The hardest man to trade in the NBA?...
by Andrew Feinstein on Aug 11, 2008 1:01 AM MDT
32 comments
Anyone who has followed this blog since it's inception knows that I'm a big Allen Iverson fan. I was all for the trade to bring him to Denver in December 2006, regardless of the 1-8 playoff record that has resulted since. In fact, I hadn't given up on last year's version of the Nuggets (I just thought we needed a better coach, a decent draft pick and one reasonable trade), but it's obvious that the Nuggets front office brass, at the behest of owner Stan Kroenke, have.So with the Nuggets doing their darnedest to act like the cost-cutting Florida Marlins this summer - and with Mark Warkentien acting like Bobby Fischer circa 2008 versus the Fischer of 1972 - I think it would be best to trade Iverson for his sake, not ours.
As a Nuggets fan, I'd love to see Iverson lace up his sneakers at Pepsi Center for another season. But as an Iverson fan, I'm asking myself why he wants to play for a team being reconstructed for when he's no longer on it?
But while trading Iverson might sound good in theory (like Carmelo Anthony stating that his goal is to average 10 rebounds per game in the Olympics sounds good in theory), in practice Iverson might be the hardest player to trade in the NBA (excluding players like Kenyon Martin and Erick Dampier who are simply untradeable under any circumstance) for the following reasons:
1) Iverson has to go to a contender. No non-playoff team would want his $22 million salary nor would he want to play for one (well, other than Denver).
2) Iverson has to go to a team that would be willing to eat his hefty salary.
3) Whatever team acquires Iverson would have to send the Nuggets salaries in return equal to 75% of Iverson's $22 million contract. (Which I believe is correct according to Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ - a handy site for NBA bloggers!).
So here's the real question: are the Nuggets so desperate to shed payroll that they'd trade Iverson for expiring contracts worth 75% of Iverson's deal, thus cutting another $5.5 million in salary but losing the revenue / confidence from the fans that Iverson brings (even though I've heard that the Nuggets ticket sales have only gone up 1% since Iverson's arrival)?
If you think the answer is "yes," then these are the only possible trades in my opinion, excluding three team deals that I'm not creative enough to come up with right now:
Iverson to Chicago for Kirk Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas, Thabo Sefolosha and Cedric SimmonsWhy Chicago Would Do This: To part ways with Hinrich's four-year, $36.5 million contract, paving the way for rookie point guard Derrick Rose.
Why Denver Would Do This: Hinrich could be the pass-first, decent-shooting point guard the Nuggets have long needed.
Why Chicago Wouldn't Do This: Do the Bulls want to give up four players for Iverson in addition to risking impeding Rose's progress?
Why Denver Wouldn't Do This: At about $9 million per year, Hinrich's salary might be too rich for the Nuggets' blood.
Likelihood: 10%
Iverson to Cleveland for Wally Szczerbiak and Damon JonesWhy Cleveland Would Do This: They're paying Szcerbiak and Jones a combined $17.4 million for one more season anyway (damn those guys have good agents!), so they might as well get Iverson for one year and go for a real NBA Finals push alongside LeBron James.
Why Denver Would This: To save $4.6 million in salary.
Why Cleveland Wouldn't Do This: I don't see a downside for the Cavs. If they could pair Iverson with James for one season, you're looking at a Finals contender in the East.
Why Denver Wouldn't Do This: The Nuggets would rather keep the few season ticket holders they have left than trade Iverson just to save $4.6 million.
Likelihood: 10%
Iverson to Detroit for Chauncey Billups and Antonio McDyessWhy Detroit Would Do This: GM Joe Dumars is fed up with the Pistons inability to return to the NBA Finals and wants to capitalize on a still-weak Eastern Conference for one more Finals run. Also, Dumars might be so impressed with Rodney Stuckey that he'd be willing to part with Chauncey Billups and his three-year, $36 million contract (which was evident by Dumars' willingness to move Billups along with Tayshaun Prince for Anthony earlier this summer). Also, if Iverson panned out in Detroit, Dumars could re-sign him for less than what Billups would make.
Why Denver Would Do This: Beyond being a Denver native and a former Nugget, Billups would solve the Nuggets point guard, outside shooting and defense problems all at once (as stated in our Ex-Nuggets vs. Current Nuggets analysis back in June). It wouldn't hurt to bring McDyess back for one more go-around in Denver, too. Plus, the Nuggets would save $4 million in salary next season.
Why Detroit Wouldn't Do This: Dumars has never expressed any interest in Iverson. When he made inquiries to acquire Anthony from Denver for Billups, rumors were that the Nuggets countered with Iverson for Billups and Dumars turned them down.
Why Denver Wouldn't Do This: If the Nuggets are truly in a cost-cutting mode, they may not want to commit to Billups' salary, even though its fairly reasonable for a perennial All-Star and former NBA Finals MVP.
Likelihood: 5%
As you can see, it will be terribly difficult to trade Allen Iverson. Fortunately for us - but unfortunately for Iverson - we'll probably get to see "The Answer" play in Denver again next season.
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I've been the biggest Allen Iverson fan since he entered the NBA (100% guarenteed) and I haven't really decided whether I want him to be traded or not. I watched him basically play as hard as he could to win games in Philadelphia, and after 10 years I was so happy that he was traded to Denver. My initial reaction was that he would finally be on a team that could win a championship. However, I wasn't ready for everything that's happened so far. Winning a championship isn't apparently as easy as I thought it would be for AI. I thought that he and Carmelo could take everyone on by themselves, but I was so wrong. I've watched almost every single game AI's played since 1996, but it's different watching him play with the Nuggets. Him scoring 40+ points became almost habitual, but now that's changed. Obviously, he doesn't have to, but it's just different. Nothing would make me happier than to see him winning a championship. But, I want him to win one with Carmelo, I guess. And, I'd feel terrible for him if he was traded again, because he's said that he hates it when any player changes his jersey. It would be nice to see him finish his career as a Nugget, but if that isn't the case, then I would like to see him traded to a contender. Also, not to be "dumped" basically like Marcus Camby was. AI's given nothing to the Nuggets but his heart, and everything he has to win games, so he deserves to be treated with respect. But yeah, I just want to see him win a ring. His reaction would be priceless.
by nataly on Aug 11, 2008 12:27 AM MDT reply actions
A.I. is harder to trade than Kenyon Martin?
Seriously?
Do a write-up of the K-mart trade percentages!
Seriously?
Do a write-up of the K-mart trade percentages!
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 12:50 AM MDT reply actions
Dear "Anonymous":
I just updated the post to clarify that Iverson might be the hardest player to trade, excluding completely untradeable players like K-Mart, as we addressed a little while back here: http://www.denverstiffs.com/2008/06/nuggets-offseason-kenyon-martin-and-all.html
Sorry for the confusion!
I just updated the post to clarify that Iverson might be the hardest player to trade, excluding completely untradeable players like K-Mart, as we addressed a little while back here: http://www.denverstiffs.com/2008/06/nuggets-offseason-kenyon-martin-and-all.html
Sorry for the confusion!
by Andrew on Aug 11, 2008 12:58 AM MDT reply actions
"In fact, I hadn't given up on last year's version of the Nuggets (I just thought we needed a better coach, a decent draft pick and one reasonable trade), but it's obvious that the Kroenke Cronies have."
Exactamundo.
Last year's squad with a healthy Nene would have been an intriguing team to run out there this year.
I respect Kroenke for pulling the trigger on Iverson and the luxury tax in the first place, but I think it's a shame he didn't have the cojones to try it for one more year.
-----
"I think it would be best to trade Iverson for his sake, not ours. As a Nuggets fan, I'd love to see Iverson lace up his sneakers at Pepsi Center for another season. But as an Iverson fan, I'm asking myself why he wants to play for a team being reconstructed for when he's no longer on it?"
Yup. I'd love to see him traded to a contender.
The Nuggets actually are in decent shape, but after the Camby move, they're likely too young at this point to give a serious run for a couple of years.
You're correct that he's tough to trade, but if Shaq can be moved, so can he. The Cleveland trade makes sense, but the Chicago and Detroit trades basically don't.
-----
If they can get J.R. locked up for a few years so they don't have to worry about him having a good season (which I think is part of what was going on last year), and if Nene can actually be healthy, they could still be interesting this year.
Play J.R. for 35mpg, stick Iverson at the point, and see what happens. What's the downside?
Exactamundo.
Last year's squad with a healthy Nene would have been an intriguing team to run out there this year.
I respect Kroenke for pulling the trigger on Iverson and the luxury tax in the first place, but I think it's a shame he didn't have the cojones to try it for one more year.
-----
"I think it would be best to trade Iverson for his sake, not ours. As a Nuggets fan, I'd love to see Iverson lace up his sneakers at Pepsi Center for another season. But as an Iverson fan, I'm asking myself why he wants to play for a team being reconstructed for when he's no longer on it?"
Yup. I'd love to see him traded to a contender.
The Nuggets actually are in decent shape, but after the Camby move, they're likely too young at this point to give a serious run for a couple of years.
You're correct that he's tough to trade, but if Shaq can be moved, so can he. The Cleveland trade makes sense, but the Chicago and Detroit trades basically don't.
-----
If they can get J.R. locked up for a few years so they don't have to worry about him having a good season (which I think is part of what was going on last year), and if Nene can actually be healthy, they could still be interesting this year.
Play J.R. for 35mpg, stick Iverson at the point, and see what happens. What's the downside?
by Petey on Aug 11, 2008 1:56 AM MDT reply actions
I often wonder why People say AI stunts the growth of young players but you never hear so about other premier players!? I mean does me Shooting 19 jumpers stunt the of somebody else!? In philly people said AI slowed Iguodalas Growth... But here's the thing... Iguodala was the 3rd Option on the 76ers. How was it AI that held him Back if Webber (Who shot as much as AI did but made less) didn't? That comment as well as the Steals don't matter comment all are used to slight this guy. Of course AI will be hard to trade when he makes 22 million, and any team he's traded to would be a skeleton afterwards, so what would be the point.
AI hasn't stunted JR's growth!? and he's coming off the darn bench!? So how could AI stunt a start Malik Rose!?
This isn't directed at you Drew but at people that make that comment. AI averaged 33PPG in his last full year with the sixers... Webber 20PPG... Of course iggy wouldn't average a lot. And as far as trading AI... This front office needs to be held far more accountable. Even trading Kmart is assinine. Granted he makes a ton of Money but his skills as a defensive PF that can run the floor and defend on the ball are needed. People do not get hurt on purpose. Same goes for Nene. This team needed a new direction as far as Coaching 2 years ago. Trading anyone on this team is foolish unless you've trade another coach and it still doesn't get done. Use the players strengths! The Nuggets had the Best front court in basketball had Nene not developed Cancer. Nobody had that kind of Talent in thier front court.
But this is where Coaching comes into play... Kmart got better as the year went on, and Camby got worse because he got tired. Camby played more games than he ever did in his whole career! As well as the most minutes! He had never been overworked like that in his entire career! Thats George Karl, no Thats the FO's Fault. They did this team a total diservice and made them the laughing stock of the League both in the Season where their Defence was the butt of everybody joke as well as in the off season with the trade of thier 1st round pick and the Camby trade... They should Fire themselves.
AI hasn't stunted JR's growth!? and he's coming off the darn bench!? So how could AI stunt a start Malik Rose!?
This isn't directed at you Drew but at people that make that comment. AI averaged 33PPG in his last full year with the sixers... Webber 20PPG... Of course iggy wouldn't average a lot. And as far as trading AI... This front office needs to be held far more accountable. Even trading Kmart is assinine. Granted he makes a ton of Money but his skills as a defensive PF that can run the floor and defend on the ball are needed. People do not get hurt on purpose. Same goes for Nene. This team needed a new direction as far as Coaching 2 years ago. Trading anyone on this team is foolish unless you've trade another coach and it still doesn't get done. Use the players strengths! The Nuggets had the Best front court in basketball had Nene not developed Cancer. Nobody had that kind of Talent in thier front court.
But this is where Coaching comes into play... Kmart got better as the year went on, and Camby got worse because he got tired. Camby played more games than he ever did in his whole career! As well as the most minutes! He had never been overworked like that in his entire career! Thats George Karl, no Thats the FO's Fault. They did this team a total diservice and made them the laughing stock of the League both in the Season where their Defence was the butt of everybody joke as well as in the off season with the trade of thier 1st round pick and the Camby trade... They should Fire themselves.
by chillz on Aug 11, 2008 8:10 AM MDT reply actions
To Petey
Definitly sticking AI at point would greatly help this team in balance... But Than George Karl would have to coach which he doesn't want to do. He'd have to draw up plays to best utilize AI and Melo... Meaning he'd have to earn his pay. The only reason Carter was starting was for melo's sake. When AI last started a full year at PG he averaged 33 and 7... George knows that would overshadow Melo in every way. So he opted to place a mediator between the two to keep Melo from feeling that AI had taken over. Which AI could do, and to me if your able to do so than do it. AI wants it to be Melo's team because if He takes over he will be attacked in the media... and he's done with that, at least if he can control it. If JR and AI don't start!? ....
Definitly sticking AI at point would greatly help this team in balance... But Than George Karl would have to coach which he doesn't want to do. He'd have to draw up plays to best utilize AI and Melo... Meaning he'd have to earn his pay. The only reason Carter was starting was for melo's sake. When AI last started a full year at PG he averaged 33 and 7... George knows that would overshadow Melo in every way. So he opted to place a mediator between the two to keep Melo from feeling that AI had taken over. Which AI could do, and to me if your able to do so than do it. AI wants it to be Melo's team because if He takes over he will be attacked in the media... and he's done with that, at least if he can control it. If JR and AI don't start!? ....
by chillz on Aug 11, 2008 8:34 AM MDT reply actions
not sure you should compare the nuggets to the marlins. if you gave me the choice between any of my favorite teams or a team that will suck horribly for 6-8 years and then all of a sudden make the playoffs, but not just make the playoffs, win the championship once during those 6-8 years, i would take it and walk away as happy as a clam. the marlins are the greatest franchise in sports. they can routinely pull off a rockies-esque run at the tittle, but when they get there they actually win rather than get swept. and, they win against very good opponents.
by A.B. on Aug 11, 2008 8:44 AM MDT reply actions
I for one am not ready to concede that this team is in full-fledged "REBUILDING" mode, just because we parted with Camby. I'd call it more of a 'retooling' with the expectation that this team can compete (legitimately) for the West. Rather it's right or wrong to fool yourselves as the Cronkie bunch does, htat's what's happenin.
by Eric on Aug 11, 2008 9:20 AM MDT reply actions
"So he opted to place a mediator between the two to keep Melo from feeling that AI had taken over."
And fine, I understood that.
Personally, I think AI is better off playing the 2 than the 1. And I do understand that Melo's psyche is something to be minded.
The only problem is that with Atkins down, and Blake traded to save pennies, we ended up with Anthony Carter playing 35mpg, which ain't going to get it done at an elite level in this league.
I think they should move AI to the point if they keep him because they have no other options.
And all it'll require from Karl isn't drawing up plays, but dealing with playing J.R. serious minutes.
And fine, I understood that.
Personally, I think AI is better off playing the 2 than the 1. And I do understand that Melo's psyche is something to be minded.
The only problem is that with Atkins down, and Blake traded to save pennies, we ended up with Anthony Carter playing 35mpg, which ain't going to get it done at an elite level in this league.
I think they should move AI to the point if they keep him because they have no other options.
And all it'll require from Karl isn't drawing up plays, but dealing with playing J.R. serious minutes.
by Petey on Aug 11, 2008 9:43 AM MDT reply actions
the marlins? are you kidding me? baseball isn't even a real sport.
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 10:11 AM MDT reply actions
I agree Petey!
AI is a Point guard in my opinion. He's always been one. Its just most Coaches choose the easy route. AI isn't a Pass first point guard and he's so good at scoring the game comes very easy when he's at point. Coach Thompson had him at PG as did Jim Obrein... Larry Brown had him at PG but wanted him to pass first more. Ai didn't catch on as fast as LB wanted so he moved him to SG and placed Snow at Point. i think playing AI at Shooting Guard has been a diservice to him for his creer. This guys floor vision is excellent. he was QB & DB for crying out loud!
Playing AI at Shooting guard will not work with the nuggets. It makes AI and Melo 1 dimensional. Makes them both scorers. At PG Ai becomes a Combo guard and can defend the smaller guards while JR defends the taller SG's. Melo would be free to be the number 1 scorer which he feels he should be.
Like that the numbers could be.
AI 24 & 10APG
JR 18
Melo 28 & 8RPG
AI at Point makes him far more efficient at scoring. in 06 AI averaged 33ppg at almost 45% shooting with an far less talented player as JR or Melo.
AI is a Point guard in my opinion. He's always been one. Its just most Coaches choose the easy route. AI isn't a Pass first point guard and he's so good at scoring the game comes very easy when he's at point. Coach Thompson had him at PG as did Jim Obrein... Larry Brown had him at PG but wanted him to pass first more. Ai didn't catch on as fast as LB wanted so he moved him to SG and placed Snow at Point. i think playing AI at Shooting Guard has been a diservice to him for his creer. This guys floor vision is excellent. he was QB & DB for crying out loud!
Playing AI at Shooting guard will not work with the nuggets. It makes AI and Melo 1 dimensional. Makes them both scorers. At PG Ai becomes a Combo guard and can defend the smaller guards while JR defends the taller SG's. Melo would be free to be the number 1 scorer which he feels he should be.
Like that the numbers could be.
AI 24 & 10APG
JR 18
Melo 28 & 8RPG
AI at Point makes him far more efficient at scoring. in 06 AI averaged 33ppg at almost 45% shooting with an far less talented player as JR or Melo.
by chillz on Aug 11, 2008 10:39 AM MDT reply actions
Having watched the undersized Allen Iverson in Philly for oh so many years, I'm convinced that he can not lead a team to a championship. Iverson is a defensive liability, although he does read the passing lanes well. On offense, he has the ball too much and only one other player can do much offensively in that scheme. And while Iverson can take over a game, once you build your offense around him, it becomes imperative that he take over "every" game. He just isn't that good to win enough games. He can't shoot well enough from the outside if his slashes to the basket are blocked off.
I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball. I do appreciate the all-out effort he puts in on the floor, though.
If some coach could get him to adopt a pass-first mentality, where AI was the third option, say, then I could see him winning a championship. But not with the game he plays now.
I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball. I do appreciate the all-out effort he puts in on the floor, though.
If some coach could get him to adopt a pass-first mentality, where AI was the third option, say, then I could see him winning a championship. But not with the game he plays now.
by Edmundo on Aug 11, 2008 12:22 PM MDT reply actions
Edmundo said: "I'm convinced that he can not lead a team to a championship."
Oh, really? Then what do you call his 2001 NBA season when he basically carried the 76er's on his back to the finals. And, you said you watched him in Philly, please, what player were you watching, because that wasn't Allen Iverson. He wasn't the MVP that year for no reason.
Edmundo said:"He just isn't that good to win enough games. He can't shoot well enough from the outside if his slashes to the basket are blocked off."
Really? Iverson never had any "real" teammates while he was in Philadelphia, yet after ten years he managed to give them an above .500 record. And, to your point about him not shooting well from outside; last year he shot about 46% from the field, and almost 35% from three. That's pretty good if you ask me.
Edmundo said:"I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball."
LOL, this obviously is implied to his practice rant. Did you know in 10 years in Philadelphia, Iverson only missed SIX practices. Yeah, that's right, six.
Edmundo said:"But not with the game he plays now."
He's one of the greatest players in NBA history because of the way he plays. I doubt he's going to change now just to satisfy you.
Oh, really? Then what do you call his 2001 NBA season when he basically carried the 76er's on his back to the finals. And, you said you watched him in Philly, please, what player were you watching, because that wasn't Allen Iverson. He wasn't the MVP that year for no reason.
Edmundo said:"He just isn't that good to win enough games. He can't shoot well enough from the outside if his slashes to the basket are blocked off."
Really? Iverson never had any "real" teammates while he was in Philadelphia, yet after ten years he managed to give them an above .500 record. And, to your point about him not shooting well from outside; last year he shot about 46% from the field, and almost 35% from three. That's pretty good if you ask me.
Edmundo said:"I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball."
LOL, this obviously is implied to his practice rant. Did you know in 10 years in Philadelphia, Iverson only missed SIX practices. Yeah, that's right, six.
Edmundo said:"But not with the game he plays now."
He's one of the greatest players in NBA history because of the way he plays. I doubt he's going to change now just to satisfy you.
by nataly on Aug 11, 2008 12:47 PM MDT reply actions
It's interesting that the photo you chose was of his Olympic run, Iverson was at his best on that team, broken thumb and all. He was a good point guard, the team just didn't have enough shooters on the floor and couldn't keep the big men (mainly Duncan) out of foul trouble. Anyway, that's not really on topic...
I can't decide it I'd rather see AI (if not in Denver) play for Cleveland (with LBJ, Pavlovic, Varajao, and Big Ben) or in Detroit (with Prince, Rip, Sheed and Maxiell). I think the Celtics are unlikely to repeat last season's success, so the East is ripe for a run.
I have one more tangent - the Cavs could be no better off in the long term if they make the deal. Assuming he's a threat to leave if they don't build a contender, LeBron could decide after winning that he'd done right by his home team and still leave for Brooklyn (or Europe). At least they'd have a banner to remember the time. We'd have Whining Wally (for a year) and lottery pick. Do you hate Melo? Maybe the Nuggets could still deal him to Detroit and put our two stars against each other so it doesn't look like one of those gifts like Gasol or Garnett.
I can't decide it I'd rather see AI (if not in Denver) play for Cleveland (with LBJ, Pavlovic, Varajao, and Big Ben) or in Detroit (with Prince, Rip, Sheed and Maxiell). I think the Celtics are unlikely to repeat last season's success, so the East is ripe for a run.
I have one more tangent - the Cavs could be no better off in the long term if they make the deal. Assuming he's a threat to leave if they don't build a contender, LeBron could decide after winning that he'd done right by his home team and still leave for Brooklyn (or Europe). At least they'd have a banner to remember the time. We'd have Whining Wally (for a year) and lottery pick. Do you hate Melo? Maybe the Nuggets could still deal him to Detroit and put our two stars against each other so it doesn't look like one of those gifts like Gasol or Garnett.
by Mike on Aug 11, 2008 1:17 PM MDT reply actions
I don't know if Iverson is as hard to trade as you beleive. I think the fact that he is a huge expiring and the fact that he had one of his best seasons last year help out his case a lot. I think the question is as you stated how badly does the Nuggets want him gone. I honestly don't think they want him gone, even with the 1-8 playoffs, I think that they have listened to offers..but unless something over the top good comes up...they want him to stay. But as Andrew stated, I don't think its a good idea for Iverson at this point. I would go into why its not, but this topic has been beaten into the ground now. I will say if he leaves, Denver will be in official rebuilding mode and it will start a snowball effect, because a team of Carmelo, Klieza, Nene and JR will NOT compete with any team in the West. Add that to the fact that Karl may still be around, and its lottery city. That team will go back to complete irrelevence.
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 1:52 PM MDT reply actions
Oh and I will say I really like that Cleveland trade. They should try to make that happen. Iverson would be a better fit with Lebron then with Carmelo. People say that Lebron needs the ball in his hands, but thats not necessarily true..he has the ball in his hands because he doesn't have a choice, Lebron can work without the ball just fine...let Iverson go there and run the defenders rampent all the while taking defensive pressure off Lebron. Lebron also has that fire that Iverson has in which he can't stand to lose, and he has a drive to want to get better. He is also a REAL leader. I would have rather seen him and Iverson play together then Iverson and Carmelo.
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 1:58 PM MDT reply actions
[Having watched the undersized Allen Iverson in Philly for oh so many years, I'm convinced that he can not lead a team to a championship.]
I've been watching many allstars and am convinced if you don't have Shaq or Duncan on your team (Except Detoit and Celtics) That None of them can win a championship. Kobe hasn't won one without shaq and Wade hasn'teither. Kidd hasn't... Nash hasn't... Dirk hasn't.... It took Garnett to come to a team with 2 other ready made allstars for him to get a ring... Same goes for Ray and Peirce... I mean what do you base that off of?! Tmac hasn't... Melo hasn't... AI has gotten to the finals which proves he can get you there. Winning against a team like the Lakers was a tall task.
[Iverson is a defensive liability]
duhhh... He's an undersized player ya know. All players his size are defensive liabilities. Chric Paul is a defensive liability. But with a Defensive minded coach and a tough Defensive team he plays much better defensively. He won Big East Defensive player of the year 2 times in college
[He has the ball too much and only one other player can do much offensively in that scheme. And while Iverson can take over a game, once you build your offense around him, it becomes imperative that he take over "every" game.]
No.1 AI is a combo guard who is more capable of handling the rock than anybody he's ever played with... No.2 The Nuggets are not built around him... they are built around Melo. No.3 AI rarely takes over nuggets games cause Karl makes sure he doesn't... Like when he score 50 in 3 quarters the Idiot Karl tells the team to go away from him... therefore they lost to the Lakers.
[He can't shoot well enough from the outside if his slashes to the basket are blocked off.]
AI shoots 45%... Kobe Shoots 45%
[I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball.]
You do know AI practices right... With the team... Larry is the major person who had a beef with AI about practice... And he admitted AI went to practice its just he missed more than the coach liked... And given the source who knows had bad it was.
[If some coach could get him to adopt a pass-first mentality, where AI was the third option, say, then I could see him winning a championship. But not with the game he plays now.]
As a third option?! AI, at 33 is the 3rd best scoring option in the league! At 33 and if you take his career amongst his contemporaries, he's the best scorer since Jordan OVER his career. Not only that AI averages the Most Points and Assists of any 2 guard in the league since MJ. And show me a Pass first Point guard that won an Championship in the last 10 years!
Lets look....
Celtics: Rondo... Not a pass first PG but also the 5 best player on his team (5.1 apg)
Spurs: Parker... Not a Pass first PG. (6.0 apg)
Heat: Williams... Nope (4.6 apg)
Pistons: Billups... Darn sure not a Pass first PG... (6.8 apg)
Lakers: Fisher... huh (2.9 apg)
Shoot did the Bulls have a pass first PG running thier offense!? No cause Pippen and Jordan brought the ball up!
I've been watching many allstars and am convinced if you don't have Shaq or Duncan on your team (Except Detoit and Celtics) That None of them can win a championship. Kobe hasn't won one without shaq and Wade hasn'teither. Kidd hasn't... Nash hasn't... Dirk hasn't.... It took Garnett to come to a team with 2 other ready made allstars for him to get a ring... Same goes for Ray and Peirce... I mean what do you base that off of?! Tmac hasn't... Melo hasn't... AI has gotten to the finals which proves he can get you there. Winning against a team like the Lakers was a tall task.
[Iverson is a defensive liability]
duhhh... He's an undersized player ya know. All players his size are defensive liabilities. Chric Paul is a defensive liability. But with a Defensive minded coach and a tough Defensive team he plays much better defensively. He won Big East Defensive player of the year 2 times in college
[He has the ball too much and only one other player can do much offensively in that scheme. And while Iverson can take over a game, once you build your offense around him, it becomes imperative that he take over "every" game.]
No.1 AI is a combo guard who is more capable of handling the rock than anybody he's ever played with... No.2 The Nuggets are not built around him... they are built around Melo. No.3 AI rarely takes over nuggets games cause Karl makes sure he doesn't... Like when he score 50 in 3 quarters the Idiot Karl tells the team to go away from him... therefore they lost to the Lakers.
[He can't shoot well enough from the outside if his slashes to the basket are blocked off.]
AI shoots 45%... Kobe Shoots 45%
[I'm not a fan because I think practice and teamwork are vital to winning in basketball.]
You do know AI practices right... With the team... Larry is the major person who had a beef with AI about practice... And he admitted AI went to practice its just he missed more than the coach liked... And given the source who knows had bad it was.
[If some coach could get him to adopt a pass-first mentality, where AI was the third option, say, then I could see him winning a championship. But not with the game he plays now.]
As a third option?! AI, at 33 is the 3rd best scoring option in the league! At 33 and if you take his career amongst his contemporaries, he's the best scorer since Jordan OVER his career. Not only that AI averages the Most Points and Assists of any 2 guard in the league since MJ. And show me a Pass first Point guard that won an Championship in the last 10 years!
Lets look....
Celtics: Rondo... Not a pass first PG but also the 5 best player on his team (5.1 apg)
Spurs: Parker... Not a Pass first PG. (6.0 apg)
Heat: Williams... Nope (4.6 apg)
Pistons: Billups... Darn sure not a Pass first PG... (6.8 apg)
Lakers: Fisher... huh (2.9 apg)
Shoot did the Bulls have a pass first PG running thier offense!? No cause Pippen and Jordan brought the ball up!
by chillz on Aug 11, 2008 2:07 PM MDT reply actions
This subject needed to be brought up sometime soon and I am glad to see that Andrew did indeed do so. I initially thought trading Iverson would be the best option for him personally but none of the options Andrew listed would seem to work out. He isn't going to win a title in Chi, Detroit doesn't wan't him and I don't think we would get enough out of the deal in trading him to Cleavland. I am still up for other options if they arise but we have to obtain something valuable for ourselves in return. The fact is we all know Karl is not dedicated to success and his playoff record speaks for itself. Keeping A.I. around is almost like watching something you know is going to die sit there and diteriorate. It's just sad. Although, in trying to make light out of the situation I think that "Chillz" had the best proposal. Move A.I. to PG, and start JR. By doing so this already makes us a whole lot better and more dangerous. A.I. has said he feels better playing the 2 but like "Chillz" said I think it's his natural position with his size and skill and he is just going to have to manage it for the good of the team. A.I. could be a top 5 PG in the league and this would solve our PG problem as well. Hopefully this gets to Karl in some way becuase it is a truley brilliant idea by "Chillz" that for some reason we have all dismissed for the past few years. If only we could manage this team, we might be somewhere totally different at this point in time.
by goldennugget on Aug 11, 2008 2:11 PM MDT reply actions
"If some coach could get him to adopt a pass-first mentality, where AI was the third option, say, then I could see him winning a championship. But not with the game he plays now".
^I will never understand the concept of this..how or why would a player that holds the third highest PPG average in the histonry of the game be a third option? Why? I think that is the silliest thing people could say. News flash...HE LED A TEAM TO THE FINALS BEING THE FIRST OPTION!! Iverson can be the first option, yes...second option, fine...but third option never. The people that say that, just don't like Iveron and basically want to take away from what makes that guy special.
@goldennugget
It wouldn't make much sense for Detroit because Iverson is not a pure PG and trading away Billups for Iverson would basically be doing the same thing Denver did...trade away their PG for a combo gaurd, only Detroit would have enough commen sense to go out and get another legit PG. Also, Iverson in Cleveland seems the best option for him. If the Nuggets don't get enough out of the deal..oh well. They seem to be in almost rebuilding mode so it wouldn't matter anyways. Bottom line is, if people are a fan of Iversons they can't be happy with this scenerio. If the Nuggets don't do something soon to either A) Better that team to where the fans know what direction they are going or B.) Trade Iverson so he can have a chance on a REAL contender, then they will completely tarnish their organizations name. The fact of the matter is I have found that Iverson has a cult like following, the guy has more fans then the entire Nuggets organization and is obviously a future Hall of Famer. If they are planning on rebuilding and don't show Iverson enough respect by trading him to a contender..the Nuggets organization will get a major backlash by not only his fans but I beleive basketball fans as a whole. My father has been a Nuggets fan my entire life, and even he says that they need to do Iverson a favor and let him go because it is making that organization look bad that they went out and made a major trade to bring that guy here when they knew they were not ready to contend. I think he was the main reason the Nuggets even got into the playoffs this past season and at this point has done more for them then they have for him, because it has certainly not helped him being here.
^I will never understand the concept of this..how or why would a player that holds the third highest PPG average in the histonry of the game be a third option? Why? I think that is the silliest thing people could say. News flash...HE LED A TEAM TO THE FINALS BEING THE FIRST OPTION!! Iverson can be the first option, yes...second option, fine...but third option never. The people that say that, just don't like Iveron and basically want to take away from what makes that guy special.
@goldennugget
It wouldn't make much sense for Detroit because Iverson is not a pure PG and trading away Billups for Iverson would basically be doing the same thing Denver did...trade away their PG for a combo gaurd, only Detroit would have enough commen sense to go out and get another legit PG. Also, Iverson in Cleveland seems the best option for him. If the Nuggets don't get enough out of the deal..oh well. They seem to be in almost rebuilding mode so it wouldn't matter anyways. Bottom line is, if people are a fan of Iversons they can't be happy with this scenerio. If the Nuggets don't do something soon to either A) Better that team to where the fans know what direction they are going or B.) Trade Iverson so he can have a chance on a REAL contender, then they will completely tarnish their organizations name. The fact of the matter is I have found that Iverson has a cult like following, the guy has more fans then the entire Nuggets organization and is obviously a future Hall of Famer. If they are planning on rebuilding and don't show Iverson enough respect by trading him to a contender..the Nuggets organization will get a major backlash by not only his fans but I beleive basketball fans as a whole. My father has been a Nuggets fan my entire life, and even he says that they need to do Iverson a favor and let him go because it is making that organization look bad that they went out and made a major trade to bring that guy here when they knew they were not ready to contend. I think he was the main reason the Nuggets even got into the playoffs this past season and at this point has done more for them then they have for him, because it has certainly not helped him being here.
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 3:00 PM MDT reply actions
I agree with you the Nugs need to trade AI for his sake. And I love the scenarios you ran there. As an Ohio AI fan from day one, I could drive to Cleveland or Detroit and see him all the time!
But I'm not that lucky lol
I really doubt AI would have stuck around if he knew the team was going to be dismantled.
But I'm not that lucky lol
I really doubt AI would have stuck around if he knew the team was going to be dismantled.
by ThaAnswer on Aug 11, 2008 3:33 PM MDT reply actions
I'm not an expert on the ins-and-outs of the NBA collective bargaining agreement, so if anyone can shed light on this I would appreciate it...
I don't mean to suggest that A.I. should feel compelled to give up any of the money he is due (or suggest that he actually wants to be traded), but couldn't he simply restructure his contract in order to help make a trade to a contender work? If A.I. comes to the conclusion that he wants out of Denver he could simply ask himself whether or not its worth foregoing millions in order to chase his first title. Besides, if A.I. were intent on getting rich he could certainly make a boatload of money overseas after his current contract expires, where he is more popular and marketable than he is stateside.
I don't mean to suggest that A.I. should feel compelled to give up any of the money he is due (or suggest that he actually wants to be traded), but couldn't he simply restructure his contract in order to help make a trade to a contender work? If A.I. comes to the conclusion that he wants out of Denver he could simply ask himself whether or not its worth foregoing millions in order to chase his first title. Besides, if A.I. were intent on getting rich he could certainly make a boatload of money overseas after his current contract expires, where he is more popular and marketable than he is stateside.
by rauf is on fire on Aug 11, 2008 8:02 PM MDT reply actions
^^ Iverson is just as popular stateside as he is in Europe. The guy is one of the biggest box office draws in the league. While ticket sales may have only went up 1% in Denver (I think due to the fact that Denver isn't a basketball town and some people just not convinced that this move would get that team over the top along with some people not wanting Carmelo to have to share the spotlight), the Nuggets seem to sell out every arena on the road. That only started happening when Iverson got there. He had the #3 selling jersey this past season and his jesey sales has been in the top five in sales for a decade. His popularity is not an issue. With his contracts and endorsements I think Iverson is easily worth upwards of $200 million at this point in his career. The guy has a lifetime contract with Reebok, the only lifetime contract in all of sports. So its safe to say, money isn't an issue either.
I'm sure if Iverson knew that this team was going to be dismanteled, he probably would have opted out and went to another team this Summer. Although him playing in Europe for the fans there makes since for them, it doesn't make since for the NBA fans considering that he is one of the leagues biggest box office draws and one of its most recognizable faces. Iverson said he'll never chase a ring, so I doubt that will happen. I have a question...why do some Nuggets fans seem totally forein to anything that is outside of a Nuggets uniform? Its very strange, its almost as if some of them don't know the history behind their own players...or don't know anything about Iverson befor he became a Nugget, and the guy has been one of the leagues most premeir players. Maybe he should also go play for fans that know his history.
I'm sure if Iverson knew that this team was going to be dismanteled, he probably would have opted out and went to another team this Summer. Although him playing in Europe for the fans there makes since for them, it doesn't make since for the NBA fans considering that he is one of the leagues biggest box office draws and one of its most recognizable faces. Iverson said he'll never chase a ring, so I doubt that will happen. I have a question...why do some Nuggets fans seem totally forein to anything that is outside of a Nuggets uniform? Its very strange, its almost as if some of them don't know the history behind their own players...or don't know anything about Iverson befor he became a Nugget, and the guy has been one of the leagues most premeir players. Maybe he should also go play for fans that know his history.
by Anonymous on Aug 11, 2008 9:48 PM MDT reply actions
If I were AI, I'd politely ask the Nuggets to trade me.
He came to Denver with the assumption the Nuggets were committed to winning.
As the last two seasons have demonstrated, however they aren't.
George Karl is the sorriest excuse for a coach in the league, and his benching AI in the 2nd quarter against the Lakers during game 2 for an extended period of time WHILE HE WAS ON FIRE, and then sitting him in Denver for the entire 3rd quarter was absolutely mindbogglig!
Clearly, Karl was intentionally throwing in the towel -
Oh, and that combined with his "passionate" 11th hour speech of imploring the Nuggets to not acquire defensive lockdown specialist Ron Artest (EXACTY what the Nugs needed) - because Linas Kleiza and Najera were just too damn valuable was almost as egregious.
Now, Najera's f**king gone, and Artest is with my hometown Rockets, and probably will be competing for a championship this year, while AI, pound for pound, the most fearsome scorer the league has ever seen, is stuck on a team in rebuilding mode.
To Hell with this.
AI is getting screwed over by the Nugs brass, and he needs to put his foot down, because they won't.
He came to Denver with the assumption the Nuggets were committed to winning.
As the last two seasons have demonstrated, however they aren't.
George Karl is the sorriest excuse for a coach in the league, and his benching AI in the 2nd quarter against the Lakers during game 2 for an extended period of time WHILE HE WAS ON FIRE, and then sitting him in Denver for the entire 3rd quarter was absolutely mindbogglig!
Clearly, Karl was intentionally throwing in the towel -
Oh, and that combined with his "passionate" 11th hour speech of imploring the Nuggets to not acquire defensive lockdown specialist Ron Artest (EXACTY what the Nugs needed) - because Linas Kleiza and Najera were just too damn valuable was almost as egregious.
Now, Najera's f**king gone, and Artest is with my hometown Rockets, and probably will be competing for a championship this year, while AI, pound for pound, the most fearsome scorer the league has ever seen, is stuck on a team in rebuilding mode.
To Hell with this.
AI is getting screwed over by the Nugs brass, and he needs to put his foot down, because they won't.
by Jason on Aug 12, 2008 1:11 AM MDT reply actions
I'll keep it short.
Iverson led a team specifically constructed to maximize his strengths to the Finals. They even won a game in the Finals but were defeated handily.
He had teammates this past year and how far did they go?
I'm not saying he is an evil person but his game does nothing to elevate his teammates' game.
If Iverson, as the #1 or #1A cog on a team wins a championship, I will humbly eat all the crow that this site can dish out. My sense is that it will dish out heaping helpings of it. :)
Iverson led a team specifically constructed to maximize his strengths to the Finals. They even won a game in the Finals but were defeated handily.
He had teammates this past year and how far did they go?
I'm not saying he is an evil person but his game does nothing to elevate his teammates' game.
If Iverson, as the #1 or #1A cog on a team wins a championship, I will humbly eat all the crow that this site can dish out. My sense is that it will dish out heaping helpings of it. :)
by Edmundo on Aug 12, 2008 6:06 AM MDT reply actions
anonymous... I wasn't suggesting that Iverson was not a draw stateside, nor was I suggesting that he is desperate to chase a ring. All I was asking was whether or not the collective bargaining agreement allows for players to renegotiate their contracts for less money, should Iverson (hypothetically) want out.
With that said, I think you're overstating Iverson's popularity circa 2008. Find a random sampling of people anywhere in the USA and ask tem to name the best players in the league and I'd be surprised if A.I. is one of the first ten names mentioned, whereas NBC hit the streets of Beijing a few nights ago and A.I. was the third name mentioned (after Lebron and Kobe) by young Chinese basketball fans. Moreover, when I say that A.I. could make a boatload of money overseas, I'm taking into consideration the fact that Europe does not have a salary cap and would possibly be willing to pay him more than he could make in the States.
As for his shoe contract as a measure of popularity, find me anyone who has bought a pair of Reeboks in the last five years and I'll show you a person tragically out of touch. Jersey sales, on a different note, don't always connote a player's popularity within the context of the sport they play. A.I. has a certain amount of cache in hip-hop culture, whereas the Nuggets color scheme pops, giving his jersey countless sales to people who haven't actually watched a basketball game in years.
I appreciate your love for A.I., but it needs to be tempered by rational responses to simple statements.
With that said, I think you're overstating Iverson's popularity circa 2008. Find a random sampling of people anywhere in the USA and ask tem to name the best players in the league and I'd be surprised if A.I. is one of the first ten names mentioned, whereas NBC hit the streets of Beijing a few nights ago and A.I. was the third name mentioned (after Lebron and Kobe) by young Chinese basketball fans. Moreover, when I say that A.I. could make a boatload of money overseas, I'm taking into consideration the fact that Europe does not have a salary cap and would possibly be willing to pay him more than he could make in the States.
As for his shoe contract as a measure of popularity, find me anyone who has bought a pair of Reeboks in the last five years and I'll show you a person tragically out of touch. Jersey sales, on a different note, don't always connote a player's popularity within the context of the sport they play. A.I. has a certain amount of cache in hip-hop culture, whereas the Nuggets color scheme pops, giving his jersey countless sales to people who haven't actually watched a basketball game in years.
I appreciate your love for A.I., but it needs to be tempered by rational responses to simple statements.
by rauf is on fire on Aug 12, 2008 8:44 AM MDT reply actions
Edmundo... The 01 Sixers were built around AI but they were not built to maximize his talents. The team was 44-14 when they traded for Mutombo. Well on thier way to 60 wins. After the trade they were won at a .500 clip. That team was built on Defense... NOT solely to maximize AI talents. cause if it were, there would have been more shooters on the floor with him to free him up. AI was 40% of the teams offense that years meaning he was the reason they scored enough to win 56 games that season. The sixers were the walking Wounded that year as well. Erick Snow had Screws in his foot & George Lynch only played a handfull of games in the finals very uneffectively...
Aaron McKie had to step in for for both of them and his shoulder was also hurt. AI, who torched the Raptors for 50+ Twice in the same series got hurt in game 7 and was never the same in the play-offs that season. The Sixers didn't have any Luck going into the finals against a team that had swept thru the Playoffs after they had 2 7 game series'. Had the Sixers been healthy, those finals would have been totaly different.
This year, there were many things working against him returning to the finals even tho this was the most talented team he'd ever had...
1. NO DEFENSE. Although AI isn't great defensively, you make it worse when you start him with an undersized guard and your team Lack STRUCTURED TEAM DEFENSE.
2. No cohesive Offense struture to free him or the 1st option Melo.
3. 3 captians... On the sixers Snow was the captain. It didn't mater who was the more talented, Snow was the leader and Vet. Just cause Melo is talented, didn't mean he should be Cap'n.
4. 3rd Offensive option almost NEVER saw over 30 minutes in a game.
5. The Starting Center was Overused and Burned out by mid season.
6. Lack of good coaching decisions like... AI going for 50 in 3 quarters but we're going to go away from him.... Smart...
7. Black Hole Melo. Melo not learning to pass out of Double and Triple Teams is mind numbing.
8. Too many Iso plays. Let AI and Melo play off of each other. Don't seperate them.
9. The loss of Nene may have cause more problems then we can ever know! With him I say we would have won at least 5 more games, and wouldn't have saw the Lakers in the first round. Couple that with Kmart not being able to play more than 20 minute early in the season and ... Well it a tough call.
With those problems the nuggets still won 50 games... Ran into the NBA Live team Lakers with their Stolen center... And got swept...
Aaron McKie had to step in for for both of them and his shoulder was also hurt. AI, who torched the Raptors for 50+ Twice in the same series got hurt in game 7 and was never the same in the play-offs that season. The Sixers didn't have any Luck going into the finals against a team that had swept thru the Playoffs after they had 2 7 game series'. Had the Sixers been healthy, those finals would have been totaly different.
This year, there were many things working against him returning to the finals even tho this was the most talented team he'd ever had...
1. NO DEFENSE. Although AI isn't great defensively, you make it worse when you start him with an undersized guard and your team Lack STRUCTURED TEAM DEFENSE.
2. No cohesive Offense struture to free him or the 1st option Melo.
3. 3 captians... On the sixers Snow was the captain. It didn't mater who was the more talented, Snow was the leader and Vet. Just cause Melo is talented, didn't mean he should be Cap'n.
4. 3rd Offensive option almost NEVER saw over 30 minutes in a game.
5. The Starting Center was Overused and Burned out by mid season.
6. Lack of good coaching decisions like... AI going for 50 in 3 quarters but we're going to go away from him.... Smart...
7. Black Hole Melo. Melo not learning to pass out of Double and Triple Teams is mind numbing.
8. Too many Iso plays. Let AI and Melo play off of each other. Don't seperate them.
9. The loss of Nene may have cause more problems then we can ever know! With him I say we would have won at least 5 more games, and wouldn't have saw the Lakers in the first round. Couple that with Kmart not being able to play more than 20 minute early in the season and ... Well it a tough call.
With those problems the nuggets still won 50 games... Ran into the NBA Live team Lakers with their Stolen center... And got swept...
by chillz on Aug 12, 2008 9:25 AM MDT reply actions
@ rauf
well then I guess AI should just concede that he is no longer relevant then huh?
So because you don't wear Reeboks that means anyone who does is out of touch huh? R U kididng me. kobe's shoes don't sell, neither do lebrons really. Wanna know how I know, because everytime Lebron gets a hangnail, someone writes an article about it and the fact that his shoes are ugly.
Melo has had minor success but STILL sells less than AI. SO I gues sthe millions who buy his hsoes are out of touch as well. becaus eof course, you somehow are the guru of deciding what's fashionable and what isn't.
The jersey argument is a laugh because well, how many jersey's does melo sell? That's right LESS THAN the same guy you said it didn't matter.
Yes Nuggets have good colors but before AI got to town, even that wasn't enough to just buy heaps of it. ANd then you simply attribute his sales to hip hop rather than lay people. Funny, does the same apply to Lebron, KG and Kobe, or do they have REAL fans? I am just curious.
then you talk about a random sampling, I think you would be surprised. Many would say he is in the top 10, although being in Denver has thwarted his exposure. It is all about exposure my friend which the NBA NEVER stops giving Lebron and Kobe exposure and they never stop TELLING you that these guys are the best.
But don't let that fool you, people still know who he is and if he goes into any arena with he guys you mentioned, he will ALWAYS get the LOUDEST applause.
Many AI fans that really don't watch basketball but like him, thought that he was no longer playing. You can't vote for a guy you thought had just retired.
If the league was busy faulting him to the nation like they do Kobe and Lebron or even if he played in a larger market, his name would come up MORE.
well then I guess AI should just concede that he is no longer relevant then huh?
So because you don't wear Reeboks that means anyone who does is out of touch huh? R U kididng me. kobe's shoes don't sell, neither do lebrons really. Wanna know how I know, because everytime Lebron gets a hangnail, someone writes an article about it and the fact that his shoes are ugly.
Melo has had minor success but STILL sells less than AI. SO I gues sthe millions who buy his hsoes are out of touch as well. becaus eof course, you somehow are the guru of deciding what's fashionable and what isn't.
The jersey argument is a laugh because well, how many jersey's does melo sell? That's right LESS THAN the same guy you said it didn't matter.
Yes Nuggets have good colors but before AI got to town, even that wasn't enough to just buy heaps of it. ANd then you simply attribute his sales to hip hop rather than lay people. Funny, does the same apply to Lebron, KG and Kobe, or do they have REAL fans? I am just curious.
then you talk about a random sampling, I think you would be surprised. Many would say he is in the top 10, although being in Denver has thwarted his exposure. It is all about exposure my friend which the NBA NEVER stops giving Lebron and Kobe exposure and they never stop TELLING you that these guys are the best.
But don't let that fool you, people still know who he is and if he goes into any arena with he guys you mentioned, he will ALWAYS get the LOUDEST applause.
Many AI fans that really don't watch basketball but like him, thought that he was no longer playing. You can't vote for a guy you thought had just retired.
If the league was busy faulting him to the nation like they do Kobe and Lebron or even if he played in a larger market, his name would come up MORE.
by Anonymous on Aug 12, 2008 9:26 AM MDT reply actions
@ Chillz
I agree with your arguments.
I hate when people say their games don't mesh. How can a guy who likes to slash and a guy who like 15 footers not have games that mesh?
AI is a drive kick out guard. Run a freaking pick and roll why don't you?
I want to try this thing one more year. After all it couldn't hurt anything. Then Ai can walk.
One surging theory is him returning to the Sixers now that they have a team that is ironically built for his skill sets
I wouldn't be surprised if this pops up near the trade deadline and then next summer
I agree with your arguments.
I hate when people say their games don't mesh. How can a guy who likes to slash and a guy who like 15 footers not have games that mesh?
AI is a drive kick out guard. Run a freaking pick and roll why don't you?
I want to try this thing one more year. After all it couldn't hurt anything. Then Ai can walk.
One surging theory is him returning to the Sixers now that they have a team that is ironically built for his skill sets
I wouldn't be surprised if this pops up near the trade deadline and then next summer
by Anonymous on Aug 12, 2008 9:30 AM MDT reply actions
AI to Philly won't happen this year 4 sure. They don't have the peices to aquire him and i'm sure the'd like to see how the sixers do first. Ai could sign with them after the season if Denver doesn't resign him. I can see AI ending up in Denver, Philly, Or Overseas... Nobody's gonna really have money and AI is the Biggest NBA star internationaly since MJ. Well in 2004 he was. He didn't get press then and he doesn't get it now, so most would assume Kobe or Lebron was...
by chillz on Aug 12, 2008 11:25 AM MDT reply actions
@ rauf
I am the original anonymous that addressed your comment and now will address your reply...
"With that said, I think you're overstating Iverson's popularity circa 2008. Find a random sampling of people anywhere in the USA and ask tem to name the best players in the league and I'd be surprised if A.I. is one of the first ten names mentioned, whereas NBC hit the streets of Beijing a few nights ago and A.I. was the third name mentioned (after Lebron and Kobe) by young Chinese basketball fans".
^^ Thats funny, considering whenever I see polls on the internet with fans asking who their top 10 players are Iversons name comes up frequently (and if not, its the top 15). Yahoo just named Iverson in the top ten. Hell Carmelo isn't even named in the top twenty by a lot of fans at this point and here some of you are questioning Iversons popularity. I find it funny that no one was really watching the Nuggets before he came (well except long time Nuggets fans like my dad ofcourse) and all of a sudden the Nuggets are selling out arenas when they go out on the road once Iverson came. It wasn't untill Carmelo came that the people started paying a little attention and it wasn't untill Iverson came that the world started paying attention. So I think you are underestemating a lot and may want to think about getting your facts strait before addressing this issue.
"As for his shoe contract as a measure of popularity, find me anyone who has bought a pair of Reeboks in the last five years and I'll show you a person tragically out of touch. Jersey sales, on a different note, don't always connote a player's popularity within the context of the sport they play. A.I. has a certain amount of cache in hip-hop culture, whereas the Nuggets color scheme pops, giving his jersey countless sales to people who haven't actually watched a basketball game in years.
I appreciate your love for A.I., but it needs to be tempered by rational responses to simple statements".
^^Where do you live where people don't wear reeboks? LOL!! Please get a grip. And like I said Iverson has a LIFETIME contract with them, so all you are saying is irrelevent. You talk about Iverson selling jerseys for the Nuggets because of the color scheme? The guy has been selling the most jerseys for the past ten years next to MJ and Kobe (go check the data before you talk). The Nuggets colors aren't even as suitable for your every day jersey wearing person as the Sixer colors were, so what are you even talking about? If anything, him being in Denver has not helped him in his marketing, because of how out of touch people are as opposed to him being in a major market like Philly, New York or L.A. I appreciate your supposed hate or maybe uneducation of Iverson, but maybe you should go check the poles and facts before you come on here with nonsense.
I am the original anonymous that addressed your comment and now will address your reply...
"With that said, I think you're overstating Iverson's popularity circa 2008. Find a random sampling of people anywhere in the USA and ask tem to name the best players in the league and I'd be surprised if A.I. is one of the first ten names mentioned, whereas NBC hit the streets of Beijing a few nights ago and A.I. was the third name mentioned (after Lebron and Kobe) by young Chinese basketball fans".
^^ Thats funny, considering whenever I see polls on the internet with fans asking who their top 10 players are Iversons name comes up frequently (and if not, its the top 15). Yahoo just named Iverson in the top ten. Hell Carmelo isn't even named in the top twenty by a lot of fans at this point and here some of you are questioning Iversons popularity. I find it funny that no one was really watching the Nuggets before he came (well except long time Nuggets fans like my dad ofcourse) and all of a sudden the Nuggets are selling out arenas when they go out on the road once Iverson came. It wasn't untill Carmelo came that the people started paying a little attention and it wasn't untill Iverson came that the world started paying attention. So I think you are underestemating a lot and may want to think about getting your facts strait before addressing this issue.
"As for his shoe contract as a measure of popularity, find me anyone who has bought a pair of Reeboks in the last five years and I'll show you a person tragically out of touch. Jersey sales, on a different note, don't always connote a player's popularity within the context of the sport they play. A.I. has a certain amount of cache in hip-hop culture, whereas the Nuggets color scheme pops, giving his jersey countless sales to people who haven't actually watched a basketball game in years.
I appreciate your love for A.I., but it needs to be tempered by rational responses to simple statements".
^^Where do you live where people don't wear reeboks? LOL!! Please get a grip. And like I said Iverson has a LIFETIME contract with them, so all you are saying is irrelevent. You talk about Iverson selling jerseys for the Nuggets because of the color scheme? The guy has been selling the most jerseys for the past ten years next to MJ and Kobe (go check the data before you talk). The Nuggets colors aren't even as suitable for your every day jersey wearing person as the Sixer colors were, so what are you even talking about? If anything, him being in Denver has not helped him in his marketing, because of how out of touch people are as opposed to him being in a major market like Philly, New York or L.A. I appreciate your supposed hate or maybe uneducation of Iverson, but maybe you should go check the poles and facts before you come on here with nonsense.
by Anonymous on Aug 12, 2008 5:36 PM MDT reply actions
Bottom line is, the Nuggets were not ready when they made the trade for Iverson. They were not just one piece away from contending and there for had no business trading for him if they did not have a plan in place. Nor could they afford Iverson when they traded for him. The FO were ametures in this. I'm sorry Iverson got caught up in it. I often see fans on here talk about how to build a contending team and how Iverson can not fit into one (although he already has been on them), but how the hell would any one of them know how to build a team...you have been cheering for a Nuggets team that hasn't gotten out of the first round in god knows how long. So how would you even know how to build one? A team that can barely win one game in the playoffs is not a team that is ready to take the next step.
Some long time Nuggets fans have already admitted to this...why cant some of you just admit your team was not ready for Iverson or Kobe or Lebron or whatever other star player there is to add onto your team. You think if the Nuggets aquired KG instead of Iverson that the Nuggets would be contending? Hell no. Why? Because they were not ready. The Celtics were ready to contend when they got KG and Ray Allen, along with adding all the other proper pieces around their star players. The Lakers were ready and had a plan when they traded for Pau, they knew he was the missing piece for their triangle. They also have a Coach with commen sense. I bet you if you were to place Iverson on the Lakers, Phil Jackson would know what to do with him and how to fit him in that team.
Basically what the Nuggets did was go out on a wish and a prayer and traded away a piece they needed to play with Iverson (a tall PG) for Iverson...didn't address the issue properly, wanted everyone to sit back and wait for Carmelo to become some type of leader (which its more then evident at this point that he isn't)...watched a Coach loose his team and basically sat back and watched the sparks fly. For all the fans that are mad at Iverson...maybe next time your franchise shouldn't go out and make a trade for major market players who are bigger stars and more dominant then your already supposed "franchise player" when they don't have a plan in place, then get mad at the incomming star player for being who they are. And also, maybe some of you need to learn or watch other teams on how to build REAL contenders..because the Nuggets were PRETENDERS from the start before they even traded for Iverson. I read a lot of garbage in here talking about Iversons contending teams, but what about Carmelo? Who has not even been able to help his team win more then 1 game in the playoffs and was by far the most dissappointing "star" player in that series...the guy hasn't even had a breakout playoff game yet and here some of you are talking about Iverson? Hilarious. Worry about Carmelo, because he is the one that is looking like a bust at this point, Iverson is already going to the H.O.F., he's already a proven player so quit questioning him.
Some long time Nuggets fans have already admitted to this...why cant some of you just admit your team was not ready for Iverson or Kobe or Lebron or whatever other star player there is to add onto your team. You think if the Nuggets aquired KG instead of Iverson that the Nuggets would be contending? Hell no. Why? Because they were not ready. The Celtics were ready to contend when they got KG and Ray Allen, along with adding all the other proper pieces around their star players. The Lakers were ready and had a plan when they traded for Pau, they knew he was the missing piece for their triangle. They also have a Coach with commen sense. I bet you if you were to place Iverson on the Lakers, Phil Jackson would know what to do with him and how to fit him in that team.
Basically what the Nuggets did was go out on a wish and a prayer and traded away a piece they needed to play with Iverson (a tall PG) for Iverson...didn't address the issue properly, wanted everyone to sit back and wait for Carmelo to become some type of leader (which its more then evident at this point that he isn't)...watched a Coach loose his team and basically sat back and watched the sparks fly. For all the fans that are mad at Iverson...maybe next time your franchise shouldn't go out and make a trade for major market players who are bigger stars and more dominant then your already supposed "franchise player" when they don't have a plan in place, then get mad at the incomming star player for being who they are. And also, maybe some of you need to learn or watch other teams on how to build REAL contenders..because the Nuggets were PRETENDERS from the start before they even traded for Iverson. I read a lot of garbage in here talking about Iversons contending teams, but what about Carmelo? Who has not even been able to help his team win more then 1 game in the playoffs and was by far the most dissappointing "star" player in that series...the guy hasn't even had a breakout playoff game yet and here some of you are talking about Iverson? Hilarious. Worry about Carmelo, because he is the one that is looking like a bust at this point, Iverson is already going to the H.O.F., he's already a proven player so quit questioning him.
by Anonymous on Aug 12, 2008 6:01 PM MDT reply actions
On a related note, I expect career numbers out of Kenyon Martin. If Amare Stoudamire is any indication, the first year back from knee surgery is just a feeler year.
by Nick on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM MDT reply actions
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