Iverson vs Billups Round 1: Looking back at the trade that changed the season...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jan 8, 2009 11:45 PM MST
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When the news broke on November 3rd that the Nuggets had traded future Hall-of-Famer Allen Iverson to the Detroit Pistons for hometown hero Chauncey Billups, Friday night's Pistons at Nuggets game immediately became the biggest home game of the season.All day tomorrow you're going to hear the following numbers over and over: 24-9 vs. 17-12. That's the Nuggets record with Billups and the Pistons record with Iverson, respectively. The fact that the Nuggets have won 73% of their games with Billups is almost jaw dropping. Whereas the Pistons seem to have shaken off the Iverson integration process by winning seven of their last eight games (god forbid they beat the Blazers on Wednesday night) and are on pace for a respectable 52-win season.
All that being said, this trade is still a win-win for both organizations. The Nuggets got exactly what they wanted: a quality point guard to feed, control and lead a talented lineup lacking a true leader. And the same goes for the Pistons. They wanted immediate cap relief while still remaining competitive in the Eastern Conference, and any team featuring a semi-healthy A.I. will be competitive. He's that good.
What I find interesting - and I say this as an admitted A.I. fan - is that the Pistons inconsistency with whom they beat and whom they don't beat with Iverson feels a lot like last season's Nuggets. With Iverson, the Pistons have some big time wins against big time opponents, like the Lakers, Cavaliers, Spurs and Magic. And yet they've lost to several of the NBA's bottom feeders, like the Timberwolves, Wizards, 76ers and Knicks. Comparatively, the Nuggets with Billups haven't lost a single game to a sub-.500 team, and only lose to big time opponents.
I'm not trying to pick on Iverson now that he's out of Denver (I'll leave that to George Karl...I couldn't resist), but I thought it was worth pointing out. Because as we witnessed with the 2007-08 Nuggets - perhaps the single most disappointing 50-win season in NBA history - those handful of unacceptable losses can be the difference between an eighth seed and a fourth seed in the playoffs.
Before signing off for the night, I want to tell a quick A.I. story that I've been meaning to post about because I think it's cute and says a lot about his tenure in a Nuggets uniform.
Soon after A.I. was traded to Denver in early January 2007, my mother saw him at the Mexican restaurant Tula off of Josephine in Cherry Creek. Completely unaware of A.I.'s reputation from his Philadelphia days as being closed off and downright surly with strangers who approached him in public, my mother (being my mother) decides to go up and say hi. As she tells the story, A.I. was sitting at the bar with one of his (gigantic) boys minding his own business. My mother goes up to him and says: "Are you Allen Iverson?" He turns toward her and with a skeptical look on his face responds: "Uh, yeah." And then my mother serves up: "I'm a lifelong Nuggets season ticket holder, and I just want you to know that we love how hard you play, are thrilled to have you here and hope you stay for a long time" or something along those lines. She said A.I. instantaneously smiled from ear to ear and said glowingly: "Thank you. Thank you so much. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that." And then added that it looked like the weight of the world had just been lifted from his shoulders. As if he could finally be a normal guy in a normal place.
I'm sure after all the years in Virginia, Georgetown and then Philadelphia, A.I. must have been tugged, pestered, and bothered by so many people wanting so many things from him that playing basketball was his only respite from the nonsense. My mother's story was a quick, one-minute encounter. But I bet you A.I. genuinely loved his time in Denver and wished he could have finished his career as a Nugget. And if that story doesn't convince you, watch this video posted on the Rocky Mountain News' website...
Friday night's matchup is sure to be an emotional one for A.I., Billups and their former teammates and coaches on both sides. I hope A.I. has a great game - I really do - and the Nuggets squash them by 15.
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I hope we can squash them by 15..it'll be embarrasing to lose in the Pepsi Center.
by Kohaku on Jan 9, 2009 1:20 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
My biggest disappointment in the Denver experiment was Nene’s inability to stay on the court during Iverson’s tenure. Nene was a perfect big man for Iverson to operate with inside - catch, collect, and dunk, while defending the post well. If opposing bigs try to stop Iverson's dribble, he could punish them by shoveling to Nene for the easy score.
A healthy Nene, and the Iverson Nuggets would have made things a lot more interesting. (Well, that, and Karl figuring out that he needed to play Iverson more minutes at point with J.R. at shooting guard...)
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"What I find interesting - and I say this as an admitted A.I. fan - is that the Pistons inconsistency with whom they beat and whom they don't beat with Iverson feels a lot like last season's Nuggets. With Iverson, the Pistons have some big time wins against big time opponents, like the Lakers, Cavaliers, Spurs and Magic. And yet they've lost to several of the NBA's bottom feeders, like the Timberwolves, Wizards, 76ers and Knicks."
Here are some stats that prove the case.
The Pistons have the 7th best margin (and the 4th best record) in the league against good teams, but only the 21st best margin in the league against bad teams.
The Nuggets, OTOH, have the 14th best margin in the league against good teams, and the 4th best margin the league against bad teams.
The difference between Andrew and me? I strongly prefer the Pistons' profile. To go deep, you need to be competitive with the elite.
In late April, May, and June, you are only playing against good teams, so I'd rather be above average against good teams than above average against bad teams. You guys have an absolute ceiling of winning a round or two in the playoffs. The Pistons have a ceiling of actually winning it all, if a few breaks go their way.
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"The Nuggets got exactly what they wanted: a quality point guard to feed, control and lead a talented lineup lacking a true leader. And the same goes for the Pistons. They wanted immediate cap relief while still remaining competitive in the Eastern Conference"
I agree with the win-win aspect of the trade, but I think you're missing a bit of the Pistons' motivation. Beyond having cap space in '09 or '10, they also needed Iverson to have someone who could attract double-teams in order to be better this springtime.
It's next to impossible to win a seven game series against an elite team or two without having a guy who can attract extra defenders and let everyone else play 4 on 3. That's what Iverson brings, and trading Billups for Iverson allows the Pistons to be more of a threat this year to actually beat the Bostons, Clevelands, and LA's of the world in the playoffs.
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January 9th, baby. January 9th...
Chauncey will try to post up Iverson four times, and will score only once.
J.R. will be utterly on fire as he gets to show off for Bubbachuck.
Kenyon will start to deliver a crushing cheap shot to Iverson as he drives into the lane, remember that he likes Iverson, and let the and-one take place.
If Steve Javie is working the game, he will eject Iverson in the second quarter for chewing on his mouthguard.
We'll be behind all game, and Rasheed will hit a 92ft hook shot at the buzzer to win it...
A healthy Nene, and the Iverson Nuggets would have made things a lot more interesting. (Well, that, and Karl figuring out that he needed to play Iverson more minutes at point with J.R. at shooting guard...)
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"What I find interesting - and I say this as an admitted A.I. fan - is that the Pistons inconsistency with whom they beat and whom they don't beat with Iverson feels a lot like last season's Nuggets. With Iverson, the Pistons have some big time wins against big time opponents, like the Lakers, Cavaliers, Spurs and Magic. And yet they've lost to several of the NBA's bottom feeders, like the Timberwolves, Wizards, 76ers and Knicks."
Here are some stats that prove the case.
The Pistons have the 7th best margin (and the 4th best record) in the league against good teams, but only the 21st best margin in the league against bad teams.
The Nuggets, OTOH, have the 14th best margin in the league against good teams, and the 4th best margin the league against bad teams.
The difference between Andrew and me? I strongly prefer the Pistons' profile. To go deep, you need to be competitive with the elite.
In late April, May, and June, you are only playing against good teams, so I'd rather be above average against good teams than above average against bad teams. You guys have an absolute ceiling of winning a round or two in the playoffs. The Pistons have a ceiling of actually winning it all, if a few breaks go their way.
-----
"The Nuggets got exactly what they wanted: a quality point guard to feed, control and lead a talented lineup lacking a true leader. And the same goes for the Pistons. They wanted immediate cap relief while still remaining competitive in the Eastern Conference"
I agree with the win-win aspect of the trade, but I think you're missing a bit of the Pistons' motivation. Beyond having cap space in '09 or '10, they also needed Iverson to have someone who could attract double-teams in order to be better this springtime.
It's next to impossible to win a seven game series against an elite team or two without having a guy who can attract extra defenders and let everyone else play 4 on 3. That's what Iverson brings, and trading Billups for Iverson allows the Pistons to be more of a threat this year to actually beat the Bostons, Clevelands, and LA's of the world in the playoffs.
-----
January 9th, baby. January 9th...
Chauncey will try to post up Iverson four times, and will score only once.
J.R. will be utterly on fire as he gets to show off for Bubbachuck.
Kenyon will start to deliver a crushing cheap shot to Iverson as he drives into the lane, remember that he likes Iverson, and let the and-one take place.
If Steve Javie is working the game, he will eject Iverson in the second quarter for chewing on his mouthguard.
We'll be behind all game, and Rasheed will hit a 92ft hook shot at the buzzer to win it...
by Petey on Jan 9, 2009 6:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Petey is drunk and it is only 5:30 in the morning!!! The NBA elite are all about beating up the bad teams and playing .500 against the top teams. That gets you home court advantage for the first two rounds and that gets you seeded as the BETTER team for the first two rounds, so you can beat up on some lower seeded teams in the first couple of rounds. Teams that lose to the bottom feeders in the NBA end up paying for it come playoff time when they have to play on the road in the playoffs.
by Anonymous on Jan 9, 2009 8:26 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
"Petey is drunk and it is only 5:30 in the morning!!!"
What's the use of gettin' sober, when you're gonna get drunk again?
What's the use of gettin' sober, when you're gonna get drunk again?
by Petey on Jan 9, 2009 9:34 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
i enjoyed watching ai get the foul, AND make the basket. but, the team is better now... and more fun to watch. it is not just the wins, it is the flavor of the team.
by Anonymous on Jan 9, 2009 9:38 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I really hope the Nuggets sign Darius Miles to a ten day contract. If they were brought to court, they could claim that they needed an extra body to help while Melo is injured.
by Anonymous on Jan 9, 2009 10:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I hope the Nuggets sign Darius Miles to a ten day contract. They are about the only team that could do it. They could claim in any court that they simply wanted to get an extra body while Melo was out. No way they loose that.
by Anonymous on Jan 9, 2009 10:17 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I too, am always going to be an AI fan no matter what. Nobody plays harder than he does each and every night. But kind of like Petey said, I just wish we could have played a full season with Camby, Nene, K-Mart, and everyone else completely healthy. Still, the bottom line is we are better off today with Chauncy, our lord and saviour, than we have ever been with anybody. It is just too bad that we couldn't have obtained a legit PG with AI still here. I have got a good night planned ahead of me, watch Celtics at Cavs then straight to Nuggets vs Pistons, then straight to the bars. I can't wait to watch JR go off agian to solidify his place as one of the best players in the league not to start. And one more thing about what Petey said with the whole record of beating good teams as opposed to that of beating bad teams, the Pacers also beat really good teams but they aren't winning a title anytime soon, and that record didn't get the Nuggets anywhere in the playoffs last year, so I have no reason to believe it will with the Pistons this year. I think the Pistons could make the Eastern Confrence Finals but I doubt they win the East. Where as the Nuggets are looking more and more like the 3rd best team in the West every minute.
by Goldennugget on Jan 9, 2009 11:26 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Nuggets fans don't keep drinking the Kool-Aid you'll see what I mean when the Nuggets get rolled again in the first round by legitimate teams. Trading a great player for a very good player has worked out well but imagine if our lazy front office/coach had looked to find a suitable point guard to pair up with AI or work to accommodate his incredible unique talent. How in the world did he get Philly to the Finals with Eric Snow and Aaron Mckie? Everyone who listens to the clowns on the radio/tv just buys into this theory that AI's style couldn't mesh with Melo's "there just not enough basketballs to share" and that's the easy way out too bad AI didn't get to play with a healthy Nene and too bad it took them so long to find someone that could lead and run a team that's just not what AI does what he does is puts up 30 in his sleep while drawing double teams and getting to the line. Warkentein could have gotten someone decent in exchange for Camby and K-Mart I guarantee Mo Williams or Tinsley or Jameer Nelson
by Anonymous on Jan 9, 2009 11:30 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'll be at the game in 134, row BB right behind the hoop on the nuggets side but closer to the players entry tunnel on opposite side of benches.
Hopefully I can psyche AI out of some free throws. I plan on mooning him if I get enough Goose in me! LOL
Look for me, my buddy, and two hot chicks (one is my fiance), or me my fiance, my buddy and my other buddy if my one buddy strikes out on finding a hot bitch date for the night... LOL, I know that basically means anyone looking in that section will have basically no idea who I am, and frankly as crazy as some of you posters are, I prefer it that way!
Go Nugs! (crossing fingers that I can actually attend a big game for once and see us pull out a W)
Hopefully I can psyche AI out of some free throws. I plan on mooning him if I get enough Goose in me! LOL
Look for me, my buddy, and two hot chicks (one is my fiance), or me my fiance, my buddy and my other buddy if my one buddy strikes out on finding a hot bitch date for the night... LOL, I know that basically means anyone looking in that section will have basically no idea who I am, and frankly as crazy as some of you posters are, I prefer it that way!
Go Nugs! (crossing fingers that I can actually attend a big game for once and see us pull out a W)
by Eric K on Jan 9, 2009 11:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
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