The Nuggets Offseason: Allen Iverson...
by Andrew Feinstein on Jun 3, 2008 1:12 AM MDT
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With all of the attention paid to the New York media-concocted Carmelo Anthony-to-the-Nets-trade and the zillion nostalgia pieces being written about the upcoming Lakers/Celtics NBA Finals matchup, the fate of Nuggets' superstar Allen Iverson has gotten very little attention (except for the Rocky Mountain News' Chris Tomasson's detailed account of Iverson's contract situation on Friday).The Situation: Iverson has one year remaining on his contract that will pay him almost $22 million in 2008-09, but he has the right to opt-out of the deal before June 20th and become an unrestricted free agent. According to Tomasson, the Nuggets' brass has already been discussing a contract renewal with Iverson's representatives for a three-year deal. To pull this off, Iverson would have to formally opt-out of his current contract, and then re-sign with the Nuggets for three years at a lower annual rate. But at 33 years old (five days from now), how much will Iverson be able to command from Denver, a team already well over the NBA's luxury tax limit?
The Good: As everyone reading this blog knows, Iverson is an absolute warrior on the court. At 32 years old in 2007-08, he played in all 82 games and led the NBA in minutes per game while regularly taking a pounding on the court. Overcoming his advanced age for a grossly undersized shooting guard and a broken bone in his non-shooting hand, Iverson finished third in scoring, ninth in assists (ahead of Andre Miller) and fourth in steals. In addition, Iverson had his second best career performances in turnovers-per-game and field goal percentage, meaning he's reigned in his game quite a bit for the Nuggets and is playing smarter and more under control.Furthermore, known for having problems with coaches and the law during his tenure in Philadelphia, Iverson has been a model citizen in Denver and by all accounts is liked by teammates and wants to retire as a Nugget. If ever one needed proof of "the new Iverson," just look at the way he handled coach George Karl's (inexcusable) benching of him in Game 3 of the playoffs against the Lakers. Even though he admitted being frustrated by the decision, Iverson refused to throw his coach under the bus and even went as far as to say he'll do whatever the coach asks of him.
The Bad: At 5'11" (tops) and a scoring machine (Iverson is third all time in scoring average), Iverson is a tough player to build around. His most successful Philadelphia team - the 2000-01 squad that he carried to the NBA Finals - featured decent sized guards who primarily played defense (Aaron McKie and Eric Snow) to go along with a consortium of defense-first role players (Dikembe Mutombo, Tyrone Hill and George Lynch). In other words, the complete opposite of the Nuggets.One problem I've noticed with Iverson - and this is just my view from the cheap seats - is that he's not a transformative, vocal leader a la Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Chris Paul or Baron Davis. I don't know if he's trying to defer to Carmelo Anthony, or just fit in since he's new to Denver, or if it's just not in his nature anymore, but he doesn't seem to impose his will on his teammates (and frankly, opponents) like he did in Philadelphia. As a 76er, Iverson would just take over games and carry his team if need be. In Denver, he seems to go about his job with tremendous effort and yet do so quietly at the same time, allowing his teammates to be self-accountable. This was especially apparent during the playoff sweep against the Lakers in which Iverson appeared to just go through the motions while his Nuggets teammates, especially Anthony, imploded around him.
And, of course, there's the elephant in the room: the Anthony/Iverson situation. I think they genuinely like each other, but it's inarguable that Iverson's arrival (precipitated by Anthony foolishly punching Mardy Collins during the Madison Square Garden Melee in 2006) has stunted Anthony's growth. Anthony has taken a lot of heat - justifiably - on this blog and elsewhere in Nuggets Nation - but we quickly forget how good he was (and how in-shape he was) before the brawl and how well he plays within a system that suits him (a la Team USA). And regardless of what many of this blog's readers have said, Anthony will remain just as trade-able at 25 as he is now at 24 should he disappoint us further in the 2008-09 postseason (assuming the Nuggets get there).
Unfortunately for Iverson and us Nuggets' fans, this current crop of Nuggets players is desperate for veteran leadership and creative coaching to make the Anthony/Iverson duo as lethal as possible...and they aren't getting much of either right now.
The Verdict: Traded to Denver for Andre Miller essentially, the Nuggets have gone from an under performing yet talented team with an over-dribbling point guard to an under performing yet talented team with an over-dribbling shooting guard who might just be the third best shooting guard of all time (behind only Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Jerry West perhaps). The Nuggets are in a bit of a tricky spot with Iverson. As the News' Tomasson points out in his summary of the contract situation, even if Iverson takes a pay cut - say, by $7 million or so - and asks for $15 million per season for the next three seasons, that still puts the Nuggets well over the luxury tax threshold limiting their future flexibility. By not re-upping Iverson now, the Nuggets could see how the season plays out and use the superstar guard as trade bait since he puts asses in the seats to go along with what would be a $22 million expiring contract. The problem with the latter route is that the Nuggets would risk insulting Iverson (not that paying someone $22 million to play basketball should be an insult, but this is the NBA) and, unlike Davis and others in the league, Iverson doesn't need to be in a contract year as incentive to appear in every single game...and play hard while doing so.
The bottom line for me is this: I don't want the Nuggets to lose Iverson but I don't want them to waste his last two good years either by overpaying him (meaning the team couldn't surround him with quality role players like he had in Philadelphia). By bringing head coach George Karl back, the Nuggets are already wasting one more season of Iverson's services. But if the Nuggets can get Iverson to sign for something in the $14 million per season range, I say do it.
However, if Iverson and his reps decide to hardball the Nuggets and demand something like $18 million per season, I say let him enter the 2008-09 season as an unrestricted-free-agent-to-be and see what happens. If the season turns out to be a disappointment, the Nuggets could trade Iverson by the All-Star break for a few role players, fire Karl at season's end, and build the team around the younger players like Anthony (24), J.R. Smith (23) and Nene (25). It's too bad Iverson is almost 33 years old, because I'd take a younger Iverson over any of those aforementioned guys any day of the week.
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We have to trade Iverson either now or on next february. At least get some role players and draft picks of exchange. If it were not possible --hard to believe--, just let him walk.
We are not a better team with Iverson. See our record before and after Iverson and it is essentially the same. If something, he has hindered our best player's progression, that is, Carmelo Anthony.
We are not a better team with Iverson. See our record before and after Iverson and it is essentially the same. If something, he has hindered our best player's progression, that is, Carmelo Anthony.
by catalan on Jun 3, 2008 2:00 AM MDT reply actions
The painful truth is, the Nugs can't continue to survive with two terrible perimeter defensive players like Melo and AI. If we really want to build this team around Melo, we need a good point guard, and some spot up shooters, all of whom need to play some at least decent defense.
The thing that is really distressing, is JR is a really good fit with Melo on the offensive end, but he's awful on defense, so if we build around those two, we're right back where we started.
I wish I had better news, but JR is a lesser version of AI. Incredible scorer in the making, but also a poor on ball defender who chases after steals in the passing zones.
The thing that is really distressing, is JR is a really good fit with Melo on the offensive end, but he's awful on defense, so if we build around those two, we're right back where we started.
I wish I had better news, but JR is a lesser version of AI. Incredible scorer in the making, but also a poor on ball defender who chases after steals in the passing zones.
by Robin Z on Jun 3, 2008 9:16 AM MDT reply actions
Since I know a great portion of the people who will comment on this post will say to trade Iverson, I'm going to try to make this simple for everyone to understand. First of all, look at this year. Look at the game the Nuggets played against the Warriors in Golden State. Iverson ACTUALLY became the leader and led the Nuggets back from a 37-21 deficit. He displayed all the scoring techniques that made him one of the greatest PLAYERS in NBA history. Had Iverson decided to not have shown up, the Nuggets wouldn't even had made the playoffs. I don't care how old Iverson is. He's still one of the greatest scorers in NBA history, and he's still one of the most strongest, passionate players I have ever seen play the game. The reason he doesn't vocally lead the team is because when he was traded to Denver, he told Carmelo Anthony that it was his team. That he had been the leader for 10+ years in Philadelphia, and that it was Anthony's time to lead. Okay, I disagree with this 100% now, because this post-season was a meltdown. That was the first time any Iverson team had been swept. Even if his 76ers were outmatched in previous playoff series, he at least won ONE game. Look at the very first game in the 2001 NBA finals. Everyone expected the 76ers to get swept by the Lakers, but he won the game with 48 points, and 7 straight in the end to help the 76ers win. It's not really Anthony that has to step up for this team, it's Iverson. Iverson needs to realize that this team cannot go anywhere, unless he LEADS them there. He hasn't slown down a bit, and you can ask just about anyone in the NBA. I know I might be biased because he's been my favorite player ever since he was drafted, but the truth is, the Nuggets need him. Hopefully, both the Nuggets organization and Iverson's people can come to a contract agreement that will satisfy both parties, and hopefully, Iverson will be starting alongside Anthony next season.
by nataly on Jun 3, 2008 9:38 AM MDT reply actions
There's nothin wrong with bringing back AI and Melo and JR next year. JR is still young enough to continue to play the exact same role (a role that's very much needed - aka a scoring threat off the bench).
I say bring back AI, Melo, JR and Camby and get a defensive minded ball distributing PG, and a defensive minded PF and all the sudden, I think we look pretty balanced.
Let's not dig too deeply into the roster of this team... don't forget, we're all here for one underlying reason. We all believe the coaching to be the major deficiency of this team don't we?
I like to think that we had one of the top 3 starting 5's last year and a decent bench, and that it was a travesty how they performed, due mostly to the ineptitude of the coaching and playcalling.
Let's not get overboard with revamping this roster please.
I say bring back AI, Melo, JR and Camby and get a defensive minded ball distributing PG, and a defensive minded PF and all the sudden, I think we look pretty balanced.
Let's not dig too deeply into the roster of this team... don't forget, we're all here for one underlying reason. We all believe the coaching to be the major deficiency of this team don't we?
I like to think that we had one of the top 3 starting 5's last year and a decent bench, and that it was a travesty how they performed, due mostly to the ineptitude of the coaching and playcalling.
Let's not get overboard with revamping this roster please.
by Eric on Jun 3, 2008 10:27 AM MDT reply actions
The thing about Iverson is that he's an extraordinary talent, but he requires the team to make careful adjustments to fit him into a system.
Last year, the Nuggets had a backcourt with two small, traditional point guards (Atkins and Carter) and Iverson. This creates a defensive liability against almost every team in the league, most notably LA, where one of those two guys was responsible for guarding either Kobe or Radmanovic, with predictably disastrous results. The only way to have a successful backcourt with Iverson is to match him with a strong, defensive-minded, pass-first guard. The only person who matches that description for the Nuggets is Diawara, but he's one of the most offensively inept players in the league. In sum, if the Nuggets wanted to commit to Iverson, they'd have to totally readjust their personnel, but if they commit to Iverson, they won't have any financial flexibility to do so. I love Iverson's heart and desire to win, and I prefer watching him over any of the other current Nuggets, but if the Nuggets resign him to a longer deal, they can expect to be a lottery team for as long as the deal lasts.
Last year, the Nuggets had a backcourt with two small, traditional point guards (Atkins and Carter) and Iverson. This creates a defensive liability against almost every team in the league, most notably LA, where one of those two guys was responsible for guarding either Kobe or Radmanovic, with predictably disastrous results. The only way to have a successful backcourt with Iverson is to match him with a strong, defensive-minded, pass-first guard. The only person who matches that description for the Nuggets is Diawara, but he's one of the most offensively inept players in the league. In sum, if the Nuggets wanted to commit to Iverson, they'd have to totally readjust their personnel, but if they commit to Iverson, they won't have any financial flexibility to do so. I love Iverson's heart and desire to win, and I prefer watching him over any of the other current Nuggets, but if the Nuggets resign him to a longer deal, they can expect to be a lottery team for as long as the deal lasts.
by Kieran on Jun 3, 2008 11:15 AM MDT reply actions
Why is iverson is the one of the.
best.
he is 33 and have better points than chris paul chris bosh amare stoudemaire rank 5 to be exact more steals than joe johnson paul pierce manu ginoboli
rank 18 in steals to be exact
best.
he is 33 and have better points than chris paul chris bosh amare stoudemaire rank 5 to be exact more steals than joe johnson paul pierce manu ginoboli
rank 18 in steals to be exact
by Anonymous on Jun 3, 2008 11:55 AM MDT reply actions
oh i forgot asts better than dwade andre miller billups alston bibby hinrich number 11 in asts to be exact
by Anonymous on Jun 3, 2008 11:59 AM MDT reply actions
bottom-line: AI is one of the best. Even if he is getting older he still has more heart and capability than 99% of the league. Guess what, he's short too, but those are just physical issues that his heart seems to always overcome.
3rd in Scoring, 9th in assists and 4th in steals in the whole league, period. This has been his most efficient year too. We all know that he is still deferring to Melo but it looks like Melo isn't ready yet. Any other coach would be screaming at his star forward if he stopped being agressive and settled on jump shots and didn't defend.
If the Nuggs had good coaching like Phil Jackson we would have done better.
Put AI on Point and JR Smith at shooting guard.
Also, is there any way can get Billups and/or Jason Maxiell cuz that would be super.
=D
3rd in Scoring, 9th in assists and 4th in steals in the whole league, period. This has been his most efficient year too. We all know that he is still deferring to Melo but it looks like Melo isn't ready yet. Any other coach would be screaming at his star forward if he stopped being agressive and settled on jump shots and didn't defend.
If the Nuggs had good coaching like Phil Jackson we would have done better.
Put AI on Point and JR Smith at shooting guard.
Also, is there any way can get Billups and/or Jason Maxiell cuz that would be super.
=D
by NoYPi on Jun 3, 2008 4:58 PM MDT reply actions
It is all related to coaching in the end. We can trade for whoever and get rid of whoever, but in the end, with GK as our coach, we won't make it out of the first round. Again, how many championships has GK won in his tenure in the NBA? Not that it is easy to win a championship, but he has had the talent on many different teams to do great things, including this years nuggets roster. He just lacks the ability to develop offensive/defensive schemes that will utilize the talent he has.
by Anonymous on Jun 3, 2008 5:10 PM MDT reply actions
Sup everybody!
Well Nataly had the best post so far but I'm gonna throw my hat into the mix.
Iverson is not a vocal leader. He leads by example and good character guy pick up on this. Thats why JR and many of the bench guys stepped up this year and played very hard. The problem is 2 things.. No.1 the Nuggets named 3 captains. AI, Camby and Melo... All three are completely different and go in separate directions. So who do they all follow? they follow themselves. It fragments the team. No. 2 As Nataly said, Iverson told Melo this was HIS team.
Thru-out Iversons career, people have always harped on how hard it is to build around Iverson. Its simply not true. Yes Iverson is unique for his size and abilities but the only reason it seems hard is because NOBODY wants him as their Point Guard. This is were the problem lays!
You can build a successful team around AI 2 ways. The defensive way or the athletic way. The first way is evident by the 5 years Larry Brown had the sixers in the playoffs. The 00/01 team was so good because it had a good balance. They started the season 44-14 and then traded for Mutombo. The other way was placing AI at the PG like Jim Obrian did. And surround him with defense and Scoring. Had that team had an athletic Power Forward like Kenyon Martin it would have been extremely good. Dispite that team have 2 rookies and an undersized PF in the starting lineup, they played very well together.
The problem with the nuggets is George Karl would rather play AI at the 2 when at this stage of his career he should be at the 1. This would allow a taller guard to play next to AI, and make the team better defensively.
As far as AI stunting Melo's growth... I don't agree with that. AI doesn't tell Meo to stand outside and take jumpers all game. He does that himself. Also his coach doesn't make adjustments to get him or his partner AI open sometimes for easy baskets. GK doesn't allow them to play off each other at all. He basically keeps them at opposing sides of the floor on offense allowing teams to focus in on melo so he can turn and shoot against 3 defenders. Melo is the one that never passes out of the double and triple team! Its obvious Melo doesn't enjoy playing for Karl.
BTW Catalan I hope you realize 2 things... No.1 Your wrong they have won more with AI... No. 2, Guards don't make teams better... Big men do! Just look at the Lakers and the Celtics! You pick up 2 great bigs and its a chance at the finals! Guards and small players make you better but, its a big mans sport so they make the most difference.
Well Nataly had the best post so far but I'm gonna throw my hat into the mix.
Iverson is not a vocal leader. He leads by example and good character guy pick up on this. Thats why JR and many of the bench guys stepped up this year and played very hard. The problem is 2 things.. No.1 the Nuggets named 3 captains. AI, Camby and Melo... All three are completely different and go in separate directions. So who do they all follow? they follow themselves. It fragments the team. No. 2 As Nataly said, Iverson told Melo this was HIS team.
Thru-out Iversons career, people have always harped on how hard it is to build around Iverson. Its simply not true. Yes Iverson is unique for his size and abilities but the only reason it seems hard is because NOBODY wants him as their Point Guard. This is were the problem lays!
You can build a successful team around AI 2 ways. The defensive way or the athletic way. The first way is evident by the 5 years Larry Brown had the sixers in the playoffs. The 00/01 team was so good because it had a good balance. They started the season 44-14 and then traded for Mutombo. The other way was placing AI at the PG like Jim Obrian did. And surround him with defense and Scoring. Had that team had an athletic Power Forward like Kenyon Martin it would have been extremely good. Dispite that team have 2 rookies and an undersized PF in the starting lineup, they played very well together.
The problem with the nuggets is George Karl would rather play AI at the 2 when at this stage of his career he should be at the 1. This would allow a taller guard to play next to AI, and make the team better defensively.
As far as AI stunting Melo's growth... I don't agree with that. AI doesn't tell Meo to stand outside and take jumpers all game. He does that himself. Also his coach doesn't make adjustments to get him or his partner AI open sometimes for easy baskets. GK doesn't allow them to play off each other at all. He basically keeps them at opposing sides of the floor on offense allowing teams to focus in on melo so he can turn and shoot against 3 defenders. Melo is the one that never passes out of the double and triple team! Its obvious Melo doesn't enjoy playing for Karl.
BTW Catalan I hope you realize 2 things... No.1 Your wrong they have won more with AI... No. 2, Guards don't make teams better... Big men do! Just look at the Lakers and the Celtics! You pick up 2 great bigs and its a chance at the finals! Guards and small players make you better but, its a big mans sport so they make the most difference.
by chillz on Jun 3, 2008 5:11 PM MDT reply actions
'As far as AI stunting Melo's growth... I don't agree with that. AI doesn't tell Meo to stand outside and take jumpers all game. He does that himself. Also his coach doesn't make adjustments to get him or his partner AI open sometimes for easy baskets."
-- Very very very very very Good Point.
-- Very very very very very Good Point.
by rex on Jun 3, 2008 8:57 PM MDT reply actions
I am amazed that Avery Johnson isn't at the top of any other teams list right now. The Pistons and Bulls are filling coaching roles with assistants. Johnson is the firecracker that the Nuggets need. Young players need to get fired up and Karl has only led superstars with internal motivation to conference finals. We need a fire lit under everyone and Johnson is the ticket. Can I start a slow chant now?? Avery....Johnson...Avery..Johnson!
by DJsarcazm on Jun 3, 2008 10:16 PM MDT reply actions
nataly has a good point... we only have two (good) seasons of AI left. why aren't we making the most of what he can do for us for the next two years??? as much as this is melo's team.... MAKE IT iverson's team. he has more experience than melo and has been around the NBA and the world MUCH longer than melo has. and look at what melo is doing. let AI take the leadership role. that's what i suggest. when ai is out of game (much respect to the man), then melo can take over... but as much as melo and ai should be best friends and teamates... ai should be melo's mentor. on AND off the court....
by andrew fisher on Jun 4, 2008 12:46 AM MDT reply actions
My point is that Iverson is at best a scape goat. The coach is much more important than people think. People who have not had a bad coach at any level tend to side with players. The coach dictates the attitude of the team. This may not seem important to the casual observer, but, as a player, if you feel that every time you slack, even a bit on defense, you will have you answer to your coach; and ultimately your team, it changes your approach and work-ethic. I have seen the difference a coach can make from a 1 win team to a state champion at the high school level. This is different I know but translates well to the problems the nuggets have in unproven and unmotivated players. Hart is lacking and I think that is most gained by a new man yelling from the sideline.
by DJsarcazm on Jun 4, 2008 1:38 AM MDT reply actions
we need a defensive minded PF ??? what do you think kmart is? he fits that role perfectly..
i don't know if yall rememebr that gime IN toronto against the raptors... was a close game. mostly cos of kenyon smothering chris bosh defensively. he had 2 big steals in the last 2 mins of the game and bosh (if memory serves me correctly) went scoreless in the 4th.
the only liability to k-mart's game besides his jump shot is his contract... but aint nothin we can do bout that now... let him play... his injuries (i hope) are a thing of the past
i don't know if yall rememebr that gime IN toronto against the raptors... was a close game. mostly cos of kenyon smothering chris bosh defensively. he had 2 big steals in the last 2 mins of the game and bosh (if memory serves me correctly) went scoreless in the 4th.
the only liability to k-mart's game besides his jump shot is his contract... but aint nothin we can do bout that now... let him play... his injuries (i hope) are a thing of the past
by Anonymous on Jun 4, 2008 5:23 AM MDT reply actions
K-Mart is a great defender... against Forwards. Fact that he had to guard Kobe was ridiculous. You can't put a big on a SG who's way quicker, and not even that much shorter than K-Mart (read: still able to get good looks on his jump shot). And the void left on the guys like Odom because K-Mart was on Kobe had me fuming like you wouldn't believe. The best defender option for Kobe on last seasons roster would have been Yakuba, but Karl never gave the guy enough minutes in the regular season to be comfortable with him in the playoffs... again, bad coaching.
I like the idea of Avery Johnson. We do need someone with a feel for today's players, and we do need a yeller to rile them up. Karl has neither attribute.
I still don't understand why Andrew changed the name of this site. Nothing has changed coaching-wise. We are where we are because of a passive coach without a clue on how to lead a team... that still needs to change IMO.
I like the idea of Avery Johnson. We do need someone with a feel for today's players, and we do need a yeller to rile them up. Karl has neither attribute.
I still don't understand why Andrew changed the name of this site. Nothing has changed coaching-wise. We are where we are because of a passive coach without a clue on how to lead a team... that still needs to change IMO.
by Eric on Jun 4, 2008 8:24 AM MDT reply actions
Agreed, Fire George Karl and bring in Avery Johnson. Light a fire under our team next season!
by Anonymous on Jun 4, 2008 8:42 AM MDT reply actions
Andrew,
When you tackle Kenyon Martin in your off-season assessments, don't forget the ironic and depressing bit of trivia:
Following Kenyon's meltdown in the playoffs against the Clippers, the Nuggets tried to trade him, but as an article you've linked to multiple times stated, all they were offered for him was Darius Miles.
Well....
We all know what happened there. Darius Miles' injuries have been ruled "career-ending" by the NBA, thus negating the Blazers' obligation to his salary and freeing up their cap space.
If the Nugs had unloaded K-Mart for Miles, his albatross salary would be gone, gone, gone!
Hindsight is always 20/20.
When you tackle Kenyon Martin in your off-season assessments, don't forget the ironic and depressing bit of trivia:
Following Kenyon's meltdown in the playoffs against the Clippers, the Nuggets tried to trade him, but as an article you've linked to multiple times stated, all they were offered for him was Darius Miles.
Well....
We all know what happened there. Darius Miles' injuries have been ruled "career-ending" by the NBA, thus negating the Blazers' obligation to his salary and freeing up their cap space.
If the Nugs had unloaded K-Mart for Miles, his albatross salary would be gone, gone, gone!
Hindsight is always 20/20.
by Anonymous on Jun 4, 2008 11:44 AM MDT reply actions
Not sure about AJ, but I agree with the last post. Everyone is talking about acquiring more defense-first, role players to balance out the Nuggets current team.
From what I gathered this season, it wasn't so much the individual player, but the defensive scheme. Players were more often out of position and confused when playing any of the high-caliber NBA teams. That's coaching, plain and simple. Coaching ensures defense fundamentals to be almost second nature. Trading or acquiring a "Ron Artest" will do much less than most think in a crappy defense scheme.
Even if you believe that it's more due to individual play, why do we need to trade or add more defensive-minded players? Why is it such a stretch for a coach to help our supposed offensive-minded players improve on their defensive fundamentals in the off season? Players add game all the time. I used to cringe every time Kleiza would try and fumble his way to the hole, which ultimately ended in him being called for a charge. But, he must have worked on his inside game because in the latter part of the season, I kept yelling from "Nay." to "Yay!" Hard work from current players and a coach with some brass to be fully accountable is what it's going to take to get past the first round. Karl, don't even let anyone shoot a basket for a month! Work on defense!
From what I gathered this season, it wasn't so much the individual player, but the defensive scheme. Players were more often out of position and confused when playing any of the high-caliber NBA teams. That's coaching, plain and simple. Coaching ensures defense fundamentals to be almost second nature. Trading or acquiring a "Ron Artest" will do much less than most think in a crappy defense scheme.
Even if you believe that it's more due to individual play, why do we need to trade or add more defensive-minded players? Why is it such a stretch for a coach to help our supposed offensive-minded players improve on their defensive fundamentals in the off season? Players add game all the time. I used to cringe every time Kleiza would try and fumble his way to the hole, which ultimately ended in him being called for a charge. But, he must have worked on his inside game because in the latter part of the season, I kept yelling from "Nay." to "Yay!" Hard work from current players and a coach with some brass to be fully accountable is what it's going to take to get past the first round. Karl, don't even let anyone shoot a basket for a month! Work on defense!
by viracocha303 on Jun 4, 2008 12:04 PM MDT reply actions
Just wanted to make some comments to the comments-
an anonymous comment said- "how many championships has GK won in his tenure in the NBA? Not that it is easy to win a championship, but he has had the talent on many different teams"- To win a championship with either the sonics or Bucks karl would have had to beat either the MJ/Pippen Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers, he never had a team talented enough to do that. While the Nugs may be talented enough to compete, I certainly don't think they're as talented as the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Pistons or Suns.
Brendan said- "We need a fire lit under everyone and (Avery)Johnson is the ticket."....Yeah you know he did such a great job with Dirk in the playoffs....
DJSarcazm- "I have seen the difference a coach can make from a 1 win team to a state champion at the high school level. This is different I know but translates well to the problems the nuggets have"- No it doesn't translate, at all. You are talking about high-school boys playing in an incredibly lower talent pool for free vs. Players who are the best, know they are the best, and get paid millions, in most cases more than their coach, to play. Comparing highschool coaching to professional discredits everything you wrote.
Eric- "The best defender option for Kobe on last seasons roster would have been Yakuba"....are you crazy?!!! The best option on Kobe was K-mart, because there was no other option. Why is it when a guy is a lousy player but decent enough at one and only one aspect of the game, which happens to be D, to earn a spot at the end of a bench do you think makes him qualified to defend the best active player in the game. Had Diawara guarded Kobe in the playoffs Kobe would have put up sixty every game and it wouldn't matter how well K-mart defended Odom. Diawara isn't good, he's just not as bad at D, if Bruce Bowen can't cover Kobe do you really think Kube can?
And now I'l finish with my take about the actual post: I cringed at the idea of AI coming to the Thuggets at first, but the guy is class and I was watching when he put up 51 on the lakers this season, it was unreal, he couldn't miss. I think if AI wasn't worried about hurting marshMelo's feelings he would quickly have stepped into being a leader. He's a facotr in every offensive possesion and the guy plays his ass off, he's a consummate professional, who realizes what's important and doesn't spend his time talking about practice! That said, he's a horrible fit with the players we have. You can't start AI and AC and hope to stop anyone on defense, but at the same time you can't start AI and JR and hope for the ball to ever leave the backcourt in the form of a pass. I love AI, he's my favorite nugget next to only the Lithiuanian Liquidator. I just don't see how he fits into our scheme unless somehow the nuggets coaching gets AI to settle for something like 18 pts, 11 asts a season. I don't think AI would do it but i do think that if he did nugs would be playing for a ring and AI would be the MVP.
And finally, we're stuck with George for another year at least, so can we stop suggesting fire him, it's not going to happen and we're just beating a dead horse now. Im not a huge fan of Karl, but I don't hate him either. For me the days of Bzdelik's "ummm give the ball to Melo and hope for the best" strategy are still fresh in my mind
an anonymous comment said- "how many championships has GK won in his tenure in the NBA? Not that it is easy to win a championship, but he has had the talent on many different teams"- To win a championship with either the sonics or Bucks karl would have had to beat either the MJ/Pippen Bulls or Shaq/Kobe Lakers, he never had a team talented enough to do that. While the Nugs may be talented enough to compete, I certainly don't think they're as talented as the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Pistons or Suns.
Brendan said- "We need a fire lit under everyone and (Avery)Johnson is the ticket."....Yeah you know he did such a great job with Dirk in the playoffs....
DJSarcazm- "I have seen the difference a coach can make from a 1 win team to a state champion at the high school level. This is different I know but translates well to the problems the nuggets have"- No it doesn't translate, at all. You are talking about high-school boys playing in an incredibly lower talent pool for free vs. Players who are the best, know they are the best, and get paid millions, in most cases more than their coach, to play. Comparing highschool coaching to professional discredits everything you wrote.
Eric- "The best defender option for Kobe on last seasons roster would have been Yakuba"....are you crazy?!!! The best option on Kobe was K-mart, because there was no other option. Why is it when a guy is a lousy player but decent enough at one and only one aspect of the game, which happens to be D, to earn a spot at the end of a bench do you think makes him qualified to defend the best active player in the game. Had Diawara guarded Kobe in the playoffs Kobe would have put up sixty every game and it wouldn't matter how well K-mart defended Odom. Diawara isn't good, he's just not as bad at D, if Bruce Bowen can't cover Kobe do you really think Kube can?
And now I'l finish with my take about the actual post: I cringed at the idea of AI coming to the Thuggets at first, but the guy is class and I was watching when he put up 51 on the lakers this season, it was unreal, he couldn't miss. I think if AI wasn't worried about hurting marshMelo's feelings he would quickly have stepped into being a leader. He's a facotr in every offensive possesion and the guy plays his ass off, he's a consummate professional, who realizes what's important and doesn't spend his time talking about practice! That said, he's a horrible fit with the players we have. You can't start AI and AC and hope to stop anyone on defense, but at the same time you can't start AI and JR and hope for the ball to ever leave the backcourt in the form of a pass. I love AI, he's my favorite nugget next to only the Lithiuanian Liquidator. I just don't see how he fits into our scheme unless somehow the nuggets coaching gets AI to settle for something like 18 pts, 11 asts a season. I don't think AI would do it but i do think that if he did nugs would be playing for a ring and AI would be the MVP.
And finally, we're stuck with George for another year at least, so can we stop suggesting fire him, it's not going to happen and we're just beating a dead horse now. Im not a huge fan of Karl, but I don't hate him either. For me the days of Bzdelik's "ummm give the ball to Melo and hope for the best" strategy are still fresh in my mind
by Zachm219 on Jun 4, 2008 12:43 PM MDT reply actions
FIRE GEROGE KARL sign AD, trade Marcus Camby,send Anthony Carter back to the NBADL and teach Melo DEFENSE.
by Anonymous on Jun 5, 2008 7:42 PM MDT reply actions
Lets be careful before we say trade AI. AI is the least of the Nuggets problems. If you look at the two best teams in the league right now the Lakers and the Celtics, the one that is recurrent is that they all have superior defensive or offensive schemes. We already know the Nuggets were poor in both areas. Those who watch the Celtics know that outside of KG their team doesn't have superb defensive ability, yet they rank highest in defense ppg.
by j2y2k3 on Jun 7, 2008 1:48 PM MDT reply actions
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