How do you define a good coaching job?...

by Andrew Feinstein on Dec 28, 2008 3:16 PM MST

I'm completely perplexed by Nuggets head coach George Karl.

At the halfway point through the fourth quarter of the Nuggets/Knicks game, I was convinced the Nuggets were going to lose and I was going to pin the loss on Karl. The basis for my argument was that Karl can't have it both ways: if he wants to sit there for three-and-a-half quarters doing nothing and the team consistently wins, fine. But if the team loses, he can't lay the blame onto the players.

Up to and until that point in the game, Karl literally didn't move the entire game (at least from what I could tell on TV). He didn't work the refs, didn't call a timeout when the Nuggets allowed an 11-point lead to get erased soon after halftime, clearly didn't call any plays, and didn't even stand up once, except to walk to the locker room at halftime. From my vantage point, Karl just got paid to get a cozy front row seat at Madison Square Garden.

And yet, the Nuggets still won handily down the stretch, continued their undefeated streak against sub-par teams, are sitting at 20-11 and are on pace for 53 wins. Can I really complain about this?

A lot of this blog's readers would say yes. Even when the Nuggets could do no wrong a few weeks ago, this blog and my email box got inundated with comments about how the Nuggets are winning in spite of Karl and all the credit is really due to Chauncey Billups' leadership. And as soon as the Nuggets started dropping games to real teams last week, the comments and emails have only intensified.

For now, I have to stand by my case that we - as fans - can't call for a coach to be fired when the team has a +.600 winning percentage. We may not like a lot of things he does from game-to-game (like today's Madison Square Garden "sit in" by the entire coaching staff), but the results are speaking for themselves. Regular season only, of course.

But your comments - along with the slew of coach firings in the NBA this season - had me thinking throughout the Christmas holiday: how do you define a good coaching job?

I watched all five NBA games on Christmas Day (yes, I'm officially an NBA degenerate) with that question in mind, and during the Lakers/Celtics game in particular. I think most of us would agree that Doc Rivers has done one hell of a coaching job the past two seasons. But would any of us have called him a good coach three seasons before? Hell no. That's because the NBA is a players' league and whether your coach is Rivers, Karl or even Phil Jackson, without great players you'll never have a great team.

On display Thursday were a lot of good coaches: Byron Scott, Stan Van Gundy (my personal favorite along with Jerry Sloan), Gregg Popovich, Phil Jackson, Rivers and Nate McMillan. Did you see Van Gundy working his team over even though they were blowing out their opponent? And did you see Popovich draw up yet another masterful end-of-game play to sink the Suns? It was exceptional coaching.

So what makes these guys good coaches? Since the NBA is a players' league, I define good or bad coaching based on this premise: did he do a lot with a lot (of talent), a lot with a little, about what was expected, or a little with a lot? I know that sounds obvious and overly simplistic, but I think it's a good measure of a coach's performance.

Consider the 2007-08 Nuggets under Karl. I'd argue that Karl did a little with a lot of talent. Yeah, the Nuggets won 50 games. But so what? They dropped numerous games to god awful teams in the regular season, rewarded themselves with an eighth seed and were rolled over by the Lakers in the first round. That's doing the least with the most. Get it? Conversely, Doc Rivers did a lot with a lot of talent, steamrolled the NBA during the regular season and won the NBA Championship.

This season, Rivers is at it again (losing to the Warriors on Saturday notwithstanding), as are Jackson and Popovich. Scott is doing about what was expected of him, as are Sloan, McMillan and the Rockets' Rick Adelman. Other coaches may have teams that aren't quite as stacked as the Celtics or Lakers, but they're doing a lot more than what was expected. That would include Van Gundy, the Cavaliers' Mike Brown and Karl. Yes, Karl - unarguably - is guiding the Nuggets to a better record than any of us expected.

The most remarkable coaching job this season? That would go to the Nets' Lawrence Frank who's doing a lot with very little. Try naming five Nets players not including Devin Harris and Vince Carter. Mike D'Antoni was on that list for a while, but the Knicks have imploded since gutting their team to make cap room for 2010.

And who's doing the littlest with what they've got? That'd be the Pistons' Michael Curry, the Suns' Terry Porter, and whoever is coaching the Sixers, Wizards and Raptors these days.

I like this "lot with a little or little with a lot" measure for coaching performance, and I wish General Managers gave it consideration before axing the guys they hired in the first place. I'm no Reggie Theus fan, but he got completely screwed in Sacramento this season. GM Geoff Petrie gave Theus nothing - nothing - to work with player-wise, and yet Theus had them playing competitively last season and much of this season. Same goes for the situation Kevin McHale put Randy Wittman into in Minneapolis (and we see how well McHale is doing coaching the same roster).

Back to Karl. When Karl starts doing the littlest with a lot on a consistent basis again like last season, I'll be the first to call for his firing. But for now, I don't see why the Nuggets need to be the seventh team to make a coaching change this season.

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Andrew...I understand your comments on Karl. The Nuggets are being coached, essentially, by Chauncey and the last three game's he's done pretty much nothing to help the team win or lose....

With that being said. The three game losing streak almost seemed to serve as an excuse for people to take an negative slant on everything. Now even wins are looked at negatively.

I hope that we can start taking more pleasure in the Nuggets victories. Coach Chauncey is doing as well as he can and like JR said "In Chauncey we trust"...there's our savior.

by Jeff on Dec 28, 2008 5:11 PM MST reply actions

I looked at that first paragraph again. I mean that KARL has done pretty much nothing to help them win or lose...

lol

by Jeff on Dec 28, 2008 5:18 PM MST reply actions

What's questionable for me is his player rotation. Suddenly Balkman gets a ton of minutes, yet Anderson didn't even play I don't think.

Now I know that the NBA is truly a match-up sport. And as such, certain players will play more on given nights than others. The Knicks have a weird lineup, and it required a different look. I get that.

But Balkman has been glued to the bench for weeks, and nobody knows why. And today he gets a ton of playing time, maybe because it was his old team or something. I don't know. Maybe GK is trying new things, trying to find what works before the season really heats up after the AS Break.

I just found that odd.

by Chris C. on Dec 28, 2008 5:23 PM MST reply actions

There is plenty we just don't know but my gut tells me he is a coach who keeps his distance from the players, I don't think he maintains a ' We are family ' team. Is that the best approach to coach this current group of Nuggets ? Maybe.
I still can't stand the body language during the games and his awful post game interviews but hell that's just me. I think he is not capable of winning the big one's and that is what I find the most frustrating.
He looks bored and appears diffident during his post game interviews, win or lose. Hell - he is interviewed while sitting on a bench or a chair looking UP at the mikes and reporters, it looks more like an interrogation of a child.I mean this is the coach of a professional sports team. At least appear to look and act like a leader.

by markp on Dec 28, 2008 6:21 PM MST reply actions

Yeah I know why we should make a coaching change Andrew. Because Karl sucks, really needs to go on a diet before he becomes Andy Reid, and the way he sits on his fat ar$e sucking on cough drops every game, it's inevitable. Make Chanucey a player-coach if he wants, or hand the reins to Adrian Dantley. It's painful watching him do shit all, and having to listen to the media give him credit for doing "a lot with a little".

by Jack on Dec 28, 2008 7:37 PM MST reply actions

Dantley should be the coach. He would have a no one gets in our lane policy like sloan and rivers do. In stead of karl's let them do whatever thy want to rule. If this team doesn't win the division and get out of the first round it's all on Karl. PS I still think he should call hac-a-shac at least once in a while.

by 1Nugs1 on Dec 28, 2008 7:49 PM MST reply actions

"And who's doing the littlest with what they've got?"

Iavaclueless, hands down. A team that features OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay and Marc Gasol, along with decent reserves like Warrick, Lowry and Darrell Arthurh, should have at least 5 more wins.

by Catalan on Dec 28, 2008 8:28 PM MST reply actions

In other words you're giving him a free pass like the rest of the media. It's just a matter that he's taking the credit that Billup's has instilled. JR told the world who was in charge when he said "In Chauncy we trust". Why would JR lie? Why would you be so nieve?
Also you forgot about how Bzedlic was robbed of coaching the Nuggets. He had injuries galore.
Things that make you go uhmmm!!

by Anonymous on Dec 28, 2008 8:45 PM MST reply actions

I was completely perplexed on why Karl took out Smith in place of Billups and left Carter in instead, considering how good JR was playing all night. I wasn't able to watch the game and just tracked it online, but when Karl yanked JR out, he already had 16 points, 7-12 fg, 2-5 3pts, 3 asts, 3 stls, 1 TO. Compared to Carter who really killed me with those numerous turnovers to start the quarter. I kept saying WTF to myself until the end. Fortunately, Nuggs still won.

by CASABLANCAS on Dec 28, 2008 10:06 PM MST reply actions

I think we all realize that Karl will be the "coach" for the rest of this season. I'm just wondering why my gut is telling me that he will have another chance after yet another first-round exit. The Nuggets are a team that shows no grit when the going gets tough. They beat teams that they are "supposed to beat," and that's half the battle. Problem is, there's another half to the battle, and it consists of pulling out victories over opponents who are considered contenders for the championship (yes, I am aware of the Boston victory). I am referring to the moments when you can just clearly watch Karl's Nuggets being outcoached and outclassed with a system as opposed to just feeling this out and then randomly running a few set plays, though I must admit that some of the plays have surprised me this season when we actually pull them off.

I think Melo should be more vocal about bringing the team together, but that doesn't seem to be his style. Melo seems to want to be coached and to execute a game plan that he believes in. You can't have a passive star and a passive coach and expect to do anything in the post season. Maybe Chauncey will find a way to pull the Nuggets together for at least 2 wins in the first round and maybe Kroenke will see that his revenue goals have been met with this extra game played so he'll decide to keep everything in place. Warkentien will also view this extra victory as progress and suggest that not only should Karl stay, but he should get an extension. And the all lived happily ever after.

Really, I still don't know too much about Warkentien, but I know he scared the crap out of me after the Nuggets acquired Iverson and he said that Karl has "done laps around this block." I guess he didn't realize that today's Karl uses a Hoveround.

by E on Dec 29, 2008 12:53 AM MST reply actions

Here is the thing if we fire GK Stan will still have to pay him and the new coach. In this economy I seriously doubt this happens. I dont know when GK's contract is up but unless he puts together a run in the playoffs that saves his job then I would expect the team not to renew his deal assuming it is done after this season. So like most here I dont like GK but I believe he will get his chance in the post season before any change is made.

by nickademus on Dec 29, 2008 2:10 AM MST reply actions

What bugs the hell out of me is his rotation.

Contenders do not use random rotation. It's his use of Balkman that should be really questioned. It's not like Balkman is a total scrub... he always produces every time he's on the court.

He's not Patrick O'Bryant on Celtics where he's a total scrub and is out of the circle/ rotation and only brought in when it's garbage time and when there's an injury to the big men. Balkman is producing like Glen "Big Baby" Davis with his energy and hustle... and unlike Davis, he actually plays lock down defense. Davis is in their regular rotation, because he produces. Balkman produces and he is not in the regular rotation?

It's too inconsistent to create consistency within the team. This is no way a rotation of a contending team. You cannot expect/ count on someone who hasn't played for consecutive games to produce when you play him randomly.

- Snake -

by Anonymous on Dec 29, 2008 7:19 AM MST reply actions

Nickademus hit the nail right on the head. You wouldn't believe how much cost-cutting is going on behind the scenes at KSE. Even the smallest expenses are being trimmed. There is absolutely no way Karl is leaving while he is still getting paid. Karl would have to resign and rescind his own contract. KSE is not about to pay Karl to go on an extended vacation AND pay a new head coach at the same time. The Nuggets could be 11-20 instead of 20-11 and Karl's job would be safe for the rest of this season. Once his contract is up, I'm sure he'll be gone unless we go deep into the playoffs this spring.

by Anonymous on Dec 29, 2008 8:24 AM MST reply actions

Excellent question. Is a lack of visable activity during a game a sign of a lack of leadership or excellent leadership?

Is Karl content that the team knows what he wants and is now letting them apply that approach to their own games or is he just not involved because the lunatics are running the asylum? Personally I think Karl is doing a good job of working behind the scenes and then letting the players be the focus of the show. No one wants to see a director during a performance but his work is appreciated just the same. It seems Karl is playing the director more than a member of the cast on game nights.

by Chip Crain on Dec 29, 2008 9:15 AM MST reply actions

The difference between Karl and the guys you list as good coaches (all good calls) is passion to win. I'd be willing to bet that Jerry Sloan doesn't like half the guys on his roster, but he recognizes their skill and what they can contribute, and his rotations reflect that. Karl's inexplicable rotations--J.R. playing (and scoring ) huge one night, then being sat down in the 4th; Balkman coming and going seemingly at random--reveal either a weird stubbornness or a complete lack of understanding of his roster. I'm sure Karl knows the game, so it can't be the latter. That leaves us with a coach who is more concerned about "imposing his will" than winning. I think this team is winning despite him, not because of him, and that'll become more and more clear at the end of the season.

With bthis team, we should have 55 wins, especially in the suddenly soft West. Phoenix and Dallas are no longer dominant, Portland comes and goes. Why wouldn't a well-coached Nuggets team be a 4 or 5 seed? The answer is sitting on his well-paid butt on the sidelines. As you wrote, compare him to Pop or Van Gundy (or any guys who care). Even Phil Jackson, with his two bionic hips, works the refs and walks up and down the sidelines...

by eric on Dec 29, 2008 10:11 AM MST reply actions

Didn't see the last two games, but regarding The Birdman not playing, I'm wondering if he was getting some down time for his ribs to fully recover. I got the feeling Anderson returned earlier than he should have.

Okay, I'm trying to rationalize some of Karl's choices here - a never ending game for sure.

by JTR on Dec 29, 2008 10:36 AM MST reply actions

Chip Crain,

Your thoughts could be accurate if there was any evidence of Karl doing anything behind the scenes. If only Karl's in game performance were the only problem...

So far the evidence we have is that he doesn't do anything behind the scenes. His coaching last year consisted of telling Najera to practice shooting 3 pointers. This year we have Anthony saying that he learned about playing defense while on the Olympic team, and J.R. saying that Karl doesn't talk to him. There are only 12 players - all of them should be getting one on one time with the coach. All of them should be coached on both defense and offense. We know the offense has no set plays, and the defense consists of switching everything. So on offense they have little consistency and on defense they let the other teams dictate mismatches at will. Run a couple pick and rolls and you get Anthony Carter guarding Yao. It's a wonder they don't get dunked on every possession. When the playoffs arrive they will get smoked.

by KarlSucks on Dec 29, 2008 11:19 AM MST reply actions

The best basketball coach of all time didn't yell at the officials and didn't yell at his players. He sat on the sidelines and watched with a rolled up game program in his hands. He called time outs when they were needed, but preferred that the opposing coach call the first time out. He believed that practice was the time for coaching and once the game started it was too late to do anything about how the players played. His players executed the offense they were taught in practice, they played the defense they were taught in practice, they even shot bank shots and used the backboard the way they were taught. If the players didn't do as they were coached they didn't play no matter who they were or how important they were to the success of the team. I'm referring to John Wooden, of course.
Now I know today's pro game is a lot different from the college game that Wooden coached, but how much you yell from the sidelines either at players or officials is not a measure of how good a coach is. If we learn the lessons from Wooden to measure how successful the Nuggets coach is, we have to ask some questions: Do the players run the offense they were taught in training camp? The defense? Do the players take the shots they were coached to take. My college coach said to me "You don't know what to do with the ball when it comes to you." So he taught me what HE wanted me to do with the ball when I got it (which did NOT include shooting 20 foot jump shots). Do the Nuggets players do with the ball what Karl wants them to do with it, as in shoot the shots he wants them to take, make the passes he wants them to make and drive the drives he wants them to take? I'm sure there are more questions to be asked.
I don't really know the answer to these questions, but my gut feeling is that the answer in most cases for most players is no. It may not be willful on the part of player. They may not have been told what is expected of them. If it is willful on the part of players, then playing time should be affected.
With that as a measure, we can classify Karl as not a good coach.

by Anonymous on Dec 29, 2008 1:04 PM MST reply actions

Anon, you had had me worried there. I'm glad that your conclusion was what it was: GK=Bad Coach.

If I believed that a practice consisted of the things you mentioned, then I would reconsider the situation. If I believed Karl led the entire staff and team, I would reconsider. But I just don't think Karl does much of anything. There seems to be no scouting, no preparation, no plays... no nuthin'.

We are, once again, succeeding in spite of Karl. Why don't we run plays for Melo? He can't really create very well for himself, but man, he can sure score. Let's take advantage of that and RUN the offense through him, not let the offense run itself (which leads to standing around, no cutting, bad shots, etc.).

Final point. Melo is a scorer, not a leader. Plain and simple. Chauncey is now the leader, and everyone sees it. But he's riding out his career, so it's up to someone else to get the fire burning for a ring. Melo is just along for the ride, although with good coaching he could start showing some heart. We still need a superstar...

by Do We Have Any Plays? on Dec 29, 2008 1:37 PM MST reply actions

I just reread Chip Crain's post, and I have to say that if Karl acts behind the scenes as he does, well, everywhere else, then that says alot about his lack of passion not only on the court, but in general.

But, aside from Phil Jackson, I can't see any other coach acting like this and getting anything out of his team, or keeping their job. Stan Van Gundy must act fired up all the time, and it carries over onto the court. I think Karl 's gotta switch from decaf if he, or we, expect results.

by Do We Have Any Plays? on Dec 29, 2008 1:46 PM MST reply actions

Does anyone else think we need to add the Denver Broncos to Denverstiffs.com?? Just wondering..

by Anonymous on Dec 29, 2008 3:48 PM MST reply actions

george karl and mike shanahan are one of the same, except karl doesn't get to choose what players to bring in to screw things up. Thats why shanahan should resign as gm or coach. He's to blame for all of their problems

by 1NUGS1 on Dec 29, 2008 6:36 PM MST reply actions

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STIFF LIST (as of 2/7 by Andrew Feinstein)

1. THE NUGGETS AT HOME
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2. CARMELO ANTHONY
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4. CHARLOTTE BOBCATS
The 'Cats have lost 11 straight and are now 3-21 ... in the Eastern Conference! This is what happens when you let an underwear salesman with a Hitler mustache run your team.

5. MIKE BROWN
Dr. Bunsen Honeydew (Google it!) got himself a one-game suspension for making contact with a referee.

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