he is outsized in the post. We can't really blame him for that. For what it's worth, he punished quite a few centers an Pfs all season long.
Keeping Melo, JR, and Nene together is a key to future success. Bring in a young trainable PG for Chauncey to mold into Denver's gratest PG og all time. (I know I'm ahead of myself on that one) Bring in a big so nene can play his natural position. Find a new coach to fill the chair until Chauncey takes over.
Until Kenyon's salary is off of the books Denver's hands are tied up. So suck it up for the next two seasons. We may not be the best team, but we won't suck either. I see the Nuggs being Western contenders for a few more seasons. And if the FO does their job, we'll be sitting atop the West in 3 years time waiting to take on LeBron and the Knicks in the 2012 NBA Finals.
Don't let the chant die in the offseason...GO NUGGETS!
Keeping Melo, JR, and Nene together is a key to future success. Bring in a young trainable PG for Chauncey to mold into Denver's gratest PG og all time. (I know I'm ahead of myself on that one) Bring in a big so nene can play his natural position. Find a new coach to fill the chair until Chauncey takes over.
Until Kenyon's salary is off of the books Denver's hands are tied up. So suck it up for the next two seasons. We may not be the best team, but we won't suck either. I see the Nuggs being Western contenders for a few more seasons. And if the FO does their job, we'll be sitting atop the West in 3 years time waiting to take on LeBron and the Knicks in the 2012 NBA Finals.
Don't let the chant die in the offseason...GO NUGGETS!
by Joelsopinion on Jun 2, 2009 11:59 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there any chance that we can package some sort of Hunter/Kleiza/Pick deal for a PG or center? That package isn't that bad, considering the other team would get a decent outside shooting big (granted he's been shakey) but only for one season. Not to mention an expiring contract in Hunter and an additional draft pick.
I could see a team biting at that sort of bait, unless I'm missing something obvious.
I could see a team biting at that sort of bait, unless I'm missing something obvious.
by Denverson on Jun 2, 2009 9:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Denverson,
The Nugs salary cap is what you are missing. They need to unload a big contract to get a big time center. The Nuggets also do not need an expensive/really good/up an coming PG. If the nugs need a backup to Billups they should get a young minimum contract guy that maybe Chauncey can mold. It would be a serious waste of salary for the Nuggets to get a PG because they have at least 3 years left of Billups. If a PG needs 3 years of mentoring from Billups then he isn't going to be any good anyway. All this PG bull has been created by fans that obviously don't really know the Nuggets or the game of basketball. The Nuggets need a center and I believe Rasheed Wallace fits that bill. The only way they are going to get him or someone with talents similar to his is if they get rid of Nene. Nene, AC, and George Karl have been the three problems for the Nuggets this year and if they can replace these three guys with players/coaches that fit with this team and improve them against LA and Houston then they can have a good chance at a title next year.
The Nugs salary cap is what you are missing. They need to unload a big contract to get a big time center. The Nuggets also do not need an expensive/really good/up an coming PG. If the nugs need a backup to Billups they should get a young minimum contract guy that maybe Chauncey can mold. It would be a serious waste of salary for the Nuggets to get a PG because they have at least 3 years left of Billups. If a PG needs 3 years of mentoring from Billups then he isn't going to be any good anyway. All this PG bull has been created by fans that obviously don't really know the Nuggets or the game of basketball. The Nuggets need a center and I believe Rasheed Wallace fits that bill. The only way they are going to get him or someone with talents similar to his is if they get rid of Nene. Nene, AC, and George Karl have been the three problems for the Nuggets this year and if they can replace these three guys with players/coaches that fit with this team and improve them against LA and Houston then they can have a good chance at a title next year.
by Kyle Scott on Jun 3, 2009 10:56 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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